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燒盡公婆照顧父母是我們非常重要的一環。然而現行的政策卻忽視了新住民家庭的特殊狀況, 剝奪了我們聚會和照顧長輩的機會。 因此,與政府重新檢視"},{"start":1967.544,"end":1991.942,"text":"新住民依新政策提供更靈活的依親管道讓我們在臺灣的新住民繼續履行我們傳統肖道美德唯一如此才能真正的成為一個包容多元尊重家庭價值的社會呼應政府跨越國界依親經銷"},{"start":1994.344,"end":2008.7,"text":"呼應政府,跨越國界,一清消道。呼應政府,跨越國界,一清消道。臺灣加油!新住民加油!謝謝大家!好,謝謝麥委員。下一位請林國成委員發言。"},{"start":2032.308,"end":2043.392,"text":"各位我們線上所有的好朋友我們各位官員各位國人同胞昨天看過賴總統的文告我覺得賴總統講的國家要團結社會要安定賴總統昨天在文告中講得非常清楚我也認同但是"},{"start":2061.806,"end":2088.803,"text":"我在這裡更認同的一句話是國家利益永遠高於政黨利益政黨利益永遠不能凌駕人民的利益這我拍拍手那我要請教賴總統你就任以來你的謊話造謠打壓政敵"},{"start":2090.577,"end":2114.293,"text":"製造對立在國人都是在找敵人這等等我請問你這次說的文告是真的或假的所以賴總統你能不能做給我們看一看千萬不要講一套做一套"},{"start":2115.916,"end":2121.2,"text":"那現在未來我就要請教我們最敬愛的左院長賴總統的話你聽不聽"},{"start":2124.198,"end":2145.276,"text":"所以賴總統已經講出這些話那你到底要不要聽他的話在整個施政在立法院的關係如何去改善你要不要有所作為那我現在只有問三個敏感的問題第一個原住民的競華補償阿你到底變不變"},{"start":2146.977,"end":2153.503,"text":"二、農民的公糧收購漲5塊錢,那你到底編不編?"},{"start":2153.503,"end":2162.052,"text":"三、另外一個,國會改革的部分,你事先到底撤不撤?"},{"start":2162.052,"end":2166.716,"text":"所以這三點我請卓院長做施政的決策參考。"},{"start":2168.226,"end":2189.211,"text":"當然我們希望代總統、左院長以及執政的所有的同仁我相信你們一定要有誠意放下屠刀、立地成火的個性所以台灣人民多數都希望兩岸和平、政黨和解"},{"start":2190.291,"end":2215.837,"text":"人民安定百姓樂利更希望執政黨要以以民為戀釋出善意達到台灣安和樂利的台灣所以在這裡我還是要拜託執政黨賴總統已經講了立地成火把所有屠刀放下政黨才會合"},{"start":2221.37,"end":2239.676,"text":"謝謝林委員報告院會現在在議場二樓旁聽喜的是臺北市建安國小的小朋友還有老師我們在此歡迎你們的參訪我們現在進行的是國是論壇每人發言三分鐘下一位請歐孟凱委員發言"},{"start":2250.683,"end":2274.07,"text":"主席、行政官員、立議院同仁以及建安師生們,大家早安、大家好。昨天是我們中華民國113歲的生日,聽到了韓國瑜院長國慶致詞跟賴清德總統上任首次的國慶演說。我們必須要說,韓院長的高度,曾經講到台積電,"},{"start":2275.425,"end":2297.482,"text":"可以是中華民國,慈濟可以是中華民國,奧運選手可以是中華民國,青年文創布袋系等等,只要認同熱愛這塊土地並且願意為中華民國努力的人,每一個人都可以是中華民國的一份子。 我想這就代表了臺灣精神,這也代表了中華民國的價值。"},{"start":2298.687,"end":2323.265,"text":"經過半個世界的努力,華麗變成世界前25大的經濟體。 臺灣價值就是中華民國價值的一體兩面。 而我們更期待的就是希望未來能夠讓政府有能、人民有權、國會有監督才能真正實現民有、民智、民想的民主精神, 落腳在臺灣、落腳在中華民國。"},{"start":2325.811,"end":2350.632,"text":"另外一個部分,我們也要說賴清德總統昨天所強調的跨黨派朝野合作,訴諸團結台灣。 我想兩千三百五十萬人沒有一個人不希望團結。 但重點是,無論國家利益高於政黨利益,政黨利益不能凌駕人民利益。 我們要請教現在執政的執政黨,你做到了嗎?"},{"start":2351.633,"end":2377.739,"text":"民進黨,你有做到嗎?過去放任網軍徹裔持續不斷拿不實的資料抹黑、再張、造謠,這樣子算是團結台灣嗎?撕裂台灣,讓中華民國國家烏煙瘴氣,這真的符合我們的國家利益嗎?民進黨說今天希望朝野和解飯能夠一飯米恩仇。"},{"start":2378.547,"end":2384.972,"text":"我必須很實際的講很抱歉在野黨與執政黨沒有恩也沒有仇"},{"start":2385.731,"end":2414.264,"text":"立法部門跟行政部門沒有恩也沒有仇大家都是為人民服務大家都是為國家利益來共同打拼既然如此我們只要求的是依法行政依法編列依法編列立即審查預算違法漏編這就是政院的怠惰所以每一個部分只要依法行政我想大家就可以開大門走大路"},{"start":2415.014,"end":2416.455,"text":"謝謝黃委員下一位我們請羅志強委員發言"},{"start":2457.5,"end":2486.909,"text":"和解範韓國瑜有真心賴清德有爭議嗎首先要謝謝韓國瑜院長給了我們一個滿滿中華民國國旗的中華民國國慶為委屈了8年的中華民國爭了一口氣這是韓國瑜對中華民國對台灣的真心跟真愛我希望賴清德總統可以學習"},{"start":2489.399,"end":2508.838,"text":"賴總統除了口頭上說到中華民國有沒有像韓國瑜一樣真心誠意的愛中華民國賴總統昨天在國慶演說上說人民想要當家做主的願望終於實現我想請教賴總統"},{"start":2510.919,"end":2530.226,"text":"人民反廢死、要正義、挺核能、反空汙的願望實現了嗎?那時候還說國家要團結、社會要安定。 感謝韓國瑜和卓榮泰開啟朝野合作,促成朝野黨團會商。"},{"start":2532.076,"end":2545.367,"text":"我想請教賴總統,韓院長昨天當面呼籲您尊重國會改革,打造一個所有官員負責任、不造假、不隱瞞、不推諉的體制的建言,你聽見了嗎?"},{"start":2548.417,"end":2564.708,"text":"賴總統說國家利益永遠高於政黨利益政黨利益不能凌駕人民利益那我就請教賴總統為什麼親近執政黨的媒體8年可以拿到95億元的標案不親近執政黨的媒體卻要被罰錢關台"},{"start":2567.403,"end":2588.777,"text":"解鈴還需細鈴人,要化解朝野僵局,和解飯當然可以吃啊,但如果只是想把球踢給韓國瑜院長,那就太算計了。 要化解朝野僵局使作勇者的行政院,就應該先拋出和解的三大橄欖枝。"},{"start":2590.356,"end":2608.884,"text":"禁法補償、健保典值、公糧收購、要依法編列、尊重立法,這才是所謂的要化解朝野僵局的誠意。 所以要化解政治對立,那麼始作俑者的民進黨,"},{"start":2610.59,"end":2639.207,"text":"請你先尊重民主﹐放棄在基隆搞的惡意罷免﹐法院已經適度打臉了民進黨﹐還謝國良清白﹐我請賴清德主席﹐你趕快命令林佑昌﹐停止作亂﹐還給基隆一個善良乾淨的治理環境。﹐遞書感染之﹐化解朝野僵局跟政治對立﹐主動權就在賴清德總統手上﹐"},{"start":2639.775,"end":2641.416,"text":"要不要遞書在你一念之間謝謝羅委員登記國是論壇發言的委員均已發言完畢現在休息"},{"start":5404.327,"end":5409.253,"text":"請秘書長報告出席人數。現在開會進行報告事項,請秘書長宣讀第二會期第三次會議意思錄。"},{"start":5419.301,"end":5428.447,"text":"宣讀立法院第11屆第2會期第3次會議意思錄﹖時間中華民國113年10月4日上午9時1分至9時27分、10時1分至11時59分、下午2時30分至6時3分﹖10月8日上午9時至10時25分、下午2時30分至4時31分﹖地點﹖扁院議場、出席委員、荒圍國倉等112人﹖請教委員、楊委員要﹖"},{"start":5446.718,"end":5457.893,"text":"列席官員．行政院長卓榮泰等40人．主席院長韓國瑜．副院長江啟臣．報告事項第一案．宣讀本院第11屆第2會期第2次會議事錄．決定．確定第二至6、6、4至175案．"},{"start":5464.261,"end":5472.21,"text":"均決定交互相關委員會審查或交互相關委員會。 第63案決定經獲得與相關提案並案協商。 第176至178為財政委員會等所提出報告案。"},{"start":5479.218,"end":5501.175,"text":"第179、180案均決定展延審查期限。 質詢事項本院委員質詢部分三件。 討論事項第一案決議交互黨團協商。 第二、三案均決議互議案不通過。 第四案決議另定體處理。 對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。 決定下次會議進行經濟組織質詢。 其他事項"},{"start":5506.377,"end":5510.659,"text":"本次會議施政報告事項、執行事項．對行政院院長施政報告繼續執行．照台灣民眾黨黨團提議通過．討論事項．台灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團提議通過．宣讀完畢。法院會針對第二會期第三次會議一事錄"},{"start":5528.837,"end":5556.544,"text":"並無委員或黨團提出錯誤或遺漏之處,作以下決定,第二會期第三次會議意思度確定,請宣讀第二案。第二案,本院委員洪森漢等17人理據《身心障礙者權利公約施行法》第五條、第六條及第八條條文修正草案請選一案。陳修緣會見,您請問會教衛教及國防、社會福利及衛生環境兩委員會審查,宣讀完畢。有異議,請問有異議,無異議通過。"},{"start":5558.789,"end":5583.792,"text":"第三案 本月委員紅山案等17人離聚,勞動基準法增提第40條之一條文草案請審議案。 程序委員會見,立行會交,社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。 宣讀完畢。 請勿有異議,無異議通過。 第四案 本月委員范雲等16人離聚,青年基本法草案請審議案。 程序委員會見,立行會交,教育及文化委員會審查。 宣讀完畢。 無異議通過。"},{"start":5584.67,"end":5585.11,"text":"五議通過五議通過"},{"start":5607.95,"end":5633.286,"text":"無異議通過。 第7案本院委員業員之等20人理據公有貴重財稅文物清點法草案請水一案。 程序委員會見你請會交財政教育及文化聯盟委員會審查。 宣讀完畢。 無異議通過。 第8案本院委員業員之等21人理據教育經費編列與管理法第三條條文修正草案請水一案。 程序委員會見你請會交教育及文化聯盟委員會審查。 宣讀完畢。 無異議通過。"},{"start":5633.973,"end":5658.984,"text":"第9案 本院委員翁曉琳等18日離去臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第67條條文修正常案請審議案。 程序委員會見立行會交內政委員會審查。 宣讀完畢。 無異動過。 第10案 本院委員黃傑等18日離去立法委員行為法第10條及第14條之一條文修正常案請審議案。 程序委員會見立行會交司法及法制委員會審查。 宣讀完畢。 無異動過。 第11案"},{"start":5661.004,"end":5681.44,"text":"本院委員王宏偉等20人離聚娛樂稅法第2條條文修正常請審議案。 程序委員會見你請回交財政委員會審查。 宣言完畢。 第12案本院委員王宏偉等23人離聚公共電視法第11條條文修正常請審議案。 程序委員會見你請回交教育及文化委員會審查。 宣言完畢。"},{"start":5681.98,"end":5696.832,"text":"無異議通過。 第13案本院委員洪孟凱等19人領據《運動產業發展條例增令》第7條之一、第7條之二及第7條之三條文草案請水應案。 程序委員會見。 請回交交給王化元會審查。 宣布完畢。 無異議通過。"},{"start":5697.572,"end":5720.484,"text":"第14案 本院委員陳玉珍等19人理據《人民團體法》增令第8條之1條文草原請選一案。 陳修委員會見。 立行委員將內政委員會審查。 宣言完畢。 委員當過第15案 本院委員陳玉珍等18人理據《地方制度法》第56條條文修正草原請選一案。 陳修委員會見。 立行委員將內政司法及法制兩委員會審查。 宣言完畢。 委員當過"},{"start":5721.585,"end":5741.921,"text":"第16案 本院委員陳玉珍等19人凝聚。 領導建設條例增立第13條之一及第13條之二條文草案請水一案。 陳書遠會見理行會交經紀委員會審查。 宣讀完畢。 無異通過第17案 本院委員陳玉珍等17人凝聚。 領導建設條例增立第18條之一條文草案請水一案。 陳書遠會見理行會交經紀委員會審查。 宣讀完畢。 無異通過"},{"start":5746.124,"end":5768.309,"text":"第18案 本院委員陳玉珍等17人邻居正確交易法第22條條文修正草案請水印案。 陳修揚會見理行會交財政委員會審查。 宣言完畢。 無異議通過第19案 本院委員邱振軍等17人邻居所得稅法第17條條文修正草案請水印案。 陳修揚會見理行會交財政委員會審查。 宣言完畢。 無異議通過"},{"start":5769.049,"end":5769.15,"text":"御異議通過"},{"start":5780.444,"end":5801.262,"text":"第21案本委員委員邱振均等17人鄰居中華民國新法第339條14條文修正草原清水案陳修揚會見你請會交司法及法制委員會審查。 宣傳完畢。 無異議通過第22案本委員委員楊崇英等19人鄰居武統計劃法第45條條文修正草原清水案陳修揚會見你請會交內政委員會審查。 宣傳完畢。 無異議通過"},{"start":5805.578,"end":5828.027,"text":"第二十三案本院委員楊瓊英等20人理據《都市更新條例》第65條條文修正財運情緒議案陳秀燕會見立行會長內政委員會審查 宣言完畢第二十四案本院委員楊瓊英等19人理據《教育經費編列與管理法》第三條條文修正財運情緒議案陳秀燕會見立行會教育及文化委員會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":5828.567,"end":5829.528,"text":"五一當過五一當過五一當過"},{"start":5857.071,"end":5867.858,"text":"第27案 本委員 楊瓊怡的21年年居老人福利法第22條條文修正草案請選案。 陳秀陽會議員明顯會將社會福利優先環境文會審查。 宣言完畢。"},{"start":5870.072,"end":5892.132,"text":"二十八案 本院委員要求1.21人理據《社會救助法》第十一條條文修正草案請水印案。 程序委員會間你請回交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。 宣言完畢二十九案 本院委員領取1.19人理據《正確教育稅條例》第二條主二條文修正草案請水印案。 程序委員會間你請回交財政委員會審查。 宣言完畢"},{"start":5893.632,"end":5916.489,"text":"第30案本院委員林楚英等18人聯聚徒地稅法第54條條文修正常請審議案。 程序委員會見你請回交財政委員會審查。 宣布完畢。 無異議通過第31案本院委員林楚英等20人聯聚身心障礙者權益保障法第10條條文修正常請審議案。 程序委員會見你請回交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。 宣布完畢。 無異議通過"},{"start":5917.29,"end":5940.938,"text":"李三十二案 本院委員林楚瑩等學習委員連續兒童青少年福利與權益保障法第69條條文修正財運緊水一案。 財修委員會見你請回交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。 宣言完畢李三十三案 本院委員賴會員等37人連續證券交易稅條例第2條12及第12條條文修正財運緊水一案。 財修委員會見你請回交財政委員會審查。 宣言完畢"},{"start":5943.679,"end":5944.44,"text":"第三十四案．第35案．第35案．"},{"start":5967.321,"end":5992.241,"text":"第三十六案 本月委員往美會等18日離聚替代議實施條例第59條條文修正操請選一案。 財修委員會見立行會長內政委員會審查。 宣言完畢。 我亦當過。第三十七案 本月委員往美會等18日離聚全民健康保險法陣列第13條之一及第13條之二條文操案請選一案。 財修委員會見立行會長社會福利基金會上環境委員會審查。 宣言完畢。 我亦當過。"},{"start":5992.921,"end":5992.941,"text":"無異動過"},{"start":6004.008,"end":6026.353,"text":"第39案 本院委員郭國文等16人邻居所得稅碼第17條條文修正常請選一案。 前修委員會間你請回交財政委員會審查。 宣傳完畢。 委員通過第40案 本院委員郭國文等16人邻居公務稅條例第12條基地12條之6條文修正常請選一案。 前修委員會間你請回交財政委員會審查。 宣傳完畢。 委員通過"},{"start":6027.213,"end":6046.091,"text":"第41案本院委員郭國文的16人理據公司法第165條條文修正財務請選一案。 陳修緣會見你請回交經濟委員會審查。 宣言完畢。第42案本院委員林月琴等25人理據兒童青少年福利與權益保障法第69條及第103條條文修正財務請選一案。 陳修緣會見你請回交社會福利集會上環境委員會審查。 宣言完畢。"},{"start":6051.997,"end":6075.406,"text":"五一通過。 第43案本院委員吳春晨等41人領據《壯士態政策與產業方針促進法》草案請審議案。 程序委員會見,立行會交社會福利及衛生環境經濟兩委員會審查。 宣告完畢。 五一通過。 第44案本院台灣民眾黨兩團領據《公民投票法》第21條及第43條條文修正草案請審議案。 程序委員會見,立行會交內屆委員會審查。 宣告完畢。"},{"start":6079.328,"end":6099.362,"text":"第45案 本月臺灣民眾囊囊團聯聚公職委員選舉報名違法第62條條文修正草案請審議案。 詳細委員會見你請回交內政委員會審查。 宣言完畢第46案 本月臺灣民眾囊囊團聯聚在省里原發生條例第19條之一及第21條條文修正草案請審議案。 詳細委員會見你請回交經濟委員會審查。 宣言完畢"},{"start":6103.385,"end":6126.302,"text":"第47案﹐本月臺灣民眾黨黨團聯聚﹐農村再生條例第二條及第35條條文修正草原侵水案﹐程序委員會見﹐立行會加入經濟委員會審查﹐宣讀完畢。 委員動過第48案﹐本月臺灣民眾黨黨團聯聚﹐國民教育法第3條及第4條條文修正草原侵水案﹐程序委員會見﹐立行會加入教育及文化委員會審查﹐宣讀完畢。 委員動過"},{"start":6127.583,"end":6150.169,"text":"第49案 本院臺灣民眾黨黨團聯聚國民體育法第18條及第44條條文修正常請審議案。 前序委員會見立行會教教育界文化委員會審查。 宣讀完畢。 委員通告第50案 本院臺灣民眾黨黨團聯聚停車場法第38條條文修正常請審議案。 前序委員會見立行會教交通委員會審查。 宣讀完畢。 委員通告"},{"start":6150.871,"end":6173.285,"text":"第51案﹐本月臺灣民眾黨黨團聯聚公路法第39條之一條維修憲草案請審議案﹐財修委員會見立行會交交通委員會審查﹐宣讀完畢。 五議通過。 第52案﹐本月臺灣民眾黨黨團聯聚體育及運動發展部組織法草案請審議案﹐財修委員會見立行會交司法及法制教育及文化聯委委員會審查﹐宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6173.965,"end":6175.026,"text":"五、一、當過五、一、當過五、一、當過五、一、當過五、一、當過五、一、當過"},{"start":6197.003,"end":6210.589,"text":"我異動過。 第55案本院臺灣民眾黨黨團聯聚中央行政機關組織基準法第二十九條及第三十三條談文修正常競選議案。 前衆委員會見議請回交司法及法治委員或審查。 宣言完畢。 我異動過。"},{"start":6211.564,"end":6234.642,"text":"第56案 本月臺灣民眾黨老團凝聚公務人員保障法暫定第19條之一條文草案請審議案。 陳修揚會見你請回交司法及法律委員會審查。 宣告完畢第57案 本月臺灣民眾黨老團凝聚勞動檢查法第15條條文修正草案請審議案。 陳修揚會見你請回交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。 宣告完畢"},{"start":6235.242,"end":6235.642,"text":"五、一、當過五、一、當過"},{"start":6249.008,"end":6265.118,"text":"第59案 金融監督管理委員會橫送延長調降當日重銷交易稅之稅市支出評估報告及延長延長調降當中交易證券交易稅實施期間公聽會之會議解錄。 柴修委員會間內行會交財政委員會處理。 宣讀完畢本案臺灣民眾黨黨團提議改交審查交財政委員會審查下一案"},{"start":6275.697,"end":6277.739,"text":"本案台灣民眾黨黨團提議改交審查交經濟委員會審查下一案"},{"start":6293.345,"end":6311.751,"text":"第61案 行政委員響為內政部辦理替代以備役藝男召集訓練實施方案 治安維護組及防災救護組訓練經費不敷 同時113年度中央政府總預算第二日備金1億3940萬3千元致應 資檢送第二日備金動證書和機關別表 請衆議院會見 您請回交財政內政兩委員會 宣讀完畢"},{"start":6316.445,"end":6331.373,"text":"第62案 前紀委行委海洋委員會海巡署堅持衛星導航搜尋系統所需經費,都是113年度中央政府總預算第2日被禁,4億6千4百7十萬元之印,自檢送第2日被禁動之數為7萬別票。 前紀委員會見,您請回交財政內政兩委員會。 宣讀完畢"},{"start":6335.996,"end":6358.571,"text":"第63案．經濟部海外修正地質資料供應及收費標準第3條附表二﹐陳秀元會見逆行會交經濟委員會﹐宣告完畢。 二議通過第64案．經濟部海外修正經濟部經貿人員培訓所編制表﹐並自112年9月26日生效﹐陳秀元會見逆行會交司法及法治經濟聯盟委員會﹐宣告完畢。 二議通過"},{"start":6360.576,"end":6368.769,"text":"第62 農業部橫送農業部農田水利署 平等管理處 農田水利事業區域內灌溉制度 財修委員會見 以及匯交經濟委員會 宣讀完畢"},{"start":6370.663,"end":6373.104,"text":"五一通過五一通過五一通過"},{"start":6398.01,"end":6422.004,"text":"第68案 農業部海運修正公告﹐澳大利亞新南威爾斯省自冬病原性家庭流息性感冒非去刪除﹐強行委員會見你請回交經濟委員會﹐宣布完畢。 委員通告第69案 農業部海運修正公告﹐農業部農田水利署、桃園管理處、農田水利事業區域內灌溉制度﹐強行委員會見你請回交經濟委員會﹐宣布完畢。 委員通告"},{"start":6422.591,"end":6436.149,"text":"第70案 農業部考原農會與會信用部賠付專款將給付中央存款保險股份有限公司﹐以捐付委任律師單位訴訟﹐所支出相關費用新台幣552,000元﹐程序委員會見﹐立行會交經濟委員會﹐宣傳完畢"},{"start":6439.81,"end":6441.21,"text":"無異議通過無異議通過無異議通過"},{"start":6461.437,"end":6461.637,"text":"委員通告"},{"start":6471.932,"end":6473.233,"text":"五一通過五一通過五一通過"},{"start":6495.894,"end":6509.727,"text":"第76案 金融監督管理委員會 駐宅地震保險危險分散機制實施辦法 第9條、第10條、第13條調溫 及參觀法人駐宅地震保險基金管理辦法 第7條、第11條調溫 程序委員會見議請回交財政委員會 宣誓完畢"},{"start":6513.243,"end":6542.265,"text":"主席 第77案 專科學校法實行細則第5條之1條文 採取委員會建立行會教育及文化委員會 宣布完畢主席 第78案 教育部海文修正教育司法實行細則第18條條文 採取委員會建立行會教育及文化委員會 宣布完畢主席 第79案 教育部海文修正大學法實行細則第17條之1條文 採取委員會建立行會教育及文化委員會 宣布完畢"},{"start":6543.171,"end":6543.291,"text":"五、一、動過"},{"start":6561.343,"end":6589.228,"text":"第81案 璇璣木海維修正璇璣木教育農林璇璣處辦事系責部份條文。 財政委員會見立行會交司法及法制財政兩委員會。 宣讀完畢。 國議通過第82案 璇璣木海維修正管制藥品分階級品項部份分階級品項。 財政委員會見立行會交社會福利及衛生環境委員會。 宣讀完畢。本來國民黨黨團提議改交審查交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。 下一案"},{"start":6589.673,"end":6607.983,"text":"第一八十三案 勞動部海外修正 中業服務法 實行細則 第九條 第九條之一及第十五條條文 陳修緣會見 您請回交 社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣讀完畢無異動過第一八十四案 物性福利部海外修正 學民健康保險醫療辦法 第22條及第28條條文 陳修緣會見 您請回交 社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣讀完畢無異動過"},{"start":6615.083,"end":6617.025,"text":"本案國民黨黨團提議改交審查,交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。"},{"start":6632.728,"end":6650.84,"text":"第86案 衛生福利部函送化妝品防曬劑成分使用限制表﹐出現化妝品成分使用限制表﹐及廢止特定用途化妝品成分名稱及使用限制表﹐並至113年7月1日生效。 程序委員會見 您請回交社會福利機構上環境委員會。 宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6653.134,"end":6679.576,"text":"第87案 衛生福利部海外修正 要事法第106條所稱﹐無要事委員職業之偏遠地區與非屬上屬偏遠地區列表附表10附表14﹐及全民健康保險系醫療資源不足地區來商方案循環地點﹐列屬要事法第106條所稱﹐無要事委員職業之偏遠地區列表附表6附表10﹐程序委員會見﹐你請回交社會福利及衛生環境委員會。 宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6681.721,"end":6683.262,"text":"國民黨黨團提議改交審查,交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查。"},{"start":6700.848,"end":6707.61,"text":"報告院會第89案至第190案請依序宣讀其中第92、93、99、106、108、111、112、115、162、171、177及182案"},{"start":6722.295,"end":6747.386,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團提議改交審查。 第161案臺灣民眾黨黨團提議退回程序委員會重新提出。 宣讀後以上提案除退回程序委員會重新提出外其他均改交相關委員會審查。 其餘議案均照程序委員會意見通過。 請問院會有異議。"},{"start":6750.16,"end":6776.325,"text":"五、一、宣讀後通過請宣讀。第189案之第105案農業部,第106案之第10方案經濟部,第109案選計部,第110案之第11經案財政部,第11方案行政院,第119案核能安全委員會,第120案之第133案教育部,第134案之第146案文化部,第14經案之第160案國家科學及基礎委員會,第1161案國家通訊傳播委員會,"},{"start":6777.005,"end":6778.826,"text":"發言會第191案宣讀後照程序委員會意見通過另外"},{"start":6805.185,"end":6827.885,"text":"第192案以下請一併宣讀,宣讀後均准予被查,請宣讀。第191案本院司法及法治委員會衡為院會前交部審查行政院案情審議,未選同這時期國家不法行為被害者權利回覆條例部分條文修正常案,應該與法案主管機關委內政部盡情改交全責所屬委員會審查。"},{"start":6829.466,"end":6837.59,"text":"陳迅委員會見﹚第192案為本院財政委員會函﹚為院會教部審查財政法人﹚臺灣金融研訓院等7家財政法人﹚111年度預算書案﹚已於年度預算執行期間﹚第193案為本院財政委員會函﹚為院會教部審查財政法人﹚臺灣金融研訓院等7家財政法人﹚"},{"start":6858.28,"end":6882.364,"text":"即將在論壇人一百十一年度決算書案﹐因予以送達後一年內完成審查之期限﹐原於決策法第28條適同審議通過。 質詢事項﹐假施政院答覆部分﹐施政院還送本院黃委員介好﹐所提質詢之書面答覆共一件﹐以本院委員質詢部分﹐本院羅委員志強等向施政院提出質詢共三件。 宣讀完畢。"},{"start":6885.933,"end":6894.925,"text":"報告院會現在對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。今天進行個人質詢、經濟組織質詢。現在請郭國文委員質詢。"},{"start":6921.411,"end":6938.468,"text":"主席有請卓院長請卓院長備詢郭委員長卓院長好聽說今天中午要吃和解飯"},{"start":6939.568,"end":6968.217,"text":"好像應該史上第一例嘛,史無前例嘛,是不是?不會吧?真的嗎?對,我印象中,我打聽的結果應該是史無前例啊。但這要和解飯中午要吃啊。陳建仁院長的時候也是多次這樣,院長之間有聯誼啊。行政,立法院長邀行政院長應該是第一次啦,據我理解的部分。這個也不是什麼邀,我們是約好的,也沒有誰邀誰,約好的。沒關係,誰主動都沒有關係,重點是結果。結果有沒有信心?"},{"start":6969.791,"end":6993.41,"text":"結果有沒有信心?和解能不能達成?對國家有信心,對任何的團結的動作就要深具信念。對韓院長要有信心?有有有有。你如果能夠達成的話,這趟和解飯我跟他算一下,總預算的金額高達3兆1325億。如果能夠吃完這趟飯,你的行情就不一樣了。"},{"start":6994.491,"end":7021.706,"text":"我照委員這樣算,那民間的任何的投資更大,我覺得這是國家整體發展,我們一起努力。對,為了福國人民,這趟飯一定要吃,一定要和解。 院長,加油啊,祝你成功。另外,院長,今天的這個新聞有一個,就立法院的預算中心提出一個低薪的一個報告,有關低薪的報告當中,本席在這個質詢台上我講了好幾次,不論是央行提出報告,不論是監察院,"},{"start":7023.094,"end":7044.989,"text":"審計部提出報告,最後提出不外乎三個辦法,一個就是鼓勵企業加薪,第二個提高最低工資,第三個協助勞工的溢價能力。後兩者老實講,該發揮的都發揮了,就剩下企業而已。企業的部分本席上次有質詢要跟企業喊話,就我理解你還沒喊話,但是總統已經喊話了。"},{"start":7046.73,"end":7066.595,"text":"但是就我來說我相信你還有很多機會可以跟企業喊話更何況企業找你的機會非常的多還有一點本席提醒你一下以前行政院曾經提成立一個小組叫改善所得分配專案小組這個跨部會的小組後來居然取消掉了院長你知道這件事情嗎我要再瞭解一下你要去瞭解一下"},{"start":7071.874,"end":7099.05,"text":"如果說站在一個行政院部會連一個小組都解除掉的話很難讓人家相信說政府有那個決心跟魄力想要來解決現在低頻近頻低新或低新造成近頻的一個現象這個問題非同小可上次的論述當中我已經都跟你提過了麻煩院長再費心一下另外院長你在9月15號的時候有去過本期的選區七股對不對"},{"start":7100.612,"end":7123.83,"text":"那一次你特別去看太陽能光電的案場那個案場你去看是成功的案例啊但是有很多諸多失敗受到社會詬病甚至檢方介入甚至起訴的案件以及小惡假的現象本身必須在這邊慎重的提醒為什麼因為當初就是為了追求KPI啊"},{"start":7124.898,"end":7152.717,"text":"以至於整個綠能在推動的過程當中失去了正當性受到在野黨污名化也好受到社會的質疑也好以至於現階段我們要推動綠能變成是難上加難但是本席想要再提醒一下院長諸如此類的現象不是發生在太陽能業者而已還發生在什麼就天然氣的部分"},{"start":7156.808,"end":7177.48,"text":"我們現在天然氣的整個發展的目標2025的能源目標明年就到了50%天然氣30%燃煤20%再生能源現實上我們的天然氣大概目前佔4成燃煤的部分超過4成多一點核能的部分佔6.3%以至於再生能源的部分不到10%目前的規模大概是這樣子"},{"start":7178.7,"end":7197.185,"text":"在這種情況底下我們在2023年的時候提出了一個10年規劃案就是希望把這個天然氣的發電從20GW提升到47GW結果你提升的結果呢想要透過民間一起合作"},{"start":7198.168,"end":7226.247,"text":"以至於你用一個什麼方法?我擔心你一樣會陷入KPI的思考一樣可能會超車甚至有可能會翻車原因在哪裡?本席慎重的提醒你以前要跟台電簽訂這個購售條合約的時候購售電合約的時候也是所謂的PPA的時候他要五大條件工氣、土地、系統評估、環境核准函、地方政府同意函結果後來他改成什麼?他改成只要前三者後兩者不用"},{"start":7227.188,"end":7255.494,"text":"地方不用同意環評先不用通過但是你就可以先PPA了院長你覺得這合理嗎地方現在最難以接受的說突然之間這個地方要設廠突然之間這個地方要設廠完全不清楚以至於反彈非常的炸當然會怪罪政府以至於現在天然氣發電可能會重蹈太陽能暗場一樣的結果"},{"start":7257.657,"end":7285.196,"text":"本席在這邊跟您說﹖一旦業者簽了這個PPA之後﹖他好像沒有退路﹖沒有退路了﹖因為違約金很高啊﹖他怕臺電又處罰﹖因此呢﹖他只有往前衝﹖以至於衝突不斷在再發生。 院長﹖這種不合理的方式本席強烈要求啊﹖要跟臺電簽PPA不要急躁﹖一定要在五大條件恢復的情況底下才能來簽﹖"},{"start":7286.8,"end":7287.3,"text":"謝謝委員提醒 天然氣發電廠它的設置"},{"start":7302.537,"end":7329.376,"text":"我們有一定的程序跟標準那應該也應該會一定要經過很多的環境影響評估沒有至於說的跟地方溝通不及的部分我們可以檢討在這個作為上如果能夠更加強跟地方的溝通了解來促進這個更可能性的成功我們願意這樣做院長問題是沒有成功本席跟你舉一個例子我手頭拿這一份資料就是堅決反對久違"},{"start":7332.419,"end":7359.04,"text":"設置了連署以前在網路上的連署高達一萬三千多份本席拿到厚厚的這疊也不過是兩千份而已後面還在連署當中這個案子在本席不斷努力的情況底下他已經撤掉了喔撤掉了最近又死灰復燃我們請部長來說明一下死灰復燃了而且還不止九位還多了一個寶村"},{"start":7361.089,"end":7362.49,"text":"報告委員 現在因為很多的產業都想要進駐台南"},{"start":7382.941,"end":7393.505,"text":"所以臺南需要有電的這個 國務部長我知道你的說法 南科旁邊需要電對不對我問一下中科需不需要電 竹科需不需要電竹科中科有天然氣發電廠嗎"},{"start":7395.1,"end":7398.282,"text":"不是 滿足滿足現在南科只有2.3GW而已 我們可以來算清楚"},{"start":7413.189,"end":7425.237,"text":"你現在要發展的是4.6G幹話是現實上提供之外外加plus4.6G幹話南電北送的結果只要解決北電北方北部人不願意設電廠想要設在南部的需求而已啦"},{"start":7426.516,"end":7447.765,"text":"我們現在的科學園區在臺南還會持續的放大持續的增加所以我們在估計未來要滿足這邊的話水跟煙是不足的旁邊還有星達電彩在改組旁邊還有森巴在偵測從一場偵測二場你沒事幹嘛全部都設在這邊"},{"start":7449.281,"end":7477.219,"text":"不是,沒道理啦!這個是我們要把這個...我跟你講,電的部分不需要就電信,就電的配置上面北中南的均衡,部長。都需要有電廠。需要有電廠,那你設在竹科?你為什麼不是設在中科?你為什麼全部都設在南科?我們現在中科都有中科的電廠在...沒道理嘛!沒有沒有沒有!全部都是設在這邊!而且你現在就開快車,開到後來進入冰箱,你後面我給你算一下,"},{"start":7478.2,"end":7497.412,"text":"不論是這一個九威天然發電廠、寶村天然發電廠這幾個加起來啊,差不多是核能發電廠的量耶。 院長,你肺核的結果難道要讓台南人來承擔嗎?這個委員這樣講... 院長麻煩你回去計算清楚好不好?"},{"start":7497.412,"end":7507.099,"text":"委員這樣的講話有點沉重啦齁。我覺得我們雖然... 你是不是不想要講得這麼沉重?除了...除了... 我算出來的數字是如此。我們除了均衡台灣之外,我們也要全島一命。"},{"start":7508.595,"end":7528.275,"text":"桃竹苗有桃竹苗的發電,台中有台中的發電,已經現在都有了,南部的發展,委員,報告委員,南部的發展會越來越快,難道我們不要先做桃竹苗嗎?我沒有說不發電,沒有人說不發電的道理,但是你選址還有配置,你要公平,你要分配清楚嘛。"},{"start":7529.075,"end":7556.463,"text":"明明已經被退掉的場為什麼可以重新再來臺南的自治率臺灣臺南的自給率只有25%臺南的自給率25%能源的部分我跟部長說除了發電之外還有水利還有綠能我跟你說這個負擔的部分最近整個水利通過的整個那個聯外管線在哪裡就在臺南啊"},{"start":7557.202,"end":7581.088,"text":"最近最新增加的廠在哪裡?也在台南啊!最近整個力能鋪設最多、增益最大在哪裡?也在台南啊!因為台南用電就增加非常的多,在未來會增加很多。每一個能源負擔的地方不一樣,你如果要算的話下次大家可以來算清楚。因為我們現在要這個大南方計畫,會用很多電在台南。問題是這個經濟成果也不是台南獨享啦部長!"},{"start":7582.508,"end":7605.695,"text":"我們現在蓋的墊就是希望在臺南能夠滿足進臺南的企業他們的用政所。你先把真正的建設建設出來再說,不要老是引進這些零幣銷運的建設來到臺南。我們不希望看到,只有看到零幣建設,連銀幣建設都沒有看到。那我請問一下部長嘛,人口數增加這麼多,就業人數這麼多,你改善了什麼生活?"},{"start":7607.142,"end":7623.589,"text":"我沒有看到政府改善什麼生活,我就看到政府來發電而已,著重於思考,沒有著重於生活啊。我們生活上面所需要的這個電跟水,那是生活的基本,我說的生活是交通,是住宅,是物價,是其他的生活機能。"},{"start":7624.409,"end":7625.37,"text":"新的企業本來大家誰會不希望有新的企業企業不是很多都有來嗎?"},{"start":7651.999,"end":7663.352,"text":"報告委員 我想委員我們可以跟台南市政府再進行更有效的溝通跟協商。 市政府一直很希望引進更多更多的大廠到南部地區來。 所以委員你要參與這樣的協商過程。"},{"start":7672.221,"end":7683.427,"text":"我完全沒有參與這樣的協商的過程我看到了連居民都完全都不知道每天都有新的電廠來在這邊如果是你的話你會怎麼想沒有一個大建設就是有電廠來你願意嗎我們核准都要環評啦經過環評環評是適合的環評部長"},{"start":7691.33,"end":7706.035,"text":"反平是事後的反平不是事前你現在五大核準條件是你拿到PPA的合約之後你才去爭取所謂的反平跟地方居民的同意以至於現在早明不斷的原因在這邊 院長你要聽進去啊"},{"start":7707.649,"end":7717.352,"text":"這五大條件沒有放水的理由阿!法定的條件當然不容許放水。 折子之後我們必須要依照法定的程序來。 有任何放水不符合法定的條件請委員跟我們一起加強監督。"},{"start":7732.995,"end":7735.598,"text":"我希望能夠事先重演審查,不要想要KPI,KPI的結果之前的太陽能光電就是這樣的結果。"},{"start":7747.142,"end":7763.31,"text":"不要重蹈覆轍我們同意這個委員所指教的這個不是只有Follow這個KPI啦我們會按照法令許可的部分我們來進行我們也會要求這個臺電針對委員所提出的這個問題進行檢討"},{"start":7765.191,"end":7765.951,"text":"報告委員在發展綠能的過程當中"},{"start":7786.658,"end":7812.598,"text":"天然氣來橋接現在的國發電是必要的程序,這是國家的能源政策,我們也在進行第二次能源轉型。 長設下去就不可能是橋接的啦,長設下去可能是永久性的。 我覺得橋接的部分會喬了很久啦。 我覺得國家的能源政策沒有辦法進行第二次能源轉型,這是我們共同的責任。"},{"start":7813.038,"end":7837.932,"text":"我基本上我當然跟你共同的責任阿我是執政黨的議員阿但是也是因為這樣的共同責任我必須要善盡提醒阿我覺得這個是重蹈覆轍嘛你之前的太陽能政策原來是對的阿可是方法是錯的阿我現在跟你討論的是方法不是討論政策目標阿我當然違反你違反政策目標阿我們會按照這個委員的這個指教那台電會深刻的檢討我就請你們好好檢討一下嘛"},{"start":7842.659,"end":7867.776,"text":"好,謝謝,謝謝郭委員,謝謝左院長。報告委員會現在在議場二樓旁聽席的是芬蘭語言高中的同學,我們在此表示歡迎他們的參訪。Thank you for your visit下一位請柯智恩委員質詢"},{"start":7875.732,"end":7878.655,"text":"主席主席我們是不是請卓院長卓院長請備詢客戶員好院長好聽說你明天要在高雄"},{"start":7892.219,"end":7900.263,"text":"今天中午大家比較關切就是要吃一個所謂的和解飯你對這卷和解飯的信心到底有多少你覺得可以解決我們目前預算卡關的問題嗎"},{"start":7918.953,"end":7941.93,"text":"只要對國家未來有信心,我們任何一次的接觸,我們都要深具信心。大家本來都是這樣的期待的,而且我知道你要來當這個閣魁的時候,大家最期望就是你過去是調和鼎瀨的功夫非常的好,可是這次發現你好像態度越來越強硬,我比較好奇的是你背後的這個賴總統,我說實在的,一般來說根據我們憲法44條規定,當怨跟怨當中有熱和沒有辦法解決,有爭執的時候,"},{"start":7947.074,"end":7959.374,"text":"其實總統應該站出來做一個協調,所以我們只能說到底對這次和解飯當中我們的總統有沒有為你開綠燈,還是他對這次的和解有沒有什麼樣的一個想法?"},{"start":7961.66,"end":7977.957,"text":"總統跟我在憲法的諮詢上的分工是非常清楚明確而且我們也是這樣在進行的那這一次跟韓院長之間是我們那一天我們兩人自己互相的約定我想如果不用動到憲法的層級我們可以在兩院之間來"},{"start":7978.618,"end":7994.02,"text":"我們也期待啦,而且院長你也知道這個問題,癥結其實沒有那麼大啦,彼此各退一步的話,我們就可以好好把這總預算,送到委員會裡面好好來去做,所以我們對於今天的和解,其實不要只是大拜拜,每個人都派出來,然後氣氛氛圍非常的好,但是最具體,"},{"start":7994.861,"end":7995.502,"text":"謝謝委員我也希望在"},{"start":8013.26,"end":8041.053,"text":"法律的原則性問題能夠得到大家互相的尊重跟理解之後,我們就能夠順利往後走。我們期待,我們期待,否則話就是無解。好,我們來看看我們這個碳費。現在目前的碳費已經拍板了,大概就是每公噸300元。但是呢,這個不管是經濟部、產業界或是環團,其實都是非常的不滿意的。而且我知道經濟部長是公開表示相當的遺憾。我不知道經濟部表達遺憾的是不滿這個環境部呢,還是對行政院表達深度的遺憾?"},{"start":8042.564,"end":8064.66,"text":"報告委員,我想這個碳費的部分,我們還是,因為企業是我們在照顧的,那環境部他有維護這個整體國家的這個立場。我完全同意,部長我知道,我完全知道產業下那個需求,所以我想問一下這個院長,你們之間到底有沒有溝通過,經濟部跟環境部有沒有溝通過,感覺起來好像是要在黨內互打的概念,而且我現在要先確定一下,"},{"start":8065.24,"end":8093.405,"text":"大家最關切的是,你會把這個碳費轉嫁到我們這個所謂的消費者的身上,造成所謂的綠色通膨,其實這是大家比較關切的。是的委員,當然經過數次的溝通,兩個部會,跟其他相關部會,跟我本人,我們都參加過相關的。那今天我們訂出來一個標準,經濟部完全叫好,那我覺得環境部那邊就會造成很大的壓力。所以你比較支持經濟部還是比較支持環境部?"},{"start":8094.545,"end":8094.685,"text":"三百塊"},{"start":8115.743,"end":8131.361,"text":"一頓但是你如果有一些優惠自主排碳的話可以50也可以有100我們就這樣算這個range好的如果說是平均來說一頓大概是100塊的話都幾乎要繳到7到8億升到百億的這樣子的碳費那你如何保證這是我們比較關切的"},{"start":8131.821,"end":8155.014,"text":"這些東西到底會不會轉嫁,包括中油,他其實也很想爭取把這個篡費的公式放到他們這樣的一個公式裡面,更不要說台電也想比照這個水費的收費一樣有代收的方法,這些就是一點一滴藏在細節當中,所以院長你可不可以保證到目前為止,永續不用再講了,大家都同意世界的趨勢,會不會轉嫁要由全民來負擔?"},{"start":8156.104,"end":8176.612,"text":"委員我們常常關心世界永續的問題我們每個人多多少少付出一點的責任是要的一點點的責任到底有多少其實我們還是要來關切一下你看目前為止商桌就做得出一個大的一個非常嚴謹的一個報告他說碳費會帶動中南部的房價我跟你說你現在現場沒辦法買房"},{"start":8178.473,"end":8198.893,"text":"太多人會告訴你這叫碳肺保底的概念因為營建的成本未來會提高最近你看不到可是他告訴你3、5年之後因為這個部分太多的元素之後一定會起底所以目前為止已經漲到不行除了台積電效應之外碳肺保底的概念已經變成我們現在買房子裡面大家來說服大家了"},{"start":8199.453,"end":8225.155,"text":"我會明確注意這個事情,產業的發展跟所受的衝擊,部長來答覆。報告委員,我想這一部分經濟部是不斷地在看這些變化,我們大概都有一個小組,不斷地觀察指數的變異,然後我們會有一些方法,那碳稅的部分,碳費的部分,我們跟環境部是在討論,這個是在未來,他現在目前提出這樣100塊,"},{"start":8227.077,"end":8243.974,"text":"我現在只要提醒部長我們希望大家能夠檢探我告訴你這沒有問題但是預期的心理已經產生了所以你看對於這個房市的影響你們村已經對這個新青安的風暴已經可以請很多的大佬來喝咖啡了你這個碳費的部分"},{"start":8244.474,"end":8244.754,"text":"五二零"},{"start":8261.024,"end":8278.417,"text":"但是很顯然的,很多的亂象還是存在的。我想兩位在這邊應該看出來,包括碳的鏈財,告訴你現在有非常多的班,開班授課,告訴大家如何可以通過一套的方法,讓這個企業可以少,甚至不要。還有第二個,很多最重要的是認證的部分。"},{"start":8279.198,"end":8279.218,"text":"三、4、5、6、7、8、9、10"},{"start":8295.287,"end":8296.188,"text":"現在看到沒有?"},{"start":8323.864,"end":8351.304,"text":"報告委員,現在這個因為環境部也是去年才成立,那麼我們現在經濟部我們上來以後我們在不斷的在討論,那我們希望說明年能夠提出來,就像您剛才所指正的,經濟部標準局現在也不斷的在討論這個這樣的一個標準。 是啦,對,部長,我剛才已經特別前提了,環境部是去年才成立的,可是這就告訴打臉我們過去,我們過去8年是民進黨執政,不是你們,但是過去"},{"start":8352.185,"end":8352.205,"text":"二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、12、13、14、15、16、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50"},{"start":8370.882,"end":8396.556,"text":"你高雄啦,拜託,每天去給我們看一下好不好。但是呢,他安全教育所設在高雄,是在前鎮,但是你知道成立一年多了,院長成立一年多,這很重要喔。但是呢,成立一年多,現在馬上被詐騙集團動用總經理的照片跟資料,而且用AI身為的合成照片裡面,在社群裡面,來販賣廣發金融商品跟投資的訊息,你說對不對?"},{"start":8397.937,"end":8417.068,"text":"委員長,探權交易才成立一年多,很符合現代的潮流,李國雄,我確實知道,行政院的效率應該要比上詐騙集團,你們的速度要比上詐騙集團,他比你更了解,一年多來,他就已經不斷用這個方法來去做這樣一個處理,所以這個東西是很嚴重的,院長你不覺得嗎?"},{"start":8418.813,"end":8438.713,"text":"詐騙的問題我們一步一步來處理,跟委員報告,我們是去年才通過這個紀後變遷的相關法令,現在環境部在9月份才公佈了三個執法,所以他們一步一步的來處理,並不是說我們過去不作為,是現在到了我們必須面對現在這個環境的作為。 我還是覺得哨率是晚了一些,連連。"},{"start":8440.635,"end":8440.655,"text":"二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、"},{"start":8460.18,"end":8461.821,"text":"要怎麼分配?"},{"start":8461.821,"end":8479.366,"text":"我說實在的,高雄現在是三高,碳排高、污染高、碳被繳的高,所以我們現在很擔心什麼?費用繳了這麼多,到時候總部都不在我們高雄住在台北,污染給我們吸,然後錢繳到台北,這樣不合理?"},{"start":8480.626,"end":8500.809,"text":"以後這個部分你要怎麼解決?這跟我們得利?報告委員,我們現在針對這個命題,這麼大的一個命題,我們提出一個可以改變的方法。也就是說我進來以後,我提出來一個境外觀內的這樣的一個概念。我們幫助台灣所謂用電、碳排高比較大的產業往外移走。"},{"start":8501.729,"end":8525.24,"text":"對,這個是我們希望透過政府的力量,然後替他們找到一個可以發展的地方。對,因為美國也常說這個部分嘛,你把這個碳費說完之後,你為了要活絡地方的產業經濟,你有一套配套的做法嘛。這是我今天特別要提出來嘛,特別到高雄。你到底,我們繳了這麼多費用,而且你看嘛,這個目前來說,你們也宣布要用三大綠色基金。院長我講實在,我看你的綠色基金,我怕了,你看,100億的綠色成長基金,"},{"start":8528.541,"end":8530.142,"text":"我再說一次,空污高、碳排高、我們碳費繳的也高。 啊,中共這樣不給我們補足多少?你說對這個地方來說,真的是非常非常的嚴重啦!"},{"start":8549.688,"end":8567.198,"text":"委員,我們跟你報告一下,您剛剛所指教的這三個領域,我們都可以再處理。我們會把高雄它原來產生碳高的地方、電高的地方,把它移到其他的地區,讓高雄在原來的地方可以高質化,做一些"},{"start":8568.92,"end":8571.162,"text":"二零二二年竟然比二零二一年的碳排還要增加4.6%拜託"},{"start":8598.78,"end":8613.926,"text":"谷尼,這真的是已經做了這樣的處理了, 碳排還是要增加。 所以說我說實在的,這是不是有辦法透過徵收這個碳費來讓我們環境更加永續。 這個數字會說謊,院長、部長,對吧?"},{"start":8613.926,"end":8621.729,"text":"所以說以價質量、經濟效果, 剛才有把這個碳排的這個大戶就因此要怎麼處置, 這也是個大的課題喔,對吧?"},{"start":8623.63,"end":8650.869,"text":"所以這樣我們更需要來協助、輔導、要求他們能夠...你不要到時候到了2024比2023的碳排又更高...能夠達到的自儲減量的這個產業他才能夠用優惠的...所以我就是告訴你數字嘛用了這些東西到時候你看碳排量還是很高而且像技術又這麼樣發達最後的時間真的很有限啦我確實知道大家還是考慮到電價的問題嘛因為郭部長當開始的時候6月你就說你不贊成波普但是你們的行政院發言人馬上幫你講說噢這1000億"},{"start":8652.99,"end":8677.484,"text":"不是跟這個有關,很快就解決這個問題,但是今年我們看到的預算當中還是要再編一千億啊,所以我只能說,你看漲幅12.5%,然後呢台電營收有741,那為什麼還要再補一千億,這大家非常關切,重點是你補了一千億之後,你真的可以保證我們的電價到底可以撐到什麼時候,可以讓我們的民生用電大家都有個安心的一個標準啊。"},{"start":8678.746,"end":8686.178,"text":"報告委員,如果說我們能夠得到大院各位委員的支持,然後我們可以改善"},{"start":8688.353,"end":8688.733,"text":"我會要求臺電的這個管理"},{"start":8709.063,"end":8722.996,"text":"能夠精進所以那個院長有要求我兩年以兩年內如果這個台電不能夠正向得了這個補助然後兩年內你還要漲價那可能就是我告別的時候"},{"start":8724.735,"end":8744.627,"text":"你一直告訴我說兩年之內我給你這麼多的錢臺電還沒有所作為還是不斷的要嘛就是給我漲電價要嘛就是補助就是你郭部長下台的時候你就要為臺電下台就對了因為你要為你的政策負責任就對了我們是說我們會共同努力讓兩年後臺電的財務能夠健全那健全的過程當中總有一段要調整期"},{"start":8744.907,"end":8759.58,"text":"現在我們盡量在調整,內外部都要調整。 其實立憲部長都想要讓台電健全啦。 你的補助啦,你的補助對我們的民生物價的這個穩定有非常正向的。 我們當然知道啦,但是你知道台電齁"},{"start":8760.901,"end":8783.307,"text":"還有拿4500萬去做宣傳費用告訴大家臺電是多麼需要大家的補助我講實在的現在花了4500萬在做宣傳啊遠不如好好來處理一下到底整個管理的機制是怎麼樣好好運用你過去管理企業界的機制來給關關我們的臺電啊最後一個問題每次帳幅不能超過3%好不好但是現在帳幅嘛不是11就是12.5我覺得你那個3%都是頂多的啦有沒有"},{"start":8785.828,"end":8786.829,"text":"謝謝柯委員、謝謝卓院長。下一位請林楚英委員質詢。"},{"start":8823.135,"end":8826.556,"text":"謝謝主席。 主席有請卓院長。 請卓院長備詢。林委員好。 院長好。 很開心可以在這邊首次來質詢您喔。 我要問的這個問題之前,我想問一個比較輕鬆的。 您在家裡有養寵物嗎?"},{"start":8826.556,"end":8827.396,"text":"以前有。 以前有養過。 你知道現在的科技已經進步到就是有一些這些"},{"start":8852.846,"end":8852.907,"text":"施養這些"},{"start":8854.728,"end":8856.029,"text":"一、二、三、四、零、零、零、零"},{"start":8884.548,"end":8885.709,"text":"我會開這個頭的原因就是因為我要請"},{"start":8914.043,"end":8936.782,"text":"這個院長來看一下螢幕上面這個是在今年的9月5號的時候媒體臥草他通過社群平台所公佈的這個照片當時我第一時間發現之後我就來詢問國防部怎麼會有一個攝影鏡頭居然是對準了我們的營區外面而且這個影像竟然是你上網你就可以看得到了"},{"start":8937.858,"end":8963.186,"text":"那當時我詢問了國防部之後,國防部告訴我說,哎,委員你誤會了,這其實不是國防部的,其實是在我們的農業部底下的相關監察這個農水路測試的這個鏡頭,可是這個鏡頭居然被轉向了,轉向原因不明,但是經過了我們的了解之後,國防部第一時間的回覆是說,他們找到這個營區,而且馬上就把它遮蔽,那麼就避免"},{"start":8963.746,"end":8965.267,"text":"本席在請農業部相關的單位做了解的時候"},{"start":8992.645,"end":9003.887,"text":"整本的完整的報告居然是10月7號才給我但是到底為什麼這樣的畫面會被取得而且可以被媒體直接就擷取"},{"start":9005.257,"end":9031.297,"text":"這到底有沒有解決而且全國還有多少這種處在一個關鍵的重要的軍事要塞那麼原本他可能是在照農田照一般的我們的民眾或是農民所需要的相關的回覆但是他卻照到了軍營照到了重要的基礎的關鍵的我們的重要的國防要塞部長你怎麼來看這個問題院長怎麼來看這個問題"},{"start":9034.196,"end":9058.185,"text":"首先報告謝謝委員這麼重要的一個提醒這是絕對的疏忽我覺得這個應該立即要馬上杜絕所有現在這種現象第二以後要通令所有跟這個攝影攝影鏡頭有關的各個部門要全面的禁止要用這個例子上全面的禁止再來就針對這一件如果是農業部這個水產署是不是水利署"},{"start":9059.966,"end":9070.086,"text":"那我覺得部長要去了解如果在行政上有這麼輕忽的過程的話行政的追究我覺得應該必須而且要把它廣泛讓全國各部會通通要了解"},{"start":9070.558,"end":9094.956,"text":"因為我會提這個問題就表示說他是媒體先發現然後我又在媒體上發現那顯然是負責要去監視或者是管理這個器材或是影像的人他完全沒有注意到就像我剛剛開頭所提到的這個設備他可能是透過一個網路一個APP或一個系統來做操作那麼是不是系統操作的密碼被破解了"},{"start":9095.376,"end":9117.326,"text":"又或者是密碼設置的太簡單,因為很容易我們的原始密碼就是8088812345678,那麼這個會不會是整體的包括現在農業部底下,農田署、農水署所有的這樣的鏡頭都也有面臨系統密碼設置不安全,或者是太容易被破解的狀況。"},{"start":9119.911,"end":9140.123,"text":"我跟委員報告就是當事件發生的時候我們做了兩件事情第一件事情我要求他們清查所有的原來在監控水路的、浚路的這些攝影機如果他的周遭有一些敏感的這些區域的話那個攝影機應該立即拆除因為最主要的攝影機是針對水閘門他們去做內部使用的一個控管"},{"start":9140.603,"end":9169.642,"text":"那第二個部分就是他們整個攝影機本身的後台他是一個內部的網路就是供內部這些漲水工來使用的那後續我也會他們叫他們來根據我們的那個自動安全的一個管理面跟人員的訓練做一個加強我們希望說就算內部的漲水工在使用的時候包括你的帳號密碼或相關的跟資訊安全有關的話一定要確實落實定期的去更換密碼"},{"start":9170.783,"end":9180.313,"text":"不要用最簡單的一個密碼很容易讓人家去使用這個部分我想我們會立刻的已經在要求了然後他們有提一些相關的報告我們再做進一步的處理"},{"start":9181.13,"end":9209.578,"text":"我要提醒的就是即使他照的是農田是有關於灌溉的整體的狀況來做一些防災或是防旱這樣的一個監視但是同樣的我認為這整體的精力一共發了15天而且相關的部會並沒有積極想要處理是因為本席不斷的透過辦公室追蹤然後才追到這樣的一個結果所以我還是希望雖然說農業部面對國安問題可能不是第一線但是"},{"start":9210.518,"end":9233.115,"text":"面對這樣的事情是不可以有任何的怠慢,應該要積極的來面對跟處理好嗎?會,我們一定會這樣做。好,另外一個跟國安議題相關的就是有關於電動,中國的電動車是不是會是木馬屠城的威脅喔?那麼對於台灣來講我們到底有沒有危機意識?我想本席找了這些報導,不論是美國、澳洲或者是英國,"},{"start":9233.755,"end":9233.775,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":9254.19,"end":9279.931,"text":"的網絡去做第三地甚至於境外的一個操控所以這也是為什麼其實現在許多的國家都認為中國的電動車充滿了木馬屠城的危害但是本席發現的就是其實不只是中國的電動汽車或是自用的汽車現在是不是中國製的公車其實也在全台的北中南到處趴趴走那我們知道其實"},{"start":9281.328,"end":9306.567,"text":"大眾捷運系統的部分公車也算是一個關鍵技術所以我要先問一下院長或是部長就是當中國的電動車現在遍佈全台那我們該如何來處理因為我們都知道經濟部現在界定的中國車產的定義就是中國大陸的品牌嘛然後陸資跟國際品牌合資或者是中國的資金跟國際品牌來做合資"},{"start":9307.307,"end":9307.347,"text":"主席"},{"start":9322.329,"end":9322.349,"text":"二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、47、48、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、"},{"start":9337.406,"end":9355.182,"text":"大眾的關鍵的運輸系統也是關鍵基礎設施的時候那這兩者之間我們到底如何守住國安然後在國內又能夠達到淨零、碳排、電動車的好處那這兩者之間如何取捨 院長"},{"start":9356.503,"end":9383.741,"text":"報告委員我想經濟部在今年7月已經有提出來提升國產化汽車的自治率這樣的一個規範那麼要求國產汽車的自治率門檻要逐年提高那這個比例是以汽車生產的成本結構來計算防止他國的低價產品來傾銷台灣那麼這也是各國的這個政策的趨勢這是第一個第二個呢您可能比較擔心的是資安的問題"},{"start":9384.981,"end":9405.693,"text":"對,那麼這個怕這個車聯網,那我們雖然目前對汽車的這個電腦跟軟體啊,雖然沒有進行這個管制,但是我們有透過在地化比率的來要求,那麼在承諾書說明若使用內含大陸製晶片的零件,將如何管制資訊安全呢,整這個規範來控制它。"},{"start":9407.614,"end":9428.866,"text":"所以目前有從中國進來的中華汽車、山陽汽車、福特汽車他們都表示他們的軟體並不會主動聯網而且相關的資料中心在臺灣都是獨立建置跟運作所以目前委員所擔心資安這個問題應該是不存在的"},{"start":9429.554,"end":9431.035,"text":"這個我們這個會馬上在內部來做討論跟研擬"},{"start":9459.478,"end":9488.504,"text":"然後跟這個委員做一個詳細的報告好因為這個事情他已經存在了我知道已經在各個地方政府上路的公車那麼到底有沒有資安一律也許必須要去重視他你第一時間你說要完全的才剛上路又要他不能走也不太可能但是就像我們講到的這些中國製的電動車有沒有車聯網有沒有可能成為境外可以操控的所謂木馬塗層器的不定時炸彈因為我們知道"},{"start":9489.164,"end":9491.786,"text":"是,我們馬上回去以後馬上來盤查一下,然後把這個結論來跟委員做報告。"},{"start":9515.299,"end":9538.519,"text":"那麼另外當然就是我們提到的如果歐美各國對於中國製的電動車都不能上路的時候那麼接下來後續呢?我們不能說自用車不能中國電動車中國產的中國車中國品牌不能進來但是中國製的公車的電動車在我們全國的境內跑這會不會是開了另外一扇小門?"},{"start":9543.904,"end":9557.937,"text":"三點跟委員報告第一個燃油車我們要求自治率是保護國內的汽車產業跟零組件的產業希望不要受到衝擊那麼在電動車的方面我們是要求的更多是因為他的資安穩定"},{"start":9559.574,"end":9573.538,"text":"甚至它的低價傾銷那這個是現在國際的潮流也針對這個事情來處理的那電動車有兩個已經進來的部分剛剛部長講的我們會加強從內部的管理它的這個物聯網能不能就有效的評斷這個要處理"},{"start":9575.319,"end":9589.984,"text":"再來新要進來的我們會對於電池的要求特別特別的嚴厲因為在世界上闡說太多電池發生燃爆等等不應該的有個安全狀況我們會在這裡做處理這樣處理的話對未來的我們會加嚴來管制已經進來的就部長剛剛說的我們從內部會加嚴來管控"},{"start":9594.585,"end":9618.334,"text":"好謝謝這個院長這麼清晰的一個方向跟說明喔這個對於我們所謂的基礎關鍵設施把大眾藝術系統也放進去這個對於全民的安全是非常重要的最後一個問題也是本席最近發現的也是跟電動車相關那就是當我們有要求就像部長所說的像院長所提的我們有國產車的自治率之後那麼關於車用電腦或者是軟體我們要怎麼樣做規範喔因為"},{"start":9619.855,"end":9647.432,"text":"在這個零組件的部分其實中國還是我們最大的零組件的進口高達了百分之三十二、三十三那麼金額更是到7月累積了兩百三十五點九億元那麼很多時候是車子不可能百分之百都是國產自製必須要有零組件的進口可是如果當整個中國成為我們重要的汽車零組件進口的"},{"start":9648.092,"end":9661.591,"text":"大方向或者是說相關的重要的關鍵技術的時候我們該怎麼辦那麼面對這樣一個狀況喔院長這邊跟部長這邊有沒有一個更通盤的想法是可以降低對於中國零組件的依賴"},{"start":9663.237,"end":9678.922,"text":"我們現在是有對這些零組件我們要求它漸漸的提高擴廠化的標準那國內的廠商因為這個量的問題所以他們對開這個模具會有一些抗拒"},{"start":9679.682,"end":9695.824,"text":"不過我們現在正式的告訴他們這個就是一個政策希望這個業者能夠同意那最近的溝通的這個結果他們也願意所以這個我想在未來我們這個會從中國進來的這個零組件會越來越少甚至一次零"},{"start":9696.496,"end":9714.023,"text":"好尤其是像電腦或者是聯網相關的系統啊藍牙喇叭等等這個都要非常注意這個會加強雙邊的驗證的關係我們不容許太多資安問題進來那我們也有一些零件去到中國大陸那雙邊一定要在平等的架構底下來互同連交流"},{"start":9714.554,"end":9714.574,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":9745.33,"end":9751.301,"text":"謝謝林委員、謝謝卓院長下一位我們請林德福委員質詢"},{"start":9776.018,"end":9776.798,"text":"主席、江戶院長、卓院長、郭部長"},{"start":9803.223,"end":9803.243,"text":"國務委員"},{"start":9824.378,"end":9831.522,"text":"公務出國報告還沒有看到郭部長6月美國出國的報告。 經濟部聯絡人說郭部長的出國報告是密件,對此本席我也沒有打算索取該密件。"},{"start":9851.958,"end":9876.036,"text":"此次希望說經濟部要端出具體招商的一個成果不要只有畫大筆那本席查了一下經濟部投審會7月到9月的新聞稿也沒有看到說來自美國這個新的一個投資那本席再強調一次請問部長何時會有來自美國的新投資呢?"},{"start":9878.033,"end":9895.184,"text":"報告委員,我們大概就是去強化原本在臺灣上一個會期那他們在這個有意願來臺灣的這些廠商,包括這個輝達,包括AMD,包括這個"},{"start":9900.06,"end":9900.14,"text":"那會不會來投資臺灣?"},{"start":9926.465,"end":9945.467,"text":"我們努力我們一定要努力因為他有兩個選項一個他要去馬來西亞一個他要去印度因為他的老闆是印度人所以我們是希望他留在臺灣臺灣的優勢要讓他充分的了解因為臺灣在半導體這個領域裡面"},{"start":9946.749,"end":9947.469,"text":"我希望有一個好的成果"},{"start":9971.042,"end":9981.627,"text":"那個卓院長本席是支持綠能發展風電太陽以及光電都贊成那當初民進黨政府推動離岸風電國產化我這邊念一段經濟部的新聞稿"},{"start":9988.811,"end":10004.251,"text":"經濟部說,我國離岸風電基礎設施尚未完備,而且尚未建構國內本土產業鏈,設置成本相對比較高,故需要明確目標。"},{"start":10007.382,"end":10023.515,"text":"目標量及短購電價來吸引國內外業者來投入才能創造經濟的一個規模。 聽到這邊社會大眾都會把離岸風電短購匯率跟國產化連在一起。 當初經濟部說三招可以把關而且確保風電國產化的罰款然後砍短購匯率"},{"start":10036.909,"end":10055.453,"text":"以及解約。 到了經濟部,郭部長您來主政經濟部上任以後就替風電業者大開方便之門。 只要風電開發商在如期併網完工前提下,國產化問題不受約束。"},{"start":10059.775,"end":10088.158,"text":"臺電8月發電成本資料顯示向民間風力發電業者購電每度高達6.59元等於差不多6.6元那風電業者荷包賺滿滿那政府卻想想辦法來替這些風電業者免除罰款不堪等賭的匯率這難道不是變相圖利嗎那個有什麼看法"},{"start":10089.362,"end":10115.018,"text":"報告委員,風電這個命題是這樣,就是說我們這個在過去確實是如你指證的,有準售價格。那麼也在希望鼓勵這個國產的這個廠商,那麼能夠努力的讓他有競爭力。但是我們在兩個月前,受到這個國外的廠商到歐盟去這個WTO去告我們。"},{"start":10119.06,"end":10126.31,"text":"舉花告我們當初為什麼沒有把他設定好呢你說國產化才會6.59"},{"start":10132.87,"end":10155.61,"text":"對這是以前那現在呢這個不一樣因為已經進步到這個階段所以他們外國的這個廠商啊他們發現說這個國廠化是這個對他們來講這個在交易上面那不然的話為什麼不公開雜標一定要本購本購就是溢價嘛沒有那個是過去對不對過去這個就是有弊端嘛"},{"start":10156.17,"end":10173.349,"text":"對阿我們現在改了我來了以後就改了改了以後就是公開不是他們去講我們就配合那個部長因為這短購是溢價當初阿我認為說公開招標很低兩塊兩毛二但是短購阿"},{"start":10175.049,"end":10183.296,"text":"你說要國產化結果現在又沒有辦法做阿你又幫他開方便之門這個齁講實在話為什麼台電會虧損連年這個不是沒有原因阿"},{"start":10188.319,"end":10211.509,"text":"因為電幾乎到現在你沒有辦法儲存你沒有用的話幾乎都是流掉那流掉結果你看我們冬天有東北季風你不要用那麼多電它一直轉花多少電你要吸收多少夏天需要用大量電的時候結果風氣不轉"},{"start":10214.092,"end":10223.344,"text":"這是裡面當初沒有考量到所以說現在為什麼臺電一直在虧損當中越來越嚴重 郭部長我相信你應該很清楚"},{"start":10224.315,"end":10246.037,"text":"我們現在討論的都是第三期的封店,前面剛才所指正的準購大概就是第一期、第二期。但是我們現在是第三期,我們現在三之一、三之二就是回到自由交易的狀況。"},{"start":10247.54,"end":10266.394,"text":"那因為那三之一在之前就已經開票了那三之二是最近才開的郭部長我跟你講我當初就一直質疑啊這個裡面齁是現在台電董事長叫曾文森由他來主導齁而且你一主導你開放先短夠短夠七成欸欸標20年欸"},{"start":10269.016,"end":10277.353,"text":"他花多少你一定要吸收多少難怪臺電會虧損年年阿對不對結果剩三成三成公開招標"},{"start":10279.307,"end":10295.502,"text":"兩塊兩毛二,但是你賺夠價錢那麼高,溢價七成,剩下三成才做什麼?剩下三成才公開招標,標20年,所以說為什麼台電現在一直在虧損當中?我認為這個問題很大,我們現在因為需要綠電,所以我一定要全力"},{"start":10303.109,"end":10316.117,"text":"讓它能夠如期完工所以我們改變了一些方法希望在這個符合WTO的架構之下然後能夠讓這個豐電的成本能夠幫助他們降低讓他們產出來的價能夠賣給臺灣的業者的時候"},{"start":10320,"end":10320.12,"text":"講實在話啦"},{"start":10344.488,"end":10368.293,"text":"我是聽不下去啦我認為國會議員就是要幫我們民眾發聲為什麼現在電你看漲了12.5%而且又要行政院編列預算年年來補貼台電這個不是沒有原因因你會合然後會合以後你變成說要綠能綠能又跟不上而且價格又那麼高"},{"start":10369.313,"end":10396.107,"text":"當然他有一個效應就變成年年要虧損。臺電以前有這麼嚴重嗎?沒有吧?這個跟委員報告一下,我們也要針對國產化的問題,對國內參與這個綠能發電、風機發電的整個國內的業者表示感謝,他們也確實承擔了相當多的責任。所以我們在建設分作三個部分來講,第一個部分,31的部分我們已經在契約在走,已經是照這樣不變了。"},{"start":10396.927,"end":10426.367,"text":"三、二的因為他現在先到國際上的訴訟會增加了一些條件或增加了一些要求那國內的業者也希望能夠儘速的達到這樣的過程但是如果說因為國內業者接不上來所以在時針上有延誤的話那我們可以做一些調整但我們還是鼓勵國內業者能夠上來第三期我們除了讓大家可以公平交易之外我們更希望國內業者往外走剛剛部長講的增加國際競爭力去國外發展因為國內的市場到底有限"},{"start":10426.707,"end":10433.609,"text":"主委因為自2023年到現在政府已經編列給台電增資2500億元。 議後條例撥補500億再加上在立法院即將要審查2000億的撥補總計台電增資以及撥補的累積金額達到5000億。"},{"start":10450.192,"end":10476.158,"text":"能源政策不檢討臺電虧損最後還是全民買單大家清清楚楚的電價的問題本期支持以核養綠那民進黨政府不要抱著緩和意識形態的神主牌綠能比例沒有達標也不願意以核養綠來拼命的燒煤燃氣還有火力發電等就佔了八成"},{"start":10477.499,"end":10495.112,"text":"根據臺電給本席的資料2023年燃氣發電的購電成本每度是3.62元合能每度是1.39元3.62跟1.39你看落差多大如果2023年臺電合能發電量跟2015年一樣是351億度則天然氣發電則可以少"},{"start":10505.479,"end":10505.979,"text":"主委長你有什麼看法?第一個會員報告"},{"start":10528.911,"end":10541.49,"text":"走向非核家園這個入法是在委員任內之前在通過的這是我們的法律這不是民進黨的神主牌電影法裡面就這樣寫的要朝向非核家園這是法律不是神主牌"},{"start":10542.818,"end":10567.012,"text":"但是現在我們立法院很多不管在朝在野﹖但是法律現在還是在的﹖這部法律現在還是在的﹖還在﹖對﹖可以改啊﹖可以修啊﹖你們要提出來啊﹖對不對﹖你不能說錯誤的政策﹖現在核電是綠能了呢﹖在修法﹖是不是修法之前我們現在就是多元的發展綠能﹖希望能夠進行這個科技的儲能﹖"},{"start":10568.947,"end":10569.808,"text":"二次能源轉型當中重要的目標"},{"start":10587.078,"end":10587.718,"text":"一、三、九元﹚"},{"start":10606.644,"end":10607.024,"text":"那個 卓院長"},{"start":10627.045,"end":10647.936,"text":"媒體報導英國在9月30日宣布七大工業國組織的先例成為第一個終止南梅發電的國家,我們南梅占50%。因應2050年近年排汰的目標,世界各國的趨勢就是擁抱乾淨的人員,包括核電在內,國際認可核能為綠電,"},{"start":10651.619,"end":10669.478,"text":"國際能源總署強調世界需要核電來減少排碳的放出來此外美國在20多個國家共同發表《核能宣言》共同努力2050年全球核能容量增加為三倍的目標"},{"start":10671.858,"end":10681.222,"text":"每日韓都大舉發展核電,難道民進黨政府的人員政策不需要做通牌性檢討嗎?現在我們目前優先幫臺灣出口的廠商爭取綠電,因為現在核能還不是屬於綠電,它是一個clean energy,它是一個乾淨的能源。"},{"start":10696.567,"end":10704.393,"text":"那我們現在先滿足這個綠電的需求然後再來就趕快的來滿足2050年的零碳這兩個都是不同時間的重點謝謝林委員謝謝卓院長下一位我們請嚴寬恆委員質詢"},{"start":10733.734,"end":10747.298,"text":"立法院江副院長大會主席我們各位列席官員主席有請行政院我們左院長請左院長列席委員好 院長好左院長"},{"start":10762.678,"end":10787.443,"text":"現在因為受到極端氣候不只是颱風包括我們全台各地經常性的突發性豪雨瞬間一樣都會造成淹水釀災尤其是本席的選區在台中的海縣旁邊緊鄰的就是台中盆地的大都山台地如果剛好遇到海水漲潮"},{"start":10788.263,"end":10788.463,"text":"臨時提案委員："},{"start":10806.36,"end":10828.311,"text":"本席在這邊要先感謝中央跟市府過去共同的努力,讓這個南山解水溝一期、二期能夠順利的完工。大渡山溪路沿著海線地區因為地勢低窪,排水不易,過去曾經嚴重的淹水,在中央跟地方政府的通力合作下,一期、二期的工程總長度6.5公里,經費"},{"start":10832.779,"end":10857.79,"text":"分別是26億跟24億那現今主要河道已經完成中央補助的部分第一期補助21億那第二期補助14億但是工程不能虎頭蛇尾因為南山節水溝它的完整性是足以影響整個台中市一個中部地區的這個出海口"},{"start":10858.598,"end":10877.268,"text":"海鮮淹水,市區必定會淹大水。 海水系統做得好,絕對是防災的第一基礎。 那尤其我們10月2號、3號、4號經歷了山陀和颱風的一個嚴重的肆虐。 那我想南山解水溝第三期工程"},{"start":10878.783,"end":10906.497,"text":"在上游部分要開闢北四溪及竹林北溪段,總整治的長度2.9公里,那初估經費需要達65億,那現在剛好是汛期,每年的5月到11月這7個月的時間是臺灣雨量最豐沛的時候,加上梅雨台風季節,所以本席在這邊要請教院長,針對這個第三期工程65億,包括土地"},{"start":10907.304,"end":10907.424,"text":"主席"},{"start":10914.997,"end":10941.241,"text":"院長是不是能夠協助用特別補助款來協助請水利組這邊也多分攤一些經費首先謝謝委員剛剛說明在去年完成的第1、2期已經有效改善降低了淹水的風險那第三期現在工程還在進行延長當中但是裡面遭受到一些阻力跟障礙這個部長非常清楚我請部長來說什麼阻力報告委員"},{"start":10941.721,"end":10962.142,"text":"第三期的工程,因為這個山坡地是比較高層的因素,所以這個需要深挖,要設計用這個相衡的方式,剛好經過民房的下方,所以遭到這個地方強烈的抗議。"},{"start":10963.984,"end":10992.908,"text":"我們已經請這個臺中市政府持續的評估執行效益或者替代方案或者替代方案所以現在應該不是委員你指教的這個預算的問題而是那個通過的問題不是這個路線已經經過無數次的討論那現在就是說我們上游是在薩路地區從這個清泉崗機場一直銜接到這個中火所以這個部分"},{"start":10993.484,"end":11012.025,"text":"需要經過的沿線這些居民我們也經過多次的協商還有這個公開這個說明會、公聽會等等那現在居民反倒是我們現在我們的市民認為說如果第三期工程沒有加速進行未來遭受到了這樣子的一個這個天災或者是強降雨"},{"start":11012.352,"end":11013.152,"text":"三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":11029.941,"end":11031.542,"text":"經濟部將持續跟台中市政府"},{"start":11048.672,"end":11049.734,"text":"三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間"},{"start":11064.675,"end":11066.496,"text":"應該不是預算的問題,而是那個路線的問題,要不要改。"},{"start":11090.707,"end":11093.269,"text":"現在就是市政府不敢提為什麼因為這是預算的問題"},{"start":11118.482,"end":11119.243,"text":"臺中市防洪治水核道"},{"start":11138.717,"end":11157.482,"text":"主要的這個南山解鎖溝把它完成,請院長在這邊答應我好不好。那布裡面也要看地方提出來的計畫是不完整需求是不是急迫,那是不是要積極來處理,一定要這個計畫我們才能再做,不是說這裡答應就可以做,如果說這個地方的需求強烈而急迫,而且"},{"start":11158.302,"end":11158.422,"text":"臨時提案委員："},{"start":11176.402,"end":11200.957,"text":"這些預算都往南部或者是其他受創地方 那我們中部地區是望梅止渴我們希望說真的要做預先的防範更加重要我們不是在比較我們只是希望說你把原來的預先的這些治水防範把它做好那它未來就可能免於遭受到這樣的一個危害所以在這邊提出說那這樣子預算對我們行政院來講不是一個太大的困難"},{"start":11201.577,"end":11214.853,"text":"所以我們明年編了551億,裡面很多是系統性的治水的工程的這個預算。當然啦當然啦,因為我們區域內很多的系統治水都要做。通過之後我們就能照計畫的優先順序跟它的緊迫性,我們就逐一來編。"},{"start":11215.56,"end":11243.872,"text":"跟委員報告,絕對沒有地域的分別,也不會特別照顧哪些地方,全國都是一樣的。所以我們這是為我們台中市民請命,因為整個台中市的一個出來口,那如果說造成日後,我們是為這個防範於未來,不希望它發生一個重大的危害,好,院長。我們的目的是一樣的。對對對對,好,那我想再請教,院長,部長,你們有沒有聽過北風與太陽的故事,一手一眼?"},{"start":11245.396,"end":11270.957,"text":"是穿外套的事情小學三年級的國語課本裡面寫的故事的內容就是說北風跟太陽他們兩個就是說要進行一場比賽決定誰的能力比較強那北風就開始對這些路上的行人就是他們的比賽就是說要把行人的外套大衣把它吹掉把它拿掉但是北風他就用他強勁的這個北風來"},{"start":11274.728,"end":11293.617,"text":"他越用力吹但是路上的行人就是把衣服越拉得更緊因為越冷就穿得更緊但是反觀太陽他用他溫暖的陽光照射在人民的身上那陽光越是越強烈他會覺得炎熱反倒是這樣子他把外套給脫掉那這個故事就是說"},{"start":11294.639,"end":11312.595,"text":"要告訴我們就是說,與其全力的控制對方,不如放手,讓對方心悅誠服,讓他心有口紅啦。所以說,當然因為現在錯誤的政策,那就像北風跟太陽一樣,你過度的吹捧這種太陽能光電,還有這個風電,"},{"start":11315.838,"end":11342.468,"text":"吉利的去排斥同樣是綠電的核能發電本席認為這兩個故事很像越加的干預就會造成更多的問題那我想經濟部長、部長、郭部長你也提過就是說核能是乾淨的能源那世界各國也公認核電是綠電那台灣缺電是不爭的事實尤其缺綠電對不對剛剛你也提到台灣缺的是綠電"},{"start":11344.005,"end":11350.97,"text":"臺灣海峽臺灣海峽是一個非常好的風場但是離岸風電卻改變了整個漁場那請教院長你知道全臺灣最大的離岸風機基地在哪裡嗎離岸風機在彰化臺中臺中還是彰化"},{"start":11374.212,"end":11395.178,"text":"我講沿海地區髒冰,這個都很… 風場是在髒化,沒有錯,台中髒化,但是這個風機的基地是在台中港,在台中港。所以報告委員,我們不論是,我們發展綠能齁,北風跟太陽都需要,風吹動這個風機啊,太陽照亮這個電板,所以都需要,都需要。 對嘛,所以我們什麼電都要,尤其是綠電,對不對。"},{"start":11396.218,"end":11410.139,"text":"我跟這個委員報告一下就是現在要求綠電最大是美國的這個MicrosoftMicrosoft他不同意這個核電是綠電他只認為他是一個乾淨的能源"},{"start":11411.209,"end":11435.565,"text":"所以我們現在因為出口很多的這個公司啊,他是給Microsoft的這個市場。那一樣的道理,以現在台灣的綠電是不是2025、2026都已經被台積電買掉了?對不對?其他的護國大山也買不到這樣子的綠電啊?我們現在跟委員報告,我們現在就是趕快讓這個太陽能光電跟風力還有小水力發電,讓他趕快上來。"},{"start":11436.926,"end":11464.661,"text":"上來的時候我們希望到2030年能夠滿足這個30%是綠電這樣子的一個市場需求所以我認為這個目前我們先把這個綠電的這個問題先解決然後馬上解決這個碳因為2050年也迫在眉睫所以我們要解決這個零碳所以剛才您所指導的這個我們都會放在這個思考的這個範疇之內"},{"start":11466.042,"end":11489.691,"text":"部長媒體報導就是說9月23號約見這個開發商那釋出只要如期並往國產化可鬆綁的訊息那被業者稱為923之亂那部長在9月11號回應這個國產化限制已經8年差不多了那會朝開放的方向來進行所以現在這些"},{"start":11491.351,"end":11517.426,"text":"尤其是CIP總裁他說臺灣GDP是被許多護國大山傳產資產產業撐起都需要大宗綠電但是2025、2026的綠電都賣給了台積電臺灣不缺電但缺綠電那更媒體也說風電國產化還能走下去嗎那針對這一批評跟這一些我想請教"},{"start":11518.257,"end":11538.926,"text":"他們都致函給經濟部陳情認為說這個朔旗既往的變更違反信賴保護原則那我現在給你時間不多啦那可不可以稍微講一下解釋一下部長是 報告委員這個信賴保護原則就是政府一貫這個施政的這個基本原則不是我不是要問這個我要問說你要如何去因應後續"},{"start":11540.63,"end":11558.537,"text":"因為我現在的目的是這樣子,就是說我到2028年是不會缺綠電,所以過去delay的這個風電,我要讓他speed up,讓他快速起來,所以我們現在是幫助這個國產的公司告訴他們你有沒有什麼"},{"start":11559.517,"end":11587.749,"text":"需要經濟部協助的讓他可以成本降低的那麼可以這個滿足這些開發商在這個時間裡面能夠同時能夠這個掛網所以我想這個剛開始這個三之一的這些廠商他們擔心說啊這個國產化取消沒有取消他我們是幫助他們能夠降低成本我們希望讓風電的成本能夠繼續往下向"},{"start":11589.33,"end":11589.43,"text":"主席"},{"start":11605.575,"end":11634.102,"text":"偏偏輕易的鬆綁已經公告了政策,然後呢﹖對於相信政府而陸續投入數十億上百億的這些國內的廠商,請而以堪﹖不是,我們現在沒有說取消,八年前的離岸封建的這個政策是否不再延續,所以要你說清楚的是這個部分。 委員,我在這裡跟你報告,就是說三之一,我們就是維持什麼樣的規範,什麼樣的契約,就是按照契約照走。"},{"start":11635.171,"end":11652.437,"text":"三之一就這樣,三之二通案還是按照規範,那如果他有需要我們協助的,我們來幫助他,來解決他的問題。我們並沒有說這個地方開放國產化,因為只有三之三我們講說這個會朝國產化開放的這個方向來努力。"},{"start":11675.352,"end":11691.821,"text":"好,謝謝言委員。剛剛言委員提到關於臺中市南山節水溝的這部分,他的意思應該是臺中市政委一定會提出計畫,到時候請行政院能夠優先協助。好,謝謝言委員,謝謝卓院長。"},{"start":11693.876,"end":11711.71,"text":"報告院會現在在議場二樓旁聽席的是臺北市東山高中的同學我們在此歡迎你們的到訪謝謝報告院會上午的質詢到此為止下午2點30分我們繼續開會進行經濟組織質詢現在休息"},{"start":20090.879,"end":20093.251,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":20453.174,"end":20456.798,"text":"你好,是,你好,我們2點半準時開會,那就請委員2點20來議場這邊,謝謝,掰掰。喂?喔,好好,OK,好。"},{"start":21603.939,"end":21604.7,"text":"現在我們繼續開會進行經濟組織質詢。接下來請李燕秀委員質詢。麻煩請卓院長備詢。"},{"start":21633.324,"end":21653.761,"text":"禮委員好院長好,我剛剛看你緩慢的走進來,固態滿山的樣子。我還是要跟您講,無論是韓院長或者是你,或者三黨的黨團總召都辛苦了。剛剛中午的朝野和解飯吃的結果是在您的預料當中嗎?"},{"start":21656.043,"end":21682.334,"text":"謝謝委員,我剛剛沒有步履蠻山,我還是非常的輕快的走進來。好,輕快的走進來。那這個結果是您預料當中的嗎?沒有,這個是一個營養午餐。營養午餐,那結果呢?全台灣的民眾要看的是結果。結果就是我們從一個好的方向開始,然後走向另外一個新啟動,希望能夠啟動新的一個草野協商的過程。"},{"start":21683.323,"end":21697.021,"text":"朝野協商的過程,那有共識的地方在哪裡?我從媒體上看到說我還沒有機會問韓院長,我也沒有機會問我們總召。 共識就是繼續去從協商中得到大家已經多增加對彼此了解之後,"},{"start":21698.726,"end":21722.062,"text":"院長,我相信你從政的資歷這麼久,你不會不清楚,協商就是大家有機會達成某一些的共識跟結果。可能協商的結果不是每一個人都滿意,但是最起碼可以讓我們現在政治的僵局,預算沒辦法付為的僵局,有機會達到某一些共識可以往下走。"},{"start":21722.682,"end":21722.702,"text":"二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50"},{"start":21747.124,"end":21767.74,"text":"賴總統的院紀協調的部分他好像不願意召開那或者是請求另外一方你再拜託賴總統來開院紀協調有沒有這個可能性總統有從憲法賦予總統的權限他自然會去處理但我認為本件在大院跟行政院之間就總預算的問題"},{"start":21770.011,"end":21788.85,"text":"我跟韓院長之間來拜託三個黨團繼續往一個大家都能夠理解的方向去走。怎麼繼續?我剛剛看的結果這個參會是破局,大家沒有共識。我們都希望預算趕快復為。委員你在議會在立法院很久,沒有一件事情是剛剛才談過現在馬上有結果。"},{"start":21790.231,"end":21809.749,"text":"對啦,但是你們很急嘛,我現在也在替你著急嘛,我現在也替你著急,所以但是要把那個大家想辦法要有共識的點,對起碼要大家可以聚焦來談嘛,但是現在好像沒有辦法,所以我才請教您說,院長。 充分了解雙方的立場,雖然我知道"},{"start":21810.45,"end":21837.213,"text":"很多先進委員也講過好幾次我也在這個地方表達過很多次原則性的問題但是能夠這樣子面對面的沒有時間的限制在比較輕鬆的狀況之下來交談所以要繼續開就對了你們要繼續 非常寶貴的經驗我想從這個經驗就可以繼續往下發展但是重點還是要預算要有機會 共識桌要復違啊因為你們也急著要是你們急著要審預算啊委員您不急嗎"},{"start":21838.247,"end":21844.449,"text":"國人更急,國家更急。院長,我覺得,我不知道賴總統有沒有跟你討論這件事情。我覺得要有共識也不困難,國民黨團有授權給總召跟書記長,在某一些程度底下大家是可以溝通的。所以我剛才才請教院長,"},{"start":21863.633,"end":21884.858,"text":"因為可能請總統出來,因為我不認為進法補償條例,大家再多編列一點,或者用其他追加緊預算,怎麼樣處理,大家不能夠解決。我覺得這都不是很大一筆什麼樣的數字。所以說我覺得大家就那些問題,其實不是說不能抽腿,我們在預算,在議會,你也當過市議員,你也當過立法委員,"},{"start":21887.159,"end":21902.441,"text":"我覺得不是說零和遊戲,就是有辦法可以去溝通,但是如果每一個人都硬幫幫那一塊的話,那就走不下去。所以我剛剛才問你說,我覺得如果去吃這場參會,你沒有一些籌碼,你沒有一些授權,"},{"start":21904.229,"end":21930.405,"text":"那我覺得就很難談得下去,但我也會覺得說,院長你做得很辛苦很可憐,因為如果你沒有被授權,然後總統又不給你這個院計調節的可能性,那你又不能完全不能退,或用後面追加減預算的再來去做補償措施的話,那這個預算怎麼走得下去,這個是我覺得院長你很辛苦的地方。"},{"start":21930.919,"end":21958.781,"text":"我原因多慮了我跟總統報告過我跟韓院長相約這件事情跟黨團見面總統也在各方得到這樣的訊息他對我的講法就成如昨天總統在國慶大會上的講法一樣他很高興看到韓院長跟我能夠對朝野這個和解的方式就是協商的過程繼續去做努力他很高興看到這一點這就是總統唯一而且是最重要的態度"},{"start":21959.341,"end":21982.989,"text":"有談,院長我要提醒你啦,有談要有結果,因為大家要看的是一個結果論。 我不認為在野黨都是硬梆梆的一塊,我們也了解…… 我也不是硬梆梆的一塊。對啊,所以嘛,所以我本來以為有機會至少要達到一點共識。 不要在這一刻都急著要我說出什麼話來,因為剛剛跟韓院長的講話,很多,我們還要再做很多的努力。"},{"start":21983.629,"end":22001.001,"text":"我尊重我尊重我希望我希望有好的結果那但是我不希望這個院長你被卡在上不上下不下又沒有被總統授權然後他又不願意幫你開院去協調然後你又沒有任何籌碼可以來跟在野黨我說我不能說籌碼我應該說在預算上後面違法編列的部分怎麼樣做補救措施"},{"start":22007.705,"end":22008.707,"text":"但是無論如何快樂的人看到希望,憂慮多的人會看到遺憾。"},{"start":22019.169,"end":22037.25,"text":"我當然希望看到院長,因為你不是一個不能溝通的院長,但是我希望提出來的方向是可以解決的方案,大家可以走得下去。因為今天是經濟委員會的質詢,我還是要請問一下有關於我們的能源政策的問題。"},{"start":22038.711,"end":22061.698,"text":"能源政策對國家來說實在太重要了。 院長你看到包括在今年6月5號的時候當時國部長提到未來可以在上個會期未來對於能源配比的調整還有一定的目標跟方向。 經濟部能源署也說未來10年每一年至少成長率用電的需求會成長2.8%到3%。"},{"start":22064.039,"end":22064.059,"text":"二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、47、48、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、"},{"start":22080.612,"end":22105.526,"text":"媒體也在講,包括我今天早上也有看到部長你也回答柯正委員說,如果對於台電的補貼到位,但是我們仍舊在漲電,電價還是不斷地漲,就是你離開的時候。部長我先請教你,你講這句話,呃,代表你覺得這個位置坐起來你是有點倦情嗎?還是很委屈?我早上已經請部長不讓再講這種話了。"},{"start":22108.711,"end":22110.078,"text":"院長 我再請教部長"},{"start":22113.097,"end":22140.646,"text":"副部長你直接回答你不要你不要去管院長講什麼其實我覺得這這這這件事情其實就就是在你整個在很多議題的想法特別能源政策上您來自民間企業產業界我相信總統看到您的在產業界的能力找您進來所以做該做的事說該說的話所以第一時間您提到說臺電未來不再撥補要想辦法自己賺錢自負盈虧這個是一個產業界的說法"},{"start":22141.846,"end":22158.197,"text":"我來跟委員報告,我的意思是說這2000億的撥補主要是調整臺電的財務情況。那麼在未來的電價的決定,漲不漲當然不是我來決定,漲不漲價是由電價委員會來決定的。但是我必須要創造一個,是電價審議委員會決定的。"},{"start":22168.223,"end":22171.327,"text":"您從能源政策 這一連串進來做部長這個位置 從能源政策開始"},{"start":22184.152,"end":22211.153,"text":"媒體在批評說如果經濟不窮的只剩下漲價跟補助這兩件事情而沒有去思考到整個上層發電結構是不是合理因為電價成本跟我們能源政策的配比很重要燃氣很貴但你現在民進黨要非核家園然後火力發電又在燒廢用愛發電用廢發電所以我們能源配比的政策到底要不要調整你有沒有想法"},{"start":22213.535,"end":22228.669,"text":"我們的能源政策當然我們現在 能源配比 能源配比 蔡英文有50%、30%、20%賴政府在你底下 你的能源政策 院長你有沒有想法 沒有 還是蔡規賴誰"},{"start":22231.57,"end":22231.59,"text":"二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、"},{"start":22246.664,"end":22247.025,"text":"主席"},{"start":22261.561,"end":22264.964,"text":"我們現在新的這個能源的配比是延續這個蔡總統的能源政策然後我們稍微做一個修正我們現在先把煤"},{"start":22285.996,"end":22312.431,"text":"讓他能夠降為零這個是我們的一個作為所以我們要用綠電來補重點是說你現在的再生能源齁今年直到10嘛我看最後一個表有一個直到10嘛顯然是跳票的不過因為蔡英文跳票因為他已經不在這個位置上那我們現在的20人就是跳票那怎麼辦呢我跟委員報告這個他"},{"start":22314.96,"end":22324.552,"text":"本來是2025年可以達到20%但是因為這個俄烏戰爭的原因所以讓它是要delay那我們會在2026年的11月達成這個標但是我的目標還是在2030年"},{"start":22332.421,"end":22348.912,"text":"二〇三〇年的時候我們讓綠電能夠滿足臺灣的氣味能夠的需求我現在看到你所有的用電規劃都是到二〇三〇年你曾經也是說目前所有的布局都是到二〇三〇年院長卓院長"},{"start":22350.575,"end":22375.327,"text":"那總統應該有想要爭取下一屆連任,下一屆連任2028也是,下一屆總統是2028做到2032嘛,所以我就覺得很奇怪,能源政策、能源配比、供電、國際產業要留住AI產業這些大公司,你絕對不是說我的佈局到2030年就夠了,這個對國家經濟政策來說是重要的,不論是下一屆總統是誰,繼續是賴總統或者是其他人,"},{"start":22378.689,"end":22398.656,"text":"我覺得用電都不會是佈局到2030所以絕對不是2030之後不干我的事蔡英文可以這麼說但是我相信賴總統跟左院長您不會這麼說所以這個佈局的說法是很奇怪的我最近看到包括Google在馬來西亞也設置花了20億設置場然後台積電也到美國花了650億美金也設置場就是說我覺得一個成熟的產業"},{"start":22406.238,"end":22423.377,"text":"他要看的是10年20年30年他把公司花上百億投資在這個地方他是有長遠性的所以你們講2030年布局到2030年這件事情是外界完全沒有辦法接受的所以你身為一個產業界來的部長你講布局到2030年"},{"start":22424.949,"end":22435.373,"text":"我覺得這件事情是讓外界、產業界想說臺灣的經濟博弈怎麼會這樣?那總理長你能接受這樣的說法嗎?我們現在佈局只到2030年嗎?美國商會跟歐洲商會可以接受你這樣的說法嗎?我們是在講綠電"},{"start":22447.338,"end":22463.939,"text":"二零三零年,所以我們才用二零三年是一個目標,二零五零年也是一個目標,所以我們是分段設置目標在裡面。 議長,你的說法我在媒體上都可以看得到,但是我都需要提醒你們,二零三零年之後,"},{"start":22465.22,"end":22492.835,"text":"你們現在都只保證2030年之前都不缺電至少2030年2030年之後的電怎麼樣拿出來給大家看說服產業界說服臺灣的我們都有計畫因為蓋一個電廠要6年好那我繼續再問蓋一個電廠要6年好那我就要問院長因為我剩下51秒我時間真的剩下不多院長很多事情要做最壞的打算但是也要做最好的準備"},{"start":22493.815,"end":22495.696,"text":"我了解委員的想法我了解,我跟委員報告兩件事情"},{"start":22516.824,"end":22518.485,"text":"二、三、未來會不會是一個備用的選項,現在就要開始討論。"},{"start":22554.072,"end":22556.274,"text":"謝謝李燕燮委員質詢,也謝謝我們左院長和相關部會所長的備詢。接下來,我們請登記第7號,邱義營委員質詢。"},{"start":22583.39,"end":22589.454,"text":"謝謝主席,我是不是請一下卓院長?麻煩再請卓院長備詢。是,邱委員好。院長好。院長,這個剛剛的午餐吃得怎麼樣?中午有沒有吃飽?根據"},{"start":22605.305,"end":22620.154,"text":"科總召、副總召跟黃國昌總召他們都好像認為這個是第一次由韓院長跟我兩位一起跟各黨團的三長一起共餐共同討論事情我們的氣氛"},{"start":22621.215,"end":22647.833,"text":"是相當的不錯的,但是時間還是有限,因為我趕著回來陪各位委員打巡,所以時間是有限的。其實我覺得啦,如果有韓院長在的話,那個氣氛肯定都是會非常好啦。是不是您覺得時間上有一點短,因為要趕回來被巡,心裡總是有壓力,是不是這樣?當然這個午餐的時間就是這個樣子。剛剛我看了這個午餐結束之後,馬上媒體就有一些轉述,有一些報導。"},{"start":22649.7,"end":22666.742,"text":"包括黃國昌委員說,非常遺憾這一頓飯破局,行政院沒有提出任何解方。傅坤祺委員說,非常遺憾,行政院不尊重立法院,所以沒提出任何解方。但是您說,午餐氣氛和樂。"},{"start":22668.358,"end":22685.194,"text":"氣氛非常的好那您剛剛講到了兩句話我覺得非常的有趣你說快樂的人會看到希望憂慮的人會看到遺憾所以你是一個快樂的人你看到了這一頓飯之後行政立法之間有了進一步"},{"start":22685.954,"end":22701.827,"text":"在溝通進一步,不管是想和解也好,或者是大家進一步溝通的希望可是呢,國民黨跟民眾黨的總召說遺憾,他們兩個看不到希望。 院長您個人是這樣覺得嗎?"},{"start":22703.339,"end":22729.025,"text":"我不僅快樂要看到希望,我更希望我跟韓院長努力讓國人快樂,讓國人都看得到希望。那兩院之間就是要這樣互動,在一次的參訊當中不可能把細節問題像菜單一樣列出來這樣談。因為這個是一個參訊,它不是一個正式的協商嘛,所以你不可能在裡面去談到說你要怎麼樣做,你要怎麼樣協商,到時候會不會又有人出來咆嘯說這是密室,因為沒有公開直播。"},{"start":22730.492,"end":22745.778,"text":"所以未來我希望就是能夠在這樣的氣氛底下﹐把一些該處理的事情﹐在大院裡面草引進行協商﹐盡快的集中協商。 那行政會會認為我們會很樂意在這個協商過程中﹐扮演行政院該有的角色。"},{"start":22746.158,"end":22773.717,"text":"韓院長我可不可以白話一點解釋你們中午的午餐就是說有一個推動的大方向大家有一個這樣的共識未來這個總預算該怎麼復違該怎麼樣去做一些調整大家內心有一個想法但是細節的部分真正落實的部分是不是還要留待韓院長來召集協商大家正式坐下來在協商的時候談"},{"start":22774.517,"end":22790.768,"text":"是不是我如果白話去解釋你們中午的午餐是不是可以這樣子在屬於我可以答覆的50%我認為完全正確但是我也認為不宜這個事情就丟給還院長也不宜這個樣子這需要大家共同來談所以行政院願意扮演"},{"start":22792.263,"end":22814.491,"text":"更重要更主要的角色來談這個事,但是談要由朝野黨團來談我覺得在立法院裡頭還是應該要保持一個快樂的心啦,如果每天在這裡像怒目金剛一樣每天在這裡一直不斷的咆哮那吃個快樂的飯,你們大家都覺得這餐飯吃得很快樂可是有人就說我不吃午餐,我都是不吃午餐的,那不知道去幹嘛呢?"},{"start":22814.491,"end":22815.792,"text":"不在現場你們知道那麼多"},{"start":22818.239,"end":22836.594,"text":"這個也是不能在這裡講的公開秘密。 剛剛午餐的部分我就問到這裡。我接下來問這個大概是比較嚴肅的議題。 院長你大概知道我們高雄才剛剛經歷了這個山陀而颱風的肆虐。 給您看一下山陀而之後"},{"start":22838.444,"end":22862.273,"text":"的高雄的狀況十七疾風對高雄帶來重大的損失這個是在大寮的河堤路上您看到所有的電線桿斷裂樹全部倒塌那台電的工程工程人員本來說從台中以南的工程人員全部調到高雄來後來到了第二天發現"},{"start":22863.573,"end":22890.83,"text":"沒辦法所以是全臺灣都調到高雄來所以我要必須再一次感謝所有臺電上上下下的員工您可以看到這個電線桿斷成這樣所以大巴工業區和巴產業園區經歷了大寮林園經歷了大概三天以上的停電對居民來講是苦不堪言這件事情讓我們開始嚴正的思考兩個部分"},{"start":22891.823,"end":22915.828,"text":"一個是電感地下化到底要不要進行這個還是讓您看一下啦齁三天之後臺電的員工可以把剛剛殘破不堪的道路把它整成這樣我真的太佩服臺電的同仁的工作效率我必須再講一次我也希望部長能夠對於我們臺電的同仁多加慰勉齁"},{"start":22918.101,"end":22934.687,"text":"來 院長讓您看一下平和公路全線地下化這個是在蘇貞昌當院長的時候去做的原因就是要大幅降低遇到風災的時候大規模的停電那有沒有達成效果呢我讓您看一下"},{"start":22935.627,"end":22958.672,"text":"這是這一次山陀而颱風在高雄市區造成了超過10萬戶以上的停電但是您可以看到平和公路因為地下化了之後平和公路只有零星的停電事故並沒有大規模的停電所以院長想跟您進一步討論"},{"start":22960.345,"end":22984.54,"text":"其實行政院包括台電有編列相關的預算這個是在2017年到2019年我們有這個所謂強化配電陷入防災任性計畫當時投入了70億元做了這些事情總共大概做了有463.64公里沒有實際大概做了將近500公里的長度"},{"start":22986.107,"end":23000.336,"text":"明年度我們的預算,其實這是持續性的計畫,所以還是有裂案。 我不知道經濟部在這個配電線路的地下化工程裡頭,編列了多少預算?"},{"start":23000.336,"end":23002.337,"text":"你們打算怎麼做?"},{"start":23002.337,"end":23012.504,"text":"這一次在沿海地區受創嚴重,有沒有思考過把沿海地區的這一些電線桿全部地下化?"},{"start":23013.302,"end":23013.442,"text":"臨時提案委員"},{"start":23045.082,"end":23066.707,"text":"平和公路,上禮拜六到屏東去的時候,確實經過那段路,正如委員所說的,它並不會造成很大的災害,所以這給我們一個很好的經驗,或許往這個方向走,未來現在還沒有地下化的電纜都能夠更有韌性,那這個部分,委員剛剛所提的計畫,請國部長來說明。"},{"start":23068.987,"end":23082.758,"text":"報告委員,這個您剛才所指導的這個臺電公司我想我們會通盤的考量,那這個在地質地理上面,如果在技術上可行的話,我們會去做。"},{"start":23083.649,"end":23102.581,"text":"我們會優先去做但是在那個海邊的那個我有去看那個比較有比較大的問題我覺得海邊的部分是怕會淹水嗎然後那個如果地下電纜如果入水的話沒有辦法修理"},{"start":23103.715,"end":23131.942,"text":"反而更慘所以我們會衡量技術上面可以處理的方式我覺得技術上因為你們現在一直在講所謂的韌性電網這件事情如果韌性電網這個事情能夠達成的話我覺得運用現在的這些科技的技術應該去好好的思考另外第二個我剛剛還沒講完就是說電感如果不能地下化旁邊種植的行道數就很重要了"},{"start":23133.042,"end":23134.623,"text":"院長您同意我的看法嗎?"},{"start":23134.623,"end":23138.766,"text":"剛剛您看到的那些照片,可不可以再把我調回去剛剛的那些照片?"},{"start":23141.468,"end":23167.28,"text":"這一排的鹿樹,種這個是什麼?黑板樹啦!黑板樹很怕,只要風來,一吹它就倒了。黑板樹,小葉懶人,是在南部地區種最多的行道樹。它最容易折斷、最容易勾斷電線,甚至折斷電線桿。所以這個在河堤道路上面,這個是屬於經濟部水利署的河川道路,這個大概幾千棵的黑板樹。"},{"start":23168.328,"end":23182.826,"text":"我們期待是不是經濟部能夠跟農業部來做合作農業部有這個臨時所他們有去研究哪一些樹種是比較適合當行道樹的你們可不可以跟臨時所來做合作把這樣的樹種全部換掉"},{"start":23183.507,"end":23184.268,"text":"部長您同意我的看法?"},{"start":23199.5,"end":23222.217,"text":"是,我們會完全依照這個委員的這個指示,我們會馬上跟這個農業部來協商,那用農業部他們很專業,他們可以知道哪一些樹可以對這個環境會比較好,甚至於我們在找說哪一些樹對二氧化碳的這個吸收會比較大,來提供這個環境,優質的環境,這個我們馬上會進行的。"},{"start":23224.659,"end":23246.172,"text":"我們在農業部裡頭培養了很多的林業博士我跟委員報告就是說以平和公路為例就是在整個在電燃地下化的同時我們就組成了一個團隊然後包括數種的選擇在不同地區的數種的選擇然後適合這種不同地形跟地貌的部分所以後續"},{"start":23246.952,"end":23265.062,"text":"我們在處理這個部分我想我們也會跟經濟部合作會組成一個數種選擇甚至包括種植的輔導我們都會來處理好我想這個部分其實不單只是因為高雄這一次受到十七疾風所以受創慘重院長如果您這幾天有空到高雄來看一看的話"},{"start":23265.822,"end":23292.117,"text":"你就知道高雄到現在很多的大馬路兩旁還是有很多還沒清完的路數當然我們也很感謝國軍國軍這次大概調派了超過2000人力來協助高雄做這個樹木的清運那講到您那個部長您剛剛講到這個包括減碳啊等等我接下來要問的這個問題其實我已經問很多次了院長您看過這個嗎"},{"start":23294.605,"end":23313.897,"text":"光電隧道在高速公路上面是2022年蘇貞昌當院長的時候我曾經在這裡質詢過蘇院長告訴我說這是一個可以思考的路徑因為國外開始在做這一類的研究了好了到了2023年奇怪都是10月份"},{"start":23315.482,"end":23343.495,"text":"陳建仁當院長的時候我又再提了一次當時在濃水圳上面做光電板我認為這是錯誤的政策我覺得可以去思考比如說用高速公路的隔音牆把它做成一個光電隧道那行政院也認為應該可以研究可是我問了很多次交通部抵死不從能源署認為這是一個可以研究的方向能源署認為可以做交通部抵死不從"},{"start":23344.943,"end":23360.012,"text":"院長我再讓您看這是在今年的4月18號在瑞士瑞士他們開始在計畫在公路上面建置這樣的一個太陽能板的光電隧道這是4月份的"},{"start":23361.072,"end":23377.688,"text":"接下來讓您看這個是最新的,2024年8月份,歐洲的許多國家,包括這個TaxExplorer的報導,歐洲的許多國家開始在研究做光電隧道的可行性。"},{"start":23378.308,"end":23397.742,"text":"光電隧道的可行性就會比如說我們不用在農地上面建置太陽能光電板不用在水準上面建置太陽能光電板運用現有的公路建置這樣的一個太陽能隧道它可以達到綠電減碳各式各樣的這樣的一個模式"},{"start":23398.905,"end":23424.446,"text":"部長我看您一直點頭您同意我的看法基本上這個方向是可以去考慮的但是這個牽扯到交通的安全行人的安全這個所有的這個這個不是你這個講法跟交通不一樣我當然知道這個牽扯到交通的安全行人的安全包括裝置的安全交通部一直跟我說那個太陽能板只要遇到大風遇到什麼它就會飛走"},{"start":23429.463,"end":23450.757,"text":"有一個很大的問題,包括成本。建構一個這樣的環境當然是非常的理想,但是以目前的成本來考量,它可能發出來的電沒有辦法抵擋我們的投資。所以基於實驗、科學來看是沒有問題。"},{"start":23451.638,"end":23477.217,"text":"但是如果按企業經營啊,臺電來經營這個的話,可能就是不符成本。 這個當然不可能是臺電去經營啊,但是我覺得是不是政府能夠研究,可以開始做一些可行性評估。 跟委員報告,高峰局啊,他已經正式在說他會收集像類似這樣的國外的經驗,那收集國外經驗之前,他已經在北中南12個服務區招標完成,先在服務區做起。"},{"start":23483.659,"end":23500.626,"text":"院長,我其實覺得我們一直在談光電談能源政策,剛剛很多委員在問你們能源配比的事情,我覺得還是應該要有更多創新的想法,然後讓台灣能夠在能源的這件事情上面還是持續走在世界的前端。"},{"start":23503.151,"end":23524.729,"text":"好,謝謝邱毅英委員的質詢,謝謝卓院長跟相關部會首長的備詢,謝謝。接下來登記第8號邱志偉委員之質詢以書面提出,請行政院院書面答覆,並列入記錄刊登公報。再接下來我們請登記第9號陳冠廷委員質詢。"},{"start":23538.052,"end":23542.194,"text":"陳委員好 院長好 院長各位部會首長還有國人同胞大家好首先要恭賀我們這一次的臺灣的國家日順利舉辦 不管我們如何自稱"},{"start":23564.281,"end":23591.171,"text":"不論來自何時不論來自何方只要我們認同臺灣這塊土地只要我們認同臺灣的民主法治只要我們認同守護臺灣的主權我想我們就是臺灣人這就是我們的國家日那院長從520上任到現在您就任院長大概也是5個多月可不可以跟我們分享一下這5個多月來哪一個在執政的這個願景的實現程度你覺得最滿意的"},{"start":23592.981,"end":23611.162,"text":"最滿意嗎?對自己來說哪一個施政的主軸你覺得最滿意的?因為我們在一百天的時候我們有一個行動101的策略方案那提議面提出了很多那我不敢說最滿意我覺得最貼切需要的就是我們看到這兩次風災之後帶給民眾的不便"},{"start":23612.063,"end":23640.501,"text":"過去我們雖然在治水上面我們花了相當的時間也花了相當的經費我覺得已經達到起碼基本上的需求但是還有一些系統性的問題那我已經在明年度551億的系統性治水當中希望相關單位都能夠緊密的去設計好這個未來的需求我覺得這個不是滿意我覺得是現在此刻最需要的謝謝院長所以說對於國土的堅韌度你認為這是我們未來最重要的願景之一"},{"start":23641.141,"end":23665.499,"text":"那我們請院長還有部長部長經濟部部長來這是直接直接引導到我們的下一個議題就是關於均衡臺灣院長請問什麼是均衡臺灣均衡臺灣在總統的施政理念跟他的競選過程當中一直談到所以第一個階段我們是把"},{"start":23666.86,"end":23692.971,"text":"臺灣走過一片之後找出了140項重要的基礎工程希望能夠因此而提升臺灣整個的基礎工程的基本設施的建設跟水準再來就是我們希望從北部到桃竹苗到中部到大南方甚至到東部都能夠有一個區域性的發展這過去的政府也經常這麼做那我們把過去的經驗加上現在我們可以發展的科技產業融為在一起分這整個區"},{"start":23694.394,"end":23694.514,"text":"臨時提案委員"},{"start":23714.83,"end":23732.942,"text":"所以我們對於中小微企業的產業跟所謂的傳產,我們也希望他能夠進行雙軸的轉型,淨零跟能力的轉型,所以我們編了116億來幫助他們從這個轉型,就是希望他們不要落後於整個國際跟台灣的這個科技發展能夠逐步的上升。 沒錯"},{"start":23733.542,"end":23762.56,"text":"不要落後於國際的發展同時一些偏鄉的一些我們的民生的基礎設施我們要把它做得更好也就是說我們不是在經營工時而已不是只有追尋利潤而已我們要注重的是基礎設施的健全發展所以我想要請教根據沒有自來水地區的供水改善計畫現在各縣市的無自來水沿管升級案水利署是以每戶工程不超過60萬元為審查標準只要超過60萬元水利署基本上就不會去考慮"},{"start":23763.393,"end":23780.735,"text":"可是呢在我們嘉義山區很多用戶都是地區偏遠戶密數低也就是說這樣的現行標準來看會超過60萬元的標準所以這些案子會駁回可是部長這不是只有在我們嘉義縣山區其實各個縣市的山區地區都有這樣的偏鄉的問題"},{"start":23782.037,"end":23800.221,"text":"那如果我們要達成均衡台灣是不是我們可以把無自來水地區的供水改善計畫聽說經濟部已經有提一個計畫給行政院未來要提高到80萬元山區用戶要提高到100萬元請問有這件事情嗎在無自來水地區供水供水地區的改善計畫第5期從114年到118年我們編列了106億那當然希望這個能夠檢討過去執行上"},{"start":23808.2,"end":23813.125,"text":"報告委員,我們現在這個水利署可以協助輔導還有這個補助的地方,我想還是要地方政府辦理這個簡易自來水系統,那麼來改善這個民眾的用水。"},{"start":23828.78,"end":23856.258,"text":"譬如說嘉義大埔鄉西嶼村5-70的,原來成本156萬一戶,改申請可以申請減水。 水利署正在研提無自來水地區供水改善第5期計畫,也就是114年到118年,加大執行量能持續推動,提升偏鄉以及原住民區健康飲水,並保證供水安全。"},{"start":23857.479,"end":23881.174,"text":"謝謝,謝謝部長。我必須要強調,現在嘉義縣大埔鄉,它就是坐落在我們水庫旁,水庫就是坐落在大埔鄉的鄉徑之內。所以有許多民眾是住在水庫旁,卻無法使用水庫水。等於說,我們這樣的做法,其實就是把我們最後一塊的地圖把它補起來。堅韌的台灣,還有基礎建設的共享,那不可以說是因為他們在偏遠山區,反而得到更少的資源。我們要相反的,"},{"start":23881.434,"end":23881.474,"text":"麻煩請農業部長備選"},{"start":23912.076,"end":23912.601,"text":"部長可以請回,謝謝"},{"start":23921.641,"end":23949.922,"text":"院長去年9月的時候賴總統那時候是賴副總統由南下到我們嘉義的新港鄉那時候有提到說他的願景那是施政的願景他說嘉義縣未來不會只有工業區不會只有科學園區他希望還有增加我們的農業生物科學園區也就是我們不忘本我們嘉義是過去是從農業大縣觀光大縣現在是農工科技大縣但是農業還是我們嘉義縣發展的命脈之一所以"},{"start":23950.558,"end":23962.692,"text":"院長關於賴總統的政見這個願景我們是不是可以把它共同實現現在我跟部長來討論一下現在農業部的農業科技園區管理中心下面有屏東園區還有桃園園區還有蘭花園區對對對總共有三個園區是"},{"start":23966.997,"end":23975.422,"text":"那截止至113年8月我看已經有核准115家農企業進駐,那已經總投資金額已經到了172億8千萬台幣,包含農業資產、包含農業設施、天然物、生技研發等6大類的產業都有進駐。"},{"start":23987.561,"end":23998.637,"text":"這三年的營業額分別是52億、55億到64億,所以這是透過園區把上下游的廠商做整個串聯,這是一個龐大的產業工業鏈,這個我們是非常肯定的。"},{"start":23999.178,"end":24014.874,"text":"那第一期105年已經完成了現在開發第二期那109年正式開始招商但是我們現在在想請教部長的第三期有沒有可能開始規劃如果規劃有沒有可能往台灣的中間的走廊嘉義這個地帶來去做開發"},{"start":24017.062,"end":24037.65,"text":"我跟委員報告,就是整個農業科學園區裡面,最重要的是把我們農產業的一級產業做一個加值的部分。那陳如你剛才說的,在整個的屏東的農業科學園區裡面,我們第二期的部分,那以過往的經驗,我們在第一期招商到滿70%以後,我們就會進到第二期的規劃。"},{"start":24038.91,"end":24053.895,"text":"第二期目前實際進駐30%預定要進駐的已經達到40%所以也可以開始去考慮第三期的農業科技園區的座落我想委員也非常這幾年來一直非常積極的推動有關於農業"},{"start":24055.055,"end":24056.855,"text":"謝謝部長,那院長跟部長還是想請"},{"start":24084.133,"end":24112.31,"text":"兩位齁,來做整體的這個規劃,把我們不要說新港齁,我們整個嘉義縣他的這個農產,還有他們可能的這個加工,或者是可能發展的這個整個調線齁,來去做整體的規劃之後,還是希望說能夠在一年內能夠提出嘉義園區的規劃方案,是不是可以請院長能夠來協助促成,來去我們共同把賴總統的這個主要的這個願景能夠在嘉義來把它落實?"},{"start":24113.12,"end":24133.285,"text":"好,謝謝委員。嘉義不僅是農業的大縣,它現在未來會是科技甚至軍工、工業上的大縣。那從農業的大縣能夠加強農業生技園區的發展,這絕對是一個正確必經的道路。那剛剛我問過部長,他認為委員所說的這個期限,在一年內我們來把它完成。"},{"start":24133.365,"end":24133.465,"text":"國發會主委"},{"start":24167.964,"end":24192.377,"text":"院長我們嘉義縣另外一個重要的一個議題就是我們的查改廠總廠南遷嘉義的這個進度那這個進度今年1月就已經到了行政院請問大概是什麼時候可以核定我稍微補充一下2021年8月前行政院長蘇貞昌他視察這個的時候就已經把嘉義預定地了然後農業部在2023年已經進行了可行性評估跟先行規劃作業"},{"start":24193.317,"end":24207.91,"text":"今年1月已經把評估報告呈給行政院可是1月到現在有9個月我現在是沒有聽到下文所以如果從頭算2021年8月到現在是2024年10月是不是可以請院長來"},{"start":24209.091,"end":24231.317,"text":"要求國發會盡量在最快的數在4個月內好不好,來完成跨部會的協調選擇。我跟國務委員報告一下,因為他4月份,我們4月份的時候有提出改善意見給到了農業部,那農業部後來又送了一份到院,然後10月8號院又回覆意見再次修改,所以農業部現在正在農業部修改中。"},{"start":24232.457,"end":24258.415,"text":"我跟委員報告就是說我們在去年年底的時候完成了可進行的規劃那我們分別在1月份跟3月份就提報了中長城計畫到行政院去爭取相關的一個中長城公共建設的一個經費那在整個的一個審查過程中其實委員有非常好的意見我們做了修正那最近的一次修正完了以後我們預計在11月就會再報到行政院去"},{"start":24259.516,"end":24279.552,"text":"來進行做最後的一個確認那我們期待說透過這樣子幾次的跟委員的溝通能夠讓這個場這個場域的整個功能跟他的一個跟產業的鏈結能夠達到更實際的一個效力所以11月11月我們就會送我們現在大概整理的差不多了"},{"start":24280.548,"end":24305.451,"text":"這個院長這個中南部的茶農都在看這個案子,那不是只有我們嘉義地區,雲嘉南地區那中南部的茶農都在看這個案子,所以我必須要為我們的茶農請命,希望院長能夠促成行政院盡快落實這個擦乾產南遷嘉義,讓這個案子成為院長你的一個重大的農業政績。謝謝,我們現在外賓來訪,我們經常都送阿里山的紅茶。"},{"start":24306.837,"end":24334.353,"text":"還有高山茶都是很棒的選擇啊對這個是對做外交來講也是非常有意義的那是有台灣的意向台灣的重要的一個觀光景地然後還有他所孕育出來的這些特補的茶種然後這些茶種然後又可以帶來台灣的意向給這些外賓所以謝謝謝謝院長那最後院長我們剛剛談到阿里山阿里山上大部分都是國有林地那所以山上的民眾最關心的還是國有林地的居住問題"},{"start":24335.313,"end":24356.879,"text":"那國有林地的既有居住使用房屋的部分本來行政院是有要修正讓肯定續辦清理要點的規定那把國有林地上面的既有的這些建物的清理認定從58527就是58年5月27日改成各地方政府第一次非都市土地辦理使用編地公告日期加一線是75年11月1日"},{"start":24357.739,"end":24377.315,"text":"但是各部會都認為各縣市政府第一次非督公告的年度相差太遠,它不利於國有林地的管理,所以行政院現在還沒有拍板這個方案。 最早的屏東縣是64年10月6日,最晚的是75年11月1日。 所以我在這邊是不是可以直接建議行政院,全國統一用國產法的82721,82年7月21日當作分界點。"},{"start":24380.838,"end":24395.213,"text":"八、二、七、二、一之前就已經供民眾居住使用的非營林使用土地可以直接從國有林搬地變為一般的林業用地再變更為國有非公用財產之後就統一交給國產署管理"},{"start":24395.934,"end":24421.314,"text":"在同意輸出給民眾。 這樣子的話可以解決山區大部分的居住問題。 是不是可以請行政院來考量一下?適用性的問題、適法性的問題還是請部長來答覆?我跟委員報告,就是說我想58527跟那個82721本身,我想過去幾年委員一直非常關心的。 那非常一個重要的就是說82721本身是國產署是針對國有非公用的部分去適用。"},{"start":24423.595,"end":24444.548,"text":"臨時保安營地是國有公用的部分所以它不能直接試用但是後來我們折衝了一個就是說用最近的一個航拍的一個相關的一個規定就像您說的那我跟委員報告有兩個方法可以解這個問題因為它的確是有已經變成一個聚落了那如果說國土計畫"},{"start":24447.038,"end":24456.141,"text":"實施以後我們用相規就可以直接處理,就直接可以處理,但是國土計劃還沒有實施之前還有一個路就是我們在...謝謝陳冠廷委員的質詢,謝謝,謝謝卓院長及相關部會所長備詢,謝謝,謝謝"},{"start":24477.669,"end":24498.131,"text":"接下來請登記第10號,陳超明委員質詢。院長好,首先有請我們行政院卓院長。麻煩再請卓院長備選。"},{"start":24507.222,"end":24532.058,"text":"陳委員好 卓院長好我第一個執行的問題就是桃子苗大矽谷計劃我們的速度要加快好不好那今年的國會會在2月份提出桃子苗的大矽谷計劃那這期間我安排了經濟委員會考察苗栗兩次我個人召開協調會八次"},{"start":24534.147,"end":24553.119,"text":"那很高興,終於在9月30日經過我們行政院正式核定,苗栗縣有三個地方納入大細股計畫,一個是職覽科學園區第二期的擴編,一個是頭份科學園區,一個是厚隆的產業園區。"},{"start":24555.1,"end":24556.261,"text":"投資在苗栗縣絕對是最好的選擇"},{"start":24580.054,"end":24581.435,"text":"這次也表現了我們中央與地方"},{"start":24610.605,"end":24638.287,"text":"團結合作,共演夢想,讓我們苗栗縣成為西部科技走廊的新鮮的一個都市。在此,我們苗栗縣的總統任縣長特別叫我來感謝我們的賴總統、左院長,還有我們共和會,還有我們經濟部大家全力的支持,把這個合定下來,讓它能大展身手,讓我們苗栗縣的院長能全程示警,"},{"start":24638.823,"end":24653.588,"text":"這一點要繼續跟我們一起幫忙,因為這裡面一定有很多困難的問題,只要中央幫我們協助解決的話,我相信很快苗栗人的夢想就會完成,這一點拜託一下。"},{"start":24655.149,"end":24676.428,"text":"謝謝委員總統的政見一定是最重要的國家施政方向,但是不可能一夜實現,我們一定會按部就班,循序漸進。這當中國科會、國發會扮演非常重要的角色,所以非常非常的辛苦。所以我現在巴結他,我現在在委員會都不敢再修理他了。好不好,謝謝。阿現在請經濟部長,我們國會可以下去了。"},{"start":24690.359,"end":24704.894,"text":"我第二個質疑,就是苗栗天花湖水庫的興建以後,您中央要很清楚的表態,問題要到哪裏去做。那經濟部在民國83年開始規劃天花湖水庫,在102年通過環評,"},{"start":24710.609,"end":24723.937,"text":"但是後續因為地方的溝通那時民運團體起來到處都在反對也是現在的執政黨當初的很多作為我自己經過這個情形我們一情二質"},{"start":24725.223,"end":24748.075,"text":"現在陶瓊廟大水谷計劃已經核定了,未來的高科技進駐到苗栗或是到新竹的時候,水量勢必增加很多。我們國的水庫給台中利用跟新竹科學以前的水都是靠苗栗供應,那現在我們有產業基地,我們互相聯絡互相幫忙。"},{"start":24749.156,"end":24773.459,"text":"但是天花府水庫我覺得施必要件,現在加上我們極端的氣候,那沒有水,有水要施,無水就痛苦,現在就讓得很快,大家都沒辦法水,但是當時極端氣候變遷,我們感染的氣候,我們要為它臭苗吃氣,所以尤其等兩年,"},{"start":24775.18,"end":24802.886,"text":"簽署時在竹蘭頭份,在苗栗縣大概有50%的人口,切水切電,讓我們每天都要洗,我現在只要這樣,苗栗縣政府有準備,但是會來支持我們天花府這個水庫,做我們大溪庫區區劃這個備用水源,你們到底有要做或不要做,你們這樣每天說簽署口沒人反對,現在表列官第一個表態,"},{"start":24803.973,"end":24806.077,"text":"報告委員這一個事情我不清楚"},{"start":24814.417,"end":24835.399,"text":"我知不知?你知不知?我們在淡水計劃看你們會不會說,我們跟你們說,我們跟你們討論,要不然要積極一點,情報要聯合一點。是是是,謝謝委員。不然我跟你們講,先一個水庫,你們現在為了科學用電用水,你們海邊的淡水計劃花了有多少錢?"},{"start":24836.22,"end":24841.003,"text":"這個我們會納入優先考慮我再跟委員報告這個地區當然需要工業區將來的園區都需要用水但天花湖這個場子啊原來我們在顧慮的過去幾年是認為"},{"start":24859.753,"end":24860.353,"text":"責成水利署下去做評估"},{"start":24885.882,"end":24894.028,"text":"好,因為以前都是地方反對的,你們都不敢講,現在地方表態說要請你來見了,你們應該要下去鼓勵主持好不好?謝謝委員再來,政治部請回座,我現在說國土計畫,你們說要上路"},{"start":24904.718,"end":24906.659,"text":"國土計劃法在明年4月110日要生效。 我是跟議長說,你們真的要很慎重考慮。"},{"start":24926.618,"end":24932.79,"text":"因為這個國土計劃法在國民黨的時代執政時代同歸。 再來換你民進黨執政在這半年內,你若沒有去地方去溝通協調,大家無家無常常。"},{"start":24939.704,"end":24940.144,"text":"我現在跟議長說"},{"start":24963.905,"end":24989.33,"text":"不要怪地方的政府,我暫時說一些事情,其實是你中央的行政責任,你們現在這麼厲害,明年要到齊要表現你們的power,你們全力推動,這不對,我是執政要延緩。我現在要跟你說的第一件事,苗栗山多平原少,水庫多,苗栗縣的國土保育區面積,你給我賠20%。"},{"start":24991.36,"end":24993.361,"text":"我講這個問題很重要,我們要學平東的做法。"},{"start":25018.837,"end":25044.698,"text":"平東怎麼做你知道嗎?把公有地,就是財產的土地化為農業,農業就是你永遠要工作,你不得翻身,他這樣做,他把本來的農業優良農地改為農惡,把都市計劃內的農業用地改為城鄉發展區,如果平東通過,我們廟的管理這樣做,我10年會叫管理局去通過。"},{"start":25048.684,"end":25077.982,"text":"所以現在背卸是很嚴重的所以這個國土計畫真的要好好考慮利用還有如果能沿著兩年好好的溝通協調讓地方發出他們未來要發展最重要的地方不然我聽到本來要問你今天總執行的時間是多少你不要說農民有農業的精神大家都要看土地有沒有賺人都沒改變人性沒改變不要想到很偉大"},{"start":25079.363,"end":25104.569,"text":"你們都曉得,都市裡面的農業區,你們都一直在改變,變成商業區往那裡下去。我跟委員報告,就是說有關於劃農業發展區到底怎麼劃,我想,絕對不是只有地方政府劃中央省,一定是中央跟地方政府一起合作的。所以我想後續我們會去加強溝通,然後適合的這些地,我想我們會跟縣政府一起來討論,"},{"start":25105.809,"end":25106.71,"text":"主動跟內政部請求把它劃出來,這個部分我想一起努力。"},{"start":25123.763,"end":25126.305,"text":"是,謝謝委員提醒我個人一直覺得國土激發法的內容是不是沒有辦法像農民說的很清楚"},{"start":25149.924,"end":25150.144,"text":"還有一點啦"},{"start":25172.941,"end":25195.887,"text":"您說糧食國安的問題,保證也一定有保證頭地是防災地也保證,我常常聽那些學者專家那個什麼糧食國安的問題,你自己去看,現在產量提高了,你要有各種改變的方式,因為總執行歐巴基國有重點想問,改天我要跟農委會請教,你再轉告給我們的卓院長。"},{"start":25199.022,"end":25221.125,"text":"再來我對苗栗一項現象我一直想要做的事情,就是指定苗栗為地區環保思案區,打造臺灣的圈圈子。我們苗栗的地方地區環保很漂亮,而且每一塊的地方交通非常便利。我現在跟你說一個現實的問題在哪裡,苗栗一塊的啊,"},{"start":25222.401,"end":25225.763,"text":"部長,你好好想我講的這個幾個問題。所以在土地內,它的農地都去變成"},{"start":25251.623,"end":25267.617,"text":"從我去變成鑑定,我們苗栗的農地地區環保,自己可以做事,什麼就受到宣示。 所以我在這裏我定了一個官僚,苗栗官僚交通很方便,到台北45分鐘,到高雄70分鐘,到台中20分鐘。"},{"start":25271.482,"end":25294.742,"text":"所謂苗栗要蓋農舍要符合農舍的行政規定,這裏有一點,就是很困擾,農舍用地應既行配置以農地者地界線策及連接道路,不得影響農業經營用地的完整,但使特施對行者不在此限。"},{"start":25296.147,"end":25323.313,"text":"因為特殊地形者﹐我地的經濟委員會﹐跟農業部﹐跟你們農委會的特農整個變了。 您說不來,好啦。你一直要知道,你平地的農地﹐平地的農地﹐跟我所剩的山坡地是沒有人你用這樣的條件來設限。 我在這裡,地方的公務人員,沒有人跟我去解釋特殊的地形,它經常變成獨立。"},{"start":25324.651,"end":25350.754,"text":"所以我們廟裡邊85%山坡地都面臨嚴重的、苛刻的損耗,沒辦法通。 我覺得這一點要因地制宜,不能說在平地的農舍跟山坡地的農舍,你們要求的條件都一樣。 平地有路,山坡地要自己開。 現在山坡地要知道保證一定,山坡地缺水。"},{"start":25351.793,"end":25377.801,"text":"您要收農作物、切工、農產作物,您就給我們限制。 按照大政、對外政、水個該行,叫做增加收入。 您也要去改改這高經濟價值的事務。 農場、或是銷燃、或是存項目,都有一些有經濟價值。 您要行行,我一定要政市規、要政土道、要政對外該行。"},{"start":25379.554,"end":25385.179,"text":"所以有時候想不通,你們這些都不會讓人變調,所以我就這樣。"},{"start":25386.598,"end":25389.999,"text":"其實在我們國土計畫的農事的部分的一個鄉村聚落的規劃裡面就可以"},{"start":25429.79,"end":25453.409,"text":"好好 謝謝 謝謝時間已到謝謝苗栗的陳超明委員 謝謝左院長及相關首長的備詢 謝謝"},{"start":25456.897,"end":25457.478,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":25488.68,"end":25494.625,"text":"好,謝謝主席。這個行政院長、經濟部長有請。麻煩請卓院長再備詢。請經濟部部長備詢。謝謝,林委員好。好,院長午安。這個部長也午安。午安。"},{"start":25509.789,"end":25521.569,"text":"今天大部分的委員在質詢的時候都非常關心能源的議題,這本席也不例外,特別點一下稍早郭國文委員在質詢的時候講說台南的燃氣電廠已經蓋到地方人民受不了"},{"start":25522.472,"end":25548.687,"text":"那我必須要講我是桃園選出來的民意代表我桃園也是諸多民營電廠心中最大的肥羊我要提醒一下兩位這個不是用所謂的縣市自給率可以解釋的很有可能會導致區域的對立但我要講的是執政黨的委員都受不了那我們當然要站在選民這一邊所以未來我們的民營電廠的興建本席是愛南同意但這件事情我們之後會有很多時間好好就教"},{"start":25549.267,"end":25568.15,"text":"但這個指出了一個大的問題也就是說我們的能源政策顯然是亂七八糟而且後遺症頻傳現在正在發生不管是電廠的擴建招致民怨或者是電價的上漲等等都是能源政策的後遺症今天我們要把話說說清楚因為人民的知情權是很重要的"},{"start":25568.61,"end":25594.895,"text":"能源政策會影響產業發展,影響環境品質,影響民生,影響物價,因此政府雖然有這個權力去決定能源政策的走向,但是人民有權力知道走向跟邏輯,而民意代表有這個責任要來釐清真相。剛剛院長回答這個李燕秀委員的質詢的時候曾經有講,能源政策都會合理的延續,他問你蔡政府的政策你會不會延續,你說都會延續對不對?"},{"start":25595.899,"end":25623.476,"text":"我們目前是在這個政策的走向當中繼續更精進該發展更快的我們絕對不會再慢以前慢下來的我們希望把它補上來你真的有延續嗎?我再給你一次機會我們希望延續院長你知不知道電業法最近公告的修正修正的差異是什麼?你知不知道?委員請他講哪一個重點告訴我們電業法修正最大部長要不要救援一下電業法修正最大的重點是什麼?就是電價"},{"start":25626.759,"end":25650.627,"text":"電價的部分由審議委員會來調整這兩位的回答讓我捏了一把冷汗電業法修正最大的差異不再是電價這些問題這是肢解最大的核心的問題是改變了2016修正版本之後一個重要的決策叫做台電拆分我這樣提示之後你們有印象嗎2016年的電業法要求能源政策規劃跟走向是什麼"},{"start":25651.551,"end":25665.948,"text":"報告委員那個時候我還沒有進來沒有進來這個行政院對你現在要修嘛表示你要修舊的對不對最近除了這一次馬上公告要修正之外上一次是2016年修的這最大的差異是什麼"},{"start":25667.238,"end":25681.84,"text":"兩位不知道很可怕沒關係我來跟兩位說分明阿第一把修正最關鍵的就是要把第六條拿掉曾經阿這我們講說這個為了要扶植綠電對不對為了要打造一個健康的環境民進黨過去在野的時候把台電講得一文不值阿"},{"start":25683.021,"end":25710.27,"text":"財務不透明做事不效率還有長電等等亂七八糟必須要改革必須要整頓所以搞出一個電業法的版本這個電業法的版本告訴大家6年之後還一定要分拆等於走向民營化的路把這個發書配跟售拆分對不對有一個這樣子重要的指導綱領在這個地方對不對好2024馬上公佈要進入修正的電業法裡面這條刪除了"},{"start":25711.191,"end":25718.353,"text":"這是重大的政策轉變吧,院長,是嗎?是的。是對不對?那這樣子還是延續前朝的能源政策嗎?"},{"start":25720.27,"end":25747.868,"text":"政策的延續它不一定是一成不變的,我們現在面對很多的事情,就是在整個大的能源架構底下,我們從蒸汽、展綠到多元到核,這個都一定是照著程序走的,但內容是可以調整的,時程也是可以彈性的。大部分的委員今天都在談配比的問題,我今天就先不談配比的問題,但我談別的,比如說電液法修正就是一個很好的題目,你剛剛講說會延續又說要修正,這其實是矛盾的概念,我先問,這個電液法的修正誰的決策?"},{"start":25751.031,"end":25758.296,"text":"是院長您的決策,比如行政院開會決議的結果,還是說郭部長提出來的想法,還是現在你們還有這個氣候變遷委員會對不對,經濟發展相關的委員會,來自總統的指示嗎?是誰的決策?誰決定要把這個第6條拿掉?"},{"start":25764.588,"end":25791.311,"text":"報告委員這個是我們根據臺電他實際上面做的評估所以提供給我們這個經濟部經濟部在討論過以後認為分拆成三家公司其實沒有辦法讓這個三家公司都能夠走向比較好運作的情況還是保持原來的狀態才有可能做得更完善"},{"start":25793.137,"end":25800.055,"text":"所以是台電找經濟部,經濟部基本上同意了對不對?那你們是不是打臉前朝政府?那前朝政府規劃那一套又是什麼呢?"},{"start":25800.765,"end":25827.102,"text":"我們必須要與時俱進,我想這個也是委員您一直在指導我們的部分嘛,對不對,所以我們與時俱進,然後我們提出來,那請大院所有的委員來討論,同意嘛。院長,我們每次討論基本上都還蠻理性的,因為概念上來講,本席向主張,面對問題才是解決問題的第一步,那我現在要正式請教你,這個電業法的修正是不是代表過去的能源政策不合理?"},{"start":25828.695,"end":25837.624,"text":"大的戰略就是展綠蒸汽減煤到非核這大的戰略其中任何一個要隨時式來調整的那種戰術性的問題"},{"start":25839.919,"end":25858.792,"text":"主管單位都必須拿出來討論所以剛剛委員講這個討論目前可能都還沒有到院裡面來在主管部分在討論的過程當中他一定收集更多那到這裡來我們還有政委還有院會會做多重的考慮你知不知道這件事情對於產業的影響是什麼對於政策的影響對於台電財政的影響是什麼"},{"start":25863.188,"end":25864.569,"text":"臺電是一個絆腳石,他們說財務不透明問題一大堆對不對?"},{"start":25884.997,"end":25904.056,"text":"關鍵的核心是當政府要大力扶植綠電的時候你會希望未來是一個相對自由的市場讓很多人用競爭的方式避免所有的綠電必須要透過政府用高價短購的方式來處理對不對所以台電才必須要整理必須要重整對不對那你今天現在看起來修法的方向看起來是開倒車"},{"start":25905.097,"end":25906.338,"text":"那個時候我們認為綠電是必須要充分提供的"},{"start":25920.884,"end":25933.139,"text":"後來到現在我們有新的命題也就是說2020年以後零碳是全球的共識所以我們就要來調整"},{"start":25935.782,"end":25954.585,"text":"照你這樣講,零碳是優勢趨勢對不對?所以相對來講,綠電未來發展政府的輔助的比例要越來越低,因為大家都搶著做對不對?那應該可以照當初的規劃進行啊?綠電當初的規劃我們到2030年的時候,希望能夠滿足所有的出國的廠商,他需要綠電的廠商,我們都能夠滿足他們。"},{"start":25956.035,"end":25971.663,"text":"部長這個是等一下我會跟你討論的題目啦我先跟你講這幾件事情第一個對於產業的影響本來當初大家綠電業者想要進場希望來共同跟政府一起推動這樣的目標的時候他有心理預期也就是過了幾年之後我的市場會越來越自由會透過競爭的方式變成一個正常的市場"},{"start":25972.663,"end":25987.318,"text":"可是這6年來用高價短購的方式你先走這個本行沒有意見可是你先走之後這些先佔的產業把好處都佔光了然後你現在好處佔光他們領走了高額的補助之後你現在講說好我們在市場正常化的角度我們不做了回歸舊制"},{"start":25988.439,"end":26013.131,"text":"那請問對於這些新進的業者來講公平嗎?這是對於你未來更多的產業投入可能造成的衝擊。再來我就要講真正的問題是來自於對台電的壓力啊。我們講說自由化就是為了要讓市場去分擔台電的壓力對不對?當然你講台電有員工的問題啊、有拆分、有債務的問題本身都了解,我也沒有要拆台電的台的意思,但這些都是一個要處理的問題。但你今天不做這件事情之後可能的後果會是什麼?"},{"start":26014.071,"end":26019.399,"text":"後果是我們接下來要繼續擴展綠能的佔比繼續增加投資的時候,你還有哪樣的工具啊?"},{"start":26020.39,"end":26045.328,"text":"我們接下來就是本席要談的阿我們當初講為了讓再生能源先落地我們要用短購電價的方式來處理當然也被大家這個批評對不對當初大家批評短購電價很高用了很多納稅錢的時候你們講未來這是個過渡未來台電會自由化等等公民電廠通通跑出來之後成本就會下降因為他會競爭現在前提條件消失了你的短購機制會退場還是不會退場"},{"start":26046.755,"end":26048.537,"text":"總告現在沒有不存在的"},{"start":26056.192,"end":26076.96,"text":"怎麼會沒有存在新的部份是不存在的部長我知道你最近比較常回答離岸風電的問題離岸風電是下一段但是短購怎麼會不存在呢你每一年台電都有報告就看這張圖表就好您說的是光電的部份對啊光電啊現在從2019年開始你的短購支出是248.8億然後2020 353億2021年426億2022年588億到了2023年905億"},{"start":26085.868,"end":26113.977,"text":"這是不是一個可觀的成長?誰買單?準夠的價格是往下走的哪有往下走?你看折線圖,平均購價從一度4.26到了2023的資料是5.20這是台電的公開資料部長你可以再確認一下那我想請問院長跟部長2024馬上要到年底啦今年他是上升還是下降?這個當然台電要再評估他現在的發電用電跟這些業者之間的狀況那我們現在需求的是因為我們將來"},{"start":26115.453,"end":26132.33,"text":"二零二五、二六甚至二六、二十七我們的舊有電廠出移的比較多,我們需要更多的民間電廠,民間電廠來商議。所以你需要對不對?那你需要會不會付更高的代價?會對不對?因為你需要嗎?這要合理,這不能說需要就...所以你預期未來這個總額的支出跟平均的價格是會上升還是會下降?"},{"start":26132.97,"end":26150.424,"text":"這個要再經過計算我是當然希望能夠越穩定越好我們現在的問題就是以數字的呈現上來看他是看不到任何下降的可能這就回到了大家關鍵的題目它是因為您所看到的是因為這個用電需求成長當然你光電的數量也成長嘛所以總而會成長對不對"},{"start":26152.679,"end":26172.906,"text":"那我的意思是講,你的總額會成長,但是你的市場不改變,這些業者是不是繼續依賴所謂的政府囤購?那你台電的財務壓力是不是就越來越大?這就是我講,你這些東西,政策你講你要有空間,可是修正之後它是會有副作用或是有後果的對不對?報告委員,我們未來的綠電銷售,我們是分倉制度。"},{"start":26173.726,"end":26201.313,"text":"所以需要綠電的,他可以購買更高的這個綠電,那麼一般我們國內的廠商都要預估的時候,我本來想問你幾年之後他會開始往下走,進入一個正常的機制,看起來你是回答不出來。因為最終他必須要有一個很公平而且非常公開透明的一個交易平台,這個平台就是讓大家在這裡用合理的價錢去取得需要的用電。"},{"start":26202.193,"end":26227.786,"text":"我現在接下來講現在財務負擔是節節上升我接下來講離岸豐電剛剛部長有講離岸豐電就沒有短購對不對那我們就把離岸豐電的帳來算一算離岸豐電分三期第一期示範豐廠第二期潛力廠子當初為了推廣所以你先短購當初被大家罵爆嘛一度7塊就是從這個地方來的對不對你說第三期開始我們沒短購了開始進入市場機制對不對市場機制出問題啦三之一標都標出去了很多行政契約不簽了"},{"start":26228.726,"end":26243.069,"text":"因為開始好難喔做不下去了成本好高算不過來我也不見得找得到對不對你們剛剛講說企業都要用電2030都要用電對不對可是為什麼這些廠商在蓋的時候果汁不淺說我店可能賣不掉政府要幫忙為什麼"},{"start":26245.421,"end":26246.262,"text":"有沒有這樣的事?"},{"start":26246.262,"end":26262.591,"text":"先說有沒有這樣的事?應該有嗎?委員報告,三之一他跟政府之間是有合約的,所以我們會按照彼此之間的合約,我們會承諾讓他走下去,然後我們會幫助他,他因為跟他的財務的關係,他得不到銀行的..."},{"start":26268.775,"end":26296.329,"text":"院長我今天時間有限啦你今天講說我會輔導為什麼但是你實際上你政府在準備什麼你是不是要把中鋼拉進來搞一個基金弄個公司然後一樣搞保駕收購只是他帳不掛在台電掛在別的地方那請問這是不是變相短購對不對那出現一個問題所以三之一期的最大問題叫關不保收啊你所有的事情都圍繞著這些廠商在做為什麼因為其實你們剛剛也都提了我綠電要把比例拉上來對不對我要滿足供電的需求"},{"start":26296.989,"end":26310.219,"text":"那你因為這樣然後你的政策被裹挾政府是標案的業主捏標案的業主開具力之後然後這個得標廠商做不到你不但沒有制裁他沒有處理他你還要輔導他拯救他改變規則這樣對嗎"},{"start":26313.002,"end":26328.255,"text":"委員我們這個目的是讓那個電費他的成本可以下降所以我們輔導所有的廠商解決他的問題主要的目的是讓他售電的價格成本可以往下走這個是我們最大的不一樣"},{"start":26328.715,"end":26351.81,"text":"你搞了三之一你打算搞保駕收購,你就一樣是乾坤大挪移對不對,國發基金又要來了,聯合再生輸一屁股沒關係,中鋼再搞一次,我是擔心到最後又是都是納稅人的錢,只是不同的名額而已。 三之二,我今天我還有什麼要講,三之二,國產化出問題啦,結果我們打算要放寬,因為WTO等等的訴訟,我就問,我就問,你當初設計這一套豐電短購帶國產的標準是對的還是錯的?"},{"start":26360.061,"end":26367.747,"text":"國內產業能夠上來接手,這個方向絕對是對的。 方向是對的,但是政策是錯的對不對,因為你的標準不對吧。 國內的廠商確實是有些進展的很快的。 時空的變化太快,我們不可能用一種策略然後可以執行的好幾十年。"},{"start":26381.436,"end":26409.315,"text":"現在的科技這麼進步嘛所以是我們在外部的環境的改變太大了你剛剛這樣一路這樣聽過來喔這個電業法走在錯誤的路徑上離岸風電這個給出了錯誤的標準其實原因就是能源結構就是個錯誤的目標所以你整套再生能源的規劃建立在錯誤的邏輯之上錯上加錯是全民要買單啦委員我一句很痛我很佩服委員在整理資料的過程當中但是你的出發點都非常的正確"},{"start":26434.002,"end":26434.042,"text":"紅森漢委員"},{"start":26459.418,"end":26464.883,"text":"謝謝海院長那請主委院長跟郭部長麻煩再請主委院長、經濟部部長備選紅委員好"},{"start":26476.4,"end":26491.336,"text":"院長我因為時間的關係我就直接進入重點。 院長我有看到您在很多地方也包括這個會期的施政報告都有提到會來大力的推動這個二次的能源轉型尤其是深度節能的部分。"},{"start":26491.937,"end":26519.291,"text":"那這部分我想大家都非常非常認同這是很重要的政策方向我去年在杜拜的時候參加聯合國的氣候變遷大會裡面他也講了這兩個重要的方向一個是要全力發展再生能源另外一個就是要來做深度節能跟提高能源效率所以這段時間我其實看到無論是賴總統包括卓院長包括郭部長都時常的表達對於深度節能的期望這部分我想大家都看到了"},{"start":26520.111,"end":26541.238,"text":"那當然在今年這個8月的時候我也看到這個經濟部跟能源署其實有提出一份這個深度節能推動計畫然後送到行政院會來做一個報告所以院長應該對於這個計畫的內容應該也有一些了解嘛對不對好院長"},{"start":26542.093,"end":26564.246,"text":"我必須說,其實我在讀完這份8月的這份計畫的內容以後,就是我現在可以拿得到的資料,我確實感覺目前的這個計畫的內容,跟卓院長也好,或賴總統,也包括郭部長,其實在媒體前面談到的這個期望,我自己覺得可能會有一些不小的落差。"},{"start":26566.411,"end":26584.763,"text":"這段時間我們其實也跟很多節能產業的先進專家們討論也希望能夠再給目前的這個方案一些更多積極性正面的這個建議所以在這邊我想來跟部長跟院長也來做一些討論那院長很清楚其實台灣並不是我們第一天或第一年來推動節能"},{"start":26585.771,"end":26609.102,"text":"其實大概有十幾二十年的時間臺灣都在推動節能那我們過去其實也花了蠻多的預算在做一些單一設備的汰換比方說很多的節能的冷氣啊冰箱啊那在工業裡面也包括很多節能的設備機台等等等其實我們過去也花了很多資源在汰換那這些做法其實當然都會有一些初步的成果"},{"start":26610.063,"end":26626.968,"text":"那最近我看總統院長跟部長都一直提到要好好善用ESCO就是這個我們節能技術服務產業來協助我們的工作那這絕對是一個對的方向可是現在同時也是這一群產業界的朋友一直想要提醒"},{"start":26627.918,"end":26652.799,"text":"如果要做到真正的深度節能的話就不能只停留在設備汰換的層次那他們都提出一個非常重要的建議喔他們說如果要做到深度節能那麼政府的政策或者政府的補助應該是要讓節能績效越好的人能夠得到政府更多的獎勵或支持也就是要看績效"},{"start":26654.113,"end":26661.959,"text":"報告委員我非常贊同您的這個指教這個表現在節能上面表現越好的人我們一定會給他incentive那至於這個incentive要怎麼做當然我們會跟這個委員或者跟產業的這一些朋友"},{"start":26682.055,"end":26682.216,"text":"來交換過意見。"},{"start":26700.492,"end":26724.067,"text":"那這件事應該做我也不反對做這件事情但不能只做這件事情部長報告委員我想那份資料可能是比較舊一點我們在8月底9月初的時候我們就已經有稍微在修正了那麼修正當然是根據這個這個院長的這個指示那我們現在先從大的"},{"start":26724.906,"end":26727.007,"text":"市長,我要說的事情是你做用戶的分類這事情我贊成"},{"start":26744.895,"end":26746.196,"text":"三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":26764.247,"end":26782.039,"text":"這件事情就是我們要說你怎麼樣走來評估你的績效我怎麼樣來給資源一個最關鍵的一個核心的概念尤其是尤其是很多的這個能資訊管理系統的部分所以不然我確實在這份內容就目前這是因為我這10月的時候"},{"start":26782.859,"end":26808.549,"text":"再跟這個相關部會要求請他們提供的資料目前還是沒有那麼看到這一點的東西所以很希望這個部分能夠先把它放進去部長這應該沒有問題吧沒有問題謝謝這個委員我們不斷的在update這個資料因為我們現在主要還是能源系統的這個改變當然您指教的非常好我們現在跟國外的這個業者也在討論怎麼樣引進這個好的這個系統技術進來"},{"start":26812.551,"end":26827.002,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、"},{"start":26828.337,"end":26843.598,"text":"市長,我現在說的是說,我們這不是只是對大的,也不是只是對中鋼,我們是要對現在的產業業界怎麼協助他們把系統性能效的績效評估的方法,客觀、科學的建立起來。以後包括"},{"start":26844.259,"end":26858.625,"text":"銀行要融資,它也要一個績效評估的方法,它也要一個財務評估的方法,這都是基礎,這是第一點。第二點我要跟部長講到,很重要的事情大家都提到,如果要把系統性節能給做好的話,我們就需要有用電大數據的data。"},{"start":26859.525,"end":26874.235,"text":"那這個大數據的data來做深入分析才能把改善的問題點給找到那這是很多SQO業者都共同的心聲那但是現在這個擴大data應用的部分坦白說在這份資料裡面也看不太到"},{"start":26874.875,"end":26895.948,"text":"所以現在這些data其實都是在臺電,所以這些產業界人很希望說臺電是不是能夠協助這些用電data的數據的統整分析,當然要顧到個資跟商業秘密的保障,這當然一定,但是請臺電把這些在data數據上面統整的工作應該承擔下來,給我們業界做最大的支持。"},{"start":26896.508,"end":26910.588,"text":"就像AI一樣,我們就是要有足夠大量的Data導入,你才有辦法找到最有效率跟最好的方法,其實道理沒有差很多,這部分也是大家的心聲。最後一個大家也講到,生物節能工作好像現在只有經濟部在做,"},{"start":26912.278,"end":26927.407,"text":"一方說建築節能是我們內政部在管的可是好像在這裡面也沒有看到建築節能的部分那也包括我們很多節能的產業包括節能的計畫它需要融資它需要很多財務的方案這部分國發會或金管會"},{"start":26927.927,"end":26950.162,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":26950.342,"end":26970.869,"text":"希望其他部會在更大的程度來支持深入節能的工作啦,所以這部分也希望院長可以看到,也包括現在的地方政府,在這裡面也看不到地方政府的角色,在國際上面大家都知道節能很重要關鍵的角色是地方政府,但地方政府也沒有進來在這份的計畫的內容裡面,所以這些種種我們大概提了一個這個建議,希望院長"},{"start":26971.969,"end":26998.901,"text":"可以再跟幾個相關部會討論一下有沒有可能再來優化我們目前方案的空間也包括把我們接下來要修的能源管理法能源管理法裡面把上述的這些建議的概念放到法裡面去做規範性的要求那所以這幾個部分是希望也是今天為什麼在這邊要希望跟院長來做這個討論因為這可能真的不是只是經濟部的事情院長可以嗎沒有錯我們在內政部包括關於建築的部分"},{"start":26999.421,"end":27010.605,"text":"還有在包括綠色金融的部分,我們都有其他的考量,只是沒有把它放在這個裡面。我們在這邊其實看不到這些內容。我們在這個產業新條例草案上面,第10條之一有納入節能減碳設備作為投資遞減項目。"},{"start":27026.97,"end":27048.218,"text":"部長我這邊是在幫你爭取啦希望其他的部會可以更加的大力的支持啦那這部分也希望院長可以來支持跟有一個這樣子清楚的指示我剛剛有做過統合的一些會議請簡單解答跟委員報告一下喔您剛才提到的建築、綠色金融我們全部都放在永續會議裡面都有列觀那我們現在也有在會議在整合"},{"start":27049.06,"end":27077.142,"text":"經濟部長跟我談過好幾次這個深度減能的部分我建議如果我們要有一個深度減能的方案的話這應該是要有一個跨部會的方案該放進來的我們應該放進來讓大家知道整體的輪廓這樣子那再來一個是院長我想跟院長再討論下面一個問題其實最近颱風過後我們有許多關於防災治水的討論那其實我想讓院長知道目前其實也有很多關於減災防洪治水的一些新的做法"},{"start":27077.822,"end":27102.239,"text":"那我一般可能叫做淨自然工法那這部分也希望讓院長知道簡單來說這個所謂淨自然工法的意思就是不再只是求把過去河川好像三面光的水泥化這過去其實也產生了很多的問題可能會造成河道的下切或者是水泥構造物被破壞所以你就不斷的要用新的工程一再反覆的甚至被績效這叫做永續工程做不完的工程啦"},{"start":27102.679,"end":27129.611,"text":"五年就要做一次五年就要投資一次資源那這幾年其實經濟部跟農業部他們其實也透過這個禁自然工法的導入已經孵化好幾個河川復育的重要的示範案例其實在國內外都非常有名包括像在花蓮的蝙蜥包括在新北貢寮的遠望坑溪包括南投種花坑溪目前的案例其實已經越來越多我自己也都到現場去看過其實真的做得非常好"},{"start":27130.231,"end":27153.481,"text":"所以這個做法我想跟院長講,這個做法其實有很多好處。 第一個,安全的防洪減災,這是沒有問題的。 第二個,農民取水灌溉也能夠穩定,這都被驗證了。 再來,枯水期可以不斷流,也能夠恢復棲地的生態。 最重要的事情是,他的經費常常只要那種水泥化的工程的二分之一,而且他可以撐的時間可能更長。"},{"start":27154.201,"end":27168.964,"text":"在經費預算上面都有好處所以院長我想請問你覺得像這種能夠兼顧多營我這邊的投影片寫說五個願望幾乎是一次滿足你要安全減災你要看經費你要不斷流你要生態富裕"},{"start":27171.848,"end":27196.538,"text":"是跟我們報告明年的治水預算我增加了159億達到550億那時候增加這個錢我就是希望潮也許不是這麼具體我們希望潮不要今年修了上半年修下半年又壞海豐來又壞大水來又壞能夠從有系統性的治水從上游整治一直到下游能夠排出這樣整個系統來處理"},{"start":27197.478,"end":27222.099,"text":"我希望能夠朝這個方向來做,謝謝委員提供這個。 院長我覺得不然經濟部、水利署或者是農業部也好,我覺得都應該更大程度來參考這個淨自然工法,我這邊有幾個期待啦。 院長其實最近我們看到行政院也在籌組水及永續,流域永續的小組。 是由,我目前看到是由鄭麗君副院長來做召集喔。 我自己很希望我們能夠把這個河川復育的工作跟目標,"},{"start":27223.24,"end":27250.351,"text":"可以放入到這個永續推動小組這是一個院級的小組我目前知道是政委有開過會了那請副院長來做一個督導來推動更大程度推動這個近自然的工法那這很需要由行政院的高度因為這是跨部會的可能有包括經濟部的可能包括農業部的那以這個做一個重要的目標達成剛才講到這幾個多營的效果都能夠達成因為我們看到其實像在國際上面下一張"},{"start":27251.531,"end":27266.327,"text":"我們看到其實包括像美國他們有所謂的健康流域計畫他們有幾個重要的地景、地形、棲地、水質、水溫、生態狀態幾個很重要的指標來評估什麼樣是一個健康的流域我們希望能夠參考這些國際上面的做法"},{"start":27266.687,"end":27294.707,"text":"那把剛剛說河川富裕的目標放到我們那個工作小組跟我們部會現在在推動包括剛剛院長說的我們新增100多億的治水預算裡面都應該用這個新的做法新的思維再往前走而不一定只停留在過去只是一味的水泥化的狀態這是希望在這邊想要提醒院長的所以院長我想問喔我們能不能替尤其是在包括接下來的小組跟部會裡面讓河川富裕有一個政策上面的目標比方說"},{"start":27295.808,"end":27322.361,"text":"未來4年我們希望能夠推動多少條的河川,達成這個所謂河川富裕的工作,去一步一步的完成剛才說健康流域的指標。那這個政策的目標如果出來的話,不管是農業部,不管是經濟部,下面的相關的執行單位都可以往這個方向做,我們就可以有一個新的治水,或者是新的水治理的一個新的局面,用的經費也更少,反而更健康。"},{"start":27323.568,"end":27350.567,"text":"我跟委員報告一下,就是有關你剛才所提到的一個河川的覆域裡面,其實他是用流域的概念從上游的野溪一直到下游的河川的部分,然後上游的野溪的部分其實會base在地景跟地貌,去設計到符合生態的一個規範的一個施工的工法,但是一個工法的改善,我會再跟經濟部這邊用流域的概念,我們會去訂出大概年度上我們需要處理多少個"},{"start":27351.107,"end":27351.147,"text":"兩位部長"},{"start":27385.674,"end":27388.336,"text":"謝謝洪森漢委員的質詢,也謝謝卓院長和相關首長的備詢。接下來,我們請登記第13位賴會員委員質詢。謝謝主席,有請院長。麻煩。"},{"start":27413.217,"end":27413.597,"text":"請經濟部部長及國發會主委備詢。"},{"start":27432.398,"end":27454.833,"text":"還是要跟院長說加油因為我們知道今天中午的這個總預算的一個協商是破局沒有破局的沒有破局還在努力還在努力所以是努力的非常的辛苦其實我們也是很害怕因為整體的總預算其實關係到我們區域裡頭有很多必須要推動的這一些"},{"start":27455.954,"end":27462.699,"text":"總統昨天在文告裡頭國慶的文告裡頭有特別講到就是說他要積極的推動智慧科技大南方的一個產業生態系其實對我們來講是一個很大的一個鼓勵為什麼"},{"start":27484.892,"end":27507.629,"text":"因為我想院長在今天早上就是要一路走下來每一個委員他的一個區域性的一個發展都不一樣那像郭國文委員他急著跳腳說太多的一個電廠在他那個地方其實我非常有感而發那早期在國民黨時代的時候那就是說"},{"start":27509.349,"end":27530.736,"text":"中北、清南那在小英總統在近期的時候其實南北已經慢慢的拉到了均衡了可是相對的在台南其實也需要有一個平衡的一個發展那本席的選區其實我們位在這個最偏北也是最沒有建設的一個地方那如果就是說"},{"start":27532.571,"end":27556.084,"text":"大台南要整體的一個發展的話在這裡想跟三位做一個探討那我們知道說臺灣目前最火紅的就是我們的那個護國神山台積電那台積電其實在7月份的時候那我們的黃仁勳來的時候他有特別講到就是說先進的製程的那個封章技術其實是需求量非常高的"},{"start":27557.585,"end":27575.133,"text":"臺積電的2.5D的一個先進的一個封裝,它其實關係的AI的一個關鍵。那我今天早上也跟部長跟主委那個事先做過了一個探討,顯然我是不是可以請部長就是說,"},{"start":27576.394,"end":27580.94,"text":"三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":27592.089,"end":27607.245,"text":"報告委員我想這一個跟你的目標希望引進台積電到柳營這一帶我跟您報告就是說我們目前包括台南市政府抱邊的柳營工業區"},{"start":27608.186,"end":27609.466,"text":"三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":27637.631,"end":27652.392,"text":"這個還有幾個條件,除了這個水、電、土地以外,人是非常重要的關鍵。 台積電先進封裝來講的話,他還是需要一些比較高階的工程師。"},{"start":27653.693,"end":27676.932,"text":"就是跟一般的過去傳統的這個封裝是不太一樣,所以臺南這邊一定要有一些這個人力上面可以補得上來,這是第一件事情。 第二件事情也就是說我們的這個園區必須要轉換成這個科學園區,這科學園區就變成是國科會在主導。"},{"start":27677.893,"end":27698.861,"text":"所以我建議委員是不是從這個方向去思考 第二個就是電的問題今天早上這個我想有另外一位委員也在講說我們臺南基本上目前的這個電廠但是經過我們盤點過以後 臺南現在的自主率只有25%"},{"start":27700.683,"end":27712.415,"text":"所以我們電其實是在臺南地區是不夠的那變成說如果說你有希望這樣的話我們倒是建議委員可以在您的這個選區裡面這個接受蓋一個電廠"},{"start":27717.301,"end":27739.893,"text":"那他就可以完全來支持這個300公頃的這樣的一個大型的科學園區他所需要用的水跟電那麼有滿豐沛的水跟這個豐富的電我相信這個台積電他們一定會選擇到你所希望去的地方"},{"start":27740.945,"end":27753.742,"text":"謝謝部長的一個提醒,我想在這裡跟院長做一個請教。 院長,你如果到台南來考察還是到台南來開會的時候,你最常會在嘉義還是在沙崙下車高鐵?"},{"start":27756.499,"end":27782.615,"text":"高鐵、嘉義、台南北邊或是南邊那我想你應該有很多時間就是說即使你到了比較中間的一個地方散化那你也會在嘉義,嘉義這個點下車那相對的就是說也針對的這個題目就是要跟院長做一個探討就是說不管是土地、交通、人才"},{"start":27783.255,"end":27807.864,"text":"其實我想在這個地方就是說不管是封測場還是說一個那個科學園區我覺得我這個地方它有非常適合的一個交通流量那在下一頁就是說我們來講的話臺堂在這個地方還有165公頃的一個空地那它的會線基地其實也是可以活用的"},{"start":27808.744,"end":27808.944,"text":"主席"},{"start":27829.582,"end":27829.622,"text":"主席"},{"start":27848.848,"end":27848.928,"text":"主席"},{"start":27864.295,"end":27885.862,"text":"因為南部的這個S郎帶是南部科技發展跟產業升級相當重要的那在裡面所有現在面臨到的問題我們都一併來考量但是委員特別關心是今天提到的這個大新營地區那我請國發會也把它處理一下那個經濟部甚至國科會如果有需要的話我們會把它很積極的來面對"},{"start":27888.763,"end":27908.699,"text":"院長,我再讓你看一張現有的這張圖,你看到的就是說我沿海我有很多力能的一個花店,那這個場區裡頭,然後我的水庫也非常的充足,我有台塘的陸寮水庫,我有白河水庫,徵溫水庫,還有那個就是我的烏山頭水庫。"},{"start":27909.94,"end":27933.8,"text":"這幾個水庫事實上還有就是交通,交通也非常的便利,我光是就是在國道三線,在這個區域裡頭有三個交流道,有水上、柳營還有就是六甲的交流道,那甚至就是說我還有台37線的一個延伸在海邊,那事實上還有86,其實它這個交通是四通八達的。"},{"start":27934.52,"end":27960.652,"text":"四通八達的其實我這個地方因為它後續發展了所以它其實有更好的一個空間有更好的一個規劃可以來做就是說我還在這裡還是特別請院長就是說針對的這整體的一個發展我們希望加入就是智慧科技大南方產業的一個生態生態系來講的話我這個地方其實是最適合的"},{"start":27961.032,"end":27961.052,"text":"國發會議委員"},{"start":27981.714,"end":28008.595,"text":"臺積電這些單位談過那因為他們也要考慮到整個地能不能達到時程目標第二個跟郭部長講的一樣就是他們希望是在科學園區所以因為有時程跟這個環評時程的問題所以是不是這樣子下個禮拜我帶著這個國科會跟這個經濟部的主管我們一起到您辦公室來討論細節期待我想科技的最後一塊拼圖"},{"start":28011.458,"end":28024.586,"text":"這個就是S狼帶的最後一塊拼圖有賴儀就是院長、部長還有主委的一個協助,非常謝謝。那接著要跟院長共同的來討論這一次台米颱風造成的這個我這個選區的一個重創。"},{"start":28027.368,"end":28041.321,"text":"七月下旬的一個台米颱風造成我這個整個曾文溪以北西北地區的產業的一個重創那我在這裡也非常謝謝就是院長多次的就是到我的選區裡頭來"},{"start":28042.842,"end":28044.243,"text":"三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間"},{"start":28062.179,"end":28084.295,"text":"我們很多很多的一個市民點滴在心頭在這裡也非常謝謝謝謝就是院長那我想就是今年的就是總預算應該是講明年的總預算我們知道又多增加了一百五十幾億那當然就是我們看到總統看到你也看到了團隊也看到了就是淹水的一個經費的一個不足"},{"start":28084.995,"end":28108.686,"text":"那在現狀裡頭我在這裡那個部長你可以那個經理部長你請回我最主要就是要再請教我們的農業部長就是說整個巴掌溪的一個潰堤那在清一的一個過程裡頭因為我們知道持續又來了幾個颱風大大小小颱風可是後續後續怎麼樣去完成它"},{"start":28109.446,"end":28132.384,"text":"那這個也是就是說,我們一直希望就是農業部積極的來協助。 一定,那裡陰雷60公頃變成一塊塊,全部都是平的,全部都是,整個一基都是平的。 所以就是說在這個治水的過程裡頭,我們是不是需要就是說,"},{"start":28133.345,"end":28156.974,"text":"大家 農業部也很幫忙 農業部這個錢已經到位了 那就是說台南市政府也積極的在那個搶修那我是不是可以請那個就是說做一個建議我們希望就是說採用多元的一個治水的一個手段 那我們希望希望就是說都敢旗下強化就是區域的黃紅能量"},{"start":28158.494,"end":28173.343,"text":"黃紅的能量,我想農業部長你是內行的,在我們現行的一個做法裡定期的清衣還是合穿的整治,提案的強化,我們印證在巴掌溪這個黃紅的措施裡,我們希望"},{"start":28173.683,"end":28195.119,"text":"是不是可以增加大型的一個新流域還是說增設它比較大的滯洪池甚至就是說我們傳統那個黃洪用的這個濃湯就是杯湯這種早期的時候其實在農業裡面這是最好的一個防治淹水的一個方式有沒有比較好的一個方式就是說可以把這個淹水的問題徹底來解決呢"},{"start":28197.84,"end":28205.641,"text":"我跟那個委員報告就是說針對巴掌西這邊這次的一個一個議題以後造成的這些農地流失"},{"start":28206.746,"end":28227.857,"text":"會後續會重新整治的過程裡面就像您剛才講的就是說有一些滯洪池是在地的滯洪是必須要的去避免影響到周遭的這些這些居民的部分那另外怎麼把水還沒有進到我們的農田的時候把它分流這個部分我想我們跟經濟部水利署已經已經在一些研議後續的一個規劃"},{"start":28229.198,"end":28256.284,"text":"好謝謝部長那我想說你已經很快的進入了狀況就是農業的一個淹水一個積極的一個處理的方式那針對的這個低窪的地區在這裡我要拜託這個院長責成農業部針對低窪地區的這個滋洪池還有就是防災用的這個農業的皮塘是不是有可能把它變成就是我們多樣的一個防水的一個新的新的一個那個"},{"start":28258.124,"end":28273.949,"text":"新的一個方法在這裡要特別拜託那個院長那接著跟院長再討論一個農業的議題這個農業的環境污染的一個問題院長你你你吃不吃臭豆腐吃了臭豆腐加不加青菜"},{"start":28276.209,"end":28301.223,"text":"加辣椒會加我想這個因人而異啦每一個人有些人認為說臭豆腐是很香有些人是認為說這個味道特別的濃不喜歡那其實工廠的會氣跟畜牧業的一個養殖場產生的一個那個空氣空氣的一個味道哪一個比較臭其實是工廠的會氣臭還是畜牧場的養殖場會氣臭"},{"start":28302.344,"end":28302.484,"text":"主席"},{"start":28360.905,"end":28361.066,"text":"主席"},{"start":28990.339,"end":28990.579,"text":"徐欣怡委員"},{"start":29021.206,"end":29022.647,"text":"麻煩再請卓院長備詢徐委員好卓院長好今天本席有15分鐘會跟院長討論兩大議題第一大議題呢給院長猜一下是本屆朝野共識最高"},{"start":29049.673,"end":29053.315,"text":"國土計劃法立法院的聲音是最真實的。 朝野超過70幾位以上的委員都贊成。"},{"start":29079.042,"end":29084.038,"text":"要延後,延後來施行。 那所以這個院長您"},{"start":29087.573,"end":29112.628,"text":"國土計劃法是在第8屆的時候通過的,當時本席就是第一位提案的委員,當初是邱文彥委員,他也是本席的好朋友,他提出來,我是第一個連署的。當時這個案有邱文彥委員,還有林淑芬委員以及行政院三個版本。"},{"start":29113.821,"end":29137.072,"text":"到現在當初邱文彥委員的提案委員 剩下本席到11屆跟蘇清泉委員。林淑芬委員的提案委員目前到11屆還有8位。其實本席講這一段就是要表達 我們都是支持國土計劃法。"},{"start":29138.152,"end":29164.245,"text":"而且這個理想崇高的這樣的一個國土計畫我們都非常認同因為我們當初第8屆就是憂慮國土殘破被破壞殘破不堪而且沒有規劃的這種憂慮所以我們才會這樣子支持而且提案來促成這個國土計畫但是過去8年在整個的推動"},{"start":29165.927,"end":29176.188,"text":"實施的過程﹖不算實施﹖推動的過程﹖不知道出了什麼問題﹖ 乃至於到第11屆朝野高度共識﹖"},{"start":29177.475,"end":29201.971,"text":"在上個會期到這個會期目前有十幾位的朝野立委都提出來希望可以延後首先本席想請教院長現在國土計畫法的施行有些障礙表面上我們看到九個縣市沒有交功能分區圖實際上的原因您知道是為什麼嗎?"},{"start":29203.915,"end":29211.277,"text":"是,是,就是因為對農民的傷害太大,對農民的傷害太大,所以大家會覺得說,我們這個國土計劃法,它整個的配套,各方面考量還不夠。"},{"start":29231.122,"end":29251.21,"text":"就要施行的話對農民傷害太大。所以首先第一個本席要特別請問院長如果只有農地沒有水源能不能產出農作物那當然條件是不夠的對但是目前我們的農業發展區尤其第一類第二類"},{"start":29252.352,"end":29253.392,"text":"現在水源的供給是不是有更好的方式?"},{"start":29272.6,"end":29273.56,"text":"所以部長的意思是現況這種情況是有改善嗎?"},{"start":29294.905,"end":29310.269,"text":"對,就是過去的特農的地區,會一直持續地去建設這種水源的進入。但是現在我們在各縣市,甚至本席所在的縣市,我們發現這個問題沒有解決。"},{"start":29312.667,"end":29329.573,"text":"二、有沒有考慮氣候變遷的問題?因為農民也非常憂慮,氣候變遷有的時候今天的糧田經過一個颱風或是一個氣候各方面的變化,我可能也是就會發生沒有水源而荒廢。"},{"start":29330.578,"end":29359.183,"text":"可是農民恐慌他覺得農一農二一劃定終生這種情況請問有考慮進去嗎?我跟委員報告不管是劃在農一或農二就從事農業來講是完全沒有影響的跟現在是一模一樣的部分所以後續的我們對於農民本身的一些支持也是一樣的那有差異的就是像您說的如果劃在農一的時候他沒有水源的話我們會優先去興建"},{"start":29360.023,"end":29388.899,"text":"所以你畫在農業的話我們更希望它是一個集團的一個栽培那是不是你新建確定OK你才實施還是你國土計畫法實施了它就是沒有水源這一塊你們要去思考接著本席要講第三點因為時間的關係我們現在農業經營的形式多元所以國土計畫法實施以後呢大多數的農業休閒地區或農場它會被畫為國土保育區"},{"start":29389.739,"end":29397.708,"text":"那這就阻礙了高產值的休閒農場的發展模式。 舉例來說,根據今年3月的統計,臺灣有2129個露營區。 請問卓院長,您知道這2129個露營區其中合法的露營區有多少嗎?"},{"start":29409.187,"end":29436.525,"text":"我認為比例會非常非常低。大概多少?你猜一下。我不敢猜,比例會非常低。對,不到10%。所以有沒有配套措施來確保我們這個它的經營活動符合功能分區圖的規劃?特別就是說,農業經營高附加價值以及多元化,不也是我們一直追求及努力的方向嗎?那國土計畫法對這個好像無視。"},{"start":29439.307,"end":29458.368,"text":"就是農業不只是生產而已,農業還有農村,所以我們在整個國家希望工程裡面,我們是以農村為發展中心去建構一個完整的農業體系。那特別剛您講的這些休閒農業區的部分,是未來在我們的鄉規、鄉村整體規劃裡面的一個非常重要的環節。"},{"start":29459.349,"end":29464.43,"text":"接著本席這個是這個行政院還有整個執行面規劃的問題那接著本席要特別在替農民發聲就是"},{"start":29488.359,"end":29514.706,"text":"我們農民啊他感到非常不平的就是說都市計畫下的10萬公頃農地可以作為城鄉發展區但是呢整個國家要糧食安全農業生產國家永續的責任就由少數農業縣的農民農地來承擔這個不公平啊等於我們政府把責任甩鍋給農民這第一點第二點"},{"start":29518.831,"end":29545.388,"text":"我們的農民他們都很有熱忱而且把捍衛農業、農地當作是他們的志業但是農民無法單兵作戰剛剛部長也有講到農民需要的是政府的支持、支援作為後盾所以剛剛您說的農村的規劃發展現代化農業的基礎建設還有它的這種產銷管道的整合其實都是穩定農民農業的最基礎"},{"start":29548.53,"end":29577.238,"text":"但是在整個國土計劃施行起來呢,我們感覺農民他獨自承擔,他獨自承擔整個國土保育的責任,這個不公平。因為有的時候,我也請院長跟部長要下鄉去了解,現在沒有錯,有些地方政府這個分區圖送上來,有些沒有送,可是基層有些送上來可能連基層他都還不知道這個國土計劃法的實施。"},{"start":29578.92,"end":29605.701,"text":"這個就是跟我們本席記得在經濟委員會也質詢過我們的部長不能像這個教改啊教改你跟那個現實面你第一線的你都不了解那所以現在農民呢他們當然也很擔心這個剛剛提的一化定終生一化變永恆那變成他們的整個被限制住那"},{"start":29606.898,"end":29624.244,"text":"民眾、農民對政府也不是很有信心,也怕政府欺騙他,所以農民有他的困境。 農民看天吃飯,我想院長跟部長都知道,收成不穩定,那即便大豐收,他也有可能被壓低收購價格。"},{"start":29625.524,"end":29639.311,"text":"那所以呢 農民也面臨務農人口流失所以我們的國土計劃法保護農地沒有保障農民權益 這樣是不行的所以是不是對農民的一些保育補貼或稱為補償"},{"start":29641.092,"end":29667.158,"text":"可以來實施,有沒有?我跟妳說明齁,其實在國土計畫實施與否的另外一件事情,我們已經持續針對整個的農民或是基礎建設,我們有一套完整的包括還有金融的支持,還有一些對地給付的這些堆疊的方式,包括生態的部分,我們已經有完善的一個推動,現在已經在推動,現在已經在推動,那未來在國土計畫在做區隔以後,"},{"start":29667.618,"end":29691.124,"text":"我們會針對特定的區位有一個比較更多的像生態給付的部分我們會做一些提高我們希望整個配套完善才上路老實說10月才推動真的太慢了不是我們我剛才講的這些支持性的這些包括基礎建設包括金融支持包括設施設備的一個補助其實我們多年來一直在做"},{"start":29692.113,"end":29706.755,"text":"本席也要請教院長,針對這第一個議題我要趕快結束了。我們這個整個國土計畫法功能分區的調整變更是否可以在最短時間內提出制度性的改革方案,包含修法?"},{"start":29708.305,"end":29731.487,"text":"而且國土,我要特別跟院長來提醒,國土計畫,計畫的是全國全民的國土。 農民何其沉重,要擔此重任。我們一定要為農民做好最完善的,不管他未來的保育的補償,還是很多剛剛本席提的這些問題,一定要解決。"},{"start":29732.554,"end":29759.401,"text":"所以院長可以嗎?身為一個行政院的院長,我本席相信一個理性的政府應該要誠實謙卑的面對問題。所以我們希望為了國家的永續,國土計劃法可以來施行。請院長審慎的考慮是不是可以提出更務實的檢討修正方案。我很注意到大院裡面有很多的委員希望延遲,但是"},{"start":29760.802,"end":29781.169,"text":"明明就有13個縣市送過來了,我也必須對這13個縣市要有所了解,因為在國土計劃法45條裡面,他又說全國要一併公告,也不能割裂,所以現在這個當中,但是您說的,如果要對國土計劃內容做檢討修法的話,那是一個方向,但目前要解決的是現在怎麼處理現在的問題。"},{"start":29782.189,"end":29810.094,"text":"對,現在問題所以要有更確實的、更完善的實施方案,我們期待行政院可以把它提出來。好,接著本席剩下的時間呢,要提第二個,第二個大議題,那這個大議題當然相信很多委員也提過,就是桃竹苗大矽谷計畫,這裡面也包含了竹科三期的計畫,尤其以新竹縣市為中心,向北向南,苗栗桃園整個來延伸。"},{"start":29811.235,"end":29828.412,"text":"這個未來會是匯聚半導體以及AI人工智慧等尖端科技人才,而且希望能夠讓桃竹苗可以媲美美國的矽谷、亞利桑那等全球最重要的半導體跟創新科技聚落。"},{"start":29830.1,"end":29858.147,"text":"很多人都知道我們這個科技整個要發展尤其AI它用電量是非常非常大的本期在整個大矽谷計畫裡沒有看到新增的有相對應電力的規劃尤其其中有一個科學園區三期整個台灣科學園區新竹科學園區那現在又有科學園區三期"},{"start":29860.153,"end":29881.829,"text":"這個大矽谷計畫它可以說是過去我們有台積電護國神山,未來如果能夠整個發展起來發展得好,那是護國群山,台灣的護國群山。所以這個電力的問題怎麼辦?很多的公司,我把它解完,很多的公司它為了能夠配合國際的規範,它都買綠電。"},{"start":29883.01,"end":29891.668,"text":"可是綠電在晚上很可能會沒有辦法所以就仰賴火力發電那這個部分相信"},{"start":29892.731,"end":29908.482,"text":"院長、部長都知道,現在夜間缺電的情況很嚴重。晚上的部分我們用儲電來解決,儲能電。對,但是你儲能,你到晚上綠電的儲能現在有辦法儲存多少?"},{"start":29908.482,"end":29908.522,"text":"有啊。"},{"start":29913.873,"end":29935.278,"text":"報告委員因為這是國安會在規劃的我們在整體的配套包括水跟電都有跟經濟部做過充分的討論那我們也都有對未來用電的需求所以靠儲能就有辦法有沒有考慮有沒有考慮核能會不會考慮謝謝委員我們列入參考我們考慮謝謝"},{"start":29941.152,"end":29942.615,"text":"好,謝謝徐信義委員的資訊,也謝謝卓院長各部會所長的備詢,謝謝。"},{"start":29950.916,"end":29971.985,"text":"十五號莊瑞雄委員、十六號賴瑞榮委員、十七號陳庭菲委員、十八號吳啟明委員之質詢。 均以書面提出,請行政院書面答覆,並列入記錄,刊登公報。 在接下來,我們請登記第19號何新淳委員質詢。"},{"start":29982.044,"end":29985.838,"text":"謝謝主席院長我們是不是請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":29994.964,"end":30020.581,"text":"委員長今天很多委員都很關心這個中午吃的和解飯聽說破局了那破局的原因在於正節點是在於這個原住民的這個禁法補償條例那禁法補償我是想請問一下院長你在今天中午的和解飯這個參會上真的說過行政院沒對禁法補償提復議案"},{"start":30022.682,"end":30025.983,"text":"這已是我對原住民的仁慈你有講過這句話嗎委員這句話問我不如問韓院長韓院長還在現場嘛對不對院長我們卓院長有講這一句話嗎那我來說我如果說錯韓院長可以隨時指正我我今天在"},{"start":30051.135,"end":30069.991,"text":"參會當中我的結論是說我這一段話我不想在備詢台上說但是有人把它講出來了所以我就把它說出來我說進法補償這個法通過之後很多人認為我們站在憲政分立的立場上行政院必須提復議"},{"start":30071.465,"end":30090.897,"text":"但我堅持不願意我覺得我於心不忍對原住民造成這樣的對立所以我於心不忍這兩句話這句話難道是忍辭的施捨嗎所以總院長這個剛剛還是你還原今天中和解犯犯局上真正的"},{"start":30092.466,"end":30118.206,"text":"一字不漏的言議。 是,我是這樣講,我說我非常不願意,因為我於心不忍,我真的是不想造成這樣的對立。 是,因為我不願意看到對於禁法補償的這一件事情,變成是在野黨背革整個中央政府總預算的一個理由。 現在變成說,用我說我是對原住民的人質,好像我是施捨,我從來不會有這樣的想法。"},{"start":30118.942,"end":30121.044,"text":"我相信總院長絕對不會有這樣的想法。所以造謠就是不對?"},{"start":30138.168,"end":30162.106,"text":"我要講清楚到底是誰講出去,難怪...我覺得是就是不是就不是,而且今天和解犯的這個犯局裡面不是只有韓院長跟卓院長,還有其他人。那現場的每一個人都可以來還原,而且呢來肯認到底剛剛卓院長的那每一個字、每一...那一句到底是不是..."},{"start":30162.546,"end":30191.267,"text":"我也謝謝這個韓院長人稱公道主持中立還有我們秘書長也在現場我再重複一次我再重複一次我說很多人希望我在那個時候提出復議我說我非常不願意因為我於心不忍就是會造成這樣的對立我真的不願意這句話絕對不能說是我對原住民的仁慈好像有施捨的樣子"},{"start":30192.881,"end":30207.411,"text":"這個話如果從高金委員﹚絕對不難如果高金委員的嘴巴講出來我就要希望是誰告訴他的那就是破壞整個今天中午吃飯的氣氛如果沒有人告訴他這兩個字從何而來憑空而出"},{"start":30208.531,"end":30237.726,"text":"為的就是要製造另一場紛亂而已是所以院長我今天的質詢第一部分為什麼要問這個第一個我們希望真的要和解我們希望政府的總預算案要趕快的來進入立法院我們希望趕快三讀通過有很多很多的預算都必須要被執行這第一個第二個我們認為這個和解犯的犯局裡面這個很多人都在現場是可以作證那到底為何會有"},{"start":30238.326,"end":30264.345,"text":"高經委員這樣子的一個誤解也好或者是他的解讀是這麼的惡意負面也好我覺得這個第一個對政黨的和解總預算的和解沒有幫助第二個我覺得也不應該讓原住民來背上這樣子的一個罪過其實原住民的權益我相信從中央到地方每一位不分黨派的委員絕對全力的支持跟捍衛"},{"start":30265.666,"end":30266.148,"text":"沒有錯,我說"},{"start":30274.676,"end":30297.054,"text":"也許啦在這邊動之以情的講話我都深受感動但是原則不能破壞兩院之間的院計分立不能破壞行政院負責的是制定編列預算大院負責的是審查預算如果一個法律就能通過一筆預算不在預算的大小而在這個精神這個原則之所在我必須嚴守這樣的立場"},{"start":30297.814,"end":30299.756,"text":"三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":30313.143,"end":30317.206,"text":"那我們請韓院長要主持公道我希望能夠要有下一次的和解飯"},{"start":30333.516,"end":30351.239,"text":"而且我也希望能夠呢真的在和解的氛圍之下趕快讓總預算進入我們立法院我們實質來審查那個才是真正對人民交代對人民負責嘛對不對院長所以誰願意希望趕快進行有誰在破壞應該看得很清楚"},{"start":30352.206,"end":30367.896,"text":"好 謝謝院長的說明我相信這應該非常的清楚非常的明白而且還原今天中午和解飯裡面的每一個字每一句話那接下來我要請教院長我關心很多其他的民生的議題"},{"start":30369.097,"end":30390.558,"text":"我之前在交通委員會上有跟交通部在提到這個外送平台這個運費的法制化那我提到這個目的是第一個消費者外送員還有小店家的權益問題那你知道交通部現在有訂了一個外送費率然後希望各縣市一定質疑而且預計11月要上路院長你知道這件事嗎"},{"start":30391.138,"end":30416.245,"text":"現在在公告期間,也希望各界來提供各種更好的意見來補足他,如果他有私律上必須周全的地方,也都願意來接受外界各地的意見,這個是公告。我現在是提醒院長,這個會有部會之間的不協調,交通部現在預告了,預告了之後當然希望各界來提意見,但是在另外一方面,"},{"start":30417.915,"end":30445.954,"text":"我在立法院推動的是這個外送平臺的運費必須透明化合理化透明化合理化就來自於剛剛院長講的在交通部現在預告的執法規裡面希望有更多各界來提供意見我們希望讓它更透明化合理化但是呢公民會主委已經站在你旁邊了兩大外送平臺送過要申請併購那還未立案但是但是正在補件"},{"start":30448.114,"end":30476.352,"text":"我希望這個行政院跟公平會這個態度立場要明確啦為什麼要明確如果他在補件成功之後立案之後那就要開始審酌他到底允不允許合併但是在這個還沒有確定有沒有合併之前呢交通部的費率已經預告那會產生什麼問題院長第一個公平會的委員人事案"},{"start":30477.313,"end":30505.083,"text":"我們有幾個委員任期快到了那如果接下來在今年下半年這一個我們的人事案呢如果沒有辦法順利的推動的話沒有辦法順利的過關的話那公平會的功能可能受到很大的影響那未來因應如果呢像兩大外送平台他們要合併的案子補件補完成了送進來了可是卻碰到沒有辦法審"},{"start":30506.343,"end":30508.924,"text":"公平會有4位委員任期到,我們必須在10月底之前把這個人選能夠確定下來,目前正在作業當中。"},{"start":30526.033,"end":30538.829,"text":"那至於說兩大平台之間的問題,我想公平會一定是基於公平交易的原則,一方面保護這個消費者,一方面保護這些業者,業者是那些運送的人的權益。"},{"start":30541.497,"end":30567.788,"text":"這樣的情況底下但是如果讓它形成一個壟斷對社會壟斷的行為我想在公平會的公平交易當中是一個相當矛盾的那這個部分我請主委來說明等一下請主委說明之前院長你剛剛講我們公平會委員的人事案你10月要開始作業已經在作業了已經開始作業10月底之前那院長你有信心說在我們今年年底之前我們所有人事案可以抵定嗎"},{"start":30569.994,"end":30598.317,"text":"我當然很希望能夠照時間走那公平會這個因為比較沒有政治性我們也希望能夠在人選的選擇上比較沒有政治性我們希望人選一出來的時候我們立法院、朝野大家不同政黨都能夠支持我為什麼要這樣子講因為如果有人不支持如果我們公平會的人事沒辦法通過的話會有一個空窗期那如果在這個空窗期的期間這個外送平台的合併的案子"},{"start":30599.398,"end":30621.306,"text":"立案送進來審議,結果我們公評會沒辦法審,在空轉,那到法定審查的期限如果過的話,那會不會產生還沒有審,也沒辦法審的情況之下,審查期限過了,那外送平台在沒有審的情況之下就合併了,有沒有這樣的可能性,主委?"},{"start":30623.049,"end":30638.446,"text":"跟委員回報,我們根據公平教育法的規定,這個結合案件有一個審查的期間,這個期間過了,如果公平會沒有做出決定,那這個結合的事業就可以直接去結合了。對阿院長,我現在擔心的是這個阿。"},{"start":30639.467,"end":30665.133,"text":"在我們目前審核的過程當中因為資料還沒有齊備等到資料齊備之後我們對於這個結合之後結合事業會不會濫用市場的地位去做價格的決定這也是我們很重要的考量因素我今天關心兩個點說給院長聽請院長能夠關注第一個點如果公平會的人事案沒有辦法如期及時來通過"},{"start":30667.193,"end":30690.712,"text":"那會有一個空窗期而這個空窗期的期間如果事業體外送平台他們兩家的合併案案件補件完成送進來了沒有人可以審查程序沒有辦法進行在公平交易法的法定的期限審查期限一過之後剛剛主委講的事業申請的事業體可以進行"},{"start":30692.045,"end":30694.046,"text":"第二,我擔心的"},{"start":30721.206,"end":30747.837,"text":"這個是立場的宣示啦兩大外送平台的這個併購剛剛主委講的啊我們在審查就是他會不會壟斷市場嘛如果真的讓他併了之後一家獨大就是獨佔啊一家獨大就是獨佔啊那什麼小店家擔心消費者擔心大家擔心什麼市場被壟斷外送員擔心什麼他沒保障因為呢只有一家他們最大說了算消費者擔心什麼會漲價"},{"start":30749.622,"end":30770.271,"text":"我是堅決反對啦 我不知道行政院院長你的態度勒剛剛已經跟委員報告過 我們在公平教育的原則底下 行程對社會壟斷的行為都違反 都跟這個原則相對矛盾 所以我相信公平會現在或是未來的委員 一定會本著良心跟專業來做這樣的判斷"},{"start":30772.281,"end":30773.462,"text":"各界的意見各界的權益"},{"start":30795.351,"end":30820.763,"text":"應該受保障,不可以被壟斷,不可以被獨佔。這是民眾所關心的,拜託主委,拜託院長。我們會盡快把這個人選送到大院來,希望時間能夠短。我也希望在野黨不要擋,這是關心民生的議題,希望能夠順利的來通過。最後一分多鐘,我請教院長,其實我們很擔心什麼?少子女化的對策因應問題。"},{"start":30822.452,"end":30850.272,"text":"我們知道在賴總統不管他在8月15號他的喊話或者是今年的國慶日他說要跨世代的照顧那其中一個就是對於年輕家庭跟孩子因為我們行政院投入了很多的資源就是希望因應台灣的少子女化那要搶救台灣的生產力一個不算少兩個恰恰好三個多麼好院長這個是我們的目標對不對那"},{"start":30852.436,"end":30877.486,"text":"問題是少子女化的威力太強大了,我們今年是農年,農年寶寶國慶寶寶,昨天國慶日接生聽說很冷,挽救不了出生率,而且推估我們今年農年可能出生率就跟去年差不多,人數也跟去年差不多,院長你對少子女化的對策有沒有加碼的空間,院不應該再加碼?"},{"start":30878.183,"end":30900.223,"text":"好,我們最近很積極在討論現在這個階段的人口政策,甚至我們要提出的是人口的對策,我們想要一整套的計畫,那這個國發會已經很積極在討論了,那中間好幾項目前都還在思考的過程當中,從大家多鼓勵大家多婚多生,但是政府要做更多的公托養育。"},{"start":30908.999,"end":30932.68,"text":"好,謝謝何欣淳委員的質詢,謝謝卓院長的備詢,謝謝。接下來,登記第20號張雅玲委員﹖第21號陳俊宇委員﹖這質詢以書面提出,請行政院書面答覆,並列入記錄,刊登公報。再接下來,登記第22號馬文君委員,請質詢。"},{"start":30947.394,"end":30951.237,"text":"麻煩再請卓院長備詢。我想最近其實還是有非常多的草野的委員共同還是在關心國土計劃法的部分。其實國土計劃法不只只有農一、農二的使用,"},{"start":30976.915,"end":30979.078,"text":"國土計畫法當時大家為什麼認同說應該要去推動很重要的一個原因是因為有些法令其實都已經是非常非常久了"},{"start":30997.438,"end":30998.981,"text":"三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":31012.688,"end":31012.888,"text":"國土計劃法"},{"start":31042.668,"end":31056.497,"text":"森林法裡面有規定58527之前存在的建物可以容許它繼續存在,除非它已經損壞掉了,你不可以再重建。另外還有一個國產法,它有一個82721,如果在這個時間之前,"},{"start":31057.998,"end":31060.34,"text":"三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間"},{"start":31088.378,"end":31090.079,"text":"三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間"},{"start":31109.833,"end":31111.495,"text":"三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間"},{"start":31126.351,"end":31150.808,"text":"我想請教一下那時候我們在108年為什麼我們推動在農地上面的工廠至少有三萬八千多家那時候因為早期台灣的發展尤其是中小企業都是大家可能自己家戶自己去推動發展一直到現在他可能具有一些相關的規模或者在農地上存在的這些工廠他在105年的時候我們還特別修法讓他通過"},{"start":31156.433,"end":31163.75,"text":"有20年的大限可是在國土計劃法施行以後這些怎麼辦因為你在"},{"start":31165.37,"end":31176.739,"text":"國土計畫實施以後反而更容易解,因為它可以用鄉村整體規劃去處理,現在反而比較困難,要用另外的產業園區的部分。國土計畫實施以後反而比較好解,就是說縣市政府如果它已經變成聚落的話,就可以用鄉村整體規劃,"},{"start":31193.231,"end":31216.684,"text":"那個有些你在森林法裡面他很多就是在林地上面他不會是聚落如果像你像國土計畫我們國產署裡面有很多也不是在聚落裡面啊所以跟我們的聚落是無關的現在有很多他其實就是分散的所以沒有辦法像部長說的這個是可以解決不可能如果可以解決之前就會解決了"},{"start":31217.765,"end":31242.32,"text":"所以他要變更其實是更加的困難,所以這個部分不像部長想的那麼容易,接下來還來第二部分就是公服法的部分以公服法的部分的一個執行跟現在不管你化為農一農二,那原來已經納管的這些過去違規的工廠他已經納管以後,那以非屬低污染的部分我們會持續的輔導"},{"start":31243.18,"end":31260.09,"text":"那除非他是高度污染的我們才會讓他簽上在農業地區大概有1100多家我們知道我們知道他是低污染的才可以符合那至少如果說還有這1000多家我想請教一下因為你在國土計畫法推行以後其實他在第38條"},{"start":31263.113,"end":31275.165,"text":"從事未符合國土功能分區及分類使用原則之一定規模以上或性質特殊之土地使用者,由該管職銜市縣市主管機關處行為人新台幣100萬以上500萬以下罰款。"},{"start":31279.282,"end":31286.233,"text":"這個接下來第二條第二項第二款也是相關的就是如果沒有按照這樣的情況他處30萬以上100萬150萬以下相關的38條全部都是罰則而且"},{"start":31294.745,"end":31295.265,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":31321.015,"end":31321.415,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":31351.656,"end":31353.679,"text":"三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月11日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間"},{"start":31367.139,"end":31367.359,"text":"主席"},{"start":31397.921,"end":31409.2,"text":"我跟委員報告相關的國土計畫裡面他有特別的規定就是可以保障從來是使用的部分包括你農牧用地的話就算你在國保區你是農牧用地"},{"start":31412.916,"end":31433.001,"text":"哪一條?國土計畫法裡面從來已經使用的是哪一條?因為我們已經有把它全部看過,就是如果已經有衝突,你在這裡你第38條的法則裡面很清楚的寫到,如果沒有依照你的分區使用的這樣相關的規定,它就是要罰。"},{"start":31434.261,"end":31462.674,"text":"我跟委員報告我會後可以提供你就是國土計畫有一個非常大的精神就是保障從來是使用的部長部長我們所有我們在我們民主法治的國家然後你要修這個法你要施行我們還是希望他在法裡面可以清楚的可以表示如果可以的話那些公服法裡面的工廠那他們也可以啊他們存在已經好幾十年本來是違規的還是違規不是說違規的在那個國土計畫完以後就變成合法的"},{"start":31463.305,"end":31482.786,"text":"不是啊 當然不是 可是你是衝突的嘛我現在就是說你今天我們在105年成立的這個公服法以這個來看他現在你本來應該要給他20年的時間可是現在顯然如果他在農一農二上面因為現在更去嚴格以前可能用公服法去"},{"start":31483.567,"end":31484.868,"text":"這個跟委員報告,就是農民合法的權利不會受到影響。"},{"start":31507.488,"end":31515.414,"text":"這個在農業用地裡面我們已經把它納進內政部納進國土計劃法的施行審査草案裡面做沒有?"},{"start":31515.414,"end":31522.159,"text":"合法的使用我們沒有意見我現在講的是其他的你為什麼會訂森林法585271為什麼會訂國產法82721為什麼會訂公福法"},{"start":31527.383,"end":31554.034,"text":"說讓他20年可以讓他在低污染的情況之下可以去辦理合法登記給他20年的時間就是因為在這一段時間裡面其實他沒有辦法提出很多的佐證資料因為有些人在民國20年甚至清朝時期可能就住在那裡那時候沒有國民政府那時候那塊土地沒有編訂沒有地號人家已經住在那裡所以那些因為歷史因素一直留存下來的我們後來"},{"start":31555.555,"end":31556.295,"text":"我強調一下是合法的才會有保障喔"},{"start":31584.192,"end":31584.552,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":31599.818,"end":31625.717,"text":"本來因為他早期他在蓋的時候他沒有他就沒有辦法取得這樣子的一個建造資料或者他的建造的或者始造的資料所以他會有一些相關的困難而且你在農一農二你現在把他訂上去他以前可能不是被編訂成這樣那你現在把他編訂這樣他房子已經在了可是你沒有任何的配套措施我要講的是這個部分所以部長"},{"start":31626.477,"end":31653.256,"text":"不要講合法的合法的農地農一農二就是表示現在上面都是種東西的啦你政府政策如果要蓋太陽能的時候你都有辦法讓他變成合法可是人家早已經存在的你現在沒有辦法幫他解決你倉促的施行你就會造成很多人無家可歸或者他必須拆除他現在的工廠那違背了當初你公服法通過的一個精神"},{"start":31653.456,"end":31662.109,"text":"國土法如果說你有納管的時候就會讓他隨著納管的部分除非說你沒有被納管的部分國土法裡面沒有任何一條說他非法以後國土計畫完了以後會變成合法沒有這一條"},{"start":31668.578,"end":31671.02,"text":"了解這個我想我們後續我們會把一些疑問我們會做釐清"},{"start":31695.563,"end":31711.854,"text":"不用釐清把法給我們就好了因為你說有嘛你說可以保障嘛你要讓大家知道而且讓大家放心接下來我想要請教的是像經濟部在組無人機的聯盟希望扶植產業在2028年可以月產1.5萬架賴總統更希望無人機的產值在2030年可以達到400億元"},{"start":31718.719,"end":31729.444,"text":"經濟部日前也宣誓成立臺灣卓越無人機海外商機聯盟,希望可以推動無人機產業國際化的發展。 我想要請教這個部分我們要怎麼做?"},{"start":31730.522,"end":31753.931,"text":"報告委員,我們現在的聯盟是由漢翔為主,臺灣的供應鏈大概有50家,技術是由工研院來接收。我們對美國跟對日本這兩個市場拋出我們合作的方向。跟委員報告,這兩個國家到2028年,"},{"start":31758.092,"end":31765.725,"text":"大概整個市場可以來到台幣大概5000億所以我們認為要達到這個2028年要達到300億應該是可以努力的"},{"start":31770.648,"end":31790.828,"text":"部長因為我想這是理想可是臺灣要建構這樣子的一個環境我覺得不困難臺灣的不管在我們所有的量能所有我們的技術等等要生產這些不困難可是我現在要提醒的是因為我們動用了很多的國防的資源"},{"start":31791.468,"end":31818.671,"text":"過去中科院其實我們投入非常多的研發經費我之前說100多億其實不止那如果連建想算進去建想他在我們的特別預算裡面他高達好幾百億如果我沒有記錯的時候是800億像這麼多投入的經費我們到底想要做什麼我們是美國的代工嗎剛剛我們聽到美國跟日本所有無人機的生產我們現在比較擔心的因為看起來這個主要是解決美國無人機自己製造的問題"},{"start":31819.412,"end":31819.432,"text":"二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50"},{"start":31838.659,"end":31840.721,"text":"委員 臺灣有機會成為民族產業鏈 這個對我們來講 對全世界來講都"},{"start":31912.847,"end":31935.124,"text":"郭文貴議員,現在國訪的預算買軍用商規模登記,跟發布黨的預算是沒有關的。所以我們希望你國訪應該維護的案件,就要把它維護好。你要去發展無人機的產業,我們贊成,我們支持。"},{"start":31942.645,"end":31952.888,"text":"謝謝馬文君委員的質詢,謝謝,謝謝卓院長相關首長的備詢,謝謝。接下來登記第23號劉建國委員質詢,以書面提出,請行政院書面答覆,並列入記錄,刊登公報。再接下來請登記第24號羅廷偉委員質詢。"},{"start":31983.86,"end":32007.02,"text":"謝謝院長 有請我們卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢是 羅委員好院長好 今天最後一位 辛苦了不會院長 我想問你一句話 城市因河流而偉大 可以認同嗎"},{"start":32008.373,"end":32035.499,"text":"每一個有河流經過的城市都漂亮偉大而且具有觀光的價值我們看到許多進步的城市不管是國外跟國內包括國內也有基隆河、淡水河、愛河都是令我們非常稱羨那我必須在這邊很不客氣的跟你說您欠我們台中市預算您欠我們台中市建設一千億多的預算怎麼算?前瞻計畫中央補助地方總計大概五千多億"},{"start":32036.459,"end":32038.961,"text":"今天我想跟你分享本席來自台中中西東南區你有去過東區的樂成宮嗎?"},{"start":32059.822,"end":32078.871,"text":"應該有去過樂成宮非常有名喔我們旁邊有一個漢溪那今天我想跟你提到漢溪的整治以及柳川市旗當然還有老舊校舍的一個問題我想漢溪這個部分想跟您分享圖片可以看到我們目前正在做簡易的綠化但是源源不夠我們希望"},{"start":32079.631,"end":32098.325,"text":"任何因城市而偉大的這些河流我們都希望能夠投入大筆的預算來做相關的整治首先我要跟你談到柳川三期的計畫可以看到已經完工了當時花了將近2.5億元我們非常感謝中央地方一起來努力"},{"start":32099.065,"end":32114.534,"text":"那現在已經完工了,我們希望柳川市期我在上任的時候不斷地催促經濟部,但是都遲遲沒有下文,包括旱溪的整治,我也希望能夠跟你爭取一些經費。 這個部分,院長可以給我們一些回應嗎?"},{"start":32116.295,"end":32129.16,"text":"部長說明一下報告委員 旱溪的治理率已經達到了98.9%當然我知道為完成治理護岸在上游豐原區因為涉及民眾私有地"},{"start":32130.208,"end":32149.217,"text":"需要先完成協議 其餘均已達到保護標準部長您說到的那個部分是在豐原地方我在中西東南當然你說的這個治水率已經完成大概90幾%我現在希望的是不只是美化或者是和平公園這樣相關的一個建設我們也會看多次"},{"start":32149.737,"end":32174.813,"text":"那以漢溪來說,我們現在在做的是簡易綠化,都是希望能夠有清水設施,那包括柳川市旗,那這部分您可以給我回應一下嗎?我們有送計畫,但是這個計畫被中央打回槍,當然有可能是台中市政府水利局所撰寫的計畫不符合標準,我們極力地再來努力改編相關的計畫,但未來呢,你們願意可以協助嗎?部長"},{"start":32177.148,"end":32191.603,"text":"我們經濟部當然是水利署他會根據各地方政府送來的計畫然後評估然後我們一定會去落實啦如果符合這個要件的話應該是沒有沒有問題因為"},{"start":32193.345,"end":32219.378,"text":"我們這個行政院編列的這個預算我們都會下去實施啦那我想對這個整個的防水啊或者是防災我們都應該今天在這邊特別提出來柳川市期旱溪整治我希望兩位能夠先幫我登記起來會後我們再來詳細的討論但我要提到的是不管是前瞻計畫特別預算以及柳川市期這些都是延續型的建設我想"},{"start":32219.978,"end":32239.05,"text":"這些預算都不會受所謂的預算法來影響到,都會有所保護,我們希望能夠來做一個建設方面的探討,這部分來有請部長,可以嗎?可以,我們一定會跟地方政府好好的協商,如果說地方政府送來的沒有問題的話,我們當然是可以下去做,總之會有優先順序。"},{"start":32241.411,"end":32260.496,"text":"第二個要跟院長特別討論,老舊校舍的一個拆除一個問題,我想國內超過50歲的老舊校舍大概有2200多棟,超過30多歲的大概有8300多棟,我的選區中性國小就有所謂的老舊校舍,而且是沒有死照的。"},{"start":32260.996,"end":32275.252,"text":"我想9月30聯合報也有報導地方縣市政府教育局的官員也在講我們所編列行政院現在所編列的補助款分到各縣市一年能夠處理校舍大概在3到4所"},{"start":32275.993,"end":32300.96,"text":"我們列車帶改建的老舊校舍是破萬棟 要到什麼時候才能夠全數完整來改善我想國發是不是能夠幫忙協助這個部分當然拆除改建最重要的是經費我們還是希望行政院能夠編列特別預算這是最快速能夠解決方法的那列車中有破萬棟的老舊校舍 院長這個部分能不能編列特別預算有沒有考慮過"},{"start":32302,"end":32312.309,"text":"我們在上個月已經合訂了一個教育部送來的公立國民中小學老舊校舍拆除重建計畫大概350億114年到117年350億那過去我們從98年到111年"},{"start":32319.383,"end":32336.761,"text":"也用了一千三百多億也改善了很多的校舍 院長我必須還是要給你打斷不好意思您所提供知道的資料有部分有誤我們可以看到這一千多億元是斑斑有平板斑斑有冷氣電力改善以及校舍以外一些比如說廁所"},{"start":32338.022,"end":32358.551,"text":"還有跑道來改善,老舊校舍實際補助的狀況是真的比較少,所以不要被教育部所提供的資料給混淆了,當然當然是美化數字。 三百五十億元我個人覺得還是有待改進,當然利益良善願意先三百五十億,我們當然給予鼓勵,但是我還是跟教育部說,太少了。"},{"start":32358.951,"end":32373.838,"text":"所以我希望國發能夠支持我希望行政院能夠編列特別預算在這個部分我必須拿出來繼續來跟您說明可以嗎?我們一起來努力為老舊校舍因為所有的孩子有14萬的學童都身處在這些危險的場域我們一起加油可以嗎?"},{"start":32375.116,"end":32389.867,"text":"我不敢說不可以但今年我們編預算就是沒有編特別預算我們希望預算正常化但未來可能有一些地方還是必須考量所以我說我們會納入一個考量的範圍當中我們想怎麼樣把事情做得更好"},{"start":32395.591,"end":32416.725,"text":"那我可以大膽直接跟您講350億不夠當然我們希望好可以更好要還要要更多我希望能夠為教育部發聲我也跟教育部部長說過他不敢要我幫他要350億元幫我在加碼幫所有的學童在加碼這個部分好謝謝委員加碼也請委員支持今年的預算我沒有編列預算的能力要靠您吶"},{"start":32418.347,"end":32425.739,"text":"三百五十億為教育、為小孩、為教育、為小朋友、學生,這個我想我們的立場完全一致。"},{"start":32428.362,"end":32450.983,"text":"再來我想剛剛我有聽到其他委員現在諮詢有關於這個外送平台的併購案大家都非常關心喔我想也探討了很多我就不細說了啦因為我都有聽到我想簡單跟您詢問一下就您個人的意見我想公平會的意義在什麼反壟斷希望他能夠公平那您個人覺得支不支持他何必"},{"start":32454.308,"end":32471.888,"text":"我個人的意見是希望我有一天我要透過這外送平台來買東西的時候我能夠有充分的選擇性而且我這個選擇性讓我能夠感覺到我是受到整個社會公平交易的保障的我希望每個人都跟我同樣受到這種保障"},{"start":32472.757,"end":32488.059,"text":"公平會主委,他沒有講得很清楚,但院長的意思已經讓您聽到略中一二,可以聽到他裡面涵蓋的意思嗎?主委回報主委,各界的意見我們都有收集,我知道你有收集,但在你旁邊"},{"start":32489.02,"end":32515.106,"text":"行政院院長講了他希望未來他點這個外送的時候可以有多元的選擇並且保障所有消費者外送員還有這個店家他們有這樣子的充分的權益這個部分我希望你能夠帶回公平會我希望你能夠慎重的考量我們反對合併我們擔心壟斷這個部分您旁邊的院長也有表態謝謝我們一定會慎重評估"},{"start":32516.431,"end":32517.799,"text":"好 再來 謝謝你的解讀 謝謝 謝謝"},{"start":32521.26,"end":32549.68,"text":"再來我想跟院長討論這件事情那如何不要讓社會的弱勢沒有良好家庭背景的小孩子在求職環境上 輸在起跑點院長在前天10月9日我召開了記者會認人為親為律 太除不適任的官員其中我就有提到當天有三位施藥署我們發現有藥廠負責人的小孩有阻密的小孩"},{"start":32550.2,"end":32564.577,"text":"以及不符合任用資格卻因為有律委關心關切而任用的人事案已經過了三天了請問本席現在要怎麼處理我想問一下院長因為我完全得不到回應"},{"start":32565.538,"end":32592.512,"text":"根本就是苟廢火車,不當一回事,例行性的一個回覆首先,本席與三位是要贖的這些基層員工,完全不認識,也沒有任何的恩怨。記者會的目的就是希望政府帶頭給年輕人一個機會,而且是徵選公平的機會,而不是讓這些沒有背景的年輕人作為陪榜員。社會的弱勢,沒有良好家庭背景的小孩,在求職上、在就業上,就輸在起跑點。"},{"start":32593.172,"end":32611.671,"text":"再者本席要問跟那些人事有相關的這些人事案長官是憑著詮釋來相互幫忙攀附這些詮釋在此人事案上下其手互相掩護嗎?比如石耀淑署長、祖密藥品組組長"},{"start":32614.293,"end":32640.883,"text":"縱容此人事案的存在者要如何懲處殺雞儆猴。 我也希望能夠得到院長您的回覆本席再次強調我們應該要讓弱勢的孩子讓正常普通的家庭也有機會能夠在求職在這個就業的環境上在公務機關能夠有一個正常公平公正公開一個同一個起跑點。 院長您覺得呢?"},{"start":32641.872,"end":32656.344,"text":"好謝謝委員當天所提出的這個事件在媒體上跟我們都非常的重視但因為這兩天剛好國慶的年禮我下禮拜一定給委員一個答覆我三個原則第一個他如果任用資格不符標準絕對是違法"},{"start":32657.665,"end":32671.435,"text":"第二、他如果這個人任用資格沒有問題,但是他從事的業務跟他過去的相關有太接近的時候,我們認為也不宜,應該有所調動。第三、如果跟首長有近親的關係,那絕對應該避免。"},{"start":32672.403,"end":32693.237,"text":"我還是再一次強調第一個因為他是藥廠的小孩負責發政我覺得非常不妥第二個卓密的孩子現在在臨床試驗科而他本身畢業的科系是兒童與家庭學系我覺得臨床試驗這個部分業務重大這兒童及家庭學系符合臨床試驗的需求嗎?"},{"start":32693.937,"end":32712.004,"text":"第三個我們來用這個案例也可以來說到他在6月多所開的職缺講明白的就是要相關畢業的研究所的資格但是可以看到他是輔大哲學研究所我們看不到他到底是符合了哪一個要點"},{"start":32713.364,"end":32739.704,"text":"這裏面的深喉嚨提供太多資料了我們希望回歸專業,我們希望公平公正公開從2003年9月到2023年12月他也是擔任綠委辦公室的主任這樣子的人事案明顯就是資格不符嘛我想我所提出的資料,院長您有看過了嗎?我有看過在報導上委員提到的,我們在輿情分析上都有看到,我們非常的重視"},{"start":32740.523,"end":32765.891,"text":"好 那我想這個最重要還有這個包括審查費啊逐年的提高當時我們對於業界來說啊審查費提高是希望能夠接軌世界能夠專業能夠快速所以需要審查費來聘請更專業的人而如今現在這些審查員卻變成我們看來是人事的酬庸是不專業的人在做這件事情我想審查費也會影響到廠商廠商多支出會不會影響到更多的消費者"},{"start":32766.971,"end":32784.918,"text":"陳誠的剝削都可能會影響到,我想這個部分您也應該幫我們一起關切。 院長可以嗎?好的,我一併了解。好,謝謝院長。那,再來我想跟院長請問一下,針對超失案,本席曾分別於7月9月含情農業部。部長,經濟部長,您如果沒事的話可以先回座,不好意思。謝謝。"},{"start":32786.724,"end":32789.726,"text":"當然最後所檢據的資料回應是你們希望我看到的,你們不希望我看到的我可能都看不到,因為本席沒有調查權。"},{"start":32812.064,"end":32840.658,"text":"簡據回應資料是如何我想大家心知肚明可想而知但是現在我要說的監察院有完成調查報告結果提出五項的糾正六項檢討改善意見院長請問監察院報告寫到續產會辦理雞蛋採購相關計畫連最基本的雞蛋數量品質均未進行驗收這部分農業部既然已經被監察院糾正並未盡督導責任應該如何辦理相關人員"},{"start":32841.448,"end":32848.463,"text":"我會請農業部就監察院的調查報告逐項的來與了解澄清或者做必要的處分。"},{"start":32849.176,"end":32873.517,"text":"監察院所作出的這份報告當中,我想這是有憑有據,應該不可能說監察院是造謠抹黑吧?對,我跟委員報告,就是監察院本身所提到的五項糾正跟六項改善措施,那我們收到監察院的文以後,我們也成立了請內部的一些相關的那個續長位的部分,針對監察院所作的最主要是行政疏失的部分,"},{"start":32873.917,"end":32883.725,"text":"特別是在整個採購的SOP的部分我們請他們重新去確認然後提出一個檢討的報告部長我想包括還有一個啊財團法人中央續產會辦理採購作業要點這個部分作業要點訂了沒"},{"start":32887.892,"end":32916.698,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":32919.002,"end":32929.565,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":32934.923,"end":32952.249,"text":"好,謝謝,謝謝羅廷偉委員的質詢,謝謝卓院長及各部會首長的備詢。報告委員會,本日排定質詢的委員均已詢答完畢。謝謝卓院長以及相關部會首長列席答詢。10月15日星期二上午9時繼續開會,進行財政組織質詢。我們現在休息。"}]},"會議時間":"2024-10-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第4次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。 二、10月11日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 三、10月15日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","委員發言時間":"08:30:16 - 17:40:00"},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}