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你還要那個我私底下都一直在鼓勵你你就做你的數位方向有些計畫"},{"start":121.383,"end":149.354,"text":"我想蘇珊瑚最明顯蘇珊瑚的很多推動AI的計畫就被Cancel因為經費不是被動是被刪所以這個工作當然就是說所以你要問我這個話言而講起來我給自己就是70分啦但因為有些工作原來想做沒辦法做所以我會覺得很可惜好啦你自己打70分嘛因為經費的關係70分雖然及格啦但是你的做人處事是70分以上啦"},{"start":151.215,"end":178.715,"text":"對於業務的推展我認為只有60分啦只有60分雖及格但是還要努力啦因為AI未來的問題啊不是我們想像中一直在講什麼這個預算預算的問題該動的就動啦該刪的就刪啦你們不是說要補那個追加預算那追加預算反對當然沒有意見只要有理由"},{"start":179.575,"end":198.29,"text":"只要是方向正確的基本上都會支持啊尤其我個人本身就非常支持啊甚至於我自己都還排你們那個解凍案啊所以我是覺得這樣啦未來AI的方向是國際歧視所以是有競爭力的"},{"start":199.611,"end":226.883,"text":"是有競爭做比較的所以在這個部分我還是要勉勵部長當然有些是政策的問題你有自然生但是AI的問題其實是沒有政策的問題就只有勇往直前所以我就跟你說你做人70分我承認但是業務是只有60分還要有待加強來"},{"start":229.734,"end":237.812,"text":"來 部長 我們最近啊這個 當然啦 這個打詐的問題不能全部怪你們啦"},{"start":238.752,"end":264.048,"text":"但是AI整個數位的設計你非得不能推卸責任也就是最近我們有公布六大的平台六大的平台但是我就覺得很奇怪這個也就是新興一年多的他擁有350萬的"},{"start":269.226,"end":297.652,"text":"勸這個平台啊這為什麼六大平台都納管啊他有350萬啊為什麼不納管博定鬼什麼那個原來是只有六個平台沒有錯那雖然這個今年他開始開放廣告版位所以我們已經在這個就在如果說剛剛講我們有個規範是說如果符合一定規模的廣告平台我們會把它納管"},{"start":298.132,"end":325.425,"text":"那在納管之前我們是經過我們的這些跟Meta的管道看到詐騙廣告我們就要求他下架他目前都還有配合辦理但是我想剛委員建議這個這個這個這個這個平台要不要納管啊所以平台他有沒有違規是另外一回事因為他擁有350萬不能成為我們納管管理的缺口要不要納管要不要"},{"start":327.113,"end":355.494,"text":"不是檢討啦要不要啦你檢討這個有什麼好檢討民意代表都發現了你們還在檢討那這樣什麼叫做管理所以我就常講你們的業務啊我還是民力部長你的業務迅速發現到有問題當然納管就要納管那為什麼這六大平台都要納管那為什麼獨卻他不納管如果我常想政治的話那是不是民進黨開的"},{"start":357.055,"end":375.265,"text":"當然不能這樣講嘛所以我們公務機關該納管就要納管還要再考慮什麼 來署長你考慮的是什麼點 來謝謝委員關心這個議題那在規模上他的確符合但因為他過去沒有上架廣告所以還沒有在我們兩條條件之內所以你要講這樣我就要打槍你了喔我跟你講他最近喔 最近喔"},{"start":384.61,"end":400.156,"text":"違規事件貧窮喔這種東西你們就要主動納管納管不代表就要開華納管只是讓他一個警惕說我政府有在管你喔你在做商業廣告詐騙廣告的時候你要嚴謹以待"},{"start":404.358,"end":432.283,"text":"只是這樣啊我沒有逼你一定要去給他開罰而是納管只是在監督納管只是讓他知道商業行為之後也要兼顧我數位部的有關法令不是這樣嗎是是我們會依照委員的我們其實是因為今年他上架廣告已經檢討檢討當中啦只是因為還沒發布新宿納管是是是好不好沒有錯你是政務官"},{"start":433.183,"end":444.508,"text":"我希望這個部分該納管的就要納管啊大家疑似同仁啊我法令所規定的你達到一定標準當然就一定要納管啊本來就是這樣啊為什麼獨落他咧欸 人家的百合 其他這六家會說欸 他有夠爛喔他不用納管喔欸 我去做個廣告喔欸 他那邊做廣告是不開罰的啊這裡做廣告要開罰當然全部人都要去跑去那裡做廣告啊這個廣告"},{"start":462.395,"end":484.703,"text":"正常廣告我們拍手但是如果是詐騙廣告是非常嚴重的啊盡快納管 署長盡快納管 請求你們這些納管的機制盡快公告不能例外 那例外的話就是特檢好不好 來 接下來APP的問題App的問題"},{"start":488.524,"end":509.219,"text":"真的判斷準確度不足我也希望兩位署長誰主管的誰儘快去因為我們是數位部是比任何一個任何一個單位是非常更積極的去針對這些APP這個問題那另外就是人工啊"},{"start":510.721,"end":528.698,"text":"這個 打 打詐的AI啊 人工審核這個問題也要盡快 也要盡快來解決啦保證 我跟你講我給你這些意見 都已經發現問題連我們不是主管業務的我們民意代表 我們都看得出來的你們自己看不出來"},{"start":529.959,"end":559.019,"text":"編制單位這麼多不停有時候我告訴你該積極的就要積極不要在那邊打轉我跟你講AI的問題面臨小問題就沒有辦法成為成為一個大方向你小問題不解決你大方向絕對做不來的嘛好不好最後我還是要勉勵部長因為時間的關係促進資料創新利用發展條例利益良善"},{"start":559.859,"end":567.173,"text":"利益良善這OK但是不要忘了你們人力應用的問題確實在這裡"},{"start":570.802,"end":596.448,"text":"民有其表 但是內容充實 但是執行不力柏定 我提供這些 不要讓我下次再來問這些草案是剛剛公布我們有60天的這個可以討論期 是啦 是啦好 最後 我還要特別提醒部長不要忘了 媒體議價法 儘快 如果基金會有爭議"},{"start":597.901,"end":615.604,"text":"可以只通過議價法這個部分我要拜託部長未來你還是要去面對所以這些本席跟本黨非常重視這些我也希望我們大家取得一個共識像我們的電信法很好啊"},{"start":616.645,"end":633.294,"text":"三黨都有共識啊幫助打詐啊所以這個通過像昨天三獨通過這是很好啊任何一個跟AI有關的跟資訊有關的通通部長你這裡沒有辦法去逃避所以我建議"},{"start":635.288,"end":650.194,"text":"這個議價法的部分要盡快走手去規劃你們的案子你們的你們的版本這樣的話才有辦法取得一個共識所以我還是希望以上這些希望部長能夠督促能夠"},{"start":651.674,"end":680.558,"text":"盡速的把他這個出稿把他做出來這樣的話可能在整個審議上很簡單報告一下那個媒體叫我們現在是由行政院來文化部跟NCC所以我們希望有個院版這個還在討論中是啊院版盡速啦我的意思就是不管誰來主管數位部當然逃不掉嘛所以數位部啊公平會啊或等等這些所以我們就共同把它做好了好不好"},{"start":681.259,"end":681.562,"text":"好好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":158,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（9時33分）謝謝主席，請黃部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["林委員國成：還有林署長、蔡署長。"],["主席：一起請。"],["黃部長彥男：委員早。"],["林委員國成：部長早。今天排AI發展這些種種政策的議程，我們可以看得出來，當然數位部成立也不久，AI未來確實是一個國際趨勢，所以我要請教部長，你已經就任一年，對於數位部、對於整個數位發展，包括AI，你到底自己打幾分？"],["黃部長彥男：自己打幾分？"],["林委員國成：對。"],["黃部長彥男：因為我訂了幾個目標，一個就是我們的……"],["林委員國成：不是啦！目標有啦！常有在溝通，你也有報告，我說對於你這一年來當部長，當初因為期待，我一直在鼓勵你，你是產業而來的部長，所以我們當然對你有所期許啦！你自己捫心自問，對於數位部的這些業務，你認為自己打幾分？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，委員問這個問題，我講實話，事實上很多工作我想做，但因為今年預算被刪得太厲害，所以我們……"],["林委員國成：預算都已經解凍，該解凍都解凍了啊！"],["黃部長彥男：沒有、沒有，我們被刪了……"],["林委員國成：我私底下都一直在鼓勵你，你就做你的數位方向以及……"],["黃部長彥男：有些計畫，我想數產署最明顯，數產署很多推動AI的計畫就被cancel，因為經費不是被凍，是被刪，所以你要問我這個的話，嚴格講起來，我給自己70分，因為有些工作原來想做而沒辦法做，我覺得很可惜。"],["林委員國成：好啦，你自己打70分嘛……"],["黃部長彥男：對，因為經費的關係。"],["林委員國成：70分雖然及格啦，但是你的做人處事是70分以上，對於業務的推展，我認為只有60分，雖及格，但是還要努力啦，因為AI未來的問題不是我們想像中一直在講什麼預算，預算的問題該凍的就凍了、該刪的就刪了，你們不是說要追加預算，追加預算反對黨也沒有意見，只要有理由、只要是方向正確的，基本上都會支持，尤其我個人本身就非常支持啊！甚至我自己都還排你們的解凍案。所以我是覺得這樣啦，未來AI的方向是國際趨勢，所以是有競爭力的，是有競爭、做比較的，所以在這個部分我還是要勉勵部長，當然有些是政策的問題，你有志難伸，但是AI的問題其實沒有政策的問題，就只有勇往直前。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員支持。"],["林委員國成：所以我就跟你說，你做人70分我承認啦，但是業務是只有60分，還有待加強。","部長，當然打詐的問題不能全部怪你們，但是整個AI數位設計，你不能推卸責任，最近你們有公告納管六大平臺，但是我就覺得很奇怪，這個新興一年多擁有350萬用戶的脆（Threads）平臺，為什麼六大平臺都納管，而它有350萬用戶為什麼不納管？部長，為什麼？"],["黃部長彥男：原來是只有六個平臺沒有錯，Threads今年開始開放廣告版位，剛剛有提到我們有一個規範，如果符合一定規模的廣告平臺，我們會把它納管，在納管之前，我們是透過我們跟Meta的管道，看到詐騙廣告，我們就要求它下架，它目前都還有配合辦理，但是我想剛剛委員建議要納管……"],["林委員國成：好啦，這個脆平臺要不要納管啦？"],["黃部長彥男：脆平臺……"],["林委員國成：它有沒有違規是另外一回事，因為他擁有350萬用戶，不能成為我們納管管理的缺口，要不要納管？要不要？"],["林署長俊秀：我們在檢討當中。"],["林委員國成：不是檢討啦，要不要啦？這個有什麼好檢討？民意代表都發現了，你們還在檢討，這樣怎麼叫做管理？所以我就常講，你們的業務，我還是勉勵部長，你們的業務是迅速發現到有問題，當然就要納管，這六大平臺都要納管，為什麼獨脆平臺不納管？如果我用政治來想的話，這是不是民進黨開的？當然不能這樣講嘛！所以我們公務機關該納管就要納管，還要再考慮什麼？署長，你考慮的是什麼點？你告訴我。"],["林署長俊秀：謝謝委員關心這個議題，在規模上它的確符合，但因為它過去沒有上架廣告，所以還沒有在我們的兩個條件之一，它今年開始上架廣告……"],["林委員國成：你這樣講，我就要打槍你了，我跟你講，它最近違規事件頻傳，這種東西你們就要主動納管……"],["林署長俊秀：是，了解。"],["林委員國成：納管不代表就要開罰，納管只是讓它有警惕，說我政府有在管你喔，你在做商業廣告或有詐騙廣告的時候要嚴謹以待，只是這樣啊，我沒有逼你一定要去給它開罰，而是納管，只是在監督，納管只是讓它知道開放商業行為之後也要兼顧數位部的有關法令，不是這樣嗎？"],["林署長俊秀：是，我們的確是因為今年它要開始上架廣告，已經在檢討當中，只是因為還沒發布，我就……"],["林委員國成：迅速納管，好不好？"],["林署長俊秀：是。"],["林委員國成：部長，你是政務官，我希望這個部分該納管的就要納管，大家一視同仁，法令所規定的，你達到一定標準，當然就一定要納管啊，本來就是這樣啊！為什麼獨漏它呢？"],["黃部長彥男：有達到標準……"],["林委員國成：其他這六家會說它比較夠力喔，它不用被納管，人家會說我去做個廣告，它那邊做廣告是不開罰的，這裡做廣告要開罰，當然全部人都要跑去那裡做廣告，正常廣告我們拍手，但如果是詐騙廣告是非常嚴重的啊！儘快納管。"],["黃部長彥男：好，我們回去……"],["林委員國成：署長，儘快納管，你們這些納管的機制儘快公告，不能例外，例外的話就是特權，好不好？"],["林署長俊秀：好。"],["林委員國成：接下來是打詐app的問題，部長，app的判斷準確度真的不足，我也希望兩位署長，誰主管的誰儘快去處理，因為你們是數位部，是要比任何一個單位都更積極地去針對這些app的問題來處理；另外就是打詐的AI還需要人工審核的問題也要儘快解決啦，部長，我跟你說，我給你這些意見都已經發現問題，連不是主管業務的民意代表，我們都看得出來，你們自己看不出來，編制單位這麼多。部長，我跟你說，有時候該積極的就要積極，不要在那邊打轉，我跟你講，AI的問題面臨小問題不解決就沒有辦法成為一個大方向，你小問題不解決，大方向絕對做不來的嘛！好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["林委員國成：最後我還是要勉勵部長，因為時間的關係，促進資料創新利用發展條例立意良善，這OK，但是不要忘了你們人力應用的問題，確實在這裡，內容充實，但是執行不力，部長，我提供這些問題，不要讓我下次再來問這些。"],["黃部長彥男：好，草案是剛剛公布，我們有60天的討論期……"],["林委員國成：是啦。最後我還要特別提醒部長，不要忘了媒體議價法要儘快，如果基金會有爭議，可以只通過議價法這個部分，我要拜託部長，未來你還是要去面對，本席跟本黨非常重視這個部分，我也希望我們大家取得一個共識，像電信法就很好啊，三黨都有共識，幫助打詐，像昨天三讀通過，這很好啊，任何一個跟AI有關的、跟資訊有關的，部長你這裡通通沒有辦法去逃避，所以我建議媒體議價法的部分要儘快著手去規劃你們的案子、你們的版本，這樣的話才有辦法取得共識。所以以上這些，我希望部長能夠督促、能夠儘速的把初稿做出來，這樣的話可能在整個審議上……"],["黃部長彥男：很簡單報告一下，媒體議價法現在是由行政院來處理，因為相關業務是跨文化部跟NCC，所以我們希望有個院版，這個部分還在討論中。"],["林委員國成：是啦，院版儘速啦！我的意思就是不管誰來主管，數位部當然逃不掉嘛，所以數位部、公平會或等等這些部會就共同把它做好，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員。"],["林委員國成：好，謝謝。"],["主席：現在請陳素月委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":442,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-16","speakers":["許智傑","洪孟楷","李昆澤","林國成","陳素月","林俊憲","徐富癸","邱若華","蔡其昌","葛如鈞","劉書彬","黃健豪","張雅琳","翁曉玲","鍾佳濱","葉元之","魯明哲","廖先翔","游顥","王鴻薇","何欣純","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":379,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146001_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男就「推動 AI 之產業發展政策」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146001_00016"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}