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副總裁你有什麼看法"},{"start":150.643,"end":177.319,"text":"那個報告委員因為我不在那個陳菊我不知道那個總統這樣子的那個部長你知不知道那個莊部長是昨天在總統的談話裡面確實有提到有關主權基金的部分那我想主權基金的設置上一次財委會也開過也開過三題報告那在這裡面很清楚第一個主權基金的設置當然要做一個審慎的規劃包含設立專法以及未來"},{"start":178.052,"end":178.312,"text":"因為吼"},{"start":195.489,"end":224.064,"text":"副總裁跟部長因為尤其總裁有說過首批資金來源可能採用三種的方式包括由財政部來發債財政部撥款或由財政部出資來設立但不宜由外匯存底直接無償的撥用那我請問副總裁就你對資金來源的表述你認為主權基金是不是應該由財政部主導管理你的看法"},{"start":225.848,"end":236.174,"text":"因為主權基金代表是政府的財富的運用所以基本上是由整個政府來主導這個案子那總結辦會你認為應該是由誰因為這個還是在我"},{"start":242.383,"end":268.186,"text":"我覺得還是要在做跨部會之間的溝通跨部會溝通因為目前財政部已經有了國安基金如果再加上主權基金那我請問那個莊部長你們有沒有能力來承擔這兩大基金的管理跟運用有關主權基金未來假設要成立的話他的管理機構都有待有關在專法裡面要來訂定"},{"start":268.932,"end":290.305,"text":"是由哪個單位來組織這個部分行政院發言人也說了會再詳細的討論討論其實主權基金它的風險很大大家都清清楚楚而且你將來整個組織架構你要用專業的人士來操作而且"},{"start":291.899,"end":315.006,"text":"這個裡面到最後會不會產生問題因為講實在話我對現在的政府打問號因為他有很多根本就都是用酬庸式的而且那個裡面這是一大筆基金這是大家的錢也不是說由你主導然後你就可以遙控還怎麼樣這個是有問題的所以說我認為這個要審慎部長你有什麼看法"},{"start":321.848,"end":340.559,"text":"當然委員提出了這些問題未來在專法裡面訂定的時候要有什麼樣的一個管理機制以及什麼樣的人專業人才來做這個基金的一個投資策略的一個擬定還有有沒有決策的一個機構來做處理這個未來在專法裡面都要審慎的研議的審慎研議那你認為說就是未來整個"},{"start":345.982,"end":373.728,"text":"主責的單位是你認為是應該中央銀行還是你們呢還是財政部呢這個行政院會再討論我認為齁這個要審慎的去考量處理啦不是換了個位子就換了個腦袋啦過去你們是不贊成的然後現在賴總統講一句話然後你們就馬上來附和上議這個是很嚴重的事情你們要講真話對不對"},{"start":377.332,"end":399.865,"text":"那個閻副總裁你的看法呢那個報告委員其實我們從那個彭總裁論內我們都一直彭總裁就反對啦我們沒有反對我們只是反對那個外匯無償撥用的這個對啊你們外匯堅持說不行用外匯啊他可以用但是就透過去購買央行的外匯的方式去轉存到我們的未來的主權基金這邊"},{"start":400.825,"end":413.29,"text":"所以我要澄清就是說我們一直是提供很多的方式去處理設立國家主權基金的這樣子的方式我們沒有我們沒有反我們覺得是不合適用外匯存底直接撥用的這個議題我是認為啦總裁"},{"start":417.024,"end":430.762,"text":"這個因為副總裁那個我認為說這個要很審慎啦不能說上面講一句話然後你們就互合然後就怎麼樣去配合這個是很嚴重的問題要很審慎"},{"start":431.983,"end":460.043,"text":"那個副總裁那個部長你回去按照第一季李監事會的記錄央行第七波的選擇性信用管制措施在嚇阻這個草房降低不動產貸款集中度及協助房市降溫的方面這個發揮最後然而媒體報導各公股銀行統計前四個月新成做的房貸金額以件數普遍較去年同期出現下滑"},{"start":460.743,"end":475.988,"text":"那房貸利率則持續的上升上揚那我請問總裁幾波的選擇性的這個管制措施實施到現在為止你認為目前房市轉冷的情況是不是還在央行可控的狀態裡面"},{"start":478.083,"end":493.934,"text":"因為我們也看到那個房市的交易量的確是最近這幾個月是有走走走緩或者是下降的現象但是那個房價其實他那個降幅還是還是沒有降沒有沒有特別的"},{"start":494.835,"end":514.753,"text":"我們其實我們每一次理事會之前我們都會檢視我們的房地產的措施然後再討論這樣的措施的有效性這樣子那個副總裁那為符合政府推動房市政策國營繼續來配合進行不動產換款的總量管制那我請問考量今年川普對等關稅"},{"start":516.534,"end":536.435,"text":"談判未定那國際金融情勢不確定性上升的這種情況下你認為皇室是不是有進一步受到衝擊這是一個比較大的問題因為這是國際的不安因素啊因為我們也不知道那個川普很多政策未來的調整情形是這樣未來會不會鬆綁"},{"start":538.856,"end":563.323,"text":"調整整個皇室政策的條件之一會不會 報告委員我們每一季我們在理事會之前我們都會檢視我們的過去的執行成效那在那個那個場合之下我們如果有需要檢討或者是修正我們會跟央行的理事會去報告這個案子這樣喔 延伍總裁選擇性的信用管制措施對不動產市場的約束以及國外財經"},{"start":566.164,"end":585.916,"text":"經濟局勢不確定性增加讓民眾整個購屋度轉為保守來觀望今年來整體的黃式交易量較去年同期減少導致新陳做的黃帶下滑那以今年黃式交易新陳做黃帶的發展市場上"},{"start":587.077,"end":609.671,"text":"逐漸傳出央行信用管制措施要調整不動產這個還款的餘額的異常太樣那我請問沐總裁面對這樣的市場傳聞不時報導內容你認為是基於哪種心態或者是有哪些目的所以說才在最近出現這個這樣的一個發酵你認為呢"},{"start":613.168,"end":642.009,"text":"那個報告委員因為我記得在5月初的時候我們有已經有5月8號5月9號我們有一個新聞稿說明我們的政策其實暫時還沒有準備要調整央行澄清那信用管制現狀未改變那還是按照當前的規範措施未來是不是要調整理事會將充分的討論那我請問副總裁第二季理監事會有沒有可能最快的調整"},{"start":644.431,"end":656.618,"text":"這個選擇性的這個信用管制的措施的時間點會不會包括這個是由我們理事來討論所以我不方便在這邊那個副總裁你回應會滾動檢討房市政策並檢討檢視啊這個因為總裁有講過會檢視三"},{"start":665.854,"end":691.523,"text":"三重點啦一是信用管制措施的成效二是不動產市場的狀況三是不動產資源有無過度的傾斜再來決定措施適否調整那這個請問副總裁 央行信用管制措施這個沒有推出第八波是不是代表成效已經達到滿分的這種狀況"},{"start":695.421,"end":711.271,"text":"我們會注意到房地產市場的整個發展情形還是央行能不排除有推出下一波信用管制措施的可能會不會我們一直說我們在滾動式的檢討請問副總裁檢視重點二不動產市場的狀況你認為哪些條件花生石央行才會考慮調整的措施"},{"start":721.357,"end":735.751,"text":"其實我們在考慮房地產市場的時候我們不是只有幾個條件說啦而且還是有看整個整個國內外經濟金融情勢對房地產市場的影響的再做判斷這樣喔好謝謝謝謝好謝謝李委員的質詢下一個請吳秉樂委員質詢請"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":389,"blocks":[["林委員德福：（9時43分）請教一下為什麼今天楊總裁沒有來呢？"],["主席：楊總裁請假，因為今天主要排有關房地產的，相對主角不是他啦！"],["林委員德福：主角不是他？"],["主席：主角不是他。"],["林委員德福：我想奇怪！他怎麼沒有來？因為我要問主權基金。"],["主席：對，主權基金是臨時跑出來的。"],["林委員德福：對啊！"],["主席：原來題目設定在房地產。"],["林委員德福：好。嚴副總裁，還有包括莊部長。"],["主席：財政部莊部長、央行嚴副總裁。","各位官員，敬禮一次以後就不用再敬禮了，這樣比較節省時間。"],["林委員德福：副總裁，還有莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員早。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：委員早。"],["林委員德福：因為賴總統520談話提到政府要成立推升臺灣經濟發展動能的主權基金，打造國家級的投資平臺，請問副總裁，行政院財金部會對成立主權基金是不是已經有充分的共識？有沒有？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：就我的了解，我們在國發會主導下其實已經有討論過，有交換過意見。"],["林委員德福：有沒有很肯定？為什麼賴總統在520談話中就提出這一點？而且未來還是必須要進一步規劃、管理，以及整個執行的運作，這個不是說……這個主權基金是整個國際上的投資，不是像國安基金一樣，就是有時候股市真的很嚴重的時候怎麼樣進去，那個我們都可以接受。過去，主權基金也有本院同仁提過，他現在已經不在了，叫吳欣盈，他也提過，其實那時候中央銀行、財政部你們表面當然也不是說絕對反對，但是私底下大家都不接受，那你總不能說那時候不接受，現在接受。來，副總裁，你有什麼看法？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，因為我不在那個層級，我不知道總統這樣子的……"],["林委員德福：所以你不了解。莊部長，你知不知道？"],["莊部長翠雲：昨天在總統的談話裡面確實有提到有關主權基金的部分，我想主權基金的設置，上一次財委會也開過專題報告，這裡面很清楚，第一個，主權基金的設置當然要做審慎的規劃，包含設立專法、未來投資的規模及要不要設專責經理人操作等等，還有它的管制機制、管理機制都要透明，都要透過專法來做設置，以及財源的來源。"],["林委員德福：副總裁跟部長，尤其因為總裁有說過，首批資金來源可能採用3種方式，包括由財政部發債、財政部撥款或由財政部出資設立，但不宜由外匯存底直接無償撥用，請問副總裁，就你對資金來源的表述，你認為主權基金是不是應該由財政部主導管理，你的看法呢？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：因為主權基金代表政府的財富運用，所以基本上是由整個政府來主導這個案子……"],["林委員德福：那你認為主責單位應該是誰？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：我覺得還是要再做跨部會之間的溝通。"],["林委員德福：因為目前財政部已經有國安基金，如果再加上主權基金，我請問莊部長，你們有沒有能力來承擔這兩大基金的管理及運用？"],["莊部長翠雲：假設未來要成立主權基金的話，它的管理機構都有待在專法裡面來訂定。"],["林委員德福：是由哪個單位來主責，你認為呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分行政院發言人也說了，會再詳細討論跟規劃。"],["林委員德福：其實主權基金的風險很大，大家都清楚，而且將來整個組織架構，要用專業的人士來操作，這裡面到最後會不會產生問題？講實在話我對現在的政府打問號，因為它有很多根本都是用酬庸式的，而且這是一大筆基金，這是大家的錢，也不是說由你主導，你就可以遙控或是怎麼樣，這是有問題的，所以我認為這部分要審慎，部長，你有什麼看法？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然委員提出了這些問題，未來在訂定專法時，要有什麼樣的管理機制以及什麼樣的專業人才來做基金投資策略的擬定，還有是否有一個決策的機構來做處理，這些部分未來在專法裡面都要審慎研議。"],["林委員德福：你認為未來整個主責單位應該是中央銀行還是財政部呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分行政院會再討論。"],["林委員德福：我認為這個要審慎地去考量處理，不是換了個位置就換了個腦袋，過去你們是不贊成的，現在賴總統講一句話，你們就馬上來附和上意，這是很嚴重的事情，你們要講真話，對不對？嚴副總裁，你的看法呢？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，其實從彭總裁任內，我們都一直……"],["林委員德福：對，彭總裁就反對啦！"],["嚴副總裁宗大：No、No、No，我們沒有反對，我們只是反對外匯存底無償撥用的議題。"],["林委員德福：對啊，你們堅持說不行用外匯啊！"],["嚴副總裁宗大：不是，他可以用，但是要透過購買央行外匯的方式轉存到未來的主權基金這邊，所以我要澄清的就是，我們一直提供很多的方式去處理設立國家主權基金的方式，我們沒有反對，我們是覺得不合適用外匯存底直接撥用的這個議題。"],["林委員德福：副總裁，我是認為這個要很審慎，不能說上面講一句話，你們就附和，然後就怎麼樣去配合，這是很嚴重的問題，要很審慎。","部長請先回去。","副總裁，按照第一季理監事會的紀錄，央行第七波的選擇性信用管制措施，在嚇阻炒房、降低不動產貸款集中度及協助房市降溫方面發揮作用，然而媒體報導，依據各公股銀行統計，前四個月新承作的房貸金額與件數普遍較去年同期出現下滑，房貸利率則持續上揚。請問總裁，幾波的選擇性信用管制措施實施到現在為止，你認為目前房市轉冷的情況是不是還在央行可控的狀態裡面？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：因為我們也看到房市的交易量的確最近這幾個月是有走緩或是下降的現象，但其實房價的降幅還是沒有特別……"],["林委員德福：還是沒有降？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：其實在每一次理事會之前，我們都會檢視相關的房地產措施，然後再討論這樣的措施的有效性。"],["林委員德福：副總裁，為符合政府推動房市政策，國營繼續來配合進行不動產放款的總量管制，我請問一下，考量今年川普對等關稅談判未定，國際金融情勢不確定性上升的這種情況下，你認為房市是不是有進一步受到衝擊？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：這是一個比較大的問題……"],["林委員德福：因為這是國際的不安因素啊。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：因為我們也不知道川普很多政策未來的調整情形是怎麼樣，所以我也不方便……"],["林委員德福：未來會不會鬆綁，調整整個房市政策的條件之一？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，在每一季理事會之前，我們都會檢視我們過去的執行成效，在那個場合之下，如果有需要檢討或是修正的部分，我們會跟央行的理事會報告這個案子。"],["林委員德福：這樣喔！嚴副總裁，選擇性信用管制措施對不動產市場的約束以及國外經濟局勢不確定性增加，讓民眾的購屋態度轉為保守觀望，今年來整體的房市交易量較去年同期減少，導致新承作的房貸下滑，以今年房市交易，新承作房貸的發展，市場上逐漸傳出央行信用管制措施要調整不動產還款餘額的異常態樣，我請問副總裁，面對這樣的市場傳聞、不實報導內容，你認為是基於哪種心態或是有哪些目的，所以才在最近出現這樣的發酵，你認為呢？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，我記得在5月初的時候，5月8號還是5月9號我們有一個新聞稿對外說明……"],["林委員德福：有澄清嘛。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：對，說明我們的政策其實暫時還沒有準備要調整。"],["林委員德福：還沒有動。央行澄清信用管制現狀未改變，還是按照當前的規範措施，至於未來是否要調整，理事會將充分討論。請問副總裁，最快有沒有可能在第二季理監事會調整選擇性信用管制措施？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，這是由我們理事來討論，所以我不方便在這邊講。"],["林委員德福：這樣喔。副總裁，你回應會滾動檢討房市政策並檢視，因為總裁有講過會檢視三重點，一是信用管制措施的成效，二是不動產市場的狀況，三是不動產資源有無過度傾斜，再來決定措施是否調整。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：對。"],["林委員德福：請問副總裁，央行信用管制措施沒有推出第八波，是不是代表成效已經達到滿分？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：我們會注意到房地產市場的整個發展情形。"],["林委員德福：還是央行仍不排除有推出下一波信用管制措施的可能？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：我們一直說我們在滾動式檢討。"],["林委員德福：請問副總裁，檢視重點二是不動產市場的狀況，你認為哪些條件發生時，央行才會考慮調整措施？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：其實我們在考慮房地產市場時，不是只有幾個條件說，還是要看整個國內外經濟、金融情勢對房地產市場的影響，再做判斷。"],["林委員德福：好，謝謝。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林委員的質詢。","下一位請吳秉叡委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":380,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-13","speakers":["賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","賴惠員","李彥秀","鍾佳濱","羅明才","李坤城","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","陳玉珍","林思銘","王世堅","林楚茵","廖先翔","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷"],"page_start":299,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145101_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請財政部、金融監督管理委員會、中央銀行就「房屋稅2.0課徵亂象與金融機構對不動產\n融資緊縮及中央銀行信用管制措施對房地產交易之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、處理中\n華民國 114 年度中央政府總預算決議有關金融監督管理委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案 39 案；\n三、處理中華民國114年度中央政府總預算決議有關金融監督管理委員會主管預算凍結專案報告\n案9案","agenda_id":"1145101_00008"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}