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觀光署其實也跟得上潮流他也設立了一個叫歐雄AI小幫手的一個平台署長應該有啦是署長你自己測試過這個平台沒有"},{"start":51.263,"end":71.182,"text":"我們有請同仁一起測試因為我們現在是希望能夠疫情之後把AI也協助旅行業旅館業希望能夠帶動所以我們自己本身也在試著一個小平台我也知道啦就是說第一個我覺得我肯定光屬跟得上時代潮流"},{"start":72.104,"end":81.641,"text":"也知道AI未來的運用可以幫忙大家做很多的事情所以你們也開始嘗試做一點測試但是這個是上限的平台"},{"start":82.554,"end":103.022,"text":"所以我問部長跟署長有沒有自己上去測試過我知道有這個系統但是我沒有測試過我是上去看我上去看過我沒有加入我請辦公室的助理幫我測試一下那我就很簡單的講就好了其實我對這種我都覺得"},{"start":105.393,"end":128.972,"text":"不成熟的東西不要拿出來你知道觀光署所代表的是中華民國的觀光產業它代表的是交通部也就是它是中華民國這種強調我們觀光要立國我們曾經有千萬來客觀光署是一個象徵一個代表那我們推出了這個AI小幫手的服務平台"},{"start":129.895,"end":151.302,"text":"我請助理輸入幾個東西比如說第一個我想知道中永和好吃的麵包在哪裡他回答是很抱歉找不到相關的資料你可以進一步查詢各個景點的資料庫喔然後再來請介紹一下永和著名的甜點同樣回答的是一樣的東西"},{"start":152.526,"end":174.435,"text":"那請介紹永和的觀光景點其實越問越大啦一樣的道理叫你建議參考新北市政府的觀光旅遊的網站然後問說想要從台北想要台北就簡單講請AI台北進行騎自行車環島應該怎麼安排我們的平台出現的"},{"start":181.84,"end":203.142,"text":"三天的行程是還台北市的行程我說台北市出發要騎自行車怎麼還台你們給我的是三天還台北市的行程好那剛剛這些問題其實不要講AI啦我們講到AI實在是太羞辱AI了我們"},{"start":204.465,"end":228.518,"text":"台灣有Internet之後我們連我們只要在Google上面輸入永和有什麼好吃的中和有什麼好吃的我們台中的清水有什麼好吃的我想都可以跑出一大堆的東西出來還沒到AI啦搜尋網站就可以不用用到AI啦也就是還不大需要用到智慧"},{"start":229.518,"end":255.664,"text":"只要你有搜尋功能就可以做到我們不夠周圍人應該加一個試用版因為我們也知道說這件事情我們希望成立一個PMO我們工研院來協助我們那麼現在我們也有支撐會來協助我們這件事情也覺得22個縣市政府做的力道不夠但是六都做的還不錯那我們希望能夠把它串起來我們會加一個試用版上這個就是說"},{"start":257.306,"end":284.529,"text":"部長 署長你們也都知道大家現在可以花錢訂閱CHAP GPT吧對 沒錯你可以輸入它比Google更好用因為它加入人工智慧可以真正的AI讓你排成告訴你哪裡可以你可以去哪裡中午去哪裡吃怎麼它幫你排好了雖然它還是有一點小缺點但是比起過去我們傳統用Google的搜尋它其實好很多"},{"start":285.905,"end":315.391,"text":"我的意思就是說台灣一般大家會認知什麼叫AI就他買了chip GPT幫你排排好之後大家都還在裡面要討論或者修正那中華民國政府主管觀光的的一個AI平台結果出來的是連提供最基本的資料都沒有我們稱之為代表著中華民國觀光署的AI的小幫手"},{"start":316.94,"end":340.736,"text":"那個蘇發部長也在齁 部長你們也在推動政府AI應用實驗站的這個計畫在你的看法交通部啊 觀光署啊 推這樣的一個所謂的AI平台 部長作為一個專家 作為這個數位發展的主管機關 你的看法是什麼"},{"start":341.275,"end":364.797,"text":"我想這個方向是對的,那資料的訓練可能還需要再加強那有一些新的技術,像什麼RAC這種技術可以導入可以增加這個網站的使用性,這個我們會跟交通部再來合作你們這個實驗站,恐怕第一個要趕快請幫忙一下觀光署啦恐怕你要第一個趕快,因為我就幫你測試一下你們實驗站二月就開課了嘛"},{"start":366.658,"end":391.354,"text":"但是我對到今天已經五月了讓我們還看到這樣子因為我覺得這樣的東西其實對觀光署是一個很大的羞辱啦就中華民國的觀光主管機關推一個AI連Google的搜尋入口網站都不如我們名字叫AI我覺得這個是很奇怪的你要服務大家你應該是怎麼樣你的Data的訓練"},{"start":393.243,"end":410.834,"text":"ChipGVT把所有網路上面的資料他都拿來訓練他告訴我們的我們都還覺得不一定很優還要在人工加以優化那現在呢我們在訓練他的方式是只有政府內部的資料"},{"start":413.157,"end":437.613,"text":"部長你覺得這樣的訓練出來可堪用嗎我們也在準備這些資料來做訓練所以我們會協助交通部把這個系統的訓練的更好所以這樣子是不合格的啦對不對部長我們會再跟交通部所以我沒有惡意啦我只是說署長我們要做我們就一定要有一個基本的樣子"},{"start":438.934,"end":462.51,"text":"因為你丟這個出來 只會讓網路上大家不斷地三笑說原來中華民國 光光鼠的AI說什麼叫AI 就長這個樣子台灣人笑完也就算了 我們號稱科技大國 我們還有速發部喔結果我們在國外 如果這個外國人不管他在台灣 他來台灣要搜尋 結果長這個樣子這個"},{"start":466.51,"end":483.263,"text":"很好笑啦說實在話所以我沒有反對你做這個我只是覺得做任何的網站包括你觀光署下面你各個相關的這些風景區管理服務平台或者什麼一大堆的到底"},{"start":483.883,"end":499.689,"text":"效果如何 做這些東西要進入了一個新紀元 就是AI的新紀元那到底你們準備好了沒有不要齁 這樣打出來說 我就有在做了 現在就有在做這個這個齁 我覺得不好啦 署長你覺得呢"},{"start":501.85,"end":527.87,"text":"謝謝委員指教但是因為我們重點當初同仁提的時候重點在歐貝爾重點在這個歐雄也就是歐雄比過去的歐雄能夠更進步一點所以我們嘗試的讓同仁有些這個衝擊那委員提示的也是我們覺得私律還是不夠周到但是表示我們PMO還要必須要加強那這個部分如果說不"},{"start":529.391,"end":552.225,"text":"能夠來協助我們 我們覺得是更感謝我建議就是說 先弄好再推出啦不急嘛速發部都還在教政府各單位怎麼應用實驗站觀光署要走在前面我沒意見你至少做一個CHAP GPT不要差太遠的啦不要差太遠 大家覺得說CHAP GPT要用錢去買觀光署服務我們不用錢的"},{"start":553.237,"end":558.307,"text":"但是他只限旅遊的問題 他沒辦法問其他的問題OK啊 我覺得這很讚啊"},{"start":559.512,"end":585.698,"text":"你跟他合作都可以啦就是你怎麼把旅遊的資訊你跟他有一個區隔雖然但是市場人家已經走到這裡了政府機關離人家太遠搞不過去啦這樣懂我的意思啦好因為時間的關係我只剩下最後一個問題我想請問一下那個現在我們那個訂房率啊現在不公開他的思維是什麼"},{"start":586.959,"end":612.936,"text":"並不是不公開而是現在的訂房率被大家誤認為是住房率那麼其實在現在的分析裡面發現就是說現在的疫情之後大家的訂房的決定的時間點越來越晚那我們在15天就宣布的時候其實這種宣布的方式其實會影響一些選擇行為我的意思是說你們科學的認證裡面發現公佈"},{"start":616.311,"end":632.367,"text":"公布台灣各個地區各個縣市或者觀光景點它的住房率幾%它所產生的負面衝擊是什麼比正面衝擊還大那是什麼譬如說現在有50%是當天才決定要去住宿的"},{"start":633.874,"end":646.991,"text":"報告員當時我所理解的會有這個數據的公布主要是為了讓地方政府方便因為如果說電房率很高的時候他們交通輸運上面要怎麼去準備還有我們自己風景區的那個要怎麼整備"},{"start":648.353,"end":665.501,"text":"但是後來發現這個參考的價值越來越低是因為現在大家的定房率習慣上50%的人是前一天才決定那我們這個公布是前15天就公布所以那個參考價值其實是相對低但是我們現在公布的是定房率前三名的給民眾參考 參考什麼"},{"start":666.361,"end":690.47,"text":"有哪幾個縣市它的訂房率特別高如果想去那裡遊玩的人你要訂房可能要趕快訂或者是說交通上要趕快先準備這個部分我還是會公布那但是其他部分或許可以考慮啦要不要前一天再公布或者是直接住房率直接公布也是可以的因為我不了解這樣的利弊啦所以我今天來特別請教是譬如說以我的消費行為來看"},{"start":691.61,"end":714.942,"text":"如果我發現這個連假前兩個禮拜你告訴我哪裡已經大塞已經九成了因為我可以有替代性嘛我一年有幾個假期那我就先挑不要跟人家擠的那我可能對我這種消費者而言我就找不到哪裡是不擠的我們現在前三名比較多訂房的地方我們會公布還是有"},{"start":715.362,"end":731.393,"text":"我知道我知道我的意思是說以前全公布我才知道說我的選擇可以選擇不用去人擠人的位置在哪裡那所以以前也是全公布現在你只公布前三名所以你公布了前三名我並不知道第四名會也一樣是不是也一樣擁擠"},{"start":732.774,"end":748.632,"text":"所以我的意思是說 站在我這種消費者而言我不懂為什麼你不讓我知道最不擁擠的這一個假期最不擁擠的地點到底在哪裡我的意思只是詢問這個所以我的意思是說你們應該是不是在"},{"start":749.893,"end":778.024,"text":"再跟那個觀光業者或者消費者之間再評估一下啦到底是怎麼樣公布是最好的因為我也不知道但是我只是站在我這一種消費者立場我會覺得很不方便以前很方便以前你們的指標就是告訴我這一個連駕不要去哪裡因為那裡實在是房間也很難訂車子又多所以我會選其他還好這個地方還蠻容易訂的沒有你們這個資訊我只好到處去"},{"start":779.324,"end":793.496,"text":"訂房網站去搜尋嘛看哪裡的最好訂就表示這個假期那裡少所以我的意思在評估一下看怎麼樣公布是對消費者好對這個業者也好好不好好謝謝好謝謝委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1532,"blocks":[["蔡委員其昌：（11時34分）謝謝主席。請陳部長跟觀光署周署長。"],["主席：請陳部長、周署長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["蔡委員其昌：部長午安。今天剛好數發部也在，所以我想我們可以就一些AI的題目進行探討。我看了一下，觀光署其實也跟得上潮流啦！設立了一個名叫「喔熊AI小幫手」的平臺，署長，應該有啦！"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：署長，你自己測試過這個平臺沒有？"],["周署長永暉：我有請同仁一起測試。我們現在是希望能夠趁疫情之後，也以AI協助帶動旅行業、旅館業，所以自己也在試這個小平臺。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，我也知道啦！第一，我肯定觀光署跟得上時代潮流，也知道AI未來應用可以幫忙大家做很多事情，所以你們也開始嘗試做一點測試。但是這是上線的平臺，所以我問部長和署長有沒有自己上去測試過。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我知道有這個系統，但是沒有測試過。"],["周署長永暉：我是上去看過，沒有加入。"],["蔡委員其昌：我請辦公室助理幫我測試了一下，那我就很簡單地講就好。其實對於這種系統，我都覺得不成熟的東西不要拿出來。你知道觀光署所代表的是中華民國的觀光產業，代表的是交通部，也就是說，對於中華民國強調要觀光立國，我們曾經有千萬來客，觀光署是一種象徵、一個代表。觀光署推出這個AI小幫手的服務平臺後，我請助理輸入幾個東西，譬如說第一，我想知道中、永和好吃的麵包在哪裡，它回答的是「很抱歉，找不到相關資料，你可以進一步查詢各景點的資料庫喔！」再來，請它介紹永和著名的甜點，回答的是一樣的東西。「請介紹永和的觀光景點」，其實愈問愈大啦！但也是一樣的道理，平臺建議參考新北市政府的觀光旅遊網站。然後又問，想要從臺北騎……簡單講就是請問AI，從臺北騎自行車環島應該怎麼安排，結果觀光署平臺出現的3天行程是環臺北市的行程。我是說要怎麼從臺北市出發騎自行車環臺，而你們給我的是3天環臺北市的行程！","對於剛剛這些問題，其實不用講AI啦！講AI實在太羞辱AI了。自從臺灣有internet之後，我們只要在Google上輸入永和有什麼好吃的、中和有什麼好吃的、我們臺中清水有什麼好吃的，我想系統都可以跑出一大堆東西出來，還沒用到AI啦！搜尋網站就可以了，不必用到AI啦！也就是還不大需要用到智慧，只要有搜尋功能就可以做到。"],["周署長永暉：沒錯，我們不夠周延啦！應該加註「試用版」，因為我們也知道。關於這件事情，我們希望成立一個PMO，由工研院協助，現在也有資策會協助。針對這件事情，我們也覺得22個縣市政府做的力道還不夠，但是六都做得還不錯，我們希望把它串起來，我們會加上「試用版」。"],["蔡委員其昌：是啦！我的意思是上這個……部長、署長，你們也都知道大家現在可以花錢訂閱ChatGPT吧！"],["陳部長世凱：對，沒錯。"],["蔡委員其昌：你可以輸入，而它比Google更好用，因為它加入人工智慧，可以透過真正的AI幫你排程、告訴你可以去哪裡、中午去哪裡吃等等，它都幫你排好。雖然還是有一點小缺點，但是比起過去傳統上使用Google搜尋，它其實好很多。我的意思就是在臺灣，一般大家會認知什麼叫AI？就是買ChatGPT幫你排，但排好之後，大家還要在裡面討論或修正。中華民國政府主管觀光單位推出的AI平臺，做出來的卻連提供最基本的資料都沒有！這是我們稱之為代表中華民國觀光署的AI小幫手！","數發部長也在。部長，你們也在推動政府AI應用實驗站計畫，交通部觀光署推出這樣的所謂AI平臺，部長作為專家、作為數位發展的主管機關，你的看法是什麼？"],["黃部長彥男：我想，這個方向是對的啦！但資料的訓練可能還需要再加強，也有一些新的技術，像是RAG這種技術可以導入，增加這個網站的實用性，我們會再跟交通部合作。"],["蔡委員其昌：你們這個實驗站的第一件事恐怕是要趕快幫忙一下觀光署啦！"],["陳部長世凱：我們要拜託數發部。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，恐怕要第一個做、趕快做，因為我幫你們測試了一下，數發部的實驗站二月就開課了嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：對，AI Bots……"],["蔡委員其昌：但是到今天已經五月了，我們還看到這樣的情形。我覺得這樣的東西對於觀光署來說其實是很大的羞辱啦！中華民國觀光主管機關推出的AI連Google搜尋入口網站都不如，名字卻叫AI，我覺得這是很奇怪的。要服務大家應該怎麼樣？要重視Data的訓練。ChatGPT把網路上所有資料都拿來訓練，但是連它告訴我們的，我們都覺得不一定很優質，還要再透過人工加以優化，而現在你們訓練它的方式只是透過政府內部的資料。部長，你覺得這樣訓練出來堪用嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：我們也在準備這些資料做訓練，我們會協助交通部把這個系統訓練得更好。"],["蔡委員其昌：所以這樣是不合格的啦！對不對，部長？"],["黃部長彥男：我們會再跟交通部研究。"],["蔡委員其昌：我沒有惡意啦！只是要跟署長說，既然要做，就一定要有基本的樣子啦！你丟這個出來，只會在網路上遭到大家不斷訕笑，原來中華民國觀光署說什麼叫AI，其實就只是長這個樣子。臺灣人笑完也就算了，我們號稱科技大國，還有數發部喔！結果外國人不管是在臺灣或者為了來臺灣要搜尋，AI平臺卻長這個樣子，很好笑啦！這是說實在話。我沒有反對你們做這個，只是要問做任何網站，包括觀光署下面各個相關風景區的管理、服務平臺等一大堆網站，到底效果如何？對於做這些東西要進入新紀元，也就是AI的新紀元，你們到底準備好沒有？不要做了就丟下，表示有在做這個，我覺得這樣不好啦！署長，你覺得呢？"],["周署長永暉：先謝謝委員指教。但當初同仁提出的時候，重點在於OhBear，也就是「喔熊」能夠比過去的喔熊更進步一點，我們是嘗試給同仁一點衝擊。委員提示的讓我們覺得思慮還是不夠周到，也表示我們的PMO還是必須加強。就這個部分，如果數發部能夠協助我們，我們會更感激。"],["蔡委員其昌：我的建議是先弄好再推出啦！不急嘛！畢竟數發部都還在教政府各單位怎麼應用實驗……觀光署要走在前面我沒意見，但至少要做一個不要跟ChatGPT差太遠的啦！不要差它太遠，才能讓大家覺得ChatGPT要用錢買，觀光署服務則是不用錢的。就算只限旅遊問題，沒辦法問其他問題，我也覺得OK、很讚啊！你們跟它合作也都可以啊！問題只是怎麼在旅遊資訊上跟它有所區隔。市場已經走到這裡了，政府機關離人家太遠，交代不過去啦！這樣講懂我的意思吧？"],["周署長永暉：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：因為時間的關係，我只剩下最後一個問題。我想請問一下，現在訂房率不公開的思維是什麼？"],["周署長永暉：不是不公開，而是現在的訂房率被大家誤認為住房率。其實現在的分析發現，疫情之後，大家決定訂房的時間點愈來愈晚，而我們在15天之前就宣布，這種宣布方式其實會影響一些選擇行為。"],["蔡委員其昌：我的意思是，你們在科學認證裡面發現公布臺灣各地區、各縣市或觀光景點住房率百分比產生的負面衝擊是什麼？"],["周署長永暉：比正面衝擊還大。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，但那是什麼？就是說大家……"],["周署長永暉：譬如說有50%是當天才決定去住宿的。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，就我所理解，當時會公布這個數據，主要是為了讓地方政府方便，例如當訂房率很高時，他們的交通輸運要怎麼準備，或者我們自己的風景區要怎麼整備。但是後來發現這個參考價值越來越低，主要是受限於現在的訂房習慣，因為50%的人是前一天才決定，但我們這個數據是前15天就公布，所以參考價值相對較低。","我們現在是公布訂房率前三名給民眾參考，參考什麼？就是哪幾個縣市的訂房率特別高，如果想去那裡遊玩的人，你可能就要趕快訂房，或者交通方面要先準備。所以這個部分還是會公布，但是其他部分或許可以考慮要不要前一天再公布，或者直接公布住房率，這樣也可以。"],["蔡委員其昌：因為本席不了解其中的利弊，所以今天才會特別請教。譬如以本席的消費行為來看，如果本席發現這個連假前兩個禮拜，你們就告訴大家哪裡會大塞，訂房率已經達到九成，因為我們的計畫有替代性，一年有好幾個假期，那我們就會先挑不用和別人擠的時候。這樣一來，對本席這類的消費者而言，我們就不知道哪裡比較不擁擠，或是哪裡的遊客比較沒有那麼多。"],["陳部長世凱：不會的，現在前三名訂房比較多的地方，我們會公布，這部分還是有的，六都和非六都都有前三名。"],["蔡委員其昌：本席知道。本席的意思是說，以前全部都會公布，這樣我們才知道不會人擠人的地方在哪裡。因為以前你們是全部公布，現在只公布前三名，但我們不知道第四名是不是一樣擁擠。所以本席的意思是說，站在這類消費者的立場，我們不懂為什麼你們不讓大家知道這個假期最不擁擠的地點到底在哪裡，本席只是要詢問這個部分。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：所以本席的意思是說，你們是不是站在觀光業者和消費者之間的立場再評估一下，到底怎麼公布才是最好的。"],["陳部長世凱：好，可以。"],["蔡委員其昌：因為本席也不知道怎麼做才是最好的，只是認為站在這類消費者的立場，我們會覺得很不方便。以前很方便，你們的指標會告訴我們這個連假不要去哪裡，因為那裡房間難訂、車子又多，這樣我們就會選其他比較容易訂房的地方。如果沒有這項資訊，我們只能在訂房網站到處搜尋，看看哪裡的房間最好訂，這樣就表示在這個假期中，那裡的人比較少。所以本席的意思是再評估一下，看怎麼公布對消費者好，對業者也好，好不好？謝謝。"],["陳部長世凱：好，我們會再評估，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。請徐富癸委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":414,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-12","speakers":["許智傑","洪孟楷","李昆澤","傅崐萁","魯明哲","陳素月","林俊憲","廖先翔","黃健豪","何欣純","蔡其昌","徐富癸","邱若華","鍾佳濱","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃建賓","張啓楷","王美惠","郭昱晴","牛煦庭","陳雪生","林月琴","邱志偉","游顥","林國成","楊瓊瓔","羅廷瑋","林德福"],"page_start":265,"meetingDate":["2025-05-21"],"gazette_id":"1145302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145302_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查及處理114年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計48案；二、審查及處理114\n年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部主管預算凍結案計20案；三、處理114年度中央政府總預算\n關於行政院公共工程委員會預算凍結案計8案","agenda_id":"1145302_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}