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主席 現在林市長市長 您什麼時候知道林業勤林委員是凱凱案這個案子仿事社公司的督導應該是前一段時間立法院這邊講出來的凱凱案老講 現在今天談起來心都還很疼"},{"start":40.512,"end":65.448,"text":"心都還很疼 現在大家覺得很意外的是林月琴明明是外部的這個督導她應該是第一時間應該是很快知道凱凱被售內而死這個案子可是呢她一直默不作聲就我了解月琴委員好像在2023年底還是2024年初她就跟幾位委員很關心這個案子"},{"start":67.745,"end":85.998,"text":"大家疑問的是說過了三個月媒體報導說那時候的國民黨立委王玉敏他是兒福聯盟的董事那時候他已經被迫要辭職了當天民進黨還有十多位的立委到衛環委員會這邊來杯葛議事大家一定有印象嘛林業勤林委員也是其中之一他安靜從容地坐在這邊而且做了質詢"},{"start":97.486,"end":107.212,"text":"他一副還是以專家自居大家在問的是一個凱凱案的社工園的外部督導他盡了什麼樣的責任第二個 當民進黨圍剿王一鳴的時候你內勤不曉得他的責任也很重嗎今天台灣民眾黨沒有要向民進黨"},{"start":126.328,"end":151.847,"text":"那要去圍剿王毅民或者去圍剿當初推動壯世代的吳春城吳春城為了解決55歲以上的年長者希望有更好的生活有更好的這個工作也解決我們少子化缺工的問題也希望推動壯世代這個產業他在民進黨的"},{"start":155.919,"end":173.53,"text":"杯葛抹黑之下他為了自清 為了保住他的壯士代他選擇了辭去立法委員名字現在大家最要問的林業勤啊林業勤到現在盡了什麼責任台灣民眾黨不會像民進黨這樣去圍剿林業勤可是"},{"start":183.427,"end":204.073,"text":"站在人民的角度來看至少兩個問題要解決啊一個是凱凱案為什麼這麼悲慘的事情會發生我們整個社福的制度面裡面出了什麼樣的大問題這是第一個第二個重要的林內勤的角色他到底要負責怎麼樣的責任我要請教次長林內勤到現在都還是"},{"start":213.783,"end":216.346,"text":"淨堅基金會的董事淨堅基金會多年來拿了很多包括衛福部的案子標案對不對"},{"start":224.951,"end":253.201,"text":"這個我們剛剛今天委員有質詢到基金會那基金會這邊我們都是來接基金會來跟我們申請的案子好那根據採購法委員會這個應該是立衝法這些基金會來跟我們申請或者是來跟我們標案他們必須要提出當初民進黨在指責其他人的時候是不是講這就是在利益迴避我們也希望 老實講吳春城非常生氣說有人把他跟林業勤這個案子拿來對比"},{"start":254.619,"end":280.814,"text":"可是老實講你如果真的要拿來對比你如果講無尊整個利益迴避的這個問題林月琴這個案子嚴重100倍以上更清楚更多的案子而且是大家到現在喔林月琴到現在還是進監基金會的這個董事這是第一個問題第二個我要問你了他為什麼可以一個人身兼那麼多職他是督導又是講師又是評鑑委員評鑑演的這個委員"},{"start":284.693,"end":301.422,"text":"委員你是在哪一個單位我說你現在新北市跟台北市都提出來了對不對你在衛福部這麼久你也當過立委對不對有任何市長除了林燕瓊之外有一個人是負責社工園當督導的又是講師又是評鑑員是委員嗎有嗎"},{"start":303.143,"end":314.462,"text":"你印象中有一個嗎我們在醫界事實上蠻常會有又是醫師又是評鑑委員然後他本身可能又是某一些機關的評鑑的督導那也是一些包含指導的講師你覺得這樣"},{"start":316.963,"end":332.91,"text":"一個人申請這麼多詞是合適的嗎沒有這個衝突嗎委員我們只能今天最近這一兩個禮拜有多少的專家學者跟民意代表出來提醒這一點了你們是做一個改革嗎委員我只能就包含立衝相關的社福團體應該這樣嗎我跟您報告就是說社福團體來跟衛福部申請經費或者是標案那我們也要求社福團體依照我們剛剛講立衝的法他們要揭露他們內部的一些相關是不是有立衝的部分衛福部在看"},{"start":347.038,"end":350.551,"text":"談王詠敏的時候談吳淳祥不是這樣回答吧這是嚴重的一個雙標"},{"start":354.472,"end":378.468,"text":"我要強調 我剛講過了我們不會像台灣台灣民眾黨不會像民進黨這樣圍剿任何的立法委員我們要的是一個公道制度破洞了趕快去找制度面把它補起來第二個 個人該負的責任要負起責任這樣才是個良善的台灣社會有問題解決 有辦法解決問題的台灣社會所以有具體的要求"},{"start":380.529,"end":408.14,"text":"是不是林烈祺應該馬上辭掉淨堅兒童安全文教基金會的董事還有台少門副董事長 副理事長這個職務這些都是民間團體 民間團體衛福部這邊他們內部的董事成員我們目前沒有任何權利好 那我鄭重的呼籲林烈祺林委員你好好去思考這個而且我也呼籲民進黨不只不要雙標你們不要繼續包庇形同縱容"},{"start":409.693,"end":422.761,"text":"台灣人民都正在看這麼悲慘的一個凱凱案到底要怎麼去捕破網不要有這樣的悲劇在發生有人該負責的應該肩負自己的責任我沒有像民進黨那麼狠那麼毒圍毆"},{"start":427.97,"end":444.719,"text":"其他立委的時候逼迫人家要請辭還告人家我們現在只是從制度面從個人的這個責任請民進黨也不要再包庇請聶委員好好面對面對問題面對自己的責任解決問題謝謝好謝謝詹委員謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1175,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（12時59分）多謝主席，請林次長。"],["主席：次長。"],["林次長靜儀：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：次長，你什麼時候知道林月琴林委員是剴剴案訪視社工師的外聘督導？"],["林次長靜儀：應該是前一段時間立法院這邊講出來的。"],["張委員啓楷：老實講，今天講到剴剴案都還覺得心很疼！現在大家覺得很意外的是，林月琴明明是外部的督導，他應該是在第一時間、應該是很快知道剴剴被受虐而死的這個案子，可是他一直默不作聲。"],["林次長靜儀：就我瞭解，月琴委員好像在2023年底還是2024年初就跟幾位委員很關心這個案子。"],["張委員啓楷：大家疑問的是，過了三個月，媒體報導說那時候的國民黨立委王育敏是兒福聯盟的董事，那時候他已經被迫要辭職了，當天民進黨還有十多位的立委到衛環委員會這邊來杯葛議事，大家一定有印象吧？林月琴委員也是其中之一，他安靜從容地坐在這邊，而且做了質詢，他一副……還是以專家自居。大家要問的是：第一個，剴剴案的社工員的外部督導他盡了什麼樣的責任？第二個，當民進黨圍剿王育敏的時候，林月琴不曉得他自己的責任也很重嗎？今天台灣民眾黨沒有要像民進黨那樣去圍剿王育敏或者去圍剿當初推動壯世代的吳春城，吳春城為了讓55歲以上的年長者有更好的生活、有更好的工作，也希望解決我們少子化缺工的問題，從而推動壯世代這個產業，在民進黨的杯葛、抹黑之下，他為了自清、為了保住他的壯世代，他選擇辭去立法委員以明志。現在大家就要問，林月琴呢？林月琴到現在盡了什麼責任？","台灣民眾黨不會像民進黨這樣去圍剿林月琴，可是站在人民的角度來看，至少有兩個問題要解決啊！一個是剴剴案，為什麼這麼悲慘的事情會發生？我們整個社福制度面出了什麼樣的大問題？這是第一個。第二個，林月琴這一個重要角色，他到底要負起怎麼樣的責任？我要請教次長。林月琴到現在都還是靖娟基金會的董事，靖娟基金會多年來拿了很多包括衛福部的標案，對不對？"],["林次長靜儀：今天委員有質詢到基金會，基金會這邊，我們都是來接基金會來跟我們申請的案子。根據採購法……應該是利衝法，這些基金會來跟我們申請或者是來跟我們標案，他們必須要提出……"],["張委員啓楷：當初民進黨在指責其他人的時候，是不是講這就是要利益迴避？"],["林次長靜儀：我們也……"],["張委員啓楷：老實講，吳春城非常生氣，因為有人把他跟林月琴的案子拿來對比，老實講，如果真的要拿來對比，你如果講吳春城有利益迴避的這個問題，林月琴這個案子嚴重100倍以上！更清楚、更多的案子，而且是到現在喔！林月琴到現在還是靖娟基金會的董事，這是第一個問題。第二個，我要問你，他為什麼可以一個人身兼那麼多職務，他是督導、又是講師、又是評鑑員的委員，包山包海！"],["林次長靜儀：委員您是問哪一個單位？"],["張委員啓楷：我說現在新北市跟臺北市都提出來了嘛，對不對？你在衛福部這麼久……"],["林次長靜儀：沒有很久，一年。"],["張委員啓楷：也當過立委，對不對？次長，除了林月琴之外，有一個人是負責社工員當督導、又是講師、又是評鑑員委員嗎？有嗎？你印象中有任何一個嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：我們在醫界事實上滿常會有，他是醫師、又是評鑑委員，然後他本身可能又是某一些機關的評鑑的督導，也是一些包含指導的講師。"],["張委員啓楷：你覺得一個人這樣身兼這麼多職務是合適的嗎？沒有衝突嗎？最近這一、兩個禮拜，有多少的專家學者跟民意代表出來提醒這一點了，你們有去做一個改革嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：委員，我只能就包含利衝相關的……"],["張委員啓楷：你說醫界碰到的……社福團體也應該這樣嗎？"],["林次長靜儀：我跟您報告，社福團體來跟衛福部申請經費或者是標案，那我們也要求社福團體依照剛剛講的利衝法，他們要揭露他們內部一些相關是不是有利益衝突的部分……"],["張委員啓楷：衛福部在談王育敏、談吳春城的時候不是這樣回答吧？這是嚴重的雙標。"],["林次長靜儀：委員，外督跟董事是不一樣的。"],["張委員啓楷：我要強調，我剛講過了，我們台灣民眾黨不會像民進黨這樣圍剿任何的立法委員，我們要的是一個公道！制度破洞了，就趕快從制度面把它補起來。第二個，個人該負的責任就要負起責任，這樣才是一個良善的臺灣社會、有辦法解決問題的臺灣社會。所以我具體的要求，林月琴是不是應該馬上辭掉靖娟兒童安全文教基金會的董事？還有台少盟副理事長這個職務？"],["林次長靜儀：這些都是民間團體，民間團體他們內部的董事成員，我們衛福部沒有任何……"],["張委員啓楷：我鄭重地呼籲林月琴委員好好去思考這個，而且我也呼籲民進黨，不只不要雙標，你們不要繼續包庇，否則就形同縱容，臺灣人民都正在看，這麼悲慘的一個剴剴案，政府到底要怎麼去補破網，不要再有這樣的悲劇發生，有人該負責的，應該肩負起自己的責任。我沒有像民進黨那麼狠、那麼毒地圍毆其他立委的時候，逼迫人家要請辭，還要告人家！我們現在只是從制度面、從個人的責任來談，請民進黨也不要再包庇，請林月琴委員好好面對問題、面對你自己的責任、解決問題。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張委員、謝謝次長。","接下來我們請范雲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":138,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-12","speakers":["蘇清泉","林月琴","陳昭姿","徐巧芯","盧縣一","黃國昌","劉建國","涂權吉","林淑芬","陳菁徽","陳培瑜","郭昱晴","黃秀芳","洪孟楷","張啓楷","范雲","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","楊曜","賴惠員","葉元之","王育敏","陳冠廷","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","黃捷"],"page_start":43,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部、教育部就「性騷擾防治及外聘督導制度精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1145201_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}