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影片有時候他會說他造假他隨便說說啦所以變成說他如果真正的筆錄過程裡面他確認說他也承認他是從中國帶進來的話那就會依照相關的處罰的規定去處罰"},{"start":252.629,"end":267.528,"text":"那第二個部分就是我們會在機場邊境去做更加強的一個宣導我覺得我們現在很重視整個肉類製品慢慢的那個帶進來的旅客那個比例有越來越低了"},{"start":268.489,"end":290.869,"text":"動直率的方法然後現在像這種有點加熱會讓人家覺得說好像是可以的那這個誤解的部分我想我們會用用圖卡的方式或其他的方式能夠讓更多人知道這個我們會來努力好 那署長去查一下看你們這個訪台結果怎麼樣那今天跟本席報告一下那我再跟這個部長請教一下"},{"start":293.518,"end":319.817,"text":"這個齁 在美國 他有查到說有一種這個有毒的真菌 核古蓮苞菌蓮苞菌 蓮苞菌 他這個走私到美國去他們認為說這是一種這個潛在的農業恐怖主義的武器那我也記得說在幾年前 台灣也有類似這種案子那當然不是這種菌 就是說從中國那邊也有寄一些不明的一些種子啊土壤來到台灣"},{"start":320.998,"end":341.67,"text":"我跟委員說明就是河谷連刀菌正式的學名叫連刀菌不是連包菌那這個菌其實在台灣已經有發生的紀錄包括在小麥包括在玉米還有包括在稻米都有發生這樣的一個情況然後最主要是河本科然後他的致病"},{"start":342.33,"end":354.338,"text":"病原是不會比我們的道樂病的那個病原還強所以他現在目前是在檢疫的規定裡面不是因斯檢疫的項目之一那為什麼美國認為說他這個我要講的第二個重點就是說"},{"start":358.28,"end":375.931,"text":"那是因為他附著在植物種子帶進來那個可能危害個別危害比較輕微可以後續可以防治處理但是你如果純粹拿這個菌種菌種帶進來的話就有可能像剛才我也有提到可能變成一個灰色攻擊"},{"start":377.192,"end":393.984,"text":"就是說他可以混在任何的方式去做做特意的撒播的時候那就會變成短時間之內大面積的危害那樣的一個情況可能就會造成一些恐慌啊或是方式在台灣之前有發生過"},{"start":396.766,"end":417.664,"text":"有這個病但是沒有說被人用這種濃縮的菌種去做惡意的散布啦這個是沒有啦但是我們可能也要預防啦所以後續我也要求我們房間署未來針對在X光檢驗的時候因為它包裝應該會比較特殊嘛如果看到的話要特別去加強去查處啦"},{"start":418.525,"end":444.807,"text":"這是第一個部分然後回歸到田間的時候我們現在目前對這支菌的防治方法都已經都有一些現有的防治的技術跟防治的藥劑然後主要的那個品種像水稻或玉米都有一些抗病的品種那這樣的話也會降低萬一被惡意的做那個傳播的時候也會有基本的抗性"},{"start":445.808,"end":461.979,"text":"所以基本上在台灣是有技術去克服說這種如果說進來的話它的蔓延對我們已經因為它本身就已經存在在台灣了對好OK那我再請教一下那那個書長請回我再請教一下這個農業金融署的這個李書長"},{"start":468.06,"end":491.474,"text":"這個請教一下就是說這個央行在從去年開始那就陸陸續續有一些這個打房的一些措施那其中有央行的理事有提到說那會不會有可能這個有關土建農的貸款或是說一些民間的這些貸款跑到這個農會信用部去所以我想請問一下從去年大概年底到現在"},{"start":492.395,"end":503.068,"text":"有關於這個農漁會的信用部的這一個有關土建農的貸款還有這一個你們是有所謂的這個農安貸款嗎這個比例有增加嗎"},{"start":505.114,"end":522.484,"text":"是 各位報告那農安貸款的話大概最近一年他大概每個月承作的建樹跟進耳是大概相當並沒有明顯的增加沒有明顯的增加對 那另外針對信用部承作土建農的情況我們每個月都有在追蹤然後都有在督導以上"},{"start":523.064,"end":550.592,"text":"我是說有沒有成長的比例啊從去年比如說九月到現在一年的時間有沒有這個成長啊相關的那個比例我是不是可以匯報再提供給委員不過我們每個月都是有在注意好 那就你的印象所及有成長嗎應該是大概差不多差不多 沒有特別的成長沒有說因為銀行那邊比較難貸款的跑來我們這個農業會信用部來貸款大概因為農安貸款是從大概兩年前開始推動第一年的時候大概成長的速度比較快那大概這一年大概是已經有趨緩的現象"},{"start":552.853,"end":567.071,"text":"那你這個把這個相關的數字給我因為我去查資料至少到去年年底是有增加的啦但是你是認為說這個算是屬於還算是正常現象那你把這個相關數字提供給本席參考好不好好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝署長"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":610,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時11分）謝謝主席，我們請陳部長。"],["主席：陳部長。"],["李委員坤城：還有防檢署的徐署長。"],["主席：徐署長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["李委員坤城：部長好。一個禮拜之前有一個新聞，有個臺灣的藝人去中國，從中國帶回一個特產，叫做「活珠子」，這是南京的一個特產，就是把一個胚胎蛋帶回臺灣，請問農業部知不知道這件事情？防檢署知不知道這件事情？"],["徐署長榮彬：知道。"],["李委員坤城：有沒有去查？這有沒有違反動物傳染病防治條例的規定？"],["徐署長榮彬：跟委員說明，原則上在我們的應施檢疫物裡面，這是屬於一個活動物，它是一個產品，是需要來申請的。"],["李委員坤城：他有申請嗎？"],["徐署長榮彬：他沒有申請。"],["李委員坤城：可以帶進來嗎？"],["徐署長榮彬：當然不能帶進來。"],["李委員坤城：因為這個事情是一個禮拜之前的，請問一下你們有去查嗎？"],["徐署長榮彬：後來我們有請同仁去追查，因為這個產品是夾帶進來的，我們之前沒有當場搜到，後來去查，那個產品已經沒有辦法去……"],["李委員坤城：可是他有影片啊！"],["徐署長榮彬：有影片，所以我們是追查那個人，就是請當事人來說明，這會有所謂的罰責。"],["李委員坤城：有沒有找當事人來做說明？"],["徐署長榮彬：我們分署的同仁有去訪談。"],["李委員坤城：有做訪談了？那有沒有確認，他的確是從中國帶回來這個東西？"],["徐署長榮彬：這部分我可能還要再確認一下，因為這部分的訪談紀錄我還沒有看到。"],["李委員坤城：你瞭解一下，等一下跟本席報告一下結果是怎麼樣，好不好？因為他已經違反了我們的動物傳染病防治條例了嘛，對不對？"],["徐署長榮彬：對，它是應實施的檢疫物，不能帶進來。"],["李委員坤城：現在尤其是暑假又快到了，我也很擔心暑假到了之後，往返兩岸的人會愈來愈多，怎麼去防範類似這種帶回來……我認為他是知道，但還故意在他的直播節目說什麼是從中國帶回來的，所以怎麼去防範？因為暑假就快到了，有可能兩岸來往比較頻繁而發生類似這樣的情況。"],["徐署長榮彬：跟委員說明，當事人知不知道這個不能帶進來，我不曉得，但原則上我們在宣導方面會再強化，可能是在出入境的人流當中再強化，因為有一些人不曉得，以前我們的國人同胞其實很少會帶這種所謂的「活珠子」進來，以前我們對東南亞鴨仔蛋這部分的規定就很明確，所以在東南亞的旅客都瞭解這個不能帶，但是中國的「活珠子」之前很少人有聽過，所以這個我們在宣導方面會加強。"],["李委員坤城：這算是活體的啊！"],["徐署長榮彬：原則上、理論上它是有加熱，其實加熱也不行，在活動物的檢疫物裡面，如果有加工也要經過申請。"],["李委員坤城：這個也不能因為他不知道就不罰啊！"],["徐署長榮彬：當然要罰，只是我不曉得當事人知不知道，可能有些民眾也不曉得。"],["李委員坤城：所以你們要加強宣傳，但我是認為他不可能不知道這個是違法的啦！難道我們之前的宣傳都是做假的嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我想這件事的處理是，剛才我們防檢署署長也提過了，他們的分署會去訪談，訪談後如果確定他是從中國帶回的，雖然當下已經沒有那個實證了，但是如果在筆錄過程中，他……"],["李委員坤城：但是影片有啊！"],["陳部長駿季：對，但有時候他會說影片造假、他隨便說說的，所以變成他如果在真正的筆錄過程裡面，確認他也承認他是從中國帶進來的話，就會依照相關的處罰規定去處罰。第二個部分就是，我們會在機場邊境更加強宣導，我覺得我們現在很重視肉類製品，把那個帶進來的旅客慢慢就愈來愈低了。","現在像這種的，有一點加熱，讓人家覺得好像是可以的，對於這個誤解的部分，我們會用圖卡或是用其他的方式讓更多人知道，這個我們會來努力。"],["李委員坤城：好，請署長去查一下，看你們訪談的結果怎麼樣，今天跟本席報告一下。","我再跟部長請教一下，美國有查到一種有毒的真菌──禾穀鐮孢菌，這個就是……"],["陳部長駿季：禾穀鐮刀菌。"],["李委員坤城：這個走私到美國去，他們認為這是一種潛在農業恐怖主義的武器，我也記得幾年前臺灣也有類似這種案子，當然不是這種菌，就是從中國那邊進一些不明的種子、土壤來到臺灣，不曉得部長知不知道這件事情？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，正式的學名是「禾穀鐮刀菌」而不是「禾穀鐮孢菌」，這個菌在臺灣其實已經有發生的紀錄了，包括在小麥、玉米，還有在稻米都有發生這樣的情況，最主要這是禾本科的，而它致病的病源不會比我們稻熱病的病源還強，所以它目前在檢疫的規定裡面不是應施檢疫的項目之一。"],["李委員坤城：那為什麼美國認為它是一種……"],["陳部長駿季：我要講的第二個重點是，那是因為它附著在植物上，種子帶進來對個別的危害比較輕微，後續可以防治處理，但是如果純粹拿這個菌種，把菌種帶進來的話，就有可能像剛才委員提到的，會變成一種灰色攻擊，就是說它可以混在任何的方式去做特意撒播的時候，在短時間之內就會變成大面積的危害，那樣的情況可能就會造成一些恐慌或者是……"],["李委員坤城：這個在臺灣之前有發生過嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：有這個病，但是沒有被人用這種濃縮的菌種去做惡意散布，這個是沒有啦！但是我們可能也要預防，所以後續我也會要求防檢署未來針對X光檢驗的時候，因為它的包裝應該會比較特殊，如有看到就要特別去加強查處，這是第一個部分。","回歸到田間的時候，我們目前對這株菌的防治方法都有一些現有的防治技術跟防治的藥劑，主要的品種像水稻或玉米，都有一些抗病的品種，這樣也會降低萬一被惡意傳播的時候，也會有基本的抗性。"],["李委員坤城：所以基本上如果這種有進來的話，在臺灣是有技術去克服它的蔓延？"],["陳部長駿季：對，因為它本身就已經存在臺灣了。"],["李委員坤城：OK，署長請回。我再請教一下農業金融署的李署長。","請教一下，央行從去年開始就陸陸續續提出一些打房的措施，其中有位央行的理事提到，有關土建融的貸款或是一些民間的貸款有沒有可能跑到農會信用部去？所以我想請問一下，大概從去年年底到現在，有關農漁會信用部關於土建融的貸款，你們是不是有所謂的農安貸款嗎？這個比例有增加嗎？"],["李署長聰勇：跟委員報告，農安貸款最近一年每個月承作的件數和金額是大概相當，並沒有明顯的增加。"],["李委員坤城：沒有明顯的增加？"],["李署長聰勇：對，另外，針對信用部承作土建融的情況，我們每個月都有在追蹤，也都有在督導，以上。"],["李委員坤城：不是，我是說有沒有成長的比例，比如從去年9月到現在一年的時間有沒有成長？"],["李署長聰勇：相關的比例是不是可以會後再提供給委員？不過我們每個月都有在注意。"],["李委員坤城：就你的印象所及有成長嗎？"],["李署長聰勇：應該是大概差不多。"],["李委員坤城：差不多，沒有特別的成長，沒有因為銀行那邊比較難貸款，所以他跑來我們農漁會信用部貸款？"],["李署長聰勇：因為農安貸款是從兩年前開始推動，第一年的時候成長的速度比較快，這一年已經有趨緩的現象。"],["李委員坤城：好，你再把相關的數字給我，因為我查到的資料，至少到去年年底是有增加的，但是你認為這個屬於……"],["李署長聰勇：正常現象。"],["李委員坤城：還算是正常現象，你把相關數字提供給本席參考，好不好？"],["李署長聰勇：好。"],["李委員坤城：謝謝部長、謝謝署長。"],["主席：謝謝。"],["主席（張委員嘉郡代）：接下來請謝衣鳯委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":140,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-19,20-3","speakers":["謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","林德福","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴瑞隆","林岱樺","郭國文","陳亭妃","李坤城","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","陳超明","鍾佳濱","邱志偉","徐富癸","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","李彥秀","麥玉珍","黃珊珊","呂玉玲","林思銘","羅明才","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":63,"meetingDate":["2025-06-11"],"gazette_id":"1145901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟、財政兩委員會第3次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、本院委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「農業保險法第十條條文修正草案」案；二、本院委員邱\n若華等21人擬具「農業保險法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案；三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具\n「農業保險法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1145901_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}