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AI輔助議政管理多元基訊強化授信護規資源連結第7整合資源推動社區處理完善被害人權利保障制度第8 AI提升行政執行績效跨域合作執行各項專頁本部會依照"},{"start":2190.17,"end":2190.951,"text":"請各位委員持續督促指教。謝謝"},{"start":2222.785,"end":2233.391,"text":"現在機關代表報告完畢相關書面報告內容請各位參閱並列入公報記錄現在開始進行詢答本會委員詢答時間為8分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員詢答時間為5分鐘並不再延長上午10時30分截止發言登記請登記第一位黃委員國昌發言"},{"start":2261.244,"end":2262.167,"text":"謝謝主席有請部長請鄭部長"},{"start":2272.572,"end":2291.907,"text":"委員早部長早有一件事情先在質詢以前拜託法務部以及新北檢的同仁注意就是最近一段時間在新北市三重分局、屠城分局兩位非常優秀年輕的派出所所長"},{"start":2292.848,"end":2316.151,"text":"因為獨獨駕都往生了留下小朋友那時候去看他們家人的時候大家心裡都非常難過獨駕這個問題一定要重視在你今天的報告裡面你們有說獨品要溯源追查那個部長對於獨駕那兩位的獨品上源現在追到什麼程度有沒有掌握"},{"start":2317.55,"end":2341.199,"text":"這部分檢察官在持續在追查中我相信檢察官絕對不會放棄任何的線索溯源、刨根把這些上游給抓出來溯源、刨根我們一定支持但我希望不是只有法務部書面的文字要認為具體的行動那這件事情我會持續追蹤下去抓出毒品的上游是最重要的事情謝謝委員"},{"start":2344,"end":2356.007,"text":"2017年全國司改會議的時候一個非常重要的議題是社會上對於所謂的偵查大公開或偵查亂公開"},{"start":2358.149,"end":2378.167,"text":"深惡痛絕施改國是會議的時候也做成了一些決議結果沒想到到2024年的現在竟然有記者可以大剌剌的說他經營減掉至少7年經營減掉7年到底是誰被經營了消息來源200%可以信賴結果我們的臺北地檢署"},{"start":2384.492,"end":2408.671,"text":"9月9號的時候說要立案9月16號的時候就說查無不法這件事情部長有沒有掌握有關你這個媒體記者就這樣的一個發言那我想這部分北檢剛剛委員提到臺北地檢署在今年9月9日已經分案來做一個調查所以9月16號就結案了是嗎"},{"start":2413.634,"end":2432.84,"text":"這個案件還沒有結案這個案件還在偵查中那很奇怪喔如果這個案件還沒有結案的話怎麼9月16號臺北地檢署就做結論了說沒有人洩密對這些媒體的一些的報導那我想根據那個那個偵查"},{"start":2433.496,"end":2440.843,"text":"9月16日的時候臺北地檢署的新聞稿是他們沒有人洩密那你卻說偵查還沒有結束所以情況到底是怎麼樣社會上面普遍的認知是北檢9月16日的結案"},{"start":2459.388,"end":2483.759,"text":"這個還沒有結案這個還在偵查中這跟委員報告這個作為辦法的第8條第8條的第一項的第7款對報導的如果說有內容跟事實不符影響的一個社會的一個看法跟影響這些被害人的一個權利等等這部分這個是有澄清的必要所以做事實的澄清"},{"start":2484.919,"end":2512.518,"text":"我想做事實澄清這些媒體做這麼久的報導請先停一下你自己再回去看一下他的新聞稿看到底是結束了還是只是澄清但我要問的請教部長的一件事情是說我們按照有關於法務部加強檢查機關、廉政機關遵守偵查不公開的事實方案這個是北檢自己查自己就可以的嗎?這個我想根據那個"},{"start":2513.767,"end":2534.295,"text":"這個北檢是有一個當然這個有分案來處理但是我想這個北檢對任何媒體的報導有關的新聞會有一個檢討小組那高檢署呢高檢署都要審得上級的機關有一個督導督導齁那這部分高檢是有在督導了解的嗎來啦我們直接看啊這不是督導嘛"},{"start":2535.492,"end":2557.296,"text":"我剛把這個實施方案2018年你們法務部自己公開的全部都把它點出來了來請部長看一下第11點上級的檢察署檢察長或檢察總長應主動派員追查這件事有在做嗎這個我沒有請高檢來調查不用你請高檢調查"},{"start":2560.438,"end":2560.718,"text":"這個高檢有調查中"},{"start":2587.442,"end":2603.164,"text":"這個高檢有主動派人追查什麼時候立案的這個是在媒體的有關這個案件當日就那時候就即時就有做一個行政調查也是同樣9月9日調查完了嗎"},{"start":2604.488,"end":2608.552,"text":"這個9月跟委員做一個澄清齁這個不是在9月9號發新聞稿這是在9月16號發新聞稿我知道啦"},{"start":2625.069,"end":2645.709,"text":"等一下等一下等一下等一下等一下等一下部長請你針對問題回答你看一下臺北地檢署的新聞稿我兩篇都貼出來了第一個是9月9號剛我說過了左邊是9月9號右邊是9月16號剛剛你跟大家澄清了嘛9月16號都還沒有結案到目前為止還在調查是嗎"},{"start":2646.817,"end":2648.858,"text":"我們看一下齁基層檢察官最近反映的心聲是什麼基層檢察官說請法務部開課"},{"start":2677.116,"end":2697.043,"text":"要如何學會被媒體經營的課程可以請被經營多年的學長們擔任講座這個檢察官的心聲部長有沒有聽到這個我不清楚我現在就直接跟你報告這個是基層檢察官在檢察官論壇上面貼的法務部有要考慮開這個課嗎這個我們是對發言人我們才會做發言人的一個教育訓練"},{"start":2705.336,"end":2729.367,"text":"他在諷刺你們啊看不出來喔要如何學會被媒體經營這麼多年啊再往下看請部長多聽聽基層檢察官的心聲你到今天才知道我覺得我有點震驚啊孰難想像啊沒有關係啊不管你是不是真的今天才知道基層檢察官說啊對於解媒一體的亂象"},{"start":2731.073,"end":2755.289,"text":"這不是記者寫的這是檢察官寫的對檢每一體的亂象沒有積極作為將檢方的名氣踩在地上終將成為歷史罪人啊部長覺得這個檢察官沉痛的呼籲有沒有道理我們都會要求我們所屬的來落實偵查不公開那我相信我們會這樣做我們的同仁會這樣處理"},{"start":2756.428,"end":2770.191,"text":"好來看一下之前啊我在司法法制委員會問過兩次了問過兩次了我帶秘密證人去北檢作證結果消息洩漏給進州刊跑獨家當陳歐珀洗地"},{"start":2771.621,"end":2788.781,"text":"我之前沒有公職的時候我用我自己的時間跟精力去追查弊案結果向北檢檢舉結果被竟然被寫出來說檢舉的人是我依照偵查不公開作業辦法這個是可以公開的資訊嗎"},{"start":2790.73,"end":2815.308,"text":"這個已經做行政調查完畢了那這個也是陳報高檢署北檢陳報高檢署那也在陳報最高檢已經簽結了那我想這個這份的調查是這個是的確是有某週刊有做這樣的一個報導但是這個是絕對不是北檢的洩漏出去的所以不是北檢洩漏出去的沒有然後"},{"start":2817.782,"end":2830.413,"text":"後面這個案子是我檢舉的也不是北檢洩漏的這兩個案子你全部都已經偵查完畢了都簽結了這個在最高檢已經函付最高檢什麼時候結果可以給我這個已經簽結了對啊我說什麼時候結果可以通知我被害人不是我嗎那個我再請最高檢來我來看一下齁"},{"start":2844.486,"end":2861.643,"text":"檢查總長痛心疾首這是我上次質詢的時候形態詔所講的痛心疾首完了然後呢痛心疾首完了然後呢然後現在北檢簽結查無不法跟絕大多數的案子啊一模一樣來我們看一下"},{"start":2862.941,"end":2890.178,"text":"司法國是會議改革的方案對違反偵查不公開的規定要從制度面防堵泄密的漏洞也會與法務部研議如何嚴加追究泄密人員的責任這個是司法國是會議的結論我們再往下看法務部改革的方案加強所屬檢查調查及連任機關遵守偵查不公開原則實施方案草案"},{"start":2892.23,"end":2906.981,"text":"要嚴肅的追究責任過去這7年過去這7年針對有關於涉及偵查不公開到目前為止有哪一個案子是成案有哪些人的責任被追究過去這7年因為只有兩種可能性"},{"start":2916.354,"end":2929.365,"text":"一個是 連檢察官都被誤導啦說有檢媒議題啊 踐踏檢察官的名氣啊那個檢察官 在檢察官論壇講這種話是胡說八道根本沒有這樣的事那如果 在另外一方面從斯坦國事會議 做成了這樣的結論到現在7年嘛"},{"start":2943.991,"end":2965.809,"text":"要研議方案要嚴肅追究責任到目前為止7年辦了什麼案子這個跟委員報告齁這個有處分了15人處分了哪15人會後名單可以給我嗎你處分的層級是檢察官還是書記官還是調查員是偵查輔助機關的人員所以不是檢察官嘛也不是調查員嘛"},{"start":2974.798,"end":2995.595,"text":"來我們再往下看你們現在啊偵查不公開的檢討報告葛市長這樣子啊部長請您看一下對於這樣子報告的內容跟成效滿不滿意這個是今年才開始來做一個統計的那我們會去年就有了啦在法務部的網站上面通通都有啦"},{"start":2996.81,"end":3010.659,"text":"臺北地檢署的網站通通都有啦之前的表格更簡單啦你們今年把它改成這個樣子我就問部長嘛對這樣子報告的格式跟內容還有成效滿不滿意我們現在還在14週"},{"start":3016.886,"end":3026.652,"text":"對阿所以我問你阿對這個報告的格式跟內容還有成效你滿不滿意上次的格式我認為更能反映我們現在的一個需求那我們會持續的一個檢討"},{"start":3028.015,"end":3045.622,"text":"我最後齁主席站起來了我只跟院長拜託一件事啊思改國社會議的結論過了7年了以後你實施的結果長成這個樣子啊長成這個樣子啊是不是有符合當初思改國社會議啊決議的內容對於這樣子的成效"},{"start":3049.163,"end":3074.66,"text":"對於這樣子的成效到底大家滿不滿意能不能夠接受今天不是只有少數一兩個人在講連基層檢察官都看不下去啊自己出來砲轟啊上面所屬的長官沒有實際上面的具體作為啊我相信我們的同仁會遵守偵查不公開的一個規定我們也會嚴格的要求你講這個都是空話嘛"},{"start":3075.489,"end":3083.713,"text":"我實際上面具體的案子你有哪一件辦出來我只有一個簡單的問題阿我實際上面具體檢舉的案子有哪一個辦出來全部都是簽結阿全部都是查無不法阿現在受處費的人數是零阿"},{"start":3099.714,"end":3123.126,"text":"請部長把黃委員所要求的內容關於他部分的要做一個具體的回覆。謝謝黃委員、謝謝曾部長。那麼接下來在下次質詢之前,由於議事錄先前已經宣讀完畢,尚未確定。現在先確定議事錄,請問各位上次會議議事錄有錯誤或遺漏?如果沒有的話,我們議事錄就確定。那接下來我們繼續邀請陳委員進於質詢。"},{"start":3136.755,"end":3143.409,"text":"委員早好謝謝主席部長還有我們各位所長大家早那好"},{"start":3145.114,"end":3164.428,"text":"部長從今天的報告看來大部分還是延續性的政策在持續進進那所以我想就法務部既有的這個業務推動的情形結合幾個議題來跟部長做討論首先是有關我們司法醫療體系的健全我們在上會期也曾經有討論過當時因為這個監護處分人脫逃的事件讓我們法務部對於相關缺失進行"},{"start":3173.774,"end":3200.552,"text":"過這個檢討也為了健全社會的安全網這個保安處分的處所和這個轉嫌機構也必須要競速完善那在近期更因為這個憲判對於金帳的判決讓司法精神醫療再次受到矚目那司法精神病房是由我們法務部及衛福部編列預算共同在各地進行建置從這個合定的完工期程來看"},{"start":3201.552,"end":3223.016,"text":"這個月底應該要有3個地方的這個病房建置完成所以我想請教部長目前這個東部還有北部的病房是否也能如期來完成並開始收治跟委員報告這個北部跟東部都已經完成建置了都已經在收治了收治這些"},{"start":3223.911,"end":3226.734,"text":"安全維護設施的設置和介護人員的規劃培訓應該是由我們法務部來主責"},{"start":3239.301,"end":3262.472,"text":"由於這個司法精神病房還有這個醫療將醫院的部分將陸續完工收治的病床數也會相應的增加那相關的這個管理措施還有人力規劃都需要提前來準備來完備收治的作業那我想再請教部長就是目前在人力規劃和培訓上能否充分的因應我們收治的需求"},{"start":3263.232,"end":3287.062,"text":"好謝謝委員那目前那個司法精神病房的安全維護的人員我們都有辦理那個一個勤務的一個訓練那另外在北中南東這個司法精神的一個病房這部分我們這部分的保全人員就是人力目前是充足的"},{"start":3288.086,"end":3306.606,"text":"人力沒問題人力這部分是沒問題好那對於從這個前年底就開始收治的南部醫院是似乎因為缺乏編制介護人員導致他必須以外聘保全的方式來因應但可能因為工作危險性較高"},{"start":3307.647,"end":3311.469,"text":"這部分的確這個保全的在對介護這些收容人的確是要比較多的一個"},{"start":3337.426,"end":3363.54,"text":"專注力跟專注的時間的確是高於一般的保全的工作那這造成流動力比較高那這部分我們再分析整個原因我們再做一個檢討那作為對加強對這些的訓練以及對這些的一個專業的一個培訓我想這邊可以讓這些的流動力能夠降低能夠充分的維護這些司法精神病患的這個介乎的一個問題"},{"start":3364.46,"end":3386.406,"text":"好 那這個安全維護的部分務必要準備齊全之外對於這個設置專責的司法精神病房我們也期待他能夠發揮更大的這個效果能夠給予我們監護處分人適當的這個安置和治療那也希望完全杜絕這個脫逃的情形再次發生"},{"start":3386.786,"end":3387.206,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":3412.997,"end":3438.803,"text":"檢察機關跟司法警察機關的聯繫是非常的密切那尤其對這些有簽約的醫院的這些受監護處分人的這些的安全維護我們都會跟警方做密切的一個聯繫合作那有關委員關心的就是定期拍照這個問題我們在保安處分執行法這部分我們內陸修法的所以在這邊再做一個研議"},{"start":3439.563,"end":3458.935,"text":"所以目前還沒有就對了目前還沒有那我們會嚴厲在這邊在在保安處分執行法這邊是不是來做一個一個修法我們再在嚴厲中這部分我們再嚴議看看那司法精神醫院和這個病房的建置我想不管是在法界還是醫界或大眾都期待很久了"},{"start":3459.395,"end":3486.087,"text":"希望我們法務部能夠和衛福部競速將相關的設施和措施都準備到位並持續的精進這部分再請部長跟同仁繼續努力再來我想跟部長您探討的是法務部在柔性司法中也有提及到有關社會勞動的制度社會勞動作為6個月以下輕罪的替代方案"},{"start":3487.389,"end":3504.235,"text":"若能完善制度並加以推動相信對於緩解監獄超收達成教化功能和社會公益能創造三贏的局面我想請教部長對於社會勞動制度目前實施的成效如何評估"},{"start":3509.353,"end":3524.39,"text":"社會勞動服務的確是可以減少短期自由行的流弊在就業這邊可以兼顧但實質上的消費的確是減少短期自由行的流弊避免標籤化"},{"start":3526.112,"end":3543.534,"text":"那第二就是矯正資源的分配可以更合理化那再來就可以避免增加這個矯正的一個預算經費減少國家的財政負擔另外最重要還可以紓解監獄超收擁擠安全的我想這是一個直接可以看到的一個效益"},{"start":3545.776,"end":3574.357,"text":"好但是從這幾年我們這個社勞案件逐漸上升的趨勢來看可能會遭遇到一些問題看到我們法務部所提供的資料在今年1到8月就已經執行完成10353件那審計部也曾提到這個審核意見有部分這個地檢署管理這個社勞案件的官戶佐理員可能因為案件量的"},{"start":3575.077,"end":3589.699,"text":"增加難以負荷導致離職率偏高而且目前這個空缺未能補期所以直接導致人員這個調度上的困難那這部分法務部應該要如何來因應"},{"start":3590.78,"end":3614.147,"text":"這部分我想仍少示範我們也知道這個佐立委員的待遇也是比較偏低那跟其他的這些比較前我們認為還有調整的空間所以我們在114年預計要調新幅度要調整7%讓這些我們關乎佐立委員能夠久任那我想這是我們努力在做這一部分"},{"start":3618.073,"end":3635.138,"text":"社勞合作執行機關方面本席曾經接到機關首長反映社勞人員可能因為請假或缺席未到導致執行人力陰道跟時道的情況有落差在人力派遣的管理上"},{"start":3635.418,"end":3635.438,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":3655.802,"end":3682.955,"text":"就是我們在簽到退這一部分齁我們應用科技的一個設備目前我們是可以用不定時的用手機或者通訊軟體來來查證這個社勞人他的簽到退的情形那如果說我們可以可以更精進的話我們再評估齁是不是個引進那個AI的輔助電子簽到的一個方式齁那目前大概是因為整個一個執行的機構那邊未必一定有"},{"start":3683.575,"end":3683.995,"text":"另外我再請教部長有關這個"},{"start":3708.582,"end":3736.977,"text":"上司煙彈對於社會所造成的這個危害那近期我們看到這個上司煙彈等新興的毒品在社會中不斷的蔓延不但這個吸食的人口越來越多也發現許多起這種毒價這個吸毒之後駕駛汽車了所造成的這種死傷這個悲劇那我們也看到8月份法務部和行政院已經將這個上司煙彈列為這個三級毒品但這個毒品"},{"start":3737.637,"end":3737.857,"text":"我想...呃..."},{"start":3753.826,"end":3773.766,"text":"這部分我們會跨部會來做一個合作那有關你這個藥防肚這些上次煙彈進入校園我想我們會在在那個安居氣毒專案跟校園青春的專案我們把它列入查緝的重點尤其這一藥頭我們會會強力的一個守盪防止這進入校園另外我們在"},{"start":3774.326,"end":3789.961,"text":"校園委員會全力來做一個宣導認識這些毒品的危害讓這些學生避免因為因為有一些像用電子煙的或其他的呈現而不小心去使用到這些的一個毒品那個謝謝委員的關心我們這邊會來會來努力來做"},{"start":3791.823,"end":3810.064,"text":"那對於這個新興毒品和這個毒價所造成的死傷讓社會大眾都感到非常的痛心那先前我們也看到警政署長曾表示過建議中央提高此類這個新興毒品的這個刑度那對此我想請教部長未來有沒有可能對於這個部分來做相關的修法規劃"},{"start":3811.225,"end":3824.097,"text":"我想這個整個社會的一個反應跟包括整個一個我們團隊的一個反應意見是不是可以提高或做一個管制我們會我們會有讀品的一個讀審會來做一個進行的一個審議"},{"start":3827.7,"end":3834.504,"text":"打擊毒品我相信是我們法務部和相關部會一直以來都是積極努力的一個目標然後我也希望說這個法務部跟相關部會可以持續精進防治毒品濫用的情形也可以減少對社會"},{"start":3853.84,"end":3881.902,"text":"所造成的相關傷害以上請我們法務部跟各部會所長積極努力好 謝謝好 謝謝陳委員 謝謝鄭部長接下來有請吳委員私謠質詢部長你可以先休息一下好 謝謝主席那部長喝口水還是辛苦大家"},{"start":3883.41,"end":3883.71,"text":"上午9點35分"},{"start":3899.83,"end":3918.508,"text":"在過25分鐘﹐我們即將要跟朝野各黨團﹐包括韓國瑜院長﹐召集了協商﹐終於希望能夠針對總預算案﹐能不能夠成功地突破僵局﹐能夠赴為審查。稍後的協商﹐我想社會都在看﹐全民都在等。"},{"start":3919.349,"end":3924.395,"text":"那我也整理了一下在總預算其實沒有辦法審查預算法54條的規範之下呢新興的計畫新增的預算沒有辦法執行所以total來到2050億"},{"start":3934.947,"end":3953.568,"text":"所以這2050億方方面面攸關照顧人民福祉臺灣的建設要進步能不能夠來化解我們稍後會有答案但是呢下一頁就您所執掌的法務部主管的相關預算受影響的有哪些"},{"start":3954.971,"end":3969.615,"text":"這部分總共有跟委員報告那法務部影響的這部分有新興計畫的有總共有11項包括法醫研究所的強化法醫鑑識能量的科技計畫矯正屬的有矯正機關科技安全網建置計畫以及矯正機關"},{"start":3973.136,"end":3974.557,"text":"總共有11項,我整理出來大概數額會是11.26億"},{"start":3997.947,"end":4023.726,"text":"他會focus在我們上會期剛剛完成的打詐司法裡頭打詐的新興的工具使用的升級所以呢打詐升級的預算被擋了那也包括你剛剛講的強化法醫鑑識的量能這些讓我們強化基層工作人員讓他辦案更專業也能夠減輕我們一直在司法法制委員會大家都說要為司法人員減壓"},{"start":4025.647,"end":4044.008,"text":"這些科學化的信心工具要導入被擋了那當然我們一直不足的矯正經費也受了影響所以我這裡整理的11.26億元這段時間你們有沒有強化跟朝野的委員做說明呼籲倡議"},{"start":4046.533,"end":4075.279,"text":"每一分每一秒每一毛都是必要之用的計畫項目不是嗎是我們這部分我們有請我們及本部及所屬就有這新新的這個計畫我們就是要拜託委員來多一個支持因為這的確很重要像調查局有些科技辦案的這些要整個一個新的一個犯罪手法的一個查緝的這些的追緝的這些尤其是網路犯罪"},{"start":4075.959,"end":4078.344,"text":"委員們不要在質詢的時候要求看到打炸的成果然後擋打炸的預算"},{"start":4088.345,"end":4105.501,"text":"委員們不要在法制委員會每次都為司法人員的權益大聲疾呼要照顧司法人員減壓然後預算砍了也不要委員們每次在這裡說我們對於改善我們的監獄預鎖這個看守所所有的"},{"start":4107.308,"end":4119.727,"text":"這些矯正相關的作業要升級要更人道要跟上國際的人權思維結果預算都沒丁沒當我再次期待稍後的"},{"start":4120.99,"end":4130.821,"text":"朝野協商我們可以讓該做的事情每一分每一毫都要用在刀口上唯有透過實質的審查才能夠對預算的編列跟執行的計畫進行嚴格的把關跟審視而不是擋著不審擋著擺爛擋著來癱瘓國家"},{"start":4142.847,"end":4164.839,"text":"那我接下來下一頁我接下來講的預政改革跟預算也大有相關其實我們對於這個收容人不管是在監獄或是看守所整個環境的改善我知道你們逐步在做有5所包括監獄跟看守所有的是擴建有的是興建但是總體來說下一頁"},{"start":4168.591,"end":4189.583,"text":"兩公約我們簽署的相關對於受刑人的人道處理尊重其天賦人格尊嚴之處喻等等兩公約這個是過去馬英九政府簽署我們認為要跟上國際所以回歸兩公約的規範下一頁"},{"start":4192.864,"end":4207.802,"text":"我就問您 矯正單位的收容情況我們從2016 17開始推動一人一床開始編列預算來提升提高收容我這裡的數據我就直接"},{"start":4210.064,"end":4215.186,"text":"來詢問合定收容的人數是60552實際收容是58889位看似沒有超收是真的嗎部長數字會說話"},{"start":4227.993,"end":4251.632,"text":"這是總數嗎總數是沒有超收啦齁但是個別的監所這個是收容是不一樣所以我們要勇敢面對問題解決問題我想這是一個老問題我要藉由今天的質詢還有後續我們審查總預算的時候好好來把關嚴格檢視下一頁我就以地區來分我的辦公室這段時間花了非常多的時間就全台灣的矯正機關每一所每一處"},{"start":4253.713,"end":4269.991,"text":"去瞭解去調查大台北桃竹苗地區15個收容矯正機關當中有10所是超收的平均超收都是兩成多三成多第一名就是臺北看守所他超收率是39.93%就是四成區別下一個"},{"start":4275.629,"end":4284.493,"text":"中張頭地區8所當中6所超收,它的平均超收最高的是南投看守所,超收是28.9"},{"start":4287.051,"end":4310.009,"text":"其餘大概加起來也都是10多%的超收率喔下一頁雲嘉南9所中有3所超收超收最高的是臺南看守所達到17.44%下一頁高屏地區7所矯正機關當中5所超收超收率最高的是高雄第二監獄17.5%下一頁"},{"start":4313.712,"end":4339.603,"text":"移花東10所矯正機關3所超收李島當然收容人數比較少是唯一一個沒有超收的區域我以區域別來做這樣子的分析這些資訊部長都有掌握嘛對不對我大概的分析是正確的吧好下一頁如果以所有的項目別我就以超收間數來計算"},{"start":4341.804,"end":4363.696,"text":"整體臺灣的矯正機關53%超收超收前五名我列在最右邊的表格第一名是臺北看守所第二名桃園監獄第三南投看守所第四新竹看守所第五苗栗看守所而總體來說看守所的超收比監獄更嚴重"},{"start":4366.678,"end":4389.865,"text":"而女性的女子監獄或是女子看守所她的人權待遇是更差的因為她都是百分之百超收的請把這些數據我希望今天的質詢之後你們可以提供完整的進一步資訊跟檢視的計畫跟給本席我們在討論預算的時候我們好好來找出方法來解決它下一頁"},{"start":4390.905,"end":4412.403,"text":"那我以你們開始推動的一人一床推動到現在還是有五成沒有達標當中就是看守所的進度最糟部長這些問題下一頁怎麼解決需要預算嘛需要預算也需要有計畫"},{"start":4413.944,"end":4427.199,"text":"這個是因為監所的一個一個聽設的一個部署我們現在是在積極的辦理來擴增建築那這邊我們也是預算這部分能夠能夠能夠能夠省順利"},{"start":4428.379,"end":4443.297,"text":"那這部分跟委員報告我們那個也是在努力那其實是我們現在的一個一人一船已經達到八成了有到八成嗎八成三了最新的數據那給我update最新的數據好嗎好那我們再提供最新的數據"},{"start":4443.677,"end":4471.01,"text":"好我時間要到了我先跟您卸題一下我認為制度的修正是需要的剛剛講的是執行它有難度預算是不是足夠空間是不是擴建興建都還需要再大力的來規劃但是就規定來講法務部頒布的各監獄收容受刑人的這個基準表2001年規定的它對於每一個收容人的居住空間法定"},{"start":4471.81,"end":4486.555,"text":"是0.7平你知道這個數字嗎是如果比歐洲理事會他們是多人房單人房都有不同的配置都是我們的好幾倍"},{"start":4487.395,"end":4487.695,"text":"最後一頁"},{"start":4514.31,"end":4520.058,"text":"前夜這邊是我也整理出來的您剛講我們這幾年投入了"},{"start":4521.552,"end":4545.448,"text":"經費去進行監獄的興建或擴建目前完工啟用的有臺北監獄宜蘭監獄但是這兩個完工擴建的他還是超收換言之你已經花了錢沒有改到位他還是面臨超收這是當初規劃的問題呢還是在收容的部分沒有辦法去做一個管理"},{"start":4548.337,"end":4571.916,"text":"雲林第二監獄已經完工啟用了他一樣也是非常滿的他增加了1360個收容名額那我們看還有兩個新興計畫是八德外醫監跟彰化看守所當中五處要改善矯正機關的人道的這個空間改善只有一所是看守所就是彰化看守所"},{"start":4572.887,"end":4587.234,"text":"那你看巴德跟彰化目前還在執行中總的來看這五個裡面即便完工了他還是超收然後北部我剛剛給你看各區的分佈圖北區的"},{"start":4590.14,"end":4605.228,"text":"超收狀況是最嚴重可是你整個擴建政策沒有因地制宜換言之需要去解決的那些最急的最不人道的那些區域你反而沒有啟動擴建的計畫我時間到了後續再討論預算的時候我希望針對這些矯正機關擴建新建的計畫你們能夠在審議預算的時候清楚的來跟國會來報告這樣好嗎"},{"start":4616.554,"end":4623.279,"text":"總預算再過15分鐘的協商希望能夠順利 全民都在看 一起加油 謝謝部長謝謝委員 謝謝吳委員 謝謝鄭部長接下來有請沈委員發會質詢"},{"start":4658.625,"end":4679.575,"text":"主席我們是不是請部長有請鄭部長委員早部長早我想今天這個本席大概很仔細的看了我們這個法務部的書面的業務報告就大概兩個問題來跟這個部長來請教"},{"start":4684.062,"end":4703.913,"text":"第一個就是有關我們在106年9月的司改國事會議裡面那時候有決議那時候的司改國事會議的一個決議就是應該設立國家級的司法科學委員會當然有很多理由最主要是這個"},{"start":4705.454,"end":4715.808,"text":"強化司法發現真實之能力減少冤議這是當時我們四改國事會議的正式結論從106年到現在今年民國113年"},{"start":4724.26,"end":4732.385,"text":"這個過程裡面我們這個當時司改會所所大家所做成的決議認為應該設立國家級的司法科學委員會這樣子的一個結論經過這麼多年了齁我們現在在你們的這個業務報告裡面看到齁這個國家級的司法科學"},{"start":4746.428,"end":4764.006,"text":"委員會現在經過多年的研討跟這個研究你們的研議之後現在變成要設立在以現在的這個法醫研究所的改制做這個國家司法科學研究院"},{"start":4765.726,"end":4791.226,"text":"對不對部長現在是不是這個方向是朝這個方向來努力目前在研究所在規劃進行中我知道現在我有整理這個整個變化的過程如何一個司改國事會議的結論從一個國家級的國家級的司法科學委員會到現在變成法務部這個所屬法務部所屬的一個"},{"start":4793.209,"end":4811.687,"text":"國家司法科學研究院的一個司法科學研究院這樣子的變化過程在106年施改國事會議提出這個結論之後我看我們法務部在107年108年那時候就開始研議舉辦了多次的這個這個可行性跟這個籌備會議那時候一開始還叫籌備會議是朝這個國家級的的這個司法科學委員會的這個這個方向來籌備"},{"start":4819.485,"end":4836.57,"text":"但是這樣子從107年之後經過4年到110年之後我們開始由法醫研究所來開始研議法醫研究所的改制這把整個國家級把它降到我們法務部所屬的這個法醫研究所的改制"},{"start":4837.403,"end":4857.892,"text":"那到這個110這個是110年喔又經過一年之後法院研究所把他們改制的建議報告給部長到112年我們法務部就把他報到行政院了就變成把原本司改國事會議裡面認為應該是一個國家級的獨立機關最後的研議的結果是法務部"},{"start":4858.993,"end":4879.863,"text":"下屬由法域研究院來改制的一個這個能不能請部長說明一下這樣子的政策轉折一直到我知道現在你們在112年報行政院把這個組織草案把這個組織法草案報行政院之後又回來修改修改之後在在今年的"},{"start":4881.038,"end":4907.192,"text":"的8月才沒多久之前8月你們又已經修改後的草案送行政院了對不對是這部分這個比較詳細的一個轉折我是不是可以請那個法醫研究所侯所長來跟委員來做一個這個法醫研究所的他們他們也很用心的來說就法醫研究所如何改制讓法醫研究所從現在的功能裡面他能夠去擴大到這個相關領域但是"},{"start":4907.972,"end":4929.022,"text":"我為什麼認為不是由法醫研究所來回答因為這個是政策選擇這個不是他們的法醫研究所他們認為他們自己怎麼樣改制之後對這個比較有用而是說我們的這個司改國事委員會很清楚講的是一個獨立的國家司法鑑定機關到現在變成法務部下屬的那這個"},{"start":4930.294,"end":4955.277,"text":"我想這個還是最後還是一個政策的選擇而不是法醫研究所他們的研究啦他們的研究整本我都看完了啦研究的相當的詳細但是畢竟他就是他法醫研究所他不可能說研究的出來結果讓自己變成一個國家級的獨立單位這個是不可能的他是他們的研議方向就是在法務部體制之下如何讓法醫研究所去擴充他的職能讓他能夠"},{"start":4957.721,"end":4983.409,"text":"稍微的程度去涵蓋司法國是會議所講的那些統籌國家的這個這個司法科技只是這個方向而已所以還是政策還是我們部長這邊要來清楚談這個我們現在國家的這個司法科學那時候為什麼司改國是會會做這樣的結論我們現在這是各個機關大家各個不同的這個司法科學的單位"},{"start":4985.1,"end":5010.89,"text":"分散在各個機關包括我們這個法務部下面的法醫研究所我們調查局裡面的監視科學處警政署自己刑事警察局裡面有有這個刑事警察局的監視中心國防部有國防部的監視中心海洋委員會有海洋委員會的監視中心這個都各個單位所做出來的監視它並沒有一個國家級的一個認證並沒有一個國家級的認證這是那時候為什麼"},{"start":5014.111,"end":5029.945,"text":"為什麼司改國是會議認為說我們現在需要這樣子一個國家級同籌各個這個司法科學單位的一個機構啊但是你們最後的結果你們現在所做出來的結果就是還是這些單位都仍然存在你們自己還是一個這些單位其中的一個單位"},{"start":5031.856,"end":5053.502,"text":"這個跟原本的這個司改會的結論恐怕是天差地遠我再用美國的例子美國他們設置了一個司法科學領域委員會叫OSAC他們把它分成整個司法科學分成七大領域我們這七大領域裡面我看我們這個七大領域現在分散在各個單位"},{"start":5054.562,"end":5082.949,"text":"我們有關生物的部分﹚法醫研究所﹚刑事警察局﹚調查局還有六都的這些刑事監視中心我們有關物理及形態分析分散在刑事警察局﹚六都的刑事監視中心﹚海巡署﹚還有國防部我們的現場勘查在刑事警察局﹚六都刑事監視中心﹚國防部回物跡證在調查局﹚在刑事警察局﹚法醫學在法醫研究所"},{"start":5084.313,"end":5102.923,"text":"數位跟媒體在調查局、刑事警察局、國防部這七大領域我們幾乎每一個領域都分散在各個不同的機構這樣子部長這樣子我們怎麼樣用這個法醫研究所的改制來取代這個獨立性的"},{"start":5105.439,"end":5131.772,"text":"獨立性的這個司法委員會這個部長能不能說明這邊我也希望有建立一個國家級的就是在外界是在行政院的這個一個外界然後把剛剛委員提到的散落在各個機關的這些的但是現在你們所做出來的不是啊經過這麼多年106年到現在113年跟委員報告就是本來就是有嚴厲就是設在行政院但是因為行政院他的委員會他那個已經"},{"start":5133.356,"end":5133.757,"text":"市長要補充嗎?"},{"start":5143.22,"end":5170.89,"text":"我看你一直愈來愈遇事跟委員報告其實這個是一個政策上的選擇在行政院當時在討論的時候到底是要一階段來達成這個目標還是分階段二階段來達成目標所以在政策上的選擇上行政院決定用二階段來達成這個目標第一階段就是我們現在法務部所提出來的版本先設在法務部的一個委員會接下來下一個階段之後才成為一個行政院級的這一個但你們設在法務部之下"},{"start":5172.219,"end":5178.841,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第2會期司法及法制委員會第2會期"},{"start":5200.652,"end":5221.405,"text":"學青政務組變成生物認證中心,就把組改成中心,增加一個綜合規劃中心,跟新設一個司法科學研究教育中心,大概就這樣子,沒有改變啊?沒有,這個委員會的組成,即使未來是法務部的三級機關,它還是由一個委員會來,審議委員會獨立存在"},{"start":5223.286,"end":5231.89,"text":"這個我現在就可以討論這個審議委員會了齁你們把這個審議委員會你所謂獨立存在並不是獨立存在於這個國家架構沒有錯但是它是獨立運作它是在這個國家科學委員會"},{"start":5238.693,"end":5244.556,"text":"國家科學院的院長下面他的成績還在這個國家科學院院長下面把原本應該獨立於國家獨立的機關拉到法務部下面的研究這個研究院的下面"},{"start":5255.576,"end":5279.929,"text":"這個要如何這個要他他他所扮演職能他要怎麼樣具有公信力去做這個有關實驗室啊人員資格的認證有關這個司法科學教育司法科學政策全部都由他負責啊來跟我們報告像我們現在獨評審議委員會他也在法務部底下但是他的所屬的成員都是外界獨立的客觀公正人士來擔任獨立的審議委員會來審議他的獨立性客觀性也不容挑戰"},{"start":5280.549,"end":5295.261,"text":"所以沒有做未來制度設計上你不能這樣講啦你不能說啊因為我們找的人都很公正所以他就是會是獨立機關這種東西一個國家體制的設計當然有他的道理為什麼他要是獨立機關為什麼他現在在法務部下面的研究院研究院下面的委員會"},{"start":5296.022,"end":5310.355,"text":"那成績差那麼多國家級的研究院的確是個目標但是我們現在剛有跟委員報告政策上我們先用二階段來實施第一階段先設在法務部我沒有看到二階段從106年到113年我只看到整個政策從獨立機關一直演變到三級機關然後把那個委員會放在三級機關之下"},{"start":5321.328,"end":5346.34,"text":"我沒有看到所謂第二階段在哪裡啊當然是我們設在我們法務部底下之後未來評估是不是設在行政院未來評估從106年一直評估到現在113年你如果說世改國資會議是去年開的你現在在說還在未來要評估我還相信你你現在已經106年延誼到113年最後提出來的草案你說啊這個是二階段裡面的一個階段這個我看"},{"start":5347.472,"end":5347.812,"text":"接下來請羅委員至強質詢"},{"start":5384.559,"end":5391.124,"text":"法務部跟廉政署可以說是政府的法律守門人也是政風跟廉潔的守門人嘛 對不對"},{"start":5411.368,"end":5412.149,"text":"主席"},{"start":5428.9,"end":5447.919,"text":"我們的政府在推動2025非核家園為了推動這個目標所以全速的推動綠能可是當我們在發展綠能的時候經濟部他有一個擔憂他怕台灣變成外商套利的這個對象所以在比方說一些風場的開發案上"},{"start":5449.821,"end":5465.157,"text":"他要求開發商一旦接了這個封廠的開發案事故要遵守規定不可以超過股權的50%說你後來接到政府的封廠你接下來事故不可以超過50%那如果你超過"},{"start":5466.158,"end":5487.491,"text":"他就是甚至可以重罰甚至會跟經濟部跟能源局簽訂的離岸風電開發契約會自動失效你覺得我們今天政府設一個所謂的發起人號開發商這個得到政府的這個所謂的風場開發的許可之後不能夠事故到50%以下你覺得這個設規定合理嗎"},{"start":5490.592,"end":5490.612,"text":"經濟部長"},{"start":5509.249,"end":5529.808,"text":"就是我用西施來標結果最後把這個權利賣給東施沒錯吧因為他如果今天我今天是以羅志強身份來標案對不對結果到最後標到案子之後呢結果就把這個標案的權利讓給張三你覺得政府可以允許這種事情嗎"},{"start":5531.141,"end":5553.775,"text":"可不可以部長你應該看過很多政府標案的問題吧對不對署長你也有問署長好了你覺得這樣好嗎我們會請我們的政風注意這個狀況我告訴你不好啦所以經濟部這個規定是合理的問題就來了我想請教您你知道我們在2017年有一家公司叫達德"},{"start":5555.509,"end":5561.353,"text":"他就是獲得我們經濟部號來許可建制允能風力發電廠"},{"start":5563.035,"end":5563.696,"text":"我請問一下署長這個有什麼問題啊"},{"start":5592.745,"end":5618.055,"text":"那我們對這個案件的部分就是說我會請我們政風再瞭解一下詳細的部分非常好非常好這是你回答我待會要問的問題經濟部原來說不可以事故到50%以下這家公司很厲害欸一路就事故到從100到0而且中間都是誰核准的你知道嗎都誰核准的這誰核准的事故是誰來核准的經濟部啊"},{"start":5621.171,"end":5639.543,"text":"經濟部自己設了50%的原則結果讓達德一路四股四道變成是零那我想這中間到底有什麼問題您總知道像這風場動輒利益就上百億吧是很大的因為政府給的短購價格很高嘛這第一個問題我們經濟部長昨天答應過我囉"},{"start":5642.225,"end":5652.27,"text":"他說這個問題為什麼出現這個問題有沒有涉及土利的問題有沒有涉及一些政風的問題他要移交給政風跟檢調我請問部長你有收到了嗎我不會收到這些個案的那個檢舉的話那個會到檢察官嗎來請問廉政署呢你會得到這個訊息嗎目前沒有"},{"start":5666.516,"end":5692.488,"text":"如果接到請你好好地去了解好嗎第二個問題更大了經濟部說不能到50%以下結果一路的準但經濟部也是中間也突然良心發現他中間有一天當達德從48要再去調整要去試骨試到25的時候經濟部也受不了了他說你這樣子不對啊"},{"start":5693.499,"end":5708.363,"text":"你如果這樣做我跟你講我現在直接告訴你你在你拿到電業執照錢你不准再去變更你的股權如果你變更股權我就要罰你了就重罰前面講重罰罰第一個19.2億的這個懲罰性違約金罰第二個更重"},{"start":5714.965,"end":5725.797,"text":"因為我剛剛講 短購價格比我們一般的那個電力成本要高政府是給一個算特許的利益所以政府本來給予允能風場每度電視要用5.8元來買結果經濟部在這個 裡面就會議當中說 如果你再動你違約的話"},{"start":5733.985,"end":5756.268,"text":"我就取消你這給你的短購的這個利益本來5.8塊錢跟你買每度電我改成2.13元跟你買每度電中間差價3.67元然後呢算起來因為他每年可以發22.4億度電5年下來你知道可以總共如果是按迴避成本處罰要處罰多少錢你知道嗎"},{"start":5757.555,"end":5765.419,"text":"數學有點複雜3.67乘以5乘以22.4億411億元第一個是發19.2億元第二是處罰迴避成本將近400億元你知道最後我們經濟部發多少嗎?發3.5億元那我想請問這麼重大的所謂的違反當時經濟部原則的一個做法"},{"start":5787.533,"end":5800.449,"text":"那經濟部本來的裁罰在白紙黑字的那個會議記錄上都說你再變動股權我就要祭出這個處罰了結果我最後達得變成0經濟部最後罰3.5億該罰不罰算不算圖利的一種請問署長"},{"start":5809.155,"end":5836.129,"text":"該罰不罰也是圖利的一種部長最近我們的檢察官辦圖利辦得很辛苦啦對不對也很努力在辦圖利這件事情是經濟部長答應我啦他說要移送到檢察機關移送政風我真的這邊拜託我們的法務部拜託我們檢察官甚至廉政署"},{"start":5837.13,"end":5843.839,"text":"不用等經濟部移送部長雖然很有誠意要移送你們可不可以主動來辦一下聯政署"},{"start":5845.182,"end":5867.758,"text":"可以齁 答應了對不對拜託幫我們好好查清楚政府治理到底出了什麼問題為什麼經濟部明明講不可以事故50%以下結果這家公司可以一路從100趴趴趴趴趴到最後變成0那經濟部中間都已經說你如果再動我要罰你了結果到最後高高舉起400億輕輕放下3.5億"},{"start":5871.122,"end":5888.479,"text":"這中間這麼大的一個所謂的變化那是中間有沒有土地的問題這些都拜託我們這個部長跟署長好好瞭解一下好不好我們來瞭解下一個問題我想請教部長為什麼要有掙扎不公開的設計"},{"start":5892.774,"end":5906.763,"text":"為什麼要偵查不公開我那天跟你聊天的時候我有一個主張你有聽到了對不對我說我們行事訴訟法不要規定偵查不公開啦乾脆改成偵查大公開你贊不贊成直接再行訴法修偵查大公開你贊不贊成你贊不贊成我們還是要落實那個對啊你反對我也反對我是開玩笑的啊專業協會委員就知道我要問什麼"},{"start":5919.673,"end":5946.754,"text":"我在虧你啦沒錯吧請問我們現在偵查不公開這個規定跟偵查大公開到底差別在哪裡我看不懂阿我看不出來阿我隨便舉個例子齁2019年到2023年齁偵查不公開案件檢討數7255件平均一年1450件部長你知道今年上半年檢查機關齁所謂列為檢討案件有多少件嗎今年上半年喔"},{"start":5948.558,"end":5953.165,"text":"檢討的就檢討391件今年上半年齁總共列入要檢討是2035件"},{"start":5956.445,"end":5961.25,"text":"新聞上到處都是偵查公開的訊息阿"},{"start":5979.272,"end":6003.179,"text":"我跟部長說雖然時間不夠啦那我待會後希望您再針對這部分再告訴我你到底解決辦法是什麼但是我要特別強調一件事情我跟部長你也交流你們也覺得你們冤枉嘛不一定是檢察官嘛對不對我相信我們的辦案團隊可是跟部長跟你講我舉個例子我舉很快就講了你講那個論點已經跟我講300遍大概有了"},{"start":6004.275,"end":6032.002,"text":"我也沒說我也沒證據因為我不是檢察官我沒辦案的那個工具我也不知道是不是檢察官洩漏可是我舉個例子今天偵查犯罪是檢察官的職責吧是不是他偵查主題對不對是吧沒錯吧你這個需要任務5秒不需要啦今天我如果跟你講說哇靠不得了我們這個今年上半年有2000多件竊盜案啊"},{"start":6033.806,"end":6048.23,"text":"然後部長說這不是檢察官偷的你覺得這個交代的過去嗎2000多件竊竊案算不算是犯罪案件然後你跟我講你一個都沒抓到是因為這不是檢察官幹的你可以這樣講嗎我告訴你這個比喻非常貼近我今天直接跟你我就問你嘛來來來我跟問部長"},{"start":6060.216,"end":6085.238,"text":"今天偵查不公開 是不是鐵針針的犯罪事實 天天在我們的報紙電視上上演這個媒體這些有報導的 這些報導的源頭在哪裡 這個不能夠說是不是從那個 不是欸 這個媒體報導的不是真實的這些 我要跟部長說 你要這麼違反這個所謂的我們大家能夠看到的眼見為憑的東西 我也佩服你"},{"start":6086.363,"end":6092.068,"text":"今天就這麼多的洩密案在你眼前然後你最後跟我講一句說這不是檢察官洩的就當沒事了"},{"start":6093.174,"end":6117.854,"text":"犯罪偵查我就請問嘛 那麼多泄密案在前面 你們有沒有去偵辦嘛 有沒有約談了誰 有啦 柯文哲案有啦 但是只有柯文哲案嗎 只有那位記者而已嗎好啦 我要主席都站起來 我也不為難主席啦 拜託齁不是啊 我要拜託您啦 真的 你自己列的新聞就那麼多 你辦出來績效是如何 難怪大家對偵查不公開不滿意 謝謝"},{"start":6119.808,"end":6121.369,"text":"謝謝羅委員 謝謝部長 署長接下來請莊委員瑞雄質詢請政部長委員早"},{"start":6149.13,"end":6161.417,"text":"不讓早我想首先我來針對一個時事題來就教一下你的看法是怎麼樣我今天看早上的一個質詢裡面大家幾乎在細節裡面"},{"start":6163.273,"end":6187.245,"text":"那針對我看昨天媒體大家有看到了美國戰略跟國際問題研究中心發布關於這個中國反分裂國家法這個明年20週年那他們可能就是說他們要去修法去修法以後為以後使用武力統一台灣提供一個合法性我不曉得站在法務部你的立場裡面你的看法裡面這個到底我們是應該去修改國內法"},{"start":6193.234,"end":6193.494,"text":"的確是反這個"},{"start":6218.548,"end":6234.037,"text":"這個反分類國家法這部分的確是有造成我們臺灣我們我國人民的一些的這些的恐懼當然會那我想委員關心這問題這是非常重要的一個國安的一個問題"},{"start":6237.139,"end":6258.917,"text":"這部分我們是贊成如果說有制定新法的必要的話當然以我們本部來講只能用國際法的觀念這部分詳細的是不是可以請調查局長來做一個答案可以啊我反而倒會認為說你至少法務部針對這一些你會認為說那是老共強得要死我們也不用去擬他"},{"start":6259.818,"end":6276.384,"text":"你看昨天外交部發言人毛寧被問到這個問題的時候日本的記者就問他嘛他就直接講這個是中國的內政任何國家都不能干涉他的講法就非常強悍啦要比強悍他就叫做後懼小朋友我以為部長你會講得很強你知道嗎至少像面對這種問題不能說法務部都沒有關係阿好像就會覺得說沒辦法"},{"start":6286.562,"end":6287.464,"text":"法務部這題幾乎都是缺席的我認為這不對"},{"start":6302.14,"end":6324.685,"text":"我認為不對,你至少有很多智庫嘛,法務部裡面有很多專家嘛,既就法務部你還可以單槓一個,你適度的一個發言,這可以很有安定民心的一個作用啊,這不只是總統的成績,這也不是只有這個整個行政院的成績啊,你小小的一個中國的外交部的一個發言人,然後你就出來給你指三道四啦。"},{"start":6325.526,"end":6326.087,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":6342.685,"end":6343.105,"text":"這個聲音都太微弱"},{"start":6360.476,"end":6360.496,"text":"王國興議員"},{"start":6380.594,"end":6393.764,"text":"昨天剛好我也在外交國安委員會備詢那這部分我有跟沈伯陽委員也有做過討論那他也有提到說其實我們應該要在外犯罪的部分應該要有一個修法的一個表達"},{"start":6398.735,"end":6416.276,"text":"你的態度是什麼?我們當然是非常的不同意啊,對啊,非常不同意中國這樣子的一個做法你不能跟人家說不同意啊,你不能跟人家說不同意啊,我認為這個在國會殿堂上這樣打都不及格啦然後你說不同意,你不同意那民眾說啊?法務部在司法委員裡面說不同意捏,這樣就好了?"},{"start":6419.045,"end":6420.186,"text":"我是覺得這樣太過於微弱了 請回來我要來今天正入"},{"start":6438.86,"end":6439.06,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6459.509,"end":6485.7,"text":"這樣的一個討論有助於我們整個實質修法的一個建議在我們憲法第78條裡面去講司法院本來就是解釋憲法跟統一解釋法律跟命令所以大法官會議這樣的一個判決不要去談拘束力的當然一定會有拘束力所以我要請教部長的就是說就變成說我們大家在討論討論就是說如何針對整個程序讓它更完備"},{"start":6487.847,"end":6490.889,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會第5次全體委員會"},{"start":6508.862,"end":6532.87,"text":"14歲以下的那些你根本你也沒辦法自己安排那甚至於啊說你到如果說我們憲法的我們刑法的一個規定如果說14歲以上不到18歲他認為他的罪責能力就比較低甚至於80歲以上或者精神障礙甚至於陰陽或心智缺陷辨識能力在行為時他降低的時候這些都不得"},{"start":6533.67,"end":6549.58,"text":"去處以極刑所以都要去減輕那至法律效果來講目前是減輕可是法律實務上我相信也沒有人會認為說未滿18歲或者說這一些看起來心智比較減弱的人去把他處以極刑就是死刑但是這次修法來看的話我不曉得針對憲判制這樣第8號提出來第7點部長你的看法未來整個修法的方向你會怎麼看"},{"start":6560,"end":6575.651,"text":"這部分齁我們有提出那個根據這個憲法憲判意旨我們有就刑法63條做一個提出的一個修正的一個草案因為這個也是跟的也是配合那個憲法現在刑法19條的那當然啦那當然啦所以你現在就是說那個刑法63條那你從哪裡放進去"},{"start":6582.188,"end":6589.433,"text":"本來我一直在想說你那個19條第二項後段本來是得檢清其刑嘛那些得你做一個修改我也不認為我們社會大眾會認為說這個就是在廢死了我們也不是什麼樣的狀況什麼樣的一個犯罪行為全部都會處罰到死刑或者無期徒刑那像這一種很明顯的在罪責"},{"start":6607.765,"end":6621.222,"text":"他根本就不足以來在他行為階段的時候去辨識他在做這件事情的時候,或者判斷能力跟一般的正常人不一樣,他去做這樣一個犯罪行為的時候,你說要被處罰到那裡,那就是我們民間常常說的,就是笑的在他旁邊啦,就是笑的在那邊"},{"start":6626.71,"end":6627.651,"text":"那我另外要來就教"},{"start":6653.673,"end":6674.284,"text":"這個就是一個大問題了我們國家司法科學研究院組織法的一個進度跟建議我一直都認為立法院裡面當然在修法必須要去回應民意但是我們也必須要去謹慎牽一法而動全身在高度專業跟民意之間你必須要去做一個平衡"},{"start":6674.904,"end":6696.05,"text":"我相信部長這邊應該也去看到了你們的業務報告要推動國家司法科學研究院在今年8月的時候就已經送行政院去審查以目前來看的話你這個組織法跟現行法務部法醫研究所你們到底有什麼具體的差別嗎我是不希望他只是換湯不換藥你的方向"},{"start":6704.887,"end":6722.772,"text":"謝謝委員的關心那基本上就是說差距完全是不一樣的怎麼說呢我們如果升格為國家司法科學研究院的話我們會負責國家司法科學的一個政策的擬定還有這個"},{"start":6725.029,"end":6727.831,"text":"我比較擔心的是當事人的防禦權的問題我們都很清楚"},{"start":6749.127,"end":6771.352,"text":"在一個審判庭上齁所有沒有在審判庭揭示的證據除了那些例外以外全部都是傳聞喔那你這個如果升格以後提升上來以後他變成是一個權威的一個鑑定機構那你現在鑑定人除非雙方同意當事人同意或者那另外兩項例外不用倒庭"},{"start":6774.07,"end":6799.827,"text":"我現在很擔心的是說你把它當成是一個我們修法完以後把它提升到整個國家司法科學研究院那你這個鑑定出來機關的名義出去那又變成形成傳聞法則的一個例外這樣到時候如果說你的這個鑑定過程裡面有出現問題的話"},{"start":6801.51,"end":6805.534,"text":"司法研究院作出的一個鑑定報告是機關出去喔阿人不用倒庭這樣哪通這樣通嗎報委沒有這個問題阿為什麼沒有這個問題"},{"start":6823.798,"end":6838.19,"text":"刑事訴訟法偵查審判的時候還是要由檢察官法官來指揮檢察官法官如果認為有必要還是可以傳鑑定人到場來作證我們上次在修去年在修刑事訴訟法這個地方就出現漏洞"},{"start":6841.285,"end":6857.592,"text":"我們當初是在講說你那個例外是在講當事人民事同意還有依法執掌類型像譬如說內政部刑事警察局法務部調查局衛部司官署還是說主管機關認定的醫院實驗室團體符合這一些都不用出庭"},{"start":6860.009,"end":6860.81,"text":"會不會有妨礙到當事人在訴訟上攻防有舉他的權益的問題"},{"start":6875.583,"end":6895.551,"text":"法委沒有這個問題,原則上有政績能力,但是必要的時候,當事人、被告或律師還是可以來請求傳喚你講的那個是法院,如果案子我在審,當然我可以把鑑定人"},{"start":6896.551,"end":6922.8,"text":"請到法院上來接受兩照或者是訴訟辯護人的他的一個他之間的一個結論嘛那當然可以那如果他不要呢他就直接跟你這樣講咧來來市長跟我們報告齁即使在機關鑑定的狀況下我們現行法規範還是可以請求他到院來說明跟這個相關鑑定的要到院說明他並沒有排除鑑定的到院說明可是因為我們有創設例外啊因為訴訟法現在有"},{"start":6924.401,"end":6940.641,"text":"即使機關鑑定他現在多了一個他必須要拒明跟拒絕吧而且必須要到法院來說明他有規定我現在比較擔心的就是說對於不利益的一個鑑定喔那我們刑事訴訟裡面這樣的一個規定裡面那法官他也有可能我相信權威啊"},{"start":6941.93,"end":6952.232,"text":"他沒有免除這個鑑定的道庭說明的義務未來還是要說明所以我是比較擔心不會造成這種狀況好謝謝謝謝莊委員謝謝部長次長跟接下來待會在鍾嘉斌委員質詢完畢我們休息10分鐘接下來有請吳委員中線質詢"},{"start":6973.251,"end":6976.015,"text":"有請鄭部長委員好部長早"},{"start":6988.947,"end":7010.962,"text":"今天主要還是就你們這次業務報告的有關憲法法庭死刑判決的核心解釋這部分去討論那我想說我們今天就不要聚焦在很混亂的地方而聚焦在精神心智缺陷或是精神障礙不得判處死刑就我們都很清楚這一次大法官其實"},{"start":7012.484,"end":7036.681,"text":"這次大法官他的判決其實我個人認為這是一個完全宿愛裁判的一個憲判那他對於這個精神障礙的部分他從行為時、審判時跟執行時他設了三個關卡那這個都是以前沒有的概念那因為以前我們只知道刑法19條是以行為時為判斷基礎那這次大法官他直接又下了一大堆"},{"start":7038.387,"end":7063.846,"text":"根本我覺得以前就從來沒想過的東西在裡面那這個處處其實很簡單嘛這就是實質廢死啦這就實質廢死這不用在那邊跟我們在那邊玩文字遊戲說這不叫實質廢死然後講了一大堆五四三的那個都在騙國人那部長你知不知道這次大法官有點名三個死刑犯就他們審理的時候有無金帳有無自我辯護的能力不得判死這個部長知道吧"},{"start":7065.112,"end":7068.176,"text":"現行法律有規定審判時不得判死嗎?"},{"start":7086.072,"end":7086.773,"text":"當初殺了他的媽媽、婆婆、先生的林于如"},{"start":7119.221,"end":7132.434,"text":"大法官認為他審判的時候有精神障礙導致自我辨識能力不足不能判死刑而且兩年內要修法那這個東西他的律師說智能不足這個部長你知道是怎麼回事嗎"},{"start":7134.958,"end":7143.915,"text":"這個是一個個案的話我不清楚他這個這個個案的智能不足的好那我跟你講齁這個他所謂個案的智能不足就是他在某一次"},{"start":7145.637,"end":7167.973,"text":"審理的時候法官給他做智力測驗,測定他只有57那這個理由來當作不能判死刑的理由我這覺得是蠻離譜的啦因為你要知道一個智商110的人他要演成自己是57很容易那你57要演成110是很難那如果這樣子的話這種智能鑑定就可以當作是一個理由"},{"start":7168.954,"end":7175.344,"text":"我只要做智力測驗我每一題都寫錯就好啦那我智力可能只剩下30啊所以我我真的覺得這個是"},{"start":7177.591,"end":7205.021,"text":"大法官他的這些想法齁我也只能說看為觀止啦那大法官其實就是為這37個死刑犯在那邊秀喵喵要盡量的保護他們那像李玉如這個案子他在三省也有做延遲辯論所以他的程序完備那程序完備的時候大法官就幫他找一個理由說他曾經有救省能力有問題智力只有57然後這樣子來去做這樣子的對法務部的要求齁那我"},{"start":7206.581,"end":7225.151,"text":"我個人完全不認同,我也希望說部長能夠稍微了解一下這個案子因為你們自己業務報告這個案件現在這個死刑犯的這些,確定死刑犯的這些現在是一憲判一職,現在就是要有總長來審核"},{"start":7228.238,"end":7230.039,"text":"一個人在行為時他懂得用藥去處理他自己的先生"},{"start":7244.944,"end":7267.498,"text":"那那個藥是什麼藥要去哪裡買我都不知道了結果他竟然知道他也知道要還賭債知道要詐領保險金知道要預謀殺人知道希望檢察官趕快給他的証明書這些他都清清楚楚他甚至比很多代書都還要厲害了比很多律師都還要懂了結果大家認為說他救省能力有問題這個就是我要點出來現在實務上面"},{"start":7269.287,"end":7298.165,"text":"會遇到的一個問題就是當事人只要在庭上裝瘋賣傻在那邊填寫錯誤的智力測驗的答案那今天他就可以逃過死刑那這是我對於現在大法官的認定出來我的見解啦那當然我也是看看總長以後會怎麼做決策我們會去等著看嘛就大家來看看總長會怎麼做決定啦所以只以智力測驗就可以認定有無精神障礙心智缺陷我真的是完全的不認同"},{"start":7299.807,"end":7329.006,"text":"那這個根本就是加上了以前法律19條以外根本就沒有這樣的規範嘛那加這個規範的目的是什麼我也不懂啦所以大法官現在變成是繼承法官的太上皇像林玉如的案子總共有19位法官審過結果就幾個大法官他最後做出來的先判決推翻了他們以前的死刑確定判決這我看到的整個程序走到今天就是這個樣子所以呢是不是大法官自己在違憲"},{"start":7330.287,"end":7330.848,"text":"我自己的感覺是這樣"},{"start":7350.781,"end":7370.163,"text":"我後來發現很多民眾把大法官跟法官混在一起了其實法官是法官大法官是大法官大法官是執政者任命的根本跟一般普通法院的法官不一樣很多人民搞錯了很多政治人物就故意在誤導人民這個方向那我的感覺是這樣今天執政者要這些大法官出來去幹盡他們想要幹的壞事"},{"start":7371.445,"end":7372.606,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":7394.707,"end":7406.66,"text":"不得執行實行這個變成你們都要去跟著這套法官這樣走嘛你們也沒有其他的辦法對不對然後我在 沒關係部長"},{"start":7408.544,"end":7435.187,"text":"而且這次大法官的憲判制他對於修復式的正義 隻字未提他只在幫死刑犯逃脫死刑但是對於被害人我們這麼多年司法署上面一直講求的修復式正義大法官卻隻字未提他從來沒有去管過這一塊所以我真的不懂這大法官他到底心裡想的是什麼是為這些王八蛋政客在服務嗎部長我上次問過你"},{"start":7437.23,"end":7460.28,"text":"非常上述成功之後回到普通法院審理回到普通法院審理之後就有無罪推定所以我們就把它當作這一群人都是無罪的人去做無罪推定那我也再三的跟你說除非除非有法官敢違法的下羈押的裁定不然這些人就要放出去欸你101條跟101條刑訴101條跟101條之一哪一些東西可以羈押清清楚楚"},{"start":7466.263,"end":7490.655,"text":"所以法官要怎麼樣做違法的裁定呢?譬如說林玉如好了,智商57他出去要怎麼篡政?智商57有篡政的能力嗎?有逃亡的能力嗎?所以到底要怎麼樣認定一個智商57的人他出去有篡政逃亡之餘那請問一下法官要如何能夠違法的裁定機啊?那法官只要不裁定機啊,這37個人就有可能會出去啊"},{"start":7491.255,"end":7518.676,"text":"甚至我們上次有講到了 羈押3個月 延押12個月延押12個月期滿了只有15個月根本就來不及審判完畢嘛那如果你還要再送精神鑑定或這些廢死團體幫他申請一次兩次的精神鑑定那就超過15個月啦那這些人是不是要放出來所以我在這邊要跟所有的人講這些人就是有可能其中一部分會被放出來會回歸到社會那部裡面有什麼做法"},{"start":7521.189,"end":7550.595,"text":"那個先判第8號的判決意旨有提醒有提醒這個撤銷的這個最高法院會撤銷判決他那個要做注意羈押的問題重新的計算這個羈押的期間部長不要講這些廢話這個委員關心的是不是會放的問題我想這個個案我對案情是不是有沒有101條或101條之一的情形這個我沒辦法去做一個判斷但是我們檢查該做的我們會要求我們就會促請法官去"},{"start":7551.475,"end":7554.777,"text":"我相信法官有他的智慧會去審酌這個被告應該羈押的理由"},{"start":7567.583,"end":7591.019,"text":"不是因為部長不要繞圈子嘛我們都很內行刑訴訟法這個這些人就可能不被押或超過羈押的期限而被放出來回歸到社會只要有一個人回歸到社會部長這個對目前的執政黨已經對您都是重大的傷害我在這邊只能這樣子跟你說反正你跟我繞圈子我也聽不到我問了兩個禮拜我還是聽不到我要的答案那就算了齁"},{"start":7591.88,"end":7615.056,"text":"然後我再來跟你們報告一件事情從鐵路殺警案一審無罪二審有罪整個精神鑑定是天翻地覆看起來就是精神鑑定跟DNA的鑑定不一樣DNA鑑定準確率非常高但精神鑑定常常翻來覆去那會不會變成是很多團體把你精神鑑定到反正有一天要出到他的答案就可以所以"},{"start":7615.794,"end":7616.074,"text":"好最後齁"},{"start":7638.332,"end":7658.06,"text":"我認為啦就是因為我們對於羈押的要件我們都很清楚嘛所以這37個死刑犯最後回到普通法院無罪推定之後確實很有可能法官根本無法羈押因為與法不合嘛那與法不合的情況下這37個很快就放出來或是超過羈押的期間就放出來"},{"start":7658.72,"end":7668.135,"text":"所以一定要詳實的告訴這個社會部長你上一次在巡打的時候謝謝你很有勇氣的告訴我們說確實沒有把握他們能夠繼續壓著"},{"start":7670.798,"end":7698.552,"text":"謝謝你至少你上次是有勇氣啦因為這個時機啊這是屬於法對這個是事實而不是上次吳思堯那樣子胡說八道那邊政客亂帶風向我想我們檢察會盡量做我們檢察官職責的權利去做我們職責的事情謝謝謝謝部長我想說委員你也是當過檢察我們能夠做我們會全力說我想窮勢一列力量不讓這些人走入市場部長為什麼我對這次那麼生氣是因為我真的很重視社會治安因為我覺得這是所有人都希望的我們都不希望有一個殺人犯"},{"start":7699.568,"end":7725.179,"text":"回到社會然後如果你住同一個社區你坐電梯會跟他一起坐你心裡會不會害怕我今天在想的只是這個東西所以我是跟部長報告一件事情在我心中齁我覺得政客齁為的是下一次選舉政治家為的是下一代的幸福然後我很謝謝部長上次有勇氣把話說出來這些人確實有可能將來會回歸到社會"},{"start":7726.854,"end":7747.791,"text":"我是希望說我覺得所有的官員們跟大法官都不要都不要像這些法盲的政客一樣在那邊在那邊裝傻在那邊講出與法不合的事實這是我的期待所以我上次也說在場其實有非常多法官假官的學長們我如果今天我在法律的部分我有講錯都歡迎來批評我"},{"start":7749.412,"end":7769.108,"text":"但是我今天就是要在這邊要告訴大家這37個死刑犯真的有部分人很快的會回歸到社會這個我不贊成這種的說法我對法官要有信心我想這個是三審定讞的三審定讞的而且憲判一十八號也提醒這個法官要注意其他的問題而且他給人要重新計算部長"},{"start":7769.568,"end":7770.028,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":7785.114,"end":7806.623,"text":"他對於羈押的要件這些人不符合啊所以當我們對法官有信心他一把下裁定就是不能押嘛那你也只能這樣講嘛我沒有懲辦這個個案所以我不能講但是我想我們會要求檢察官去窮一切的力量去建立法官羈押"},{"start":7807.463,"end":7811.667,"text":"部長你講的沒錯就是你能做的以及現在檢察官能做所以這個問題的話你講的都沒錯部長你講的完全正確"},{"start":7823.378,"end":7846.597,"text":"確實你可以請檢察官 積極的請法官裁定羈押但我這邊要告訴部長的是 法官依法 如果真的依法處理的話我如果是這些3、7個人的律師 我就跟你打 他就不符合羈押的要件嘛這個問題喔 我想說由司法院陳辦法官來回答這個問題 這個會比較比我還...好 部長 OK 你這樣的回答我接受 但是我就是要告訴你 他們就是可能不押 就這麼簡單"},{"start":7848.157,"end":7863.476,"text":"他就是可能不押否則你跟我講他們符合什麼逃亡之餘符合什麼篡政之餘如果這個都沒有那也沒有那個關了20幾年也沒有反復實施之餘請問一下你可以創設新的法律來叫法官裁定羈押嗎"},{"start":7864.477,"end":7867.059,"text":"這不是智慧的問題這是法律的問題我國是法治國家部長檢察官們是聰明人我是笨蛋嗎我沒有辦法看懂法律嗎你今天講了什麼話"},{"start":7885.39,"end":7906.306,"text":"我不懂你這什麼意思嘛我剛已經說了你講的話我能夠認同就是你可以請檢察官積極的去向法官審理羈押但是我在這裡也告訴你依據我國現行刑事訴訟法的規定法官要押的理由在哪裡我真的還是想不到我問了超過20個我的同學的法官他們也說依照現行法就是沒有辦法押"},{"start":7908.22,"end":7908.68,"text":"我可以接受你這句話"},{"start":7928.738,"end":7930.14,"text":"致以法官那部份我想法官有他的智慧"},{"start":7964.602,"end":7990.661,"text":"好,下一位我們請鍾嘉斌委員發言主席、財政委員、先進列席政務集團所長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生那麼有請我們的鄭部長還有我兩司的孟司長好,孟司長稍微好等一下"},{"start":7992.52,"end":8020.448,"text":"好部長好師長好來部長那個我昨天齁司法法制委員會安排考察你知道吧部長我們去看屏東地院和屏東地檢那麼我們是希望未來能夠留住司法人才為屏東鄉親服務不管是法官還是檢察官我們要考量他們的居住需求而且未來的司法園區能夠考量到便民可能像包括行政執行署他們這些相關的機構都能納進來請問你知不知這樣的做法"},{"start":8022.626,"end":8046.9,"text":"委員對我們非常的感謝委員的對我們的支持好謝謝那後續請你要指派專人我希望包括跟行政執行署還有國產署還有司法院都會邀請他們那當然最重要的就是要敦請我們屏東縣政府一起來共同參與希望部長來用力推動好不好謝謝來我們來看一下來請問部長有沒有看到這個新聞"},{"start":8047.84,"end":8061.735,"text":"外國人在外國犯了罪逃到台灣要如何論罪?這個新聞說有個西班牙裔的他義大利色詐騙來到台灣之後呢身份就接入了後來您知道台灣要怎麼處理嗎?你有知道這個新聞嗎?這個有這樣的一個新聞那他怎麼處理?"},{"start":8067.583,"end":8093.935,"text":"這個移民署移民署有說什麼移民署有在限期出境要驅逐出境就是有10月10號有通知他到岸說是要在台灣把他抓起來審理還是引渡回學去西班牙還是義大利還是要驅逐出境現在是要求出境那台灣跟西班牙義大利國際刑事組織有沒有互助條約我們怎麼樣掌握這些國際通緝犯在台的動向這個我是請市長的回答"},{"start":8094.343,"end":8094.363,"text":"市長簡單講"},{"start":8112.449,"end":8113.169,"text":"台灣人在台灣涉案之後跑到日本去"},{"start":8140.788,"end":8148.402,"text":"怎麼辦?我們有一個2023年有台日有簽訂司法合作備忘錄可以視訊詢問還是可以引渡回台?"},{"start":8150.134,"end":8178.081,"text":"有關台日的這個合作備忘錄是在法律的一些相關的資料交換上面有這樣的一個所以跟涉案人的部分沒有關聯還不達到來我們往下看現在就規定啦聽說有一個涉及到目前這個檢聯正在調查中的案子的關係人呢可能是證人可能要傳喚他已經跑到日本去了那麼結果呢這個人在日本日本政府可以怎麼處理他他可以一直躲在日本嗎"},{"start":8180.843,"end":8203.91,"text":"先不要問司長了,部長你覺得咧?但是媒體說除非遭驅逐出境,因為台日沒有簽司法附註,沒有辦法遣返,是不是這樣子?是這樣子嗎?所以只要這個人沒有違反日本的法律就可以繼續停留在日本,我們無奈他何,對不對?是不是這樣子?在日本沒有違法,日本就不會驅逐他出境嗎?有沒有?"},{"start":8205.489,"end":8231.457,"text":"其實過往這種例子我們的警方都會設法透過比如說國際刑警組織或者是跟日本的這個警方透過警方的這個合作關係然後希望他們能夠怎麼樣他在日本沒有犯法日本警方奈他何其實我們很多在第三國犯罪的這些台灣的在台灣犯罪他在日本沒有犯罪你怎麼到日本警方把他送出來這個部分"},{"start":8235.236,"end":8257.157,"text":"部長知道原因了齁往下看所以其實這個是互助啦相對的台灣人在外國犯罪我們可不可以把他引渡回國我們也看到一些我們當然是反對毒品的販運但是的確我們看到一些個案有些台灣的年輕人在泰國在東南亞這些國家是對毒品管制很嚴格的他幫人家帶登機箱被抓到了關在泰國的監獄裡面"},{"start":8258.53,"end":8268.473,"text":"你覺得這樣的臺灣的人法務部會希望將國人引渡回臺來臺灣接受這個論罪判刑甚至接受我們的剿制嗎那我想這個引渡也就是回國來接受是嗎那這些泰國有沒有沒有嘛越南有沒有"},{"start":8281.857,"end":8298.712,"text":"委員我們跟泰國跟越南都沒有簽署任何引渡的條約都沒有也沒有任何的互助嗎所以如果國人因為在其他國家像泰國或越南不慎犯了當地的重罪他大概就注定要在那邊關一輩子很可能是這樣嗎是不是這樣"},{"start":8299.738,"end":8324.772,"text":"您現在是說如果他在那邊當地犯罪被判刑被入監復刑的那個是涉及到受刑人移交的問題是那怎麼移交我們有沒有也是有司法互助的範圍嗎我們有受刑人移交法有受刑人移交部長那就是我今天要問的往下我們的結論小潔請是不是積極推動我們國兩司的國際的司法互助防止嫌犯出國也能夠順利不管是引渡還是移交回國內來處刑來執行可不可以"},{"start":8328.032,"end":8352.048,"text":"願不願意自己來處理我們會自己來處理好來我們往下看來部長最近有一些社會新聞未照車牌很多人被害你覺得為什麼什麼樣的案件會未照車牌舉個例子以前看警匪騙歹徒作案之前搶銀行都是先偷髒車偷了車髒車做完案燒掉對不對是不是這樣子為什麼要用髒車犯罪"},{"start":8353.269,"end":8353.409,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":8373.68,"end":8374.541,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":8396.789,"end":8420.384,"text":"我有去報私嘛是不是這樣子我有去報私那基本上大概作案就跟我無關了嘛而且我報私之後警方會幫忙查這個是髒車歹徒拿去作案可能容易被抓到所以往下看現在這個偽造車牌呢就是因為車主不知道沒有人去報案車子也沒有掛也沒有報私所以呢他繼續用這個車輛的去作案製造的斷點是不是這樣是"},{"start":8421.445,"end":8447.076,"text":"那他這段時間的交通回歸都算誰的算原車主的那車主怎麼辦吃罰單然後呢要去監理站要去撤銷要去舉證然後呢還要換車牌部長你知道嗎換車牌要不要錢要這又跑這些行政作業要不要時間要然後呢這個民眾無辜的民眾呢被人家調查他舉證說那個車子不是我的要不要花工夫要那部長怎麼辦"},{"start":8449.395,"end":8463.164,"text":"你知道衛照車牌有多重嗎?有多重的罪嗎?新法212它是一年以下局域跟九千的罰金一年以下所以就知道了吧偷車拿髒車去翻案跟衛照車牌哪個罪比較重?"},{"start":8465.874,"end":8491.899,"text":"當然是偷車去追比較重啊衛照車牌什麼但是這是民國17年修正通過的當時說考量到什麼基於謀生意識便利這是民國17年的法律啊民國113年欸衛照車牌算不算衛照公文書特種文書那為什麼衛照特種文書是重罪啊那為什麼只有判一年以下因為刑法212條嘛"},{"start":8493.971,"end":8497.987,"text":"他把他排除在衛照特種文書之外部長要不要修法"},{"start":8498.992,"end":8525.873,"text":"這部分我們已經納入那個行修小組的會議那個在11月份下個月就會開會你們怎麼方向修法方向是把它排除視同偽造文書還是不是偽造文書但是加重其刑他有兩種的一個方式立法的方式一種是在直接在212來修法因為一種就是比照附照條例附集法再倒交條例新增特別的那要罰多少要怎麼處罰怎麼量刑"},{"start":8528.257,"end":8546.458,"text":"那這部分還在研修小組再做一個討論那不會是一年以下吧偷車要多少年?竊盜罪幾年?竊盜罪幾年?竊盜罪是五年以下五年以下嘛所以我就不要去偷張車了嘛我未照車牌就好了嘛一年以下嘛方向是多少?加重到幾年?市長請說"},{"start":8548.547,"end":8576.597,"text":"報告委員這個212的議題本來在這個15號就是前天的行修小組要討論對但因為我們討論的方向有兩種一個就是212把它廢除掉並到就直接用公文書的刑度來處罰另外一種方向就212加重刑度的一個方式那因為15號來不及討論會下個月就排進去我們行修小組好下個月部長本席有提案啦齁部長那你覺得"},{"start":8577.639,"end":8604.266,"text":"要加重處刑吧?要不要?這個應該可以要調整心情但是我不只要求這個還要怎樣?還要補償什麼?受害人受害人不是犯罪受害人喔被偽造車牌車主他花的這些時間這些困擾要不要補償他?怎麼補償?偽造車牌的人能夠補償這個車牌的原車主嗎?你們有沒有一個犯罪被害人的一個基金?請問一下我的車牌被人家偽造了我花那麼多功夫"},{"start":8605.185,"end":8605.745,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":8633.676,"end":8650.492,"text":"這個案子很簡單嘛法官看一看你要民事訴訟啊那就賠多少啊大概有個數字啊你們難道要逼著我們法院跟這個車牌的車主被害人去走這個途徑嗎有沒有辦法在我們的法制上予以一個通案的設定讓他很簡易的就可以得到補償部長有沒有可能考慮一下"},{"start":8655.714,"end":8667.322,"text":"我們可以研議可以研議好我們希望偽造車牌這幾年基礎越演越烈都跟詐騙有關以前偷車拿張車去犯案都是暴力犯罪"},{"start":8668.476,"end":8669.277,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":8691.277,"end":8713.749,"text":"那現在這麼多如果不及時的修法遏止會有越來越多不只是詐騙案還有很多車牌被偽造的車主他有很大的損失是不是就是說我們考量一下要補償這些受害人好不好演繹一下是可以嗎好我們先演繹好謝謝好那我們就現在依照先前的宣告休息10分鐘"},{"start":9323.203,"end":9326.366,"text":"好 我們繼續開會 現在有請翁委員小林質詢有請鄭部長有請鄭部長"},{"start":9347.538,"end":9356.015,"text":"首先請教部長,您上星期的國慶日,您有去參加總統府前的國慶大會嗎?有。您當時坐在哪?"},{"start":9357.027,"end":9362.969,"text":"我想請問一下您當天與貪汙犯陳水扁同台您的內心感受是如何?"},{"start":9381.548,"end":9408.854,"text":"這份我是沒有注意到你沒有注意到?陳水扁當天是參加國慶大典但是我沒有去看他坐在哪裡所以您不知道他會要參加國慶是有這個訊息說會參加國慶所以這個事情你有同意嗎?所以他事前有向矯正署臺中監獄有申請核准可以參加國慶大會嗎?"},{"start":9410.654,"end":9419.993,"text":"這部分是台中建立在做一個處理那矯正署不知道嗎那我是不是請矯正署來待會回答今天周署長有來是不是"},{"start":9425.578,"end":9444.575,"text":"他每個月都會派人過去探視那針對國慶這個陳水扁他本身在9月24號的時候台中間有特別叮嚀他有這個相關活動務必要事先來報告"},{"start":9446.036,"end":9459.224,"text":"那在9號那時候還沒有那台中建議在9號10月9號的時候有主動掌握了那個陳水扁要出席我們10月10號的國慶大典"},{"start":9461.545,"end":9476.032,"text":"那所以那個我們臺中監獄也有派專人到場說證來那即初步的了解因為這是慶籌會國慶籌備委員會的一個邀請卡而且總統府也有專人打電話給陳水扁先生要這個慶祝國家的幸福好簡單來說就是因為呢上面的這個總統說要邀陳水扁"},{"start":9491.88,"end":9501.548,"text":"臺中監獄雖然前一天就掌握了資訊可是沒有辦法還只能夠陪同去蒐證然後也沒有說是直接告訴陳水扁你不能夠參加國慶大會我必須要講這件事情"},{"start":9516.052,"end":9544.077,"text":"在本席的這個眼裡我認為他就是一個司法的這個最大的一個恥辱當天陳水扁坐在這個VVIP的這個貴賓席上面後面是司法院院長然後部長您也是在這個另外可能不是正中間的主席台旁邊的貴賓席您怎麼可能會不知道陳水扁會參加國慶大典"},{"start":9545.779,"end":9561.025,"text":"一個貪汙犯跟我們現在的司法機關的最重要的兩位首長同台很狠的將司法尊嚴踩在腳下這不是司法最大的挫敗跟恥辱嗎我必須說"},{"start":9567.145,"end":9568.866,"text":"報告委員可以容我回答嗎?"},{"start":9582.325,"end":9605.474,"text":"請說你委員報告這次陳水扁出席國慶大典他是由慶酬會來邀請的而且是經過慶酬會有慶酬會的角色但是你們可以不同意是不是過去你們這個有同意過嗎好我們看一下下一頁基本上對於陳水扁"},{"start":9609.435,"end":9635.721,"text":"他已經保外就醫將近10年現在已經延長了39次了我不知道臺中監獄這10年來對於陳水扁的表現是視若無睹嗎他可以主持廣播節目他可以代理他的女兒去當訴訟的律師然後呢參加各式各樣的活動然後甚至還參加國慶大典"},{"start":9638.168,"end":9665.935,"text":"在陳水扁的眼裡,他會認為說你們會不同意嗎?你們過去都沒有修正嗎?有,報告委員,我們臺中建議會依照我們保外意志的審核基準跟管理辦法來做相關的修正所以呢,修正之後的結果呢?陳水扁的這些行為符合你們自己所定的這個審核基準的辦法嗎?"},{"start":9667.233,"end":9685.086,"text":"他是日常生活所必須嗎?參加國慶大典是他日常生活所必須嗎?擔任他的女兒的訴訟代理人是主持廣播節目是跟他生活有關嗎?是,臺中建議會參考高雄義大跟高雄長庚醫院的遺囑"},{"start":9687.108,"end":9705.81,"text":"包括他的出遊黃遊去山他是醫主上面認為對他的治療是有正面意義的好所以呢治療到現在10年了確實是頗有成效他是完全恢復正常這樣的情況之下為什麼他可以不重返回到監獄裡面去服刑"},{"start":9707.389,"end":9731.449,"text":"全國人民都在看都在看你法務部怎麼做報告委員陳水扁的身心狀況他還是有必要再做職能治療的他不是說已經我一直說他未來出獄之後他還要這個工作嗎事實證明他的職能恢復的很好啊還幫他的女兒去當訴訟律師啊"},{"start":9733.641,"end":9755.2,"text":"主長您今天說這句話您都不覺得慚愧嗎?你曉得現在保外就醫的受刑人在保外就醫的期間他的死亡率有多高?你知道嗎?我們常常看到新聞保外就醫的受刑人可能短短一兩個月的時間可能就往生了"},{"start":9757.094,"end":9758.715,"text":"報告委員我們委員應該有收到我們的數據我們累積今年總共有499位在外面保外遺址那今年累積到9月份有129人死了"},{"start":9781.567,"end":9803.744,"text":"我希望矯正署、法務部這裡你們可以把保外就醫的這個受刑人他們出獄的治療的期間還有什麼時候回去以及他的死亡是出獄他的保外就醫在外面多久的時間之內他就是就往生你們要把這些數據全部講得清清楚楚"},{"start":9804.994,"end":9824.827,"text":"本席昨天研究了這張表我看了很久我後來今天重新計算我告訴你大概就是像是人權促進會講的啦出去一半以上五六成的這個保衛就醫的受刑人都會往生而且事實上本來就是他如果不是很嚴重的疾病你戒護就醫就可以了啊"},{"start":9828.769,"end":9838.913,"text":"講證書臺中監獄乃至於這個政部長我真的希望你們能夠把司法的公平正義隨時要放在心裡放在你們的腦海裡啊今天為什麼陳水扁的這個事情會讓可能慶仇會也忘記了也淡忘了全社會的人都淡忘了他是一個貪污犯他被判刑20年"},{"start":9855.117,"end":9873.2,"text":"為什麼到現在法院可以停審這麼久而我們的檢察官也沒有主動的向法院提起說要繼續審判這個停止事件 停審的事件那個臺北地檢署有多次的發函"},{"start":9874.605,"end":9880.408,"text":"盾請法院要開始麻煩請把這個數據給我至少以後我不會誤會說地檢署失職這是很嚴重的問題我們刑法裡面其實都有處罰濫權不起訴或不處罰或不執行處罰的罪那這個相關的數據我就在跟我們在書面今天講到這個事情其實我真的認為全台灣的人民都在看"},{"start":9904.485,"end":9930.753,"text":"我已經不止一次的從我擔任立法委員以來我就一直很在意這個事情為什麼 如果說是認為陳水扁他之前當過總統那現在都民進黨執政已經前面8年接下來未來4年那念在過去的情分上總統就給他特赦啊 我也沒有意見啊但是在沒有特赦的情況之下為什麼可以容許一個"},{"start":9933.391,"end":9940.236,"text":"這個保外就醫長達10年的這個受刑人貪污犯：可以參加各式各樣的活動慶典說不過去了大法官他這個做了死刑合憲的有條件合憲設了那麼多的門檻這已經引起了這個民情的重憤我相信陳水扁的事情同樣也是"},{"start":9957.714,"end":9970.197,"text":"你知道網絡上面怎麼講嗎10月10號是我們的國慶日沒有錯全部的人都很開心都要慶祝這個國慶日但同時也是司法的這個司法支持日啊很難想像這樣的一個這麼明顯的一個受刑人貪污犯竟然可以後面做的事司法院院長還有法務部部長情何以堪"},{"start":9988.578,"end":10013.351,"text":"好我本來還有準備另外一題不過沒關係我就等到下一次我希望法務部還有矯正署你們可以呢將這個保外就醫的受刑人就是如同你們是表格上面所寫的再多增加幾個類這個這個項目他保外就醫的每平均大家的時間是多少然後多少的時間之內就會往生"},{"start":10015.01,"end":10035.016,"text":"對很多的數據資料都要公開要讓民眾瞭解你們到底做了些什麼每一次他的核准為什麼他可以核准他都可以在外面活動這些資訊難道不應該公開嗎麻煩你們一個月之內給我一份報告好謝謝好那麼請部長會後提供好謝謝我們歐委員謝謝部長謝謝署長接下來請紅委員孟凱諮詢"},{"start":10046.728,"end":10067.753,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請部長有請正部長剛剛是角政署署長是不是一起好不好周署長來我本來沒有打算要問這題啦但是因為剛剛翁小連委員這樣子詢問那署長特別回復說也有建議說這個受刑人陳水扁說不要出席這個國慶大典是不是"},{"start":10068.834,"end":10070.617,"text":"陳水扁受刑人每天主持節目"},{"start":10082.028,"end":10107.833,"text":"我之前在司法法制委員會的時候我就已經有質詢過了那我甚至那個時候我講是說我們連民進黨籍的立法委員高雄、台南想要拚2026市長的也全部都輪番上陣去上他的一個政論節目去上他的專訪所以他從他四步不受訪變成是他現在主動訪問別人了有沒有 台中監獄這邊有沒有曾經提過說要求他不能做這樣的行為"},{"start":10108.633,"end":10129.246,"text":"報告委員 這個部分台中建議都有掌握陳薛扁有事先報告 要邀請哪位所以他事先報告就可以通過這跟事部跟之前事部的關係是完全背道而馳你當時的事部有沒有一組的一個佐證"},{"start":10130.026,"end":10130.647,"text":"所以你現在收證的結果怎麼樣?"},{"start":10151.085,"end":10165.765,"text":"現在就是讓他每一個要選舉的人都上他的專訪然後暢所欲言然後網路上都可以看到這是醫學奇蹟了已經台灣司法的奇蹟醫學的奇蹟"},{"start":10168.41,"end":10168.99,"text":"法務部很重要"},{"start":10198.486,"end":10223.188,"text":"法務部很重要那其中本席有看到上一次我也提到就是說針對這個毒品氾濫的部分尤其是毒價也造成我們新北的這個所長的一個不幸往生的狀況那其中我們現在看到是說喪失毒品確實已經有在8月份的時候先列為三級毒品了那但是我們要問兩個部分一個"},{"start":10224.369,"end":10247.865,"text":"新興毒品掌握的狀況到底我們有沒有超前部署因為這個過去這個所謂的上司毒品啊已經快一年的時間沒有去做一個納管所以說現在才緊急八月份便列為三級毒品那從列毒品拖了一年大家講是說這是不是有帶多一個狀況那另外"},{"start":10249.284,"end":10251.907,"text":"這麼容易取得的這樣新興毒品僅列3級你覺得夠嗎?"},{"start":10255.247,"end":10255.887,"text":"請要說明好不好"},{"start":10286.468,"end":10303.536,"text":"關於新興毒品,其實法務部有一套監測機制,它設在一個檢測平台,它是向未來監測,所以如果有一些新興毒品還沒有列入我們毒品來管制的話,我們透過監測機制達到一定程度的話,就會回到我們的毒品審議委會"},{"start":10304.036,"end":10322.073,"text":"本席有看到而過去本席也知道有這樣的一個機制但現在我想請教全世界每年都會有這個所謂的毒品報告聯合國出的目前2024年聯合國所出全世界的毒品有多少跟委員報告這個NPS就是全世界的毒品報告事實上也是我們的監測機制的範圍"},{"start":10323.815,"end":10324.936,"text":"司法及法制委員會議"},{"start":10342.506,"end":10367.502,"text":"跟委員報告最新列的我們都列入了除非他是在上次毒品委會之後又再重新列的要不然目前為止新新的我們都把它列了來回來部長部長本期為什麼會提到這樣子因為我特別也去查了我們法務部的相關的新聞在2020年的時候有針對新新毒品的部分一口氣認列了299項毒品達到我們現在管制的638項毒品那"},{"start":10371.545,"end":10388.752,"text":"目前有可能因為這是2020年的資料所以有可能2020到現在2024有陸續增加但當時我們的資料查到是臺灣總共列管了600多項的一個毒品可是全世界的這個聯合國的這個報告他其實是高達1000將近200項"},{"start":10391.093,"end":10414.388,"text":"所以換言之還是一半當然不是說因為有一些毒品它有可能是只有在某些國家流行或氾濫可是我現在提醒的就是說因為這個上濕毒品的狀態就是一樣嘛就之前我們沒有把它列管進去而造成說它可能有部分的一個空窗期那當然我們已經在8月的時候已經把它列為三級毒品了可是本席要講的是"},{"start":10415.588,"end":10442.457,"text":"這樣子的一個機制有沒有能夠蓋精進或調整的空間尤其我們看到之前的新聞報導是有講是說法醫研究院研究所購買標準品的預算只有區區300萬我不知道現在有沒有增加那如果說只是幾百萬如果說只是因為研究所沒有錢沒有多餘的預算去購買毒品導致於說我們沒有對照組實驗組比較組而造成我們沒有辦法列管的話"},{"start":10444.418,"end":10447.081,"text":"幾百萬的預算部分是不是應該要來做加強?"},{"start":10449.065,"end":10455.489,"text":"邀請蔡易瑜委員、蔡易瑜、蔡易瑜委員不在邀請羅明才委員、羅明才、羅明才不在邀請林思明委員、林思明、林思明委員不在邀請鄭振前委員、鄭振前、鄭振前委員不在"},{"start":10477.122,"end":10502.33,"text":"有請楊瓊英委員,楊瓊英委員不在有請陳冠廷委員,陳冠廷委員不在有請傅坤祺委員,傅坤祺委員不在有請賴世寶委員,賴世寶委員不在所有登記發言委員均已發言完畢,詢答結束委員諮詢時,要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本會"},{"start":10505.578,"end":10514.19,"text":"委員謝榮介所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報並請相關機關以書面答覆本次會議進行到此結束現在散會謝謝大家"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}