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7,"text":"媽媽的看法跟企業的看法好現在育嬰留庭你們是半年是不是我要問清楚一下應該是說育嬰留庭可以兩年但是有薪資補助的是半年有薪資補助是半年六個月那你現在是六要加一個月所以是七個月就是要六加七的話要修救保法"},{"start":60.436,"end":85.811,"text":"要修法那現在是媽媽可以請6個月再來爸爸再請6個月都可以請6個月那就12個月是不是就是各自都有6個月的有薪的這個有薪孕留庭的權利好就是現在是6加6就對了啦那6加6加1加1這兩個是要修法是不是對那現在是補助"},{"start":86.946,"end":108.988,"text":"投保薪資的80%舊保是補助六成那另外兩成是公務預算所以六成加兩成加起來是八成所以他是拿到投保薪資的八成那另外兩成呢基本上我們現在是八成就給他補滿就好啦"},{"start":111.264,"end":117.327,"text":"你講到這我們又要講到預算的問題沒有啦現在真的是小孩子太少了啦那又有一個20%這個20%由企業來補你認為怎麼樣"},{"start":134.508,"end":149.594,"text":"換企業靠腰其實你也是經營企業員工非常多但是生產的不多現在真的很少我是覺得企業如果有的話"},{"start":150.954,"end":177.836,"text":"補那兩成應該還可以啦如果比較比較財務比較OK的真的我是覺得那在醫療界事實上說育嬰六個月或者所以如果是單單媽媽六個月那她延長到一年那個六個月是沒有薪水的被我們留子停薪了那是很糟糕的所以現在爸爸來請也請六個月那這個錢是哪裡來"},{"start":180.534,"end":204.43,"text":"但說六成是來自舊寶基金然後兩成的部分是來自公務預算舊寶基金所以是勞保期你會嗎你會請嗎不是舊安定基金是舊寶所以這樣一年的支出差不多多少現在剩那麼少我考考你大概107億107億"},{"start":208.391,"end":216.638,"text":"這做6加6的 爸爸媽媽都申請這樣差不多一年這樣子一年就是107那也不多啊"},{"start":220.242,"end":238.09,"text":"所以你們應該用公務預算再補兩層或者是補三層然後企業老闆補一層這樣讓他足夠我是覺得真的是這樣那個我們其實在110年的時候當時其實就是那時候是六層那希望能夠再增加就公務預算補兩層可是確實現在"},{"start":242.182,"end":255.364,"text":"我還是必須跟文坦承載目前所以說地方政府沒有出錢地方政府沒有出啦全部都是中央出我怪你在靠腰啦好 下一張"},{"start":258.577,"end":273.246,"text":"這個是育嬰設備的哺乳室是兩萬塊然後呢受僱者居家室抽菸這個是六十萬然後新建的是三百萬最高五百萬嘛你剛剛有講嘛"},{"start":278.349,"end":298.844,"text":"這個是企業如果有設拖曳的設備或者建築你補助最多是500萬是不是?是,就是新設的新設的,如果今年有一家、兩家500萬實在太少啦,講坦白話現在的建築成本太高,現在什麼都各樣上"},{"start":300.434,"end":313.221,"text":"應該說不一定是新蓋一個建築但是可能是用企業裡面的空間然後把它再去設定再去整理出一個這個所以這個我自己建議的就是說不要打死說五百萬應該是"},{"start":315.482,"end":326.893,"text":"裡面去平和,有的是自己有建築物了,只是裡面裝修嘛那另外有的是新蓋,像我們就打算新蓋,但是要蓋幾千萬我們才會錢,你補足五百萬,你也想補足一、兩千萬,我們才能蓋下去"},{"start":333.655,"end":356.564,"text":"所以上限比我高你的時報時銷因為現在的建築出品才挺高的我們現在已經從300萬拉高到500萬了可以一千兩千這樣這是什麼錢這是救保那這個侮辱是兩萬塊也太少了所以這個都要增加"},{"start":358.666,"end":386.617,"text":"我們可以來看一下哪些部分有增加的空間可是這個但是我還是要跟委員提醒因為其實長期以來因為救保基金他其實主要是在處理的問題其實是關於就業跟失業上面的議題那其實很多勞工朋友包括很多的工會勞工團體其實也一直在提醒其實處理就業失業的問題才是原本就救保基金他一開始成立的時候他的最重要的"},{"start":387.737,"end":396.548,"text":"的設定的目的還有那個育嬰是6加6我覺得不太夠應該是差不多要到18個月"},{"start":400.044,"end":418.341,"text":"我不是在開普拉普,我是在說真的因為我們自己我自己有四個小孩,我們這樣過來很辛苦這樣讓我們小孩生孫,那個更辛苦我們非常願意跟所有人一起合作我們在醫療界,看我們先來推動"},{"start":419.002,"end":438.301,"text":"那醫療的 像譬如說護理師他育嬰他育嬰假回來你說會遭遇什麼問題 我們是沒有什麼問題但是他自己本身有時候是健保本身的電腦軟體一直在更新所以回來有時候會"},{"start":440.102,"end":460.434,"text":"會要踏足了啦會感覺跟不上的感覺是有這個問題所以我們像我們在鄉下在屏東小孩子要下課如果當安親班是OK的如果沒有的話我們很多都中間請"},{"start":462.722,"end":468.545,"text":"所以說回來沒有工作什麼職場我也覺得沒有這個問題然後再來就是說什麼女性的薪水比男性低我也沒有這種感覺"},{"start":484.043,"end":508.964,"text":"只要你在獅子輩你是婦理獅就是你的價碼就你是藥師那價碼更高啦所以沒有婚男女那是在行政職方面可能會有點差啦行政職啦就目前現在數據上看起來確實男女性質上面還是有差異我們必須承認這件事情那這也是我想也是勞動部必須努力的目標好 那下一張"},{"start":513.014,"end":541.946,"text":"這個是男性比例啦現在有在增加是好事啦那屏東的話我們男性生母乳價是17%增加到20%這也是都是好事情那希望能夠更更有效啦那你剛剛講的這個一個月譬如說小孩子發燒啦什麼的幼兒園突然間說說說要不然孩子吵吵等於有人發燒啊傳病毒啊那個是用市價的喔"},{"start":544.143,"end":568.498,"text":"現在其實很多對很多老公來說他可能必須用市價或者用自己的特休來營運所以這也是為什麼他可能這種臨時性家庭照顧假或者是家庭照顧假市價或家庭照顧假市價是14天7天7天沒有薪水的7天但是7天是算在14天的市價裡面市價市價也沒薪水啊對市價也沒薪水那你們補啊"},{"start":573.231,"end":600.507,"text":"所以我們為什麼我們現在也才從這個育嬰留庭的範圍裡面去思考怎麼樣去幫助這些生小孩的勞工家庭去解決這個問題我們為什麼才從這裡面去思考的原因就是這樣因為他在如果從育嬰留庭去想的話他裡面本身就救保其實可以有六成的補助那再加兩成的這個公務預算的補助"},{"start":601.488,"end":614.747,"text":"他比較不用再要再去畫一個非常大的裁員來去補貼因為現在在整體的財政上面其實都有其實是挑戰是很大的好下一張最後一張了好"},{"start":616.734,"end":627.9,"text":"這個是我們事業單位申請補助的嘛齁我跟部長講一個那個現在澳洲啊 澳洲他們生小孩後育嬰教室多久你知道嗎三年三年是國家補助的所以三年後再生一個 又三年再三年 又生一個這樣十年 齁澳洲現在就這樣所以我"},{"start":645.031,"end":669.339,"text":"他們也是這樣幹的所以我們這邊是一直往上比不完所以我的建議因為這個錢都是中央出的錢地方政府沒有地方政府在說的是在說什麼公民都沒錢他也是老人 孩子都沒錢現在他們在說的是連高雄市也在挨台南市也在挨 是在挨什麼部長"},{"start":674.55,"end":692.407,"text":"你說地方政府來地方政府說他們要補助啊他們的錢被扣了27%嘛 對不對那是跟這個是重疊的嗎我想這個應該不是不是這個部分我們的補助是來自酒保好查清楚 好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":718,"blocks":[["蘇委員清泉：（11時33分）謝謝主席，請部長。"],["洪部長申翰：蘇委員好。"],["蘇委員清泉：部長剛剛爭辯得不錯！來，這一張是媽媽的看法跟企業的看法，現在育嬰留停是半年，是不是？我要問清楚一下。"],["洪部長申翰：應該是說育嬰留停可以兩年，但是有薪資補助的是半年。"],["蘇委員清泉：有薪資補助是半年（6個月）？"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["蘇委員清泉：你現在是6要加1個月，所以是7個月？"],["洪部長申翰：要6加7的話要修就保法。"],["蘇委員清泉：要修法，那現在是媽媽可以請6個月，再來爸爸再請6個月？"],["洪部長申翰：都可以請6個月。"],["蘇委員清泉：就12個月，是不是？"],["洪部長申翰：就是各自都有6個月有薪育嬰留停的權利。"],["蘇委員清泉：好，現在是6加6就對了啦！那6加6加1加1，這兩個是要修法，是不是？"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["蘇委員清泉：現在是補助投保薪資的80%？"],["洪部長申翰：就保是補助六成，另外兩成是公務預算，所以六成加兩成，加起來是八成。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以他是拿到投保薪資的八成？"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["蘇委員清泉：那另外兩成呢？"],["洪部長申翰：基本上我們應該是八成……"],["蘇委員清泉：就給他補滿就好啦！"],["洪部長申翰：委員，你講到這個，我們又要講到預算的問題了。"],["蘇委員清泉：又要「哭枵」了嗎？沒有啦，現在真的是小孩子太少了啦，如果20%由企業來補，你認為怎麼樣？"],["洪部長申翰：這個……"],["蘇委員清泉：換企業「哭枵」？"],["洪部長申翰：委員，其實你也是經營企業……"],["蘇委員清泉：我的員工非常多，但是生產的不多，現在真的很少，我是覺得企業如果有的話，補那兩成應該還可以啦，如果財務比較OK的。在醫療界事實上說育嬰6個月或者……所以如果是單單媽媽留停6個月但他延長到1年，那多的6個月是沒有薪水的？"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["蘇委員清泉：變成留職停薪了？"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["蘇委員清泉：那是很糟糕的耶！所以現在爸爸來請也請6個月，那這個錢是哪裡來？"],["洪部長申翰：剛剛說六成是來自就保基金，然後兩成的部分是來自公務預算。"],["蘇委員清泉：就保基金，所以是勞保局發的嗎？你們的錢喔？不是就業安定基金嘛？"],["洪部長申翰：是就保。"],["蘇委員清泉：現在生那麼少，所以這樣一年的支出差不多多少？我考考你。"],["陳司長美女：去年大概107億。"],["蘇委員清泉：就是6加6的，爸爸媽媽都申請，這樣一年……"],["陳司長美女：對，最多是6個月。"],["蘇委員清泉：一年最多就是107億？"],["陳司長美女：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：也不多啊！"],["陳司長美女：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以你們應該用公務預算再補兩成，或者是補三成，然後企業老闆補一成，讓他足額啊！我真的是覺得這樣耶！"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我們其實在110年，當時其實就是六成希望能夠再增加，就用公務預算補兩成，可是確實我還是必須跟委員坦承，在目前的財政的狀況……"],["蘇委員清泉：所以地方政府沒有出錢？"],["洪部長申翰：蛤？"],["蘇委員清泉：地方政府沒有出錢？"],["洪部長申翰：沒有出錢。"],["蘇委員清泉：沒有出，全部都是中央出，難怪你在「哭枵」啦！下一張是育嬰設備的補助，哺乳室是兩萬塊；然後受僱者居家式托育是60萬；然後新建的是300萬，最高500萬，你剛才有講了嘛！企業如果有設托嬰的設備或者建築，你補助最多是500萬，是不是？"],["洪部長申翰：是，就是新設的。"],["蘇委員清泉：新設的，今年有1、2家，但500萬實在太少啦，講坦白話，現在的建築成本太高，現在什麼都漲。"],["洪部長申翰：應該說不一定是新蓋一個建築，但是可能是用企業裡面的空間，然後把它再去整理出一個托嬰托幼中心。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以我具體建議，不要打死在500萬啦，應該是你們去評核，有的是自己有建築物了，只是裡面裝修嘛！另外有的是新蓋，像我們就打算新蓋，但是要花好幾千萬，我哪有那個錢啊？你補助500萬，你最少也要補助我1,000、2,000萬才蓋得下去啊！所以上限拉高一點，你們就實報實銷這樣，因為現在的建築成本實在太高了。"],["洪部長申翰：我們現在已經從300萬拉高到500萬了。"],["蘇委員清泉：可以1,000、2,000萬啦！這是什麼錢？"],["洪部長申翰：這是就保。"],["蘇委員清泉：OK，哺乳室兩萬塊也太少啦，所以這個都要增加啦！"],["洪部長申翰：我們可以來看一下哪些部分有增加的空間啦，可是我還是要跟委員提醒，其實長期以來就保基金主要在處理的問題是關於就業跟失業上面的議題，很多勞工朋友，包括很多的工會、勞工團體也一直在提醒，處理就業、失業的問題才是原本就保基金一開始成立的時候最重要設定的目的啦！"],["蘇委員清泉：還有育嬰6加6，我也覺得不太夠啊！應該差不多要到18個月啦！我不是在開芭樂票，我是說真的，因為我自己有四個小孩，我們這樣過來是很辛苦的，現在換我兒子，他生了孩子就更辛苦了。"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我們非常願意跟所有人一起合作，在醫療界看我們能不能先推動。"],["蘇委員清泉：在醫療界，譬如護理師育嬰假回來，你說會遭遇什麼問題？我們是沒有什麼問題，但是有時候是健保本身電腦軟體一直在更新，所以回來有時候要打資料，他自己本身會有跟不上的感覺，是有這個問題。像我們在鄉下、在屏東，小孩子下課如果到安親班是OK的，如果沒有的話，很多都是中間請半個鐘頭的假騎摩托車去載小孩，載完再回來上班的也有，我也都OK，因為缺人，我們要留人；所以說回到職場會沒有工作，我覺得沒有這個問題。再來就是女性的薪水比男性低，我也沒有這種感覺，只要是師字輩，護理師的價碼就是那樣，若是藥師，價碼更高了；所以沒有分男女，只是在行政職方面可能會有點差。"],["洪部長申翰：就目前數據上看起來，確實男女在薪資上面還是……"],["蘇委員清泉：還是有落差。"],["洪部長申翰：還是有差異，我們必須承認這件事情，我想這也是勞動部必須努力的目標。"],["蘇委員清泉：再看到下一張，這是男性的比例，現在有再增加，是好事。屏東縣府男性申請哺乳假由17%增加到20%，這都是好事情，希望能夠更有效。","你剛剛講的一個月，譬如說小孩子發燒、幼兒園突然間要求把小孩帶回去，因為有人發燒、腸病毒，那個是用事假嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：現在對很多勞工來說，他可能必須用事假或者用自己的特休來因應，所以這也是為什麼可能這種臨時性……家庭照顧假或者事假……"],["蘇委員清泉：家庭照顧假？是30天嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：事假或者家庭照顧假。"],["蘇委員清泉：有一個月？"],["洪部長申翰：事假是14天。"],["蘇委員清泉：喔，7天。7天沒有薪水的？"],["洪部長申翰：7天，但是7天是算在14天的事假裡面。"],["蘇委員清泉：事假也沒薪水啊！"],["洪部長申翰：對，事假也沒薪水。"],["蘇委員清泉：你們補啊！"],["洪部長申翰：所以，委員，為什麼我們現在從育嬰留停的範圍裡面去思考怎麼樣去幫助這些生小孩的勞工家庭解決這個問題，我們為什麼從這裡面去思考的原因就是這樣，因為如果從育嬰留停去想的話，就保可以有六成的補助，再加兩成的公務預算補助，它比較不用再劃一個非常大的財源去補貼，因為現在整體財政挑戰其實是很大的。"],["蘇委員清泉：最後一張是事業單位申請補助的，我跟部長講一個問題，現在澳洲他們生小孩之後育嬰假是多久，你知道嗎？3年！3年是國家有補助的，所以3年後再生一個又3年，再3年又生一個，這樣就10年了，澳洲現在就這樣，他們是這樣幹的，我們這邊是一直往上，比不完啦！所以我的建議，因為這個錢都是中央出的，地方政府沒有，地方政府說的是什麼？說他們都沒錢啊，他們的老人、小孩都沒錢，這是現在他們說的，連高雄市也在哀，臺南市也在哀，是在哀什麼？部長。"],["洪部長申翰：你說地方政府……"],["蘇委員清泉：地方政府說他們要補助啊，他們的錢被扣了27%，對不對？那個跟這個是重疊的嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：我想這個應該不是……"],["蘇委員清泉：不是？"],["洪部長申翰：我們這個部分的補助是來自就保。"],["蘇委員清泉：好，查清楚，謝謝。"],["主席（蘇委員清泉）：我們先處理臨時提案。","一、","案由：有鑑於我國民間的緩衝車用以支援公務業務，執行在快速道路（含國道）所遭遇的事故案件數，近年乃越漸攀升；根據高公局統計，光是國道的事故數呈現110年66件事故、111年101件事故、112年121件事故，再至去年113年則為123件，換算近3年共計345件，平均三天就要高速被撞一台，已然造成執業人員高度安全風險，且亟待勞動部改善。然而，查當前中央政府規範中，卻缺乏如對於「高空工作車使用安全管理指引」一般，有對於緩衝車之使用安全管理規範依據；放諸所見，僅有交通部公路局訂定有「快速公路施工交通管制手冊」，並要求緩衝車工作區域最長以500公尺為限制等條件，除此之外對緩衝車操作人員在職安上之要求，則形同放生。是以，考量在快速道路與國道工作環境操作緩衝車時，往往遭遇車輛噪音甚大，或是高度可能面臨車輛濺起砂石噴進眼睛，影響完整之溝通聽覺與作業視覺，進而影響正確之緩衝車操作，徒增作業者本身與車輛駕駛發生重大傷亡車禍等可能，特決議勞動部應洽商交通部限期於三個月內訂定「緩衝車使用安全管理指引」，並落實規範主/被動式對緩衝車操作人員之人身防護標準，嗣後並向本委員會提交書面報告。","提案人：陳菁徽　　蘇清泉　　陳昭姿","二、","案由：有鑑於我國勞動檢查員之人力完整，乃深繫我國各就業民眾所享勞動條件最低標準規定、勞動權益保障、職業災害受防止，以及安全與健康等落實。是以，勞動部為因應近年來勞動檢查員因薪資、升遷及職涯發展受限，因而產生離（轉）職率高且人力難有效補足，致使工作負荷量加重，陷入惡性循環，進一步更難以透過業務執行，來真正確保勞動環境完善等情形，目前已有官方提出之「勞動檢查員專業能力及工作支持提升方案」，並規劃改善。爰此，特決議勞檢員不論是「勞動條件檢查員」或「職業安全衛生檢查員」任一，皆應平等享有官方積極於加給提升和獎金給予等工作支持措施，並請勞動部限期一個月內向本委員會提交書面報告。","提案人：陳菁徽　　蘇清泉　　陳昭姿"],["主席：行政單位有沒有意見？沒有意見？好，解釋一下。"],["林署長毓堂：針對第1案，我們會跟交通部積極研擬有關於緩衝車的使用安全指引，我們也會在三個月內提交書面報告到大院委員會。","第2案的部分，目前有關檢查員的專業能力跟工作支持提升方案，委員希望這個方案擴增到勞動條件檢查員的部分，我們會一併納入考量。"],["主席：關於緩衝車，我還是一個建議，因為我們每天都來來回回，在快速道路、在高速公路看到緩衝車被人家撞的機會很大，所以緩衝車一定要再提升，就是裡面的設施要更absorbable，就是可潰縮式的，你們要裝水箱、裝什麼，我都沒意見，但就是車子撞到之後，那個開車的人不要受傷，否則人撞死就沒意思了！而且那個速度都滿快的，我常常看到緩衝車被撞，所以你要跟公務單位說緩衝車設計的可潰縮區要再拉長一點，這樣才是保護駕駛人，好不好？"],["林署長毓堂：是。"],["主席：第1案、第2案都沒有意見，就照案通過。","臨時提案全部處理完畢，接下來請林淑芬委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":516,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-17","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","涂權吉","劉建國","廖偉翔","林淑芬","王正旭","羅廷瑋","李坤城","張雅琳","張啓楷","陳瑩","楊曜","林德福","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":443,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146001_00013"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長就「營造友善職場育兒環境，落實照顧不離職政策規劃」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1146001_00017"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}