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Tahovecahe等18人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。十一、繼續審查委員張宏陸等26人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。十二、繼續審查委員黃捷等16人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。十三、繼續審查國民黨黨團擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。十四、繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「消防法第四十三條及第四十三條之一條文修正草案」案。十五、繼續審查委員牛煦庭等22人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。十六、繼續審查委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。十七、繼續審查委員林思銘等18人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。十八、繼續審查委員邱若華等20人擬具「消防法第四十三條之一條文修正草案」案。十九、審查委員徐富癸等17人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。二十、審查委員徐巧芯等18人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。二十一、審查委員蘇巧慧等16人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。二十二、審查委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。【第十九、二十案如經復議則不予審查，第二十一、二十二案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】\n\n【10月30日、31日二天一次會】）","委員名稱":"完整會議","委員發言時間":"08:30:46 - 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條文含修正動議,均另定期繼續審查,延遲本次會議繼續進行審查。現在介紹在場委員及列席官員王美惠委員"},{"start":1232.437,"end":1259.264,"text":"吳祁銘委員蘇巧慧委員因為我們每次審這個都遇到颱風所以部長跟署長有說他們因為應變中心成立他們11點前會趕回來所以現在我們先是馬世元次長"},{"start":1263.771,"end":1290.763,"text":"還有消防署我們的副署長簡萬堯我們也為了要快一點讓他救災啦其他我們就不一一介紹好不好我們上次都介紹過了好不好不好意思喔就本日已成新增資審查法案請提案委員說明提案要職我們第一個請蘇巧惠委員"},{"start":1299.107,"end":1320.529,"text":"好,謝謝主席。我的《消防法部分條文修正草案》的提案說明,《消防法》自1985年日定公佈以來,迄今已經經過13次的修正,不到3年就修正一次,也顯見消防安全長久以來一直是被很關心的議題。我們都要努力減少火災的發生,以減少社會上所需要付出的成本代價。"},{"start":1322.091,"end":1343.372,"text":"減少消防人員再發生搶救災害所造成的不幸事故是本席今天提案的核心精神因為消防人員是我們國家的重要資產維護消防人員執行職務之生命安全以及身心健康也是國家的責任因此本席藉由提案向所有的消防人員致敬更提出以下版本"},{"start":1344.173,"end":1354.161,"text":"本席版本包含日前審查已經提出的附帶決議,有三個大方向,敬請大家支持。一、在行政院的修法版本中,重要精神是要敦促企業重視自主風險管理責任,同時擴大修正吹哨者的適用範圍。本席認為有其道理,本席也認為當吹哨者出來揭秘時,"},{"start":1368.132,"end":1375.697,"text":"其工作保障仍應受勞動基準法所保障,若有發生相關糾紛,也應該要適用勞資爭議處理法,因此相關規定與這兩部勞動法令應該要切齊。二、同時本席也認為,因為這次修法有強化企業對災害的自主風險管理責任,因此主管機關應會同工業區主管機關辦理地方說明會。"},{"start":1392.947,"end":1404.942,"text":"特別對於工業區密集區域之處多加說明及修正意見,使企業能夠理解並遵循法規。三、秉持認為義消人員的協助,消防單位協助就在"},{"start":1406.328,"end":1425.882,"text":"的勤務,也是十分的重要,十分辛苦,因此國家也應該要照顧逸霄的身心健康,以發揮其救災戰力。因此,本席建請原議給予逸霄並其特定項目之健康檢查補助。以上三點,為了我的提案的說明大致,請各位委員支持並指教。謝謝。"},{"start":1432.014,"end":1446.999,"text":"立席機關準備之書面報告請委員知情參閱並刊登公報。報告委員會我們現在進行法案審查請宣讀新增審查討論事項第19案第22案之條文然後附帶決議請一併宣讀請宣讀"},{"start":1451.772,"end":1468.303,"text":"本院內政委員會分別於113年6月26日、10月16日召開第11屆第一會期第25次、第二會期第5次全體委員會議審查討論事項所列第一至第18案。上述18案之條文及修正動議均已宣讀完畢,現在宣讀新增提案之條文。"},{"start":1469.244,"end":1493.217,"text":"第15條委員蘇巧慧等提案。增定第4項直轄市縣市主管機關藉貨前項舉發因為必要之調查並於60日內將處理情形以書面通知舉發人。原第5項一列第6項並修正為第三項舉發人之單位主管僱主不得因舉發行為而予以解僱、降調、減薪、損害其依法令契約或習慣上所應享有之權益、調職或其他不利之處分。增定第7項"},{"start":1494.318,"end":1508.298,"text":"取發人之單位主管僱主為前項行為之一者無效,原第6項、第7項一列第8、9項,其餘同行政院提案。第9項後段增訂於本條例113年 修正施行前擬定報核之都市。"},{"start":1513.166,"end":1529.847,"text":"維園羅廷偉等提案同國民黨黨團提案。第二十一條之一委員徐富鬼等提案同行政院提案。委員蘇巧慧等提案第二款修正為火災發生時只派對前款資訊知情專人至現場協助救災其餘同行政院提案。委員羅廷偉等提案同國民黨黨團提案。"},{"start":1531.269,"end":1536.095,"text":"修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":1548.829,"end":1568.685,"text":"第二十八條委員蘇巧慧等提案同行政院提案。委員羅廷偉等提案同國民黨黨團提案。第三十五條委員徐巧欣等提案。序文中段修正為得併科新台幣100萬元以上500萬元以下罰金或該事業上億會計年度銷售金額10%以下罰金。其餘同行政院提案。"},{"start":1569.406,"end":1591.495,"text":"提案、委員蘇巧慧等提案同行政院提案、委員羅廷偉等提案同國民黨黨團提案。第三十七條,委員徐巧欣等提案,第一項第一款罰還修正為新台幣10萬元以上30萬元以下,第三項罰還修正為新台幣1萬元以上10萬元以下,其餘同行政院提案,委員蘇巧慧等提案同行政院提案,委員羅廷偉等提案同國民黨黨團提案。"},{"start":1592.856,"end":1609.788,"text":"第42條委員徐巧欣等提案第一項第五項法環修正為新台幣10萬元以上30萬元以下第二項法環修正為新台幣10萬元以上150萬元以下其餘同行政院提案委員蘇巧慧等提案同行政院提案委員羅廷偉等提案同國民黨黨團提案"},{"start":1611.109,"end":1640.072,"text":"第43條,委員羅廷偉等提案,同國民黨黨團提案。第43條之一,委員徐富鬼等提案,第二項後段修正為,處管理權人該場所營業額一定比例之罰還,裁罰金額及比例由中央主管機關另定之,若欲發生火災並致人於死者,處一年以上七年以下有期徒刑,其餘同行政院提案。委員徐巧興等提案,第一項第二項後段增加,或該事業上一會計年度銷售金額10%以下罰還,其餘同行政院提案。"},{"start":1640.872,"end":1669.286,"text":"修正草案、委員蘇巧慧等提案同行政院提案、委員羅廷偉等提案同國民黨黨團提案。附帶決議一、義勇消防人員協助消防單位消防救災勤務工作義勇於火災現場受火、濃煙之侵襲情勢,長期仍有影響身體健康之餘,為維護義勇消防人員健康,發揮其救災戰力,建請研議與義勇消防人員定期特定項目之健康檢查補助。提案人、委員蘇巧慧等5人。"},{"start":1670.126,"end":1697.537,"text":"覆蓋決議。二、為能打造消防人員更安全的執勤及工作環境,行政院提出《消防法部分條文修正草案》其利益良善,然而各級消防主管機關會同工業區主管機關應就修法中強化企業對災害的自主風險管理責任部分辦理地方說明會,特別是工業區密集區域多加說明及蒐集意見,使企業能理解且遵循法規以落實消防人員勤務安全,提案人委員蘇巧慧等4人。"},{"start":1698.437,"end":1725.643,"text":"負貸決議。三、本法修正通過後,為充分掌握工廠儲存化學品或一定規模以上之倉庫及公共危險物品室內儲存場所及化學品或危險儲存物品之種類數量之最新情況,原提案要求內政部應協調各目的事業主管機關與前階工廠、倉庫及場所之化學品或儲存物品之種類或數量異動時,需以30日內完成更新申報及每年不定期辦理實地查核。"},{"start":1726.423,"end":1734.709,"text":"立例預防火災、搶救災害及緊急救護及保護消防人員執行職務之安全提案人委員張志倫等6人。宣讀完畢。好,我們現在進行保留條文協商。在開始協商前,我請這個"},{"start":1748.263,"end":1765.442,"text":"內政部消防署上次有特別說那個去跟所有的委員溝通齁那你們是不是先報告一下溝通沒有問題的條文有哪幾條好不好我們這樣子才節省時間嘿好不好你們報告一下兩分鐘報告一下"},{"start":1771.638,"end":1771.658,"text":"財務部長"},{"start":1789.82,"end":1812.941,"text":"這個表示理解並同意修正的意見的有徐宇專委員、張周仁委員還有蘇巧慧委員還有黃捷那個副副長你直接講哪幾條溝通好了就好了是好不好現在目前有待討論的部分有15條還有21條之一43條之一這個可能還要等部長還有"},{"start":1814.322,"end":1814.903,"text":"蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":1833.53,"end":1852.839,"text":"案。二、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":1864.651,"end":1870.892,"text":"還有28條、35條、37條還有42條以上報告25條之一、25條之三、28、35、37、42是不是?是27之一勒?27條之一"},{"start":1896.167,"end":1925.11,"text":"這個有溝通了所以24條之一有嗎?有有有有都溝通好了齁?溝通好了四十三條之一四十三四十三有溝通了有你有沒有溝通好委員都在這裡喔?有四十三的有了?有有了齁?是"},{"start":1931.557,"end":1949.701,"text":"來,各位委員雖然他們說那他都有找大家溝通我們是不是兩分鐘各位委員你們再看一下講的這幾條如果確實好了那我們這幾條我們就不要再浪費時間好不好好不好阿你條文呢"},{"start":1956.528,"end":1957.049,"text":"你們條文勒?"},{"start":1987.297,"end":1987.517,"text":"修正草案案。"},{"start":2007.11,"end":2008.291,"text":"主席,主席,第37條的裏面本席有說要加重罰則,他說有溝通,跟我確定之後"},{"start":2026.26,"end":2045.6,"text":"本縣也沒接到,辦公室也沒接到,因為這條是以前我們審的事,我有意見,是不是該說一下?我現在請他印出來給大家看,口說無憑,所以我說印出來大家看一下,我們是為了節省時間才這樣。好,謝謝,謝謝。"},{"start":2849.383,"end":2860.97,"text":"好了沒?好了沒?副組長,你們溝通了,怎麼樣?"},{"start":2872.203,"end":2880.307,"text":"跟召委報告基本上委員都對我們事件溝通的一些剛剛報告的沒有問題啦溝通的條文沒有問題所以我再次跟各位委員確認一下25條之1、25條之3、27條之1、28條、35條、37條、42條有43條就是都溝通都沒有問題"},{"start":2902.728,"end":2928.385,"text":"就照現在溝通的,他們印給我們的這個溝通的版本通過,是不是?蛤?剛剛不是都給你們?對啊!欸呀,為什麼25之一沒給人家?我這邊有啊!25條之一他說溝通,嘿嘿,對,照院版"},{"start":2937.472,"end":2957.818,"text":"但主席沒分耶你們怎麼沒人?你們為什麼要給人家?他是照院班啊好大家再看一下再給大家兩分鐘時間好不好?"},{"start":2964.908,"end":2977.574,"text":"在各位委員你們在看的時候我們現在我們請我們再宣讀再修正動議跟四個新增附帶決議好不好我們用這個時間來你們看一下"},{"start":2980.606,"end":3000.552,"text":"第21條之一,消防指揮人員搶救工廠、儲存化學品質倉庫或儲存場所及一定規模以上之實驗室或倉庫火災時其管理權人應依下列規定辦理。一、提供場所平面配置圖及搶救必要資訊。二、提供該場所化學品質種類、數量、位置平面配置圖及搶救必要資訊。三、立即指派專人至現場並協助救災。"},{"start":3002.732,"end":3024.963,"text":"4、於必要時配合消防指揮人員之指示協助調度就在所需重機械並支付所有必要費用。前項一定規模以上之實驗室或倉庫由中央主管機關匯上目的事業主管機關公告之。第43條之一,工廠儲存化學品質倉庫或儲存場所及一定規模以上之實驗室或倉庫之管理權人違反第21條之一第一項第一款規定。"},{"start":3025.663,"end":3035.009,"text":"修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":3049.677,"end":3065.328,"text":"第一項場所致管理權人違反第21條之一第一項第三款規定為立即指派專人至現場並協助救災處管理權人新台幣50萬元以上1000萬元以下罰還但該場所為製造儲存或處理化學品者處新台幣5萬元以上30萬元以下罰還"},{"start":3066.369,"end":3093.457,"text":"第一項場所之管理權人違反第二十一條之一第一項第四款規定未配合消防指揮人員之指示協助調度救災所需重機械者處新台幣五萬元以上三十萬元以下罰款。第二十一條之二第一項規定之場所管理權人對於具有危害性之化學品違反該項規定位於該場所明顯位置設置危害風險標示板或危害風險有變動時未及時更新或設置標示板違反同條第二項公告有關等級內容顏色大小"},{"start":3093.897,"end":3100.585,"text":"或設置未知之規定者處管理權人心臺幣2萬元以上、150萬元以下罰款。提案人委員牛許廷等3人"},{"start":3102.116,"end":3109.898,"text":"副代決議4、參照內政部108年11月15日1070428桃園市晉鵬工廠火災全方位檢討策進專案報告及監察院113年9月4日113裁調0031號調查報告。雖相隔已有5年之久,為檢討問題仍圍繞於化學與化學品資訊內容不足因應救災需要。消防主管機關石英站在第一線消防消災人員"},{"start":3129.662,"end":3144.155,"text":"角度並依救災實務經驗確實通盤檢視化學與系統所提供資訊是否有待強化之處,如資料仍有不足或借鑒系統無法精進優化而無法滿足救災需求者,消防主管機關應參著《韓國消防設施設置及管理法》。"},{"start":3144.795,"end":3162.443,"text":"以救災觀點針對管理特定消防安全物資需求建立並運作電腦系統以資訊化系統化管理方式來管理運用,並由消防機關利於主導地位試工廠及倉儲火災救災情況,獨立建置符合救災需求之資訊系統,以確保資訊權之落實。"},{"start":3164.864,"end":3188.838,"text":"有鑒於此請內政部消防署於本案三讀通過後一個月內呈報獨立救災資訊系統評估及進行報告到院提案人委員牛許廷等三人。附帶決議五為持續追蹤大型倉儲消防設施列管進度四本案三讀通過後請內政部消防署於六個月內將其進度及成果報告送交立法院提案人委員牛許廷等三人。"},{"start":3190.307,"end":3204.73,"text":"修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。九、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":3218.912,"end":3236.157,"text":"內政部消防署應於本修正案三讀通過後6個月內責成各地方消防機關擬定策略方針,就其狹內重點工廠及倉儲演練,並將資訊權納入演練一環,以防患未然角度,在災害未發生前先行了解與規劃。提案人委員牛許廷等3人。"},{"start":3237.537,"end":3251.865,"text":"副代決議7本法修正通過後義勇消防組織為協助消防緊急救護工作除編組訓練演習服勤外其他相關事項應以本法所定為限提案人委員張志倫等4人宣讀完畢好各位委員大家都有看了"},{"start":3260.796,"end":3266.233,"text":"沒什麼問題啦齁那我在這邊跟各位再宣布一下齁所以我們"},{"start":3268.367,"end":3279.314,"text":"有修正的25條之3、27條之1、28條就照修正過後的條文通過。然後呢,25條之1、35條、37條、42條、43條就不予修正照原本通過。各位委員,我們是不是就這樣子。好,謝謝。那我們現在開始,我們從15條開始,好不好。好,來。"},{"start":3297.518,"end":3313.451,"text":"來,各位委員有沒有都沒意見來,牛委員先"},{"start":3314.432,"end":3339.261,"text":"我們上次不是有討論其實在上一次審議的過程中雖然沒有完全達成共識但基本上方向上有確定就是說這個吹哨者保護的部分就是有寫多列一項叫單位主管跟僱主為前項行為之一者無效那這條有沒有加進去來消防署報告委員這一條我們已經加進來了是"},{"start":3343.444,"end":3345.064,"text":"你們修正過的印給大家。"},{"start":3397.318,"end":3409.286,"text":"修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。"},{"start":3417.542,"end":3432.911,"text":"然後就穿恐龍裝或是你可以就是對帶寵物然後騎裝騎裝衣服你就可以用萬聖節的裝扮然後然後帶寵物去跑來我問一下消防因為這個"},{"start":3433.587,"end":3453.789,"text":"具消防署當初來溝通的時候其實有跟其他相關提案委員有做過說明嗎?因為當初的爭議就是說要不要把這個法律輔助相關的一些配套機制來做做明定入法嗎?那天當初其實在這部分比較沒有共識那我想請問一下消防署在這段時間跟當初提案委員溝通的一個狀況跟結果有沒有取得大家的認同?"},{"start":3455.689,"end":3467.735,"text":"跟委員報告,目前這個洪委員,洪孟凱委員的辦公室人堅持,那有意見,說要把這個法律輔助把它放進來。剛剛那個黃捷委員"},{"start":3479.377,"end":3488.999,"text":"案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。"},{"start":3504.522,"end":3527.018,"text":"因為怕畢竟就是吹哨者條款所以雖然前面的這一些他的像吹哨者回報進度的這些很具體的事項沒有放進去但是這個精神一定要要在所以我在這邊還是嚴正的表達我的立場就是一定要嚴格的保護吹哨者的身份好謝謝好謝謝然後蘇喬惠委員"},{"start":3530.869,"end":3540.133,"text":"條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":3557.961,"end":3584.451,"text":"以依照勞動基準法的第74條的文字,不管是說僱主不得因勞工為前項申訴而予以解僱、降調、減薪、損害其依法令、契約或習慣上所影響的權利或其他不利之處分,那或者是說僱主為前項行為之一者無效,或者是說應該在接到申訴後在60天內將處理以書面通知勞工等等,"},{"start":3585.371,"end":3603.724,"text":"這都是依照勞動基準法第74條來寫成的文字,這是我的版本。不過經過溝通之後,我是也感謝消防署這邊,因為等於是你們是部分參裁部分調整,比如說這個"},{"start":3605.845,"end":3629.641,"text":"在前面的這個地方你們是說既然勞動基準法裡面寫的非常多的調降啊減薪啊損害其法律等等就是跟現在的其他不利處分差不多你們想要這邊是精簡一點甚至等於是概括式的也許還有其他也可以加入那我也是可以同意啦所以這一段的話是可以照這個署這邊內政部的意見接受"},{"start":3632.543,"end":3655.925,"text":"那另外的話60日據了解你們現在的意思是說其實不見得應該要把這邊寫上去因為其實各地方縣市政府依循其內規甚至有在60天以比60天短太多的狀況所以反而不要特別寫一個60天反而讓現在有的好速度降速了那這個我當然更可以同意了解啦"},{"start":3656.465,"end":3683.162,"text":"那不過最後第三點的這個部分因為我也是堅持那你們也是同意了所以我是也希望說各位同仁在這個我們今天拿到的修正動議的第二頁背面這邊的這個紅字的這個部分所謂單位主管僱主為前項行為支持者無效這個部分既然消防署這邊已經同意了那大家也聽到我剛剛的說法其實就是參採勞動基準法那是不是大家在這個部分也可以表示支持這邊謝謝"},{"start":3687.194,"end":3710.786,"text":"還有沒有委員對這個有所以他們就是所以是就是照到現在給我們看這個修正修正過後通過啦好好那15條就照這個我們這個修正動議的這個修正通過好謝謝"},{"start":3714.403,"end":3728.432,"text":"那再來我們21條之一來各位21條之一有什麼有什麼意見主席"},{"start":3738.27,"end":3740.492,"text":"修正草案案案。二、繼續審查委員"},{"start":3757.408,"end":3781.705,"text":"現在乾脆就推給工廠管理可是我們現在審的是消防法不是經濟部的工廠管理所以消防署說條文這樣寫以後消防署是不能去監督也無法處罰那我們對於這一些平常就應該要更新的資訊就沒得掌握所以這一條本席希望能夠堅持 謝謝好 謝謝委員的一個"},{"start":3786.355,"end":3801.989,"text":"等一下等一下,還有沒有其他委員?好,那副組長你先說一下。好,謝謝委員的一個指教。因為這個條文把一定規模以上的實驗室跟倉庫把它拉進來。"},{"start":3803.764,"end":3826.822,"text":"在我們條文的精神裡面,就是一般的倉儲的業者,如果這些倉儲的業者平常要備制這些東西,像物流業者,他不斷的要去更新他的儲放的位置,這樣會造成業者的一個困擾,而且事實上我們在救災的時候,我們是希望危險物品儲放的位置在哪裡是比較重要的,而且"},{"start":3827.992,"end":3834.928,"text":"當然一般的物品我們都把它當成易燃性的物品在看待"},{"start":3835.902,"end":3852.145,"text":"條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":3866.936,"end":3887.423,"text":"我們也就是說如果不是危險的當然我們也不會去管他不過他裡面的25條之一裡面是有把這個就是搶救工廠儲存化學品之倉庫或儲存場所及一定規模以上之實驗室及倉庫火災"},{"start":3889.831,"end":3896.295,"text":"這跟我們原來的把它設定成為化學物品的這些場所是有相背離的。這個是因應這個倉儲啊,大型的倉儲業者來做相關的一個資訊提供啦。主席主席"},{"start":3909.058,"end":3928.91,"text":"事前副市長你明確說明一下在許委員他是希望給我們消防人員有一定的公權力針對所有的倉儲等等只要有化學危險物品等等的我們有一定的這個公權力可以保護到周邊的這些安全那你在這一個"},{"start":3929.75,"end":3955.633,"text":"修正動議裡面是不是有把這個釐清清楚也就是說我們擔心一定規模以上的實驗室或倉庫由中央主管機關會商目的事業主管機關公告之也就是說只要是有危險化學物品的這些相關的場域已經在21條之一的這個規範裡面了是不是再說明清楚"},{"start":3957.664,"end":3967.473,"text":"謝謝委員的一個指導當然我們的精神剛開始的時候是一定規模是把所有的這個工廠"},{"start":3969.369,"end":3988.42,"text":"原來的條文是工廠的一個發生火災以後要提供相關的一個資訊那在那個現行的條文第一款就是提供化學品的一個種類不過我們後來這個委員有建議有建議是把一定規模以上的倉庫"},{"start":3990.842,"end":4002.035,"text":"這個倉庫範圍就很廣了這剛我講的一般的倉儲那這個在外界在市面上這樣子的一個工廠的配置是很多的而且雖然"},{"start":4004.758,"end":4006.039,"text":"條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":4026.921,"end":4038.875,"text":"還有他的儲存數量要隨時更新。在資料的更新建置的部分在化學署有建置一個化學雲這個化學雲已經把"},{"start":4041.858,"end":4059.698,"text":"目前相關的主管機關包括勞動部包括化學署包括經濟部的相關主管的這個微型物品都要求要建置納入到這個化學雲系統裡面的一個資料庫跟委員報告。愛妞委員"},{"start":4064.321,"end":4080.672,"text":"這樣子齁 這個我們理解啦 在消防署跟溝通的過程之中現在納管的範圍變大了嘛 這一點我們覺得算是一個進步的地方那 文字上齁 最早是講最嚴格叫申報嘛 然後再次一次一等叫備制嘛 然後現在這個院裡面現在講叫提供嘛 那"},{"start":4081.512,"end":4099.901,"text":"這個差別在於說如果被置換你當然平常就有所謂的稽查義務當然防護的是更周密的但相對來講對於基層的工作負擔也增加了這個概念是這樣好那現在改成如果真的用提供這樣的話就變成是我只有在救災當下我才知道有或沒有嘛對不對所以衍生出來的問題一個是這樣"},{"start":4101.721,"end":4123.612,"text":"如果我們今天要接受大家溝通的版本用提供的話那我們至少要確保兩件事第一個你本來因為他有輕重緩急嘛就是你的工廠跟化學品你平常有沒有一個完整稽查的制度能不能跟大家做清楚的說明以安民心就表示說即便法條上沒有寫得非常的嚴格但是你該做的事情還是都有做這第一個要件要必須被滿足"},{"start":4124.512,"end":4149.047,"text":"在法條上才有退讓的空間。第二、如果只是提供,那表示只有災害發生的時候,我們才處理這件事情。那麼相關來講,如果他真的沒有處理好,我們在前面又沒有辦法嚴防於前,那就一定要重罰於後。也就是說,待會43條的時候的罰則,我希望大家就往上把它加。因為你現在平常,我沒有,不見得會隨時稽查,那真的出現悲劇的時候,那就一定要重罰。"},{"start":4149.767,"end":4150.128,"text":"條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員"},{"start":4163.207,"end":4192.236,"text":"欸等一下齁其實啦各位委員我們大家都在講都是想要讓他們更好啦我覺得21條之一的第一項的第二款我們如果在位置平面配置圖後面寫多一個總量位置平面配置圖及搶救必要資訊並及時要上網或什麼的我覺得啦這個一定是一定規模的不是每個啦"},{"start":4192.876,"end":4215.703,"text":"那你現在的有我們的AI我們的定位那其實這個是非常簡單的我們就只針對化學品他要隨時24小時他就往上可以查得到那他有任何移動也是都可以看得到我覺得這樣子就解決大家的疑慮了啊這也是我們這是有一定規模以上啊不是每家都要求啊我覺得"},{"start":4216.806,"end":4241.572,"text":"我覺得我們不應該給第一線消防弟兄更多的壓力但現在是科技可以解決的東西那我們就去解決啊或是立法說明把它說清楚我覺得大家一律就沒了啊我像徐委員剛剛講的也是類似這個意思啊對啊啊這個都已經是什麼時代了還是一個人一個人去看的嗎這只要大家都知道嘛"},{"start":4242.748,"end":4256.488,"text":"GPS定位什麼的他有沒有移動有沒有什麼馬上一目了然啊很清楚啊用科技去處理事情啊對不對我不知道各位委員這樣我們對不對這樣子是不是大家可以解決大家的問題了主席"},{"start":4261.355,"end":4262.856,"text":"條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":4281.03,"end":4308.487,"text":"那不要因為增加因為這樣子的隨時更新需要去檢查增加平時的負擔但有沒有其他的做法比如說定期的比如說你定期的發函請他們把最新的資訊回回來等於也就是說他們對對就是一個機制我們要的是其實大家都是為了整個的安全然後不要有這個遺憾的事情發生所以我們才會想到這個好不好這兩點謝謝"},{"start":4311.425,"end":4335.44,"text":"來 署長先說抱歉剛才在應變中心剛離開第一階段剛結束要繼續進行那剛才委員很感謝委員這麼關心消防法那針對委員剛才用科技的方法這是目前正在進行的一個作業那目前部長這邊特別交代兩個部分要處理一個就是國土署裡面的建築平面資料那我們已經跟國土署協調好這平面資料"},{"start":4336.32,"end":4361.493,"text":"即使的平面資料上網,我們會把這個資料介接到我們119派遣系統,這是第一點。那另外就是在環境部、勞動部還有經濟部,他的化學工廠這些申報資料跟平面圖也都在網站上。那我們也跟化學署協調就是這些資訊我們在消防署這邊會備份一套在這邊。"},{"start":4362.634,"end":4389.55,"text":"那怎麼樣把化學署這邊這麼多的資訊轉換成我就在派遣的時候可以用化學署是目前已經同意了所以已經同意把這個備份在我們這邊所以剛才趙紀仁所提到的即時用資訊的部分我們現在正在進行那這個進行的狀況就是要給我們一些時間就是怎麼把已經放在化學署的資訊跟國土署的資訊這個平面圖"},{"start":4391.604,"end":4410.919,"text":"整合成我們要用的,所以明年開始我們有5年的計劃,要針對119派遣系統的部分整個更新。那同時化學所資訊放在消防署,備份在消防署,我們要直接擷取裡面的資訊也比較方便,那大概都已經寫得好,所以委員關心的這些想法,"},{"start":4412.6,"end":4427.494,"text":"化學署的資訊裡面這些資訊包括經濟部他是要定期甚至即時要申報的所以平面圖跟化學資料這個是在網站上資料所以透過這樣的一個整合可能要委員容許我們一些時間"},{"start":4428.735,"end":4448.581,"text":"那這樣作業我們是已經計劃正在進行當中跟委員報告那如果說比較成熟一點這個資訊的狀況可能我們就會呈現給委員讓委員來了解說我們到底做到什麼程度那這些資訊是各縣市依舊我們都直接連線那資訊的分享這個目前講重點啦是各位委員"},{"start":4454.534,"end":4477.083,"text":"我覺得這樣署長你也是照這個方向去做啊照這個方向做我們就寫進去我們特別在立法說明寫清楚等跟環境部或什麼那個看多久時間才開始去執行這個對啊我覺得這樣就好啦就大家不用在這裡在那邊這一條在那邊等那麼久啊"},{"start":4479.073,"end":4498.918,"text":"處長看法?好,可以嗎?所以你剛講的就已經要做了啊?對,這些就是已經在上面了。不是不是啦,朝這個方向這樣來修法,認同嘛。好,那認同,你們現在趕快去寫文字給我們看嘛,我們進行下一條嘛,我們不要在這邊浪費資料。你還有意見,不好意思。"},{"start":4500.498,"end":4524.711,"text":"因為我其實有在修正動議啦,所以其實要處理,因為我們就加了一點,這個其實上次有初步討論,然後也有溝通,但我們這邊再做個釐清啦,就有關於這個救災的時候的重機械的調度啦,因為有些特殊狀況的時候其實可以調度重機械,那我們是覺得說以企業社會責任的角度來出發,你真的有這樣子調度的時候,其實有業者來支付相關的費用,其實因此合理。好,那這件事情是這樣,我本席認為這個是叫進步立法,"},{"start":4525.351,"end":4549.446,"text":"如果我覺得這次的消防法可以有把這樣的條文修進去其實對於大家來講都是得分的但是如果真的部裡面或者是署裡面有顧慮的話那我至少也要在這個地方討論的時候確定一件事因為桃園的這個火防自治條例是有把這樣子的條文寫進去的那我至少要確定這個東西未來送到行政院裡面的時候他不要被到時候去講說母法未允許或什麼的而被抵觸我至少要確定這件事"},{"start":4549.926,"end":4566.851,"text":"但我希望的當然是能夠在今天的討論中如果在全國有一次然後有這個進步立法我覺得也是這個修法的亮點是不是再花一點點的時間來做討論以上是不是麻煩把我的那個那個再修正東西也放上去其實跟前面都一樣但是我只是多了第四點而已好不好麻煩一下議事人員謝謝"},{"start":4572.044,"end":4592.17,"text":"本席想再強調就是說我們消防單位的檢查跟其他單位不一樣所以消防署我們是不是比如說剛剛劉委員說的我們罰則然後加上不定時抽查不是要造成我們第一線消防人員的這個負擔而是消防的檢查不要推給其他單位"},{"start":4593.816,"end":4613.265,"text":"那這個抽查或者是你發函請他提供最新資訊什麼我想都可以或是像我們朝委說的我們現在用一些科技資訊但是消防單位因為你的消防檢查就是你消防單位你要負起這個責任好不好我們希望今天修法能夠把握這個精神"},{"start":4615.567,"end":4638.329,"text":"我一關心就是檢查,檢查就是我們現在的狀況,包括消防安全設備檢查都是委由,消防設備是來做處理,那我們是抽查的狀況來進行這個狀況,就是不要讓這個工作又變成我們另外的一個負擔,那主要我們是想把這個責任放在業者身上,那後面的罰則我們是罰的很重喔,"},{"start":4638.869,"end":4643.852,"text":"公務員報告就41條之3,這八則都很重,你只要打到這個部分我會處理。"},{"start":4656.109,"end":4680.987,"text":"我們你們趕快去照我說的你要增加或什麼文字大家你們先擬一下那我們進行下一條我們不要在這邊一直打轉好不好這樣子才快啦那重機械我是不是報告一下重機械的部分地方自治條例這個我們都會支持因為就是個案的方式因為這個要收費齁在我們的收費裡面是違法的部分"},{"start":4682.205,"end":4697.794,"text":"修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":4710.501,"end":4724.818,"text":"假設可行業者可以接受也許我們下一次這個狀況多我們下一次也許納入我們母法的一個處理是不是可以用這個方式來處理這個我說明一下我在法條裡面寫的是配合指示所以其實消防單位在救災的時候他是有裁量的空間"},{"start":4725.979,"end":4730.421,"text":"條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":4757.772,"end":4776.827,"text":"確定就核准了嗎?對不對?不會有不能適用的問題嗎?自治條例你們有準博的意見嗎?他不違反母法你們沒有準博的權利啊地方議會通過的啊他們是沒有準博的權利啊"},{"start":4779.246,"end":4783.068,"text":"審查委員黃瑋媛主席主席在這裡因為我覺得這個提供這個罰款這個"},{"start":4808.655,"end":4836.863,"text":"案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":4839.476,"end":4841.586,"text":"我們有一個……等一下,那個吳清明委員"},{"start":4846.668,"end":4858.996,"text":"因為事務三條之一在發生大家都環境不同地理環境不同救災的情況也不一樣為了讓我們現場救災指揮人員馬上了解現場的狀況相關負責人應該平時就要備好化學品的種類與數量"},{"start":4869.443,"end":4888.429,"text":"審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":4900.334,"end":4914.385,"text":"還有沒有其他委員來那個署長你說明一下感謝委員對於這個條文的一個支持跟重視那這一次的法律的修正我們是大而把這個違法的情形大而的提升"},{"start":4915.326,"end":4941.014,"text":"包括委員這邊有提到說下限跟上限的一個調整那目前我們在依照委員的一個建議我們在有一個整理就在各位委員手頭上的這個資料是委員跟我們過目一下是不是用這個方式來處理我們修正過就整合大家的意見期待說讓這個處罰是有感覺的那目前這個額度是很有感覺的一個處罰額度跟委員報告主席"},{"start":4944.424,"end":4956.587,"text":"主席 我覺得 署長我本市委員會覺得這個法款的金額太貴了我覺得要再提高法款一點來 署長你看這個民營大火跟新竹的大火造成這麼多事情出來我覺得這個法款 署長你看怎麼處理"},{"start":4974.79,"end":4986.634,"text":"是,感謝委員的一個指導在第43條之一我們是把這個儲存這些場所那邊提供這些資訊的時候或者資訊不實的時候這處罰2萬元到50萬"},{"start":4990.695,"end":4999.578,"text":"審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。"},{"start":5009.142,"end":5018.113,"text":"第三項是針對於沒有立即派員協助救災,甚至提升到50萬到1000萬元,這是額度蠻高的狀況。當然不是化學物品處理場所,當然我們額度就在5萬到30萬。"},{"start":5027.441,"end":5044.36,"text":"會有他的有沒有化學物品的程度的一個差距。那最後一項是兩萬到一百五十萬就是針對標示版這種狀況的情形大概分別把不同的違法情形就前面條文有所講述到的這些違規狀況"},{"start":5045.882,"end":5064.243,"text":"我們都已經有做這樣的一個處理跟列述那看委員這樣的一個處理跟列述這個額度在我們消防法、立法到現在目前的額度是最高的我們的在所有的歷史資料裡面還有我們目前的修正條文裡面這個條文處理法處罰的是最高的"},{"start":5066.96,"end":5068.54,"text":"蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":5092.441,"end":5113.074,"text":"那王委員,你直接說,你認為要多少啦?那個3萬到38萬那個齁,那個提高3萬到1千萬3萬?沒有,王委員我們用他修正這個來說一下,你說第一項"},{"start":5127.08,"end":5135.244,"text":"條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":5150.282,"end":5153.283,"text":"蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文"},{"start":5181.002,"end":5199.421,"text":"看委員有沒有再有知道的意見這個額度是也在提高的當然還好我們就是有個Range在啦就是有下限跟上限那到時候處罰這種情形我們會針對處罰的情形來做一個分析跟處理來 林委員"},{"start":5200.441,"end":5224.234,"text":"我還是關注在倉儲的部分因為現在以列管的方向來講應該都是以大型的倉儲為優先所以大型的倉儲當然就是可小可大就是說如果他沒有提供資料或沒有配合救災的時候小的狀況你當然下限低一點沒有關係可是我覺得因為是大型倉儲的納管萬一造成像美孚或家樂福這種大型的影響的時候我認為這樣子的上限是不夠的所以我認為上限應該要佐證"},{"start":5225.154,"end":5227.557,"text":"消防法部分條文修正草案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":5241.693,"end":5242.193,"text":"二、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":5271.913,"end":5272.413,"text":"條文修正草案案。"},{"start":5286.041,"end":5301.366,"text":"是感謝委員行事法的部分有行事法的處理的一個造成傷亡這個部分另外有條文在處理一個區塊那是不是我們是行事法的部分等一下委員再跟我們指教一下那行事法的那個狀況進行額度"},{"start":5303.086,"end":5304.787,"text":"條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":5328.558,"end":5335.554,"text":"還有沒有其他委員?沒有的話,其實署長我覺得啦"},{"start":5337.062,"end":5365.6,"text":"沒有辦法了他剛講了我覺得啦大家的看法都有一致而且我個人也是真的論我們這個43條之一其實我們一開始就有寫了它是一定規模以上的並不是針對一般啦如果針對一般你可能小型工廠我們這種法案太重不合理不合理但這是一定規模以上的"},{"start":5366.62,"end":5379.472,"text":"這個一定規模的以上,我也覺得你罰個兩萬塊是要幹嘛?你罰個兩萬要幹嘛?這是一定規模以上喔!所以我也認為應該是可以拉高一些吧!"},{"start":5380.723,"end":5382.644,"text":"蔡其昌等21人擬具蔡其昌等21人擬具蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":5410.674,"end":5411.514,"text":"條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":5433.49,"end":5435.491,"text":"修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":5454.369,"end":5454.969,"text":"條文修正草案案。"},{"start":5475.852,"end":5480.034,"text":"草案案件事項 。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":5497.727,"end":5512.906,"text":"修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":5513.487,"end":5539.777,"text":"修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。九、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":5544.501,"end":5571.187,"text":"條文修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、繼續�"},{"start":5572.447,"end":5584.135,"text":"修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":5588.978,"end":5596.663,"text":"二、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文"},{"start":5611.053,"end":5624.087,"text":"條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。"},{"start":5642.119,"end":5645.646,"text":"修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":5657.975,"end":5678.906,"text":"修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":5684.768,"end":5703.476,"text":"條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。"},{"start":5713.02,"end":5733.986,"text":"修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":5735.487,"end":5754.737,"text":"修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":5762.862,"end":5769.565,"text":"一、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。"},{"start":5783.991,"end":5791.394,"text":"管理圈人因電磁上傳至中央目的世界主管機關實驗室網路平台,因電磁上傳至中央目的世界主管機關實驗室"},{"start":5812.783,"end":5831.552,"text":"修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":5832.341,"end":5837.065,"text":"審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文"},{"start":5859.283,"end":5872.759,"text":"修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":5877.705,"end":5903.971,"text":"修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。九、繼續審查"},{"start":5906.252,"end":5917.844,"text":"修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":5922.408,"end":5941.353,"text":"修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。"},{"start":5943.393,"end":5964.14,"text":"修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":5969.102,"end":5989.78,"text":"修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬"},{"start":5991.481,"end":5993.222,"text":"草案案。三、繼續審查委員黃捷等21人擬具"},{"start":6007.692,"end":6014.595,"text":"審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。"},{"start":6028.413,"end":6030.495,"text":"三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":6057.773,"end":6064.018,"text":"三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。四、繼續審查委員"},{"start":6078.611,"end":6080.132,"text":"規範公佈公佈公佈公佈公佈"},{"start":6102.206,"end":6105.267,"text":"案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":6123.411,"end":6124.352,"text":"條文修正草案案。"},{"start":6153.251,"end":6181.54,"text":"提供一時提供就發動火災收藥業我要你提供的時候你才提供我還沒有我來不及提供備次就是你要準備好意思就是說反正意思就是說現在就是你就是要提供你不提供我就重罰你我了解可是你是用備次去所以一定罰得到因為你提供沒有提供他也罰得到意思就是說一時提供我摘的時候他只要來東西我消防署關於是幹嘛對 我是說消防署就是他不管你不提供你沒有提供就罰你"},{"start":6183.1,"end":6185.461,"text":"捷等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文捷等21人擬具"},{"start":6208.467,"end":6234.127,"text":"修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。"},{"start":6237.809,"end":6240.97,"text":"條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":6258.781,"end":6272.898,"text":"修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。"},{"start":6276.005,"end":6278.97,"text":"條文修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":6296.254,"end":6320.91,"text":"修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":6327.414,"end":6354.261,"text":"修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。九、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。"},{"start":6355.401,"end":6366.175,"text":"消防法部分條文修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":6372.904,"end":6382.515,"text":"修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":6389.964,"end":6401.39,"text":"副委員你的疑慮應該是在最後認定的處罰到底是有備制還是因為處罰因為43條他最後消防署這個認定他是處理43條這個範圍的或者是21條這個認定會有問題認定處罰的到底要適用哪一條發生火災就是處罰"},{"start":6416.838,"end":6418.98,"text":"審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":6441.055,"end":6442.817,"text":"修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":6452.114,"end":6459.499,"text":"條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。"},{"start":6470.665,"end":6472.886,"text":"案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":6494.484,"end":6496.886,"text":"對、對、對,沒有提供,提供卻也不實的,就會罰免。"},{"start":6509.824,"end":6531.743,"text":"二、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。"},{"start":6538.788,"end":6557.418,"text":"消防法部分條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":6563.801,"end":6565.062,"text":"案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":6579.83,"end":6580.551,"text":"43條之一、第2項 。"},{"start":6603.946,"end":6632.385,"text":"不是 這個不是最後的 你沒有把調整過的路段適當打好了打好了打好了 等一下會呈現多一點好了沒 好了好了好了 這一分鐘可以喔 也可以喔有法規不就愛支持 愛說 愛記不是啊 沒有先溝通齁 我聽到沒先跟你溝通有溝通有溝通 這個法條很重要 你看特別都不太來 都不記不支持"},{"start":6633.462,"end":6635.185,"text":"一、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":6649.104,"end":6671.095,"text":"條文修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":6673.356,"end":6674.838,"text":"案。三、繼續審查委員黃捷等21人擬具"},{"start":6688.59,"end":6708.106,"text":"只有火災發生所以說火災發生你沒有提供你沒有提供可是我認為這有個問題那我就不提供我不提供才罰我不提供我不提供才罰五十萬我提供了虛偽罰三百萬那我不提供啊對不對沒有啦都可以罰到三百啦不提供跟虛偽"},{"start":6715.673,"end":6719.442,"text":"未提供或提供有啊 就寫未提供"},{"start":6723.013,"end":6728.975,"text":"規定未提供長途行政委員會執行長途行政委員會執行長途行政委員會執行長途行政委員會執行長途行政委員會"},{"start":6749.372,"end":6753.735,"text":"蔡其昌等21人擬具蔡其昌等21人擬具蔡其昌等21人擬具蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":6781.462,"end":6799.655,"text":"好來各位委員那手頭上都有拿到修正過了嗎的這個條文都有拿到了嗎那是不是請各位委員你們看一下這樣子的修正大家有沒有意見OK"},{"start":6807.403,"end":6831.369,"text":"都OK吼?好,謝謝各位,那我們就21條之一就照修正過後通過,43條之一也照修正過後通過,但我這邊要補宣告一下吼,我們剛剛第43條吼,是維持現行條文不予修正,不是照原版吼。"},{"start":6832.829,"end":6844.376,"text":"剛剛第43條已經處理過了,我重新宣告一下,是維持現行條文不予修正。我們現在要來處理附帶決議。"},{"start":6858.386,"end":6882.346,"text":"有七項,那第四項、第六項委員同意修正,然後接我們是不是就按修正條文通過?都有齁?那第一項、第二項、第三項、第五項、第七項我們全部照案通過?好,沒有意見齁?"},{"start":6883.615,"end":6909.327,"text":"好那我們請宣讀協商結論消防法部分條文修正草案保留條文協商結論第15條修正通過第21條之一修正通過第25條之一照行政院版通過第25條之三修正通過第27條之一修正通過第28條修正通過第35條照行政院版通過第37條照行政院版通過"},{"start":6910.387,"end":6919.077,"text":"第42條造行政院法通過第43條維持現行條文不予修正第43條之一修正通過通過附帶決議7項以上報告"},{"start":6922.497,"end":6948.555,"text":"好,請問各位委員,照剛才宣讀的協商結論通過,請問有異議?沒有。沒有異議,通過。那本次會議審查通過之條文條次引述條文部分文字及相關法制用與授權主席及議事人員整理,然後請內政部將本次審查時有修正之條文如有補充立法說明,盡速送至委員會,並列入公報紀錄,納入審查報告,"},{"start":6956.78,"end":6968.047,"text":"討論事項所列議案消防法部分條文修正草案案。即22案均以併案審查完略,分別擬具審查報告提報院會討論。請問在場委員需不需經黨團協商?不需"},{"start":6975.393,"end":6987.024,"text":"所以本案與院會討論時,由本席張昭吉委員張宏祿做補充說明。好,沒意義齁?好,那本次會議到此結束,現在上會。"},{"start":7001.766,"end":7013.549,"text":"修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文》案。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}