{"error":false,"id":["162441"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":162441,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162441","日期":"2025-06-11","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-3-35-19","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":3,"會次":19,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-06-11T11:22:29+08:00","結束時間":"2025-06-11T11:38:16+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:47","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5b5dae1827dbf6c959a191cc5d2637fc465e86193f4d4ac4643b132f871dcdd8a4b7ee112536bc485ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"11:22:29 - 11:38:16","會議時間":"2025-06-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國防部報告「海空戰力提升計畫採購進度及執行成效」，並備質詢。二、處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議，國防部主管預算凍結案等70案。【6月11日及12日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.4697187500000001,"end":7.9790937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.586593750000002,"end":14.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.488468750000003,"end":15.825968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.011593750000003,"end":19.825343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.825343750000002,"end":19.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.090968750000002,"end":21.934718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.86284375,"end":23.402843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.95971875,"end":33.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.46034375,"end":44.445968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.93534375,"end":51.094718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.719093750000006,"end":53.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.01409375,"end":56.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.99659375,"end":59.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.835968750000006,"end":63.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.04221875,"end":67.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.27784375,"end":69.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.43784375,"end":70.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.45471875,"end":70.95659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.92284375,"end":76.03596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.03596875000001,"end":76.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.08221875000001,"end":77.09909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.09909375000001,"end":81.09846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.52034375000001,"end":90.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.04221875,"end":98.59784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.50909375,"end":106.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.44534375,"end":102.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.71534375,"end":102.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.79909375000001,"end":110.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.31721875000001,"end":123.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.29409375,"end":126.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.96909375000001,"end":130.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.74909375000001,"end":131.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.03159375,"end":137.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.08221875,"end":131.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.15721875,"end":146.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.88534375,"end":149.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.95659375,"end":164.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.98596875,"end":153.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.39909375000002,"end":156.19221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.39346875,"end":164.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.57471875000002,"end":184.00221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.09971875000002,"end":181.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.74471875,"end":188.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.78659375,"end":187.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.00159375,"end":216.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.75221875000003,"end":218.27534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.37659375,"end":221.29596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.08034375000003,"end":224.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.63721875000002,"end":224.65409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.41346875000002,"end":242.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.00221875000003,"end":240.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.68534375000002,"end":243.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.31346875000003,"end":248.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.49909375000001,"end":244.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.32159375,"end":246.59159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.09346875000003,"end":257.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.56534375,"end":253.34159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.73346875000004,"end":261.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.72846875,"end":271.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.02221875000004,"end":272.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.07284375,"end":274.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.40159375,"end":287.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.74971875,"end":289.38659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.38659375000003,"end":302.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.79409375,"end":302.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.00471875,"end":303.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.12284375,"end":308.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.03346875,"end":312.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.33659375,"end":319.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.47471875,"end":326.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.84909375,"end":332.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.00846875,"end":335.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.60721875,"end":339.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.80909375000005,"end":341.20971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.10409375,"end":360.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.72784375000003,"end":346.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.32909375,"end":375.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.85221875,"end":362.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.29846875000004,"end":367.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.14221875000004,"end":368.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.77471875000003,"end":371.19659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.20471875000004,"end":374.14971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.66846875000005,"end":386.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.64159375,"end":389.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.23596875000004,"end":392.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.42971875,"end":397.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.43721875,"end":408.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.14846875,"end":461.62971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.62971875000005,"end":469.22346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.56096875000003,"end":470.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.72534375000004,"end":473.50971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.69534375,"end":488.95034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.34284375000004,"end":502.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.53159375,"end":495.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.38284375,"end":507.51284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.52971875000003,"end":512.6428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.69346875,"end":523.4428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.69596875,"end":526.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.1215937500001,"end":558.0534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.13784375,"end":583.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.87221875,"end":595.1784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.4653437500001,"end":597.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.62534375,"end":600.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.5109687500001,"end":601.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.6415937500001,"end":603.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.70034375,"end":607.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.6828437500001,"end":608.6953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":608.9822187500001,"end":610.7709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.85534375,"end":611.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.9015937500001,"end":613.5047187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.53846875,"end":615.5634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.96846875,"end":636.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":636.5559687500001,"end":639.2222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":639.6103437500001,"end":640.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.24721875,"end":678.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":677.4272187500001,"end":678.8784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":678.79409375,"end":678.9965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":678.9965937500001,"end":679.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":679.0303437500002,"end":706.3172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":679.06409375,"end":680.1609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.9453437500001,"end":685.4428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":706.62096875,"end":714.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":714.67034375,"end":737.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":737.97471875,"end":738.9028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":738.16034375,"end":738.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":738.97034375,"end":771.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":772.1128437500001,"end":795.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":795.34971875,"end":795.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":795.9909687500001,"end":796.0078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":796.0078437500001,"end":805.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":803.80409375,"end":804.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":805.4578437500002,"end":806.9597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":807.1115937500001,"end":807.6853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":807.6853437500001,"end":842.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":807.7022187500002,"end":809.5078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":842.5659687500001,"end":860.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":858.8840937500001,"end":867.2709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":866.68034375,"end":878.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":877.0247187500001,"end":878.2734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":878.30721875,"end":878.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":878.37471875,"end":878.8640937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":878.8640937500002,"end":892.3134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":892.24596875,"end":896.5828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":897.0890937500001,"end":898.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":899.3503437500001,"end":900.6497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":901.0209687500001,"end":917.9128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":917.96346875,"end":922.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":923.09346875,"end":926.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":926.46846875,"end":929.7422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":929.3372187500001,"end":941.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":934.72034375,"end":935.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":941.2509687500001,"end":943.6978437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":943.6978437500002,"end":943.9678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":943.9678437500002,"end":944.0522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":944.0522187500001,"end":945.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":944.0690937500001,"end":944.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":944.9634687500002,"end":945.26721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.649,"end":16.545,"text":"主席 在場的委員先進 列席的政務機關事長 官員 會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者 女士先生有請顧部長 還有黃副參謀總長執行官 以及中科院的李中將 李院長有請部長 還有處長 謝謝 還有院長 謝謝所有中委"},{"start":21.361,"end":32.371,"text":"部長好那麼我們副參謀長長好久不見還有我們的李院長好那今天呢我們來談的就是最近很紅的無人載具來 我們想看"},{"start":33.53,"end":56.664,"text":"最近 今天到今天為止 還在辦一個民間自辦的台海兵推結果媒體的報紙呢 有兩種評價一個是說 哎呀 這個美日台重大兵推 落差結果呢 台灣組拿不出辦法出來另外一個是 台海兵推 那個中共挑釁 我們按兵不動請問 這個有 部長知道這個兵推嗎有在關注嗎"},{"start":59.864,"end":75.971,"text":"我想我們了解有民間這樣辦的一個那你也了解有這三個國家的一些退役的將領來參加吧當然相關的訊息也有掌握那你覺得他們這樣的兵推是不是有助於全民對於我們戰略模擬的一個認知"},{"start":77.408,"end":98.391,"text":"我想相關的這個民間的兵推,自辦的兵推,我們在他們兵推結束之後,我們會索取相關的資料,都會納入我們的參考。是的,我想部長這樣非常開明,因為國防不是只有職業軍人的事情,不是國防部的事情,是全民都要來關注,是不是?"},{"start":99.594,"end":109.42,"text":"是 我想大家都關心國航是一件好事好 來 最近在上週最熱門的就是烏克蘭的豬網行動部長你認為它是一個敵後滲透攻擊還是一個戰場的對敵反制我想這個應該顯示就是說無人機的這個運用在烏克蘭戰爭裡面顯示它已經產生了一些"},{"start":125.339,"end":146.543,"text":"他對其他國家的參考應該是已經起了一些關鍵性的思維的轉換然後整個作戰的思維都值得我們來加以參佐簡單用兩個話這個會造成的是說台灣可以用無人機驅逐中國還是中國可以用無人機來恐攻台灣你覺得哪一個可能性比較大"},{"start":152.971,"end":163.878,"text":"我看的是一身冷汗,你可能不變膽,有人看的,哇,烏克蘭好啊,以小即大,但是我看的是剛好相反,我覺得台灣更容易陷入這樣的一個敵後的滲透攻擊,你認為呢?"},{"start":165.832,"end":181.546,"text":"我想對於共軍各型無人機的一些研製跟應用的這個狀況,我們都要納入評估。那我們延續之後,我們對於可能的威脅,我們都有掌握。"},{"start":184.828,"end":208.038,"text":"不但是要掌握,還要進行研析,然後要加以應對其實這個無人機的生產攻擊,它會開始走向都市游擊對話這是一個媒體的報導,用3D列印就可以幫一個恐怖組織去投射彈藥這邊也提到了中國本身也開始設置了一個無人機的專修室換言之說,今天所謂的俗稱過去稱的第五重對照潛伏到台灣來以台灣現有的開放"},{"start":209.719,"end":216.186,"text":"民間的材料腐蝕極德只要有人員進來他就可以自行組裝很多不需要大型的軍武工廠是不是這樣子很有可能啊他在3D列印在你台灣這邊做啦"},{"start":225.94,"end":240.347,"text":"跟委員報告就是說,我想對於這樣子的一個無人機的整個的運用依照這個烏克蘭之前發動的,它必須要花費相當長的一個時間對,潛伏很久,籌劃很久沒有錯,它需要相當的潛伏跟運量"},{"start":244.389,"end":260.862,"text":"物資的調度人員的安排然後來一個奇襲的攻擊對不對所以我們有相當程度的掌握我想我們會來也要來緩緩這樣子的一個狀況但是以台灣目前的情況要製造無人機不成問題但要比較難取得"},{"start":261.826,"end":287.085,"text":"所以這種情況之下如果敵方要做敵後的滲透攻擊他首先的就是彈藥讓他來取得是我們軍品彈藥的防竊或者說杜絕走私製造就變得很重要軍品彈藥防竊是國防部責務旁帶杜絕走私製造這個就需要其他行政部門包括海巡包括警方的配合請問國防部有沒有思考到這個部分對於在他們潛入到台灣來取得在民間取得暴利業務的這個可能性有沒有辦法去防堵"},{"start":287.825,"end":302.416,"text":"有沒有做一個這樣的管理跟思維就我們現在的槍八彈藥刀血管制條例的這個管制上來講的話彈藥的生產製造尤其火工部門的話都是軍備局跟工科院才可以製造嘛所以它的防竊很重要嘛"},{"start":303.257,"end":331.002,"text":"怕被人家偷走嘛好萊塢的電影都是去偷軍火來幹恐怖攻擊嘛對不對也就是說我們民間並沒有這樣子的一個彈藥的囤儲是所以說未來的軍品彈藥防竊非常重要避免被對後做敵後滲透攻擊的時候拿來取材好 往下看所以在另外我們面對這個機敏設施關鍵設施預防斬首擊殺無人機我們要軟硬兼施嘛軟殺跟硬殺嘛但是軟殺跟硬殺現在發生一個問題了光纖導引的無人機它沒辦法軟殺怎麼辦"},{"start":333.035,"end":358.312,"text":"我們有沒有做各種的毛與頓的砂盤推演不可能像美軍一樣為了打兩百美元的無人機用三百萬美元的飛彈去打嘛 不可能嘛反制無人機的這個部分現在當然一方面進展得也相當快就是說如同委員在這邊有提到的這個軟砂的部分 硬砂的部分那硬砂的部分當然還有包括有這個煉炮還有這個雷射等等的這些高"},{"start":361.553,"end":383.022,"text":"高科技的這種進步現在都在我們密注關注的範圍也在我們要努力來籌貨的這個部分所以反制無人機確實是我們現在當然的一個建軍的一個重點項目之一就有人說他用光鮮的因為光鮮很貴光鮮的無人機來跟你做群攻不划算他用光鮮的把你的耳目先打掉"},{"start":383.702,"end":407.873,"text":"讓你的軟殺或讓你的硬殺沒有辦法去找到目標但是光線也有一定的距離的限制所以很怕他的敵後陣後攻擊我們怕的就是這一點他這個部分就是他要到底的這個作戰地境所以呢就是說我們現在在說是不是要有一個無人機載具的古土防衛學院這樣一個民間智庫如果有人在推動這樣的民間智庫國防部的態度是怎麼樣是支持還是不樂見"},{"start":409.461,"end":435.828,"text":"我想無人載具的部分我們整個是我們軍民整合現在裡面重要的一環所以我們不只是我們中科院也好軍備局也好那我們現在不但要釋出這個相關的這個關鍵的一些技術給到民間那我們也希望跟民間一起來合作那最重要當然就是說我們要建立我們這個相關的無人載具的一個自准能量"},{"start":436.408,"end":457.476,"text":"那另外也要引進相關不同的科技來進行這個迭代創新因為現在不只是無人機還有無人艇然後剩下水下的無人載具這個都可能是在隨著這樣子的一個科技的進步那麼形成這樣一定的戰力之後,納入我們籌購的範圍之後"},{"start":459.137,"end":487.565,"text":"可以應用成為我們作戰應用我想這裡要提醒部長跟各位這個國防重要的領導人其實呢無人機不是只是一個裝備也不是一個科技它會整個顛覆我們的戰法跟戰術也就是說就跟我們的潛塘槍改為有後方裝彈之後整個部邊的陣列就不一樣了所以這個部分不能只是有裝備科技的延伸還要有整個使用思維的改變那這點我是跟部長做這樣的建議"},{"start":488.645,"end":507.104,"text":"無人機確實是有部署靈活還有一個戰術運用的彈性甚至有通訊中繼等等這樣子的一些功能特性所以它確實是對戰力裡面現在重要的一環所以不是只有裝備跟科技的研發而已還有包括運用的技巧所以現在除了這個之外我們軍品採購的思維也要改變我們過去這幾年來"},{"start":513.01,"end":525.122,"text":"立法院支持我們國防預算編了很多購置無人機無人載具的預算但是這個買來是當作編裝的裝備使用但是編裝的裝備你知道嗎阿兵哥他是敢去動嗎掉一下下來就幾十萬幾百萬欸幾百萬欸所以也就是說我們現在採購的思維應該把訓練教育"},{"start":532.449,"end":556.114,"text":"跟未來的戰備應用做兩套的思維也就是說就像我們空軍一樣不可能一來的飛官就飛直接的一個第一線戰機他一定有教練機也一定有其他的前置的訓練所以其實要增加無人機的採購規模委外的教育訓練這一塊可以提供民間很大的商機換言之我來接受你軍方要委託的無人機的飛手訓練飛機我提供"},{"start":558.354,"end":579.723,"text":"摔壞了我負責我甚至可以找保險不要列入我們軍品當中的品項是要做維護的拿來打仗的是一個拿來訓練的是一個那這個部分呢可以大量的擴充我們軍用商規的無人機的生產也就是說我們軍事採購的那些編制數就有限嘛沒有打仗你沒有損耗你不會增加但是我們的教育訓練是經常會有損耗的"},{"start":581.284,"end":602.879,"text":"所以把教育訓練外包出去之後它的損耗自然會形成一個供應鏈下一個我們來看一下所以本土的供應鏈去紅供應鏈一定要有足夠的市場規模我之前對於軍兵採購不斷的提出如果我們沒有足夠的採購規模我們的廠商我們的國人我們的技術做得到但他不會投資就像拿光電球kimbo來說好了"},{"start":603.78,"end":619.465,"text":"目前我們無人機偵測最重要的光電球哪個地方生產最好東歐生產最好台灣要不要投入產線來製造做得到但是呢沒有那個量你沒有一年一千顆的量你投資那個產線不划算但是國防部有辦法每年買一千組嗎"},{"start":620.385,"end":640.436,"text":"不可能所以要對外去擴充這個無人機的市場對內我們要創造我們軍用商規無人機的使用機會不是打仗才來用教育訓練演習就來用那這些裝備你可以用怎樣用租賃的用教育服務租賃的不是用購買的這樣才能擴大我們無人機供應商的市場部長您同不同意"},{"start":641.557,"end":666.981,"text":"跟委員報告,現在有好幾個,您剛剛問的問題有好幾個層次,第一個是無人機的訓練這個部分我們本來就已經有出街的,我們運用一些小型損耗力高的這些無人機來進行出街的一個訓練然後進而再進階,所以我們陸軍成立無人機訓練中心,海軍陸戰隊事實上也有訓練中心,這是一塊另外擴大這個本土的供應鏈的這個部分,就是我們現在正在進行的,也就是說"},{"start":667.721,"end":680.145,"text":"要如何達到拳擊飛鴻這樣的一個概念的話包括整個不管是控制的單元或者是通訊的單元相關的這些晶片或者馬達還有電池等等這些的話我想真正能夠在地生產這個就是我們現在的目標我想現在要這個"},{"start":694.669,"end":713.785,"text":"從院裡面到國安部,然後到這個大家都在努力的事,就這樣子事實上中共也提出一個共版的,一個通用共版的無人機,也就是說不只是軍方民間,民間有一個共版的一個架構,那麼到了暫時的時候呢,我們加裝我們所需要的這個"},{"start":715.286,"end":738.231,"text":"這個軟體進去以後就可以做一個軍用,所以把這個生產的能量放入在民間然後讓民間有一個自主的能量的產生,這是我們現在正在大體研究的方向然後另外當然要打入國際的供應鏈,那這個部分我想跟其他一個周邊的國家都有相當的共識,但是詳細的情形可能不便加以說明"},{"start":738.251,"end":761.81,"text":"部長 其實您講得很完整 但我只有一個提醒因為無人採取這個很特殊它不是一個軍備的 傳統軍備 需要由軍火工廠來生產它是一個軍用可以商規 商規也可以商用所以有這麼多的民間部門 有工業技術研究院 技術中心有傳播研究中心 有其他大專院校現在我所知道有三所國立大學 就是我們分別成立的三個研發中心"},{"start":762.71,"end":786.142,"text":"這些都可以來協助商用軍規的無人機的研發當然它也有它商用的市場所以無人機的研發不一定要由中科院來我要強調一次其他的飛彈 那個民間沒有在用飛彈的啦但是無人機民間用的很多所以商用軍規 軍用商規的無人機其實可以有第二條的一個研發的一個機構所以我希望部長這邊能夠跟行政院反映我們來籌組一個無人載具的研發中心來開發這種商規的無人機的應用"},{"start":792.385,"end":806.198,"text":"這也有助於我們減輕我們中科院的負荷您同不同意是 我跟委員報告其實你講說飛彈我們民間沒有事實上中科院在生產這個飛彈的過程當中也跟民間有很多非常的合作民間沒有人在用飛彈"},{"start":808.12,"end":823.888,"text":"台積電不會拿飛彈來打因為您講的是一個最後系統或者是一個裝備的成品但我們看的不是這樣子而是看的是一個生態鏈的一個建構那這個飛彈的部分現在當然就是說你最後火工部門還是要交到這個中科研的生產"},{"start":824.808,"end":842.325,"text":"現在有一些關鍵技術也要釋放給民間,讓民間也能夠做所以無人機部分當然是裡面的重要的一環因為主建的無人機的發展是相當的日循日益所以這個部分除了火工部門之外,其他一些特別關鍵的原件這個部分當然要建立在民間嘛"},{"start":842.625,"end":861.42,"text":"所以我們從中國的例子就是因為無人機大疆全國世界的無人機市場大疆佔了絕大部分所以大疆的在初期戰爭被大量來改裝表示什麼商用的商規的都很好用所以呢有民間強大的製造產能我們軍方要使用就選擇餘地很多我的意見就是說要有民間的產能不是啦關鍵就在關鍵元件啦譬如說電池譬如說這些其實您說的關鍵電池馬達這個我們的載體的部分都OK"},{"start":871.227,"end":898.195,"text":"其實籌載的部分比較傷腦筋籌載的光電球傳輸的晶片通訊的晶片這些訊號的防害這個都是問題那是軍規的部分沒有沒有現在就是說你先用商規的部分來進行那軍規的部分呢我們會也失望一定的量人好那最後呢到了一定的時候我們再擴充我想這個部分就可以來建構了好啦那個我因為主因站起來往上一列最後那個其實為什麼要一個研發中心往上就是所謂的通信協定"},{"start":899.555,"end":911.824,"text":"產品的規格標準這些東西才是需要一個研發中心的最後兩個訴求鑑於無人載具及我們戰法的進步迅速請針對推動成立明天智庫組織無人載具的國土防衛來提出評估報告這就提報告而已喔"},{"start":915.367,"end":943.337,"text":"另外呢就於擴大採購無人機的訓練服務並且整合促成一個研發中心也請你們提個報告來評估一下可以嗎跟委員報告事實上這行政院已經在主責了那很好啊你們就把行政院主責的內容可不可以分享一份給我們看如果您需要的話因為這是由副院長在主責的部分如果您想要了解的話就我們就將相關我們有參與的部分是行政院整個在主責就跟行政院索取那就國防部提供"},{"start":943.778,"end":944.342,"text":"是 好 謝謝也謝謝主席 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}