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黃雲勳的部分所以我們相關的一些交通用地這些都是在我們這次基本設施內"},{"start":220.945,"end":242.861,"text":"因為現在大家也很在擔憂未來會不會有內湖科學園區一樣的問題就是交通上的一個影響所以像這些都是我們現在在這次有關一般補助款裡面納入的一個內容但是另外我也想要跟委員報告一下因為我們大家覺得在地方上很不解的是說像這我手上的是"},{"start":243.981,"end":259.905,"text":"我看到是總統令在今年的3月21號公布中華民國114年度中央政府總預算裡面我們看到第26款直轄市及縣市政府第一項直轄市及縣市一般性補助款2501億元照列"},{"start":263.906,"end":281.184,"text":"也就是呢 今天從地方政府上看起來就是立法院是分文未刪啊 完全照列所以我們當然覺得說請問你那個 這一底的 我們的一般補助款在台北市議會通過沒有"},{"start":282.105,"end":294.151,"text":"通過了一毛錢沒有刪去年8月31號沒有 是我們事是不是一毛錢沒有刪當然一毛都沒刪而且我們現在都已經拒以執行中好 來來來 請就署記者"},{"start":298.411,"end":320.959,"text":"其實主席長你是好人啦不過好人有時候不一定做了對的事像你這個事到底雙重違法第一個我們經過立法院通過的預算它就是法律叫措施性法律然後你說你還釋憲"},{"start":322.898,"end":341.98,"text":"那你請什麼用呢 如果你說實現了 所以我就不理他那這樣子你這個請的不能用 你現在請的在用嗎你請的在用 第一個你這個全數通過 而且地方議會每一個議會也都通過了你到底的是侵犯了立法權"},{"start":343.103,"end":369.928,"text":"我們通過了,這是我們的職權我們通過了預算一般補助款一毛錢都沒有刪結果你大大一括要刪636億第二個,財務法30條第三項也是講到了不能比去年少你也是這樣刪所以到底的你是筷子手你違兩個法一個就是我們立法院通過的措施性法律一個就是財務法"},{"start":371.528,"end":393.962,"text":"主席長你要不要解釋一下你這邊來我要講一下喔這個剛才副市長講的你刪了哪些他講的長照所以我們看到這個過去的謠言都說我們刪長照對不起我們問了衛福部的市長一毛錢都沒刪結果他們沒有刪你刪了"},{"start":395.783,"end":420.072,"text":"你刪了 我也沒有刪了 是你刪地方的長照所以你刪了是什麼 老的 小的 身障的 社會福利還有交通設施 無障礙的設施 比如說啟明學校 啟中學校這些都是非常弱勢的 你專門殺弱勢的難怪啊 主席長 你有內法的 你要不要解釋一下"},{"start":421.099,"end":447.951,"text":"報告委員我們這個3的部分就是說雖然你這個一般性補助你沒有寫說要3但是你有在那個3減的裡面要我們自行3減636我通過了嗎對通過要3減636要我們自行3減636但是636我們3減的部分我們是表示是有困難因為我們前面已經3減了你不要混淆大家了我們原來就有統3"},{"start":449.512,"end":473.945,"text":"我們就刪了300多億但是有一個636是沒有指定刪減的但是基本上就是原來統算的那幾項沒有那幾項中央的單位那幾項縱使再刪我們是沒辦法承受業務根本沒辦法進行所以這個部分再刪的部分只能刪到國防外交和教育那這三項我們都不能刪所以只能不得不要刪減一般性補助我們都鼓勵你了"},{"start":475.806,"end":502.526,"text":"而且台北市我再跟您報告台北市它經過刪減以後它還比去年增加82億所以台北市本身的財源就是非常的好護士長講一下說你刪的比以前多護士長講一下是跟我們報告事實上大家都這麼認為但事實上以今年來講我們如果是用統籌分配稅款加上補助的部分台北市是六都裡面排名第五名"},{"start":503.789,"end":525.422,"text":"這個啦 大家都希望來我講一下給大家科普 也不是科普嘛中央給地方就三筆錢第一個 統總額稅款第二個 一般性補助款第三個 計畫型補助款一定要這三個加起來一起看六都裡面 台北市永遠都是第四名 第五名"},{"start":526.723,"end":554.624,"text":"很簡單 因為它是台北市因為它是台北市這就是這樣啊 大小園啊 老公宅啊所以這個主地產不能夠只有挑一項來講啊台北市它是排第二 並不是排第五喔我們把三項合起來 它是排第二喔那是你講的 來來來 我們副市長你第二 你講第五呢是 報告一下 我們一百四年的部分是總共八百六十億元 六都排名第五第五啦"},{"start":555.244,"end":562.409,"text":"所以今年是第五 去年是第四因為我們這邊數字是顯示第二喔不是第五喔解救辦法"},{"start":576.178,"end":592.853,"text":"我們現在這個左院長實在很厲害啦要給他刪636你就等於哪個人來勒索反正地方政府的補助款大家一定心痛好 再追加預算啊這結果是什麼結果就是沒有刪到這636啊 636跑掉了Let's go"},{"start":596.857,"end":615.742,"text":"昨天636有夠厲害的 滿天過來的刪掉補掉 所以你63636啊因為縱使要辦追加也必須要符合追加的條件才有辦法追加你現在用這個來恐慌我們這是沒辦法做的一步主席長 這樣字字不厚道啦 把636吃掉了"},{"start":624.824,"end":636.056,"text":"不落道 而且傷及地方的這些老的小的基礎的可憐啊這個 小心喔 換完先不來喔"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":292,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（11時9分）謝謝，主席。有請臺北市的林奕華副市長以及主計長。"],["主席：有請臺北市林副市長，還有主計長，謝謝。"],["賴委員士葆：首先請教副市長。"],["林副市長奕華：是，委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：現在砍了地方的補助款，臺北市到底砍掉哪些東西？"],["林副市長奕華：好，要非常感謝召委有機會讓我們能夠來到財政委員會表達這次行政院突然刪減地方政府一般性補助款對我們的衝擊，以及要表達反對之意，在這邊要先報告一下我們所影響的部分，我有做一個表格，也就是關於我們所有被刪減的部分，社會福利支出被刪掉27.6%，教育被刪掉38.9%，基本設施被刪掉27.4%，還有補助地方政府統籌運用財源被刪掉59.5%，當中社福是大家最關注的，我們都知道這裡面跟兒少、老人、弱勢或是婦女相關的預算很多，像大家看到的由地方政府配置優先辦理項目，第一個是兒少、婦女、老人及身障福利支出，跟委員報告，包括老人的收容安置、長照的服務，還有像社會局委託民間單位辦理老人服務的相關方案，比如老人日照、老人服務中心，以及……"],["賴委員士葆：我打岔一下，所以三道的長照是不是？"],["林副市長奕華：對，還有老人健保自付額的補助，以及重陽敬老金，還有鼓勵大家生育的孕婦好孕2U乘車補助，另外還有包括五歲以下育兒津貼、兒童托育補助、委託收容及危機家庭兒童的托育補助等等。另外也要跟委員報告，有些是屬於硬體設施，這些硬體設施事實上都是有關於兒少、婦幼受暴者的收容安置、長者的關懷據點、日照中心等等，這在社會局主管支出的部分也一樣都會受到相關的衝擊。再者，在基本設施的部分，大家都知道臺北市這幾年致力於一件事情，這也是中央要求要洗刷人行地獄這樣的不好聲譽，所以我們也花了大量的錢，希望能夠做人行道的改善工程、道路改善及維護工程，而這次基本設施也受到相關的衝擊。"],["賴委員士葆：你這裡提到北士科，所以會影響到北士科，這個要不要講一下？"],["林副市長奕華：像北士科的部分，當然目前大家知道像NVIDIA可能會進到北士科來……"],["賴委員士葆：黃仁勳。"],["林副市長奕華：對，就是黃仁勳的部分，所以相關的一些交通用地，這些都是在我們這次有關於基本設施……"],["賴委員士葆：所以弄得不好黃仁勳就不來嗎？"],["林副市長奕華：因為現在大家也很擔憂未來會不會有像內湖科學園區一樣的問題，也就是交通上的影響，像這些都是這次一般性補助款納入的內容。","另外我也想要跟委員報告一下，地方上很不解的是，我們看到總統令在今年3月21號公布中華民國114年度中央政府總預算裡面，我們看到第二十六款「直轄市及縣市政府」第一項直轄市及縣市一般性補助款2兆5,001億元照列，也就是從地方政府看起來立法院分文未刪、完全照列，所以我們當然覺得……"],["賴委員士葆：請問這筆一般性補助款在臺北市議會通過沒有？"],["林副市長奕華：通過了，所以要跟委員報告我們……"],["賴委員士葆：一毛錢都沒有刪？"],["林副市長奕華：去年8月31號告訴我們……"],["賴委員士葆：是不是一毛錢都沒有刪？"],["林副市長奕華：當然一毛都沒刪，而且我們現在都已經據以執行中。"],["賴委員士葆：好，我請教主計長，其實主計長你是好人，不過好人有時候不一定做了對的事，像你這個就是道地雙重違法，第一個，經過立法院通過的預算就是法律，叫措施性法律，然後你說你還要釋憲，那你錢怎麼用呢？如果你說釋憲了，所以我就不理他，這樣子錢就不能用啊！但現在錢都在用啊！這是全數通過，而且每一個地方議會也都通過了，所以這是道地的侵犯了立法權，我們通過了，這是我們的職權，我們通過的預算，一般性補助款一毛錢都沒有刪，結果你大刀一揮要刪636億。第二個，財劃法第三十條第三項也講到不能比去年少，但你也是這樣刪，所以你是道地的劊子手，你違兩個法，第一個是立法院通過的措施性法律，另外一個是財劃法。主計長，你要不要解釋一下？根據剛才副市長講的，你刪了哪些？他講到長照，所以過去的謠言都說我們刪長照，對不起，我們問了衛福部的次長，其實是一毛錢都沒刪，結果他們沒有刪，你卻刪了！我們沒有刪，是你刪地方的長照，所以你刪的是什麼？老的、小的、身障的社會福利，還有無障礙交通設施，比如啟明學校、啟聰學校，這些都是非常弱勢的，你專門殺弱勢的，難過啊！主計長，你違法連連，你要不要解釋一下？"],["陳主計長淑姿：報告委員，我們刪的部分就是雖然一般性補助你沒有寫說要刪，但是在刪減的金額裡面要我們自行刪減636億……"],["賴委員士葆：我們通過了啊！我們已經通過了啊！"],["陳主計長淑姿：對，通過的是要我們自行刪減636億，針對刪減636億的部分，我們表示有困難，因為我們前面已經刪減……"],["賴委員士葆：你不要混淆大家了！我們原來就有統刪，我們只有刪了三百多億。"],["陳主計長淑姿：但是有一筆636億是沒有指定刪減的。"],["賴委員士葆：但是基本上就是原來統刪的那幾項。"],["陳主計長淑姿：沒有，那幾項……"],["賴委員士葆：中央的單位……"],["陳主計長淑姿：縱使刪那幾項，我們也沒辦法承受，業務根本沒辦法進行，所以再刪的部分只能刪到國防、外交和教育，但這三項我們都不能刪，所以不得不刪減一般性補助款……"],["賴委員士葆：我們都鼓勵你了啊！"],["陳主計長淑姿：我再跟您報告，臺北市經過刪減以後，還比去年增加82億，所以臺北市本身的財源就是非常的好……"],["賴委員士葆：副市長來講一下，他說你們刪減以後都還比以前富有，副市長講一下。"],["林副市長奕華：跟委員報告，雖然大家都這麼認為，但事實上，以今年來講，如果是用統籌分配稅款加上補助的部分，臺北市在六都裡面是排名第五名。"],["賴委員士葆：我講一下，不過這也不是對大家科普啦！中央給地方就三筆錢：第一個是統籌分配稅款，第二個是一般性補助款，第三個是計畫型補助款，一定要這三個加起來一起看，六都裡面臺北市永遠都是第四名、第五名，很簡單，因為它是臺北市，現在就是這樣啊！大小眼啊！這個大家都知道。所以主計長你不能只挑一項來講……"],["陳主計長淑姿：臺北市是排第二，並不是排第五喔！我們把三項合起來，它是排第二，不是排第五……"],["賴委員士葆：那是你講的！","副市長，他說你們是第二，你卻說是第五。"],["林副市長奕華：我來報告一下，我們114年總共是860億元，六都排名第五；去年是842億，六都排名第四，所以今年是第五，去年是第四。"],["賴委員士葆：對啦，就是這樣，主計長你不要亂講。"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為我們這邊的數字是顯示第二，不是第五。"],["賴委員士葆：你們這樣爭辯也沒辦法啦，我算的就是第四名或第五名，解救辦法……卓院長實在很厲害，要給他刪636億，就等於拿個人來勒索，反正地方政府的補助款大家一定心痛，只好再追加預算，這樣的結果是什麼？結果就是沒有刪到，636億就跑掉了，it's gone！有夠厲害，這叫瞞天過海啊！先刪掉再補掉，所以並沒有刪636億啊！"],["陳主計長淑姿：縱使要辦追加，也必須符合追加的條件才有辦法追加，所以這個部分……"],["賴委員士葆：你現在用這個來恐嚇我們，說這個……"],["陳主計長淑姿：這是沒有辦法，這是沒辦法做的一個地步……"],["賴委員士葆：主計長，這樣子不厚道啦！把636億吃掉了不厚道，而且傷及地方老的、小的、基礎的，可憐啊！小心喔！黃仁勳不來喔！"],["主席：謝謝賴委員。","接下來請鍾佳濱委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":376,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-15","speakers":["賴士葆","吳秉叡","鍾佳濱","李坤城","林德福","陳玉珍","黃珊珊","王鴻薇","賴惠員","郭國文","李彥秀","顏寬恒","王世堅","黃國昌","羅明才","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","許宇甄","張啓楷","葉元之","徐欣瑩","邱鎮軍","林思銘","蘇清泉","王美惠","陳冠廷"],"page_start":299,"meetingDate":["2025-06-04"],"gazette_id":"1145601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、本院台灣民眾黨黨團，有鑑於行政院主計總處行文各縣市政府，將中央編列給地方政府的一\n般性補助款自114年度5至12月份分配及撥付數全數改為未分配數，已嚴重違反立法院通案刪減、\n促進政府資源有效配置之決議精神。中央政府預算編列浮濫，原編列三兆一千億元，立法院通案\n刪減後仍有二兆九千億餘元之數，為中華民國史上最高之中央政府總預算，本院本於職責審議預\n算，以督促中央政府增進財務效能、減少不當經濟支出甚至浪費之目的，中央政府不思檢討如何\n有效節用分配資源，卻意圖慷地方政府之慨，緊縮一般性補助款補助事項，將直轄市、準用直轄\n市規定之縣及縣（市）基本財政收支差短與定額設算之教育、社會福利及基本設施等改為未分配\n數，此舉不僅違反原預算刪減提案之意旨，更將嚴重影響地方財政及運作，對地方長期建設造成\n劇烈衝擊。爰建請院會作成決議：「行政院主計總處應依立法院審議中華民國114年度中央政府\n總預算案通案刪減之決議意旨，由中央各機關及所屬編列之預算刪減調整，並立即將一般性補助\n款足額撥付予地方政府。」請公決案；二、邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、財政部莊部長翠\n雲、內政部劉部長世芳及法務部就「近十年中央政府依財政收支劃分法、地方制度法等地方政府\n之補助情形及對均衡地方經濟發展之成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1145601_00006"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}