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45,"end":338.019,"text":"風險值一變高的時候保費就會變高保費變高的時候農民看到這個保費也不想保了所以變成一個惡性循環但是隨著時間拉長你的保險本身的數據的累積夠多的時候就能夠趨近於一個比較合理的風險值而且我們會看就像剛才委員有提到的"},{"start":338.399,"end":357.3,"text":"如果商業型保單現在平均的理賠率47那47我剛才說的好的理賠率應該是70到80包括可以扣除它的成本那如果比較低的話我們就會希望它能夠降低保費做一個動態的調整那這個東西就是我們現在在努力的"},{"start":357.5,"end":379.983,"text":"但是對啊這是你們農業部期待的方向嗎但是商業保險這些保險公司有沒有辦法共同配合國家的政策嗎這也是我們在下一波應該要共同來檢討的嗎那你說到了去年的我看到你說去年我們的天然災害救助的八十幾億"},{"start":381.164,"end":403.62,"text":"去年的災損是多少錢我的資料只有到112年112年是150億左右那隨著氣候變遷的條件因此加劇的情況下會不會導致於我們天然災害的這個受損的金額越來越高呢你有觀察到相關的趨勢嗎"},{"start":405.485,"end":423.721,"text":"這個趨勢一定是逐步的上升啦等於說我們現在的像去年上個颱風那今年還沒有到颱風季真的颱風來我們已經因為低溫有沒有造成一些開花不結果的這個品項公告的品項有超過60項已經蠻高了表示說"},{"start":425.852,"end":440.422,"text":"就是極端的天后造成農業經營不確定性越來越高這個越來越高的時候以去年大概農損大概500多億那我相信今年也不會太低啦以現在的天后來講也不會太低所以"},{"start":441.122,"end":455.952,"text":"當我們加入了農業保險這樣的項目能不能共同的來就是說來幫助我們涵蓋所有受災農民的這樣子的一個就是"},{"start":456.892,"end":474.622,"text":"受災的金額有沒有辦法共同來協助這就是我們未來的目標我們會再跟商業保險公司剛才也有委員提到農會也是一個可以承保的單位那農會跟農民的互動會更好也許我們可以共同努力還有一個重點就是"},{"start":475.402,"end":493.536,"text":"中央跟地方因為農業部現在出百分一般都出二分之一那有些品項是地區型的品項地方政府會再加碼甚至於加了百分之三十百分之四十所以農民有時候只負擔百分之十百分之二十所以這個比例在這個法定其實"},{"start":494.617,"end":509.718,"text":"我覺得它不會影響到中央跟地方的合作啦所以後續我想我們一定會透過中央跟地方的合作如果適當的品項的時候看怎麼樣去協助農民來做這個分擔如果風險高的話也許它的比例可以提高一點"},{"start":510.379,"end":525.693,"text":"好還有你說了你去年你就答應我了今年你三個豬瘟都拔針了你說我們拔針的時候台灣的稻谷是不是可以輸到日本"},{"start":526.725,"end":542.638,"text":"臺灣在什麼 稻谷 稻桿對 我們現在也在處理這個區塊因為臺灣的稻草啦對 稻草 稻桿嘛 做榻榻米的那個我們現在已經在談了因為當初他們有一個理由就是因為我們還有這些傳統豬瘟存在"},{"start":544.099,"end":568.807,"text":"那現在沒有了包括我們的豬肉的生煎豬肉的削日本還有相關的稻草的削日其實他們也蠻需要業者蠻需要的做榻榻米啊那些東西所以我們同步已經在跟他們在談而且我們自己也可以處理我們的農費嘛對不對減少減少那個人家燒稻感吧委員關憲的我們一直在做啦那現在目前進行了怎樣喔談判的東西齁"},{"start":570.285,"end":594.553,"text":"還要再跟他們爐啦還沒爐成功是不是這個要繼續努力啦還有啊剛才有委員提到我們彰化的194號米是你們農改廠出來的啊是不是是不是也應該要共同的推銷到日本嘛它的那個米相跟傳統的日本米的米相是不一樣的不是月光米的那種品種我跟委員報告我們現在有個想法就是"},{"start":595.333,"end":622.91,"text":"我們會針對不同地區的特色米會建立地區的品牌然後會跟日方的通路做連結像今年二月初我們就邀請了日方的幾個大的商社來台灣然後我們有做了一個簡單的媒合讓他們了解台灣到底有多少種米讓他們試吃可是他們有擴大嘛對不對我們台灣米蔬日有擴大對不對"},{"start":624.062,"end":649.653,"text":"沒有 擴大是固定的但是如果說我們的族群鎖定在比較高端的話它的配額外的關稅就算比較高那個售價還是有利潤的啦好那這個部分再麻煩你協助好不好會 一定會要協助我們彰化有非常多的米喔都是可以適合去外銷到日本去的而且要建立特有的品牌啦這個我想我們會來努力好 那那個美國的對等關稅7月8號會談完嗎我們"},{"start":653.756,"end":675.705,"text":"會談完嗎?台美的關稅現在正在談判中那農業部的立場還是一致的就是在確保糧食安全產業永續的情形之下我們會尋求一個雙贏貿易雙贏的一個方法那我們不會放棄水稻讓它變成外界所說的關稅會不會最後要拿我們的農業去換"},{"start":677.086,"end":697.353,"text":"我想我想總統已經宣示了很多次的包括院長也說的農民農漁民優先我們絕對不會犧牲農業來換取工業的一個利益那這個部分一定是國家整體考量那農業部有農業部的堅持我們也一定會堅持那7月8號會出來嗎照理論上應該要一定要出來對啊會嗎"},{"start":703.544,"end":718.467,"text":"我相信會吧會啊我相信因為美國就三個月嘛三個月他就一定要處理啊你覺得會出來嗎那我覺得我們現在正在做積極的談判啊所以你覺得7月8號就是會出來了我希望"},{"start":719.54,"end":730.051,"text":"什麼時候出來不是重點出來的結果是我們能夠大家都很開心的對那才是重點對所以你也不確定7月8號因為談判還在進行當中是不是對好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":675,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（11時21分）謝謝主席，我想要請陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：部長，對於農業保險的修正，在六年以後降低補助可以達60%的上限，我有看到你說你不建議拿掉，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：因為六年快到了，所以我們必須要來討論，今天很多委員所講的就是覆蓋率不高的問題，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你認為拿掉60%的上限，對於法律沒有一個確定性，讓公務人員也沒有遵循的標準，那我們還有幾種修法？就像我們剛才提到的，畢竟目前農業保險的保單品項沒有辦法涵蓋全方面，例如，今年彰化縣的荔枝因為低溫著果不成，導致產量受損，但是過去農業保險的保單內容只有就氣溫太高等相關性提出相關的保單，而沒有對於氣溫太低造成著果不易產生產果量不足的情況，給予保單的內容，在這個部分你們未來怎麼樣提供相關的保單呢？"],["陳部長駿季：非常謝謝委員的提問，特別是委員提出這樣一個案子，其實也讓我們有機會能夠重新去思考，因為委員的版本把六年以下劃掉了以後，第二項又加了前項要去做滾動檢討，這樣子前項變成只有前面五年而已，但是前面五年已經過了……"],["謝委員衣鳯：還是我們增加六年或者是……"],["陳部長駿季：所以我的意思是把它留著，第二項加入要做滾動檢討，這是第一個。第二個部分，委員覺得重要的精神，我們有catch到，我們要協助在某一個條件之下，讓農民的保費能夠少繳一點，我們是希望用什麼條件，我舉個例子，他如果每年都是從事同樣作物保險的時候，相對地，他的保費是可以打折的，我們用保費打折的概念會讓農民有另外一個誘因，就是我不是跟天氣對賭，今年好像颱風會來，我就來投保，明年好像機會不大就不投保，我希望他們是持續性的投保，這樣子保險的覆蓋率，也就是保險分攤風險的程度會變大。他如果連續兩年或三年都有保的話，保費的打折比例可以調整，這樣其實也達到委員的目的，因為保費打折了以後，等於政府增加補助，其實也是達到同樣的目的。但是對農民來講，不會造成農民認為這都是由政府來出就好，他就不要去管理，不要去幹什麼，我就等到……"],["謝委員衣鳯：可是問題是目前我們在涵蓋率不足的情況下，我們已經到了六年要降低保費補助只能60%的上限，對於農民的投保率以及我們希望拉高農業保險的覆蓋率，會不會也有相關的影響？農民也會覺得未來整個保費的補助以及相關誘因不足的情況下，我們怎麼樣增加農民的投保率，有可能他們就不要投保，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：對，所以我才會說，我們現在更重要的作為是提高保單的品質，去設計一些真正符合農民需求的保單，而且每一張保單……"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，你提到了設計保單，今天我們金管會的保險局也有來，對於農業保險的保單設計，產業界所有保險公司會不會不願意共同投入？"],["陳部長駿季：我先跟委員說明，也請金管會等一下再說明，現在我們遇到的商業保險公司，其實都還滿樂意配合政策的，現在很重要的一點就是我們保險風險過去累積的資料並不夠多，所以它在有限的資料要去設計的時候，那個風險值會變高，風險值一變高，保費就會變高，當保費變高的時候，農民看到這個保費也不想保了，所以變成一個惡性循環。但是隨著時間拉長，保險本身的數據累積夠多的時候，就能夠趨近於一個比較合理的風險值，而且我們會看，就像剛才委員有提到的，商業型保單現在平均的理賠率是47%，我剛才說好的理賠率應該是70%到80%，包括扣除他的成本，如果理賠率比較低的話，我們就會希望它能夠降低保費，來做一個動態調整，這個部分就是我們現在在努力的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，這是我們農業部期待的方向，但是這些商業保險公司有沒有辦法共同配合國家的政策，這也是我們在下一波應該要共同來檢討的。你提到去年我們的天然災害救助八十幾億，去年的災損是多少錢？我的資料只有到112年，112年是150億左右，隨著氣候變遷條件因子加劇的情況下，會不會導致我們天然災害受損的金額越來越高呢？你有觀察到相關的趨勢嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：這個趨勢一定是逐步地上升，像去年有3個颱風，今年還沒有到颱風季或真的颱風來，我們已經因為低溫造成一些開花不結果的狀況，公告的品項就超過60項，已經滿高的，表示極端天候造成農業經營的不確定性越來越高，去年農損將近五百多億，我相信今年也不會太低，以現在的天候來講也不會太低。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以當我們加入了農業保險的項目，能不能共同來幫助、涵蓋所有受災農民的受災金額，有沒有辦法共同來協助？這就是我們未來的目標，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們會再跟商業保險公司討論，剛才也有委員提到，農會也是一個可以承保的單位，農會跟農民的互動會更好，也許我們可以共同努力。還有一個重點，中央跟地方，因為農業部一般都出二分之一，有些品項是地區型的品項，地方政府會再加碼，甚至加了30%、40%，所以農民有時候只負擔10%、20%，這個比例其實我覺得不會影響到中央跟地方的合作。後續我們一定會透過中央跟地方的合作，如果有適當的品項，我們再看怎麼樣去協助農民來做分擔，如果風險高的話，也許它的比例可以提高一點。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，還有你說的去年你就答應我了，今年你3個豬瘟都拔針了，你說我們拔針的時候，臺灣的稻穀是不是可以輸到日本？"],["陳部長駿季：臺灣的什麼？"],["謝委員衣鳯：稻穀，稻稈那個……"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們現在也在……"],["謝委員衣鳯：對不對？農廢。"],["陳部長駿季：也在處理這個區塊，因為臺灣的稻草……"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，稻草，就是稻稈嘛！做榻榻米的嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在已經在談了，因為當初他們有一個理由就是因為我們還有這些傳統豬瘟存在，現在沒有了，包括我們的生鮮豬肉銷日本，還有稻草銷日，其實他們業者蠻需要的，做榻榻米等那些東西。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對啊！他們有需求嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：所以我們已經同步跟他們在談了。"],["謝委員衣鳯：而且我們自己也可以處理我們的農廢嘛，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["謝委員衣鳯：減少人家燒稻稈嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：委員關切的，我們一直在做啦！"],["謝委員衣鳯：現在進行的怎樣？"],["陳部長駿季：談判的東西還要再跟他們「盧」啦！"],["謝委員衣鳯：還沒「盧」成功是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：這個要繼續努力啦！"],["謝委員衣鳯：還有剛才有委員提到，我們彰化的194號米是你們農改場出來的，是不是？是不是也應該要共同推銷到日本嘛！它的米相跟傳統日本米的米相是不一樣的，不是越光米的品種。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我跟委員報告，我們現在有個想法就是，我們會針對不同地區的特色米建立地區品牌，然後會跟日方的通路做連結，像今年2月初，我們就邀請了日方的幾個大商社來臺灣，然後我們做了一個簡單的媒合，讓他們了解臺灣到底有多少種米，讓他們試吃，然後做媒合。"],["謝委員衣鳯：可是他們有quota嘛！對不對？我們臺灣米輸日有quota，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，quota是固定的，但是如果我們的族群鎖定在比較高端的話，就算它配額外的關稅比較高，售價還是有利潤的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：這個部分再麻煩你協助，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：會，一定會協助。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們彰化有非常多的米都是適合外銷到日本的。"],["陳部長駿季：對，而且要建立特有的品牌，這個我們會來努力。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，美國的對等關稅7月8號會談完嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我們臺美的關稅現在正在談判中，農業部的立場還是一致的，就是在確保糧食安全、產業永續的前提之下，我們會尋求貿易雙贏的方法，我們不會放棄水稻，讓它變成外界所說的零關稅。"],["謝委員衣鳯：會不會最後要拿我們的農業去換？"],["陳部長駿季：總統已經宣示了很多次，包括院長也說了，農漁民優先嘛！我們絕對不會犧牲農業來換取工業的利益，這個部分一定是國家整體考量，農業部有農業部的堅持，我們也一定會堅持。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那7月8日會出來嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：理論上應該一定要出來啦！"],["謝委員衣鳯：會嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我相信會吧！"],["謝委員衣鳯：會啊？"],["陳部長駿季：我相信，因為美國就3個月嘛！3個月他就一定要處理。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你覺得會出來嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在正在做積極的談判。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你覺得7月8號會出來？"],["陳部長駿季：什麼時候出來不是重點，出來的結果是我們大家都能夠很開心，那才是重點。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，所以你也不確定7月8號？"],["陳部長駿季：因為談判還在進行當中。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":140,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-19,20-3","speakers":["謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","林德福","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴瑞隆","林岱樺","郭國文","陳亭妃","李坤城","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","陳超明","鍾佳濱","邱志偉","徐富癸","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","李彥秀","麥玉珍","黃珊珊","呂玉玲","林思銘","羅明才","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":63,"meetingDate":["2025-06-11"],"gazette_id":"1145901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟、財政兩委員會第3次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、本院委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「農業保險法第十條條文修正草案」案；二、本院委員邱\n若華等21人擬具「農業保險法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案；三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具\n「農業保險法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1145901_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}