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材料及肥料產值最高而商業服務業約128.94萬家就業人數高達697.4萬人以零售、餐飲、物流、倉儲、生活服務等勞動力密集行業為主"},{"start":2194.039,"end":2216.355,"text":"那麼在製造業面臨的問題及解決的對策上面我們所面臨的問題這個疫情加速製造業數位轉型進展除電子商務外在這個生產、行銷、供應鏈管理等營運發展均需透過數位手段提升營運效率及品質此外,全球"},{"start":2217.723,"end":2241.618,"text":"進行探討推動企業邁向淨零轉型為轉型的過程涉及製程及設備的提升供應鏈管理等多方面的調整進一步增加企業營運的成本傳統製造業具營運及資本規模小的這個特性面對少量多樣的這個趨勢、產品身邊收集等的挑戰"},{"start":2243.593,"end":2267.741,"text":"資金有限且投入研發風險很高那我們的解決對策一、協助企業數位轉型二、引領企業淨零轉型三、推動企業研發升級四、降低企業資金的負擔那麼服務業面臨的問題及解決的對策面臨的問題服務業就業進入門檻較低且資訊科技推升零"},{"start":2268.681,"end":2286.186,"text":"零工經濟發展轉向部分工時零工等型態拉低平均總薪資加以少子化以及勞動者提早退出職場以致於勞動力規模縮小服務業缺工問題日益嚴重此外我國內"},{"start":2287.886,"end":2302.459,"text":"內需市場規模有限且競爭激烈中小型服務業者受其營運規模商機掌握行銷整合能力的限制而缺少統一品牌拓展通路不易"},{"start":2303.36,"end":2320.494,"text":"解決的方法我們有幾種一、協助企業數位轉型二、引領企業淨零轉型三、鼓勵企業僱用中高齡者就業四、發展特色商圈刺激消費五、協助企業拓展通路"},{"start":2321.607,"end":2349.207,"text":"此外,為讓中小企業更容易取得升級轉型所需資金將研議新增30人以下中小微企業優惠貸款對於朝數位轉型、淨零轉型以及通路發展的中小微企業及稅級登記業者提供低利率與高保證陳述的貸款支持該方案除額外提供"},{"start":2350.543,"end":2354.491,"text":"保證額度外對貸款金額在250萬元以內者補貼利息1.5%補貼期限為半年"},{"start":2362.14,"end":2387.949,"text":"經濟部非常重視傳統中小製造業及服務業發展所面臨的問題故已於112年爭取三年約317億元役後特別預算協助產業加速朝向低碳化、智慧化方面轉型製造業提出研發創新提供租稅服務業提出"},{"start":2388.729,"end":2394.683,"text":"通路拓展及資金協助等措施更成立產業競爭力發展中心免負專限"},{"start":2399.66,"end":2421.251,"text":"零八零零零零零二五七以及馬尚辦服務中心擔任輔導面及金融面窗口解決中小企業及傳統產業問題以上報告,敬請各位委員指正視教敬祝各位委員身體健康,諸事順利。謝謝好,部長請回座來,謝謝經濟部部長詳細的報告"},{"start":2427.332,"end":2442.522,"text":"接下來請國家發展委員會劉靜清主委做報告以示合併報告主席、各位委員、先進、大家好"},{"start":2444.636,"end":2454.409,"text":"很高興來到貴會針對青年低薪劑如何促進企業提升青年及基層員工薪資進行報告．並備質詢。敬請不吝視教根據勞動部"},{"start":2461.431,"end":2484.522,"text":"的分析十五歲至二十九歲青年勞工就業調查結果一百一十一年十五至二十九歲青年平均薪資為三點四萬較一百零九年增加了百分之五點四較一百零一年增加了百分之二十四且超過六成青年勞工成餘限職獲得加薪"},{"start":2485.612,"end":2511.515,"text":"另因行政院主計處工業及服務受僱員工全年薪資中位數統計結果,111年25至29歲受僱勞工全年薪資中位數為48.8萬,年增幅約1.86。關於青年低薪的因素探討,青年低薪的因素非常多元,包括出入社會工作年資較淺,"},{"start":2513.575,"end":2513.795,"text":"一、邀請經濟部部長"},{"start":2532.881,"end":2560.331,"text":"政府也積極的去協助這些青年如何改善低薪所以我們也訂定了青年的低薪改善的八大政策那事實上政府從107年就提出10項薪資的改革到了112年提出了投資青年就業方案第二期那今年的10月30我們已提出了八大對策第一個對策是提升產業與企業的能力"},{"start":2560.911,"end":2583.066,"text":"因為明顯的是青年在就業所待的產業跟企業獲利能力會影響到青年的就業薪資那我們希望透過一些政策的推動提升比較多的高薪就業機會讓青年有更多的高薪就業機會取得較高薪資再來是我們提升企業加薪意願對於有能力而"},{"start":2583.906,"end":2605.591,"text":"無意願的企業我們予以比較強力的政策引導第三是教育技能我們協助一些青年能夠去做轉型與教育的提升尤其在教育部的STAND方案中我們積極的在處理另外我們也會提供社會教育協助青年轉型進入薪資較高的領域第五是強化區域均衡"},{"start":2606.531,"end":2628.457,"text":"現在透過園區的推動很明顯的將中南部的薪資開始往上提升追上北部所以整個國家將會進行六大區域的一個均衡規劃第六是創新創業我們透過創新創業讓年輕人有更多自主創業的機會可以獲得更高的薪資第七是由政府帶頭"},{"start":2629.939,"end":2635.214,"text":"第八是我們減少青年人的負擔,譬如說社宅,譬如說租金補貼等等。"},{"start":2638.348,"end":2666.747,"text":"那針對幾個比較大的重點我們先在這邊報告第一個是政府作為加薪的引擎的部分我們會先帶頭由政府去對外承攬進政府工作的這些非政府的基層員工我們的月薪要高於最低工資第二個部分我們對採購的部分我們將會調整希望將來政府採購都要高於最低工資1.1倍再來我們在另外我們在政交法"},{"start":2668.808,"end":2694.084,"text":"政見交易法修正的時候也會由金管會來要求上市會公司明定營餘提撥的比例作為基層員工的調薪與分配另外我們強化薪資的透明勞動部會研議修正就業服務法將薪資介入的門檻提升至5萬同時金管會也會研議薪資門檻最低工資1.3倍的公司才能夠納入上市會公司申請"},{"start":2695.385,"end":2717.633,"text":"同時,我們也對於基層員工的平均數、中位數納入企業永續報告揭露範圍。同時,我們會對於持收資本額超過100億的公司117年起,我們對於申報性別性質的差距也同時會有強力的要求。第三個部分就是我們講的企業賦能,透過經濟部擴大中小型企業的發展。"},{"start":2718.673,"end":2745.789,"text":"也做了一個很大的改善那同時呢我們也透過信保基金去對於企業對員工加薪的部分我們會額外提供融資的協助那也同時政府對於中小企業願意去提高薪資的部分也予以相對優惠稅務的補助基於這幾種方式呢我們希望透過這樣的方式來提升青年的薪資以上報告"},{"start":2746.73,"end":2754.14,"text":"那接著報告我國傳統產業與中小企業發展困境以及因應對策的看法"},{"start":2755.558,"end":2782.685,"text":"二零二三年因為市場存貨過高以及疫後的經濟表現不如預期加上高通膨以及這個地緣政治干擾的影響以及中美之間的紛爭造成全球經濟產生一個動盪的現象也造成了終端需求的疲軟那今年稍微有一點回溫但是因為俄烏戰爭的持續跟以亞的衝突加上中國的內需疲軟"},{"start":2784.451,"end":2810.342,"text":"也讓這個企業還是受到相當一定程度的影響那為了解決這些問題政府的幾個因應措施在這邊做一個說明第一個是促進產業升級的轉型我們深入了解企業大概中小企業分成兩類一類是積極創新型的企業目前表現都相較良好但是呢屬於比較非積極"},{"start":2812.003,"end":2838.585,"text":"創新的部分很明顯現在受到了很大的壓力那過去在這個過程中這些企業多半重視成本的控管重視短期利益、忽視長期的利益因此急需政府的幫忙與協助所以目前本會與經濟部協商之後有幾項推動的做法第一個是由經濟部以大代小輔導個別廠商模式提升產業升級轉型然後朝向這個智慧化與低碳化"},{"start":2839.586,"end":2862.895,"text":"本會也透過國發基金針對這些企業採購設備的部分與融資的協助。同時,經濟部也會對低碳化與智慧化的領域提供更多的輔導與協助。增於這一點,本會也透過國發基金將與環境部合作成立綠色成長基金,也同時已經匡列了100億給速發部透過AI的轉型發展協助企業。"},{"start":2869.363,"end":2889.13,"text":"在中小微的企業部分,除了中小企業政府已經投入110億元協助中小微企業進行面的改善而非僅點的改善那這個部分也是本會也積極的透過幾項基金協助經濟部一個是服務業的轉型基金一個中小企業的轉型基金"},{"start":2889.85,"end":2915.587,"text":"那這幾個基金合計從環境部預計的100億加上AI的速發部的100億經濟部的200億其實共有400億投入這個領域協助企業翻轉第二個部分是均衡產業發展很明顯的傳統產業不論是在我們之前談到的加薪能力或者是在產業轉型上面都遇到很大的挑戰與瓶頸那當前我們看到最大的問題在於是"},{"start":2917.108,"end":2924.027,"text":"大家要進入數位化的階段過程中以及國際化的競爭中明顯遇到資本的劣勢因此"},{"start":2925.875,"end":2953.201,"text":"本會除了積極與國客會、經濟部、速發部推動AI發展協助產業AI化AI產業化之外也同時會協助這個中小企業跟傳統產業進行產業控股的方式加大資本效率透過資本效率凝聚更強的競爭力與發展另外我們也會與外面的基金合作籌設企業再造基金針對"},{"start":2955.137,"end":2979.41,"text":"有能力、有機會在進行再造的企業予以投資與轉型協助企業直接翻轉跟脫困第三個部分,除此之外,協助企業之外我們也會加速新創事業的發展提供青年跟這個企業更有機會發展自己的事業新創事業是中小企業的一環我們也會依循賴總統在未來4年內我們要達到1500億的投資量能作為基礎"},{"start":2984.073,"end":3003.981,"text":"打造創新創業與聯繫、活絡投入投資生態、擴大投資標的以及提升創業成功機率三個角度予以協助與支持以上為本會針對中小企業的翻轉的措施跟振興方案的報告以上謝謝委員"},{"start":3008.396,"end":3033.613,"text":"好,坐請回座,謝謝主委針對兩份報告詳細的說明來,頒行政院主計總署、勞動部、教育部及財政部的書面報告請各位委員自行參閱,我們並刊登公報在委員詢答之前,我很快的介紹今天列席的各部會的官員經濟部由郭字位部長以及中小企業"},{"start":3034.713,"end":3061.763,"text":"署產業發展署、商業發展署三位署長列席。國發會由由諸委及人力發展署、產業發展署、社會發展署、管制考核署、世衛署長列席。另外,國發基金由師傅執行秘書列席。主計總署由國事普查署盤處長列席。勞動部的部分重規師王司長列席。勞動域發展署由吳助長列席。"},{"start":3062.662,"end":3086.49,"text":"教育部的部份請發署陳署長列席另外高教師、資訊科技師、技職師另外財政部的部份由負責署倪副署長列席現在要進行詢答了那針對今天的詢答針對報告事項兩岸我們進行合併的詢答"},{"start":3092.557,"end":3118.744,"text":"那這個委員諮詢之前主席按照往例做以下的宣告每位委員發言時間本會委員6分鐘必要時延長2分鐘非本會委員4分鐘上午10點30分截止發言登記但是為了要讓這個會議"},{"start":3123.661,"end":3141.852,"text":"進行能夠順利以及兼顧每位委員發言的實踐的公平性以及不要影響到下一位委員發言的權益在每位委員諮詢時間結束後主席會立即請諮詢委員停止諮詢"},{"start":3144.898,"end":3160.009,"text":"若不聽質詢,主席會議以致止。請各位委員能夠盡量配合。感謝。好,現在進行質詢。首先第一位委員,請陳庭威委員質詢。"},{"start":3169.215,"end":3170.721,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":3182.099,"end":3203.406,"text":"部長,我想今天大家都在關注美國的大選,到底是賀錦麟當選還是川普。我想這兩位當選,現在可能對於台灣比較大的影響,大家會比較關注的是川普在選前的那一番發言,所謂的"},{"start":3205.475,"end":3214.108,"text":"臺積電奪走了美國100%的晶片事業所以他認為他要向臺灣臺積電來收保護費這樣的一個議題"},{"start":3219.622,"end":3247.481,"text":"我想你認為這個議題是真的議題還是假的議題還是它就是一個選舉過程的一段話而已在你認為因為你們兩個都是產業界過來的有你們的角度我想先請部長報告委員委員長這個命題我想是在選舉之前所提出來的所以我們"},{"start":3249.991,"end":3272.616,"text":"不能夠在這個期間還沒有確定之前我們只能這個討論就是比較不公開的來討論因應這個命題那如果說你要問我我是不是可以用個人的想法好像不太行用個人的想法來回復你的問題不過以我們在企業界的觀點來看台灣的經濟跟美國的經濟其實是互補的"},{"start":3277.765,"end":3300.365,"text":"就川普他在選前提出這個命令其實他是互補的臺灣是在這個晶片的供應鏈上面非常的強但是對供應鏈的設計設計的部分美國大概佔了全球美國大概佔了全球的這個供應鏈大概七八十個percent所以"},{"start":3302.073,"end":3325.422,"text":"如果這個有這樣的一個現象發生的時候我相信對美國的業者並不見得是一個好事這是第一點第二點我們看到那個台積電在這個亞利桑那他那個廠到現在這個已經完全的這個試產成功了所以下個月他們將會"},{"start":3328.223,"end":3335.633,"text":"有一個很好的訪問要發出那我們再看不管美國新的總統是誰應該都會在"},{"start":3342.232,"end":3369.934,"text":"開創出來這個條件是對台積電最有利的那台積電在這個先進製程我們所謂的先進製程大家都知道這個是7奈米以下的製程幾乎它是一人五零所以你再怎麼限制都沒有辦法限制它的發展因為市場有強烈的需求所以不管誰當選我個人 我的這個在企業上面所聽到的"},{"start":3371.223,"end":3375.792,"text":"跟我所發現的應該是對台灣特別是對台積電"},{"start":3377.84,"end":3399.294,"text":"應該是影響不大包括他所謂的可能會去撤銷晶片法案其實很多人都認為這根本就是假議題因為也不是一黨說了算一個人說了算所以為什麼我們在現在雖然美國大選還沒有正式結果出來我會問這個議題因為在現在這個時間點我們所看到的確實川普"},{"start":3406.258,"end":3419.672,"text":"的一個領先幅度比較高所以我覺得我們還是要讓我們台灣的企業有些穩定軍心就是說不論是誰當選基本上它就是一個政治的議題選舉的議題"},{"start":3422.191,"end":3445.957,"text":"對於在整個晶片產業鏈當中影響不會很大甚至所謂收保護費這個知識體大不是一個總統說我要收保護費就可以收保護費那請問保護費的意義是什麼意涵是什麼就像剛剛部長所說的當你企業有這個需求的時候你要收什麼保護費"},{"start":3447.981,"end":3466.975,"text":"對不對?企業是有需求的阿美國企業有這個需求大家都在排單都在等著我們給單我們還用這樣的所謂晶片護國神山要去打國家隊世界盃所以我覺得這個本來對於我們來講我為什麼要用這個議題來詢問重點我們要穩住軍情"},{"start":3470.798,"end":3496.685,"text":"我現在問國發會主委因為主委也是從企業界轉到我們這個所謂的行政團隊那麼在你的看法呢我先跟委員說明一下如果他收保護費受到傷害的是Apple、NVIDIA、AMD、Intel這些國際大廠所以川普是生意人他不至於去收保護費造成他"},{"start":3497.305,"end":3512.159,"text":"與美國產品受到更高的成本,漲價出來,影響到民意。第二個部分,台積電當年有配合它進到了亞利桑那去生產,所以有三個廠對美國的安定已經存在了。所以我認為這是一個選舉語言,"},{"start":3513.92,"end":3542.387,"text":"因為它要實質實施會比較困難反倒是它會對中國企業開徵60%的稅然後逐年會減少對中國的進口這個反而對台商是一個好的機會第二個部分是它會擴大像類似對華為等等這種公司的禁令這個禁令對台商也是一個比較好的機會所以我比較正向去看這件事然後我們也會鼓勵台商勇於抓住機會去發展更好的未來"},{"start":3543.387,"end":3563.259,"text":"謝謝主委,其實這個就是我們今天的重點了因為我們通常在媒體上都看到所謂的要收保護費可是我們沒有去看到川普在另外一個區塊對於中國企業所做的限制甚至他在一個稅的部分要提高60%"},{"start":3565.08,"end":3588.439,"text":"那麼如果相較之下在於收保護費在我們的評斷這根本就是不可行因為這是一個市場趨勢也就像我們主委所說的不是只有台積電啊要說保護費你可以說我只要說台積電的保護費嗎不可能啊它所涉及的是一些世界大廠"},{"start":3589.5,"end":3615.801,"text":"那麼所影響的層面絕對美國會先受傷所以這知識體大可是對於中國他的標的非常的清楚對於中國的企業他已經說了他要去做一些限制甚至要提高關稅這個部分他講得非常的明確所以我們都認為在今天這個主題當中我們希望"},{"start":3616.943,"end":3628.593,"text":"如何讓我們的產業界更安心尤其今天大家開始關注的都是美國大選到底是誰當選當選之後會不會影響到台灣的一個經濟和中國的經濟"},{"start":3633.863,"end":3654.797,"text":"所以在川普目前大幅領先的狀態我才會用這個議題來詢問我們的部長跟主委因為我們的部長跟主委剛剛好都是從企業界非常非常資深而且在領域當中都非常有成就的轉戰到我們的行政"},{"start":3655.828,"end":3684.02,"text":"所以在這樣的前提之下我們希望藉著你們在企業的經驗跟行政來做結合我們不希望像我們剛剛所提的報告所謂的中小企業他未來的整個青年低薪還有如何做傳產的振興這些如果只有像我們書面他做不了真的是做不了我們必須結合你們兩位在第一線"},{"start":3685.16,"end":3708.994,"text":"在第一線曾經有的經驗結合進來不能再用制式的一些行政理念如果可以的話我們不用每一次都在談論這個議題所以再麻煩我們的部長跟主委麻煩你們了,謝謝好,非常謝謝陳廷輝委員部長跟主委先回座"},{"start":3711.457,"end":3739.546,"text":"您也稍微等一下我們確認一下議事錄我們先確認一下議事錄請問在場委員針對上市會議事錄有錯誤沒有錯誤我們議事錄確定下回質詢請林丹化委員有請部長請郭部長委員長部長本席要針對希望您聚焦在這個"},{"start":3741.107,"end":3765.753,"text":"服務業服務業當中我也聚焦在我高雄我們高雄市的服務業的產值是2.58兆整個高雄市包括工業、農業我的服務業的產值是佔了我們高雄市全產值的46%我服務業的加數是15.5萬家也就是我高雄市的盈利事業當中82%的加數是我服務業"},{"start":3770.094,"end":3793.265,"text":"好那但是我服務業的就業人口呢是我全高雄市就業人口的也佔了六百分之六十一他的營業的這個加數百分之八十二他的服務人口佔了我高雄市百分之六十一但是他的產值也佔了我高雄市百分之四十六點多那相較於全國的數字我們服務業跟產值跟就業人口佔比是六成"},{"start":3794.686,"end":3816.983,"text":"這個數據所呈現的數據是什麼?也就是今天為什麼我要跟你討論高雄市的服務業型態多為小型、家宿多、人力需求大但人均產值是較低的,也就是低薪好,我就針對我們商業服務業在全國來講其實也是有大概這樣的問題全國的服務業有128.94萬家、就業人口697.4萬"},{"start":3822.947,"end":3836.376,"text":"以零售餐飲物流倉儲生活或排除了金融業除了金融業之外全部都是勞動力密集的行業這也都再加上少子化缺工後疫情產業形態改變衝擊"},{"start":3838.798,"end":3863.786,"text":"最大的族群而服務業就業進入門檻低臨時工或零工型態造成產業陷入低薪的惡性循環更加速了勞動力的退場缺工的問題日趨的嚴重所以本席希望能夠經濟部能夠針對壯世代的資源如何結合壯世代的資源能夠成為勞動部跟經濟部思考的關鍵政策"},{"start":3864.486,"end":3886.986,"text":"好 那我們看全國跟我高雄 全國來講的一二三級產業三級產業也佔了整個這個產值46.21% 二級佔了52.76% 那我高雄的就業人口一半的就業人口 我高雄總人口270萬 一半就業人口其中三級也就是服務業 我佔了61%啊"},{"start":3889.523,"end":3914.919,"text":"我剛才在前言的時候我就講二級就工業我才36%而這二級我又聚焦在中油為主的化學材料中鋼為主的基本金屬以及日月光為主的電子零組件我看我三級服務業臺北市的三級服務業因為金融都聚焦在臺北所以他的服務業的產值就服務人口也多佔了他的產值也達到81%"},{"start":3918.261,"end":3944.822,"text":"台中的第三級服務人口也佔了52%但是他有聚焦他的餐飲業好那這個只是一個關鍵高雄服務業當中你看右邊這張圖就好我在這邊的服務業從累積到我今年的第二季運輸倉儲業跟我的不動產業其實是佔大多10%以上零售業跟餐飲業次之佔9%以上"},{"start":3946.663,"end":3961.253,"text":"次之才是金融保險業那這當中有一項就是帶動我住宿的就是演唱會經濟如果有演唱會經濟的話平常我們住房率到58%有演唱會跟會長我的住房率可以到80%到90%好那這個是這張數據當中要去凸顯的好我的問題在哪裡高雄服役的問題"},{"start":3970.619,"end":3991.358,"text":"第一個缺乏人口紅利這是全國也是全世界的問題也好在高雄市有這個演唱會的經濟補助但是相較於臺北、台中我高雄市缺乏常駐型的商業服務業這就是等一下你們要協助輔導提升高雄市的方案在哪裡"},{"start":3992.479,"end":4017.725,"text":"二、市場競爭加劇區域商圈發展出現很大的落差這個商圈我又分為街頭型的商圈跟百貨型的商圈如果是我們高雄街道型的商圈共有31個我們非常的團結但是所呈現的是城鄉發展的差距即使在城市內我北高雄跟南高雄的差別以南高雄以火車"},{"start":4020.706,"end":4048.593,"text":"高雄火車站來做劃分北高雄跟南高雄這在街道型的差別也很大如果說我把大型百貨跟商城視作商圈的話就是相對的對於消費者來說百貨也是一種消費場域的選擇對街道型的商圈當然會有排擠那這個一般傳統型的街道型商圈跟百貨型的商圈都存在的體驗服務品質的"},{"start":4049.193,"end":4050.855,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":4065.393,"end":4086.475,"text":"好 那這個就是我要去凸顯說這個是我爬梳出來的高雄服務業瓶頸的第二項市場競爭加劇區域商圈在街頭型跟這個百貨商圈的這樣彼此的一個落差第三個本席認為有缺忽略的品牌意識也應該要強化包裝跟銷售"},{"start":4089.518,"end":4109.713,"text":"第四、服務業勞動利益短缺及服務人才,所以高雄需要重視的體驗價值的商業服務業往高端方向發展,邁向國際性服務業大層本席有建議,這幾個建議我希望部長您能夠一個月內提出精進方案"},{"start":4110.333,"end":4126.922,"text":"所謂經濟方案要含預算要含期程而且以書面方式來回復本席我希望您的這個經濟方案當中有這幾項品牌化提升我商業競爭力第二個年輕化激發我創新的能量"},{"start":4127.702,"end":4145.938,"text":"第三、智慧化這其實你們有在做但是都是單點的做也就是您的報告當中所提的建立商業模式第四、特色化封入我商業的內涵第七、國際化的拓展商圈當然下面這也是我就整體要帶動"},{"start":4147.319,"end":4170.055,"text":"整個服務業,這個不是你的業務,但是呢,針對內需的消費力,高雄市應該要積極這個國際課員以飛行4小時內的航線為主要的推動對象,如新加坡、馬尼拉、日本、韓國檔等。當然這不是您的業務,但就我剛才所提的這五項的發展方向,提出一個院提出經濟方案,您怎麼看呢?"},{"start":4170.958,"end":4196.394,"text":"報告委員我想謝謝你的這個指教呼應你剛才所指導的這個內容之一到目前為止高雄你看到的就是你的演唱會辦的時候整個高雄就是生氣勃勃所以我會在這個會展這一方面來強化高雄的這個服務業也就是說我們在所有的"},{"start":4197.688,"end":4220.606,"text":"表演、文化的這些大型的這個會展以及三類的大型的會展吸引客人進入到高雄部長,我希望我是整體性的宏觀的來看我高雄的服務業因為既然要提升它的要改善它的低薪如果它的產值沒有大量的產生的時候就不可能有高薪的產生"},{"start":4223.067,"end":4244.343,"text":"我先不講金融業那其他的部分你如果在我整體的從這個問題的爬數部長你好好看一下我這個問題的爬數這是整個高雄市現有基礎上我們應該還要再延續的那我希望你經濟部做什麼在一個月內提出經濟方案可以嗎請你可以交代你的商業司司長在哪裡"},{"start":4247.118,"end":4266.869,"text":"市長可以嗎?一個月提出來,整體高雄的。是針對你的這個議題嘛,是不是?整體我整個高雄的方向。還是你要針對整個高雄的改善?我不只有會展,那個不是我要的而已。是整體。但是我建議啦,你參考我的意見比較有效。"},{"start":4269.344,"end":4298.071,"text":"部長,把你的意見列入,你的意見只是我其中一個,叫做品牌化、年輕化、智慧化、特惠化、國際化、當中國籍,本席是以高雄市的高度,你如果只是會長,部長你如果真的要再繼續跟我討論的話,可以,來,我們來看,那個叫做波段式,只有在會長的時間,演戰會跟會長的時間才達住房率百分之八十到九十,我平常是沒有的,百分之五十八,"},{"start":4298.971,"end":4326.73,"text":"部長你要虛心聽聽民意啊為了做這個是開了多少次的會啊你一個部長你以為你是你是企業經營沒有做但是你當政務官其實是有待觀察的謝謝謝謝委員謝謝林大華委員謝謝謝謝主席部長請回座就是按照林委員的要求就提供說明資料嘛就是他要求一個月之內就其他就不要再"},{"start":4329.687,"end":4334.651,"text":"不要再暢所欲言了。下一位質詢請李玉玲委員"},{"start":4351.075,"end":4356.616,"text":"主委,我們今天是要討論低薪的問題那尤其在我們臺灣的薪資已經停滯了超過20年那勞動部在公布了一些我們2023年年輕人的薪資的整個報告裡面我們看到在職場上有四個大學生裡面有一個就是領基本工資的那尤其是整個低薪的這個困境我們政府一直都沒有妥善的改革的一個方針那尤其現在年輕人看不見"},{"start":4380.401,"end":4380.701,"text":"主任委員及經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":4399.642,"end":4400.503,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員及基層員工薪資水準"},{"start":4425.023,"end":4425.063,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":4445.716,"end":4463.964,"text":"這個基本工資的調整是有考慮到這個CPI的狀況這是有的但是委員提到的是薪資的提升是的確要去做的所以您看到的就是為什麼這樣講你調整這個基本的那個工資但是我們看到2022年到這2024年的9月漲幅高達百分之"},{"start":4467.466,"end":4472.428,"text":"十點六的這個CPI的這個成長率的年增率就在我們17項民生物資裡面就佔了10.6%所以你漲的薪資就是整個被這個物價高漲這個給吃掉了"},{"start":4483.973,"end":4508.675,"text":"委員是這樣您這是2022年到2024年所以2022年我們有調整基本工資2023年也調整基本工資可是我們物價還是高漲啊所以你調漲的幅度會不會就在物價上漲的幅度以今年來講核心通膨在1.86那整個CPI非核心含非核心波動型的通膨大概在2.3那所以這次的調整是有考慮到這個數字的"},{"start":4511.154,"end":4537.412,"text":"那您這個數字是連續三年我們連續三年加起來應該也會有達到這個數字啦所以我們必須要扭轉這低薪的問題所以可不可以主委本席的建議就是說你要公布企業薪資整個結構要透明化好不好你不要調整基本工資那這個基本工資我們看到是有些的基本工資他們領的如果三萬塊就超過你基本工資那所以說根本企業就沒有給他們調薪超過三萬領超過三萬三萬二三萬五的他就沒有調啦"},{"start":4540.794,"end":4558.596,"text":"你只調基本工資嘛好不好這個問題你結構上你回去透明處理這個整個結構我們現在是有繼續的調整跟您很快報告三件事第一個勞動部修正就業服務法要提升薪資透明原來是4萬以下的現在要5萬以下的第二個金管會也會開始去"},{"start":4559.938,"end":4570.941,"text":"去設定這個薪資門檻就是也要求最低工資1.3倍你包括這個本席都有看到你的資料都知道現在我們擔心的是企業之間會透過聯合的行為用一樣的低薪的這個薪水去壓榨勞工這就是你要去讓他們企業整個透明的結構要呈現出來我也請經管會協助就是進行那個產業薪資比較表出來看誰高跟低那你多久時間給我們"},{"start":4589.938,"end":4597.13,"text":"我還要再問一下經管會好,一個月好不好?好好,謝謝那諸位請回那現在請郭部長請經濟部郭部長"},{"start":4600.131,"end":4613.981,"text":"國務部長講到低薪這跟企業有關係我們要提高中小企業的加薪的誘因在這邊我們看到的我們中小企業的發展條例裡面特別是說一定的人數在24歲以下65歲以上的話你們就有做一個這個補助這個基本薪資那請教一下那24歲以下的人勒"},{"start":4623.188,"end":4648.64,"text":"他現在讀大學他讀高中那他畢業要去當兵當兵回來的話他剛好就在24到30之間是不是這個部分的話你可以說在這個加薪減稅的這個部分可以在24歲以上30歲以下年輕人讓他們這個企業能夠徵顧一些年輕的勞工的意願可以嗎報告委員這一個那個是說對這個以下的人或者是"},{"start":4649.64,"end":4670.04,"text":"六十五歲以上的這些比較年長的人用的企業給予一些減稅的輔導因為他們初出社會不管當兵回來或大學畢業找工作的時候是非常辛苦的如果說你這個沒有給他一個保障跟鼓勵企業去多請一些年輕人的話所以他們還是會在低薪階段這個部分部長可以調整嗎"},{"start":4671.581,"end":4671.961,"text":"邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":4700.598,"end":4707.742,"text":"市長,我們勞動部有針對這個產業執行這個職癌的訓練在這訓練當中我們看到我們在這個2020年到2023年產業的產業新尖端這個尖冰的這個計畫裡面我們投入了非常多的資源在辦這個執訓那在這個執訓裡面在這一次執訓裡面總共有兩萬"},{"start":4725.171,"end":4750.285,"text":"三千五百五十五人在投入那我們看到他們出來之後的話將近有百分之二十五點五的年輕人並沒有投入相關的產業這個是不是你們課程的規劃沒有符合產業的需求謝謝委員的追尋這個部分來講因為現在我們還在評估中因為等於說產業新鮮冰基本上他們新入職場的部分然後那本身來講這課程裡面我們也在做隨時的滾動調整"},{"start":4751.946,"end":4777.663,"text":"所以你看這個兩萬三千多人裡面拿到薪水四萬以上的只有四千八百二十九人將近有拿到三萬以下的就有一萬零兩百三十五人所以他們執訓出來沒有拿到他一個水平的薪水還是在三萬以下的低薪這是你們執訓有沒有針對產業的需求你們去產業去調查說他需要什麼人你培訓什麼人為什麼這個有落差沒辦法馬上就業呢"},{"start":4778.303,"end":4798.205,"text":"跟委員報告因為基本上來講因為訓後之後他要經過一段時期而且本身來講在企業內他本身要了解企業等等的運作情形那基本上而且我們其實不只這個部分而已其實我們在就業之後我們還有財產人才的投資方案他隨時可以精進自己的技能我想其實"},{"start":4799.146,"end":4823.696,"text":"職業的訓練的培訓是逐步建立的然後本身來講他進入這場一個基本門檻之後那逐步建立他基本從基本門檻建立他基本的技能之後呢再逐步的按照他所需要市長你要了解因為我們會培訓這些人員的話就是我們要訓練人才產業需要的人才但是產業上這個人力的這個缺口我們要去給他補足讓產業跟我們的這個整個年輕人他們的創業"},{"start":4828.078,"end":4850.53,"text":"共同的能夠符合的話才有雙贏的局面我們勞動部這邊是不是可以提出一些改善的一些方案呢?可以,沒有問題那這個方案你們什麼時候提出來?一個月好不好?好好,謝謝好,謝謝這個李玉琳、趙偉這個非常精確的諮詢好,那個下一位諮詢請謝伊鳳委員好,來,這個"},{"start":4868.02,"end":4872.146,"text":"謝謝主席我想要請郭部長跟劉主委請經濟部郭部長、國發會劉主委"},{"start":4879.417,"end":4908.155,"text":"委員早早這是昨天我為什麼在院會質詢的我想要了解的是今天美國大選什麼時候會出爐你們有沒有掌握我們兩個經濟咒脈都沒掌握美國大選的結果什麼時候會出爐我們估計還要至少四、五天還要四、五天是不是因為他這次通信投票的比例將近一半"},{"start":4910.066,"end":4930.726,"text":"他時間會跟上次一樣拉得很久那因為這次很焦灼也會跟上次一樣要等最後可能要等到最後一個週出來這是高盛證券對於美國大選四個scenario我想要了解我們行政院對於美國大選的scenario是什麼兩位誰可以回答"},{"start":4935.012,"end":4957.681,"text":"國部長你來講報告委員我想你勇敢的講我都會對我們自己負責的範圍做出scenario對那你對你的經紀人對川普呢如果川普當選昨天劉卓偉說了差異會比較大是不是我們看到了他川普他說"},{"start":4960.393,"end":4983.436,"text":"川普他說台灣偷走我們的晶片是不是?為什麼這個是他?你回答你回答報告委員我想這個命題是他的選舉語言你覺得是選舉語言?他會不會對台灣的晶片刻意重稅?會不會?他說的啊,他在Podcast說的"},{"start":4985.192,"end":5010.441,"text":"台灣對美國來講美國這麼多的Design House所有的生產都是在台灣那麼台灣的影響力是非常大美國的Design House占全球你是說台灣對美國晶片的影響力很大還是我們出口到美國的產值對台灣的經濟影響非常重大這兩回事"},{"start":5014.792,"end":5036.013,"text":"這個報告委員我想這個是很清楚的因為你也是經濟學博士所以你非常清楚這樣的一個結果我們基於這個觀察我認為在半導體這一個部分影響應該不大因為它既存的事實台積電在先進製程是一個人的武林"},{"start":5036.96,"end":5062.231,"text":"那麼20奈米以上的這些傳統製程基本上台灣還是非常具有經驗跟這個市場的競爭能力所以美國的廠商美國的設計廠商佔了70%所以這個是很難去改變的一個事實所以我們雖然有這樣的一個製造的技術"},{"start":5063.171,"end":5068.353,"text":"但是美國的商務部對於台灣就是對於美國的晶片法案台灣等大型晶片廠商他們就是還沒付款是不是"},{"start":5093.444,"end":5117.9,"text":"要等到年底嗎?是不是?那個跟委員報告,台積電現在最新的消息就是它在美國那個廠運作的非常的順暢所以下個月12月份他們會有一個Ceremony這個Ceremony的時候我的預計他們可能會再公告他下一個廠建置的時間所以會不會撥款?"},{"start":5119.947,"end":5146.352,"text":"會不會撥款?美國的晶片法案會不會撥款?對,他會跟這個美國請款因為現在美國那個晶片法案的補助阿阿如果川普大選會不會撥款?那個什麼英特爾的老闆都出來講說我到現在投了300億美金但是他的補助都還沒拿到所以我們有可能也沒有辦法拿到是不是?但是那個錢對台積電來講其實太小"},{"start":5147.783,"end":5152.425,"text":"臺積電即將會達到Milestone,然後量產之後Milestone到達,他就會去清還"},{"start":5171.093,"end":5184.363,"text":"因為這個晶片法是法令除非將來在中參議院會重新修訂或是廢掉它的時候才有可能否則它不會改變它是一個法定它必須依法來進行"},{"start":5185.964,"end":5187.085,"text":"我完全贊同劉主委的這個看法"},{"start":5214.451,"end":5240.449,"text":"你贊同他是不是?我給你看我們的數字我們出口的數字是什麼?中國﹐對中國大陸的﹐他弄錯了啦他做PowerPoint做錯我們對中國大陸還有香港怎麼樣?整個比例雖然已經逐年降低還有35%對於美國呢有17%今年提高到20%"},{"start":5241.67,"end":5251.372,"text":"如果兩邊都增加的情況下那對於臺灣的經濟影響是什麼過去主計總處有說如果大陸的經濟下滑1%的時候對臺灣的經濟影響是0.2%那這樣子的情況下如果美國對大陸可以重稅的時候我們會不會對臺灣的經濟造成影響"},{"start":5270.956,"end":5271.416,"text":"怎樣?"},{"start":5271.416,"end":5272.537,"text":"郭部長你說?"},{"start":5272.537,"end":5280.26,"text":"你怎麼樣?報告委員 我的看法還是一樣就是對台灣的影響是正向的正向的?"},{"start":5280.26,"end":5281.5,"text":"是怎麼樣?"},{"start":5281.5,"end":5287.763,"text":"不會有影響我還有下一張喔 不會有影響嗎?為什麼?"},{"start":5287.763,"end":5300.128,"text":"你說啊 你要有論述啊因為美國會對中國加大的稅金那這個中國的 而第二個就是說科技的這個產品它幾乎啊"},{"start":5300.928,"end":5300.968,"text":"主席"},{"start":5321.937,"end":5335.614,"text":"我們現在因為跟美國經濟非常的很大啦所以現在美國都要求我們不能夠這個民主聯盟的國家不能夠把這個產品賣到蘇俄賣到這個中國"},{"start":5338.578,"end":5339.759,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員及基層員工薪資水準"},{"start":5356.232,"end":5384.374,"text":"跟委員報告其實原來我們在中國跟香港我們最高的時候會將近到48%左右的出口值現在逐年下滑那你可能不知道最近的內卷中國的內卷其實傷到台灣的企業非常的重包括甚至最近低潤也出現這個現象但是隨著美國對這個禁令的加壓反而有助於形成兩個不同的世界對我們是有幫助的可以堵住中國的內卷造成對我們的傷害"},{"start":5385.715,"end":5386.815,"text":"好的,非常感謝謝宜芬委員"},{"start":5416.584,"end":5417.764,"text":"邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":5444.11,"end":5463.06,"text":"部長我想今天有幾個問題請教您最近國營事業換人的幅度還蠻大的部長您這個在國營事業換人的這個過程裡面有跟哪些人討論過討論的時間是多久我們這個您剛才在講是國營事業的高層吧對"},{"start":5470.835,"end":5486.333,"text":"國營事業的總市長、總經理現在換人的幅度是很大的嘛是,我想這個部分牽扯到整個有跟誰討論過嗎?討論的時間是多久?我們大概這個部分大概已經我上任以後"},{"start":5487.93,"end":5515.106,"text":"大概就6月份開始討論是這樣嗎?這個是昨天你們的中友董事長跟總經理交接那部長你沒有去嘛你們的內部的同仁說因為您在開會所以你沒有去參加那由經濟部政次去兼交我要請教就是說中友董事長是什麼時候知道自己要被換?大概兩個月前吧"},{"start":5515.725,"end":5516.166,"text":"10月30日發文給他,11月4日生效。"},{"start":5535.205,"end":5539.748,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":5564.978,"end":5587.373,"text":"這是台堂。台船也是一樣,台船董事長一紙公文告訴鄭文榮你下台就換人。台船總經理更可憐,在台船工作了52年,只剩下10天就要退休了,你一紙公文禮拜五下午一紙公文禮拜一叫人換人走人。"},{"start":5590.568,"end":5615.475,"text":"部長您經營過一個公司啊你看到一個52年的老員工一紙公文叫他立刻滾蛋他還對著台船鞠躬的時候你內心不會感到很難過嗎你知道我看到這張照片我眼淚都掉下來了我不知道我們的政府怎麼了我今天身為一個執政黨的立法委員我很久沒有在這裡怒罵執政黨的官員"},{"start":5617.695,"end":5641.872,"text":"這個政府什麼時候變得這麼殘忍這個政府什麼時候變得這麼不人道這個政府什麼時候變得不懂得什麼叫尊重尊重兩個字很難嗎一個做了這麼久的官員你要換誰我都沒有意見但是我覺得對人的起碼的尊重應該要有吧應該要有吧"},{"start":5646.249,"end":5662.91,"text":"不過董事長您同意我的看法嗎?您過去經營過一個公司,你的公司會這樣換人嗎?或許會,因為你是民間公司。你說換就換,你不想要用這個人說fire就fire。可是一個國家的機器,國家可以這樣換人嗎?"},{"start":5666.175,"end":5682.336,"text":"報告委員我想我們的換人都會尊重這個所謂的這個法律的這個規定你尊重法律的規定但是你沒有尊重個人嘛你說你我沒有說你不能換掉他我講的是尊重兩個字"},{"start":5683.988,"end":5698.447,"text":"二十八號給他一個公文他剩下十天要退休了你多等他十天很難嗎?讓他有尊嚴的退休很難嗎?三十號給他一個公文十一月四號交接只有兩個工作天他連打包都來不及啊"},{"start":5700.523,"end":5703.565,"text":"這些人一輩子奉獻在國家"},{"start":5730.303,"end":5757.342,"text":"部長 其實這個不是只有你們的問題啊盧天寧也是這樣 一紙公文叫人家走路蔡黃郎也是這樣 一紙公文叫人家走路不是只有不是只有你國營會啊那國營會 市長您擔任國營會這麼久我不相信你們過去在處理人事是這樣子處理的你們過去處理人事是這樣處理的嗎我可以請國營市市長"},{"start":5759.841,"end":5778.082,"text":"董事長跟委員報告好我們事實上現在處理大概都是我們收到行政院公文以後我們會給公司有一段安排董事會的時間所以絕對不會是當天我們會等到公司已經把董事會的時間確定出來跟董事長報告怎麼安排以後我們再發公文"},{"start":5778.662,"end":5805.092,"text":"這樣才可以確保公司不會沒有董事長而用代理的方式所以看起來雖然公文可能是前兩天拿到但是原來的董事會跟董事長都已經提前知道否則我們不會安排這個時間因為這樣子如果不把董事會安排好他就可能會有七、八天的時間這個公司是沒有董事長的所以我們現在這個處理方式大概是這樣確定你們是這樣處理嗎?是,不會,對,我們都有先跟那個,市長,我如果再問下去齁你們真的會很難堪啊"},{"start":5805.712,"end":5832.6,"text":"我再問下去真的是打執政黨一個大巴掌很多國營事業我講了我對你用什麼人我沒有意見但我對於你不懂得尊重這件事情我非常有意見我們今天要討論這個這個主席安排的議程要討論這個加薪啊要討論這些東西如果說政府部門自己連基本的尊重都做不到"},{"start":5833.991,"end":5861.01,"text":"你不要跟我談說你的施政會多有效果啦明星都不在啦郭董事長您在當董事長的時候應該不會這樣治理公司吧您說你要把你治理公司那一套拿來治理經濟部您治理公司的時候不會這樣子吧這個是讓我覺得最痛心的地方啊接二連三這一個多月來國營事業的人事汰換"},{"start":5862.554,"end":5888.325,"text":"我必須再一次講我覺得你們對於基本的尊重都沒有我真的看到台船總經理這個照片我真的內心非常非常非常的難過在台船工作了52年竟然被你們一紙公文就這樣子掃地出門你叫台船公司的員工如何對這個公司盡心盡力呢"},{"start":5890.049,"end":5916.927,"text":"你叫中油公司的員工如何對這個公司盡心盡力呢只要一紙公文就可以讓人家滾蛋啊你叫這些人如何為公司賣命呢如果你的從業集團你也是這樣子對待員工的話這些人如何為你的公司賣命這麼簡單的道理嗎你今天要講加薪如果待人不能待薪的話"},{"start":5919.561,"end":5941.749,"text":"這個國家的治理是會很有問題的啊我不知道一個治理企業的部長來到了經濟部之後反而是這樣子對待國營事業的董監事、董事長如此處理國營事業的人士我後面的東西我也不想問了謝謝委員 這個部門我們會深刻檢討我覺得你們最尊重這兩個字 完全不懂是 我們會回去檢討"},{"start":5950.452,"end":5966.038,"text":"謝謝邱營委員來,部長跟市長請回座我們待會張家俊委員執行完之後我們休息7分鐘下一位執行請賴樂隆委員,執行時間6加2好,謝謝召委,請國部長經濟部,國部長"},{"start":5983.763,"end":5990.888,"text":"好,部長,我先請教一下,這個揮打說要傳採購綠電100億度,這個後來應該沒有這件事情吧?揮打採購這個100億度綠電的這個計畫是假的命題。所以是假訊息嘛,對不對?是。被炒作了6天。"},{"start":6006.107,"end":6027.411,"text":"就是從10月29號這個有被立委詢問之後到11月4號經濟部11月3號經濟部去確認過之後並沒有這樣計畫而部長還因為這件事情還做了很多的說明是的所以我們只是還是要再一次的去提醒部長那你有什麼看法"},{"start":6029.462,"end":6052.57,"text":"這個我認為提質詢的委員也沒有錯因為這個事實上這個一百億度由輝達採購的這個事情是由某個廠商他為了炒作股票然後他發布的這個訊息所以委員我認為他也沒有錯只是我就這個命題去了解"},{"start":6053.71,"end":6069.33,"text":"我們如果跟輝達之間啊這個大的世界大的這個客戶我們之間都有聯繫的所以所有的世界的大的廠商要來台灣投資水跟電充分的滿足他們的需求是經濟部的責任我要講一下是我認為有問題啦"},{"start":6071.553,"end":6093.357,"text":"第二你剛剛都已經講過有人要炒作嘛有人要炒作股價的時候那這個時候還有立委配合來做這件事情的炒作沒有查證清楚就問這就已經不恰當了啊部長在這個第一時間我都認為你當時的詢答可能都要再更謹慎一點因為有可能你的詢答變成了大家全部都在跟著配合在做炒作我說那幾天可能全部被的炒作那"},{"start":6093.897,"end":6114.175,"text":"等到了經濟部在確認完經過了五天到六天才確認完事實上我建議部長未來遇到這種的不確定性高度敏感的問題的時候其實應該先保留一下啦因為你到底你也不知是真是假那結果被配合了炒作的時候反倒會造成了這個很大的一些影響而導致經濟部在過了五天六天才去查證我認為這個其實並不恰當"},{"start":6117.238,"end":6135.011,"text":"報告委員我想是這個樣子我是非常明確的知道所以我才回答他經濟部的公告是我們為了得到大家可以認可的資料所以我們再一次發文給回答請他正式的回應我們所以才差了五天這樣"},{"start":6136.171,"end":6161.008,"text":"對,所以我的意思說,未來像這樣的事情其實都具有高度的敏感性的問題的時候我認為其實部長可能必須要再更謹慎處理是,謝謝,謝謝委員指導再來另外,我問一下啦齁,前陣子我看這個臺電的鄭董事長有講到要微調民生電價部長你有提到沒有要漲,這個確定嗎?報告委員,我想這個調整電價的部分還是這個電價,這個審議委員在決定啦"},{"start":6164.05,"end":6179.181,"text":"所以這個臺電的董事長也好或者我們在說明都不應該講調整或不調整這個調整電價是這個電價委員、審議委員他們的這個這個我都同意部長這樣一個說法"},{"start":6180.442,"end":6203.213,"text":"我認為電價的調漲與否有很多專業性的考量也有電價的小組那一塊要尊重那一套制度另外是它也會牽動到整個物價的波動嘛電基本上是物價波動所以我認為這個都是一個很知識體大的事情那都不應該輕易的由官員的口中去做出一些我認為這個但海淀董事長有那樣的期待我是沒有講是因為"},{"start":6204.233,"end":6221.814,"text":"有媒體問我我說就環境來講這個還是要這個審議委員他們同意嘛所以我說我覺得部長這樣的答覆是OK的但是臺電董事長有期待這也能理解啦但是我只是說在這樣的處理上面還是要小心回去以後會要求臺電董事長不要輕易發言"},{"start":6222.795,"end":6247.52,"text":"這樣的問題都要敏感、謹慎、小心有可能都會造成一些不必要的困擾再來我問一下啦那接下來的中油的董事長、方董事長上任就說他的油電要漲他的油要漲啦部長你支持嗎這個因為他有一套機制他必須要根據那個機制去運作不能夠私自解釋那個運作的這個方式"},{"start":6248.63,"end":6266.528,"text":"我還是要再次的提醒所有東西都有一套機制在進行一套機制在走那任何的這樣的東西都可能造成到整個光訊息的出來就造成整個市場上的一些波動了每一個我認為所有的不管是從部長到董事長都必須要再更謹言慎行這件事情因為你出來之後"},{"start":6268.77,"end":6296.582,"text":"還要這個帶物價穩定向政院報告沒錯啊當然是要跟物價要整體思考啊過去產生的油電雙漲對於整個人民對整個物價的影響是多麼大如果你有確定要做的也不是用這樣的方式進行嘛那更何況最後可能都不會動但是有可能這些訊息一出來的時候都已經造成了相當大的一些波動所以我還是希望部長包括也跟所有的這些呃國共營事業的董事長要再三的提醒好不好"},{"start":6297.282,"end":6312.723,"text":"政策思考清楚了決定怎麼動再來講,台水也一直很希望漲啊但台水董事長就知道這短期內有困難嘛就是說所有台說的這些事情都還是希望要謹言慎行它對每一個的物價對每一個整個人民的觀感都會有相當大的影響"},{"start":6315.164,"end":6335.069,"text":"再來我請教一下部長,在大寧埔千春安置的計畫書裡面其實有很具體的提到右側這邊寫到對關懷戶延長到12年,一般戶延長到6年這個部分那過去經濟部想要跟內政部來協調,但是有遇到一些困難那既然已經在我們的計畫書裡面已經直接寫明要做了"},{"start":6335.669,"end":6357.646,"text":"部長,如果內政部那邊涉宅它的遊戲規則沒辦法進行的時候,是不是就經濟部自己來自辦,就不要再拖延這整個的時間?這個我們再找這個內政部來討論你們今早內政部討論過了啦,內政部其實有意見啦,內政部認為它涉宅的制度,它照它制度,它延長它認為有困擾是,我們努力跟內政部來溝通"},{"start":6359.364,"end":6376.224,"text":"給我一個時間兩個禮拜內做出一個決定好不好如果內政部沒辦法答應你的條件的話那就請經濟部自辦可以嗎?因為你的計畫書裡面寫得非常清楚你的計畫書都已經寫在上面了如果內政部無法協助你辦理那經濟部就自辦嘛現在開始準備自辦嘛"},{"start":6376.624,"end":6399.439,"text":"我想在法令的許可之內呢,我們會來...兩個禮拜內給我們具體的答案好不好?如果內政部無法辦,經濟部自辦,部長可以嗎?經濟部事辦,這個我要請示我說的是,這個是由行政院經濟部核定的計畫我再跟部長確認一次,如果內政部沒有要配合,經濟部自辦,可以嗎?"},{"start":6400.615,"end":6411.462,"text":"我們來努力看看不是努力看看,你的計畫書上就是這麼要求的但是我們的計畫書上面必須要內政部能夠同意的他希望內政部做,但是內政部做的時候就是經濟部要做嘛這個計畫書上面已經寫了嘛"},{"start":6415.609,"end":6420.391,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":6439.673,"end":6465.651,"text":"目前已經公告了公告對那月底前來進行環評請部長跟環保署這邊再行溝通好不好環保署好不好月底前要來進行環評的說明好嗎月底前我記住這個部長那也請你到大林埔來親自跟鄉親們說明好嗎月底這個環評的說明他明天要求部長到歷任的部長每次都到王美花部長、沈永林部長都到現場部長自己親自來好嗎"},{"start":6467.029,"end":6492.855,"text":"我把時間這個調整一下月底親自來跟鄉親們說明這件事情好嗎報告委員我月底可能有公務行程在國外那就挪你可以的時間來好嗎可以嗎好不好配合你的時間配合環保環保署跟你的時間親自來到現場說明好不好部長等你喔大臨部等你謝謝謝謝賴部長回座謝謝賴任委員這個"},{"start":6495.325,"end":6513.317,"text":"非常精確的質詢下一位質詢請張家俊委員主席我想請經濟部部長請經濟部部長"},{"start":6522.052,"end":6544.778,"text":"早安部長,最近新聞沸沸揚揚有關於中油董事長被吳裕景拔官,請問您事先知道這件事情嗎?不是拔官啦他說他拒絕參加交接啊,因為他沒有被事前通知,他要被拔官啊可能是有啦"},{"start":6546.919,"end":6567.47,"text":"這個人事是您同意的嗎?人事我同意要往上報的啊那中游4日舉行董事長交接典禮部長沒有出席是什麼原因呢?報告委員所有的這個國營事業啊這個董事長或總經理交接過去都是由次長出席"},{"start":6568.55,"end":6576.556,"text":"目前呢,中油工會的理事長就公開批評您是重電輕油請問部長真的有重電輕油嗎?民視中油的大老闆、大股東欸為什麼他們交接沒有配合你的時間呢?那就是你不在意嘛,你也不是很在意嘛"},{"start":6598.383,"end":6603.28,"text":"我想要知道的是為什麼你不想去?是這個董事長的人選你不滿意嗎?"},{"start":6605.697,"end":6630.95,"text":"我對中油的這一些幹部我都包括你看看中油的事情前幾天上一個禮拜上上一個禮拜我到圓山去挖那個地熱井我也是親自出席啊是啊所以我就問你說為什麼中油這個董事長交接這麼重要你不出席呢報告委員那個慣例都是由次長出席"},{"start":6632.41,"end":6632.691,"text":"我沒有草率發言"},{"start":6655.823,"end":6658.364,"text":"請問您最近又提示代表購買綠電的這個計畫已經成熟了嗎?"},{"start":6683.135,"end":6696.625,"text":"報告委員我想這個我們現在在進行這個可行性評估啦在進行可行性評估那這個是一個世界的潮流也就是說綠電的需求這個是世界的一個需求"},{"start":6697.557,"end":6715.207,"text":"那麼每一個這個國家本席特別去查了一下發現您在產業的時候就想去菲律賓發展漁業了現在您當經濟部長心心念念的也是菲律賓本席還蠻想了解是什麼原因讓你對菲律賓這麼感興趣因為你現在彷彿就是臺菲聯合經濟部長欸報告委員我想這個因為我做國際貿易做很久那麼我在國家之間啊"},{"start":6727.028,"end":6746.581,"text":"每一個這個地區它的資源不會是一樣的所以才會形成國際貿易的這些都是有經濟理論的是當然我同意啊我同意我只是好奇說我們周邊的國家還蠻多的特別喜歡菲律賓是為什麼然後它的資源我在講這個要素資源理論這個是"},{"start":6748.541,"end":6768.865,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":6769.42,"end":6795.789,"text":"我們現在一直在進行中看起來是非常的樂觀那您說像菲律賓購買綠電超過4元就不買這個是您說的嗎我說的那這個是專家計算的是什麼專家可不可以請部長跟大家分享我今天沒有帶資料來所以你也不知道是什麼專家我當然知道是專家我專家的名字是不能夠公告的不會是雲報專家吧"},{"start":6797.669,"end":6820.407,"text":"雲報我在這裡鄭重的跟這個委員以及所有的在這邊的這個貴賓報告經濟部跟雲報只有一個關係他是經濟部來登記的公司但是他也不是經濟部所屬的公司也不是經濟部這個支持的公司雲報是為了炒股票"},{"start":6821.752,"end":6848.74,"text":"而講了很多不應該講的話所以我本席在問你請問這個四塊是包含哪些成本土地成本有包括嗎?資金成本有包括嗎?建制成本有包括嗎?我跟委員報告如果這個地方夠大建制成本平均的建制成本我們都可以看到一塊半"},{"start":6850.825,"end":6853.207,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":6874.381,"end":6891.331,"text":"所以本席在這裡提醒一下部長您說的這些構想其實是非常可能造成國安危機的更重要的是您有可能被前客騙了您知道嗎我們昨天才處理這個國發基金的不當投資調查委員會因為這個國發會投資如新的時候慘賠了10億然後前國發會主委龔明星他就說了"},{"start":6902.78,"end":6905.113,"text":"他直接了當說他是被騙了"},{"start":6906.617,"end":6935.311,"text":"所以你們不是不會被騙捏你千萬不要一股腦的去執行最後被騙了不可能被騙 被騙被騙菲律賓不是專家我是這方面的專家我不可能被騙還是其實你不是被騙我印象深刻您說您是行政院的經濟部部長也就是有就是說是不是您是受到高層指示辦事這件事是不是有高層指示你一定要去推動菲律賓的綠點"},{"start":6936.471,"end":6963.201,"text":"報告委員 這個齁我是根據我的這個專業第二個我認為啦齁這個是看這件事情啊要專家才有辦法來判斷那怎麼說呢所以我比較好奇的是你是不是被騙了還是被逼的沒有 我不被騙也不被逼這個都是我個人的這個這個理論基礎跟我個人的經驗"},{"start":6964.904,"end":6987.182,"text":"來做出來的這樣的建議部長本席曾聽您說過說可以不要做官所以本席在這裡呼籲你既然有這種guards說可以不要做官但千萬不能被框去背黑鍋我們有選擇要做對的事情對國家社會有意義的事情這一句話我留在這裡希望你要深思啊"},{"start":6987.842,"end":7004.869,"text":"那另外呢您又提起說要把我國的這個低階封裝高耗能的石化這個鋼鐵業移到菲律賓請問一下這個參與呂宋走廊這件事情你有跟其他部會溝通過嗎?有跟石化產業溝通過嗎?"},{"start":7006.989,"end":7019.038,"text":"我們只現在在進行可行性評估可行性可以進行了我們就開始進行產業的這個工作所以你們可行性評估沒有過你們就決定核定投資1062億喔?"},{"start":7022.199,"end":7033.029,"text":"你們在蔡英文總統現任的最後一週通過中油新四星投資案為什麼這麼急?連你都不知道原因吧?合訂了1062億那個是在高雄喔"},{"start":7041.278,"end":7043.42,"text":"現在我們要休息,休息時間有7分鐘,休政層休息10分鐘。"},{"start":7411.613,"end":7413.968,"text":"並備質詢。"},{"start":7511.476,"end":7530.808,"text":"一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員一、"},{"start":7667.847,"end":7682.293,"text":"好,官員請回座。來,請介席官員請回座。下午繼續開會,下午執行請張琦開委員。"},{"start":7708.564,"end":7735.54,"text":"請阿郭智輝、郭部長請經濟部部部長回答回台灣社廠是全民的期待嘛我知道你也很努力啦也很努力 像這個事情媒體報導說它要110度這個綠電我經過兩次的質詢我們的重點是在這邊的我看有某些立委或者某些媒體好像故意在扭曲化作重點了"},{"start":7736.454,"end":7752.774,"text":"只有兩個重點嘛前名希望他回來包括民進黨立委在這邊都拜託你啊要促成去他們的縣市設廠啊對不對是對那我們就盡量去幫他這是政府的責任而且是全民的期待第二個裡面牽扯到力電夠不夠嘛所以只有兩件事情"},{"start":7754.209,"end":7768.1,"text":"我那天就說你去聯絡他他到底需要多少綠電進度到哪裡嘛對不對我們把它做清楚把它問清楚做得好目前都做了嘛對不對是謝謝委員指導對這個是雙贏很好那現在就繼續要幫忙他他現在是要回來設廠對不對是他綠電該買的也買了"},{"start":7770.582,"end":7794.473,"text":"至於剛剛講到什麼銀包去炒股票我看你用很嚴厲的言辭譴責嘛我相信有人在炒股票全民都是譴責的好不好可是請不要有人話錯重點最重要的如果有媒體報導那本來我們就爭取他要回來的他到底有什麼困難有需要綠電本來就把它查清楚我覺得經濟部到目前做得很好謝謝委員我們繼續努力接下來要不要談一個最近非常熱門的"},{"start":7796.51,"end":7821.915,"text":"台研力電的掏空案也是一個很嚴重的一個弊案我要提醒部長的雖然現在國營事業都在換你看剛剛大家問你中友董事長的問題台研力能掏空案這個問題國營事業不要變成掏空連連特別是不要像台研力能變成詐騙集團這個非常要不得部長我先問你一個台研力能啊"},{"start":7823.609,"end":7841.572,"text":"他光是由他兒子去成立這個土地開發然後找了一堆綠油油他自己的廠商去成立了開發公司鴻輝國際跟兆陽開發勾結之後光是這兩家集中的土地開發說起了八億的暴利"},{"start":7842.659,"end":7866.495,"text":"另外,用這個指定廠商的方式,左手換右手,把我們國營事業的錢掏到利優惹的手上去,又是3億台元喔,國營事業喔,損失就11億人民的納稅錢損失11億,我要問你一條這件事情第一個,你們沒做行政處分第二個更重要的,怎麼避免國營事業的錢被掏空你有這上面注意,這是檢討的"},{"start":7869.784,"end":7897.615,"text":"這個回答這個委員的這個問題這個我們有沒有做行政處分我們是我們做調查的也送送檢調這個所以這個這個比行政處分更嚴厲所以跟委員報告這第一題第二題我們如果防止這個光電這個這樣的弊病再度產生的話這個行政院院長有交代我們經濟部、法務部、農業部"},{"start":7899.724,"end":7917.725,"text":"要成立一個平台公開、公正的來跟所有的廠商或者是所有的地主來做一些公開的協商所以任何的人都可以檢舉如果有再發生這個問題"},{"start":7920.516,"end":7947.335,"text":"行政院院長的指示就是絕不放寬、寬容這件事情不允許這個事情再度發生所以不允許再發生,第一個一定要防備嘛因為發生了就要檢討,包括送檢調查證那現在很重要的我這段時間接到很多的陳情我們的農漁民受到很大的傷害還有跟我們國營事業、台研的下包廠商、合作廠商喔"},{"start":7950.572,"end":7974.183,"text":"有些人都幾乎是破產了,那個是幾千萬的錢進去了我跟部長講一下他們陳情的內容第一個,臺原力能去跟我們農漁民還有這一些土地、這個地主一共簽了很多千年,都已經是7年前,很多是7年前或者最近7年以來簽的這個約結果因為臺原力能後來都沒有去開發,很多都沒有開發,或者開發到一半現在出現了兩個很大的問題"},{"start":7976.001,"end":8002.55,"text":"那些地主該拿到的錢也沒有拿到第二、最可憐的其實這兩件事最可憐的就是臺南跟嘉義這些暗場本來它是榮與敏在那邊可能有養殖一頁嘛現在也沒辦法沒辦法連生計都出問題了所以這兩個現在第一個就是這個工程現在看起來好像變成爛尾樓變成爛尾樓所以有兩個部分現在要趕快去幫忙了我請部長、經濟部要趕快去處理就是這個工程一直延宕在那邊"},{"start":8003.732,"end":8023.368,"text":"然後講他剩下的就是詐騙集團他自己跟人家開發完之後開發的一半就留在那邊了那農藝林自己本來以這個為生對不對大家看一下這上個圖來我們跳回去上個圖給部長看一下這就是我家的議席你看這本來是市區的地方喔結果現在你看蓋了一半就丟在那裡了電也沒有發電"},{"start":8024.673,"end":8037.732,"text":"第二個農業移民的生計就受影響了地主也來埋怨你當初跟我這個租去的時候國營事業你要來租我的土地我們高興啊結果要兩公頃才可以開發嘛沒有開發完他也在那邊了那那個工程的做了一半"},{"start":8038.872,"end":8043.695,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":8068.413,"end":8072.857,"text":"現在離岸風電這個開發離岸風電開發現在不只台積電不願意買電喔買太貴嘛 對不對然後現在一度電是6塊錢所以現在政府想到一個辦法"},{"start":8089.67,"end":8115.27,"text":"我們自己要成立一個買電這個平臺現在政府找了中鋼、中華電信就是我們的國營事業這些換工股要去成立一個售電公司你要負責變成買電喔你明明外面一度賣6電就想整個地方買買政府你現在去那只有兩種結果嘛你買過來之後你自己用買6塊就是太貴了這是一個問題對不對第二種你要去賣電嘛"},{"start":8116.701,"end":8118.062,"text":"報告委員這個部分我們是考慮到當初他們在綠電買賣一千要二十年"},{"start":8134.52,"end":8162.402,"text":"二十年而且再買到一定的價格那對一些這個小的用綠電店戶比較不公平他沒有辦法一邊說一定要賣二十年嘛所以我們去成立這樣子的一個公司的目的是在服務那個小的綠電用戶讓他說不會被人家綁住二十年我們成立這個公司你欠多少要多少我就賣你多少第二個價格不可能高"},{"start":8163.861,"end":8188.669,"text":"我們就是比較低的價格來轉售這樣我聽你現在賣不出來就是因為一套賣六塊啊你說你要去買比較便宜你有把握可以買到一定是便宜所以我們先下第一個我們結論第一個不能買太貴的你說一度六塊要去買然後講五塊都已經過高了台積電三塊多台積電就不買啊我們用台積電的標準你如果到時候買不能夠買比台積電去買的貴好不好這是第一個第一台積電因為他是買"},{"start":8189.249,"end":8190.77,"text":"邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":8206.892,"end":8225.709,"text":"所以你畫一條線,你很清楚跟民眾講,你要去買電,你稅貴要再多少,不能夠比這個高?我們當然是會讓這個,因為其實報告委員,他如果選舉他就不會買啊就不會買,現在就是因為人家沒要買啊,現在政府要買,好第一個,所以我們下一個定論啦"},{"start":8226.489,"end":8246.602,"text":"不能買太貴部長對不對不能買太貴第一個你現在去考慮一下這會不會因為這樣子中鋼的錢中鋼要花比較多的錢這就是一種掏空喔賺到的錢是那些那些廠商對不對所以我們下兩個結論第一個不能買太貴第二個你現在回去檢討就我的了解是中鋼到目前他們都在抗拒嘛"},{"start":8247.142,"end":8250.806,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":8266.924,"end":8287.349,"text":"董事,這是所有人去買股票的,他們如果沒有通過他們通過,董事會通過同意的。抱歉,我再問另外一個問題比較重要,因為這個是牽扯到臺電的緣故,我問一個對嗎事情,因為我們今天,抱歉抱歉,馬上好,馬上好,因為是一個低薪的問題,我馬上好,只有談一個事情,保證我問一下事情,這段時間,欸,主席我問一個,因為訪台聽,我知道,你好,你好,我們幫"},{"start":8290.39,"end":8295.994,"text":"臺電的基層員工在反映一個很重要的事情臺電的員工我們是肯定他們很辛苦很努力的可是他們講了兩個事情有沒有超時工作的問題第二個更重要的你知道嗎"},{"start":8315.094,"end":8325.998,"text":"當縣市長已經宣布說颱風了可是當地的處長喔臺電當地的處長如果沒有宣布他是加班的話他去搶修是沒有颱風天的這個假期你知道他們去爬颱風天去搶修的時候爬電線桿一個小時加多少錢"},{"start":8334.043,"end":8358.861,"text":"謝謝 明天還有議程 明天還可以問才105塊 我跟你講 這個真的太少了又危險 錢又少所以第一個就是以後不要等處長宣布以後 以後只要是颱風天 縣市長宣布就是一個第二個 他們危險加急好不好 不要只有105塊要去幫他們好不好好 部長 謝謝好 部長請回座 其他官員請回座下一位質詢請鄭 鄭前委員"},{"start":8371.373,"end":8372.615,"text":"呃主席好我想請一下郭部長請經濟部部長"},{"start":8378.052,"end":8403.438,"text":"委員好部長好今天我們談的其實是那個低薪的問題不過我想說這跟低薪問題有關係還是跟國營事業這個部分有關那因為大家剛剛都在關心國營事業的一個調度那我剛剛發現你這邊在提到說國營事業部分的時候你提到說其實你知道可是你要往上沉所以我在想說是不是國營事業這當中可能會有很多綠油油的部分其實你可能也管不了"},{"start":8404.958,"end":8420.945,"text":"所以你就只能扮演一個過場的一個角色,就讓該層的往上層,然後所以你也不太想去管這個事情,部長?報告委員,因為我進公門,進來這個政府服務啊,時間比較短,所以我真的沒有辦法在短時間裡面"},{"start":8422.466,"end":8437.074,"text":"理解這個所有的運作那這個國營人士的這個移動這個是一定的制度在運作所以我國營司的司長是他的主管單位部長我在想說其實因為我認為你從"},{"start":8438.075,"end":8454.787,"text":"真的從企業界來在企業界也有一定的表現所以我其實一直很期待就企業界的經驗能夠帶給經濟部不一樣的一個表現那我這邊我想問一個台研的問題因為台研你知道台研持有台研綠人多少的股份你知道嗎?這個60%只有60%嗎?"},{"start":8462.602,"end":8467.126,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":8489.574,"end":8515.198,"text":"我是不是請國營師來回答這個問題?沒關係,其實你可以直接回答,這個部分用檢調去做處理,這個我認同我只是在想說對於這個國營企業單位當中這麼多綠油油的狀態的時候你這邊能夠發揮多少的影響力我希望你針對在原本企業界當中內機內控的一個能力能夠真的在國營企業當中的時候能夠好好地把它發揮下來,好不好?"},{"start":8515.578,"end":8543.927,"text":"好的我會根據這個委員的這個指示來進行OK那我想說因為我們今天在講這部分那其實坦白說我對於你的那個直率發言我都把它認為是一個很企業界的一個方式那事實上比方說坦白說很多委員覺得你的發言當中的時候呢也許在部長這個角色當中可能還不夠的一個謹慎那我對你有期待所以我希望你"},{"start":8544.787,"end":8556.8,"text":"在承諾事情當中的時候不一定要這麼樣的直率包括說你當時承諾大家比方說如果補助台電的錢下來之後如果在"},{"start":8558.223,"end":8558.903,"text":"進行報告：一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":8577.495,"end":8606.782,"text":"你剛剛直接講出來了我直接把它記錄下來是嘛你講了嘛對不對那針對雲報為了炒股講了不是的話你會要求金管會針對雲報的這個不適當的動作去做一些相關的一個監督嗎會會是不是是OK所以你下了我們質詢之後你就會要求金管會這邊針對雲報的不適當的發言去做一些相關的一個監督的動作因為它這個是六月的發言是"},{"start":8607.799,"end":8625.091,"text":"所以所以現在不知道有沒有還有沒有這個這個可以勾結的這個所以你還會再繼續往下去要求金管會去做類似的動作嗎因為你剛剛回答的很具體嘛我沒有認為你是草率的發言我認為你是很直率很企業界的發言是"},{"start":8626.592,"end":8650.95,"text":"那如果這樣的話我們就開始回到我們今天要特別講到低薪的問題因為我看了那個主計處的統計台灣的受僱勞工大概有800多萬人那麼製造業大概300多萬然後那個服務業大概500多萬那其中大概算是比較薪水好一點的製造業裡面大概只有ICT的產業然後大概有100多萬人左右"},{"start":8651.63,"end":8663.897,"text":"那麼在服務業當中的時候金融保險證券、醫療保健、運輸倉儲稍微高一點大概也在100多萬人就表示在台灣當中的時候呢處在就是"},{"start":8665.407,"end":8689.83,"text":"低薪的人非常非常的多我給部長一個簡單的數字在製造業當中有大概200萬製造業勞工平均薪資都在中位數51.8萬元以下部長你知道這個數字嗎?是那麼在整個服務業裡面的時候很多的產業他們的平均薪資只比基本工資高大概1萬元左右你也知道這個數字對不對?是"},{"start":8691.251,"end":8708.992,"text":"那我想問因為我們整個立法院議員中心提到我們國內心只有3D的一個現象第一個是國內生產GDP的分配給受僱人員比例低於每日韓這是第一D第二D的部分就是我們"},{"start":8710.305,"end":8725.554,"text":"低於平均薪資的勞工比例逐年增加這是第二低的部分第三低的部分是加薪的幅度低於通貨膨脹的一個幅度那這三低的部分的時候我想針對第一個部分就是"},{"start":8726.494,"end":8746.049,"text":"就是我們GDP當中分配給就是受僱者的一個比例我們用117年的數字跟107年的數字我們發現它是逐年的一個下降那麼針對這個部分的時候我想問一下部長你這邊有沒有具體的方式可以來逆轉這樣子的一個趨勢"},{"start":8747.31,"end":8764.215,"text":"報告委員 有 我們從兩個一個就是對企業從稅的部分來提高他有這個能力來加薪那這裡面重點就是說我們其實對這些比較小微的公司如果你加薪"},{"start":8764.955,"end":8779.727,"text":"如果你接受我們的輔導而賺錢你必須要加薪OK好那我想問一下因為我們中小企業發展條例36-2條的時候上半年的時候我們有修法執法什麼時候出來你沒有執法你沒有辦法真正去落實啊"},{"start":8781.77,"end":8807.959,"text":"報告委員,執法已經修好了,會在11月底開始11月底會正式實施對不對?11月底11月底嘛對不對?OK喔好,因為我在想說當我們修了中小企業發展條例36之2條之後我們需要讓它落實下來那我想問一下以目前符合我們中小企業發展條例36之2當中的時候我們中小企業163萬家當中有多少家可以適用?多少?"},{"start":8811.96,"end":8836.793,"text":"我講這個執法上面也會有名列部長我簡單跟你講一下因為我們目前有163萬家中小企業大概有30萬家是用查賬申報的方式有133萬家是用書審申報的方式只有用查賬申報的方式可以適用就表示我們有163萬家中小企業當中還有133萬家是沒辦法去適用這個部分的所以我本席希望經濟部這邊的時候針對"},{"start":8839.995,"end":8865.018,"text":"之後如果企業加薪應該要得到更多的一個鼓勵包括說政府的各項補助應該要把企業加薪當作參考的一個項目然後針對有研發創新抵稅的部分還有工業期進駐等等的部分都要把就是加薪當作經濟部在評估當中的一個要件可不可以是可以可以齁"},{"start":8867.299,"end":8879.247,"text":"謝謝部長那我想說針對這個低薪的部分我再問一個狀態中小企業白皮書你簽了這個序沒有?因為每年年底都有中小企業白皮書"},{"start":8880.612,"end":8905.519,"text":"已經同意了那準備要復印了所以你也已經簽了對不對因為中小企業那個按照2023年當中有一個很特殊的一個狀態就是因為他55歲以上的就業人口升高這是好事壯世代的發展這是好事可是對於受僱員工的平均月薪比前一年降低一千元降低一千元也就算了"},{"start":8905.839,"end":8928.164,"text":"重點是他們的工時還多出了3.6個小時針對這個部分我希望經濟部這邊針對這個部分給本席一個詳細的分析報告好謝謝部長謝謝謝謝曾政賢委員部長、列席官員請回座好消費資訊請楊瓊英委員"},{"start":8935.66,"end":8936.42,"text":"經濟部部長郭文貴議員"},{"start":8944.85,"end":8972.708,"text":"是部長好我們今天呢稍微排了這個低薪的議題關注青年跟基層我非常的認同那所以我在這個專訪看到專訪的記錄裡頭當你接上部長的時候你接受專訪你曾經說你看到薪水啊你嚇了一跳你嚇了一跳怎麼那麼少啊是不是少一個零是嗎"},{"start":8974.713,"end":8990.399,"text":"是的是的那所以呢你最能夠了解我們整個低薪的狀態到底要怎麼去做所以本席要跟你討論的是我們台灣現在目前面臨的貧富差距非常的大"},{"start":8990.979,"end":9014.834,"text":"尤其我們一定要支持我們的青年人以及在基層低薪的這個問題政府有責任一定要去好好的把它做規劃因為這個會影響到整個流財的一個穩定性跟勞動力的一個條件那整個社會的公平跟產業競爭力這些的面向都必須由政府來作為整體性的多項因應的這個方案"},{"start":9017.676,"end":9025.281,"text":"說比如說研擬修正就業服務法那將這個薪資的部分來揭露這個門檻由現行的4萬提升到5萬也有將研議將一定的薪資門檻那麼納入在上市櫃的這個公司申請許可核准審核最重要的標準是不是"},{"start":9040.931,"end":9062.147,"text":"是就是說從源頭來做規劃那本席非常的肯定這樣的態度但是我要主張的是更應該要關注到我們基層員工的心情才不會像你拿到的薪水單嚇了一跳是不是少了一個零所以我在這邊要請教針對於公司法第2"},{"start":9065.43,"end":9086.572,"text":"第235條之一的條文要來進行修正你們有沒有這個方向也就是希望能夠達到真正幫助在基層加薪的效果你們有沒有這樣言理我也要請國防會主委也一併上來回答針對於公司法第235條之一的條文有沒有言理請教"},{"start":9088.324,"end":9109.377,"text":"我想我們都會按照這個現行公司法的規定那在這個分派酬勞的時候這是現行但是不足以應對我們的基層所以會不會修公司法的第235條之一的條文真正落實來照顧基層"},{"start":9110.54,"end":9111.421,"text":"的心情,有沒有這個預計?"},{"start":9125.56,"end":9149.049,"text":"本期就開始提案我們也這一屆也會提案再進來但是這委員的版本是不夠的所以我首先要請我謝謝郭部長你願意要將公司法的第235條之一我們要提出來做討論真正的怎麼樣落實在我們的基層的員工薪資那我也請那個國防會主委您的回答呢 您的立場"},{"start":9151.089,"end":9171.798,"text":"公司法是由經濟部的全責啦那基本上我們會支持經濟部的決定支持啊好那我們實質來討論部長你是不是會納入公司應將章程明定呢以當年度獲利狀況的定額或者是比例來分配給員工的酬勞以及調整基層員工的薪資"},{"start":9174.945,"end":9185.843,"text":"不得低於消費者物價指數年增率調整的幅度或者是不得低於同業利潤同業利潤的平均加薪比例會不會認同"},{"start":9187.318,"end":9190.121,"text":"這個我們來考慮一下因為它有點困難每一個行業不一樣啊對 所以本席特別提出啊你不得低於消費者的物價指數年增率調整啊本席只是跟你討論是不是也將這個"},{"start":9206.917,"end":9206.957,"text":"主席"},{"start":9222.39,"end":9250.876,"text":"你的就業人數也將近有913萬2千人中小企業的加數是163萬所以我們沒有理由不照顧他們照顧他們等於就是照顧到我們的基層員工所以剛剛所講的這三項也就是公書法的第236條之一235條之一我們行政部門認為必須要做整體性的去考量其中最重要的也就是員工酬勞以及他"},{"start":9251.656,"end":9270.364,"text":"及公司所得利潤的一個比例那麼我們應該提出來做整體性的一個討論而且不得低於消費者物價指數年增率的一個調整或者是不得低於同月平均加薪的比例這一些都是得到"},{"start":9271.044,"end":9274.567,"text":"經濟部和國防會認同必須拿出來做檢討所以本席請教部長你們檢討多久時間你們可以有方案出來這個我們回去可能主要還是要跟經管會討論你們大概有多久時間可以給我一個方案可以控制的範圍下來做"},{"start":9290.2,"end":9298.023,"text":"我想這個因為跨部門我想要三個月吧好 那麼我們就promise三個月的時間那麼你們將你們的方案提出那麼我們也會提出這個委員版的這個235條之一大家好好實務的來照顧我們真正的這個員工的低薪的問題"},{"start":9310.487,"end":9324.212,"text":"那接下來本期要跟你討論的也就是中小企業我經常跟您說的這個數字告訴你98%企業佔比率那所以我們這些中小企業您更應該要支持他們綠電的獲得是嗎"},{"start":9327.213,"end":9353.884,"text":"你點頭齁,所以因為之前您說過要給回答,我也很支持請說明沒有啦,那個100億度,我剛才已經講過,那是假的命題啦假的命題啦,這就說得清楚了,保證命題來自產業我剛才有跟那個委員齁,我們都有溝通過啦所以這是沒有用的事情,你也說明了齁那個回答也跟我們證明了,就是他沒有要買這麼多的這個那他要買多少?"},{"start":9355.06,"end":9355.38,"text":"因為中小企業的銷售總額超過了28兆"},{"start":9373.442,"end":9378.767,"text":"他的占比超過了五成出口總額3.6兆所以在這種年增率每一年超過7%你看那台灣人我怕病所以政府更有責任也有義務要好好的照顧他們對不對因為他們是台灣經濟最重要的基礎的一個重要基石所以未來我們很重要的就是挑戰"},{"start":9396.525,"end":9422.138,"text":"這一個中小企業政府如何去輔導他們如何去輔導他們這個是非常重要那剛剛我們在前兩次呢本席也跟你討論也跟國防會主委討論過也就是112年去年第四季台電推動的相關適合中小企業他們有一個專案小額的綠電商品那麼他們的申請只有126家得標他的得標量只有643萬這個這個這個這個"},{"start":9427.52,"end":9451.125,"text":"那這樣的條件我們知道量不夠加速也不夠所以本期要請教你要怎麼樣去輔導我們整個中小企業可以獲得綠電那麼或許是結合我們整個中小企業的團體組織來合辦活動來發揮它的作效啊要不然你一年度只有一百二十六家得標那這個這個太少了啦太少了改變形態改變形態那請教部長"},{"start":9454.646,"end":9467.73,"text":"滿足他們那改變形態你的方案要怎麼做方案我們都有討論都有討論什麼時候可以給本席我們要告訴我們的中小企業啊你這個數字拿出來112年拿出來不會看的啊 難看啊年底以前現在11月嘛那就在12月底以前拿出怎麼樣對我們中小企業協助綠電的方式來跟我們來好好的來討論對不對最後一分鐘好不好最後請教喔"},{"start":9482.995,"end":9484.457,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":9502.398,"end":9503.118,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":9531.694,"end":9533.334,"text":"主席首先有請國安會國安會的牛主委"},{"start":9567.138,"end":9590.444,"text":"劉卓偉今天主要是討論青年低薪的一個問題這是很頭痛還是很複雜的問題尤其你是在經營以前顧問公司裡面當最大的都是人家請教你你從民間到政府機關你有沒有發覺這個問題很嚴重這個我有感受到"},{"start":9596.627,"end":9606.56,"text":"還有我有感受到您以前是高高在上都是上司公司來請教你大概都沒有跟你談到基層員工管理各方面的問題"},{"start":9608.514,"end":9631.755,"text":"今天青年低薪的時候為什麼會造成這樣的一個環境?你有沒有仔細稍微研究一下?這個有你告訴我,外營在哪裡?我們其實有去研究它是有幾個部分一個是企業有能力不願意加薪另外一種是"},{"start":9633.436,"end":9656.849,"text":"沒有能力齁,他有意願也沒用,然後呢沒意願也有,那我...然後,這裡面再分出來齁,他所待的產業跟公司賺不賺錢,公司沒賺錢是沒辦法的齁,再來就是,區域也是一個問題啦。現在我分到很多傳染產業怎麼講,那些老一輩啦,我說啊你不能賺錢怎麼賺,我說打平就好。"},{"start":9657.529,"end":9686.581,"text":"那些老員工跟我幾十年了我只要把他阿倫道退休我要把工廠關掉所以大家思想你們常常在說企業高台灣人很有感情的企業高要讓大家賺錢給別人工會越來越好地所以我覺得一些觀念還是要改變其實青年的低薪就是我們政策的錯誤我們政策的錯誤在哪裡?選舉所導致的一個絕望"},{"start":9687.85,"end":9700.263,"text":"我們以前為了名聲,所以說什麼萬般皆下平,唯有獨自高,大家就拚命設立起來,大家都在海上比價,以前在海上救。"},{"start":9701.598,"end":9702.439,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":9730.018,"end":9731.179,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員及基層員工薪資水準。"},{"start":9756.821,"end":9784.609,"text":"今天這個小確幸,帶來我們很多整個政策的一個錯誤。在第三點,你起了改過來,我們補充了才知道,台灣人很會抬價小,一比市場台灣太小,一來這邊比較的時候價格就一直殺來殺去,本來有優秀的東西,非常優質的公司抬來抬價小,所以這裡面參加了一種非常多的因素。"},{"start":9785.689,"end":9811.726,"text":"所以我在這,您現在是執政者,您是政治家,應該你們要從頭徹底跟台灣人所有講,包括總統,不要為了選票。其實這個世界很無情的,我相信您站出來,贏則亂,敗則苦。我們一定要改變這樣的觀念,你才有辦法把這低薪的制度弄好。"},{"start":9812.728,"end":9840.183,"text":"現在很多人,你說找人,什麼是有希望的產業,什麼是未來的產業,什麼是傳統產業裡面要怎樣來,現在水電工很強,水電工要做都要幾十萬,十幾萬,現在連電燃工,如果你好了二三十萬,現在都找不到人,因為我們把以前技職、教育、信念的一批的人才全部不見了,"},{"start":9841.584,"end":9844.287,"text":"因應對策．暨如何促進企業提升青年及基層員工薪資水準。"},{"start":9859.648,"end":9862.63,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":9882.441,"end":9908.095,"text":"你本來信任這個基本要素,我們要請外來的移工,他去做領班,薪水才管得起來。所以你沒有討論今天是以實役,大家都在說有的沒的。我真的很難過。我不曉得執委你怎麼想法。部長在校,你一起就出來了,你知道嗎?你剛才是怎麼變的,我是討論。這個沒有根本改造的結果,你沒有辦法改變。"},{"start":9909.156,"end":9929.054,"text":"你要未雨綢繆,你們要有敢說,未來幾個企業裡面,我們可能什麼最忒樂,你就從這樣子下去嘛。混人家人,雖然外來的移工把台灣人做成外來移工的領頭者帶著去,到整個世界都能走遍,這是我的看法。"},{"start":9934.419,"end":9947.812,"text":"其實我們有整理了一個八大策略那其中一個跟您講的是很像的現在狀況是其實你剛剛講焊接工二、三十萬的確我們也看到外面現在資深技術勞工可以到18萬、19萬一個月還請不到人"},{"start":9950.254,"end":9974.667,"text":"但是問題是就有一些人在他的能力上面並不匹配你說的啦,就是高高在讀學歷太高父母不願意小孩子去碰觸這個你一定要跟他們說嘛,我們不能感覺表面好我相信你們都是拿陪伴啊出來,拿到這安若地拚到不想你就為代拚嘛我們的條件不一樣,我們要講出我們自己所面臨環境,我們要接受挑戰"},{"start":9975.868,"end":9999.43,"text":"您說的那樣,黃金生說,現在不是用走的,要用跑的嘛。這時代沒有什麼,你應該好好真正的提示幾個,說我整個行業,我欠人,欠人,說不用怕,把它變成一個領工。要先懂、要先做,再來帶一批人啦。我的看法是怎麼樣,你跟安娜說、提高那些,現在出大家買不去耶。"},{"start":10000.831,"end":10023.142,"text":"我真的講,難怪他們新會議了。你要創造希望,給他創造未來啊。你是資訊顧問,大家要跟你請教。我真的講,要徹底的改造。真的愛台灣是這樣愛的。不是用政治口號愛的。你們起來,我相信你們要講實話。真正的跟總統報告。"},{"start":10024.287,"end":10041.273,"text":"要做大事的人是這樣做的我們兩個看的一樣我找個時間提我那八項我們兩個跟你討論一下我們一起把它再延伸一下你們兩個現在是最熱門人物提出的idea點子最多希望能很踏實"},{"start":10042.373,"end":10061.031,"text":"去啊蓋啊,不踏實做不出程序啊。像我們董事長的從業以前小公司這樣做出來也很不簡單。這是一步一腳印,這是真夠煎熬跟折磨出來的捏。部長您談談您的看法。我真的講啊,沒說這些啦。"},{"start":10061.852,"end":10064.917,"text":"我國青年低薪成因檢討及因應對策．暨如何促進企業提升青年及基層員工"},{"start":10074.093,"end":10074.533,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長："},{"start":10103.7,"end":10119.813,"text":"好,謝謝陳常委員。語重心長的質詢,憂國憂民的精神令人感佩。請部長跟主委先回座。著實令人感動跟感佩。現在休息三分鐘。"},{"start":10134.316,"end":10138.759,"text":"我國青年低薪成因檢討及因應對策，暨如何促進企業提升青年及基層員工資水準。"},{"start":10160.35,"end":10166.357,"text":"我國青年低薪成因檢討及因應對策．暨如何促進企業提升青年及基層員工資水準。"},{"start":10179.552,"end":10181.693,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員及經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":10208.429,"end":10211.973,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員及經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":10227.64,"end":10229.363,"text":"主任是面對自動化社會的問題。"},{"start":10244.114,"end":10247.597,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員及基層員工薪資水準"},{"start":10264.239,"end":10264.62,"text":"對﹐現在﹐現在﹐現在﹐對﹐對﹐對﹐對﹐"},{"start":10288.524,"end":10305.828,"text":"對﹚"},{"start":10343.681,"end":10347.303,"text":"好,列席官員請就座我們繼續開會"},{"start":10349.392,"end":10368.16,"text":"下一位質詢請鄭天才委員主席、各位委員、有請國發會主委、這個勞動部、還有教育部青年發展署"},{"start":10377.779,"end":10402.79,"text":"教育部青發署陳署長各位好這個委員早國發會有人力發展處人力發展處但我先引用這個教育部的青年發展署的組織法這個長理的事項青年發展政策青年生涯發展規劃青年職場體驗很多"},{"start":10406.681,"end":10434.106,"text":"這個如果你們在一部青年發展署或是國發會你們去看這個青年發展署他們的預算的編列或是他們實際的每一年辦的事情運作就會發現跟我們今天的主題跟我們今天的主題是比較欠缺我是從這樣"},{"start":10436.007,"end":10454.922,"text":"當然這個青年發展組成立很久了,102年6月19號這個組織法就通過就開始成立了。那我們看教育部的報告裡面,他提到是勞動部整合了這個相關的部會,包括國發會、經濟部。"},{"start":10459.737,"end":10484.98,"text":"針對這個：而且一直到108年去年發展署102年就成立了102年一到108年當然還是要謝謝勞動部這個就是行政院整合了這些相關的部會投資青年就業方案108開始然後這個1、2又是第二期第二期"},{"start":10486.038,"end":10503.851,"text":"在這樣的一個情形之下我們看我們整個失業率失業率都是在百分之四點多一直往下降現在三點多了現在三點多三點四三點四對不對三點四"},{"start":10506.397,"end":10525.295,"text":"但是我們的青年失業率百分之八這是一百一十二年青年的失業率百分之八這個相關的理由當然我們看薪資也是一樣都很低薪資都很低這個"},{"start":10528.632,"end":10556.089,"text":"教育部的說明：青年低薪成因青年因出入職場工作經驗、年資、技能不足或未充分就業所以這個部分這個因為教育部青年署就在教育部那你怎麼樣去把這些原因然後去跟高教師高教師"},{"start":10557.766,"end":10583.476,"text":"來去協調怎麼樣去協調產業包括各大學這個部分都是要去聯貫、去落實、去推動我今天沒有引用這個國發會的資料最主要就是說國發會基於一個統合的一個"},{"start":10584.741,"end":10602.446,"text":"及經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會"},{"start":10605.109,"end":10622.322,"text":"加強這些相關的無論是科系、大學或是跟產業去一個一個去結合去推動都是需要這個去加強的部分這個主委你認為呢?"},{"start":10625.501,"end":10650.832,"text":"委員提的是對的那我們其實除了這個以外我們也在嘗試協助青年轉型據說文科的可能他如果希望改變我們其實現在也有教育部在推動STAND的方案另外我們之前也跟勞動部長討論了就希望協助一些青年到了職場上還是可以有機會斜槓跟轉型"},{"start":10652.953,"end":10676.514,"text":"另外還有一個區域的問題在成鄉的差距我們也嘗試要縮減所以我們現在透過產業園區的規劃也正在希望平衡成鄉第二個是加速交通的建設讓青年可以比較能夠到移動的比較方便可以找到比較好的就業機會這幾個角度我們其實都在試著去改變它"},{"start":10678.075,"end":10698.105,"text":"另外我們也試著去要求在未來在IPO就是要申請上市的企業他必須要有一定的平均薪資做標準等等我們都在改善那包括我們現在連本會我們都改了我們直接就要比最低工資高像我們已經調到3萬1200塊了我們都有在積極的去做改變第一個當然要先解決失業率"},{"start":10705.89,"end":10707.531,"text":"進行報告：一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":10721.577,"end":10746.426,"text":"四點多將近百分之五所以這個部分是要去首先要去解決的部分然後呢這個低薪的成因知道了怎麼樣去剛我已經講了我就不再重複了勞動部的報告提升最低工資就是基本工資了已經連續九年調升連續九年調升"},{"start":10750.307,"end":10778.915,"text":"總調幅近42.9%這樣的一個基本工資調薪每一次基本工資調薪我就會想到底企業會配合基本工資調薪除了最低薪的職員或是員工之外其他的"},{"start":10780.475,"end":10795.082,"text":"已經高於基本工資的他是不是會跟著調我們現在沒有機制 有機制嗎有沒有只能欠只能呼籲目前好像就只有呼籲這勞動部"},{"start":10800.081,"end":10825.547,"text":"現在只有呼籲希望能夠配合調心勞工的部分因為基本上來講我們現在的基本工資調整來講第一個我們先看整個消費物價指數然後去做一個整理性的考量之後那大概現在可以看得到就是我們的基本工它是照顧到邊際勞工但是我們也希望企業能夠分任給員工所以基本上我們現在開始也跟經管要合作然後包含到以後將來它的"},{"start":10827.307,"end":10849.259,"text":"非主管職的全職員工的薪資變動比然後那男女工資的差別的距離的部分我們都希望能夠在我們的公司治理報告書上面能夠呈現出來那也能夠讓大家看得到我想這是我們在做的問題所以主委包括我們今天沒有請他上來的經濟部或是勞動部"},{"start":10853.537,"end":10874.039,"text":"教育部、勞動部當然最重要怎麼樣在相關的法律有沒有可能就像軍公教對不對條薪的時候不是只有最基層的不是最低薪的條全部都條"},{"start":10875.62,"end":10885.037,"text":"從最低薪的職員、二職等、書記一直到最高的所以這個部分是要去推動甚至可能要立法"},{"start":10885.816,"end":10886.956,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":10915.847,"end":10918.97,"text":"下一位質詢請蔡議員今天上午的質詢到12點截止下午我們2點半再繼續開會好 謝謝"},{"start":10943.666,"end":10960.795,"text":"是不是有請我們經濟部部長經濟部部部長委員好部長這個今年颱風比較多"},{"start":10962.731,"end":10979.506,"text":"那颱風天最重要的,也最辛苦的,就是台電的維修人員,以防台天,我們大家都要怎麼避險,可是他們要去修復電力,所以他們是往危險的地方走。"},{"start":10980.527,"end":10999.056,"text":"那所以可以想像的就是說你在颱風天這些維修人員第一個他們工作辛苦那我想要請教因為我台電也有在旁邊齁如果部長有不清楚你就可以直接回答就是說這些台電的維修人員他們在颱風天出勤他們的薪水有沒有增加"},{"start":11000.716,"end":11024.565,"text":"呃,有加班費,但是實際的狀況我來請這個臺電的部長來跟各位報告因為我知道更實際的狀況比你臺電還要清楚是,我們臺風天出勤有另外有危險增添有危險增添嘛,對不對是,我們危險增添是10月1號,我們國營市才剛調,調了70%那個是指臺電的內部維修人員,但是現在臺電內部維修人員越來越少了,你們現在是不是都外包"},{"start":11025.852,"end":11045.441,"text":"有一半是外包的幾乎啦,依我在嘉義看,超過一半是外包好,你們外包的時候,你們請求外包單位在颱風天出去工作的時候有沒有額外給他們加擠我們是加擠,你給外包公司另外的幾副計算的方式完全不一樣,颱風他是按時間給價"},{"start":11048.942,"end":11063.275,"text":"好,計算方式不一樣。我跟你說,大概一些維修人員的心聲,外包公司的維修人員幾乎都不想在颱風天出來工作。第一,費用。第二,外包公司也沒有額外給他錢啊。"},{"start":11065.56,"end":11082.608,"text":"沒有啊,你們給外包公司颱風天另外記下,他也沒有另外給那些維修人員啊所以對於他們那些維修人員來說,颱風天出來多危險啊所以你知道現在颱風天在於這個地方維修的效率越來越差"},{"start":11084.858,"end":11108.534,"text":"比你們因為最近才開始大放外包以前大概都是台電自己內部的維修嘛現在開始把它轉成一半是外包那你一半外包的時候你們對於外包公司他們對於員工的一些照顧以及在危險危險應該要額外給津貼的時候你們有算給他OK這個是應該要算的但是你們卻沒有進一步的去督促"},{"start":11109.375,"end":11127.764,"text":"他外包公司有沒有把應該要額外算給他的,如實全部給他的員工,出來維修的員工?這個我們要求。你們第一個要求。第二個,如果要要求的話,你們應該要要求這一些出來工作的員工要有編號。"},{"start":11130.397,"end":11152.467,"text":"我們有編號,編號要清楚嘛,那你們台電要做的工作很簡單啊,你就叫人出來選選看這裡的人做行為,就知道這裡的編號有出來,這裡的編號有出來,就這裡的人要給他們錢,這樣第一個避免備用人頭,因為外包公司品質我們怎樣不知道,可是我們要把制度設計好"},{"start":11154.428,"end":11170.061,"text":"這裏真的有來做的,就應該他們有做,就要給人們。是,應該,應該。所以你們這個制度要用好,不然我在颱風天我就背到那些維修人員,因為我們這層頭也要修理,那層頭也要修理,我們也都去那裡說,你們這裡修理好了嗎?我就是怕說,我們這樣一天說下去,我就說,這樣中途來,我們快寬把包還是什麼。當然我們也是希望,他們的卡丘那麼快。"},{"start":11181.59,"end":11199.158,"text":"但是我們不能互相催促啊!但是齁,我在跟他們互動的過程中,我很聽到他們的心聲,讓我覺得很難過。是,感謝委員。這…我們…風太天的待遇和包廂是很好的待遇啦!我知道!你讓包廂這麼好啊!所以包廂我們說風太天出來OK啊!但是他們的人一定不會出來啊!"},{"start":11200.462,"end":11201.983,"text":"一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員及基層員工薪資水準"},{"start":11229.881,"end":11235.731,"text":"好,那臺電的可以請先回,那我們再請那個今天產業園區署有來嗎?沒有嗎?產發署,楊署長"},{"start":11240.929,"end":11269.788,"text":"好部長那我再接下去問所以我們現在有很多產業園區事實上我們產業園區我們第一個需要勞動力但是這些勞動力他們現在對於尤其在偏鄉像我們嘉義的產業園區不管是南進或是中埔的這樣的產業園區基本上相對於北部來說對年輕人來說比較偏鄉比較偏鄉基本上生活機能是比較不好的"},{"start":11270.288,"end":11283.602,"text":"所以我跟部長我具體建議啦因為時間沒有剩很多我具體建議說我們產業園區署是不是都有一塊地要整起來變成這個產業園區的這個辦公室每個地方都有嘛"},{"start":11284.997,"end":11309.218,"text":"我們都有服務中心我的具體建議啦我們因為現在國家在蓋社會住宅事實上在找公有地很困難你們為什麼這樣的一個服務中心跟社會住宅不能整併在一起然後讓這一些在產業園區上面的員工他可以就近有便宜的房子可以租那這樣的話對於他們來"},{"start":11312.04,"end":11331.958,"text":"來這個產業園區上班。第一個,我們希望產業園區的企業可以照顧他的員工,薪水要高。如果他又可以就近,有地方可以住,然後他也可以省下他很大的交通費。阿你既然那裡有工地,工地你的服務中心都差不多去一樓、二樓、三樓啦。"},{"start":11332.719,"end":11333.2,"text":"進行報告：一、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員及基層員工薪資水準"},{"start":11350.063,"end":11365.139,"text":"謝謝委員我想你這個這個意見非常的好那我們會帶回去跟國土署跟國土署可以商量一下跟內政部我想我們充分的來討論快速的討論解決現在目前的問題好我覺得這一點因為現在有一些產業園區還在興建中"},{"start":11368.542,"end":11383.03,"text":"像我們嘉義的南徑、中埔的公館、水商南徑這個財源區還在興建,所以這個服務中心還沒有蓋好,也還沒有開始所以現在去規劃,剛好讓那裡有社會住宅,這樣起來我覺得就是一個很適當的方式好不好好,那這部分就期待部長朝這方向來努力還有剛剛台電那一件事情,我覺得我們要督促好"},{"start":11393.816,"end":11418.973,"text":"讓下一次訪台聽的時候,再來外包公司的工人一樣感受到替國家賣命、替國家來努力是有他的報酬的。好不好?好,謝謝。謝謝蔡議員,時間掌握非常精準,令主席敬佩。請部長回座。"},{"start":11432.022,"end":11433.003,"text":"邀請邱志維委員質詢中油鋼交接"},{"start":11455.936,"end":11481.053,"text":"董總剛交接,但是中油啊,它那個今年大概累計虧損全年大概到600多億,637億這種狀況啊,每年的利息負擔大概100億還用因為政策的關係承受政策的負擔,所以它吸收這些成本所以累計的這個虧損啊,大概已經好幾千億了,大概接近4千億嘛"},{"start":11482.284,"end":11510.781,"text":"那這種情況這個我們中油為了要使民生跟住宅用電能夠不受調漲然後他提出請行政院撥補一千億來彌補這個1.18元的缺口所以讓民生跟住宅用電可以維持、可以動長但當然同樣國營事業中油跟台電都是跟民生相關台電可以由政府來撥補兩千億"},{"start":11512.441,"end":11533.691,"text":"那當然油氣要漲他才能反映成本新的董事長他也提出希望能夠適度合理的調整油氣的價格另外也提出四年3500億的不管是增資或者是由政府來撥補這個部分啊經濟部的立場是如何怎麼是有沒有"},{"start":11534.432,"end":11558.887,"text":"報告委員我想價格的部分必須由價格審議委員會來做決定那董事長我們建議不要輕易的這個來談這個樣的價格的事情他是在就職的時候說出這個而且他提增資或者撥補不是現在才提的提了很久我想各種財務上面的這個考量剛才這個委員就教的非常好我想改善財務的方法當然有很多"},{"start":11559.793,"end":11584.293,"text":"那中油的虧損其實是並不大它是負債 借款很多啦借款大概七、八千億所以它的利息就一百億吧所以它的虧損並不那麼大但是它的財務的確發生困難啦不管你用什麼方式解決撥補或者增資我想行政院或者經濟部要有一定的立場不能拖啦 對 我們跟主計處"},{"start":11587.976,"end":11613.453,"text":"還有國營私來共同討論這個事情如何來解決他的財務問題另外美國總統大選到目前為止的情況好像有一點點明朗但是還沒確定在未來我們當時產生了第10條之二的部分我們針對台灣版所謂的晶片法案提供很多優惠"},{"start":11614.864,"end":11635.354,"text":"如果按照這個如果新的共和黨的眾議院議長加上如果未來如果是川普當選的話對晶片會課稅的話增加我們先進製程的這個成本那這種情況我們當時修了10條12的優惠大概只能適用4家"},{"start":11636.604,"end":11660.883,"text":"未來經濟部有沒有考慮要維持先進製程的競爭力降低它成本有沒有可能在未來再考慮再把門檻再調整我想我們會因時因地而質疑我想經濟部一向就是滾動式的調整來因應整個環境的改變所以委員在提議的這個部分我們會深刻地來考慮"},{"start":11661.964,"end":11686.444,"text":"我擔心說我們的最大優勢是先進製程,先進製程不見得有優勢,先進製程的優勢一定要確保另外請國安會主委主委,所謂低薪如果按照OECD的標準,OECD定義低薪總薪資中位數的三分之二"},{"start":11687.355,"end":11689.476,"text":"那負稅署負稅署那個財政負稅署"},{"start":11718.948,"end":11733.88,"text":"跟委員報告用GDP來看比較根據國外目前累積14年的分析出來的結果GDP的成長對薪資的最高位數跟最低位數會有會有比較大的影響那"},{"start":11735.48,"end":11762.042,"text":"那它為什麼會有很大的影響以最高位數主要是資本利得在GDP成長不高的時候會影響到那低薪的部分分成兩部分一種是以退休的人員來看它會有受到很大的影響因為貨幣政策造成的影響的確這是一個事實這是一個數據我們LVCD國家我們的這個人均GDP的最低工資的比例是最低的"},{"start":11762.682,"end":11791.833,"text":"所以這部分代表說你顯現出的確是有低薪問題而且是青年低薪而且是集中在中小型企業或者服務業的低薪對不對這部分國安會應該整合各部會來協調比如說為什麼請賦稅署來或者怎麼樣用提供這個租稅優惠讓企業提供誘因給企業提供誘因來對員工加薪如果你對企業提供加薪我就對你這個稅賦有相關的這個誘因要想一些方法"},{"start":11792.433,"end":11802.021,"text":"這是很好的方法。這是很好的方法,也許我們看看負稅署願不願意支持。負稅署報告,我們的中小企業發展條約今年剛完成修法,那有提供中小企業加薪減稅的措施。"},{"start":11823.185,"end":11829.263,"text":"這個太籠統了你看一下中小企業借貸的管道中小企業應該是政府要高度扶持"},{"start":11830,"end":11856.304,"text":"因為他相對的他的這個資本他的這個相關籌資管道不夠所以你看他政府提供給中小企業貸款條件限制多條件嚴苛、名額有限、使用時間長這部分也是要國會去協調財政部門去做對,這個部分也在我們這次新公告的方案之一就是如果企業願意去調薪的話我們也會在貸款上面給予支持"},{"start":11856.846,"end":11885.478,"text":"所以這個很多政策啊你們應該要更積極要開放而且力道要強一點下的要某一點而且你要設定一個這個KPI一個目標值你到民國幾年你要達到這個平均薪資要多少錢服務業平均薪資然後中小型企業製造業平均薪資要達到多少錢這個你一定要設定很嚴謹的目標然後按照這個目標你隨時每年度甚至每個月去管控"},{"start":11886.488,"end":11914.349,"text":"所以為什麼產發署要那麼重要為什麼中小企業發展署那麼重要因為經濟部下面所屬的跟中小企業相關的就是產發署就是中小企業署跟這個商發署嘛但相對產業弱勢但是是我們所有市民、百姓、國民、國人同胞在從事的行業都是中小企業為主對不對都是服務業為主但是飽受地心之苦所以這個很多的問題我想"},{"start":11916.107,"end":11916.227,"text":"議員主席議員"},{"start":11942.148,"end":11969.175,"text":"哇!召委以身作則!分秒不差!太厲害了!好!謝謝!我們下一位請侯孟凱委員"},{"start":11976.985,"end":11978.888,"text":"主席謝謝,麻煩請經濟部長跟國發會主委請國發會留主委跟經濟部國部長"},{"start":11986.313,"end":12012.332,"text":"來,國部長我先請教因為菲律賓買電的這個議題本來以為這只是兩三個禮拜前你提出來那後來這兩天又持續延燒業界認為是說是因為台灣現在缺再生能源恐急所以說才會動到菲律賓去估算認為說你即便是把電纜、儲能跟電網輸送等根本不可能每電低於四塊這樣的一個價格"},{"start":12014.033,"end":12023.319,"text":"不知道部長有沒有看到這樣的一個訊息我先請教一下菲律賓現在光電占他全國的百分之幾報告委員"},{"start":12032.492,"end":12058.294,"text":"菲律賓的光電是不具競爭力的菲律賓現在光電佔他們全國百分之幾?知道嗎?我不知道你不知道?菲律賓光電佔他全國發電的百分之2.4臺灣光電現在佔我們全國發電百分之幾?我們目前大概目標目前2024年今年現在此時此刻也不知道部長"},{"start":12059.824,"end":12079.931,"text":"你不知道菲律賓發電站、光電站他們全國發電百分之幾你也不知道台灣光電站全國發電百分之幾然後結果你現在意想天開認為是說我們可以去跟菲律賓買電報告委員我不是意想天開我今天也講得非常清楚在國際貿易理論裡面有一個非常重要的理論"},{"start":12081.44,"end":12110.087,"text":"有一個非常重要的理論叫做藥術貶負理論企業的競爭力是國際的...我等一下讓你講因為朝委的時間控制很嚴格我沒有辦法讓你講其他的我只要你直接回答問題菲律賓光電在百分之全國2.4那菲律賓光電因為我們台灣目前為止是禁止中國製的光電模組跟電池對不對那菲律賓的光電它大部分都是哪一個國家製作的"},{"start":12111.598,"end":12134.315,"text":"菲律賓大部分應該都是中國的吧中國的對所以我們現在是要去跟菲律賓買電以你的構想跟邏輯要跟菲律賓買電然後菲律賓用的是中國製的光電跟電池哇 這種講法如果說看在我們偉大的民進黨政府抗中保台的立場上你根本就是中共同路人啊你根本就是資匪了你知道嗎"},{"start":12135.629,"end":12164.132,"text":"你會想出這樣的想法菲律賓的光電如同你剛剛說的有80%以上甚至有人講說可能高90%都是大陸製的光電模組跟電池結果我們今天居然想是說我們台灣的本土產業或者是像國發會之前投入了30億投資綠能國家隊我們當初綠能國家隊不管是光電不管是風力發電我們是不是都是有很重要一個使命是要培植本土產業"},{"start":12164.853,"end":12168.655,"text":"希望讓我們臺灣的產業能夠有永續發展的可能性。來,諸位。是嗎?然後結果現在有一個經濟部長講是說我們現在臺灣的本土產業不一定那麼重要。我們到菲律賓去買電。菲律賓買電的光電模組是中國大陸製的。那請教一下,我們是不是把我們的錢"},{"start":12187.881,"end":12210.643,"text":"某種程度上人家還不用出口轉內箱還不用去洗產地他直接在菲律賓裡面就可以用Made in China的光電模組來種電來 主委我再請教因為國發會有能源政策跟相關的2050淨零碳排的路徑請教過去到現在討論能源政策也好或討論淨零碳排路徑有沒有曾經討論過跟國外買電的可能性"},{"start":12213.751,"end":12227.538,"text":"在哪一次?白皮書裡面有沒有?目前是沒有沒有?所以你身後的這位部長過去到現在也沒有跟國發會有提過說我們可以跟國外買電,是不是這樣?你是也是從新聞上看到的?"},{"start":12228.955,"end":12256.743,"text":"是不是從新聞上看到的你直接講這個是未來我們都在找多元理是不是從新聞上看到的第一次是從新聞看到的是 謝謝但是跟委員報告國家發展委員會主委證實了經濟部部長的這個想法沒有跟國家發展委員會討論過並且也是在新聞上看到的他不需要跟我討論因為人員政策稍微也站起來了感謝大家 謝謝人員局的責任所以人員政策是不需要跟我討論的謝謝彭孟海委員時間掌握非常的精準謝謝"},{"start":12259.725,"end":12287.04,"text":"下一位我們今天已經宣告過到12點12點上午的質詢結束那這場徐宇貞委員在我知道啦你不要急嘛我是說他如果發言時間超過10到12點你就要到下午2點半了那我們今天上午是到徐宇貞委員質詢結束接下來質詢請葉元之委員"},{"start":12294.572,"end":12295.673,"text":"麻煩請國防會主委請國防會劉主委"},{"start":12313.635,"end":12340.381,"text":"委員早昨天好,跟你請教一下那個文化部長李遠他說他為了要救台灣影視產業讓台灣的影視產業外銷可以增加所以跟你另外要了一個一百億希望能夠打造台灣的自己的最大的OTT平台有這件事嗎?是有的那你有同意給他一百億的嗎?不是我同意要經過國發這個基金的那個三段式的審議同意那為什麼他說他跟你講了很興奮講出來?"},{"start":12341.994,"end":12363.48,"text":"那個是因為他已經經過了三段式的審議通過了所以通過了我跟主委請教而且他的法源基礎是來自於文創條例主委請教一下你們現在投資100億做這個平台你的目的是什麼是希望投資賺錢還是有其他的目的他主要是依據文創條例主要是要協助振興這個文化產業所以不是完全以賺錢為目的"},{"start":12365.749,"end":12385.959,"text":"呃,不是以賺錢,國化基金的設立本來就是以創新轉型為主所以,呃,虧損也沒關係嘛,但只要能夠達到創新轉型是這個意思嗎?呃,倒不全然喔,我們還是希望你還是希望能夠有點獲利嘛,對吧?因為畢竟,畢竟這個錢也都是人民納稅錢嘛對的,因為我們,好,那主委,那我就要跟你請教一下齁,因為"},{"start":12386.859,"end":12405.549,"text":"我是覺得為了要讓我們這個影視產業提高外銷比例所以創一個OTT平台實際上是一個蠻奇怪的本末倒置的行為那第一你知道迪士尼Plus在已經其實在台灣這個流量都很慘你知道這件事嗎"},{"start":12406.249,"end":12413.56,"text":"你知道迪士尼Plus它近三年虧損多少嗎?你應該不知道啦,我講給你聽啦2021年虧損16億美金就差不多500億左右,台幣2022年虧損22億2023年虧損15億"},{"start":12421.55,"end":12448.638,"text":"那迪士尼Plus內容投資多少呢?2021年投資了80億美元2022年投資100億美元2023年投資了110億的美元換句話說他投資非常多但實際上他還是屬於虧損的狀態那所以我們今天既然要國家經濟要投資100億去做OTD平台你要準備非常多錢在這個上面啊你覺得國家經濟後面還會有這麼多銀彈可以投資在這個OTD上面嗎?"},{"start":12449.557,"end":12460.119,"text":"我們這次的額度是匡列100億,原則上他會用完我們才有可能再去匡列應該很快就用完了啦,我跟你講按照迪士尼PLUS燒錢的速度應該很快就用完了啦"},{"start":12461.075,"end":12479.406,"text":"那人家一般的平台像Netflix他為什麼可以這個做這麼好不是說他在投資在平台是因為他投資在內容嘛當時的時候投資一個紙牌屋用大數據分析的方式去研究說什麼樣的影片是國際上會喜歡看的所以因為紙牌屋一炮而紅帶動平台的發展"},{"start":12480.026,"end":12494.576,"text":"所以我們如果要用平台去帶動內容發展我覺得蠻奇怪的這就好比說是一個小島它要發展觀光然後說要增加航線不是嘛你到最後去行銷那個飛機的然後跟大家講說這個飛機很棒所以請大家坐飛機過來"},{"start":12495.917,"end":12521.617,"text":"你應該是要行銷你自己的觀光內容嘛就像劉德華這次來開演唱會對你們民進黨罵得那麼慘對不對變成一個什麼舔共藝人還是一堆劉德華的華少們啊劉太太啊很多粉絲都去支持他為什麼因為他內容好嘛所以關鍵在這邊啦因為我 我是建議主委啦齁因為李議員當然我覺得那個文化部長他天馬行空啊他現在變成要做平台"},{"start":12522.751,"end":12546.363,"text":"之外會花很多錢在平台上面所以未來你們要行銷內容也要行銷平台因為我覺得如果說你之後還要再把錢投入在上面的話應該要花錢在行銷內容上面畢竟內容才是有一句話叫內容是王啦在影視產業我不知道你知道這個事情那劉康仁為什麼會離開呢他講了一句話他說因為台灣的素材受限嘛"},{"start":12546.903,"end":12569.218,"text":"因為國發基金很多都投資所謂要台灣價值的影片啊所以題材非常受限啊所以導致於說有很多影迷或是一些劇迷就移開了啊因此我認為啦未來還要投錢你就要往內容發展第二個除非你OTT不是要為了娛樂產業你是要做OTT版的公共電視"},{"start":12570.279,"end":12587.072,"text":"那又是另外一回事我覺得這個你們要確定你們投資方向好的我會跟文化部說明委員的寶貴意見好 謝謝主委請回座好 今天早上最後一位質詢請徐宇貞委員"},{"start":12597.778,"end":12601.101,"text":"謝謝主席,我們請劉主委請國安委劉主委劉主委好,今年4月的時候,行政院主計總處有發布了2021年的家庭財富分配統計,前20%的資產淨值是平均每戶5,133萬"},{"start":12622.813,"end":12645.593,"text":"跟最貧窮的20%的資產77萬差距高達66.9倍那這個結果跟30年前公布的16.8倍相比我國的財富差距有非常擴大的這個趨勢那以近兩年的這個高房價來看的話我們也知道這個差距的數字可能是更大那目前我們看到的我們的中產階級已經變成中產階級"},{"start":12649.154,"end":12678.113,"text":"這個非常悲慘的慘甚至有一些專家學者也提出中產階級其實已經慢慢的在消失當中那面對這個部分就是薪水略漲但物價飆漲的現象請問劉主委國發會面對財富分配惡化的情況有沒有具體的政策跟規劃跟委員報告這個這份報告我們針對這個我們做過更細的去了解這份內容是"},{"start":12678.493,"end":12699.098,"text":"當然主計總處的說法是說他30年前的調查方法跟現在的方法比較不一致很難做一對一的比較因為他現在融入的是大數據的分析但是我分析說明一下他其實這裡所講的中產階級是裡面的第三等份跟第四等份但是我們確定了他的"},{"start":12699.939,"end":12716.656,"text":"的數字都增加了就是說第三等份、第四等份他們的那個所得都有大幅的增加那唯一有一個比較幾乎二、三、四、五都有大幅的增加但是一等份是有減少的現象所以我們現在也針對這個部分你有什麼具體的政策規劃"},{"start":12720.771,"end":12734.621,"text":"我們現在呢就是第一個2345財富都有增加那我們想要針對第一等份財富並沒有增加的這個等份我們希望投入一些社會福利去協助這些這個族群"},{"start":12736.222,"end":12754.555,"text":"但投入社會福利要投入多少才能夠解決?而且我們今天講的是青年的低薪的問題那根據民進黨執政這8年來將調升基本工資視為改善低薪的一個重要的政策那勞動部也在112年5月21號表示"},{"start":12758.157,"end":12782.816,"text":"勞動部是要落實這個蔡總統支持青年就業的這個政策也會保障出入職場的青年勞工的薪資的權益但是根據勞動部的統計每四名大學畢業生中就一個人是出入職場就起薪只有領基本工資表示說這個政策並沒有辦法改善青年的薪資結構所以說針對這個部分我們在經濟發展委員會的第一次的顧問會議就指出只調整"},{"start":12783.516,"end":12807.665,"text":"最低工資沒有辦法解決臺灣普遍薪資的問題請問劉主委你認為最低薪資應該要多少?我們勞動部的何部長說3萬億那你覺得合理的期金多少?他的3萬億是用OECD的標準但是我們現在其實第一個我們有做了幾件事情第一個是政府的採購我們現在是會要求要高於這個數字那第二個事情就是說這是您報告提的嗎?是嗎?您報告裡面寫的是嗎?"},{"start":12811.166,"end":12827.501,"text":"對,那第二個部分其實我們現在一樣我們找經管會第一個我們會公告出這個薪資的比較,產業薪資比較第二個在新的IPO要申請上市的公司我們要求到最低公司的1.3倍是遠超過目前這個3萬億的數字那另外一個"},{"start":12831.064,"end":12852.65,"text":"另外我們也會把這些薪資都列入他們的公司評鑑裡面我們希望給你比較大的壓力尤其是中小企業來說的話他如果沒有辦法他的業績就不好你只要加薪他就沒辦法做到所以希望我們這個政策"},{"start":12855.771,"end":12882.491,"text":"對,還是要具體的落實,不要只是空談沒錯,我們就是投入110多億,我們這次是以面為主那希望下一次再請教國家發展委員會主委的時候能夠有一個好的一個具體的政策,好嗎?好的謝謝好,謝謝許委員好,先諸位請回座報案會現在休息,下午兩點半繼續開會"},{"start":12902.14,"end":12904.842,"text":"對教育部部長、國家發展委員及基層員工薪資水準"},{"start":18416.254,"end":18417.346,"text":"並備質詢。"},{"start":18476.817,"end":18477.295,"text":"並備質詢。"},{"start":20679.991,"end":20680.859,"text":"及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業"},{"start":21552.808,"end":21571.864,"text":"好,我們現在繼續開會。黃國昌、黃國昌、黃國昌、黃國昌不在?下一位諮詢委員請戴世保委員。謝謝主席及各位親信。有請國發會的劉主委及經濟部的郭部長兩位掌聲請。"},{"start":21577.594,"end":21596.645,"text":"先請教劉主委啦齁這個如你所願啦川普應該會贏的美國大選喔你說對台商是大利多喔你這個講利多是到底是有沒有根據啊根據什麼根據你的guts feeling就是你直覺還是根據哪些報告有沒有"},{"start":21597.708,"end":21603.751,"text":"我跟委員報告他對中國企業徵收60%的稅對台灣的增加10%的稅對,我們相差50%的稅那我們最近企業被中國內捲殺到那他的徵稅有助於我們翻轉第二個部分國部長來,國部長國部長,電子業,你是電子業出身的電子業的平均毛利多少"},{"start":21628.001,"end":21636.713,"text":"要看哪一個業啊?你的行業!電子業這麼長!你的行業!你的行業!YOU!YOU!YOU!你的!你的!你的!你以前的!從業!從業!從業!從業!半導體!我從業是8%嘛!"},{"start":21643.923,"end":21643.983,"text":"主席"},{"start":21662.168,"end":21676.497,"text":"你同意嗎?他說對川普當選現在已經差不多當選了是對台商是大利多嗎?來來來你同意不同意我問你你同意不同意?你同意不同意?我完全同意我完全同意喔再一個多一個川普吶吼"},{"start":21677.838,"end":21680.659,"text":"這個我是不懂這個邏輯怎麼了你賺8%給人家課10%你很高興我請問你委員我賺8%跟課10%完全沒有關係那個是在我進到美國的市場他課10%是美國的客戶買他會加10%來跟我買但是我賺的8%是沒有少我們多半是FOB來這個部長經濟部長"},{"start":21706.714,"end":21735.92,"text":"這是你,你看我看過在立法院這麼多年了企業界出身的部長我發現Renky是非常後面的你大概只有英中才一你比那個第一任的企業界出來的林新立啊差有過多他的數字啊問什麼都清天楚楚你問什麼你都不清楚比如我,我來問你一個啊台電有沒有股票上市?蛤?台電有沒有股票上市?沒有啊蛤?沒有啊以前有沒有?"},{"start":21736.977,"end":21737.238,"text":"邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":21748.592,"end":21778.592,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":21779.353,"end":21802.571,"text":"五千八百億喔!再加一千就六千八百億喔!是啊!民股的股權又再稀釋的!原來四點多變三點多現在可能第三喔!部長啊!怎麼辦?民股怎麼辦?報告委員那個稀釋民股啊!也要這個就如果我不是真知就不是稀釋民股啊!"},{"start":21803.26,"end":21804.841,"text":"邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":21826.65,"end":21833.392,"text":"菲律賓他會蓋很多大的光電廠你都不知道啊你講光電光電你剛才委員就吐泥就已經在2.6%再一點點他要蓋個大電廠我們海底電線要1500億蓋個電廠1000億這個叫隨便長講啊部長還是隨便講講部長你的評價很低啦這個部長啊謝謝謝謝賴事長委員來部長請回座"},{"start":21857.58,"end":21868.877,"text":"下一位質詢請陳冠廷委員您好,我們請部長請郭部長"},{"start":21874.252,"end":21903.112,"text":"委員好部長好部長今年9月我們對美國的出口是87.8億美元是歷年來同月最佳那累積1到9月的美國出口是842億增加300多億美元那這個年成長率不斷的在越來越好某種程度是對台灣的出口是肯定的可是在美台貿易美方這個對大幅的赤字早在拜登的時期就有一些"},{"start":21904.053,"end":21905.453,"text":"我想我們臺灣跟美國的貿易都有一些深厚的基礎"},{"start":21933.462,"end":21947.292,"text":"那麼不會因為這個總統候選人哪一位上去就會有一個重大的改變這個是最基本的所以我們認為不管是哪一位候選人他今天出現"},{"start":21948.632,"end":21971.568,"text":"然後會去執行一個天翻地覆的這個政策我想應該是不會啦這個過去的經驗告訴我們部長我擔心確實是不同的總統候選人他確實會有天翻地覆的改變是有的特別是這幾年的變化那擔心不代表說一定會發生就算是"},{"start":21972.881,"end":21998.56,"text":"不管是誰當選他的經濟政策我們都要有一定的對應的方式所以我是想說如果說對於出口上面我國對美國的出口是不斷的增加的同時有沒有可能在國防的這個採購上面或者是經濟跟國防跟科技共同在同一個overlap的地方重疊的部分我們必須要有一個說法讓美國知道說我們對他們的擔憂是有正面的看法就是說"},{"start":21998.92,"end":22024.689,"text":"我們不會因此而說那我們就不增加出口這個果實我們就不要當然還是要只是說我們要怎麼樣frame這樣子的說法確保台灣跟美國的利益同時達到就是不是只有我們台灣本身的利益因為雙方的貿易雙方都得利益也不是說我們出操或者是人家入操就是不好或好所以這個說法部長有沒有想說未來如果遇到這樣子的比如說我現在的質詢你會怎麼樣來去回應"},{"start":22027.394,"end":22050.58,"text":"我們對於未來的各種變化其實都有一些模擬都有一些scenario所以我認為這個部分是因為屬於國家安全的部分所以我們大概也只能在某一個限制之下來跟委員做報告好 謝謝部長那再來有一個就是跟今天的主題比較有關就是跟經濟的果實"},{"start":22051.92,"end":22077.419,"text":"那經濟的果實在主計處在全體受僱人員總薪資的高低足以排序現在中位數是50.6萬可是如果我們從圖表來看的話在左右兩側完全不同的分布左側當然是比較明顯且集中這代表說大概是813萬的半數受僱者是低於此數那我們是想請教在勞動人口比例比較多沒有享受到這個經濟的果實"},{"start":22078.82,"end":22104.444,"text":"是不是有可能來學習說一些我們臺灣很多重要的產業我們要說半導體的產業也好那他們都會有包含員工的配股、員工的購股的補助我們有辦法用政策,比方說用政策的獎勵讓這一個施放股權給基層員工可以用扣低銀索稅等等的方式來去做出這個讓員工跟企業的成長利害一致的做法不知道部長有沒有什麼樣的建議跟看法"},{"start":22105.264,"end":22127.121,"text":"報告委員,我想您所指導的這幾個部分,事實上我們在院內都有在持續的討論,都有持續在討論中。所以這個方向是有可能的。方向是非常正確的。好,謝謝部長。謝謝委員。好,謝謝陳冠廷委員。來,部長請回座。林淳雲,林淳雲,林淳雲不在。謝惠之雲,請扭曲廷委員。"},{"start":22133.184,"end":22160.082,"text":"謝主席、經濟部長有請請郭部長委員好部長你常常心直口快但我還是要提醒你川普現在基本上已經定牌了很可能要領先不過剛剛兩位委員的答詢裡面前面一講說川普要課60%針對中國大陸的關稅然後你們說這對台灣來講是一個大利多你是國發會主委講的然後剛剛回答陳冠廷委員答詢你你又講政策不會有大規模的改變那到底是會改變還是不會改變我們"},{"start":22162.615,"end":22177.179,"text":"會改變跟不會改變我們都有做scenario我是建議你未來在答詢的時候要謹言慎行不要到最後又變草率發言好不好但這不是今天要問的重點今天要討論的題目叫做這個青年低薪的這個問題這是個老問題我就從部長過去的經驗來出發來跟你探討一下這部長過去在從業服務的時候"},{"start":22182.681,"end":22201.261,"text":"在帶領從業集團的時候有沒有響應當初政府每次我們要談論青年低薪的問題有的時候是一些減稅的利多有一些是溫情的喊話有一些是政策的指示不管怎麼樣過去您在擔任董事長前有沒有響應過政府這樣的措施然後幫你這個集團裡面的年輕人加薪"},{"start":22202.731,"end":22226.879,"text":"我是幫年輕人加薪是一定有啦但是不一定響應政府的措施不一定響應政府的措施你這樣讓部長這個接下來的這個任你有多大的把握就是我們的國家能夠有效的導引各樣的企業去帶動年輕人薪水的成長我們大概基本上是透過兩個方向第一個就是幫他轉型走向這個高值化的這個產業"},{"start":22228.567,"end":22254.643,"text":"那麼第二個呢是透過現有的政府的機制一個就是數位化一個就低碳化那麼來輔導他們你講到碳這件事情本席其實就非常有感因為我稍微查了一下從業集團過去你們在這個配合政府配合最多的地方其實是全面配合這個相關的一個減碳的一個措施對不對這一點當然是值得肯定但是當初你在配合政府這樣的一個政策去做了這樣子的努力的時候是不是有給企業帶來額外的成本"},{"start":22255.987,"end":22278.838,"text":"我想這個本來企業轉型就需要一些成本那我以前的公司還能夠承擔這樣的成本我想委員大概關心的就是說有沒有這個企業的政策能夠讓得到員工所有大家的支持本期要跟你講的狀況是你現在來要面對這個未來我們之前也在這個地方也討論過比如說這個碳費、碳稅等等"},{"start":22279.658,"end":22295.056,"text":"這樣子的一些機制其實都在在的會增加企業的成本那本縣擔心的是企業要面對這麼多新的挑戰的同時他其實光是應付這些新的挑戰他就窮於應付、疲於奔命當然就沒有所謂的餘裕可以再來提升勞工的勞動待遇"},{"start":22297.418,"end":22324.19,"text":"政府的很多政策利益都很好但是當企業要配合的時候他就擔負成本這本席在這個地方要表達我們的立場就是說我希望未來的經濟部跟整個行政院的團隊可以導引的其實是政府有些政策可以幫企業節省成本過去我們在總諮詢對答的時候你有講綠電未來增加高額成本要由企業來負擔我是不知道為什麼台電董事長後來又講說可能要調漲民生電價看來又是草率發言但本席其實那時候要提這個概念其實是這樣"},{"start":22324.93,"end":22348.127,"text":"其實你政府的能源政策如果可以有效的降低企業的成本做合理的轉型的時候做合理的修正跟調整的時候你應該是協助企業降低這一部分的成本嘛當你協助他降低這一部分的成本的時候讓他省下來的錢其實讓他去照顧勞工這樣是不是企業也不輸勞工可以贏可是我們目前現在政府的方向顯然經過了幾次的總諮詢之後看起來還是沒有一個像樣的總檢討"},{"start":22349.008,"end":22364.794,"text":"我是希望還可以很快看到有一定的成果把企業這個相關能源的成本政府可以協助可以支持可以把成本降下來相關來講你就刻以企業更多的責任過去我們談企業加薪常常不是小之以理就是動之以情喝咖啡喝半天也不一定有人響應阿"},{"start":22365.894,"end":22388.106,"text":"如果沒有辦法透過政策的導引讓企業在利潤的分配上可以更加合理的話那恐怕經濟部也好、國發會也好到最後也是只有喝咖啡的功能本席不希望這樣部長你對這件事你有沒有什麼具體的做法我們對這個委員你的這個指導非常的重視啦我們也朝這個方向正在進行所以我們在未來形成的新的這個政策的話"},{"start":22388.866,"end":22413.579,"text":"一定就是獎勵企業那由提升企業的競爭力讓企業高值化、低成本化然後把得到的這些利益回饋給員工部長你今天這個政策就當成你的軍令狀這是你的目標啦我們當然還有一些時間時間會給大家證明希望確實能夠如部長所說重點還是要能夠帶動年輕人的加薪解決低薪問題可以嗎是的好謝謝謝謝好謝謝牛協定委員來部長請回座"},{"start":22419.825,"end":22421.365,"text":"登記發言人除不在場者之外,區域均發言完畢。訊號結束。"},{"start":22443.206,"end":22456.382,"text":"由委員羅志祥、劉雪婷、王宏威所提出兵資料列入紀錄,刊登報告。出兵執行及未達部分請將會在一週內以順便討論並赴日本會。本日議程處理完畢,現在散會。"},{"start":22466.773,"end":22470.557,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員及基層員工薪資水準。"},{"start":22496.641,"end":22498.787,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員及基層員工薪資水準"},{"start":22505.165,"end":22507.466,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":22534.735,"end":22537.157,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員及基層員工薪資水準"},{"start":22550.382,"end":22551.263,"text":"二、邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員"},{"start":22580.132,"end":22580.973,"text":"這個都錄進去了 不關"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}