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謝謝主席 我請部長請部長我們袁 袁 袁 袁 袁署長袁署長我今天三個問題請教你第一個 來這是我們的離島可能很多人不知道我們全台灣的離島的垃圾全部都運到台灣本島來處理"},{"start":40.205,"end":57.7,"text":"包括屏東的小琉球、綠島、蘭嶼包括連澎湖、金門、農莊、上場等等對不對對啦好來我先疊一下齁這個把它放大可以嗎我都放大吧那個結算齁"},{"start":73.311,"end":74.291,"text":"我們用小琉球為例它有兩個處理垃圾的委外案第一個就是垃圾轉運站營運管理這個議案"},{"start":100.845,"end":106.73,"text":"議案就是一般廢棄物轉運期監督我想所有的理事長都會這樣做啦這兩個案子 保證你看看這是34億的"},{"start":115.809,"end":135.659,"text":"你嚇死人了,你嚇到乎聾了啦不可能那麼多啦千萬百萬千萬億十億三百四十二萬三百四十二萬啦?不可能啦,抱歉啊你的招標案,你看看招標案"},{"start":139.547,"end":154.594,"text":"跟委員報告,這顯然是錯誤,屏東環保局可能在打的時候打錯我們同仁也有通知他,他現在應該是342萬,已經請他改正了你的招標是4百69萬,人家都有在看,你也這樣輪步一段,被人家笑死了另外一間,還有多少?"},{"start":172.387,"end":197.899,"text":"發委員 剛才所指的兩個案子齁 它其實是同一筆同一個...一個...所以是兩個案子還是一個案子?它是...它是...它分兩個計畫 但是是同一個案 這樣子同一個案子 兩個計畫?是所以兩個報告是一樣?欸 它...它會分別齁 它有一個轉運計畫嘛 一個管理計畫兩個還是..."},{"start":204.744,"end":210.426,"text":"對兩個的報告是一樣我看到所以這個我們在留學後我們就去實際考察我們看那個垃圾"},{"start":214.912,"end":243.899,"text":"打包之後弄到船然後就到鹽埔漁港然後車子就載出來嘛是是有的車子是就直接載車子就從小琉球然後那個車子就直接開到接駁船上面然後船就拉著走然後到東港到新衍這邊就直接開出去了是這樣嘛是是所以這是把他聽成一個慣例一個操作這樣喔"},{"start":247.883,"end":251.808,"text":"市長他們一直要求多一點的資源,你覺得怎麼樣?"},{"start":254.759,"end":273.461,"text":"報告委員小琉球的要求我們會再考慮檢討不過目前小琉球的運輸費用是全國最高他甚至比金門運回來還要貴這個部分可能還要檢討一下我們看他的實際的需求"},{"start":275.063,"end":294.698,"text":"因為他的遊客真的是非常多民宿現在已經400多家了遊客很多,布朗也都去過所以這個督導是你們撥錢給屏東縣環保局,環保局去執行所以這個錢100%都是你們給的"},{"start":301.443,"end":318.873,"text":"好那這個要加強那第二個我們防管署我們在第18項第18款第4項第18款第5項黨團的這一些凍結案我就統一起來問剛剛很多委員問了很多"},{"start":322.535,"end":326.6,"text":"在垃圾不漏地的這一項到登革熱颱風現在又來了你有什麼想法跟做法"},{"start":334.731,"end":351.983,"text":"再來一些工廠的VOC等等這些有沒有什麼想法是 向委員報告其實在我們的登革熱防制上面我們在北中南從去年開始每一年分為北中南"},{"start":352.583,"end":371.522,"text":"各實施實兵演練那這些實兵演練就是大家在別的縣市如果機具由我們調度到現場不管是災害或者是這個登革熱等等之類的那這種高師演練跟現場演練北中南山區各有責任區我們做演練"},{"start":372.242,"end":400.597,"text":"那在工廠的VOC上面我們是以科技執法那在我們的年度預算裡面也有顯示在上面希望透過遠端的監控方式來做處理這個是一個科技執法的一個那所以你跟各縣市的環保局都有在監控這些瓶瓶罐罐啊颱風過後像這樣這兩天雨這樣下那些清除都有在監控嗎"},{"start":401.397,"end":426.977,"text":"是 這一個它清除完畢會跟我們回報它的數量當然我們也是有一個系統來如果哪一個縣市它有需要資源的話我們會去調度其他的資源或其他縣市來做資源清除所以如果他們做得好有評比 有獎勵 有沒有有 我們在年度的績效評比制度裡面是有這一項的"},{"start":428.883,"end":434.625,"text":"第三個問題就是我要問部長你剛剛一直在講的環境跟AI的監控你現在做的是有做到哪一些AI的"},{"start":444.582,"end":467.122,"text":"AI第一個是說我們那個對於空瓶的預測例如說現在PM2.5多少像我自己我是敏感體質啊我PM2.5我就設定20以上就會push給我啊那個呢就經過AI去算未來會到20例如說他一直提升他就會主動去推估未來多少那我就手機就會收到啊這個就保障每個人的健康"},{"start":467.793,"end":494.775,"text":"那各縣市的這些data如果是有超過預警值你們的署長啊你們的高階的人會顯示你的手機會顯示出來嗎有有我舉例例如說要是發生火災啊火災往哪裡飄那個煙往哪裡飄我們大概即時都會得到回報消防署會給我們那我們也有自己的所以這個都會提醒來預警做超前的部署"},{"start":494.975,"end":512.492,"text":"有危險值的通報對不對有有有我們自己內部都有可以看得到你看你的手機就會顯示出來對三更半夜也都有也都有對這樣的話那你剛剛另外一個講說家庭裡面也會產生PM2.5你是在說什麼"},{"start":515.377,"end":532.182,"text":"沒有啦,我們開一個GAS,開豬柴,一直砰,那個就是等於是燒天然氣嘛,其實那個時候PM2.5就會跳起來,我們有算過大概會到三四十啦,為客啦,因為差不多家裡如果你很乾淨的話,大概都是十以下,"},{"start":532.722,"end":545.15,"text":"我們家裡用的那個液態那個是滋味瓦斯一桶一桶那個是中國石油公司煉油的時候所產生的副產品那我們剛剛一直在講那瓦斯船"},{"start":549.696,"end":577.738,"text":"再來要給台灣發電用的那個是液態天然氣那個兩個來源是不同的但是它原理是類似的當然但是這是石油在蒸餾的時候在分類的時候從傘層的那一個瓦斯應該講瓦斯它裡面應該是比液態天然氣還多樣化裡面的化學物質可能會更多"},{"start":578.418,"end":599.968,"text":"我們家裡面的其實也不少我們現在會啟動研究調查啦就是說因為像其實有人說要家裡要換電磁爐會比較好啦但是也有一些國外研究說沒差是你要吃什麼例如說國外有研究肩培根PM2.5可以到2000啦所以這個其實我們一直很想要用健康的觀點來保障每個國人的健康"},{"start":601.388,"end":624.825,"text":"就是說炸豬排啊那個其實PM2.5的都在美國你看到很多用電爐啦他們都220的230齁他們都用電爐很少像我們用炸的用炸的那我們的瓦斯就是桶裝的瓦斯或天然瓦斯自來瓦斯我在想裡面因為是煉油的過程所產生的"},{"start":626.086,"end":640.832,"text":"附加物它裡面可能會比液態天然氣還多樣化化學成分會更多有沒有研究過這個包委員這個部分國內的調查我有問我同仁目前過去調查的很少很少"},{"start":641.152,"end":652.879,"text":"像我們洗熱水澡也是用瓦斯其實也會產生出來其實生活裡面的這個就是我們我們要調查的所以這個你要往這個方面研究就是說你這台車輸了你現在燒出來的東西燒不完整不完全燃燒"},{"start":657.982,"end":678.044,"text":"為什麼冬天關個窗戶洗個熱水澡就會熄人那都是這樣是不是有其他的化學物質那是一氧化碳中毒當然你說一氧化碳但是我覺得它稍微有很多稍微不完整的那些稍微不完全的那些化學物質搞不好那裡面有一二十種成分"},{"start":679.085,"end":706.337,"text":"所以這個環保署你要去研究這個啦是是 我現在我們今年會有一個重點就是健康啦 健康的市長 你可能要去做一些研究啦 好不好好 那最後一個就是我們屏東剛才 王一民講得很大聲齁這些煤 這些發電廠一直漂漂漂齁我一直從小到現在那個臨沿石化工業區齁我對它真的是很 很"},{"start":707.777,"end":710.318,"text":"就給你小的啦,真的迷茫茫,天空那裡,星農那裡,這麼多肺部的問題啦我跟那邊是絕對的關係啦,那你新達大林飄過來的那屏東本身,你說你用AI在監控,那些農業機械什麼"},{"start":730.402,"end":752.242,"text":"有的時候如果用柴油燒很多的民眾例如說操作的農民如果用柴油燒積聚的話那個對身體還是不好啦所以這個其實我們以後也要來注意啦我有發現到這一塊所以我們一起來研究看看好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":602,"blocks":[["蘇委員清泉：（10時18分）好，謝謝主席。請部長及顏署長。"],["主席：請部長及顏署長。"],["彭部長啓明：委員早。"],["蘇委員清泉：我今天有3個問題要請教你，第一個是有關於我們離島垃圾的問題，可能很多人不知道我們全臺灣離島的垃圾全部都運回臺灣本島來處理，包括屏東的小琉球、綠島、蘭嶼，連澎湖、金門都送回來臺灣，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["蘇委員清泉：對啦！以小琉球為例，它有兩個處理垃圾的委外案，第一個叫做垃圾轉運站營運管理，另外一案就是一般廢棄物轉運及監督，我想所有的離島都差不多這樣做，這兩個案子，部長你看看，這是34億！你嚇死人！這是怎麼搞的。"],["彭部長啓明：應該是打錯了，不可能那麼多啦！"],["蘇委員清泉：百萬、千萬、億、十億，34億。"],["彭部長啓明：342萬啦！打錯啦！不好意思。"],["蘇委員清泉：你的招標案……"],["彭部長啓明：屏東環保局……"],["顏署長旭明：跟委員報告，這個顯然是錯誤，屏東環保局可能在打的時候打錯，我們同仁也有通知他。應該是342萬，已經請他改正。"],["蘇委員清泉：你的招標案是469萬，大家都是有在看的，你們不要這樣亂搞一通，會讓人笑死。另外一件是多少？"],["顏署長旭明：報告委員，剛才所指的兩個案子其實是同一筆，同一個計畫……"],["蘇委員清泉：這是兩個案子還是一個案子？"],["顏署長旭明：它分兩個計畫，但是是同一個案子。"],["蘇委員清泉：同一個案子兩個計畫？所以兩個報告是一樣的？"],["顏署長旭明：分別有一個轉運計畫和一個管理計畫。"],["蘇委員清泉：對，我看到了兩個的報告是一樣的。我們在小琉球實地考察時，看到垃圾打包弄上船運到鹽埔漁港之後，就被車子載出來了。有的車子從小琉球直接載，然後開到接駁船上面被船拉著走，到東港、新園後就直接開出去了，是這樣嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以這是把它拆成一個慣例、一個操作是嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：小琉球一直要求要多一點的資源，你覺得怎麼樣？"],["顏署長旭明：報告委員，小琉球的要求我們會再考慮檢討，不過目前小琉球的運輸費用是全國最高，甚至比金門運回來還要貴，這個部分可能還要檢討一下，我們會看它的實際需求。"],["蘇委員清泉：因為它的遊客真的是非常多，民宿現在已經四百多家了，部長也都去過。所以這個督導……是你們撥錢給屏東縣環保局，環保局去執行，所以這個錢100%都是你們給的，100%都是？"],["彭部長啓明：是的。"],["蘇委員清泉：好，那這個要加強。第二個，環管署在第18款第4項、第18款第5項的這一些黨團凍結案，我一起來問，剛剛很多委員也問了很多。在垃圾不落地這一項到登革熱，颱風現在又來了，你有什麼想法和做法？再來還有一些關於工廠的VOC等等，有沒有什麼想法？"],["顏署長旭明：是，向委員報告。其實我們在登革熱防治上面，從去年開始在北、中、南，每1年各實施實兵演練，這些實兵演練就是不管是災害或者是登革熱等等之類的，大家在別的縣市機具會由我們調度到現場，這種高司演練跟現場演練，北、中、南三區各有責任區做演練。在工廠的VOC上面我們以科技執法，這也有顯示在年度預算裡面，希望透過遠端的監控方式來處理，這個是我們科技執法的新做法。"],["蘇委員清泉：你跟各縣市的環保局都有在監控這些瓶瓶罐罐，或是颱風過後像這兩天雨這樣下，都有在監控那些清除情形嗎？"],["顏署長旭明：是，他們清除完畢會跟我們回報數量，當然我們也有一個系統來……如果哪一個縣市有需要支援的話，會調度其他的資源或其他縣市來支援清除。"],["蘇委員清泉：如果他們做得好，有評比、有獎勵？有沒有？"],["顏署長旭明：有，在年度的績效評比制度裡面有這一項。"],["蘇委員清泉：好。第3個問題我要問部長，你剛剛一直在講的環境跟AI的監控，現在做的事有哪一些是關於AI的？"],["彭部長啓明：關於AI，第一個是對於空品的預測，例如現在PM2.5是多少？像我自己是敏感體質，PM2.5就設定20以上會push給我，那個就是經過AI去算未來會到20，如果一直提升，它就會主動推估未來將達多少，我的手機就會收到，這個部分能保障每個人的健康。"],["蘇委員清泉：各縣市的data如果有超過預警值，你們的署長及高階人員的手機會顯示出來嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：有，例如發生火災時煙要往哪裡飄？我們大概都會即時得到回報，消防署會給我們，我們也有自己的，所以都會提醒預警以做超前的部署。"],["蘇委員清泉：有危險值的通報，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：有，我們內部都有，可以看得到。"],["蘇委員清泉：你看手機就會顯示出來？三更半夜也都有？"],["彭部長啓明：對，也都有。"],["蘇委員清泉：這樣的話，那你剛剛說家庭裡面也會產生PM2.5是在講什麼？"],["彭部長啓明：沒有啦，普通來講，我們開個gas煮菜，一啟動瓦斯點火等於是燒天然氣，其實那個時候PM2.5就會跳起來，我們有算過大概會到三、四十微克，家裡如果很乾淨的話大概差不多都是10以下。"],["蘇委員清泉：家裡用的是自然瓦斯……"],["彭部長啓明：LNG。"],["蘇委員清泉：一桶一桶的是中國石油公司煉油時所產生的副產品，你剛剛一直在講那個瓦斯船載來要給臺灣發電用的是液態天然氣，兩個的來源是不同的。"],["彭部長啓明：但是它的原理是類似的。"],["蘇委員清泉：當然，但這是石油在蒸餾、分裂的時候所產生的瓦斯，它裡面應該比液態天然氣還多樣化，裡面的化學物質可能會更多。"],["彭部長啓明：家裡面的其實也不少，我們現在會啟動研究調查，因為像有人說家裡要換電磁爐會比較好，但是也有一些國外研究是說沒影響，是在於你要吃什麼，例如國外有研究煎培根PM2.5可以到2000，其實我們一直很想要用健康的觀點來保障每個國人的健康，就如炸豬排其實PM2.5也會衝高……"],["蘇委員清泉：在美國很多都用電爐，他們都是220、230，他們都用電爐，佷少像我們用炸的。我們的瓦斯就是桶裝的瓦斯或天然、自然瓦斯，我在想因為是煉油的過程所產生的附加物，它裡面可能可能會比液態天然氣還多樣化，化學成分會更多，有沒有研究過這部分？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，這個部分我有問過同仁，國內過去的調查很少……"],["蘇委員清泉：很少。"],["彭部長啓明：像我們洗熱水澡用的gas其實也會產生出來，有關生活裡面的部分就是我們未來要調查的重點。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以你要往這個方面去研究，就是關於使用燃燒瓦斯造成燃燒不完全。為什麼冬天關個窗戶洗個熱水澡也會死人？這都是這樣來的，是不是有其他的化學物質？"],["彭部長啓明：沒有，那是一氧化碳中毒。"],["蘇委員清泉：你說那是一氧化碳中毒，但是我認為是有很多燃燒不完全的化學物質，搞不好裡面有一、二十種成分，這個部分環保署要去研究。"],["彭部長啓明：是。我們今年會有一個重點，就是健康……"],["蘇委員清泉：司長，你們可能要去做一下研究，好不好？好，最後一個就是我們屏東，剛才王育敏講了一大堆，這些煤、這些發電廠的污染一直飄、飄、飄，我從小到現在，林園石化工業區，我對它真的是很厭惡，那個真的是「糜糜卯卯」，東港那邊跟新園那邊有這麼多肺部有問題的人，我看跟那邊是絕對的關係啦，興達、大林飄過來的。關於屏東本身，你說你用AI在監控，那些農業機械，什麼割稻機、什麼等等，那些的污染源應該很少吧？"],["彭部長啓明：有的時候如果是用柴油燒，例如操作的農民如果用柴油燒機具的話，那個對身體還是不好，所以這個部分，其實我們以後也要來注意。"],["蘇委員清泉：對，我有發現到這一塊，所以我們一起來研究看看，看它怎麼防範。"],["彭部長啓明：好。"],["蘇委員清泉：好，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝蘇召委的詢答。","我記得早上介紹王委員的時候，我說謝謝王委員，謝謝王委員是因為王委員代表臺灣到WHA為臺灣發聲，各位再鼓掌一下。抱歉！我剛才漏掉了，另外一個王委員也是，抱歉、抱歉！","現在休息10分鐘。","休息（10時31分）","繼續開會（10時42分）"],["主席：休息時間到，請各位回座。","接下來請王正旭委員來做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":264,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-13","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","蘇清泉","王正旭","張啓楷","黃秀芳","林淑芬","陳瑩","葉元之","楊曜","廖偉翔","涂權吉"],"page_start":183,"meetingDate":["2025-05-26"],"gazette_id":"1145302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145302_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理114年度中央政府總預算決議有關環境部主管預算凍結報告案142案(含報告事項134案及討論\n事項8案)","agenda_id":"1145302_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}