{"error":false,"id":["162532"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":162532,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162532","日期":"2025-06-16","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-3-36-20","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":3,"會次":20,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-06-16T12:12:09+08:00","結束時間":"2025-06-16T12:25:06+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:57","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/880d22d0956e9b7d9a24793132b9791965ca6c232fe926b71ee0ab7c138f16ac33e48bbe8774fc435ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"12:12:09 - 12:25:06","會議時間":"2025-06-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請法務部部長、法務部矯正署署長、法務部廉政署率所屬相關單位列席就「鑑於近來矯正監所暴力衝突事件頻傳，如何維護『矯正是刑事司法最後一道防線』及相關獄政策進作為，包括提升戒護人力資源」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、繼續併案審查\n（一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「監察院組織法第三條之一及第三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員王鴻薇等17人擬具「監察院組織法第三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查委員徐巧芯等22人擬具「監察院國家人權委員會組織法第三條條文修正草案」案。\n【6月16日及18日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.48409375,"end":19.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.80846875,"end":21.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.00596875,"end":25.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.02284375,"end":25.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.35034375,"end":35.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.68346875,"end":38.438468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.82659375,"end":41.729093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.92721875,"end":44.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.44159375,"end":49.930343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.52096875,"end":52.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.86659375,"end":54.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.84096875,"end":56.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.203468750000006,"end":61.118468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.67534375,"end":65.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.962218750000005,"end":63.025343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.40471875,"end":67.37909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.85159375,"end":71.58096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.72846875,"end":85.08096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.18284375,"end":94.58159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.05846875,"end":109.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.57284375,"end":96.94409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.21721875,"end":115.20284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.06409375000001,"end":113.75159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.88221875,"end":122.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.15596875000001,"end":121.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.82596875,"end":126.03659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.22221875000001,"end":134.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.36846875,"end":142.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.41034375,"end":145.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.42596875,"end":146.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.85596875000002,"end":148.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.12971875000002,"end":151.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.42471875,"end":155.38221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.37784375,"end":157.52534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.96409375000002,"end":158.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.22971875000002,"end":160.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.93409375000002,"end":162.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.07721875000001,"end":164.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.00096875,"end":166.72221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.88659375,"end":169.25346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.40534375000001,"end":171.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.84784375,"end":176.49284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":177.31971875000002,"end":178.60221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.26034375,"end":181.09971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.70721875,"end":182.78721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.47909375,"end":185.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.65596875,"end":187.07346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.22096875000003,"end":189.57096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.62971875000002,"end":193.35096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.77284375000002,"end":194.98784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.05534375000002,"end":195.93284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.89471875,"end":197.97471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.66659375,"end":199.25721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.11784375000002,"end":200.87721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.67034375,"end":202.58159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.28596875000002,"end":205.63596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.15909375,"end":207.22221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.44971875000002,"end":210.24284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.15409375000002,"end":211.99784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.11159375000003,"end":218.76471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.81096875,"end":222.00471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.16909375,"end":228.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.73784375000002,"end":232.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.32784375000003,"end":260.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.66971875,"end":269.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.73971875,"end":278.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":279.31221875,"end":280.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.38784375,"end":282.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.22721875,"end":289.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.19659375000003,"end":290.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.75346875,"end":295.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.63034375,"end":297.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":298.70159375000003,"end":300.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.73909375,"end":302.92034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.59534375000004,"end":304.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.16471875,"end":306.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.64534375,"end":310.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.80096875000004,"end":313.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.88909375000003,"end":314.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.01534375,"end":316.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.44971875000005,"end":318.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":318.58034375,"end":320.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.38159375000004,"end":322.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.03534375000004,"end":324.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.87471875,"end":330.24096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":331.20284375,"end":332.60346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.39659375,"end":336.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.87284375,"end":343.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":344.31471875,"end":347.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.85846875000004,"end":349.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.38971875000004,"end":351.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.82409375000003,"end":352.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.97159375,"end":358.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.21534375000005,"end":360.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.07159375000003,"end":369.27284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":370.15034375000005,"end":372.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.74471875,"end":374.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":375.28034375000004,"end":376.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.98471875,"end":377.98034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.94221875000005,"end":380.76471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.38909375000003,"end":383.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":383.81909375000004,"end":384.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.78909375,"end":388.22346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.78034375000004,"end":392.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":393.53909375,"end":398.34846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.15846875000005,"end":403.25909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.03534375000004,"end":404.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.46096875,"end":410.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":411.02159375,"end":414.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.97034375000004,"end":416.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.19784375,"end":420.80909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":421.26471875000004,"end":422.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":422.73284375000003,"end":425.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.70284375,"end":442.98284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.98284375000003,"end":445.51409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.23596875000004,"end":443.59034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":446.00346875,"end":447.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.06221875000006,"end":449.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.90159375,"end":454.00221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":454.50846875,"end":465.49409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":466.32096875,"end":468.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":468.88596875,"end":469.98284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":470.30346875000004,"end":471.53534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.68721875000006,"end":473.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":474.42096875000004,"end":480.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":481.20471875000004,"end":483.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.63471875000005,"end":484.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":485.49096875000004,"end":487.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.26284375000006,"end":489.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":489.92909375000005,"end":490.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":490.65471875000003,"end":491.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.22409375,"end":494.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":494.95784375000005,"end":496.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.64534375000005,"end":497.16846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.84784375000004,"end":500.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.37909375000004,"end":500.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.28596875000005,"end":509.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.52596875000006,"end":504.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":509.35221875,"end":517.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":517.9753437500001,"end":519.9834687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":520.4053437499999,"end":523.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":525.26534375,"end":529.2478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.3159687500001,"end":525.7378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.7922187500001,"end":534.5803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.0190937500001,"end":540.6553437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":540.4865937500001,"end":542.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.8659687500001,"end":546.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":545.5659687500001,"end":547.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.28721875,"end":551.6072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":550.0378437500001,"end":554.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.7378437500001,"end":552.7547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":553.95284375,"end":555.6740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":555.1003437500001,"end":559.8928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.75409375,"end":561.6984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":564.29721875,"end":567.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":567.85784375,"end":568.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":569.1572187500001,"end":570.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":570.10221875,"end":570.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.5872187500001,"end":573.2747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":574.42221875,"end":581.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":582.58971875,"end":584.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.26034375,"end":584.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":585.40784375,"end":585.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":585.42471875,"end":588.3272187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":585.4922187500001,"end":587.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.8334687500001,"end":590.6728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.90909375,"end":593.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.27159375,"end":593.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.4865937500001,"end":595.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":595.97159375,"end":603.2278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":603.97034375,"end":605.4553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":607.36221875,"end":615.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":616.4072187500001,"end":623.7647187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.96721875,"end":629.6540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":629.6540937500001,"end":633.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.9578437499999,"end":643.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":634.63221875,"end":639.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":641.1628437500001,"end":645.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":646.0734687500001,"end":650.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.40659375,"end":647.5247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":647.5247187500001,"end":647.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.98034375,"end":648.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":651.9965937500001,"end":652.8234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":653.1103437500001,"end":654.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":656.2490937499999,"end":656.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":657.3628437500001,"end":659.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":659.69159375,"end":660.3159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":660.68721875,"end":661.6828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":662.62784375,"end":666.3740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":666.82971875,"end":669.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":670.5928437500002,"end":672.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":673.2084687500001,"end":673.6303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":673.9509687500001,"end":676.4653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":676.81971875,"end":677.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.07284375,"end":678.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":678.4734687499999,"end":683.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":683.6709687500002,"end":691.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":692.0578437500001,"end":698.3859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":698.8247187500001,"end":700.1240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":700.5459687500002,"end":706.9922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":707.5659687500001,"end":711.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":712.0547187500001,"end":720.9309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":721.9265937499999,"end":724.8290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":725.33534375,"end":732.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":733.21596875,"end":735.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":735.8484687499999,"end":736.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":736.6584687500001,"end":743.2397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":743.8640937499999,"end":745.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":745.7878437500001,"end":752.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":752.9934687500001,"end":756.7397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":757.4990937500002,"end":767.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":768.24846875,"end":770.1047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":770.47596875,"end":772.2478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":772.56846875,"end":773.9015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":774.52596875,"end":775.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":776.53409375,"end":777.20909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":16.836,"end":39.473,"text":"請法務部長跟監察院的複密麻煩複密 法務部長委員好保定剛才趙志偉問你檢測官的倫理規範第13條裡面有沒有入罵"},{"start":45.475,"end":71.355,"text":"或者是不合適的不正的訊問你說你會抽查你如果有發現你會去倒證對不對今天早上黃國昌給你看的那個是不是一個辱罵那沒有違反一個檢察官該有的倫理規範嗎現在更嚴重的那是一個模擬的示範光碟啦其實你鑽石業有聽到嗎包括掃秀配比這個更嚴重啊"},{"start":72.813,"end":84.876,"text":"邵秀佩是直接你們的檢察官喔直接怎麼問他他說你有用廉政署那一套你現在可以呼嚨過去嗎你可以呼嚨過去嗎你給我試看看這是不是不正的詢問有沒有這個當事人之間或證人之間有沒有這些的問題現在法院在審理中嘛我覺得我們任何人都應該跟涉法院的一個審判嘛包括你我都在內這個邵秀佩在庭上都有證實了嘛所以柯文哲明確說把這個光碟呈現給大家"},{"start":101.522,"end":120.34,"text":"給大家看 結果你們檢察官 你們背景的檢察官可以阻擋說光底可以公開 你是作賊心虛啊你要跟法官主張這次法院審理中我們不適合在這次法院去談論審理中的問題法定 你們如果沒有不正信問 沒有作賊心虛為什麼連光底都不可以 都不可以勘驗啊為什麼都不能公開呢"},{"start":123.837,"end":128.918,"text":"你民眾違反了這個倫理規範不是嗎你現在不是個個案欸你當一個大家長你的檢察官辦案辦成這樣子全國都有質疑的時候你不去導正人們強辯這個我沒有強辯喔現在案件在法院的審理方法反正這些光碟陸陸續續都會出來會有真相的人民也會看法務部為什麼要掩蓋那麼多的事實好來請阿王 王副秘"},{"start":153.462,"end":171.356,"text":"妳在監察院應該很久了啦,對不對?是,我在監察院快40年妳有發現啦,妳最近監察院的工作量啊,打折又打折結果薪水一直要往上走嗎?我去統計了一下,妳第五屆應該在監察院對不對?在監察院你們開的這個宴會在第五屆的時候,我去統計了37次啊"},{"start":177.352,"end":182.514,"text":"平均的開會時間75.97到你這一屆的新的監察院打對折耶同樣是開會會砍了一半的時間剩下多少33.67 更過分了陳琦 陳院長發病了生病以後 又打對折"},{"start":204.312,"end":231.738,"text":"我去看你們最近這五次 開會的這個時間齁 真的是有幾次啊你們這一屆不足十分鐘的會議有十次陳局 陳院長請假完之後要開四分鐘的 開六分鐘的要照這個院會去比較你們薪水是不是應該打折 再打折所以只能領四分之一你們這樣怎麼對得起人民偶爾獲偶爾入民脂民膏"},{"start":233.336,"end":259.216,"text":"跟委員說明一下有關於監察職權是不是有比第五屆行使有減少的狀況其實我們有統計我們有統計不管是人民書狀的收受或者是彈劾的人數或者是糾舉或者是糾正甚至質問等等或者中央巡查地方巡查我們所有職權的行使跟第五屆比較起來同期比較起來"},{"start":259.796,"end":261.878,"text":"同樣的標準啊你議會是怎麼不只是同樣的院會不只是萎縮欸萎縮到以前的四分之一特別是陳吉晨院長"},{"start":270.782,"end":297.255,"text":"你們是智慧武功嗎你們怎麼可以這樣對待你們怎麼對得起你們領的薪水欸 一個監察院的監察委員這位女生多少錢比照部會首長欸這樣怎麼對得起民眾啊下次的宴會你們承諾下次宴會好好開好啊 虧你至少回到第六屆或第五屆的一開始嘛你們現在根本我就看你們議程連案子都沒內什麼共識連案子都沒內怎麼對得起民眾然後你們怎麼花錢你們竟然會編列出國的預算"},{"start":301.946,"end":329.411,"text":"這北海道看天熊 種錢當然要砍啊不砍對得起民眾嗎這一個 所以現在監察院為什麼要廢除一個是功能不彰 浪費人民的民脂民膏你一開始 你們今年編的預算欸 十億九千萬欸三減完之後 還有八億多欸你們用的是每一分錢都是人民辛辛苦苦的納稅錢一年的監察院花我們人民納稅錢"},{"start":331.26,"end":342.825,"text":"八億都是這樣開會的一個是浪費民主民革的同時更嚴重的是什麼變成個酬庸養老院的同時工人還不髒甚至變成民進黨的打手我給你看幾個案子來不只是大家一直在討論的欸你們用公務車去送自己的愛犬去去美容的同時時間趕快不能再拖了你們說立即要調查對不對立即調查一個多月快兩個月了這樣怎麼對得起人民不是只有"},{"start":361.124,"end":368.727,"text":"你們秘書長李經歷下台的問題 還有三個人送紀律委員會要開要趕快開 你們時間是在賽跑的你們立即怎麼會變成一個都會兩個都會還在立即更嚴重的來 你看看你們的案子你們是這樣對得起人民的嗎 是變成民進黨的打手陳中彥 台南地檢署還起訴他他接受這個赫娃酒這個招待 業者也承認了"},{"start":386.846,"end":404.637,"text":"相關的人全部都承認了只有一個人 陳仲諺到後來沒有談和成還11比2 你們怎麼對得起人民呢這是當初要設立監察院的目的嗎你們不只沒有好好去辦這個犯罪變成個貪腐的共犯集團了超思雞蛋超思雞蛋在110年的9月份就檢舉了 就已經到你們那邊去檢舉了已經快三年了咧你們辦到哪裡去了"},{"start":417.233,"end":425.014,"text":"你紀念你秘書長站在你這樣的位置他說等北檢一定會彈劾等北檢調查完好那我問這還算不算數"},{"start":425.885,"end":448.808,"text":"報告委員那個陳忠英案件我剛剛有說明過了有關於超思的部分呢其實是有已經有提出調查報告而且有糾正也有糾結也有彈劾然後而且把相關的事證資料非常完整的移到檢察署去偵辦你們那個調查齁最重要的兩個人高高舉起輕輕放下真正決策者是誰"},{"start":450.026,"end":464.969,"text":"那些人就去保定啊 身體重 約了以後就放回去啦 對不對你沖嫌啊 中央市長會啊 你們有查嗎你們碰到民進黨的高官就轉彎啊所以人家才說你們打蒼蠅啊 蚊子院啊 蒼蠅院啊碰到民進黨就轉彎啊 雙標院啊怎麼對得起這名現在更嚴重的超時雞蛋 你看 該辦的人還沒有辦第二個時機已經拖這麼久"},{"start":474.468,"end":493.087,"text":"你那個糾正報告雖然有提了某部分關鍵的人沒有好好辦嘛最重要兩個人嘛好那現在我再問啦我問了李慶麗她說一定會彈劾嘛有 有彈劾沒有彈劾啊你現在只聽在糾正啊有糾正有糾決有彈劾你們現在彈劾了誰我們已經彈劾了張經緯"},{"start":495.017,"end":523.309,"text":"只有一個嘛 對不對其他你本來調查的還有其他的官員呢跟委員說明這個監察院在處理彈劾案件 糾舉案件是有相關的事證具備了以後那才會對人來究責對嘛 所以你們的秘書長答應我說會盡快去辦這個案子嘛然後要彈劾嘛 結果你現在只辦了一個人嘛第二個當然為什麼要把法務部長找上來 否定你這個超思雞蛋拖三個月啊你們現在全部在辦柯文哲在辦那個國民黨那個什麼幽靈連署是吧"},{"start":525.399,"end":542.621,"text":"一個超思雞蛋你們把相關人約去你們就停跟委員報告這台北電在爭判中啦那也搜索了也扣案了也扣案了也有約談了那我想這部分我們也尊重北檢的偵查機構因為我對台北電你知不知道你前面約談到現在停多久了"},{"start":543.381,"end":555.244,"text":"這個我們尊重北檢的審查計劃因為我覺得你按那個暫停鍵你已經按了多久了我覺得要給人家檢查你們現在是所有的責任都在辦柯文哲都在辦那個國民黨的那個幽靈連署罷了詐騙案那麼多不好好辦然後一個超出雞蛋人民納稅前當會五億多"},{"start":564.315,"end":592.843,"text":"停太久了吧 你怎麼對得起人民而且你們的辦案是怎麼樣剛剛在講的陳其仲跟林聰賢你們約去以後人家請回了耶所有台灣的民眾都看得清有第一個大會人民那麼多錢超過五億耶 五億三千萬耶第二個真的結社者都沒事你們在辦案你們怎麼對得起人民時間他太長 該辦的人不辦但如果辦的話有收手 有扣押扣了六千多萬啦 六千九百多萬啦"},{"start":594.917,"end":605.4,"text":"扣啦 五億三千多萬你扣了六千多而且現在把責任全部都推給那個業者這是什麼 官員被騙沒關係 這個案子第一個我看你要再拖多久 第二個辦出來所以現在人民眼睛是血亮的啦在看法務部怎麼辦 在看監察院怎麼辦這個案子啦"},{"start":617.989,"end":633.602,"text":"因為這個案件是北檢在辦我覺得我要尊重北檢他們獨立的偵查權我們要給他一個好的不要去受到任何干涉的一個辦案空間對啦 你北檢在辦案有興趣的他在辦科文哲什麼好像在雷厲風行如果他不想辦該約的人也不好好關鍵人不好好辦這個人民會判斷的到底有沒有雙標"},{"start":646.132,"end":672.652,"text":"有沒有雙標 人民會親入看另外還有一個案子我特別提醒 監察那個 複密去年啦 河山場的一號機停了之後台電竟然去跟燒煤的麥寮又繼續延約了一堆雲林嘉義跟彰化的民眾還有一些民團 環保團體都上來抗議我還陪著他們親和民團存情喔這個案子要辦喔 你不能再拖了 已經拖久了"},{"start":674.144,"end":690.175,"text":"報告委員,我們已經提出調查意見,已經有提出上個...那你們去追責任,有沒有繼續再燒嗎?你們的意見是怎麼樣?衛土然後呢?衛土然後繼續燒,然後繼續傷害我們人民的健康,火力要全開,用這個燒煤,婚姻人生要漂亮,嫁娶嫁,種花人生要漂亮"},{"start":692.53,"end":720.603,"text":"會線一直在往上走那叫設監察院幹什麼所以我剛剛講一開始設監察院直施抨擊耶結果你現在已經幾個問題了第一個你浪費民脂民膏你功能不髒的同時第二個變成了養老院然後更嚴重的你現在變成說該有的案子到你那邊時程大或者沒有處理你不只沒有直施抨擊發揮你該有的糾正或者是彈劾的這個潛力耶一時呆乎沒有發生潛力他還變成了貪腐的一個"},{"start":722.397,"end":742.726,"text":"變成溫床了你這樣不是變成共犯嗎所以當然要刪掉啊廢除監察院我相信你現在去做一個投票全民大概我相信在這八成以上都要廢監察院好在廢之前廢五之言了富民你說你在監察院待那麼久了監察院以前曾經高峰諒解過我七十兩年開始一直照監察院的新聞的時候"},{"start":743.925,"end":750.451,"text":"那金蟬多被人家尊敬啊 雷震案 雷震案什麼一個案子每次議員會外講 那個時候都是各報的頭版頭欸記者在那邊鎖著 可能一兩個月前 就開始在追那個新聞啊你們提出來的糾正案或者彈劾案 全民都是矚目的 對社會是正面的那搞到現在變成一個蚊子院 還變成一個貪腐的一個蚊床 怎麼會這樣"},{"start":768.374,"end":775.051,"text":"這把以前的理想跟改革找回來好不好廢之前趕快重振這個監察院的雄風好不好加油大家"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1054,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（12時12分）請法務部長及監察院副秘。"],["主席：麻煩副秘、部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，剛才陳昭姿委員在問你檢察官的倫理規範第十三條，裡面有沒有辱罵或者是不合適的不正訊問，你說你會抽查，如果有發現，你會去導正，對不對？今天早上黃國昌給你看的那個是不是辱罵，沒有違反一個檢察官該有的倫理規範嗎？現在更嚴重的……"],["鄭部長銘謙：早上委員講這不是偵訊光碟。"],["張委員啓楷：那是一個模擬的示範光碟，其實你這段時間有聽到，包括邵琇珮比這個更嚴重，你們的檢察官直接問她，你覺得用廉政署那一套就可以糊弄過去嗎？你可以糊弄過去，那你給我試看看，這是不是不正訊問？"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員，邵琇珮這個當事人之間或證人之間有沒有這些問題，現在法院在審理中，我覺得我們任何人都不應該干涉法院的審判，包括你我都……"],["張委員啓楷：邵琇珮在庭上都有證詞了。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這樣的話……"],["張委員啓楷：所以柯文哲明確說把這個光碟呈現給大家看，結果你們北檢的檢察官阻擋光碟公開，你是作賊心虛嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員，你講的這些你在法庭上要跟法官主張，因為這個法院在審理中，我們不適合在這裡談論現在審理中的案子。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，你們如果沒有不正訊問，沒有作賊心虛，為什麼連光碟都不可以勘驗呢？"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒有什麼心虛，哪有什麼心虛？"],["張委員啓楷：為什麼都不能公開呢？你嚴重違反這個倫理規範不是嗎？現在不是個案，你身為一個大家長，你的檢察官辦案辦成這樣子，全國都有質疑的時候，你不去導正，還在那邊強辯！"],["鄭部長銘謙：我沒有強辯喔！現在案件在法院的審理中，我們尊重法院的獨立審判，任何人都……"],["張委員啓楷：反正這些光碟陸陸續續都會出來，會有真相的，人民也會看法務部為什麼要掩蓋那麼多的事實！","請王副秘。"],["王副秘書長增華：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：你在監察院應該很久了，對不對？"],["王副秘書長增華：是，我在監察院快40年。"],["張委員啓楷：你有發現最近監察院的工作量打折又打折，結果薪水一直在往上走嗎？我統計了一下，你第五屆應該已經在監察院了，對不對？"],["王副秘書長增華：在監察院。"],["張委員啓楷：你們在第五屆開的院會有37次，平均開會時間是75.97分鐘，結果到了第六屆、到了你們這一屆新的監察院是打對折欸！同樣是開院會，砍了一半的時間，剩下多少？33.67分鐘！更過分的是，陳菊院長生病以後又打對折，我去看你們最近這5次開會的時間，真的是！你們這一屆不足10分鐘的會議有10次，陳菊院長請假之後有開4分鐘的會議，也有開6分鐘的會議，照這個院會去比較，你們的薪水是不是應該打折再打折，只能領四分之一？你們這樣怎麼對得起人民？爾俸爾祿、民脂民膏！"],["王副秘書長增華：跟委員說明一下，有關於監察職權是不是比第5屆有行使減少的狀況，其實我們有統計，不管是人民書狀的收受或者是彈劾人數，或者是糾舉，或者是糾正，甚至質問等等，或者中央巡察、地方巡察，我們所有的職權行使跟第5屆同期比較起來，並沒有比較……"],["張委員啓楷：我給你同樣的標準，同樣院會不只是萎縮，萎縮到以前的四分之一，特別是陳菊陳院長，你們是自廢武功嗎？你們怎麼對得起你們領的薪水？一個監察院的監察委員一個月領多少錢？比照部會首長，這樣怎麼對得起民眾呢？你們要承諾下次院會好好開，至少回到第6屆或第5屆的一開始。我去看你們的議程，連案子都沒列有什麼共識，連案子都沒列怎麼對得起民眾？然後你們是怎麼花錢的，你們竟然編列出國預算是去北海道看黑熊，這種錢當然要砍啊！不砍對得起民眾嗎？所以監察院為什麼要廢除？一個是功能不彰，浪費人民的民脂民膏，你們今年編列的預算是10億9,000萬，刪減完之後還有八億多，你們用的每一分錢都是人民辛辛苦苦的納稅錢，監察院一年花人民納稅錢8億都是這樣開會的，浪費民脂民膏的同時，更嚴重的是什麼？變成一個酬庸養老院，功能還不彰，甚至變成民進黨的打手。","我給你看幾個案子，不只是大家一直在討論的，你們用公務車送自己的愛犬去美容，時間趕快，不能再拖了，你們說要立即調查，立即調查一個多月快兩個月了，這樣怎麼對得起人民？不是只有你們的秘書長李俊俋下臺的問題，還有3個人送紀律委員會要趕快開會，你們是跟時間在賽跑的，你們的立即怎麼會變成一個多月、兩個多月還在立即？更嚴重的來了，你看看你們的案子，你們這樣對得起人民嗎？是變成民進黨的打手嗎？陳宗彥案，臺南地檢署還起訴他，他接受喝花酒的招待，業者也承認了，相關人員全部都承認了，只有陳宗彥一個人到後來沒有彈劾成，還是11比2，你們怎麼對得起人民呢？這是當初設立監察院的目的嗎？你們不只沒有好好去辦這個犯罪，還變成貪腐的共犯集團。超思雞蛋案，110年9月份就已經到你們那邊去檢舉了，已經快三年了，你們辦到哪裡去了？李俊俋秘書長站在你這樣的位置，他說等北檢，一定會彈劾，等北檢調查完，那我問這個還算不算數？"],["王副秘書長增華：報告委員，陳宗彥案件我剛剛有說明過了，有關於超思的部分，其實已經有提出調查報告，而且有糾正，也有彈劾，而且把相關的事證資料非常完整的移到檢察署去偵辦。"],["張委員啓楷：你們那個調查最重要的兩個人高高舉起、輕輕放下，真正的決策者是誰？那時候的農業部長陳吉仲約了以後就放回去了，對不對？林聰賢、中央畜產會，你們有查嗎？你們碰到民進黨的高官就轉彎，所以人家才說你們是打蒼蠅，蚊子院、蒼蠅院啊！碰到民進黨就轉彎，雙標院啊！怎麼對得起人民？現在更嚴重的是超思雞蛋，你看該辦的人還沒有辦；第二個，時間已經拖這麼久，雖然糾正報告有提了某部分，但是關鍵的人、最重要的兩個人沒有好好辦嘛！現在我問了李俊俋，他說一定會彈劾嘛？"],["王副秘書長增華：有，有彈劾。"],["張委員啓楷：沒有彈劾啊！現在你只停在糾正啊！"],["王副秘書長增華：有糾正，有彈劾。"],["張委員啓楷：你們現在彈劾了誰？"],["王副秘書長增華：我們已經彈劾張經緯。"],["張委員啓楷：只有一個嘛，對不對？你本來調查的，還有其他的官員呢？"],["王副秘書長增華：跟委員說明，監察院在處理彈劾案件、糾舉案件，是有相關的事證具備了以後才會對人究責。"],["張委員啓楷：對嘛！所以你們的秘書長答應我會儘快去辦這個案子、要彈劾，結果你現在只辦了一個人。第二個，為什麼要把法務部長找上來？部長，一個超思雞蛋拖了三個月，你們現在全部在辦柯文哲、在辦國民黨什麼幽靈連署，是吧？一個超思雞蛋，你們把相關人員約去，你們現在停……"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，這是由臺北地院偵辦中，也搜索了，也扣案了，也約談了。這部分我們也尊重北檢的偵查計畫，因為我對個案也不會去……"],["張委員啓楷：部長，你知道從上次的約談到現在停多久了？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們尊重北檢的偵查計畫，因為我覺得……"],["張委員啓楷：你按那個暫停鍵，按了多久了？"],["鄭部長銘謙：不能這樣講，我覺得要給檢察官……"],["張委員啓楷：你們現在是所有的人力都在辦柯文哲、都在辦國民黨的幽靈連署喔？"],["鄭部長銘謙：很好的一個辦案空間，尤其是委員不要干涉……"],["張委員啓楷：詐騙案那麼多，不好好辦，然後一個超思雞蛋，欸！人民的納稅錢浪費了五億多……"],["鄭部長銘謙：任何人不要干涉檢察官或法官辦案啦！"],["張委員啓楷：停太久了吧！怎麼對得起人民？而且你們的辦案是怎麼樣？剛才講的陳吉仲跟林聰賢被約談以後，人就請回了欸！所有臺灣的民眾都看得清清楚楚，第一個，浪費人民那麼多錢，超過5億欸！5億3,000萬欸！第二個，真的決策者都沒事，你們這樣辦案怎麼對得起人民？時間拖太長，該辦的人不辦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：檢察官依照他們的正常計畫在辦案嘛！如果在辦的話，有搜索、有扣押，扣了六千九百多萬，也扣啦！"],["張委員啓楷：五億三千多萬，你扣了六千多萬？而且現在把責任全部都推給業者，說什麼官員被騙。沒關係，這個案子，第一個，我看你還要再拖多久；第二個，辦出來，現在人民眼睛是雪亮的啦！看法務部怎麼辦、看監察院怎麼辦這個案子啦！我們再看……"],["鄭部長銘謙：法務部不會辦案，因為這個案件是北檢在辦，我覺得要尊重北檢獨立的偵查權，我要給他們好的、不要受到任何干涉的辦案空間，包括偵查……"],["張委員啓楷：對啊！你們北檢辦案是有興趣、正在辦的柯文哲案，好像就雷厲風行……"],["鄭部長銘謙：反而去干涉法院怎麼辦案，我想這樣會有妨害司法公正的問題嘛！委員，你也是很關心司法公正……"],["張委員啓楷：如果他不想辦的，該約的關鍵人也不好好辦，然後時間一直再拖！這個人民會判斷的，到底有沒有雙標，人民很清楚。"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒有雙標啦！這本來就是……"],["張委員啓楷：另外還有一個案子，我特別提醒。監察院副秘，去年核三廠1號機停了之後，台電竟然又繼續讓麥寮燃煤延役，一堆雲林、嘉義跟彰化的民眾，還有一些民團、環保團體都上來抗議，我還陪著他們去你們那裡陳情，這個案子要辦喔！你不能再拖了。已經多久了？"],["王副秘書長增華：報告委員，我們已經提出調查意見，上個月已經有提出……"],["張委員啓楷：有沒有去追責任？有沒有繼續再燒呢？你們的意見是怎麼樣？「未妥」，然後呢？「未妥」然後繼續燒、繼續傷害我們人民的健康？火力全開，用燒煤的方式，雲林人怎麼這麼倒楣？嘉義跟彰化人怎麼這麼倒楣？肺腺癌一直往上走，那設監察院幹什麼？我一開始講設監察院職司風紀欸！結果你現在已經有幾個問題，第一個，浪費民脂民膏，同時功能不彰；第二個，變成養老院；更嚴重的現在變成該辦的案子，到你那邊都石沉大海或者沒有處理，你不只沒有職司風紀、發揮該有的糾正或彈劾的權力，一直怠忽職守、沒有發揮權力，還變成貪腐的溫床欸！你這樣不是變成共犯嗎？所以當然要刪掉啊！廢除監察院，我相信你現在去做一個投票，全民大概八成以上都要廢監察院。","在廢之前，這是肺腑之言，副秘，你說你在監察院待那麼久了，監察院以前曾經高風亮節過，在76年開始我跑監察院新聞的時候，監察院多被人家尊敬啊！雷震案一個案子，我跟你說每次院會，那個時候都是各報的頭版頭欸！記者在那邊守著，可能一、兩個月前就開始在追那個新聞，你們提出來的糾正案或者彈劾案，全民都是矚目的，對社會是正面的，但搞到現在變成一個蚊子院，還變成貪腐的溫床，怎麼可以這樣？去把以前的理想跟改革找回來，好不好？廢除之前，趕快重振監察院的雄風，好不好？"],["王副秘書長增華：好，謝謝。"],["張委員啓楷：加油，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。下一位請黃珊珊委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":354,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-20","speakers":["吳宗憲","王鴻薇","黃國昌","王義川","陳培瑜","沈發惠","莊瑞雄","羅智強","吳思瑤","劉書彬","林國成","麥玉珍","陳昭姿","張啓楷","黃珊珊","蔡易餘","翁曉玲","林倩綺","徐巧芯"],"page_start":267,"meetingDate":["2025-06-16"],"gazette_id":"1146101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146101_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請法務部部長、法務部矯正署署長、法務部廉政署率所屬相關單位列席就「鑑於近來矯正\n監所暴力衝突事件頻傳，如何維護『矯正是刑事司法最後一道防線』及相關獄政策進作為，包括\n提升戒護人力資源」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續併案審查（一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具\n「監察院組織法第三條之一及第三條之二條文修正草案」案、（二）委員王鴻薇等17人擬具「監\n察院組織法第三條之一條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員徐巧芯等22人擬具「監察院國家人權委\n員會組織法第三條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1146101_00006"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}