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謝謝今天我們到場的有國家通訊傳播委員會的代理主委翁主委黃主任秘書歡迎人事行政總署的張專門委員跟賴專門委員熱情歡迎請坐"},{"start":2107.279,"end":2120.232,"text":"謝謝,跟各位黨團幹部特別報告一下,今天我們協商議題總共有六個案,其中通傳會的以及同意權,還有第四個調查委員會,我們六個案都在各位的手上,那麼"},{"start":2122.984,"end":2140.232,"text":"今天中午程序委員會已經列入本週五院會議程討論事項那這三案已經也都超過一個月的冷凍期等一下我們的協商是不是就依照協商通知單的六案順序來進行請問大家有沒有寶貴意見沒有好"},{"start":2142.079,"end":2152.181,"text":"沒有,那我們就第一案,通傳會組織法第十六條修正草案,有關施行日期的部分,現在請就各黨團幹部發表意見,請台灣民眾黨,請。通傳會的組織法在上個會期7月16號的時候,我們已經完成二讀跟三讀了。"},{"start":2164.008,"end":2182.705,"text":"那那個時候（在具體條文的修正上面（台灣民眾黨黨團的提案（其實是有壓實情日期啦那只不過說（最後台灣民眾黨黨團的提案（沒有獲得多數的支持那獲得多數支持的是中國國民黨黨團的提案"},{"start":2184.622,"end":2203.297,"text":"我相信那個時候在通過法律的時候應該大家的認知都是法律通過總統公佈就實行了沒想到說在第十六條的部分以前比較早期為了要因應整個通常會的組成有一些相關行政的配套作業"},{"start":2204.724,"end":2224.808,"text":"那所以早期十六條的規定（那所以早期十六條的規定（那所以早期十六條的規定（那所以早期十六條的規定（那所以早期十六條的規定（那所以早期十六條的規定（那所以早期十六條的規定（那所以早期十六條的規定（那所以早期十六條的規定（那所以早期十六條的規定（那所以早期十六條的規定（那所以早期十六條的規定（那所以早期十六條的規定（那所以早期十六條的規定（那所以早期十六條的規定（那所以早期十六條的規定（"},{"start":2232.611,"end":2255.026,"text":"就是要讓這個通傳會組織法的修正能夠去補足現在在施行的期間上面完全控制在行政院手中所產生的問題所以我們是提案希望在這一次二讀三讀了以後通傳會組織法就可以依法來生效"},{"start":2256.227,"end":2272.328,"text":"我們到院會處理的時候的修正動議不會讓它產生溯及的效力因為溯及到7月16號的話中間這個空檔可能會產生未來運作上面的一些爭議"},{"start":2273.59,"end":2290.021,"text":"那我們的修正還是會把它修正到我們禮拜五三度通過了以後公佈日再實行那基本上面的立法體力會比較像目前徐欣盈委員的21人提案"},{"start":2291.202,"end":2313.274,"text":"因為現在這個日期比較不好押,比較不好押的方式是說中央到時候什麼時候會公佈,處於一個不太確定的狀態。那在立法例上面看到時候秘書長還是議事處這邊的統人,看有沒有什麼具體的建議,以上。現在請民進黨團吳思堯,請柯建民總召請發言。"},{"start":2318.912,"end":2332.03,"text":"剛才黃總召也講得很清楚,那這禮拜五院會已經排上去,那當然我想這個院會會處理這個案子。這個案子處理完以後,當然剛才黃總講一個重點,"},{"start":2333.786,"end":2358.033,"text":"就是說總統所所公告公告後三天的生效那這個差不多十天內啦然後我不知道當然以總統公告後三天生效為基準點這樣就可以了所以到時候就是那那這樣的時候可能要再補提名嘛那後面到程序再來嘛好 柯建民總召好 謝謝接下來請國民黨團請發言那吳思瑤幹事長請準備"},{"start":2362.346,"end":2365.088,"text":"主席,我們在NCC的組織法事實上在上個會期就已經通過,那當時就是補正,這些委員他任期屆滿,事實上他就應該離職,可是"},{"start":2383.123,"end":2405.358,"text":"當時的條文是讓他任期還可以延到新任委員就職前一日所以在上個會期事上在我們的法令已經修正已經把它做一個調整可是非常遺憾的是我覺得行政院真的小動作太多對於立法院所通過的條文到現在沒有去把它"},{"start":2410.141,"end":2412.243,"text":"民進黨團提議（民進黨團提議（民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．"},{"start":2429.177,"end":2431.519,"text":"行政院也應該去尊重立法權在立法之後的行使這次這樣的小動作實際上是不必要變成立法院還要再做一個條文的修正去補正"},{"start":2446.832,"end":2450.636,"text":"提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議�"},{"start":2468.396,"end":2468.776,"text":"三、研商有關"},{"start":2483.729,"end":2486.372,"text":"謝謝吳斯堯首席副市長。接下來請吳斯堯幹事長發言,台灣民眾黨請準備。"},{"start":2498.428,"end":2525.216,"text":"謝謝院長。NCC組織法十六條（剛剛柯總召已經說明了（已經排入週五的院會（勢必院會會做處理。但是我們今天在做法案（處理前的最終協商（我想還是要回到法案舊條文論條文。我不樂見在野黨的委員（對於行政院以行政院的命令定之（來作為這個法的施行日期（來把它說是搞小動作。"},{"start":2525.976,"end":2526.377,"text":"二級機關的組織法（立法院黨團提議（"},{"start":2542.859,"end":2560.36,"text":"事實上組織法攸關的是該組織能不能夠健全的運作（所以立委在修訂的各個組織法之後（行政院相關的組織它勢必內部必須要依據修法去做很多的調動（"},{"start":2561.601,"end":2564.722,"text":"（共有十二個部、十一個委員會（含三個獨立機關（如果加上二級機關已降（"},{"start":2583.326,"end":2596.413,"text":"高達208個相關的組織（他的組織法都是施行日期（由行政院以命令定之。（所以我可以很簡要的來說明幾個（如果以獨立機關來講（"},{"start":2598.174,"end":2617.305,"text":"中選會組織法十三條（公平會組織法十六條（國家通訊傳播委員會組織法十六條（三個獨立機關的施行日期（都是由行政院以命令定之。（如果擴及其他的二級機關（不管是內政部組織法（外交部組織法（"},{"start":2618.506,"end":2638.08,"text":"國防部、財政部、法務部、經濟部、交通部、經管會、文化部、勞動部、樹發部、環境部、農業部等等,乃至於其他是委員會形式的組織法,都是由行政院以命令定職。原因就是我剛剛說的,"},{"start":2639.201,"end":2663.268,"text":"每一個組織法（立法院的修法、修正（會牽涉到該組織內部（不論是員額（不論是相關業務的條派（它都需要時間去因應（所以我想在這裡要導正一下（幾位在野委員的說法（這一次行政院對於NCC組織法的施行日期（由行政院以命令定居（這是長期以來（"},{"start":2665.229,"end":2693.181,"text":"國家法制的穩定性（安定性的必然運作（不是利用這一次的NCC（行政院搞小動作（是例外的作為（我想這個有必要在這裡（清楚的說明（所以依法、論法（民進黨團的立場（我們認為現在的條文（以行政院命令定之（來定施行日期（是合宜的（是穩定的（是永續的（也希望能夠讓在野委員能夠接納"},{"start":2699.381,"end":2719.05,"text":"因為今天主要是協商大家有沒有共識了不是針對上次NCC組織法的修正再重新論述一次所以有很多話本來其實就不用再講了那第二個部分所有的組織法為什麼一開始的時候施行日期要有行政願意明令定次"},{"start":2720.183,"end":2737.95,"text":"要牽涉到的組織的構成（它的編制（需要時間嗎（一開始的說組織法（立法會長成這樣（不是沒有原因的（但這一次NCC組織法的修正（有動到組織嗎（沒有（有動到原額嗎（沒有（有動到業務嗎（沒有（組織也沒有動（原額也沒有動（業務也沒有動（"},{"start":2746.812,"end":2772.991,"text":"怎麼還會有讓行政院來決定的理由那行政院來決定的理由他所執行的荒謬現狀就像現在這個樣子嘛讓一個根本已經不具備資格的人現在在違法代理NCC主委當然我說違法代理NCC主委這個詞可能執政黨他們不認同他們認為他是一個合法的代理主委那這個就牽涉到我剛剛所講的"},{"start":2774.38,"end":2799.171,"text":"每一個人在這件事情上面各個政黨在這個事情上面有各自的立場跟觀點但我們在7月16號二讀三讀NCC組織法的時候一個非常重要的目的就是要把萬年延任的條款給它可以廢止掉這最重要的目的那問題是現在的這個目的完全被空洞化了因為只要佐隆他一天不施行"},{"start":2802.149,"end":2828.244,"text":"這個萬年延任的條款就持續的存在所以才會產生今天這樣子的狀態其實這些話我必須要再強調一次我本來就不想講因為這裡是協商各黨有各黨的立場站在民進黨的立場可能7月16號的時候NCC組織法那條條文根本就不要修讓萬年延任的條款繼續存在他們的立場我也理解"},{"start":2829.264,"end":2832.251,"text":"但是我們不認同所以才會提案修法"},{"start":2833.343,"end":2858.071,"text":"我是希望在黨團協商的時候（大家把立場說一說（要不然又要坐時光機回去（從頭到尾再重新（白衛星的理由再講一次（這樣協商會變得（非常的冗長（大概我們希望（夏天所三讀修正通過的法律（能夠盡快生效（"},{"start":2860.532,"end":2881.79,"text":"然後讓整件事情可以再往下走因為其實我相信行政院也知道了這個法一生效他們現在所提名的NCC主委就不具備資格所以你勢必就是要重新的提名NCC主委的被提名的人到立法院來"},{"start":2883.168,"end":2907.897,"text":"那看你程序上面你要怎麼減變以解決問題的角度我覺得行政院應該有智慧自己去想一下但是兩條路嘛一條路是現在的被提名人審查以後不通過重新提名那另外一個你明明就知道你現在的被提名人不符合7月16號三讀通過的那個小級155件"},{"start":2910.083,"end":2933.581,"text":"那讓這個法生效通過以後（事實上對於行政院來講（其實有好處啊（讓他們可以加速做不辦提名（的動作（那立法院這邊及早的（來加以審議（其實你如果從這個角度來想的話（這是一個解決問題比較好的方式（以上。謝謝黃國昌總召的發言。國民黨團有沒有需要二輪發言?國民黨二輪。好,請柯建民總召,請。"},{"start":2942.235,"end":2967.696,"text":"我想有一些話重複的再講,包括記者會講過,今天也不應該再,也不需要再重複的講。那就是因為法就要修明,禮拜五就要處理法的穩定性,必須法的存在我們必須尊重。再去說誰,誰有什麼立場,都是,也不需要啦,我們今天就在這裡打出,好不好,又開始面對問題。"},{"start":2969.738,"end":2990.447,"text":"好謝謝那各位黨團幹部第十六條的內容大家沒有共識我們在這裡保留就送院會處理好不好那這裡面我有一個協商草稿我念一下請各位黨團幹部請聽一下兩個重點一十六條我們保留送院會處理這一二"},{"start":2991.786,"end":3019.591,"text":"本案院會進行處理之前（由各黨團推派一位（依台灣民眾黨（民主進步黨、國民黨團（順序輪流發言（每人發言為三分鐘（發言完畢之後（我們即依先後（進行各黨團版本的處理。好,請問各黨團幹部（對這樣子兩個協商結論（有沒有寶貴意見（如果沒有意見我們先把這個（好,謝謝那我先簽我們一個一個來,謝謝"},{"start":3027.825,"end":3049.724,"text":"請各黨邊簽字,謝謝。好,各位黨團該不該簽署的時候,我們現在來進行今天我們黨團協商第二案（研商有關考試院人事（各位列席的,謝謝你們,請,謝謝你們,好好好,謝謝。"},{"start":3055.117,"end":3074.834,"text":"（研商有關考試院人事同意權案（台灣民眾黨黨團、民進黨黨團提議（司法院人事同意權案（民進黨黨團提議（我們現在請提案的黨團（黃董昭,你先請發言,好嗎?"},{"start":3080.333,"end":3098.245,"text":"民進黨團請準備好謝謝喔那個其實剛剛那個民進黨柯總召所說的話其實我是百分之一百認同過去大家有不同的立場自己回去開記者會進行政治攻防就好了沒必要在黨團協商這邊長篇大論"},{"start":3100.646,"end":3116.193,"text":"考試院人事同意權我們展現了我們的善意我們提的案子從一開始在院會提案進入協商冷凍期交給台灣民眾黨黨團著急協商我們也著急協商了上個禮拜本來要處理"},{"start":3117.182,"end":3134.29,"text":"那院長調和鼎難說是讓院長再協商一次希望整件事情有一個比較完美的結果這件事情我們也都同意了那之前我們按照考試院人事同意權按照我們"},{"start":3135.35,"end":3155.233,"text":"立法院職權刑事法的通過因為新的規定有新的規定的時程那那個時程我們也去請教了我們秘書處相關的議事室同仁把那個時程給排出來了所以本來上個禮拜五我們所定的那個時程要處理的因為延宕了一個禮拜"},{"start":3156.5,"end":3179.726,"text":"要到這個禮拜我再處理,所以那個時程勢必要往後面再往後順眼。那如果說今天院長在協商的時候有具體的方案,要連司法院這副院長跟大法官都一併把它放在時程裡面來加以處理的話,只要在時程上面的安排,各個黨團的時間,"},{"start":3181.607,"end":3210.341,"text":"大家都可以配合的話我們並沒有什麼特別的意見那總而言之就是這一些人事同意權或許現在就趕快積極的來加以進行比較符合我們國家制度運作的需要也符合社會上面的期待但我只有一個小小的問題就是說我們今天在處理的其實只有司法院跟考試院"},{"start":3211.562,"end":3226.564,"text":"那有一件事情是NCC的委員NCC委員的提名他人事同意權的行使應該是在交通委員會嘛那問題是交通委員會那到底是誰要負責排案呢?"},{"start":3228.078,"end":3247.558,"text":"還是大家都不排就一直這樣子下去這個事情當然啦齁因為這個是院會的協商大概基本上處理院會的事務那只不過說社會上面大家也很關心NCC人事同意權審查的問題那如果說現在"},{"start":3249.66,"end":3272.523,"text":"我們在上個會期的時候花了相當久的時間利用院會的總諮詢去確認卓榮泰院長的爭議因為在野黨當初的善意本來是問卓院長說之前陳建仁內閣所提的他要不要思考他要不要重提他經過一段時間的考慮他願意幫這四個人背書"},{"start":3273.686,"end":3298.355,"text":"那到現在為止我們的交通委員會從來沒有排審過一次那這個事情是不是今天如果三大人士同意權案社會上面都有期待要處理的話今天要不要順便就一起把它討論把它討論一下謝謝台灣民眾黨團的黃祖昭的說明接下來民主進步黨請說明國民黨請準備"},{"start":3301.226,"end":3321.365,"text":"因為我們今天大家來這個地方是要行使立法委員在憲法上的職權,這個事關重大,而且也不可迴避。那過去的種種讓它過去了,我們今天全部來面對。那大家就是照,應該是照立法官實現以後,"},{"start":3322.779,"end":3349.696,"text":"那所謂同意權行使的內容以及精神,然後還有時間的限制等等來處理。這是第一點,我要談的就是這個。當然我們也期待,因為這個會議最多能夠還有總預算,還有國運事業預算,還有追加預算。所以因為時間是相當緊,而且相當寶貴。另外我想大家也有各種重要法案要通過。"},{"start":3350.856,"end":3365.731,"text":"所以我們必須很有效率、很坦誠的來面對這些問題。那我的看法就是說,有關於考試院同意權和司法院同意權試賞,我們有離一個表,但是我是覺得應該"},{"start":3368.021,"end":3392.274,"text":"作為台灣民眾黨,那邊有一個說明,我們再來對。沒有關係,我們再來對。那我講原則性問題就好了,可以同時並行都沒有問題。那另外有剛才黃國昌委員講到一個重點,也是沒有錯啦。那原則性同意權行使的時候,當行政院在提名進來的時候,"},{"start":3393.82,"end":3422.736,"text":"那總不能丟著不審嘛,那也會煩惱這個問題。只要進來的時候,民主召委,不管是國民黨或是民進黨,我們大家也共同看完承諾。就是到那一桌的時候可以審的時候,就排。反正這個同意行使就是面對嘛。誰可以過、可以不可以過,那當然就尊重。尊重大家的表意嘛。"},{"start":3423.636,"end":3451.707,"text":"所以我講的是嚴準問題而已。是不是待會請周恩來民主黨,你在司法委員會的會長說,你出一個你的可能的弱點和時針表,那就拿出來大家參考。那我們有什麼問題我們再次來討論。就是我的意思是說,有效率面對趕快來處理,可能是過不過,當然大家去面對好不好。"},{"start":3452.915,"end":3452.935,"text":"韓院長"},{"start":3470.6,"end":3495.467,"text":"剛剛我想不管是針對民進黨所提出的司法院大法官人選的這個同意權審查案或是民眾黨所提出的考試院這個相關的總統提名的人選的這個審查案國民黨在八月下旬就準備好對考試院"},{"start":3498.808,"end":3523.774,"text":"總統所提名人選,如果送到立法院來的時候,如果院內有召集開會的話,我們會信任同意來進行考試院的提名人的審查及同意權投票。對於司法院的部分,總統在最近的一個多月才提出來,"},{"start":3525.667,"end":3553.529,"text":"我們也很樂意來進行相關的這些審查。國民黨從8月就stand by到現在,我們很願意對於所有的這些國家重要的這些名氣的總統提名的這些人事的提名,能夠衝到立法院來審查,國民黨全力的來配合。但是我要特別提醒一個事情,"},{"start":3555.092,"end":3573.26,"text":"過去,畢竟這是國家非常重要的,不管是考試院也好,司法院的大法官也好。過去在2000年到2008年的時候,陳水扁前總統在執政的時期,"},{"start":3574.605,"end":3600.981,"text":"對於所有不管是考試院（司法院大法官亦或是這個監察院（監察委員的提名（都會有跟在野黨有來協商（大家一起共同推薦（適當的人選（把國家的一時的這些（這些英才（能夠集思廣益（大家一起提出來（"},{"start":3602.635,"end":3624.331,"text":"當然由總統跟他所提名的這些所謂審議的委員會去做一個最後提名的決議。我想這個起碼這個流程要走。那我們並沒有看到這一次有相關的對在野黨的一些徵詢。我要特別強調"},{"start":3627.083,"end":3648.821,"text":"國家的人才、國家的名氣是為全國人民來服務、來做事情（並不是為哪一個政黨來做事情（它的面應該是廣開各路的善聽（能夠集合所有大眾、朝野的各種意見（把最好的人才推薦給總統（"},{"start":3650.771,"end":3651.192,"text":"一或是馬前總統（"},{"start":3678.229,"end":3696.167,"text":"提名的這些大法官（或是司法院的正副院長（最基本都有拜會一下在野黨（這是行之多年（當然我不願意猜測說是要故意矮化立法院（還是矮化這些在野黨（"},{"start":3697.964,"end":3721.604,"text":"但是這是一個台灣這個國家社會裡面一個最基本的一個尊重畢竟各個政黨加起來是百分之百的民意我覺得這個本席覺得這個最基本的一個尊重都沒有當然已經提名進來了現在立法院要進行審查"},{"start":3723.717,"end":3728.493,"text":"本席跟國民黨的立場是一致,我們共同都是說,現在已經提名來了,"},{"start":3729.788,"end":3755.803,"text":"而且民進黨科總召已經提出今天草野協商希望盡快來審查來行使同意權本席也請表同意我們也是表示尊重好不好那待會科總召要求的部分我們也會簽字對於考試院跟這個司法院的部分今天在草野協商已經白紙黑字有列出這個議程我們請表同意好不好謝謝"},{"start":3757.047,"end":3778.526,"text":"謝謝福昆市長。接下來請柯建民總統請二人發言。剛才針對副總統所談的話,就是說有關於同意權行使總統是總統之前總統提名的。他說過去陳前總統以及蔡英文總統有來跟立法院協商沒有這回事。這是總統之前。"},{"start":3781.653,"end":3808.851,"text":"馬英九總統的時候所提名（也沒有來協商。這同意權行使要尊重總統之前即便我們是執政黨同黨的是不是要問總統怎麼提名我們有無權干涉尊重也不會說我們去參與等等所以這一點請副總召要清楚並沒有所謂提名要協商的"},{"start":3809.771,"end":3838.397,"text":"過去馬總統有跟我們宣揚,我們都沒有。這是一個非常嚴肅的,請總統請的之前,在這裡我要補述一下。當然,拜會是所必然的。我們今天任人以後,都陸續來拜會。這是過去常委有管理。一直沒有來拜會,當然是說風險形勢,還不知道何時形勢。另外,過去上個會期,大家對於"},{"start":3839.477,"end":3839.657,"text":"我特別強調"},{"start":3865.038,"end":3881.925,"text":"科總召在立法院已經是活化石活字典,我們都很尊重。科總召,人工都好得好。我們希望朝野和諧,你起碼要經過集思廣益,爭一群。"},{"start":3888.53,"end":3911.215,"text":"本席剛剛講的並不是說總統提名前一定要跟在野黨來協商我從頭到尾沒有講協商嘛 對不對這個東西主要的意思就是徵詢大家嘛能夠集思廣益嘛為國家舉財嘛這是朝野和諧的一個基本邏輯嘛一個基本尊重嘛當然各種要很強力表達這是總統職權我們也沒有說總統不能這樣做"},{"start":3919.469,"end":3943.12,"text":"但是一個基本邏輯（我想柯總統在立法院30多年（朝野本來就要和諧（很多事情的進行就比較順利（當然你可以一直強調（這總統職權可以全國獨斷（我們也尊重（所以我們剛剛也講（尊重（那既然已經（民進黨今天提出（正式提出要求來排成（"},{"start":3945.386,"end":3973.111,"text":"說實在本席對這些日期阿﹖我不會去很要求說阿你一定要哪一天哪一天哪一天我沒有這樣要求就配合這已經很極度尊重了嘛但是我要特別強調我要特別強調大家凡事多商量總是好事嘛對不對對不對柯總召阿給參眾一碗有好沒壞啦"},{"start":3975.475,"end":3982.841,"text":"因為二人發言完,我們台灣民眾黨講完,您先講好不好,您稍等一下。那個台灣民眾黨需要,請問一下二人發言。台灣民眾黨需要二人發言。沒有,因為齁,剛剛我聽那個副國務卿總召講,好像有個時辰。"},{"start":4004.226,"end":4019.691,"text":"因為剛副總召說那個時程他都同意我聽了嚇一跳因為我剛沒有看到那個時程所以我先跟院長說明一下我們正在研究他們所草擬的那個時程"},{"start":4023.1,"end":4033.294,"text":"有關時間的部分很清楚,大家看一看,可以調整,都是照正常程序排下去,因為我們來講一點,但時間不多了。"},{"start":4034.113,"end":4053.379,"text":"至於副總召、副總召案所所任的在黨協商,尊重一下。我要提一個,可能你都忘記了,你聽我講,總統在提名不管任何提名的時候,包括大官、包括考試委員等總統之間,他一定有審見小組。那審見小組有發函給各政黨推薦。"},{"start":4057.972,"end":4071.836,"text":"在這個過程大家不要忘記,都有發行給各政黨推薦（然後神仙小屋在審判以後再送進來（所以這個是一個國家行為（總統會尊重各黨的尊重（並沒有所謂協商（連我們都無有虧事打聽（徹底尊重總統"},{"start":4080.316,"end":4096.086,"text":"好,現在謝謝柯總召發言,那我們請議事處高處長宣讀一下我們整個人事同意權,我們預估的時程,這個非常重要。請大家先聽一下,沒關係,我們等一下書面資料會給大家。我們先就考試院的時程。"},{"start":4106.119,"end":4130.218,"text":"一分鐘,我們先把考試院的行動...這個抱歉我在這裡再表達一下因為國民黨團的這些工作同仁非常的認真所以本席有看到時程表我不是不知道時程表的情況之下同意那因為我們黨團已經先跟這個院方"},{"start":4130.979,"end":4153.996,"text":"立法院、院方已經有先要的時針表（所以本席看了一下（即便這個時針表要跟動我們都尊重（好不好（就實施我們的職權好了,謝謝副總長好,謝謝來,請大家看一下考試院的（我們預估的時針表（司法院等一下再發給大家（請我們高處長請宣讀給大家聽一下我們也有提議一張時針表大家看一下應該是可以對得起來的好不好"},{"start":4160.302,"end":4175.596,"text":"跟各位黨編報告一下因為我們的那個同意權行使的相關規範經過大法官這個憲法法庭第九號判決之後大部分都是合憲但是它跟過去同意權行使有幾個比較大的不同點"},{"start":4176.457,"end":4201.351,"text":"就是說將來同意權行使的時候（不管是依照憲法所提名的這一些憲政機關的被提名人（或者是依照法律由行政院提起的這些獨立機關的被提名人（這個呢在進行審查的時候呢都有一些時間上的限制那好比說這個自交付審查一定要超過一個月不能少於一個月那另外公聽會是一定要開"},{"start":4202.392,"end":4204.615,"text":"提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．"},{"start":4218.095,"end":4246.32,"text":"那分開審查之後進入到院會去進行投票表決的話是一定要記名,記名投票表決那這個就是一些比較大的方面所以因此我們在設計時程的部分呢那方才那個針對這個考試委員的部分呢我們星期五民眾黨的提案已經超過一個月的冷凍期已經列到星期五的討論事項了那我們今天是協商考委的部分跟大法官的部分那等一下我有發一個時程是"},{"start":4247.44,"end":4260.588,"text":"考試委員的時程部分是根據民眾黨所提的這些結構的內容那民進黨剛剛有提一個有關於時程的部分我們也可以印一下給大家參考先看一下之後我們看大家意見怎麼樣再來處理我們要發下去"},{"start":4269.833,"end":4296.26,"text":"那我跟大家說明一下最主要是我們將來在進行審查的時候呢原則上是應開公聽會所以我們會排一個星期一來開公聽會那至於審查會的部分如果比方說像這個通傳會的委員因為他現在是交通委員會主審那將來還會有一個公平會的委員送來了那是經濟委員會主審那這些都是委員會的召委"},{"start":4297.02,"end":4312.786,"text":"他們兩個召委彼此之間根據他輪值召委的權他去參考這個職權新司法的法條應開公聽會應開審查會然後時間要注意但是我們今天處理的是屬於憲法的部分我們院會要注意的"},{"start":4313.586,"end":4338.114,"text":"我們等一下是先處理考委的部分（如果有協商共識（我們就先簽（接下來繼續處理大法官（因為院會的時間（就如同剛剛柯總講（時間是有限的（我們當然是一個審查案（它要經過一個禮拜以上的時間（我們要逐案去排（這中間還要穿插一些預算案（所以我會建議說（我們是一天公聽會（然後三天審查會（然後其中（"},{"start":4339.272,"end":4363.398,"text":"超過十天之後,我們要進行院會的競名表決。（我們有一個時程表給大家（另外民進黨的資料,我們現在也發給大家（大家先看一下（我們等一下再來看共識如何（麻煩各黨黨幹部稍微看一下（包括剛才遞出來的民進黨的時間（的一個時間表（也請大家一併參考一下（稍等一下我們開始進行討論"},{"start":4564.305,"end":4565.191,"text":"我們休息十分鐘。"},{"start":4672.639,"end":4698.509,"text":"好 再一次感謝各位黨團幹部請坐我們剛剛討論了一下我們整個議程時程表接下來我們請柯建民總召請發言傅坤祺總召請準備請大家坐坐好不好那個麻煩一下各位請就座請就座 我們會議現在開始謝謝大家院長"},{"start":4699.827,"end":4728.138,"text":"各位委員同仁,民主金融黨所提的這個時程表和民主事務處所提的時程表其實持平而論差一點在什麼地方所以我們全部是用宴會的時間因為我們知道現在審查中央政府總預算的時候,很多要用來審議算所以全部是用五二五二但是大家可以看得出來,節目這樣排的時候,只有總預權行使還是同一天"},{"start":4729.711,"end":4744.806,"text":"紅衛天行財總,12月13號紅衛天只是我們全部用宴會不用委員會我比較傾向就是說是大家全部用宴會時間可以參與全院委員會嘛這樣才會占用審議團時間結果都是一樣這是第一點第二點就是說當然有很多細節必須談"},{"start":4751.993,"end":4779.734,"text":"有關於這個從各黨要同意權行使的時候要出一些考題。請問的題目。這當然院會交下來。那院會交下來的時候是用什麼比例交下來?是用正常比例?一個人正常比例交下來?這個是我們現在要確定的。我這個話無由纏身。這點要很清楚就是說"},{"start":4781.277,"end":4797.428,"text":"當然因為交下來,一定會異議政黨嘛。用比喻來交下來。那問的都是通案性問題。至於個別委員的問題,就在審查會去問。這樣才是可能能夠從一點行使,能夠順暢。至於什麼時候要提這個,提提問。"},{"start":4804.076,"end":4829.025,"text":"那請...我認為就是說...我們...司法開始齁我明天又開始,三天內就提到...司法就提出來,然後就可以交下來嘛因為那個都有時間,要給他們回答都有時間所以我們算一下就是說,如何用最...最精準、最確實的方式來處理這是我們的看法至於..."},{"start":4830.804,"end":4856.981,"text":"現在排出來就是說,院長是二二一嘛,一個人三十分鐘委員是一一一,一個人十分鐘這邊我們比較二十分鐘,這邊當然是可以談,我們都還好那就是院長和委員不一樣嘛以上就是我們對於這次重新行使一個基本性的看法請各位濃濃指教好,謝謝柯建民總召接下來請副會長總召發言,台灣民眾黨團黃總召請準備"},{"start":4862.601,"end":4878.117,"text":"現在大概我們審查考試院或者司法院的提名人選我要謝謝我們立法院院方有提供一個時程表那現在民進黨也有提供一個時程表"},{"start":4879.538,"end":4899.812,"text":"基本上我們每個禮拜一、三、四的委員會我們還是例行委員會中心主義尤其現在在審查總預算可能大家投入總預算的審查的時間可能會稍微多一點固然全院聯席會在審查這個考"},{"start":4900.552,"end":4928.818,"text":"考試院或者司法院人選的時候（委員會一樣可以開會（但是我們還是希望說（這個時間盡可能還是把它抽開來（就是由（院會的事情（因為我們現在實際上（院會多辦一些報告事項討論的事情（現在近乎現在要二三讀的（這個二三讀的法案也好（那總預算二三讀現在幾乎是不可能的事情（所以現在（這個目前（"},{"start":4929.978,"end":4955.585,"text":"大概到十二月的中下旬都還是二五的院會還可以做更多的利用跟討論那本席在這裡要特別強調我把我們把下一個中央下一個提案是113年度中央政府預算追加預算相關事宜"},{"start":4957.308,"end":4983.362,"text":"這個部分因為也牽扯到我們如果要行政總統臺院長來做專案報告的時候也會影響到我們院會的時間可能也會影響到一天嘛起碼一天嘛所以我提醒一下議事處這個我們整體就是今天"},{"start":4985.621,"end":5007.049,"text":"這個期程我們授權立法院議事處來排就好因為我們後面還有一些提案要來討論後面還有一些議案要來討論所以我們現在我們先同意怎麼做就好了但時間不要定不要定死了以後當然沒有辦法移就授權議事處來處理但本期要提醒一下這個"},{"start":5012.301,"end":5037.494,"text":"司法院的院長跟副院長的被提名人我們是用一天的院會來審查但是大法官的提名人有五位用一天來審查時間是不是太過急迫因為有五位被提名人是不是用兩天會更適當一點那另外這個各黨團推敗質詢的委員"},{"start":5040.612,"end":5056.937,"text":"二二一本身覺得實在太少了,時間太少了。你說二二一,二二一真的我們可以啊,時間可以盡量多善用一點,時間是不是能夠盡量放寬一點。"},{"start":5061.357,"end":5066.782,"text":"三三一的話會更適當一點。"},{"start":5073.546,"end":5096.263,"text":"謝謝副總召至於時間上的話是看是20分鐘還是什麼時間副總召的發言重點是剛剛前半段是跟柯總召完全一樣的好不好就用2、5的院會我想這一點是應該沒有問題那另外就是說五個大法官的時間分配以及發言這個詢問時間大概是有一點差異那我們接下來請黃國昌總召請發言吳思堯幹長請準備"},{"start":5100.334,"end":5115.403,"text":"基本上剛剛傅昆吉總召所提的建議我們都同意就往傅昆吉總召提的那個方向來規劃我們基本上都同意我只有一件事情要提醒就是說"},{"start":5116.994,"end":5134.52,"text":"我們上次修正通過《立法院諮詢刑事法》被提名的有數人的時候說明跟答詢要分別為之那因此在排時間的時候可能現在的這個表看起來還有一點rough就是說"},{"start":5136.465,"end":5152.776,"text":"那個人因為要一個一個進行以前好像是大鍋草全部都找來嘛那你現在要一個一個進行表示慎重的話每一個人他說明幾分鐘各個黨團有多少個代表每一個黨團的代表"},{"start":5156.618,"end":5176.024,"text":"可以問幾分鐘。我只建議,可能把時間再寫得細一點。比如說,我先隨便提一個。比如說,邱文燕,這個是考試院的。或何賴傑,這個是司法院的。"},{"start":5176.877,"end":5187.657,"text":"就這一個人,我們的表定的時間,譬如是抓多久?抓一小時嗎?他說十分鐘,只剩下五十分鐘。五十分鐘,三個黨團,各幾個人的時間怎麼分配?"},{"start":5190.509,"end":5210.014,"text":"因為你現在我看到的是說一天要排這麼多人每一個人的順序跟時間可能再抓得更細一點大家心裡面大概時間上會比較有底那至於說各個黨團"},{"start":5211.516,"end":5213.817,"text":"台灣民眾黨團提議（台灣民眾黨團提議（台灣民眾黨團提議（台灣民眾黨團提議（"},{"start":5238.655,"end":5253.449,"text":"現在是抓20,那夠了啦,夠了,可以,可以,可以,可以,好,好,好,然後看,就是說這個時程排得比較細緻的話,就是大家時間會抓得比較準。"},{"start":5254.278,"end":5271.852,"text":"那第二個,到底要用院會還是要用委員會的時間,或有許大家可以再即時廣義一下。就院會,我們有沒有那麼多院會的時間,因為他這個在本質上算是全院委員會嘛。全院委員會在開會的時候,並沒有限制一定要禮拜二或禮拜五嘛。"},{"start":5272.612,"end":5293.344,"text":"那,現實上,我們以現實的角度上面來講,在進行人事同意權詢答的時候,通常啦,也就只有上去問的,問問題的那個委員,人會在啦。其他的委員,大概都是透過隨選視訊,或者是院裡面的電視,在關心整個詢答。"},{"start":5294.665,"end":5312.996,"text":"的狀態所以到底要是二五還是在委員會的時間因為本質上他是個全院委員會沒有一定要在二五那看實際上面院會的時間夠用還是不夠用這個我覺得可以信任院長跟秘書長的智慧看怎麼樣來調配以上"},{"start":5316.256,"end":5335.218,"text":"謝謝黃國昌總召的發言。大致上來講,國民黨跟民進黨團他們的講法都是二跟五為主。我們私聊討論大概沒有什麼太大問題。我們原則上是二跟五的約會,特別跟黃國昌總召報告一下。至於發言的時間,剛剛柯總召、副總召也講大概以二十分鐘。"},{"start":5336.175,"end":5358.529,"text":"那副總召講的是說二、二、一稍微少了一點（那能不能三、三、一（那如果大家同意（我們就三、三、一（發言時間二十分鐘（大致上我先這樣跟大家講（我們就往這個方向好不好（啊請勿適用（好,謝謝院長的才事（民進黨團確實在這個（行使人事同意權的啟程（跟國民黨團的意見一致（我們希望保留委員會的時間（趕快來審預算（所以用二、五的時間來定的話（"},{"start":5363.252,"end":5385.174,"text":"大家也可以參照我們剛剛有列了一個視你的期程（真的跟我們秘書處的時間是一樣的（最終同意權投票都是12月13號（這是考試院的部分那第二件事情也回答剛剛副總召（謝謝副總召有提示到（如果說二、五拿來排考試院的時間的話呢（那台電追加減預算落在哪一天（"},{"start":5386.215,"end":5404.197,"text":"那民進黨團這邊是也算過時間（如果大家同意（台電的追加檢的這個質詢、備詢（其實是11月19、下週二（是可以進行的（雖然今天程序委員會已經排了五二一次會的議程（但是這個可以透過朝野協商（"},{"start":5404.997,"end":5431.477,"text":"因為這週的禮拜五的這些程序委員會牌的案子大概禮拜五都可以處理所以禮拜二其實是空出來的所以11月19號禮拜二就來進行台電追加減預算的尋答報告其實這樣就OK然後也不會影響到剛剛副總召所跟民進黨團看法一致考試院的行使期程這是第一件事情第二件事情有關於司法院的大法官的人事同意權呢"},{"start":5432.398,"end":5459.328,"text":"那大家也可以參照民進黨團所列的這個也都是用院會的時間那剛剛傅坤祺總召還是黃國昌總召不好意思我漏就是我不確定是哪一位有提到說大法官有五位被提名人扣除院長副院長可能用一天的時間在詢答會比較少一點審查會少一點那民進黨的這個表格其實我們也預留了12月10號禮拜二以及12月17號"},{"start":5461.757,"end":5489.651,"text":"兩天都可以來作為大法官被提名人的時程這樣就完全兜起來了所以來做這個補充說明那還有一件事情要至於剛剛講的這個人數二二一、三三一二十分鐘、三十分鐘大家一起來決定這個那另外一件事情還是要請示一下這個院長要一起做處理剛剛柯總召有提每一個黨團是不是共同會聚一個時間比如說今天協商結論出來禮拜五之前"},{"start":5490.492,"end":5506.251,"text":"各黨團要提發問給考試院（或者是大法官的題目（各黨講好（共同可以問幾題（然後一起趕快把握時間（讓這些被提名人可以準備（所以這一點也請求院長要做採釋（謝謝"},{"start":5508.674,"end":5531.689,"text":"我們再請高處長再補充說明一下黃國昌你稍待一下我們先把這個說明一下那個針對同意權的行使方才院長有重整了大家的看法原則上就是我們會利用院會日來進行這個同意權的時程不過這邊要跟各位黨員報告一下因為我們院會事實上在禮拜五我們都要處理報告事項"},{"start":5532.549,"end":5561.563,"text":"那如果說我們現在就把所有的院會都停開院會改開全院委員會的話事實上報告事項會沒辦法處理那我會這樣建議對我會這樣建議就是說五二一次院會對不對那是不是等一下留個二十分鐘我們來弄一下我們的草稿就是說星期五的半天我們原則上院會還是會去處理所謂的報告事項那星期五的下半天跟星期二我們就來開這個同意權的這些相關的東西我們先列個表出來"},{"start":5564.245,"end":5576.62,"text":"這個流星期五還有一些好處就是說我們現在還有附屬單位預算可能要協調然後委員會利用134再弄總預算將來弄完民進黨事實上有可能會遇到院會日了那我們現在就是原則上把"},{"start":5577.441,"end":5600.651,"text":"考委的同意權利用五二（然後大法官也利用五二（那剛剛有講三三一、二十分鐘（我們來設計一下那個規定（那二十分鐘之後（我們再把那個有關於考委的部分（大法官的部分（的洗腔結論的草稿給大家看（那至於追加預算的部分（就是可能看大家溝通怎麼樣（我再塞到裡面去（"},{"start":5602.406,"end":5604.206,"text":"我只想確認一下就是院會的時間二、五"},{"start":5632.452,"end":5654.602,"text":"每一次院會禮拜五到的時候,討論事項可不可以處理?不是喔,我講討論事項能不能處理指的是說,如果有一個法案,過了協商冷凍期,我要把它排上院會,不會因為那天有排人事同意權就卡住嗎?"},{"start":5657.885,"end":5669.21,"text":"這個就是我剛剛提這個問題最主要的理由就是說你把二五的時間全部都卡住了以後那法案是不是都不能處理了"},{"start":5670.219,"end":5693.416,"text":"就是那個總召所講的沒有錯如果說大家有共識決定要把院會日停開去處理全院委員會審查的事情嘛那所以你院會停開如果說每個禮拜五早上是不停開那不停開的話照原定一程就處理報告事項但是你的討論事項跟處理的時間就變得很有限了因為通常到了12點下午2點半就改開了這個理解齁如果規則是這樣子的話"},{"start":5695.077,"end":5722.876,"text":"我們對於所有都把他放在二五這件事情台灣民眾黨黨團沒有辦法同意沒有辦法同意沒有辦法同意的理由我說明一下是說具體全院委員會在審查的時候被提名的人他要上來回答問題嘛那事實上各個黨團派上去詢問問題的委員他的順序早就出來了"},{"start":5724.537,"end":5737.576,"text":"會很類似啦我們在院會裡面進行總諮詢那樣子的一個時程表所以對於各個委員會的運作事實上干擾是低的比如說輪到我上去問問20分鐘那我就上去問20分鐘嘛"},{"start":5740.78,"end":5760.59,"text":"除了二十分鐘以外,其他的時間我還是可以去委員會履行我的職責。但是你如果把二五的時間卡這麼多,全部都在處理這個,讓法案完全沒有辦法處理。對於這樣子的處理方式,我們是有所保留的。"},{"start":5764.723,"end":5765.343,"text":"你認為不要五二是嗎?"},{"start":5773.832,"end":5773.992,"text":"主席"},{"start":5804.312,"end":5804.973,"text":"韓國瑜、韓國瑜、韓國瑜、韓國瑜、韓國瑜"},{"start":5824.605,"end":5838.634,"text":"這一個是不是用五二?司法院的部分是不是用全院委員會再來處理?是不是用這樣折衷會比較好一點?因為那時候有法案的嘛。就是說考試院這部分都是用院會來處理。"},{"start":5840.835,"end":5854.582,"text":"司法院的部分因為委員會在審查總預算也差不多了所以司法院這部分可以用全面委員會來處理這樣的話你就不會影響到黃委員所注意的可能這個法案因為目前的法案進來不多"},{"start":5855.562,"end":5870.501,"text":"所以這個用院會來處理這個考試院的。我跟我們高雄市長講,是不是可以啊,把它拆啊,連司法院都是在院會,這樣的話可能就不會有黃委員所考量的問題,因為現在還要追加預算還要加進來院會吧。"},{"start":5871.903,"end":5892.744,"text":"那個牧師長既然是都是前院委員會就沒有所謂那個是院會這個是前院委員會而且這個結束以後因為現在這個結束以後我們可以排一天來處理法案因為法案事實上也不多了那這個結束13號以後我們可以馬上排嘛有一天來處理就好了"},{"start":5894.821,"end":5902.349,"text":"因為時間到也不多了啊。加開院會一天就好了啊。這個首位一下子可以定位,定位就是委員會。他就說我們再專門找一天加開院會來專門審理法的案。"},{"start":5909.136,"end":5924.123,"text":"三號以後可以 這是另外一個條文 那個影響度不大嘛 我想不管怎麼樣我們這邊需要15分鐘左右 我們來您另一個行政協調一下 你們正好私底下來協調一下 另外我突然想到一些事 先把草稿擬出來之後大家再來討論"},{"start":5925.496,"end":5952.33,"text":"各黨團幹部特別拜託一件事情,就是說所有的院會、全院委員會等等,請拜託大家黨團幹部推派一些委員在現場,不要讓現場都沒有委員,這一點要拜託大家,因為上一次我指向王振旭,我要特別去拜託王振旭委員你千萬不能走,我們審查法律案一個委員都不在,所以各黨團幹部這一點請大家一定要,對,你們一定要派委員,不然這個畫面出去,"},{"start":5952.95,"end":5955.438,"text":"很難交代拜託大家好吧謝謝突然想到這個"},{"start":7399.606,"end":7407.951,"text":"謝謝各位黨團幹部,大家請坐。剛才現在發到各位手上是我們育寧的協商結論。時間,113年11月12日,在"},{"start":7412.897,"end":7419.06,"text":"那我們協商的主題（台灣民眾黨黨團針對總統知情本院新式考試院第十四屆院長（副院長及考試委員被提名人同意權案提出審查時程（是否有當請公決案"},{"start":7439.949,"end":7456.709,"text":"我們這是協商主題。協商的結論。一、11月22日星期五下午改開全院委員會。舉行考試院人事同意權案公聽會。由各黨團推薦學者專家,代表七位參加。一、政黨比例,由國民黨黨團推薦三位。"},{"start":7459.272,"end":7469.131,"text":"民進黨黨團推薦三位（台灣民眾黨黨團推派一人（各黨團審查小組委員一、一以上數比例推派委員組成。"},{"start":7471.181,"end":7492.042,"text":"名單請於11月15日星期五中午12點前送議事處彙整。（預時視同放棄。（協商結論二11月26日星期二29日星期五下午12月3日星期二6日星期五下午改開全院委員會並合併為一次會11月26日"},{"start":7496.246,"end":7525.256,"text":"星期二上午審查考試院院長被提名人（下午審查考試院副院長被提名人（10月29日星期五下午（12月3日星期二、6日星期五下午（審查考試委員被提名人（每位被提名人（各由七位委員進行詢答（由國民黨團推派三位（民進黨黨團推派三位（台灣民眾黨黨團推派一位（代表進行。"},{"start":7526.431,"end":7546.321,"text":"名單請於11月25日星期一中午12點前受議事處會診,遇時視同放棄,尋答順序依例授權議事處辦理。審查完畢後,於12月17日星期二,院會上午行使同意權案,記名投票表決。"},{"start":7548.464,"end":7571.142,"text":"御尼協商結論三、上開行使同意權案投票時（考試院長、副院長及七位考試委員被提名人（並為一張同意票。（四、有關行使考試院院長、副院長及七位考試委員（被提名人同意權案相關事務及時程祥如賦表。（"},{"start":7571.963,"end":7579.383,"text":"五、各黨團如有關考試院院長、副院長及考試委員被提名人之書面問題（"},{"start":7581.452,"end":7607.183,"text":"請於11月15日星期五中午12點前送至議事處會診。11月15日星期五中午12點前送至議事處會診。並由本院含送提名機關轉至被提名人一例後續審查之進行。請問各黨團幹部對我們院本部所運營的這個協商結論的草案有任何寶貴意見?"},{"start":7608.84,"end":7611.161,"text":"請問有沒有就是說大家的題目數還是題目的一致性的部分來做一下討論,沒關係我們可以討論。"},{"start":7637.182,"end":7640.687,"text":"沒關係我們詢問,來請總長等一下那請翻臉10月15號大家要把題目送到總統府吧要問個問題吧"},{"start":7650.134,"end":7675.048,"text":"那是提幾個題目,當然政黨大小有限制嘛。然後呢,我剛才講過就是說,這個題的就是一個整個同意權行使的共同性問題。至於個別委員要問的就是到個別委員去執行的時候,所以我們只剩下一個題目,就是說各黨要提幾個題。"},{"start":7676.289,"end":7684.801,"text":"提幾幾?當然現在要談好,只剩下這個問題而已嘛。就是各黨團以限制或建議。是不是331還怎麼樣嘛?提題目數啦。"},{"start":7692.713,"end":7709.54,"text":"謝謝柯總召。國民黨團有沒有寶貴意見請插眼。因為這是法條明定的,就是說有關於會診的部分只有限於各黨團。那這邊的話是未參加黨團。那這一屆大家都參加黨團了啊。所以不會有。沒有。沒有個人的啊。"},{"start":7711.755,"end":7713.738,"text":"國民黨團王宏威首席副書長請發言"},{"start":7725.128,"end":7725.588,"text":"《立法院之權行使法》"},{"start":7743.598,"end":7743.718,"text":"三、研商"},{"start":7771.254,"end":7797.26,"text":"那接下來請台灣民眾黨團有沒有寶貴意見請表達這個條文一開始的時候即使是憲法法庭做了暫時處分也沒有凍結法律公告生效沒有凍結最後大法官也沒有對這個條文特別在說什麼到目前為止台灣民眾黨黨團"},{"start":7798.786,"end":7820.772,"text":"我們針對問卷的事情所做已經發出去的問卷我們早就發出去了完全是按照立法院職權的形式法在做的那當然被提名的人他們回答不回答反正也沒有法律效果嘛今天我們即使在這邊做了任何決議打開天窗說亮話"},{"start":7821.977,"end":7842.049,"text":"那些被提名的人不回答,不回答立法院能怎麼樣,也不能怎麼樣嘛。就會最後,你在投票的時候,每一個立法委員心裡有一把尺嘛。我問你的問題,你不願意回答,那當然會成為立法委員,最後要不要投同意票,還是不同意票。"},{"start":7843.649,"end":7864.406,"text":"他的基準嘛那你如果說針對立委、黨團依照立法院自行行政法所發出去的問卷你的問題有道理沒有道理社會大眾會檢驗你如果說寫了一拖拉顧非常愚蠢的問題或者是問了一堆根本就不應該問的問題就好像我們現在"},{"start":7867.202,"end":7875.591,"text":"在很多立法院公開的場合裡面你去問行政院院長很蠢的問題傷的是你自己也不會是被問問題的人嘛"},{"start":7877.372,"end":7902.12,"text":"那因此各個黨團就依照立法院職權行使法的規定就做自己覺得應該在同意權行使的過程當中應該要做的事嘛那你認為你應該要做的事情被提名的人覺得你根本無理取鬧寫了一百題很蠢的問題要我回答那我為什麼要回答那這個也是被提名的人他們自己的選擇好,請吳事由幹事長請發言"},{"start":7906.281,"end":7926.473,"text":"我想就回到條文,確實如剛剛在野的委員所提,同意權的行使在立法院職權行使法第四章裡頭有明確的一些條文29條開始。剛剛也提到,我們現在在協商討論的就是同意權行使在法律的授權之下,我們在決定遊戲規則。"},{"start":7928.274,"end":7944.57,"text":"所以同樣的在條文裡頭沒有哪一條告訴我們說各政黨可以推幾位來詢問每位幾分鐘這個條文也沒有明定嘛所以我們現在協商就是針對合線性的解釋下的同意權行使的程序透過朝野協商針對我們排幾天"},{"start":7946.432,"end":7948.752,"text":"提議（民進黨黨團提議（民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨黨團提議．民進黨黨黨團提議．民進黨黨黨團提議．民進黨黨黨團"},{"start":7974.657,"end":7996.144,"text":"但是在數量上是不是能夠做一個明確的討論,再來討論看看。我想這也沒有說違反條文的部分。那事實上我甚至也認為在討論大家提問的這個數量是有其必要的。為什麼?因為我們給予就條文的二十九之一的第二項很清楚地給予答覆的期限。"},{"start":7997.364,"end":8020.818,"text":"所以當然不樂見說可能這個在題目的數量上本身是溢出了這個合宜的答覆的時間的這個限制。大家要合理的提問。而事實上呢在個別委員或是黨團在未及於用書面來詢問的都可以在個別行使同意權的那個詢答過程在予以去做口頭的詢問。"},{"start":8023.422,"end":8050.784,"text":"剛剛有在議黨委員說（各自的黨團提了什麼樣的題目（這個也都是公開的（大家不會去問到什麼離譜的題目（否則一笑大方（我只是要提醒（之前確實是有對於大法官（跟考試院提名人（某黨團所提出來的書面問題（確實溢出了合議的部分（譬如說要求這些被提名人（來對於還沒有進行憲法解釋的條文內容（"},{"start":8051.364,"end":8052.645,"text":"提議（台灣民眾黨團提議．台灣民進黨黨團提議．台灣民進黨黨團提議．台灣民進黨黨團提議．"},{"start":8074.513,"end":8097.182,"text":"謝謝司法院長,柯總召要去...好,沒關係,請林思明署長發言,柯總召請準備。好,謝謝主席。那個,院長,我想我們立法委員不應該自我設限,因為現在我們的立法院之間其實法有關這一部分並沒有說我們說什麼問問題要多少題,我們有相關的規定。"},{"start":8097.822,"end":8121.951,"text":"那我們自己就自我矮化說我只能問幾題我想這個是非常離譜啦那我也希望說政黨你們有你們的立場你們想對這些考委在愛護他們的心態啦像他們當媽寶他們不會回答問題不至於啦我想我們問的問題也一定會非常的有深度所以你也不要去考量說我們會立題啦"},{"start":8123.992,"end":8152.62,"text":"所以我想設限真的是自我矮化,所以我想我們不贊成,謝謝。好,謝謝柯總,再發言,台灣民眾黨請準備。我們並沒有說什麼媽寶不媽寶的問題。包括我們剛才政黨比例問的時候,二二一也是法沒有明定。我們是講一個原則通則性的問題。因為要問問題的時候,當然我們,我剛才講就是說,每一個政黨、政黨比例有幾個問題,那我們大家設定好就好。"},{"start":8153.632,"end":8176.399,"text":"當然一定要有正常比率,這個我們先確定。第二個就是說,有關於個別委員,要詢問個別委員的事情,那就在執行的時候去處理,所以這樣才能夠走得下去。你這套一樣,這樣的大法官所有都是一樣,所以剛才王國燚講了一句話,他不回答也可以,但是呢,"},{"start":8177.779,"end":8185.022,"text":"民進黨團提議（民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議．民進黨團提議�"},{"start":8206.952,"end":8207.252,"text":"臺灣民眾黨團有補充意見嗎?"},{"start":8223.57,"end":8236.138,"text":"如果再說明一次各個黨團依照立法院職權行事法他要問的問題就提出來各個黨團對各個黨團所提出來的問題去負責任我們是不支持在黨團協商那個現場"},{"start":8238.012,"end":8238.833,"text":"各黨團幹部我們再休息三分鐘"},{"start":8570.533,"end":8591.396,"text":"非常感謝各黨團幹部,大家都非常意見都開誠布公,感謝。我們柯建民總召要求再一次發言,請。我今天再次也發言,並不是要袒護任何提名人,大家你放心,我們都有這種心態。那當然我是要先以一個先任管理和先任體制上的高度來看這個事情。"},{"start":8592.455,"end":8621.352,"text":"那當然我了解要去限制各黨現在大家可能談不下去我也可以接受但是呢我的原則就是說當你問他個別問題的時候他可以留待留待你質詢的時候回答他還可以不回答剛才黃中委員所談的那就用這個原則來那不要當作說他在比試的時候沒有回答就是這樣做成一個口實這樣我們這樣比較好好不好"},{"start":8622.413,"end":8638.766,"text":"這是一個民主嗎?謝謝柯建民總召的叮嚀跟關心,非常感謝。那剛才這個我們五點協商結論,請問各位黨團幹部有任何寶貴意見要提出?沒有的話,我就先簽署好不好?好,非常感謝。好。"},{"start":8648.988,"end":8658.153,"text":"謝謝那各位黨團幹部手上還有一個追加預算的資料在各位手上各位在簽的時候容許我來念一下立法院黨團協商結論"},{"start":8661.202,"end":8677.993,"text":"113年11月12日星期二下午3點半,地點紅樓302會議室,決定事項。11月19日星期二,邀請行政院長、主計長、財政部長及相關部會首長列席報告《113年度中央政府總預算追加預算案》。"},{"start":8679.938,"end":8708.505,"text":"編制經過並備諮詢（諮詢人數由國民黨團推派九位（民進黨團推派九位（台灣民眾黨團推派一位進行（諮詢順序依例授權議事處辦理（上述名單請於11月18日（星期一中午12點前送至議事處會診（議案詢答完畢後即交審查（各黨團同意不再提出複議（"},{"start":8709.605,"end":8712.908,"text":"各黨團推派的代表按照以前的例子,要不然就771嘛,要不然就992嘛"},{"start":8732.899,"end":8740.512,"text":"當然你如果說你一天的時間希望能夠充分使用的話讓大家想問的問題多問一點的話"},{"start":8742.884,"end":8760.969,"text":"站在人民的立場來監督．我覺得也是好事嘛所以我只想要爭取一下啦是不是992那如果大家絕對沒有辦法同意的話那就回到以前的771了解謝謝台灣民眾黨團、黃國昌總接下來請柯建民總統請發言國民黨團請準備上次曾經771後來變992當然那時候是大家協調的結果但是還回到立法院長期以來從來沒有這種"},{"start":8771.132,"end":8795.685,"text":"九九二這個事情,都是七七一,那我們就不要破壞。好,柯建民總召提出七七一,國民黨團請發言。沒有意見。好,請傅坤祺總召請發言。其實我覺得,我們大黨要有格局啦。既然,既然是這個,很重要的這個人事權的行使啊,各種"},{"start":8798.447,"end":8822.703,"text":"最佳預算也是一樣,人事權也是一樣我覺得我們要一貫的基層以事之難道預算案比人事權不重要嗎?所以說這是一個很簡單的事情我覺得大黨有很多的時間在表達意見我覺得讓小黨大家可以講992我覺得更無所謂啦這個無所謂啦"},{"start":8829.789,"end":8844.658,"text":"該來院會就要來院會嘛,該來報告就要來報告嘛。所以對過去柯總召常常啊,這個念念有詞不斷在講,該來報告該來問就來問,都要面對啦。我是覺得992我覺得沒有什麼關係嘛,這都是小事嘛,都是小事。在議會這麼久,歡迎歡迎所有的這個蔡偉強這樣比喻的發言。"},{"start":8856.405,"end":8874.473,"text":"就是這種比喻,就是771當然那時候我講說你們可以讓那過去不管是台聯不管是那個民眾黨實在一樣都是我們私下讓給他但是那個原則還是要守住就是說"},{"start":8875.738,"end":8903.856,"text":"雖然正常比喻是正常比喻,我想剛才黃國昌也不支持,也可以同意。我想就照一貫原則這麼多年來,市長沒有破壞過,說施加當就當嘛。所以還是照正常比喻這樣處理,否則的話正常比喻幹什麼?請台灣民眾黨黃總召請發言。我再說一次我的原則,按照比例我沒有意見。按照比例我沒意見。那如果是按照比例也不應該是991嘛。"},{"start":8906.08,"end":8933.771,"text":"對嘛對啦但是我現在發的我是完全按照這個書面來發言嘛有改771嘛那如果按照柯建民總召剛剛所講的這個比例的原則這麼重要的話我們剛簽那個協商結論要不要再回去修改一下用771啊怎麼會改成331呢這個比例不對啊這是剛性的原則啊剛性的結論啊硬邦邦的啊"},{"start":8934.531,"end":8934.551,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":8947.532,"end":8965.78,"text":"我們剛才簽的原則是同意權行使,大概經過協商的。這樣一個發言在立法院從來沒有被破壞過。我記得上次黃國昌委員是說,來十分鐘他說那我給我二十分鐘,給我多五分鐘時間來問。後來乾脆就..."},{"start":8969.386,"end":8978.819,"text":"九九二那是一個破例那在執行的時候我們總執行是不是照這張比例一定是這樣所以這個東西我們來鎖住也不插這個我並沒有說不讓誰問"},{"start":8984.561,"end":9008.246,"text":"謝謝大家我做一個我的經驗回顧那一天是我們在能源結構調整的時候同樣面臨到一模一樣的情況黃國昌總召提說15分鐘實在太短希望增加到20分鐘然後最後吳思瑤幹事長說既然如此我們就992如果我沒有記錯的話所以顯然992是有利可循我也跟柯總召特別報告一下就是因為當初"},{"start":9010.186,"end":9029.734,"text":"原頭就是因為黃國昌總統說15分鐘我們真的很難表示我們希望有20分鐘最後才同意了992這個我們就我大致上這樣講一下喚醒一下大家的這個回憶那我也要喚醒一下大家的記憶不要把992變成是我去套上去的"},{"start":9030.454,"end":9050.457,"text":"當初我要求的也是捍衛著我們立法院職權行使法（對於質詢的時間15分鐘（不得預15分鐘是回歸法律（吳斯堯的發言一切都是依據我們的法律（所以才會說（如果是15分鐘是一個基本的unit（是個單位的話（"},{"start":9051.638,"end":9054.18,"text":"（民進黨團提議（民進黨團提議（民進黨團提議（民進黨團提議（民進黨團提議（民進黨團提議（民進黨團提議（民進黨團提議（民進黨團提議（民進黨團提議（民進黨團提議（民進黨團提議（"},{"start":9082.279,"end":9084.701,"text":"你這個以後總書記的時候怎麼辦?這個制度不應該破壞"},{"start":9107.461,"end":9114.749,"text":"好像說要五分鐘不就要四、五分鐘勒?那是一個當然是要堅持四、五分鐘的嘛。所以這個這樣比例是沒有人破壞過的。好不好?"},{"start":9121.158,"end":9140.035,"text":"不是啊,上次我們是五委員提,是九九二的啊,對不對?15分鐘,啊你就說九九二也是你提的,所以對啊,也是你提的。啊現在我們柯總裁來過皇帝的命令就不行了,這樣不像是,這樣子前言不對後語好嗎?蔡議員前言不對後語,這樣不好。"},{"start":9178.746,"end":9181.99,"text":"所以我們釋出善意嘛,771,民進黨讓一個名額給民眾黨委員嘛,這樣子OK啊,771,因為過去都這樣,我們也願意。"},{"start":9826.933,"end":9846.175,"text":"謝謝各位黨團幹部,大家請坐。現在國民黨團傅坤祺總召要求發言,請。謝謝院長,我們還是這個原則,莫忘世上苦人多,協商最苦。"},{"start":9847.799,"end":9866.303,"text":"那我想今天也難得我看到柯總召像一尊佛坐在那裡剛剛一直都從協商開始都還蠻正常的那現在既然這個問題又觸礁了我要講話你不要用拿麥克風你不要搶麥克風我想院長這樣子啦因為剛剛柯總召一直強調意思慣例是如此"},{"start":9876.021,"end":9879.174,"text":"那這個我第一次從烏斯堯"},{"start":9881.555,"end":9907.253,"text":"這個幹事長嘴裡聽到我很感動的一句話立法院要照議事規則來走所以我非常感動他們竟然都這樣講所以不管是771、992我都支持但是我會把它一個概念就是說如果是771的話國民黨跟民眾黨是有巴西好不好這我們南白再討論就好了好不好"},{"start":9908.214,"end":9908.234,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":9936.442,"end":9946.27,"text":"好,謝謝副國務卿總召。柯總召請發言。台灣民眾黨團請準備。因為這個資本比喻牽涉到將來委員會人數的問題,以及召委選舉問題,所以這個非常慎重。過去就是像這樣了,我們來編組啦。就是誰讓自己去處理就好了。這樣比較隱瞞啦。謝謝柯總召。黃總召請發言。"},{"start":9965.095,"end":9985.537,"text":"我們要的基本上就是一個原則也感謝其他黨團的好意有人說要讓,有人說要混合邊處台灣民眾黨黨團我們要的就是按照原則來處理那可能在這件事情上面我們不會要求什麼特別的待遇"},{"start":9987.137,"end":9996.393,"text":"要七七也可以只是說可能下一次今天看起來協商剛聽院長的意思是到六點為止"},{"start":9998.499,"end":10027.251,"text":"沒有要繼續下去嗎那可能也請那個議事處的同仁稍微辛苦一下因為我們凡事要按照規則如果凡事要按照規則的話我們那個數學要把它計算好所謂數學要計算好是什麼意思現在台灣民眾黨八席嘛八席除以八等於一嘛"},{"start":10029.972,"end":10054.087,"text":"數學是不會騙人的8除以8等於1嘛那51除以8等於多少54除以8等於多少這個數學的商數啊要把它算出來因為我老實講按照數學的商數來加以計算正確的比例是7比6比1啊這才是正確的數學商數的計算這個數學一點都不困難"},{"start":10055.546,"end":10073.57,"text":"因為51除以8等於多少51除以8等於6.3多四捨五入根本不到7這很重要這牽涉到我們立法院以後遊戲規則的大是大非數學也沒很複雜8除以8等於1請問51除以8等於多少"},{"start":10079.145,"end":10093.834,"text":"等於6點多沒有超過6.5嘛那54除以8等於多少?等於6點多但有超過5嘛所以正確的比例應該是多少?應該是7比6比1啊這個才是正確的PROPORTION"},{"start":10095.069,"end":10108.888,"text":"那這個事情一點都不複雜所以是不是請那個院長麻煩我們議事組的同仁稍微計算一下這個原則非常的重要我覺得就把它給定下來好了"},{"start":10109.997,"end":10122.786,"text":"那以後我們也不用為了這個事情再多做爭論數學是騙不了人的啦我講一下這是政黨比例國民黨政黨是52人我是51人不是黨團比例好不好這是政黨比例"},{"start":10130.347,"end":10147.199,"text":"不是有兩位加入你們嗎?我沒有要幫中國國民黨證據。你用政黨比例也可以啊。看到底應該用政黨比例還是用黨團人數當比例。我們授權議事人員去計算。那算起來也應該是6比6比1吧。"},{"start":10151.766,"end":10154.987,"text":"提議．台灣民眾黨黨團提議．台灣民眾黨黨團提議．台灣民眾黨黨團提議．台灣民眾黨黨團提議．台灣民眾黨黨團提議．台灣民眾黨黨團提議．台灣民眾黨黨團提議．"},{"start":10180.236,"end":10197.014,"text":"沒有要智慧的餘地我尊重中國國民黨團他們的黨因為我自己的認知啦是高金素美委員跟另外一個委員是加入中國國民黨、黨團來運作嘛那在立法院裡面的運作當然是應該要按照加入各個黨團的人數來計算啦"},{"start":10201.133,"end":10216.569,"text":"不好意思喔,我現在在發言,你憑什麼按麥克風說我不准再吵?這個是哪門制的議事規則啊?請你把你的麥克風給洗掉。沒有沒有沒有,我覺得今天規則,把它給算清楚。"},{"start":10217.19,"end":10239.598,"text":"你如果要按照黨團人數的比例今天這個數字是錯的應該是7比6比1那如果中國國民黨黨團認為高清跟另外一位加入黨團的不要列入計算要6比6比1我們也沒意見但我覺得這個原則很重要牽涉到大是大非我們這一次把規則定清楚那以後這件事情就不要再爭論了"},{"start":10243.188,"end":10244.089,"text":"我好想再喊休息三分鐘"},{"start":10260.942,"end":10273.031,"text":"來,我跟大家報告一下,因為我們,我跟各黨團報告一下,明天後天,請大家做好心理準備,我們要繼續黨團協商。我們因為今天時間開始太晚,我們下午三點半,明後天可能要稍微早一點。"},{"start":10276.414,"end":10301.152,"text":"我想這一黨團這個數字已經在我手上,下一次我們來做一個報告,讓大家更能清楚一點。今天前面都非常的好,後面大家意見上有一點不一樣,在我也是覺得心裡很可惜。現在我們就接近六點了,那我們是不是後續的題目我們就找時間再來繼續協商。"},{"start":10305.477,"end":10306.318,"text":"我們休息三分鐘"},{"start":10417.272,"end":10446.187,"text":"謝謝各位黨團幹部,非常辛苦,大家都非常辛苦,讓我嘗試一下,再來念一下。也謝謝大家尊重主席的裁決。那,我們這次,我們所有的說案報告大家質詢的比例就是771。這一點呢,要請大家能夠同意。至於下一次朝野協商,我們會把最正確的數字來算出來,請各黨團要心理準備。那下一次我們會把正確的數字,而且完全是科學的。"},{"start":10446.687,"end":10470.014,"text":"而且是精準的。好吧,下一次我們來唸。今天我們就不要再影響這樣的一個氣氛了。那現在是接近六點。我們明後天朝以協商的時候,我們就繼續來協商今天所列的這些要協商的題目。那追加預算我們拜託大家簽一下好嗎?好,謝謝。我們會徵詢大家意見。他個別都有時間,對,會徵詢大家。"},{"start":10475.618,"end":10492.133,"text":"對稍微早一點今天上來下次草野協商展因為今天這個畫這個"},{"start":10517.452,"end":10533.553,"text":"好,各位黨團幹部,我們星期四下午兩點繼續朝野協商,好嗎?好,我們就不限時間了,星期四就一直往下推了,好不好?那下次順便會跟各位報告一下以後政黨發言的比例數字,一併跟大家報告,好不好?好,我們現在散會,謝謝!"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}