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各位委員 有請部長喂吼 部長好吼"},{"start":28.59,"end":54.258,"text":"今天這個審查這個我們召委還有郭委員所提的農民退休儲金條例第七條的一個修正要特別把這個主管機關要提繳的部分提高為1.5倍改為1.5倍本來是相同的改為1.5倍農業部的這個報告裡面特別提到"},{"start":55.316,"end":61.398,"text":"農民領取老農津貼籍農退儲金合計約38,479元這是每月勞工領取勞保老年給付加上勞工退休金合計約每個月33,095元"},{"start":79.591,"end":106.171,"text":"你們做這樣的一個比較然後特別提到這個如果修正為這個1.5的話會再提高到45431影響不同職業間的橫貧性而事實上這個如果每一次做一個這個調整然後就要做比較的話那永遠就不能比"},{"start":107.365,"end":135.29,"text":"農業就不能調啦所以是有時候是我們這邊調然後去帶動其他的比如說帶動勞工的調整都是有這個需要性何況勞工基本上勞工基本上他是這個每隔月每隔月領薪水啦平常的時候上班的還沒有退休的時候"},{"start":137.097,"end":161.348,"text":"跟農民不一樣,農民是看天吃飯很重要的是看天吃飯,不只是看天啊還要看什麼還要看這個消費現在還要看什麼,誰要看美國對不對川普的經濟川普的關稅所以這個"},{"start":162.472,"end":187.585,"text":"因素也很多啦因素也很多所以這個部分這個再請這個農業部好好的評估然後另外這裡面很重要的這個你們的報告裡面第三點提到經分析農民未參加農退儲金之原因與農民之儲息意願儲息能力有關這個就是平常他的收入有關係啦"},{"start":189.45,"end":212.953,"text":"跟他平常跟我剛剛講的有關係所以這個部分是一個他不確定的收入也不像勞工每個月領不像公務連每個月領他不是所以他因素很多所以就會產生這樣的一個考量所以農業部是不是在好好的評估在支持"},{"start":213.813,"end":227.842,"text":"我第一個跟委員報告我們農業部的立場絕對沒有否定包括協議院委員或國務委員等委員所提的提案那我剛才說的就是我們一開始會做先做客觀的分析那因為以"},{"start":229.703,"end":255.363,"text":"農業部來講當然越高對農民越有利可是相對的當政策執行下去的時候也會考慮到跟其他的類似的這樣子一個方的條例或辦法的時候的橫平性所以我們這邊提到的所以我們會再做一些評估同時是不是能夠有一些也達到委員的期待然後有更好的方式也能夠增加更多的"},{"start":256.544,"end":284.191,"text":"農民來參加這個除菌我想這是我們共同的目的啦我們一定會很仔細的去做更細部的一個分析這個部分一定不能光用數字去衡量去比較啦必須考量我剛剛講的這些很多的因素所以這個部分也請農業部這邊考量好另外就是這個我一再提的"},{"start":285.862,"end":308.541,"text":"這是你們3月26號的報告施行農民退休儲金制度提繳收益人數累計約10.9萬人覆蓋率約33.7%所以光我們從這個跟勞工的就不一樣勞工的很高幾乎是百分之百因為它強制的嘛"},{"start":309.541,"end":336.084,"text":"所以這個 老公只有16而已喔志願提交才16個而已喔他們只有16嗎 16我們農業參加退休出家對 那個可能是有包含的那個那個不是 那個叫什麼沒有 那個是雇主提領6%的這個部分我們算過了 這個是16%所以農民本身的一個宣導我們是有加強宣導的效果啦 對好 我們看這個"},{"start":339.106,"end":344.199,"text":"這是今天的報告裡面裡面提到這個"},{"start":348.089,"end":372.104,"text":"統計114年3月底曾經參加農退儲金受惠人數合計約11萬人含移領這個部分佔未滿65歲且經系統比對符合資格者比例約為49%這個也提高了是吧是這是很好的一個成效好我們看這個"},{"start":374.124,"end":377.326,"text":"我還是要再為原住民的農民來記這個是之前的一個數字這個是112年10月31號的數字"},{"start":392.165,"end":403.859,"text":"原住民農民提繳農退儲軍的只有佔百分之五點七真的是這個比例很高我跟委員更新一下這個數據您這邊的數據是去年的數據嗎有這邊有你們這個新的"},{"start":412.723,"end":420.711,"text":"新的數據現在還有更新的現在是866現在更新的是972到3月27號的是866現在已到上個禮拜是972972我們很努力的在做宣導所以這個部分這個宣導之外你們就是要去了解"},{"start":438.123,"end":450.671,"text":"原因啊原因是不是他就是刚才你的报告里面提的搅不起所以这个部分所以在这样的一个情况之下是不是可以思考"},{"start":452.483,"end":478.542,"text":"這個制度的調整制度的調整就原住民的部分也許就有一個制度的調整希望他們能夠講而起或怎麼樣去做鼓勵所以這個部分所以這個是一個你們在宣導的時候也了解一下原因是什麼好不好會 我們每次宣訪的時候都會收集相關的意見因為在這樣的一個比例如果從這個"},{"start":484.29,"end":500.729,"text":"783這是112年的10月31號的數字經過你們的努力之後到3月今年的3月27是866沒有增加多少 不到100嘛增加的然後你現在是900多嘛 900幾"},{"start":503.411,"end":527.48,"text":"現在是972然後現在的農保的人數也降低了大概是11995人所以那個比例有增加那是因為那個農民的人數我們參加的人數也增加了然後總農保的人數有稍微下降所以它是浮動的啦那我跟委員報告"},{"start":528.82,"end":551.202,"text":"整體看起來是百分之八好像比平均的還低但是有一些縣市幾乎都是零啦這個部分就是我們宣傳的重點那有一些縣市我想像嘉義的其實嘉義的其實有達到百分之五十然後剩下的有達到像台南的有達到百分之三十五桃園的有達到百分之二十五"},{"start":551.903,"end":567.331,"text":"但是因為有零的關係他會把整體的平均拉下來那這些資訊都是我們未來宣導的一個重點特別是針對比較比例比較低的部分好這個部分這個新的數據再提供給我好謝謝好謝謝現在請楊瓊英委員做詢答"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":409,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（10時15分）主席、各位委員，有請部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長好。針對今天的審查，我們召委，還有郭委員所提的農民退休儲金條例第七條的修正，要特別把主管機關要提繳的部分提高為1.5倍，本來是相同金額，要修改為1.5倍。農業部的報告裡面特別提到農民領取「老農津貼」及「農退儲金」，合計每個月為3萬8,479元，勞工領取勞保「老年給付」加上「勞工退休金」合計每個月為3萬3,095元，你們做這樣的比較，特別提到如果修正為1.5倍的話，每月會再提高到4萬5,431元，恐影響不同職業間的衡平性。事實上，如果每一次做一個調整，然後再這樣做比較的話，永遠就不能比了、永遠就不能調了啊！","所以有時候是我們這邊調，然後去帶動其他的，譬如帶動勞工部分的調整，都是有這個需要性；更何況勞工基本上是每個月在領薪水啦！平常還在上班還沒有到退休的時候，跟農民不一樣啊！因為農民是看天吃飯，很重要的是看天吃飯，不只是看天，還要看什麼？還要看消費，對不對？現在還要看什麼，要看美國，對不對？川普的經濟、川普的關稅，所以這個因素也很多啦！這個部分再請農業部好好的評估。","另外，很重要的在這份報告裡面的第三點提到，經分析農民未參加農退儲金之原因與農民之「儲蓄意願」及「儲蓄能力」有關，這個就是與他平常的收入有關係啦！這跟我剛剛講的有關係，這個是他不確定的收入，不像勞工每個月領，也不像公務員每個月領，他不是啊！也因為他的因素很多，所以就會產生這樣的一個考量，請農業部是不是再好好的評估並支持？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，我們農業部的立場絕對沒有否定包括謝衣鳯委員或郭國文委員等委員所提的提案，我剛才提到的就是我們一開始會先做客觀的分析，以農業部來講，當然越高對農民越有利，可是相對的，當政策執行下去的時候，也會考慮到跟其他類似這樣的條例或辦法的衡平性啦！所以我們再做一些評估，同時是不是也能夠達到委員的期待？然後有更好的方式，能夠增加更多的農民來參加這個儲金，我想這是我們共同的目的啦！我們一定會很仔細的去做更細部的分析。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：這個部分一定不能光用數字去衡量及去比較啦！必須考量我剛剛講的這些很多的因素，所以這個部分也請農業部能夠考量。另外，我一再提的，這是擷取你們3月26日報告裡的內容，為施行農民退休儲金制度提繳受益人數累計約10.9萬人、覆蓋率約33.7%，所以我們光從這個部分跟勞工的就不一樣了，勞工的很高，幾乎是百分之百，因為它是強制的嘛！所以這個部分……"],["陳部長駿季：勞工自願提繳只有16%而已喔！"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：他們只有16%嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：對，16%。比我們農業參加退休儲金……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對，可能是有包含那個……叫什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，那個是雇主提繳6%的，這個部分我們計算過大概是16%，所以農民本身的宣導，我們是有比較好的。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：有加強宣導的效果啦！"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好。再來，我們看今天的報告裡面提到，經統計114年3月底，曾經參加農退儲金受惠人數合計約11萬人，含已領農退儲金的部分，占未滿65歲且經系統比對符合資格者比例約為49%，這個也提高了，是嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：這是很好的一個成效。再來，我們看這個統計表，我還是要再為原住民的農民來發聲，這個是之前112年10月31日的數字，原住民農民提繳農退儲金的只有占5.7%，這個比例很高啊！"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員更新一下這個數據，您這邊的數據是去年的數據……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：這邊有，你們新的數據是到113年3月27日。"],["陳部長駿季：現在還有更新的數據，之前提繳人數是866人，現在更新的是972人。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：到113年3月27日的是866人，現在是九百多？。"],["陳部長駿季：對，截至到上個禮拜是972人。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：972人。"],["陳部長駿季：我們很努力的在做宣導。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：所以這個部分在宣導之外，你們要去了解原因啦！原因是不是就是剛才你們的報告裡面提到「繳不起」的部分，所以在這樣情況下，是不是可以思考這個制度的調整？就原住民的部分，也許能有一個制度的調整，希望他們能夠繳得起，或是怎麼樣去鼓勵他們？所以你們在宣導的時候也了解一下原因是什麼，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：會，我們每次宣導的時候，都會蒐集相關的意見。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：因為在這樣的一個比例，如果從112年10月31日的統計數字是783人，經過你們的努力之後，到今年3月27日是866人，也沒有增加多少，增加不到100人嘛！然後現在是九百多少？"],["陳部長駿季：972人。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：972人。"],["陳部長駿季：現在農保的人數也降低了，大概是1萬1,995人。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：所以那個比例有增加，是因為農民的人數。"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我們參加的人數也增加了，而總農保的人數有稍微下降，所以它是浮動的啦！跟委員報告，整體看起來是8%，好像比平均的還低。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對。"],["陳部長駿季：但是有一些縣市幾乎都是零啦！這個部分就是我們要宣傳的重點，有一些縣市像嘉義，其實嘉義的有達到50%，其他還有像臺南的達到35%，桃園的有達到25%，也因為有零的關係，它會把整體的平均數據拉下來，這些資訊都是我們未來宣導的一個重點，特別是針對比例比較低的部分。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：這部分新的數據再提供給我，謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["主席：謝謝。","請楊瓊瓔委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-15","speakers":["謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","林岱樺","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","郭國文","陳亭妃","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","林俊憲","呂玉玲"],"page_start":195,"meetingDate":["2025-05-28"],"gazette_id":"1145401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145401_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、本院委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案；二、本院\n委員郭國文等17人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1145401_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}