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謝謝 我們現在請張祺凱委員發言"},{"start":31.613,"end":34.915,"text":"來 請郭部長委員長 這個517啊 非核家電以後 非核家園以後大家都在關心 我們的電成本增加了 電櫃跟變張的問題今天我要先給你看一個畫面 來 我們先看這個 這是"},{"start":61.883,"end":74.553,"text":"517啊 河山場二號機停了之後19號台中深夜12點的畫面中火深夜燒煤炭 煙霧瀰漫部長看了應該也是有些擔心的這個畫面真的是非常的驚悚現在開了第一槍出來抗議的是台中市的市長"},{"start":91.153,"end":110.798,"text":"盧秀燕 盧秀燕提出非常具體的事證她證明說 在飛河加鹽的前一天跟後一天就是前一天到後面一天 中火的發電量 全部都燒沒了喔中火是台灣最大的污染源 它燒沒"},{"start":112.062,"end":137.913,"text":"增加了50%他直接講了一共一本錢有10部這個基礎有一部在維修其他的9部基礎火力都全開這不是只有台中人受到影響喔在附近的中華南島 嘉義 昏林整個都受到影響了我看台電還一直認為沒有問題可是呢我們看下一張"},{"start":139.397,"end":162.603,"text":"台中市的環保局長跟盧修緣就拿出了非常具體的證據他講說中火啊他把時間點都給你看了中火10步這個燃煤基礎9步有上限其中有8步開的都是超過9成一直持續到20號的下午下面這個話最重要請大家一起來看看"},{"start":163.885,"end":180.515,"text":"你看 河山廠停機前16號中火 就是台灣最大的污染源他燒 用的這個煤炭一天3.23萬噸結果17號停了以後當天就跳上來了跳到4.03萬噸的煤炭18號稍微緩了一點點19號竟然攀升到4.64萬噸我給你算算看 這多恐怖的事情"},{"start":193.439,"end":219.135,"text":"一天喔就是非核家園以後光是一個中火一天多了1.4萬公噸的煤台中人跟整個中部地區的民眾用會發電健康受到多大的影響這是一個好 那我們再往南部看中部之外南部的議員跑出來講"},{"start":220.933,"end":249.463,"text":"說高雄啊新達三號跟四號的燃煤基礎你明明去年許可證明已經到齊了啊在飛河佳園貨的三天你又偷偷地擋開了高雄人何辜啊不只是中部的民眾用廢在發電南部也受到很大的影響我可以這樣講在民進黨推動飛河佳園之後"},{"start":251.107,"end":274.206,"text":"前臺灣空污越來越嚴重這是我們現在要正視的一個很嚴重的一個問題好 接下來我要談一個也是非常嚴重的問題除了污染增加了影響到我們人民的健康跟生命安全之外我們的電到底夠不夠呢賴清德總統你4月29號啊說我們的電夠啊"},{"start":280.455,"end":300.594,"text":"他還特別講他說全國民眾啊你可以上台電的電力即時資訊你去看一下我們的備載容量啊就是我們備用的一個電都在10%以上我們就上去看了結果發現5月4號就被打臉了"},{"start":303.345,"end":312.208,"text":"總統在4月29號接受財新的專訪說我們所有的電力備載容量電是過的都是10%以上不到五天不到五天就破功了那一天降到6.846.84多恐怖就從綠燈已經轉到黃燈了再下去6%以下就是橘燈"},{"start":329.758,"end":358.216,"text":"橘色的燈就是隨時有可能系統性的限電的我進一步給大家看一下總統的票票大家看一下這是台電的資料我幫他做一個統計這是每天的備產容量的熱量看下一張光是四月份總統票票的10%就有11次五月份到現在為止也有7次"},{"start":359.434,"end":387.833,"text":"在4月10號的時候 降到5.37一直沒有10%欸5.37代表什麼?已經進入了極端 極端叫做什麼?供電警戒 就是系統的限電限電的機率已經增加了再往下降 隨時就要找電了可能就要大停電了所以我剛剛一直一路講下來我們的污染增加了 空污增加了我們的電力"},{"start":390.075,"end":399.51,"text":"沒有像總統講的那麼充裕電力顯然是不夠的部長所以在空屋跟電力上面我們是要做一些想辦法解決問題"},{"start":404.821,"end":433.58,"text":"可能委員說明其實整個年度我們如果從這個2016到現在所有的空污的問題台電其實是一直在做降低的動作包括剛才提到的台中的電廠南美的用電量南美的用量我們整個南美的發電量也都在降那剛才委員有提到10%其實台電對外已經一再的強調那是在日尖峰 夜尖峰它必須要超過7%所以你剛才提到所以總統叫我們隨時上去看啊"},{"start":435.781,"end":459.974,"text":"是不是而且我講的不是只有晚上喔很多尖峰時間 特別是那個太陽一下山的時候老實講 現在幾乎是每天傍晚只要太陽一下山 那個太陽能一下子不見了我們這輩子容量就快速下降馬上喔 馬上6月份下季馬上就來了 對不對用電高峰就來了喔"},{"start":461.238,"end":485.061,"text":"所以政府有責任 你既然廢了核電第一個 空污不要再生效 因為我們廢發電 影響我們健康第二個不要讓我們大停電喔 電力一定是要過熱 總統講話已經被打臉了嘛對不對 信息非常清楚嘛空污的情況 台電一直都持續在降啦我先跟他講一下齁昨天啊 傍晚 你在說那個時間昨天傍晚啊"},{"start":487.61,"end":512.855,"text":"為6點就太陽大概差不多下山後沒多久6點50分一直到7點50分昨天的傍晚這個小時啊我們備載容量差不多只有7%所以再降下去就是已經從黃燈黃燈就是已經吃緊了啊綠燈就是總統講的綠燈就是供應充裕對不對到了10%以下就是供電已經是吃緊了"},{"start":514.755,"end":530.868,"text":"大部分時間在供應吃緊了到了下面就是集燈供電已經上有警戒了已經快到警戒的地方了昨天晚上有長達一個小時都只有7%是 都維持在夜間風7%以上我給大家看一下那個空屋的統計齁"},{"start":542.712,"end":563.957,"text":"這個是中心院的資料過去八年啊行政院跟政府一直講我們的空汙是這樣的可是呢過去八年我們的碳排增加了多少沒有少欸還反而增加了80萬噸這多嚴重的一個問題好"},{"start":571.516,"end":596.685,"text":"我們請部長跟台電注意三個事情第一個 廢核517之後 我們電價 電力的成本已經變貴了不要隨便漲價從內部趕快去作為改革第二個 空氣污染變嚴重了第三個 電力的穩定度已經下降了"},{"start":599.626,"end":610.107,"text":"請好好面對問題幫人民解決問題不要讓人民第一個用配發電而且電會是升高的謝謝好 謝謝張其凱委員的發言"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":329,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（9時36分）謝謝主席，請郭部長。"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員早。"],["張委員啓楷：部長早安。517非核家園以後，大家都在關心我們電的成本增加、變貴跟變髒的問題。今天我要先給你看一個畫面，我們先看這個畫面，這是517核三廠2號機停了之後，19號臺中深夜12點的畫面，中火深夜燒煤炭，煙霧瀰漫。部長看了應該也是有些擔心的，這個畫面真的是非常的驚悚。現在開了第一槍，出來抗議的是臺中市的市長盧秀燕，盧秀燕提出非常具體的事證，他證明在非核家園的前一天跟後一天，中火增加了50%燒煤的發電量，這全部都燒煤的，中火是臺灣最大的污染源，他直接講了，他說中火本來有10部機組，有1部在維修，其他的9部機組火力全開，這不是只有臺中人受到影響，在附近的彰化、南投、嘉義、雲林整個都受到影響，我看台電還一直認為沒有問題，可是臺中市環保局長跟盧秀燕就拿出了非常具體的證據，他把時間點都給你看了，中火10部的燃煤機組，9部有上線，其中有8部開的都是超過9成，一直持續到20號的下午。下面這句話最重要，請大家一起來看看，他說核三廠停機前，中火就是臺灣最大污染源，在16號它用的煤炭一天3.23萬噸，結果17號停了以後，當天就跳上來了，跳到4.03萬噸的煤炭，18號稍微緩和一點點，19號竟然攀升到4.64萬噸。部長，你算看看，這是多恐怖的事情，一天喔！進入非核家園以後，光是一個中火一天多了1.4萬公噸的煤，臺中人跟整個中部地區的民眾用肺發電，健康受到多大的影響，這是一點。我們再往南部看，中部之外，南部的議員跑出來講，高雄興達三號跟四號的燃煤機組，明明去年許可證明已經到期，在非核家園後的3天又偷偷打開了，高雄人何辜啊！不只是中部的民眾用肺在發電，南部也受到很大的影響，我們一定要講，在民進黨推動非核家園之後，全臺灣空污越來越嚴重，這是我們現在要正視的一個很嚴重的問題。","接下來，我要談一個也是非常嚴重的問題，除了污染增加了，影響到人民的健康跟生命安全之外，我們的電到底夠不夠呢？賴清德總統在4月29號說我們的電夠啊！他還特別講，全國民眾可以上台電的電力即時資訊去看一下我們的備轉容量，就是我們備用的電都在10%以上，我們就上去看了，結果發現5月4號就被打臉了。總統在4月29號接受財訊專訪稱我們所有的電力備轉容量是夠的，都是10%以上，不到5天就破功了，那一天降到6.84%，6.84%是多恐怖？從綠燈已經轉到黃燈，再下去6%以下就是橘燈，橘色的燈就是隨時有可能系統性的限電了。我進一步給大家看一下，總統的跳票，這是台電的資料，我幫大家做一個統計，這是每天備轉容量的量，光是4月份總統跳票的10%就有11次，5月份到現在為止也有7次，在4月10號的時候降到5.37%，不只沒有10%，5.37%代表什麼？已經進入了橘燈，橘燈叫作什麼？供電警戒！就是系統的限電，限電的機率已經增加了，再往下降，隨時就要找電了，可能就要大停電了！所以我剛剛一路講下來，我們的污染增加了、空污增加了，我們的電力沒有像總統講的那麼充裕，電力顯然是不夠的。部長，在空污跟電力上面，我們是不是要想辦法解決問題？"],["蔡副總經理志孟：跟委員說明，整個年度我們如果從2016年到現在所有的空污問題，台電其實一直在做降低的動作，包括剛才提到的台中電廠燃煤的用電量、燃煤的用量、整個燃煤的發電量也都在降，剛才委員提到的10%，其實台電對外已經一再強調，那是在日尖峰，夜尖峰必須要超過7%，所以你剛才提到……"],["張委員啓楷：所以總統叫我們隨時上去看啊，是不是？"],["蔡副總經理志孟：委員，隨時上去都可以看到……"],["張委員啓楷：而且我講的不是只有晚上，很多是尖峰時間，特別是太陽一下山的時候，老實講，現在幾乎是每天傍晚只要太陽一下山，太陽能一下子不見了，我們的備轉容量快速下降，馬上就6月份……"],["蔡副總經理志孟：委員，這本來就是再生能源的特性。"],["張委員啓楷：夏季馬上就來了，對不對？用電高峰就來了，所以政府有責任，既然你廢了核電，第一個，空污不要再增加，不要我們的肺發電，影響我們的健康；第二個，不要讓我們大停電，電力一定要夠，總統講話已經被打臉了，對不對？數據非常清楚嘛！"],["蔡副總經理志孟：跟委員報告，空污的情況，台電一直都持續在降啦！光是台中部分就在降了……"],["張委員啓楷：我先跟大家講一下，你剛才說的那個時間，昨天傍晚差不多太陽下山後沒多久，從6點50分一直到7點50分，昨天傍晚這1個小時，我們備轉容量差不多都只有7%，就是在下降，已經顯示黃燈，黃燈代表已經吃緊了，總統講的綠燈就是供應充裕，對不對？10%以下就已經是供電吃緊了，大部分時間在供應吃緊了，到了下面就是橘燈，供電已經開始警戒了、已經快到警戒的地方了，昨天晚上有長達一個小時都只有7%。"],["蔡副總經理志孟：是！都維持在夜尖峰7%以上。"],["張委員啓楷：我給大家看一下空污的統計，這是中經院的資料，過去8年行政院跟政府一直講我們的空污是降的，可是過去8年我們的碳排增加多少？沒有少耶！反而還增加80萬噸，這是多嚴重的問題！我們請部長跟台電注意三個事情：第一個，517廢核之後，我們的電價、電力成本已經變貴了，不要隨便漲價，從內部趕快去進行改革；第二個，空氣污染變嚴重了；第三個，電力的穩定度已經下降了，請好好面對問題，幫人民解決問題，不要讓人民用肺發電，而且電費是升高的，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張啓楷委員的發言。","接下來我們請林岱樺委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":230,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-14","speakers":["蔡易餘","陳亭妃","邱議瑩","張啓楷","林岱樺","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳超明","謝衣鳯","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","張嘉郡","羅廷瑋","徐富癸","徐欣瑩","黃國昌","呂玉玲"],"page_start":139,"meetingDate":["2025-05-22"],"gazette_id":"1145201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145201_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算有關經濟部及所屬主管預算凍結案等 39案；二、處理或\n審查 114 年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案等 21 案；三、繼續審\n查：(一)行政院函請審議「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員王美惠等18人\n擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「個人資料保護\n法部分條文修正草案」案、( 四) 本院委員李坤城等16 人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(五)本院委員郭昱晴等19人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委\n員陳亭妃等16人擬具「個人資料保護法第十二條、第二十七條及第四十八條條文修正草案」案、\n(七)本院委員蔡易餘等18人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1145201_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}