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我們請主委好 請議員會林主委主委好主委好主委我想很多委員都有問到這個三峽78歲這個30的重大車禍那你們要調查一年喔要這麼久嗎"},{"start":29.389,"end":33.733,"text":"所以我是覺得運安會這樣子的態度我是覺得比較不積極啦"},{"start":57.897,"end":75.954,"text":"該有的程序當然我們會認為要做沒有錯該做的科學監聽當然我們也沒有叫你們要少啊但是這個在一般的民眾看起來這些事情要一年你們應該可以加快速度吧"},{"start":77.654,"end":101.841,"text":"事實上我們內部我有召開一個會議跟他們講說可不可以再修懲再縮短就跟為所關切一樣事實上我們在明年的一二月的草案就應該要出來了是啊但是我們還要經過委員會的程序我是這樣建議啦我是覺得你們運安會的執掌你看喔發覺事故根本原因及潛在風險並提出改善建議是"},{"start":103.728,"end":130.508,"text":"運營會其實不是只是事故的時候出現嘛運營會在平常的時候怎麼出現用什麼角色出現就是你針對重大事故或者是針對國內的你們以前遇過的那現在你要去找出事故的根本跟潛在的風險那你們認為應該要怎麼樣才能夠讓運輸安全可以做得更好嗎"},{"start":132.196,"end":158.605,"text":"就像委員平常的關切的用AI我們現在現在有一些通報案子進來通報不一定要立案但是通報進來的時候我們都會開始用比較科學化的去統計說這個譬如說蓄積事件台鐵那我們講說這個好像有那個系統化的風險的問題的時候我們就會主動跟台鐵講對啊 所以你們有一些譬如說"},{"start":159.963,"end":188.084,"text":"你們的具體建議對國家的運輸安全有重大影響的可不可以讓你整理一些給我看沒有問題你比如說普悠瑪比如說太魯閣這個事故這麼嚴重這麼多年了那有沒有哪一項哪幾項是因為你們運營會的建議然後有具體的改善或者是說後面你們建議的還沒有改善你們有沒有追蹤"},{"start":189.793,"end":207.845,"text":"就是我希望他改善的但是他現在還沒改善我是覺得我一直覺得運安會給我的感覺就是我想看的那個積極性的主動性的那個效果但是不容易看到所以我希望說運安會其實可以調整比如說好我們針對"},{"start":214.691,"end":243.15,"text":"這一次的78歲的長者啦 事實上我們運輸安全不是針對年齡高低嘛 對不對我們運輸安全是針對安全駕駛嘛那你如何能夠有安全駕駛的空間 現在交通部也在研議嘛那運安會有沒有功能有沒有角色 有沒有建議以上是我自己我們秘書去查的啦 讓你當參考啦"},{"start":244.215,"end":270.873,"text":"就是說換照的制度換照的制度台灣現在是75歲以後然後呢新加坡韓國是65歲以後日本美國是70歲以後英國是年滿70歲自動失效那法國是15年體檢一次那從安全價值的角度來看"},{"start":272.352,"end":297.347,"text":"這個換照的年齡不能說只針對老人也不要讓老人誤解一個長輩發生車禍我們所有的長輩要受害不是這樣而是就是說我從安全駕駛的角度來看我應該是多久或者是幾歲或者是重大傷病有一個不一樣的安全駕駛的"},{"start":299.464,"end":321.517,"text":"觀念去針對這個換照制度做一個調整不是只是針對老人我強調一次而是強調的是安全駕駛人家90歲了你個畫面機能很好像我們看到那個市莊醫那一百零幾歲了還能夠打羽毛球對不對人家身體好"},{"start":322.54,"end":349.435,"text":"各項健康檢查都通過他要繼續開車那當然就符合標準就可以開啊所以不是年紀的問題啊那這個部分應安會可有想法連你的問題當然跟委員講的我想一樣啦我是說作為不是真正的意願我說應安會可有作為啦對我們的作為是這樣我們事實上對事務我們是"},{"start":351.896,"end":371.761,"text":"調查然後我們對這個下要嗎那如果對這個下要找出來的原因如果跟交通部的一些就剛剛講高齡然後認識安全駕駛有關係我們會跟他連結啦對我的意思就是說因為時間差不多了重點我是我一直期盼雲南會主動出擊啦事故當然是被動出擊嘛但是"},{"start":373.066,"end":386.798,"text":"掌握事故根本原因潛在風險提出改善建立這個應該是主動出擊是是是好不好是我們之後會把一些資料給委員報告好好這個部分希望雲南會可以加強好是好好謝謝謝謝謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":253,"blocks":[["許委員智傑：（10時3分）謝謝主席，我們請主委。"],["主席：請運安會林主委。"],["林主任委員信得：委員好。"],["許委員智傑：主委好。主委，我想很多委員都有問到三峽78歲駕駛造成3死的重大車禍，你們要調查一年？要這麼久嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：報告委員，麻雀雖小五臟俱全，一定的程序就一定要走，而且不是說可以……因為這種專業調查的東西一定要有科學的依據，一定要有一定的……"],["許委員智傑：對啦！我是覺得運安會這樣子的態度比較不積極，該有的程序當然我們會認為要做沒有錯，該做的科學鑑定當然我們也沒有叫你們要少，但是在一般民眾看起來，這個事情要一年？你們應該可以加快速度吧？"],["林主任委員信得：事實上我有召開一個內部的會，跟他們說可不可以再縮短？就跟委員所關切的一樣，我們在明年的1、2月草案就應該要出來了。"],["許委員智傑：是啊！"],["林主任委員信得：但是我們還要經過委員會的程序。"],["許委員智傑：我是這樣建議啦！你看你們運安會的職掌為：發掘事故根本原因及潛在風險，並提出改善建議。運安會其實不是只有在事故的時候出現，運安會在平常的時候怎麼出現、用什麼角色出現？你們針對重大事故或以前國內遇過的，現在要去找出事故的根本跟潛在的風險，你們認為應該要怎麼樣才能夠讓運輸安全可以做得更好？"],["林主任委員信得：就像委員平常有關切的用AI，現在有一些通報案子進來，通報不一定要立案，但是通報進來的時候，我們都會開始用比較科學化的方式去統計，譬如臺鐵的虛驚事件，我們想這個好像有系統化風險問題時就會主動跟臺鐵講。"],["許委員智傑：對啊！所以你們的具體建議對國家運輸安全有重大影響，可不可以整理一些給我看？"],["林主任委員信得：沒有問題。"],["許委員智傑：比如普悠瑪、太魯閣的事故這麼嚴重，這麼多年了，有沒有哪幾項是因為運安會的建議而有具體的改善，或者是你們建議了卻還沒有改善？後面你們有沒有追蹤？就是你們希望它改善，但是它現在還沒改善。我一直覺得運安會給我的感覺就是……我想看的是積極性、主動性的效果，但是不容易看到，所以我希望運安會可以調整。比如針對這一次的78歲長者，事實上運輸安全不是針對年齡高低嘛，對不對？運輸安全是針對安全駕駛，如何能夠有安全駕駛的空間。現在交通部也在研議，但運安會有沒有功能、有沒有角色、有沒有建議？","以上資料是我們秘書去查的，讓你們當參考。針對換照的制度，臺灣現在是75歲以後；新加坡、韓國是65歲以後；日本、美國是70歲以後；英國是年滿70歲自動失效；法國是15年體檢一次。從安全駕駛的角度來看，換照的年齡不能只針對老人，也不要讓老人被誤解，一個長輩發生車禍造成所有的長輩要受害，也不是這樣，而是從安全駕駛的角度來看，應該多久，或者是幾歲，或者是重大傷病，有一個不一樣的安全駕駛觀念去針對換照制度調整。我強調一次，不是只針對老人，而是強調的是安全駕駛，假設已經90歲了，但各方面機能得很好，像我們看到世壯運一百零幾歲的還能夠打羽毛球，對不對？人家身體好，各項健康檢查都通過，若他要繼續開車，當然符合標準就可以開，所以不是年紀的問題，這個部分運安會可有想法？"],["林主任委員信得：我想年齡的問題當然跟委員講的一樣，年齡不是真正的……"],["許委員智傑：我是說運安會可有作為？"],["林主任委員信得：我們的作為是這樣，事實上，面對事故我們是調查，然後對症下藥，找出來的原因如果跟交通部的一些……如剛剛講的高齡或者與安全駕駛有關係，我們會跟他們做連結。"],["許委員智傑：因為時間差不多了，我的重點是，我一直期盼運安會主動出擊，事故當然是被動出擊，但是掌握事故根本原因、潛在風險，提出改善建議，這個應該是主動出擊嘛？"],["林主任委員信得：是。"],["許委員智傑：好不好？"],["林主任委員信得：是，我們會後把一些資料給委員做報告。"],["許委員智傑：好，這個部分希望運安會可以加強。"],["林主任委員信得：是。"],["許委員智傑：好，謝謝。"],["林主任委員信得：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝許智傑召委。","現在請徐富癸委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":552,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-13","speakers":["林國成","陳素月","洪孟楷","李昆澤","林俊憲","許智傑","徐富癸","蔡其昌","魯明哲","鄭天財Sra 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