{"error":false,"id":["162625"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":162625,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162625","日期":"2025-06-18","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-3-19,26,22-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第3會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":3,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[19,26,22],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會","社會福利及衛生環境委員會","教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第3會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-06-18T11:59:53+08:00","結束時間":"2025-06-18T12:05:33+08:00","影片長度":"00:05:40","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5617cf280bc2552a6156745b9bdf51935c8a36db9e18c27ba48dd392130a67363aac5e6b56f0ec5f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉建國","委員發言時間":"11:59:53 - 12:05:33","會議時間":"2025-06-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查：\n一、行政院函請審議「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員何欣純等19人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條及第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第四條、第六條及第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法修正草案」案。\n五、本院委員羅美玲等16人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法修正草案」案。(詢答)\n（第一案如未接獲議事處來函則不予審查。））","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.06409375,"end":4.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.4478437500000005,"end":6.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.422218750000001,"end":8.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.847843750000003,"end":12.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.29909375,"end":17.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.85096875,"end":22.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.16659375,"end":28.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.39346875,"end":30.524093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.992218750000006,"end":42.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.56159375,"end":34.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.540343750000005,"end":34.557218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.336593750000006,"end":53.541593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.01409375,"end":54.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.047843750000006,"end":56.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.13596875,"end":58.502843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.84034375,"end":60.274718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.025343750000005,"end":66.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.94909375,"end":73.30221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.48846875000001,"end":69.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.46721875,"end":70.73721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.75346875000001,"end":76.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.98096875,"end":77.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.99346875,"end":80.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.79471875,"end":81.30096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.57096875,"end":82.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.53284375000001,"end":83.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.42721875000001,"end":85.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.10596875,"end":88.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.16471875,"end":93.33284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.41721875,"end":95.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.53534375000001,"end":93.56909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.60284375,"end":93.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.13409375,"end":99.00284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.40784375000001,"end":101.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.46221875,"end":103.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.30159375000001,"end":106.20846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.42784375000001,"end":107.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.60909375,"end":109.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.97159375000001,"end":114.86534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.35471875,"end":123.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.84284375000001,"end":124.28159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.58534375,"end":129.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.33971875,"end":132.58409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.19159375,"end":138.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.58721875,"end":144.09284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.21096875,"end":147.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.15971875,"end":148.21034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.86846875,"end":152.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.90159375000002,"end":159.66846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.85409375,"end":180.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.28971875000002,"end":199.59471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.96596875,"end":206.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.73284375,"end":207.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.34034375000002,"end":215.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.87909375,"end":229.73346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.18909375,"end":231.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.96096875,"end":236.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.71971875000003,"end":238.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.33971875,"end":239.75721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.02721875,"end":243.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.27971875000003,"end":244.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.54534375000003,"end":246.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.69284375,"end":247.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.41409375,"end":249.12284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.64596875,"end":251.16471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.90284375000002,"end":254.16846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.19784375,"end":255.46784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.619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好不好 主委真的啦 因為我們要面對這個事情嘛然後你看 當時為什麼會規定設定這個7,971元這是有歷史背景的嘛就是不要讓"},{"start":232.048,"end":249.992,"text":"我們要這些外國專業人才變成外國的廉價勞力嘛所以我們才去訂這樣嘛但是不可能通通不動啊桃園現在在應 桃園市政府現在在應徵清潔隊員4000多人入企435不到10%一個月薪資45000一個月薪資45000"},{"start":255.216,"end":258.779,"text":"好 那剛剛我們特別講當時這個外國禁用的專業人士最低47多對照我們當時的21多是差了2萬6現在已經拉到1.9萬"},{"start":269.943,"end":299.058,"text":"對不對 什麼時候會拉到齊平 我不曉得但是看起來從物價 從每年做這樣的調整從小一直到現在那個速度會慢慢的加快的接近中嘛對 好 所以我們盡快找勞動部來討論這個事情一個月 一個月內可不可以一個月內 沒問題因為我再提供一個訊息給你就是我們組織署已經有公布四月份台灣的平均薪資是來到四萬七千八百零七元"},{"start":301.658,"end":320.756,"text":"47807元所以這個如果再不去調整會不會導致雇主在用年選上也會壓縮到這個本國白領勞工的這樣的一個機會是有這個可能的對不對因為當時我們是不希望說他是也有雇主應用這個禁用外國的專業人士的時候是用假白領的這樣的名義來引進藍領的外國人力所以我們去設定這樣"},{"start":325.78,"end":337.347,"text":"但是時間已經這麼久了對真的有其必要調整我們盡快來解決好不好 主委所以希望一個月內把相關的一些演繹可以提供出來好的 好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝主席好"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":858,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（11時59分）謝謝主席。有請劉主委。"],["主席：請劉主委。"],["劉委員建國：主委，今天經濟委員會審查外國專業人才延攬及僱用法的修正草案，這個對目前生不如死的臺灣是非常重要。大家都很清楚，臺灣就要邁入超高齡社會，剛剛陳委員也特別提到生育的問題，你知道5月出生已經又破了最新的出生率。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["劉委員建國：你知道，你有掌握嘛！所以要吸引國外優秀的專業人才進到臺灣服務，甚至喜歡臺灣，最後定居臺灣，那是一個非常正確的政策，所以透過這樣的一個修法，我們要趕快來推動！但我現在要提出了一個疑問，就是我們是真的要招攬外國的優秀人才嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們是真的有這個打算。"],["劉委員建國：是真的，假的？一句話啦！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是真的！"],["劉委員建國：是真的，對不對？但你知道我們現在招募外國專業人才最低的薪資是多少？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：四萬七千九百多。"],["劉委員建國：就是4萬7,971元嘛！這個數字從以前定格到現在，已多久時間了？我想職場不外乎要友善，職場友善有一個重中之重，就是所謂的薪資，如果我們從頭到尾都定格在4萬7,971元現在這個階段，那麼你可以簡單的對照臺灣的基本工資，從106年的2萬1,009元，一直到現在2萬8,590元，從小英執政到賴清德政府執政已經調了九次。今天我們是真的要招募外國的專業人才來到臺灣，喜歡臺灣，甚至定居在臺灣，而他們的最低基本薪資還定格在4萬7,971元，你覺得這樣合理嗎？臺灣這樣的職場會讓外國的專業人士覺得這是可以吸引他的一個地方嗎？不管我們的自由民主制度，不管我們的居住環境，不管我們這樣的一個友善，都可以達到他們的期待；但若薪資一直維持在這個數字，你覺得吸引力足夠嗎？是真的要招募外國的專業人才來臺灣一起努力打拚嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對企業來講，其實這個數字是一個參考值啦，當然也是有調整的空間，因為我們現在經常性薪資平均已經到6萬3,000元，所以是可以調整的；只是在這個薪資裡面，他有工作零年經驗，一年經驗、兩年經驗、三年經驗等等，這個是給企業一個參考，不得低於這個數字。"],["劉委員建國：不得低於嘛！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["劉委員建國：臺灣也有最低基本工資，也是不得低於嘛！但是從小英執政一直到現在，臺灣以前被稱作低薪島，主委應該知道嘛！民進黨執政之後，前八年一直到賴清德政府執政，調了九次，才來到2萬8,590元，這個就是最低啊，這個也是讓我們臺灣所有的企業在聘用本勞的一個參考依據。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，是不是讓我們來協調勞動部，看看這個要怎麼樣來做調整。"],["劉委員建國：真的要趕快來討論，好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好的。"],["劉委員建國：因為我們要面對這個事情嘛！當時為什麼會去設定4萬7,971元，這個是有歷史背景的，就是不要讓這些外國專業人才變成外國的廉價勞力，所以我們才去訂這樣的數字，但也不能統統都不動啊！桃園市政府現在正在應徵清潔隊員，來四千多人，錄取435人，不到10%，一個月薪資四萬五，一個月薪資四萬五！剛才我特別講到外國進用專業人士最低四萬七千多元，對照當時的兩萬一千多元，相差了兩萬六，現在則已經拉近到1.9萬，對不對？什麼時候會拉到齊平？我不曉得，但是看起來，從小英總統一直到現在，每年依照物價做這樣的調整，速度會慢慢加快、持續接近中。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，所以我們會儘快找勞動部討論這件事情。"],["劉委員建國：一個月內可不可以？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好，一個月內沒問題。"],["劉委員建國：我再提供一個訊息給你啦！主計總處已經公布四月份臺灣平均薪資來到4萬7,807元，如果再不調整，會不會也導致在雇主用人選擇上壓縮到本國白領勞工的機會？對不對？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是有這個可能，所以我們會討論。"],["劉委員建國：當初是不希望雇主進用外國專業人士時透過假白領的名義引進外國藍領人力，所以這樣設定嘛！但是時間已經這麼久了，真的有必要調整，好不好，主委？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們會儘快解決。"],["劉委員建國：所以希望一個月內可以把相關研議提供出來，好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好的，沒問題。"],["劉委員建國：謝謝。謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝劉建國委員。","下一位請葉元之委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":328,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-19,26,22-1","speakers":["蔡易餘","羅美玲","邱議瑩","萬美玲","葛如鈞","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","吳沛憶","張啓楷","林宜瑾","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","陳秀寳","呂玉玲","陳菁徽","劉建國","葉元之","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳超明","黃秀芳","鄭天財Sra 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