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市長好 署長好 副署長好部長先跟你講一個不錯的消息"},{"start":43.039,"end":55.136,"text":"過去啊我們糯農一直在埋怨台紐經濟協定紐西蘭的乳製品零關稅進口衝擊到本土糯農的生計結果我們昨天幾位委員開了一個記者會謝謝師長來提供資料這幾年"},{"start":61.923,"end":90.305,"text":"零關稅之後 紐西蘭的液態乳進口量沒有增加餒市面的銷售金額也沒有下降餒反而是冰磚還原乳啊 大量增加都跑掉什麼跑到不是零售通路的那個盒裝牛奶都跑到業務通路的那個手搖飲裡面部長知不知道這個情況我每個禮拜他們都會有包括鮮乳、薄酒乳跟冰磚乳的進口量所以我說的是不是這個情況是所以你們都要補牌換店嘛 對不對"},{"start":92.037,"end":114.264,"text":"鹵農現在經常檢測不是台牛零關稅嘛是鹵廠四大品牌廠大量進口那些冰磚懷孕乳供應到業務通路加在我們手搖飲裡面而且這個占比越來越高不怪我們本土的鹵農他們的選領品牌廠說我不要跟你訂那麼多有沒有這個情況 部長"},{"start":115.906,"end":138.792,"text":"以現在來看冰莊乳大概每一年大概一萬七千多增加一萬八現在到六月六月的話它本身的量還在它這個範圍之內沒有暴增的非常厲害所以我是說農業部當時堅持鮮乳標章未來的食品安全就要以鮮乳標示這一點明年七月要開始實施請農業部繼續跟酪農宣導"},{"start":141.794,"end":149.438,"text":"請幫諾農推廣我們的鮮乳一個通路好不好我們現在就要做一定要做很好謝謝謝謝市長謝謝市長我們接下來問農保的問題其實上個月我們辦了一個考察財政委員會辦了一個考察到農會去農民就反映了很多農業保險的問題那其中就有提到這個"},{"start":162.356,"end":181.875,"text":"很多人心情天然在救助啦,但是沒有保養的品項啦或者是說在檳榔樹之間種香蕉,或者說椰子樹之間種檳榔只要有檳榔,不被認為農作物的檳榔園裡面種有保險保單的這些作物像香蕉,是不是農業保險不保現在是這樣吧"},{"start":186.884,"end":214.058,"text":"現在是這樣子,就是建做的但是你要知道,我們農民建做一個一個廠房裡面多種作物建做是一個常態,有他們的道理是不是回去評估一下,類似像這樣檳榔園裡面建做香蕉這個香蕉也可以導播,可以考慮嗎?我覺得可以,但是就是面積要重算面積要重算,應該是可行的你面積跟植株要重新計算,可以嗎?請指示署長回去研究"},{"start":215.459,"end":233.667,"text":"其實我們來看一下農友反應的問題環環相扣台灣的國平產值佔了37%一年在我們屏東的產值佔了大概32億新台幣其中你看香蕉是個重要作物但是去年的天災最近我們常常去新青天南台叫走的有雷鳳嘛 對不對有陸來嘛 有雙鴨嘛 對不對陸來跟雙鴨有多大"},{"start":240.302,"end":265.805,"text":"目前沒有嘛所以我們是不是可以說這些農民有在栽作的這些品項保單要不要擴充品項要不要增加可以嗎?可以減價嗎?我想我們對於新保單的開發當然要看它本身的過去的數據夠不夠多才能夠算它的理賠風險這是一個很重要如果說這個數據是可以開始算的話我們就會來啟動"},{"start":266.846,"end":292.94,"text":"是然後第二個部分在啟動的過程中我們過往少做的就是我們比較少去我們都是開發完了以後再去跟農民宣導其實在保單設計中就應該跟農民來做參與好所以呢您剛剛講的有幾個品項啦就這個農作物的品項要不要來開發為農業保險的保單包括說它的種植面積它的產量有沒有到一定規模產值是不是夠大因為你沒有這些基本的量不然要怎麼做嘛是"},{"start":294.902,"end":307.08,"text":"是不是說不會賠錢的才能做 有沒有這個規定不會啊 我們現在平均禮賠率是130欸我就跟你講 你看聽起來你講得很理直氣壯禮賠率130欸就是因為禮賠率130沒幫我們公司要做啦"},{"start":312.6,"end":325.39,"text":"所以我是說我們農業保險一方面我這個有點讓你為難一方面你要擴大我們作物的保單的品項內容二方面你又要找到那個保險公司你叫他怎麼都沒辦法做啦所以這個農金署要想辦法好不好要馬而好要馬不吃草"},{"start":333.2,"end":357.634,"text":"不過現在商業保端的理賠率是47%啦商業保端是47%喔?所以還是有錢賺喔?那就趕快開發啊!我們最多的就是鳳梨釋迦啦!鳳梨釋迦我知道有很多啊!那銀行覺得不好,賣你就不要做了喔?會不會這樣?我相信他們明年不會保了,因為過去平均幾年...你說保險公司他不承保了啦,是不是這個意思?那這樣怎麼辦?那是政策保險"},{"start":358.775,"end":378.388,"text":"所以政策保險所以農金屬這邊要想辦法有保險公司都是兩張包袋你如果說有很多品行都有來報有的報端料有的報端攤報端公司要做嘛你全部的報端都要料他就不愛做了嘛你們現在賣的最好的保單是什麼來往上是不是水稻是不是水稻水稻的覆蓋率怎麼樣"},{"start":379.662,"end":399.176,"text":"學到政策型的保險啊是啊啊所以呢通通要保沒有吧八成八成大概八成三八成因為你們第一個基本型的保險他不用保費都給你補了對不對政府出錢嘛一般的加強跟優質的加強分兩種嘛其實說過去高工女的不可以補嘛現在高工女的可以補嗎可以可以補農民不知道啊"},{"start":400.632,"end":409.195,"text":"應該知道 應該知道 應該啦 農糧署 我們剛剛有揣映下去啦很多農委他沒有積極去選擇啦所以這個長農 他不知道說 啊 原來喔 我們如果我們基本行的不是立法會 不用立法會喔我們那一般行的 一般加強的 跟尤其加強的 我們高工裡面也可以參加這是不是去年開始的政策對 我們的統計大概也增加了1000多公頃來投資 對"},{"start":423.9,"end":430.788,"text":"很好 表示這個政策符合農民的需求加強宣導好不好好就是說你今年開始啊 現在我有在去跟農會問 他們都不知道呢他們都不知道 喔 要怎麼做 政府補助一半呢這補助一半比較好 對不對好 來往前 我們來看"},{"start":439.057,"end":459.451,"text":"所以現在我們來看到這個保費是農民要不要投保的一個關鍵 對不對所以我們這次要審查的這個第十條是說本來的條文設計原來的農業作物保險原來在2020年的五月六月實施現在實施已經快四年多了 對不對所以有在討論說這個費率的問題為什麼當時你們這個費率五年之內的是75%第六年之後降為60%為什麼這樣寫的"},{"start":467.403,"end":494.489,"text":"我想當初的立法精神就是說在初期的時候大家對保險不是那麼那麼熟悉所以政府如果必要的時候可以補助多一點但是有五年的時間慢慢大家了解了這些這些保險的精神以後那應該回到保險的基本的就是它是一個風險的對價關係自己投資自己分擔好但是現在有條文說把後面的"},{"start":495.73,"end":506.329,"text":"60%拿掉了只有說五年以內的是多少沒有五年以後的多少如果修法改成說五年以內的75%五年之後的變成85%你覺得這樣合不合理"},{"start":508.306,"end":529.069,"text":"我跟農業部的立場基本上是 我跟你講啦 說有的這種限時優惠 時間來越少啦你超過時間來 越慢來越貴啦 大家才要參加嘛 對不對所以你們原來的設計就是前高後低 鼓勵農民趕快來參訪 對不對如果改成了前低後高 我就慢慢來啊 是不是這樣子"},{"start":530.049,"end":546.498,"text":"所以你知道了解了沒有所以我們這次第十條的修改呢如果把這個邏輯破壞掉了那就是亂修法啦所以我希望說農業部我們今天沒有主調審查我們今天是巡打大地頭 巡打而已所以說你們這個情形在我們實際上要修改的時候你們要說清楚你前陣子頂75%後陣子頂60%就希望說前陣子五年還幼肥農民關的參加 覆蓋率提高不然怎麼才會了結嘛"},{"start":556.664,"end":564.166,"text":"那如果說你後面的60%拿掉了 農民說那前面75%我就倒掉了蛋啊不可能年齡90%全部補走啊 會這樣嗎會這樣嗎 所以參與率低 保蛋的範圍趕不到農民的需求還有申訴跟協調其實不足 理賠困難這個都是目前我們農業保險推動的一個問題 是不是這樣所以現在 博定 我們要怎麼樣來推進納保作物的品項 有什麼方法"},{"start":586.787,"end":596.017,"text":"我覺得第一個我剛才也曾經說過就是我希望農民對一個作物的保險他是一個持續性的他每年都能夠投保"},{"start":597.18,"end":621.912,"text":"而不是用投機的方式看到風險高就投風險低就不投那如果持續性的投保我們可以考慮它的保費可以打折用這種方式來做一個優惠設施你要想要促銷跟行銷你的保電要促銷跟行銷所以過去我2018年到2024年五年我問了五次有三個重點第一個要有一個農業金融專屬爭議的協調機構有沒有在研議了"},{"start":624.943,"end":641.628,"text":"這個我們有在做還有我們用科技定損的方式遙測的資料庫完善災前災後的對比機制我們現在也在處理我們現在也在做也在做嘛還有呢還有一個就是希望你們這樣定期的跟農民有座談會對於農保的諮詢委員會辦理定期座談會農民意見有沒有在做"},{"start":642.652,"end":650.762,"text":"有在做但是我覺得還可以密度還可以再提高所以希望這三點本席有提出來像今天說的這個品項還有修法希望農業部繼續加油好不好好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":943,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（12時9分）主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請農業部陳部長。"],["主席：陳部長。"],["鍾委員佳濱：然後請畜牧司的李司長。"],["主席：司長。"],["鍾委員佳濱：另外，農金署李署長和農糧署的陳副署長都一併準備。"],["主席：李署長，陳副署長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長好，司長好，署長好，副署長好。部長，先跟你說一個不錯的消息，過去我們酪農一直在埋怨臺紐經濟協定，紐西蘭的乳製品零關稅進口衝擊到本土酪農的生計，結果昨天我們幾位委員開了一個記者會，謝謝司長來提供資料。這幾年零關稅之後，紐西蘭的液態乳進口量沒有增加，市面的銷售金額也沒有下降，反而是冰磚還原乳大量增加，都跑到什麼？不是跑到零售通路的盒裝牛奶，都跑到業務通路的手搖飲裡面，部長知不知道這個情況？"],["陳部長駿季：每個禮拜他們都會有包括鮮乳、保久乳跟冰磚乳的進口量。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以是不是我說的這個情況？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以你們農業部背黑鍋嘛！對不對？酪農現在訂單減少不是因為臺紐零關稅，是乳廠，四大品牌廠大量進口冰磚還原乳供應到業務通路，加在我們手搖飲裡面，而且這個占比越來越高，難怪本土酪農他們的鮮乳，品牌廠說我不要給你訂那麼多，部長，有沒有這個情況？"],["陳部長駿季：以現在來看，冰磚乳每一年大概一萬七千多噸到一萬八……"],["鍾委員佳濱：都在增加嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：現在到6月的話，它本身的量還在這個範圍之內，沒有暴增得非常厲害。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以我是說農業部當時堅持鮮乳標章，未來的食品安全就要以鮮乳標示，這是對的，明年7月1日開始實施，請農業部繼續向酪農宣導，請幫酪農推廣鮮乳的通路，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在就要做，一定要做。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，很好，謝謝，也謝謝司長。","接下來問農保的問題，其實上個月財政委員會辦了一個考察，到農會去，農民就反映了很多農業保險的問題，其中就有提到，很多可以申請天然災害救助但是沒有保險的品項，或者是說在檳榔樹之間種香蕉、椰子樹之間種檳榔，只要有檳榔，不被認為農作物的檳榔園裡面種有保險、保單的這些作物，像香蕉，是不是農業保險不保？"],["陳部長駿季：現在是這樣子，就是有間作的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：現在是這樣子，但是你們要知道，我們農民間作，一個農園裡面多種作物間作是常態，有他們的道理，是不是回去評估一下，類似像檳榔園裡面間作香蕉，香蕉也可以來投保，可以考慮嗎？評估一下。"],["陳部長駿季：我覺得可以，但是就是面積要重算。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，面積要重算。"],["陳部長駿季：面積要重算，應該是可行的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你面積跟植株要重新計算，可以嘛？"],["陳部長駿季：對，用這樣的方式，我覺得可以來評估看看。"],["鍾委員佳濱：請指示署長回去研究。","我們來看一下，農友反映的問題環環相扣，臺灣的果品產值占了37%，一年在我們屏東的產值占了大概32億新臺幣，其中香蕉是一個重要作物。但是去年的天災，最近常常去申請天然災害救助的有檸檬，有酪梨，有芒果，對不對？酪梨與芒果有保單嗎？有嗎？目前沒有嘛！所以這些農民有在栽種的品項，保單要不要擴充？品項要不要增加？可以增加嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我想我們對於新保單的開發，當然要看它本身過去的數據夠不夠多，才能夠算它的理賠風險。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對。"],["陳部長駿季：這個很重要，如果說這個數據是可以開始算的話，我們就會來啟動。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是。"],["陳部長駿季：然後第二個部分，在啟動的過程中，我們過往都是開發完了以後再去跟農民宣導，其實在保單設計中就應該讓農民來參與。"],["鍾委員佳濱：說得很好。好，所以您剛剛講的有幾個品項，就是說這個農作物的品項要不要開發為農業保險的保單，包括它的種植面積、它的產量有沒有到一定規模、產值是不是夠大，因為你沒有這些基本的量，保險沒辦法做嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：重點是，是不是不會賠錢的才能做？有沒有這個規定？不會賠錢的我們的保單才能做。"],["陳部長駿季：不會啊！我們現在平均理賠率是130%欸！"],["鍾委員佳濱：我就跟你講，你看，聽起來你講得很理直氣壯，理賠率130%欸！就是因為理賠率130%，沒有保險公司要做啦！對不對？保險公司賠錢，它怎麼會做？所以我是說我們農業保險，這個有點讓你為難，一方面你要擴大保單的作物品項內容，二方面你要找到保險公司，如果賠錢它不會做啦！你怎麼叫它都不做啦！所以農金署要想辦法，好不好？可以強人所難嗎？又要馬兒好，又要馬兒不吃草。"],["陳部長駿季：不過現在商業保單的理賠率是47%。"],["鍾委員佳濱：商業保單是47%，所以還是有錢賺，那就趕快開發啊！"],["陳部長駿季：我們賠最多的就是鳳梨釋迦。"],["鍾委員佳濱：鳳梨釋迦我知道賠很多。"],["陳部長駿季：賠得……"],["鍾委員佳濱：他們會再保嗎？明年就不要做了，會這樣嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我相信他們明年不會保了，因為過去平均幾年……"],["鍾委員佳濱：你是說保險公司不承保了，是不是這個意思？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那這樣怎麼辦？"],["陳部長駿季：那是政策保險。"],["鍾委員佳濱：政策保險，所以農金署這邊要想辦法，因為保險公司都是截長補短，如果很多品項都有來保，有的保單賠，有的保單賺，保險公司才要做嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你全部的保單都在賠，它就不要做了嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們現在賣得最好的保單是什麼？是不是水稻？水稻的覆蓋率怎麼樣？"],["陳部長駿季：水稻是政策型的保險。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是啊！所以統統要保？沒有吧！"],["陳部長駿季：大概八成三。"],["鍾委員佳濱：八成，因為你們第一個，基本型的保險他不用繳保費，都替他保了，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：政府出錢嘛！一般加強型保險與優質加強型保險，分兩種，過去說繳售公糧的不能保，現在繳售公糧的可以保嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：可以保，農民知道嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：應該知道。"],["鍾委員佳濱：應該知道，應該啦！農糧署我那天有帶他們下去，很多農會沒有積極去宣導，所以很多稻農不知道如果是基本型的不用繳保費，一般加強型與優質加強型的，有繳售公糧的也可以參加，這是不是去年開始的政策？"],["陳部長駿季：對，據我們統計，大概增加了一千多公頃來投保。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，很好！表示這個政策符合農民的需求，加強宣導，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們是去年開始，現在我去農會問，他們都不知道耶！他們都不知道原來政府有補助一半，補助一半很好，對不對？","現在我們來看，保費是農民要不要投保的一個關鍵，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以我們這次要審查的第十條，本來的條文設計，原來的農業作物保險在2020年5月通過，6月實施，現在實施已經快四年多了，所以有在討論費率的問題，為什麼當時你們這個費率5年之內的是75%，第6年之後降為60%？為什麼這樣設計？"],["陳部長駿季：我想當初的立法精神是說，在初期大家對保險不是那麼熟悉，所以政府如果必要的時候可以補助多一點，但是有5年的時間慢慢讓大家瞭解了這些保險的精神以後，應該回到保險基本的一個風險對價關係。"],["鍾委員佳濱：風險自己投資，自己分攤。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，但是現在有條文把後面的60%拿掉了，只有說5年以內的是多少，沒有5年以後的是多少，如果修法改成5年以內的75%，5年之後的變成85%，你覺得這樣合不合理？"],["陳部長駿季：我們農業部的立場，基本上是……"],["鍾委員佳濱：簡單來講，所有的限時優惠，時間內的越便宜啦！你超過時間來，越晚來越貴，大家才要參加嘛！對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以你們原來的設計就是前高後低，鼓勵農民趕快來參保，對不對？如果改成了前低後高，我就慢慢來啊！是不是這樣子？這樣你瞭解了沒有？"],["陳部長駿季：我瞭解。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以這次第十條的修改如果把這個邏輯破壞掉了，那就是亂修法啦！我們今天沒有逐條審查，今天是詢答而已，我希望農業部在我們實際修改的時候把這個精神說清楚，你前面訂75%，後面訂60%，就是希望前面5年比較優惠，農民趕快來參加，覆蓋率提高，保險才不會賠錢嘛！如果把後面的60%拿掉了，農民說前面75%，我就慢慢等啊！說不定改天會90%全部補助啊！會不會這樣？所以參與率低、保單範圍趕不上農民需求、申訴與協調機制不足以及理賠困難，這些都是目前推動農業保險所面臨的問題，是不是這樣？部長，我們要怎麼樣來推進納保作物的品項？有什麼方法？"],["陳部長駿季：我覺得第一個，我剛才也曾經說過，我希望農民對一個作物的保險是持續性的，他每年都能夠投保，而不是用投機的方式，看到風險高就投，風險低就不投，如果他持續性的投保，我們可以考慮他的保費打折，用這種方式來做一個優惠設計。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，你要想到促銷和行銷。"],["陳部長駿季：對，類似這樣。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你的保單要促銷和行銷，所以過去我從2018年到2024年，5年我問了5次，有三個重點，第一個，要有一個農業金融專屬爭議的協調機構，有沒有在研議了？"],["陳部長駿季：這個有，這個我們有在處理。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有啦？"],["陳部長駿季：有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：還有用科技定損的方式，建立遙測資料庫，完善災前災後的對比機制，你們有一個app嘛？"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在也在處理，我們現在也在做。"],["鍾委員佳濱：也在做嘛？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：還有一點，就是希望你們定期地對農民辦座談會，由農保諮詢委員會辦理定期座談、納入農民意見，有沒有在做？"],["陳部長駿季：有在做，但是我覺得密度還可以再提高。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好，本席把這三點提出來，包括今天說的品項還有修法，希望農業部繼續加油，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","現在請邱志偉委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":140,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-19,20-3","speakers":["謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","林德福","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴瑞隆","林岱樺","郭國文","陳亭妃","李坤城","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","陳超明","鍾佳濱","邱志偉","徐富癸","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","李彥秀","麥玉珍","黃珊珊","呂玉玲","林思銘","羅明才","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":63,"meetingDate":["2025-06-11"],"gazette_id":"1145901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟、財政兩委員會第3次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、本院委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「農業保險法第十條條文修正草案」案；二、本院委員邱\n若華等21人擬具「農業保險法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案；三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具\n「農業保險法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1145901_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}