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(第五案如未接獲議事處來函則不予審查)\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員王美惠等18人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員賴士葆等17人擬具「個人資料保護法第四十七條、第四十八條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員邱志偉等22人擬具「個人資料保護法第二十一條、第二十九條及第三十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員賴瑞隆等18人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「個人資料保護法第四十七條、第四十八條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員黃捷等17人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員許宇甄等22人擬具「個人資料保護法第六條條文修正草案」案。(詢答)\n三、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「離島建設條例第十條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員鄭天財等22人擬具「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員陳玉珍等19人擬具「離島建設條例增訂第十三條之一及第十三條之二條文草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員陳玉珍等17人擬具「離島建設條例增訂第十八條之一條文草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「離島建設條例第二條及第十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員陳瑩等18人擬具「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案」案。(詢答)）","委員名稱":"完整會議","委員發言時間":"08:30:46 - 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委員徐巧芯等人擬具《動物保護法》部分條文修正草案案。arness 委員鄭天才等人擬具《動物保護法》"},{"start":1919.997,"end":1943.612,"text":"條例第12條及第十條條文修正草案案：委員李坤誠等人擬具《動物保護法》部分條文修正草案案： 11委員廖先祥等人擬具《動物保護法》部分條文修正草案案： 12本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具《動物保護法》部分條文修正草案案。決議詢答結束。令定期繼續審查。散會宣讀完畢。"},{"start":1947.799,"end":1953.264,"text":"條例第十一條條文修正草案 案。adequate委員徐巧芯等21人擬具:「再生能源發展條例第三條條文修正草案 案。"},{"start":1973.802,"end":1999.461,"text":"條例第十九條之一及第二十一條條文修正草案案。」五、本院委員黃宏維等19人擬具:「再生能源發展條例第三條條文修正草案案。」今日尋導二、審查一、本院委員王美惠等人擬具個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案案。二、委員賴世保等人擬具個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案案。五、本院委員黃宏維等19人擬具"},{"start":1999.881,"end":2015.882,"text":"第四十七條、第四十八條及第四十九條條文修正草案案。厲 委員邱志維等人擬具《個人資料保護法》第21條、第29條及第32條條文修正草案案。厲 委員賴瑞榮等人擬具《個人資料保護法》部分條文修正草案案。"},{"start":2016.403,"end":2032.492,"text":"五本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具《個人資料保護法》第47條48條及第49條條文修正草案案六本院委員黃潔等人擬具《個人資料保護法》部分條文修正草案案七委員徐宇珍等人擬具《個人資料保護法》第六條條文修正草案案"},{"start":2033.412,"end":2056.938,"text":"今日尋答三審查一本院委員陳廷飛等人擬具里島建設條例第十條之一條文修正草案案二委員鄭天才等人擬具里島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案三委員陳玉珍等人擬具里島建設條例增定第十三條之一及第十三條之二條文草案案四委員陳玉珍等人擬具里島建設條例增定第十八條之一條文草案案"},{"start":2058.285,"end":2069.353,"text":"條例第五委員賴瑞榮等人擬具《離島建設條例第二條及第十五條之一條文修正草案案》案,六委員陳穎等人擬具《離島建設條例第三條條文修正草案案》案。本案今日詢答。"},{"start":2073.171,"end":2098.99,"text":"本院議程牌定討論三種法案分別是再生能源發展條例、個人資料保護法以及離島政策條例等部分條文修正案本院進行詢答首先介紹在場委員跟列席的機關首長我們在場的有陳玉珍委員還有徐宇珍委員然後我們在場的機關首長有經濟部常務次長連錦章"},{"start":2103.254,"end":2128.086,"text":"中國規劃師副司長許嘉琳經濟法治司副司長黃婉玉產業發展署主秘林德昇國際貿易署主秘戴婉容能源署署長游正偉"},{"start":2131.078,"end":2148.369,"text":"徐力署副署長林元鵬標準檢驗局主秘吳秋文國家發展委員會副主委彭麗佩中文規劃處副處長李佩玉經濟發展處副處長陳美菊"},{"start":2159.139,"end":2168.946,"text":"成立發展處副處長陳瓊華能力發展處副處長鄭嘉金國土區域離島發展處處長黃文彥法治協調處專門委員黃淑芳行政國家發展基金管理委員會副執行秘書施明山個人資料保護委員會籌備處主任李士德"},{"start":2191.866,"end":2220.769,"text":"副主任陳齊雲法治事務組組長林玉佳查核官號組組長張玉琳影視科技組組長林益成王業部資源永續利用師副司長王玉珍國際事務司副司長洪曉鈞"},{"start":2223.713,"end":2238.907,"text":"語譽署檢任記證游秀文動植防疫檢疫署組長林志憲民業及資源保育署檢任記證黃敬彥環境部環境保護師檢任記證呂雅文資源循環署副組長梁開忠"},{"start":2248.968,"end":2268.37,"text":"獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲"},{"start":2274.417,"end":2296.023,"text":"國際通訊傳播委員會法律事務署署長蔡志儒數位發展部數位發展業署副署長陳惠敏法治署副署長吳怡仁衛生福利部醫事師檢任計政李念慈"},{"start":2300.644,"end":2323.755,"text":"護理及健康照護師檢驗計政陳青梅社會及家庭署組長李育穎交通部行政司代理副司長盧清泉財政部國有財源署副署長王采葉公務署副署長陳世豐"},{"start":2328.165,"end":2348.536,"text":"勞動部中投規劃司副司長謝清雲勞動力發展署專門委員黃偉成大陸委員會副主委梁文傑園民會社會福利處處長羅赫祿"},{"start":2355.039,"end":2379.426,"text":"行政院主計總處、基金預算處專門委員戴群芳。我們現在依討論法案順序請提案委員說明提案意旨。在場的委員我們先請陳玉珍委員。陳玉珍委員有再生能源發展條例還有另外一個是離島介在條例就請一併說明。謝謝。"},{"start":2388.37,"end":2393.945,"text":"條例第12屆第13屆第14屆第15屆第16屆第17屆第18屆第18屆第19屆第19屆第20屆第21屆第22屆第23屆第33屆第34屆第45屆第46屆第47屆第48屆第48屆第49屆第50屆第51屆第52屆第53屆第54屆第56屆第56屆第57屆第57屆第58屆第58屆第59屆第60屆第60屆第61屆第61屆第61屆第61屆第61屆第62屆第61屆第61屆第61屆第61屆第61屆第61屆第61屆第61屆第61屆第61屆第61屆第61屆第61屆第61"},{"start":2395.319,"end":2402.365,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案案的兩個案子,那先謝謝還有謝謝我們曾政前委員,謝謝大家在今天可以讓這個在場的這麼多的官員可以了解到這個"},{"start":2421.328,"end":2424.311,"text":"條例第十一條及第十一條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":2442.35,"end":2444.231,"text":"條例第十一條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．"},{"start":2467.927,"end":2474.788,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十二條條文修正草案、第十三條條文修正草案、第十四條條文修正草案、第十五條條文修正草案、第十六條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條條文修正草案、第十八條條條文修正草案、第十八條"},{"start":2494.592,"end":2495.073,"text":"條例第十一條及第十一條條文修正草案。」案。"},{"start":2511.912,"end":2513.712,"text":"條例第十一條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查"},{"start":2535.117,"end":2554.993,"text":"需要的發展是什麼?基本地區的民意是什麼?中華民國憲法正確條例第十條第二項有規定國家應依民族意願保障援助民族之地位及政治參與並對其教育文化、交通水利、衛生醫療、經濟土地及社會福利、事業益益保障、輔助並促其發展,還要用法律另外定"},{"start":2555.533,"end":2572.432,"text":"條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十二條條文修正草案、第十三條條文修正草案、第十四條條文修正草案、第十五條條文修正草案、第十六條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正�"},{"start":2575.976,"end":2578.337,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":2596.081,"end":2599.262,"text":"條例第七條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、�"},{"start":2625.731,"end":2628.092,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":2643.217,"end":2646.239,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":2672.932,"end":2678.414,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查�"},{"start":2702.262,"end":2725.845,"text":"條例第十一條條文修正草案。」案,雖然他們不是離島地區的委員,但他們提出相關離島經濟條例修正本席都是十分的贊成,尤其我看到陳委員跟鄭天偉爭取的是在離島地區原住民的條文修正,那我們至少比照跟原住民一樣的做法。"},{"start":2726.365,"end":2740.215,"text":"民眾黨說這個設立我們金門地區希望設立醫療特區就是要引中共入關要讓門戶大開那我想民眾黨這樣說是因為他們不了解現在事實上金門地區事實上已經有開放讓"},{"start":2741.596,"end":2743.437,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審"},{"start":2759.821,"end":2767.346,"text":"條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案。」案。 所以我們提出這些條例的修正是要讓整個的這個離島地區的這個有關的相關的比如醫療的部分可以有更大的這個發展。那今天以金門地區來講因為地理位置距離台灣本島比較遠所以整個醫療網路沒有辦法完善。那我們是希望透過推動離島國際醫療特區來提升我們金門地區的醫療水準然後讓我們的產業可以帶來活水但也不會對台灣這邊的產業產生排擠效應尤其"},{"start":2789.202,"end":2789.783,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":2805.422,"end":2806.882,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":2827.188,"end":2828.409,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":2849.83,"end":2853.031,"text":"條例第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":2868.118,"end":2870.599,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":2896.277,"end":2899.165,"text":"如果我們不能算國際港區,那是賴總統說的是錯誤的喔。"},{"start":2901.263,"end":2903.743,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":2929.608,"end":2930.569,"text":"條例第十一條及第十一條條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":2950.319,"end":2952.321,"text":"條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案案案案案。"},{"start":2979.174,"end":2983.57,"text":"謝謝陳玉珍委員的提案說明我們接下來請徐宇珍委員進行提案說明"},{"start":2996.134,"end":3013.122,"text":"謝謝主席。各位委員還有各位列席的觀眾大家好。今天我所要提案這個說明的部分是指個人資料保護法第六條的條文修正因為當前我們正處於一個資訊爆炸的時代科技的進步帶給我們無限的便利但是也帶來無"},{"start":3014.182,"end":3016.163,"text":"條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":3043.129,"end":3058.842,"text":"他們利用這種通訊記錄衍生出來的資料試圖為自己的政治目的服務這種行為不但侵害了人民的隱私權更是對民主自由的赤裸裸的挑戰電信法第二條第八款雖然定義了通訊記錄的範疇但是隨著科技的進步"},{"start":3062.725,"end":3084.97,"text":"僅僅限制在發信方、收信方、通信時間等的資本資訊已經無法完全保護電信使用人的隱私手機的普及使得每個人的通信記錄成為有心人挖掘的寶庫他們可以透過這些資料拼湊出一個人的行動、足跡、生活軌跡甚至是他們的網路瀏覽習慣跟政治傾向試想一下"},{"start":3087.651,"end":3089.072,"text":"條例第十一條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案。」案。"},{"start":3108.762,"end":3132.896,"text":"個人資料保護庫法的第六條增列禁止收集、處理或利用通信記錄衍生相關資料的條文這不僅是對法律的完善更是對人民權利的捍衛我們必須明確的規定任何人不得在未經當事人同意的情況下利用電信記錄進行二次分析和利用只有這樣才能夠真正的保護"},{"start":3134.396,"end":3159.482,"text":"條例第十一條及第十一條條文修正草案。」案。 »: 我想讓我們共同努力推動這份修法,為我們的子孫建立一個更為安全更自由的社會,讓每一個公民都能夠安心的使用科技,而不必擔心被追蹤、被標籤。我們的法律應該成為人民權利的守護者,而不是讓有心人士鑽漏洞的工具。"},{"start":3160.442,"end":3164.443,"text":"條例第十一條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查"},{"start":3182,"end":3200.034,"text":"條例我今天的提案是針對這個再生能源發展條例的第三條條文修正案喔那目前在我國的再生能源發展條例裡面雖然明確定義了再生能源包含秋蓄式的水利發電但是沒有能夠比照其他的能源項目同時辦理"},{"start":3201.155,"end":3221.262,"text":"特別是裝置容量大於2萬瓦的大型水庫水力發電例如翡翠水庫、石門水庫、曾文水庫等等因為他們沒有納入這個條例的範疇就是我們這次線型條文裡面看到的是本來只有寫到小水力發電"},{"start":3222.222,"end":3240.767,"text":"條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案。」案, 且裝置容量未達兩萬瓦之發電方式。所以我們希望能夠改成非抽蓄式水力發電池,利用水道等等的抽蓄式為相關的發電方式之外,在第十一條裏面,再生能源的發電設備我們也"},{"start":3242.688,"end":3264.605,"text":"希望改成說除了直接燃燒廢棄物質發電之外,申請主管機關認定符合第四條第四項所規定辦法之發電設備。那為什麼希望這樣做呢?是因為剛剛我講的包含翡翠水庫、石門水庫、曾文水庫等等他們沒有納入條例的範疇就無法取得再生能源憑證跟探權喔。"},{"start":3265.265,"end":3267.466,"text":"條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":3281.352,"end":3284.014,"text":"條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":3304.144,"end":3322.484,"text":"他的裝置容量是7萬千瓦每年平均發電量可以達到2.2億度的電這樣的發電量對於綠能的推動貢獻應該是不可忽視的可是呢因為現行法規的限制所以翡翠水庫的電力沒有辦法納入再生能源的範疇使得他的電價漲幅從30多年的1.36元"},{"start":3325.487,"end":3327.128,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":3342.494,"end":3349.497,"text":"現在的翡翠發電廠的購電契約的現行規範裡面,台電調漲電價的時候,市府賣給台電的價格只能調整電價上漲部分的80%,也就是電價上漲一塊錢,台電跟民眾多收一塊錢電價漲幅的部分,但台電只需要付翡翠水庫的0.8塊。"},{"start":3365.862,"end":3367.803,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":3391.656,"end":3395.537,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":3409.542,"end":3433.746,"text":"將翡翠水庫的發電水力發電的納入再生能源的計價那從112年翡翠水庫發電的1億5800多萬度來說台電跟翡翠水庫發電廠買只要3億元但向外去購買水力發電的度數卻要發4.5億元完全是康了我們台北市民之慨所以雖然今天我看到這個本部意見裡面有講到說這個"},{"start":3437.248,"end":3445.577,"text":"我們已經有113年的公告修正再生能源憑證實施辦法放寬納入大型非抽搐式水利得依法申請再生能源憑證但是呢因為"},{"start":3451.644,"end":3479.178,"text":"水庫式水利多屬於98年公佈施行的案例,那所以呢他們認為說這個我們的提案雖然與目前的推動方向相符但是呢現在他們已經有政府有具體可行的執行做法因所以希望維持現行規範也符合我們的提案與本質但是我不認同這樣子的說法是因為呢如果你沒有把它寫在這個再生能源發展條例裡面"},{"start":3480.319,"end":3483.363,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":3495.939,"end":3516.581,"text":"放在實施辦法裡面不是一個好的辦法應該要直接放在再生能源發展條例裡面作為一個正式的法律規定台北市政府跟台電之間包含翡翠水庫的部分我們才有正式的法律可以依從所以我們還是堅持就是說這個"},{"start":3517.602,"end":3526.004,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案案的發展條例希望能夠納入在再生能源發展條例裏面。以上提案說明,謝謝。"},{"start":3537.537,"end":3540.119,"text":"條例第十一條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":3560.818,"end":3586.998,"text":"條例相關的修正草案來進行報告。那其實我們本部在今年的12、3號已經有針對我們再生能源發展條例已經有進行預告。那這個在應該是在12月份就會送到我們大院來審查。那我們現在以下請就我們本部修正的再生能源發展條例的內容還有大院各委員跟黨團所擬具的草案內容來做以下報告。"},{"start":3587.819,"end":3590.08,"text":"條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案、並於113年10月23日公告本次修法的內容包括下列四個重點。一、因應再生能源"},{"start":3608.251,"end":3624.74,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十二條條文修正草案、第十三條條文修正草案、第十四條條文修正草案、第十五條條文修正草案、第十六條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條條文修正草案、第十八條條條文修正草案、第十八條條條文修正草案、第十八"},{"start":3625.868,"end":3641.281,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案。」案。 另一條要強化再生能源發電設備完成事務之後的委員要求,建立發電設備的全生命週期管理機制。那這次修訂的內容明定所有全能在進入存續期間內,"},{"start":3643.523,"end":3669.88,"text":"應確認設備持續運轉發電以進一步強化屋頂空間被妥善利用。那第三個為了規範地熱導入定向井之土地使用及取得規定我們也明確規範定向井經過他人土地下方所涉及的土地使用權包含地權、土地容許使用就地用等相關規定。那第四個完備再生能源憑證及共同生壓站之授權規範"},{"start":3670.96,"end":3683.904,"text":"本部在這次修正草案納入目前由商品檢驗法所規定的再生能源憑證的實施程序,那以便使我們本部後續可就憑證的合法、查核及轉讓等相關規範能夠參照國際再生能源相關規定來辦理。"},{"start":3690.302,"end":3702.897,"text":"那再來有關大院委員陳玉珍等17人許委員巧芯等21人還有台灣民眾黨以及黃汪威等19人所修訂的相關的再生能源條例的內容"},{"start":3703.712,"end":3728.678,"text":"條例以下做一些說明。第一個內容有關水利發電納入再生能源憑證及探險交易對象。這是徐巧芯委員跟黃王威等委員所提議的。那水庫水利為非收蓄水利之一種。因此依據目前的再生能源發展條例第三條第一項第一款規定水庫式水利已屬於再生能源。那我們本部標準局為順應跟國際接軌"},{"start":3730.718,"end":3752.228,"text":"在113年9月24號也公告修正再生能源憑證實施辦法的裡面已經有把大型非抽搐式水利,也就是水庫式水利依法可以申請再生能源憑證。那委員提案內容與目前推動的方向相符,而且我們本部也有具體的推動的方向,我們建立為此現行規範,"},{"start":3753.348,"end":3764.17,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：立法院第十一條條文修正草案：立法院第十一條條文修正草案：立法院第十二條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十六條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條條條文修正草案�"},{"start":3778.769,"end":3805.986,"text":"能夠委員能夠支持我們本部所提的相關的草案規範那第三個有關針對離島地區應考量加權等購費率及提供示範獎勵補助那這是由陳玉珍委員所提議的那本部意見是說目前參佐再生能源發電設備在離島地區的設置成本以及運轉費用等相關因素已經透過現行的電能等購機制明定離島地區"},{"start":3806.966,"end":3825.693,"text":"海底電纜與台灣本島連接前,它等購費率已經有加成15%。那海底電纜跟台灣本島連接之後,它等購費率又加了4%的額外的加成費率。那另外依照離島建設條例等相關規定,在離島建設基金中也有納入推廣再生能源"},{"start":3826.393,"end":3833.48,"text":"發展的補助用途。那委員的提案內容本部已有具體而且可行的執行作法,未來也將持續檢討精進更符合委員的提案的意旨。那第四個有關再生能源發電設備應與設置前建立一個協調機制,這是台灣民眾黨"},{"start":3843.289,"end":3858.725,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案的提議,那各類本部意見,各類再生能源開發規模如果涉及向環境影響評估法相關的法令規定當然就要強化跟民眾的溝通,那另外太陽光鏈設置的特性跟土地利用息息相關,那本部"},{"start":3860.166,"end":3875.714,"text":"已經在最近多次邀請中央各部會、地方政府及光電業者共同研商目前已經有研擬修正電力登記規則未來除了既有的施工說明會之外太陽光電業者在申請電力籌設或擴建許可前也必須公開接入資訊同時在生壓站或光處所在村裡以及"},{"start":3882.796,"end":3898.719,"text":"光電模組鋪設最多的村里要進入辦理地方說明會那委員提案內容跟我們目前推動的方向相互而且本部也有具體的執行的方向所以我們建立為此現行規劃以符合委員提案的建立意志"},{"start":3899.179,"end":3924.39,"text":"那最後感謝大院各位委員對我國再生能源發展政策所提供的建議那本部為使再生能源發展條例的推動更加的完善也擬具了再生能源發展條例的部分條文修正草案並且在113年10月23號正式預告廣征各界意見本部將迅速完成再生能源發展條例部分條文修正草案的法制作業"},{"start":3924.89,"end":3929.033,"text":"條例第12屆第13期經濟委員會第13期經濟委員會第13期經濟委員會第13期經濟委員會第13期經濟委員會第13期經濟委員會第13期經濟委員會第13期經濟委員會第13期經濟委員會第13期經濟委員會第13期經濟委員會第13期經濟委員會第13期"},{"start":3949.528,"end":3951.208,"text":"條例第四條規定本條例制主管機關在中央為行政院"},{"start":3976.233,"end":3993.631,"text":"條例中涉及各部會業務職場之條文則由各中央目的事業主管機關主政並遵循行政院整體國家安全經濟及社會發展政策本會研析各條文後意見如下一"},{"start":3994.286,"end":4016.945,"text":"修正本條例第二條及第十五條之一條文離島建設條例是保障與協助卻與本島隔離無法與陸路交通連結導致運輸、舊衣、水電、民生物資運送等隨時受天候影響無法由本島經陸路及時馳援之地區"},{"start":4018.186,"end":4027.111,"text":"以維護離島地區居民權益。因此,離島建設條例實為照顧與台灣本島隔離屬於我國管轄之島嶼如金門縣、連江縣、澎湖縣、屏東縣、琉球鄉及台東縣、綠島鄉、蘭嶼鄉地區及其居民。"},{"start":4042.648,"end":4070.415,"text":"修正提案第二條所稱類離島是指高雄市旗津區。旗津區交通可及性遠高於離島地區,水電、民生物資亦不予短缺,與現行離島建設條例適用離島地區情況不同。為維護離島建設條例立法議旨,建議維持第二條原條文不令增列類離島地區以及相關補助條文。二、"},{"start":4071.323,"end":4074.329,"text":"修正本條例第十之一條文"},{"start":4075.629,"end":4093.614,"text":"在本島通行、港口及機場設置離島免稅購物商店提貨區,所以可以提高離島免稅購物商店營業額,帶動離島觀光,為可能影響一般商家的競爭力。鑒於離島建設條例立法議址,是為照顧離島地區產業發展,故應守重離島大多數在地營業人之權益,"},{"start":4105.899,"end":4131.367,"text":"本條文前會期亦有委員提案討論本修正條文。今一百一十三年七月十五日大院第十一屆第一會期第二十二次院會會議二讀維持現行條文,所以行政及立法部門與前會期已有共識。三、修正本條例第十三條條文。一、原住民"},{"start":4132.216,"end":4148.628,"text":"租委員會說明為補助因經濟困難致無法參加全民健保之原住民並維護其就醫權益該會以訂定補助原住民全民健康保險費實施要點以涵蓋經濟弱勢者建議維持現有制度辦理。"},{"start":4158.151,"end":4162.439,"text":"徵定本條例第十三條之一、十三條之二條文提升"},{"start":4163.733,"end":4165.454,"text":"條例第七條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":4193.917,"end":4213.667,"text":"上不宜再離島建設條例另行制定。五、增訂本條例第18條之一條文政府對於所有離島地區之發展均透過跨部門協力並整合公務預算及離島基金資源請力投入協助離島地區達成永續發展目標。"},{"start":4216.408,"end":4242.89,"text":"目前政府並無自由貿易示範區之相關法令僅交通部定有自由貿易港區設置管理條例為離島地區並無國際航空站或國際港口尚不適用該條例又離島建設條例對貨物與定有相關稅負減免目前相關制度已可協助離島地區發展"},{"start":4245.003,"end":4271.105,"text":"令兩岸政策屬於中央政府職權且金馬在兩岸關係居關鍵角色因需依循中央政策與兩岸條例架構下與大陸地區進行交流以及互動往來。以上報告敬請各位委員指教。謝謝。謝謝彭麗佩夫主委。我們接下來請個人資料保護委員會儲備處主任李士德主任經典報告。謝謝。"},{"start":4279.941,"end":4304.786,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位機關代表、各位女士先生。今天封邀列席貴委員會就審查在今天書面報告所列大院委員所提的七份個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案,代表本籌備處報告。以下請就個人資料保護法的修法政策及彙整各版本的一些修法重點給大家說明、檢調來報告。一、"},{"start":4307.586,"end":4315.353,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":4333.519,"end":4356.151,"text":"先修正公布了第一條之一明定個人事要保護法主管機關是個人事要保護委員會那雖然說這個部分尚未施行但是行政院已經籌設了我們個人事要保護委員會的籌備處來進行個人事要保護委員會的一個籌建的這個過程那在目前現階段這是一個任務型機關"},{"start":4357.659,"end":4378.747,"text":"那以建制未來個人事要保護法這個主管的個人事要保護法的各自會相關監管機制為最優先的任務那目前各自法適用的對象非常的廣泛公務機關目前統計大概有8000餘個非公務機關若以營利事業登記為例的話大概有165萬家"},{"start":4380.708,"end":4381.809,"text":"提出可行有效的監督權限配套的各自法修正草案。"},{"start":4401.082,"end":4404.124,"text":"條例第十一條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查："},{"start":4421.116,"end":4443.496,"text":"當由明年即將成立的個人事要各自法的主管機關各自會能名副其實地來進行全盤的修正研議向大院提出完整的各自法修正草案來根據由各自法主管機關完成重大的法制建設。那二有關於今天所提的大院委員的七份個人事要保護委員會修正草案"},{"start":4445.267,"end":4461.284,"text":"我們原則上都有在這邊有入列了一些我們的建議說明那因為今天時間所限就請各位委員參照但是大體來講的話我們建議啊既然前面已經提到各自法的主管機關是個人資料保護委員會"},{"start":4462.185,"end":4481.531,"text":"條例第七條、第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十二條條文修正草案、第十三條條文修正草案、第十四條條文修正草案、第十五條條文修正草案、第十六條條文修正草案、第十七條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案等。"},{"start":4485.643,"end":4508.83,"text":"感謝各位提案委員對於我國各自法的一個重視那這些提案都非常的良善為了讓未來擔任各自法主管機關的各自會於明年及早成立那本籌備處會緊速的來推動完成各自法權限制配套各自法修正草案以及組織法謹慎送大院審議藉此再請各位委員及黨團支持謝謝"},{"start":4511.63,"end":4516.395,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案．一、審查：一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．"},{"start":4549.512,"end":4566.079,"text":"謝謝主席,我們是請三個修法的主要行政單位做備詢。OK,請林次長,然後請我們彭副主委,然後請一下我們李主任,謝謝。"},{"start":4569.347,"end":4570.668,"text":"條例第十一條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案案 案。"},{"start":4589.71,"end":4610.956,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案、行政院必須在114年8月11日前成立各自保護委員會。所以我們籌備會大概都針對這個委員會的成立在做一些運作跟安排。那麼我們現在走到今天已經到了"},{"start":4612.048,"end":4615.451,"text":"條例第十一條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案。」案。"},{"start":4620.367,"end":4649.008,"text":"跟委員報告齁目前現在我們預計會在今年零幾前會要完成這個相關法律修正的這個預告什麼法律修正一個是我們個人資料保護法為了配合這個組織法的成立組織法就是這個各自保護委員會要成立的組織法嗎對你有組織法怎麼成立委員會是對所以你們現在在下個會期會把這樣的一個各自保護委員會的這個部分"},{"start":4649.688,"end":4658.532,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":4677.461,"end":4680.222,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":4696.289,"end":4698.091,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":4713.951,"end":4716.752,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":4744.382,"end":4769.833,"text":"雖然大法官要求8月11號以前可是這個個人資料保護委員會說真的是牽扯到我們的個資而且我們個人資料保護法我們整個大修這都牽扯到我們前面所謂的一個無法的問題這無法問題也牽扯到我們現在個資說真的現在每個人"},{"start":4771.411,"end":4772.891,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案 。"},{"start":4793.717,"end":4798.542,"text":"條例第十一條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審"},{"start":4816.479,"end":4821.421,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":4843.171,"end":4866.399,"text":"然後我們就要進行整個個人資料保護法的大修然後依照現在可能我所面臨的全部詐騙可能的手法包括數位部等等各個部會全部做一個跨部會的一些討論把我們個人資料保護法做一個最完整的"},{"start":4867.039,"end":4876.673,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案、甚至我們的處罰都要做了一個很確切的一個處理,這很重要喔!重罰啦!"},{"start":4878.692,"end":4904.831,"text":"誰洩露個資誰就重罰哪一個單位沒有辦法保護到個人資料就要重罰好不好這才能是把我們所有台灣人民的一些權利不會被騙這很重要否則怎麼會大家的資料誰都可以拿到這是很恐怖的這也會牽扯到每個人人人自為啊現在大家黨委都不敢講"},{"start":4906.425,"end":4924.981,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十二條條文修正草案、第十三條條文修正草案、第十四條條文修正草案、第十五條條文修正草案、第十六條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條文�"},{"start":4927.735,"end":4952.137,"text":"經濟部我們相關單位在公告的再生能源法的部分也都差不多那是不是我們應該要等到我們行政院版進來再去做討論我們是建議說因為我們現在已經在預告了嘛十一二三大預告我們是也是建議說是不是等到我們送到大院來在病案再來一起來討論因為我看了預告跟現在大家所提出的大概的方向"},{"start":4953.063,"end":4971.995,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案案。 »: 都差不多啦。表示大家認為現在預告的部分也是目前再生能源大家要趕快去處理的一個關鍵所以我也是建議啦不要再跌床駕屋也不要是好像一個案子這麼重要的再生能源法然後一次要討論好多個"},{"start":4974.37,"end":4998.876,"text":"這樣的一個版本我們就是立委的版本跟行政院的版本一次討論一次到位我相信這才是人民所需要的所以我還是建議說等行政院的版本進來我們再一次好好的討論一次修好不要修很多次那第三個部分就是我們的離島離島條例的部分離島條例的部分我發現似乎"},{"start":5002.813,"end":5025.128,"text":"我們有很多的所謂逾越到我們法令現在母法的部分包括兩岸人民關係條例這是很危險的這是極度危險的如果我們的離島條例我們認為保護每個人的權利都是我們必須去照顧的保護每一個縣市每一個"},{"start":5026.329,"end":5032.272,"text":"條例第七條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":5042.825,"end":5057.294,"text":"其實在委員們修法的那個條例的內容裡面其實也不只只有那個大陸人民關係條例啦因為但這個是非常高的位其實我們重要而且跟國家安全還有我們經濟社會發展有很嚴重的關聯嘿"},{"start":5058.439,"end":5061.74,"text":"徐巧芯等21人擬具:「再生能源發展條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案。」案。"},{"start":5075.785,"end":5080.687,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查"},{"start":5094.684,"end":5100.528,"text":"條例第十一條、第十二條及第十三條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":5117.622,"end":5121.146,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":5141.326,"end":5142.308,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案。」"},{"start":5152.628,"end":5172.164,"text":"跟委員報告其實現在我們在那個114年修那個醫院設置條例的時候已經把國際醫療專區的病房已經放在對已經修了嘛 對不對所以其實現在在我們的任何地方然後縣市我們如果有國際醫療專區要適用是OK的"},{"start":5174.867,"end":5181.232,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查�"},{"start":5204.464,"end":5226.07,"text":"站在陸委會的立場只要是在中華民國國境裡面他的中華民國跟對岸的所有人員的往來貨物的往來投資的行為然後以及其他相關的規定等等都要按照兩岸人民關係條例來進行"},{"start":5228.103,"end":5253.67,"text":"那現在譬如說我們現在有自由貿易港區有六個自由貿易港區但是這六個自由貿易港區的人員往來或是投資等等都還是要歸兩岸人民關係條例來管所以不管是未來離島條例如何修正如何進行發展我們都希望說他不能夠拖曳兩岸人民關係條例的管理謝謝"},{"start":5254.77,"end":5263.237,"text":"條例第13條、第14條及第18條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查："},{"start":5285.672,"end":5288.08,"text":"謝謝主席。楊卓英發言。首先要請經濟部。請連次長。"},{"start":5295.532,"end":5314.886,"text":"市長好我們還是繼續來討論中火減煤超時空的支票到底要開給誰看那卓院長在8號的時候他視察了中火他拋出了一個議題請你注意聽他說2032年檢討六部的藍煤機組的存費你很清楚"},{"start":5322.511,"end":5340.724,"text":"台中電廠在2034年要無煤供電。台電曾董事長表示可以承諾在2031年燃氣第二期的第一部機組上線之後就可以依序減煤300萬。"},{"start":5342.895,"end":5345.856,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":5370.08,"end":5373.922,"text":"王美花部長的時候爭一氣就減煤對不對市長現在因為現在整個現在台中這個東西你先針對本席沒關係我們理事來討論王美花擔任經濟部長的時候這個承諾你不用怕2031年現在目前已經已經有還是有那個燃氣機組會會有第一部燃氣機組會上線阿"},{"start":5398.769,"end":5420.802,"text":"還是有減煤啊?本席請問你當時擔任經濟部長的王美花那當時對台中人的承諾就是增一氣就減煤的承諾那同時在兩個禮拜前在這裡我問了郭部長跟問了曾董事長他們都承諾也就是第一期的兩部燃氣機組上線之後"},{"start":5423.163,"end":5425.744,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案。」"},{"start":5445.179,"end":5448.28,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":5464.907,"end":5466.829,"text":"六部的藍媒機組的存廢。換句話說跟王美花部長當時爭一氣拆媒爭一氣拆媒是跳票了這是第一個第二個也就是說我們的這個媒的一個總量"},{"start":5481.843,"end":5500.091,"text":"我們在看到如果依照卓院長所說的說法那換句話說從現在到2031年就沒有減煤的計畫所以我要問次長本期要問次長你們的減煤計畫到底是怎麼樣到底是怎麼樣請說明"},{"start":5501.892,"end":5511.74,"text":"我跟委員報告那個剛剛提到因為現在到2026年那個第一部難解期組上線這個是我們確認對這個確認就是差異部就是爭議器那差異媒爭議器差異媒這個是確認大家都承諾而且會做到我要謝謝那接下來我要請問的"},{"start":5524.102,"end":5535.173,"text":"院長突然8號宣布2031年以後才要去討論而且減300萬噸所以要請問2031年從現在到2031年有7年的時間你們的減煤計畫是什麼請做說明"},{"start":5546.887,"end":5559.071,"text":"現在到2026會拆兩部嗎?對!這是承諾的!所以我讚許王美花部長!然後再來第二期會有第二期的計畫嘛!第二期計畫就是剛才委員講的2031到2034我們會有...請針對議題提問!2031年"},{"start":5571.117,"end":5575.139,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案案案案案。"},{"start":5592.598,"end":5608.364,"text":"主席、委員、委員好那個委員剛剛的提報裡面在2025年的時候那個經濟部長王部長的時候他在承諾請針對主席抗議我已經運用了將近五分鐘的時間本席要請問的我講整個背包講得這麼清楚"},{"start":5619.588,"end":5623.61,"text":"我們台中人用費發電你們要看到我們的健康問題我們付出了那麼多沒有理由不照顧我們所以我針對卓院長8號到台電視察的時候所提出的2031年從現在到2031年我請問你們的減肥計畫是怎麼樣數字告訴我"},{"start":5644.122,"end":5668.109,"text":"現在是2024年2023年截至到目前為止現在是2024年2024年113年我們現在目前的減煤有分兩個部分一個是短期隨著空污量的環評規定裡面每天都自主性的在減煤這是一個事第二個事情就"},{"start":5669.906,"end":5673.729,"text":"台中電廠的一期計劃跟二期計劃裡面從二、三到目前為止除了短期計劃以外我們現在只要是2025年第一部燃氣機組上來就回歸到剛剛委員講的。您是副總吧。是。您是副總吧。您了解這個情況吧。次長。"},{"start":5693.139,"end":5694.862,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":5709.482,"end":5714.786,"text":"大概是1200公噸如果從2031年才要去檢討1260噸要減300減到900那我現在從現在開始到2031年的7年我台中人怎麼辦啊我要請問你的是我台中人怎麼辦所以我要你的數字我告訴你你請聽聽清楚我要你聽清楚從現在到2031年你們我們目前現在大概是1100到1200"},{"start":5739.205,"end":5748.928,"text":"條例第十一條、第十二條及第十三條條文修正草案、第十三條條文修正草案、第十四條條文修正草案、第十七條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條條文修正草案、第十八條條條文修正草案、第十八條條條文修正草案、第十八條條條文修正草案、第十八條條條文修正草案"},{"start":5761.872,"end":5779.426,"text":"我們把這個資料我們是不是會在整個把從剛才委員講的到2026到2031我們因為這個不是只有燃氣那個那個那個是天然天然還有一些其他的計畫性的減煤我們把這個所有的規劃我們送到委員辦公室"},{"start":5781.334,"end":5806.17,"text":"我希望我們社會大眾看到在立法院我們理性的在討論我們代表民眾來希望能夠聽到聲音我們不希望讓民眾恐慌但是我們要知道真實的答案因為我要告訴次長目前你們告訴我們有各種方案可是竟然會在8號的時候告訴我們"},{"start":5807.642,"end":5827.142,"text":"竟然要到2031年才要去討論從一千兩百六十萬公噸要減三百萬等於到九百萬那我現在要怎麼辦我現在告訴你你們的資訊告訴左軌是這麼的不精準我現在就已經藍美是一千一到一千二"},{"start":5828.51,"end":5853.526,"text":"他竟然很坦白的告訴我們2031年是1260換句話說,蒸汽我支持但是蒸汽你必須要減煤啊你如果蒸汽不減煤就會成立左軌所說的是越來越多是越來越多市長你懂台中人的心聲嗎?台中人這麼辛苦所以我繼續要來請問再給我兩分鐘時間謝謝"},{"start":5857.728,"end":5887.137,"text":"我要請問喔也就是你所謂的新核能市長你所謂的新核能我們的這個工業總會潘理事長跟郭部長跟你們的郭部長在交流的時候郭部長說未來呢一定會落實新核能那麼中研院的這個廖院長也說台灣沒有任何放棄乾淨能源的本錢國家能源不能排除核電對不對"},{"start":5888.203,"end":5905.06,"text":"而且之前也說不排除任何乾淨的人員你們經濟部是採開放的非常開放的態度對不對非常開放的態度各位關心核能這一塊經濟部當然是尊重各界對核能的檢討的一個立場"},{"start":5906.681,"end":5927.732,"text":"那政府對剛才陳副委員講政府對新核能的技術我們是持開放的態度開放的嘛所以我給你這個功課你要不要去討論你的環境基準法第23條要不要去修你的省主牌要不要去修非核家園這個才是真正才非常開放所以因此你非常開放你光光電"},{"start":5928.912,"end":5940.538,"text":"現在我們的國土法我要給你這個功課國土法內政部仍舊要4月份上路現在已經在執行的這些光點那麼未來他如果牽涉在農一農二的這個特農的範圍之內"},{"start":5944.58,"end":5969.757,"text":"那是不是整個取消?會不會影響到你的電力的一個增長?會不會?你們怎麼做?怎麼應對?我們那個能源土地那個用地白皮書齁我們已經送到那個內政部去了你這個內政部是什麼意思?已經申請還是維持?還是怎麼樣?我們建議說他有關光電這一塊要放到這一次修正的國土計畫裡面去要放到這一次國土計畫的?有放進去嗎?"},{"start":5972.509,"end":5974.291,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":5996.673,"end":6002.075,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查"},{"start":6018.666,"end":6042.882,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案案案。 »: 請林次長、郭專委還有我們的陸委會的副主委,謝謝。好,我先請教一下那個衛福部的郭專委,這個離島自由貿易區就是陳義正委員提案的部分,這個部分如果照他的條文通過會產生什麼影響?會跟現行的醫療法有一些判格。"},{"start":6043.561,"end":6049.263,"text":"條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查："},{"start":6070.629,"end":6097.036,"text":"那如果照這樣的做法的話會不會擔心有一國兩制的問題因為一個台灣有兩種制度因為整體而言我們要的是可以完全的管理整個醫療體制所以應該是納入到同一個所以你們其實並不贊成這樣的修法對不對我們是建議你們希望還是維持既有的這個制度吧好謝謝專委那接下來我請一下連次長次長如果照這樣的修法通過的話對經濟產業會有什麼影響"},{"start":6099.229,"end":6102.152,"text":"條例第十一條、第十二條及第十三條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查"},{"start":6119.531,"end":6136.663,"text":"同一個中華民國下面有兩條因為這個剛剛其實有提到應該是要架構在整個兩岸聯名關係條例的一個不管在台灣這個整個所有每一個限制都應該是要遵守這樣的一個基本的法規不應該有所有所差別這樣所以你們其實並不贊成單獨成立一個專區這樣的概念來處理應該是要在現在的那個"},{"start":6140.646,"end":6142.368,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":6164.063,"end":6179.729,"text":"我問次長因為這個還是真的是要謹慎去考慮因為我們面對的看這個自由貿易四萬區是要面對的是哪一些出口地所以說因為我們現在目前設立的這些自由貿都是向國際去對接的"},{"start":6181.249,"end":6195.25,"text":"他現在這樣的做法包括在中國這邊他所提出來這樣的做法其實看來是要讓你兩岸之間有一些融合的示範的發展不管是從金門而且看來是金門、廈門是他們一個主要的推動的一個區域"},{"start":6196.972,"end":6213.399,"text":"事長對這個部分會不會有所擔憂當然這個會啊 這兩岸的我們要謹慎來討論對我們的產業對我們整體上這個如果沒有做好的話對我們國內的產業是衝擊會是有衝擊的而且他透過了金門跟廈門的試點如果做完了之後那有沒有可能將來擴及到全台灣"},{"start":6214.667,"end":6217.869,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":6244.428,"end":6246.989,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":6265.898,"end":6285.095,"text":"這個部分裡面其實在境外地區台灣人民很多在境外地區都有在上一些醫學院醫學系那所以說這個部分裡面昨天部長已經明示了我們是謹守我們現在採取更謹慎的方式在處理照顧國人的安全嘛那你如果這邊又做了一個放寬的話那以後會不會那"},{"start":6285.535,"end":6298.666,"text":"更何況那個中國大陸的很多大家擔憂的更多了這恐怕會是一個更大的問題所以我想衛福部應該會站穩你們的立場啦會反對嘛好最後來邀請一下那個梁副主委好嗎副主委那個陸委會的態度呢"},{"start":6304.312,"end":6327.075,"text":"我們陸委會態度就很簡單不管是本島還是離島只要在中華民國領域內和對岸的往來就要受到兩岸條例的規範所以我們不會接受這個托役出兩岸條例規範的做法我舉例比如說自由貿易港區我們現在有六個自由貿易港區"},{"start":6327.856,"end":6353.824,"text":"但這六個自由貿易港區的關於人員流動、關於貨物流動、關於資金流動、專業證照、勞動條件等等都還是要受到兩岸人民關係條例的規範所以我不管離島建設條例它未來會怎麼修正但是它的人員、貨物、資金、證照、勞動條件等等都還是不能夠脫逸出兩岸條例"},{"start":6356.145,"end":6379.678,"text":"條例是一個比較上位的規定,他甚至考慮到很多國安的層次,所以他必須所有的都不應該超越這個層次,你超越這個層次恐怕都涉及到國家安全的問題了。是,而且從國家發展的角度來看,我們現在的經濟部或是相關單位所做的,不管什麼農業科學園區、科學園區等等這些,它實際上都是要跟國際對接了。"},{"start":6381.579,"end":6408.9,"text":"副主委那這樣子看來會不會大家擔憂?這樣的會不會是金門、廈門間用這種所謂的特區的概念來執行兩岸融合發展示範區?有沒有這樣的擔憂?我們還是堅持只要不管離島、本島會不會擔憂?主委會不會擔憂?副主委會不會擔憂?我們當然有注意到對岸的一些計畫跟方向那所以我們希望說台灣要有自己的發展方向"},{"start":6409.874,"end":6411.676,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":6429.528,"end":6433.31,"text":"條例第十一條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":6449.398,"end":6457.222,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查�"},{"start":6498.764,"end":6525.969,"text":"來請先阿蓮次長請經濟部蓮次長委員好出席今天要討論再生能源這幾天綠營的弊案引起很大討論包括賴清德總統昨天都談話說要陳啟毅進訴到案而且他要中央跟地方要檢討整個行政流程跟突厥"},{"start":6527.079,"end":6530.74,"text":"條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":6553.387,"end":6557.09,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":6585.536,"end":6609.062,"text":"銀報草果對不對他不是聯絡了金管會說要去查他有沒有草果對不對那事實上銀報跟你們也很有關係啊銀報牽扯到台灣綠能的這個弊案這個媒體有報導過好幾次民眾黨的立法委員也開過記者會了你看一下銀報從台元綠能搬走了上億元台元說會配合司法調查"},{"start":6610.54,"end":6636.62,"text":"我給你看一個圖齁我們看一下這個圖這個幣為什麼變成銀豹涉入臺元利能這個幣案一開始啊這塊土地北門暗場這個土地啊開始承租人是臺元利能結果呢到你看右邊暗場後來轉給銀豹投資公司以後銀豹已經賺了錢了齁結果後來突然又出現那個額外要支出上億元給縱橫家有限公司結果啦"},{"start":6637.946,"end":6665.509,"text":"進行縱橫家有限公司現在大家在質疑說包括人們去檢舉他是不是銀豹就是部長常常在講這個炒股的銀豹他跟縱橫家到底什麼關係縱橫家是不是他的子站公司有三個很特別的地方第一個銀豹跟縱橫家剛好設在同一個地址來歐的主席你去看兩家公司是同樣一個地址連絡人縱橫家連絡人剛好也是銀豹人員的經理"},{"start":6667.861,"end":6672.885,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":6688.39,"end":6717.611,"text":"那我今天正式的提醒這個案子要好好辦好不好?好。雲豹怎麼樣掏空了?雲豹怎麼掏空了?臺元綠能我們關注一下資產這個案子要好好辦好第二個我要給你開張照片全國綠能綠能當然我們是高雷嘛可是綠能是不是變成一個貨源會變成一個黑金碧暗的一個貨源大會你看這張圖上面的陳秦玉落跑了臺元綠能這是在2000年的時候蔡英文總統要連任的時候"},{"start":6719.487,"end":6734.757,"text":"這個後援會上面陳祺毅參加了,現在落跑了。立洋建設的谷勝輝,這就是台南的八十八槍。他從台電的不法所得,檢查官請説說什麼。從台電要取得的不法所得,九十一億。"},{"start":6735.714,"end":6740.337,"text":"對對那這個就是要不只要踩煞車這個弊案還要更清楚好不好這個案子地洋建設這個案子裡面還牽扯到"},{"start":6756.823,"end":6759.044,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":6772.912,"end":6789.743,"text":"他光是在章兵工業區那個整個專案的開發到現在案子監察已經糾正了這個案子你們也要好好查有有我們一定要叫他要把所有的股權回復到可控制的狀況在右邊你看已經點了三個人你看開洋集團的蔡中榮跟右邊跟他的弟弟"},{"start":6791.898,"end":6820.098,"text":"這個也是這次台言綠能裡面都涉案的所以剛剛我一開始講了總統不是只有喊話說叫陳起義回來要嚴辦趕快把人抓到這是一個第二個經濟部的角色你們有提到三個解決方案嘛對不對可是更重要如果是眾所矚目的案子你們要好好辦好不好好接下來我看一下我看你們提了三個改善的這個方式我覺得應該是要肯定的可是次長你有沒有看到這個三個方式裡面少了一個正本清源"},{"start":6821.53,"end":6848.977,"text":"其實這三個方法都是重要的可是更重要是什麼?就是因為裡面的利潤利益太大嘛所以要這樣本簽也就是說讓那個不法所得第一個不要那麼高第一個他應該公開透明啊你讚不讚成?讚成我讚成我讚成公開透明這個最新的你看來你看一下這個案子是昨天最新的大家看倒數地方你看業者一口氣可以賺走台電多少錢?長達20年的再生能源的電費"},{"start":6850.612,"end":6876.793,"text":"四億四千多萬。你看,一個是中華、一個是中華、竹塘、一個是婚禮的二輪。那裡面出現了什麼?就是為什麼利潤會這麼大?我今天提一個非常具體的建議喔,這邊。利潤這麼大一個很重要的源頭就是賺過電價,太高了。對不對?你看一下,我整理資料給你看。"},{"start":6877.608,"end":6903.004,"text":"各國一開始都會在電價方面又會用頓過的方式可是後來慢慢就一定會退場嘛你現在的這個風電就是這樣子已經退場對不對變成競標嘛那太陽能已經發生這麼多問題了欸檢察官現在起訴的案子光是太陽能的喔至少有50件了五十件那為什麼就裡面那個利潤太高而且因為頓過這個電價到目前造成了一個很大的問題那看一下齁來"},{"start":6905.222,"end":6915.533,"text":"市長你看,上一張你看一下,你看一下德國的狀況德國是在2000年實施再生能源法他一開始跟我們台灣一樣喔也是採取短過電價,對不對?這邊13米嘛那給比較高的這個價格,比較好的這個價格嘛"},{"start":6918.581,"end":6936.379,"text":"那麽現在他當初裝的跟我們一樣啊那我們現在是產生了弊案你看人家後來德國市長成熟以後2017年他是修訂了11G2017就引入變成是競標了就是頓過店家是要退場的然後讓這個競標的機制進來來來次定你注意看沒關係沒關係你看日本日本是在2012年導入頓過這個制度"},{"start":6942.685,"end":6953.523,"text":"然後後來推動光電發展以後技術成熟以後日本為了降低成本他就開始從2017年引進禁標的旗幟本期今天為什麼要提出這個質詢"},{"start":6955.049,"end":6956.37,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案 。"},{"start":6979.967,"end":7005.62,"text":"至少有三個好處他若退場的話避免過高的利益導致綠電蟑螂橫行必斷重生這是第一個好處第二個會落實你剛剛三個方案裡面真正的公開透明公平競爭第三個台電欠錢欠價嘛虧損累累以後公開競標完之後他的價格就會降下來合理的價格所以他至少有三個好處那我現在具體的要求第一"},{"start":7006.994,"end":7022.732,"text":"一個禮拜內一個禮拜內你評估請經濟部評估什麼時候讓等過機制可以退場跟德國跟日本一樣轉變成是競標的機制你給我一個很具體的評估報告好不好現在光電沒有等過啦"},{"start":7023.952,"end":7026.373,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":7051.172,"end":7070.378,"text":"提出你們的修正版本好來最後再看一下最後你這三個點裡面齁我肯定你們之前總統提過之後還有卓議院長說你要提出個解決方案你們提了三個點嘛可是一定要落實好不好我是嘉義人來我們看下一張嘉義人請給咱們發聲一下大寶這張這聽起來很傷心嘛對不對民眾那種無辜他已經跟街信政府已經存傾了齁"},{"start":7079.165,"end":7108.074,"text":"結果你看宮殿那一則在沒有跟村民取得共識之下你就開始去施工啊你看自己人多可憐委員這個案現在我自己會跟政府說這個案如果沒有跟地方居民溝通現在都已經是騙人在那邊沒有在動工一定要跟居民溝通而且居民的時候才可以再動工這個案我們有在追蹤對喔我們有在追蹤那個怪手司機給我們講你不讓開我就把你連死太可憐了吧這會不會太殘忍啊對啊"},{"start":7109.261,"end":7111.002,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":7122.408,"end":7137.804,"text":"最後這五點我就不要再練了這五點都是整個很重要的改革的一個方案包括你怎麼確保一個協調機制要有效性這一共五個訴求你給我一個宿命就好了回去檢討大概兩個禮拜內給我好不好那你借我們三個禮拜好不好?給我們三個禮拜一個禮拜"},{"start":7139.506,"end":7143.687,"text":"條例第十一條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":7165.731,"end":7169.172,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":7187.619,"end":7200.806,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十二條條文修正草案、第十三條條文修正草案、第十三條條文修正草案、第十四條條文修正草案、第十七條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文"},{"start":7208.49,"end":7211.112,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":7235.889,"end":7249.618,"text":"條例第12個閉案也會減少。好不好?三個禮拜給我方案。好,謝謝。謝謝張經理和委員。我們請進一步三個禮拜內給那個張經理和委員辦公室清楚的一個報告資料。我們接下來請鄭天才委員。好,主席、會委員。有請那個"},{"start":7266.974,"end":7280.919,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查�"},{"start":7296.616,"end":7323.153,"text":"然後也修了這個個人資料保護法要明定要成立這個委員會對不對所以你們就先成立了籌備處是你們議定期程什麼時候要成立這個委員會給我們報告齁就是配套的修法跟組織法明年的就是上半年會期會送進來好"},{"start":7325.782,"end":7348.435,"text":"那這個部分,事實上如果按照宪判制第13號,這裡面提到這個主文,這是主文,主文然後這個,主文裡面,好當然裡面提到,好"},{"start":7352.793,"end":7380.753,"text":"你們提到說這個要擬定各自會的組織法嘛對不對是如果我們按照這個憲判制第13號的話其實他沒有說一定要成立機關啦他只有說國家亦有亦有以法律積極建制適當之組織啦組織所以你們現在把它成立委員會其實書發布已經布了"},{"start":7382.5,"end":7389.205,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":7392.81,"end":7410.463,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案、第九條及第十三條條文修正草案、第十三條條文修正草案、第十三條條文修正草案、第十三條條文修正草案、第十三條條文修正草案、第十三條條文修正草案、第十三條條文修正草案、第十三條條文修正草案、第十三條條文"},{"start":7416.377,"end":7420.041,"text":"條例第十一條、第十二條及第十三條條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":7432.398,"end":7440.665,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":7459.132,"end":7487.298,"text":"應該是要朝這個方向去努力。我特別提到這個也要讓國發會的副主委還有經濟部次長你們要回去跟你們的分別跟你們的首長也就是主委跟這個部長因為他們尤其是企業界來的對不對企業界來的"},{"start":7488.629,"end":7510.156,"text":"你們要做一個很詳細的分析因為這個我們經濟部常務次長你是常務事務官出身的對不對副主委你是事務官還是政務官不管是政務還是常務我們要就這幾年"},{"start":7517.759,"end":7524.222,"text":"條例第十一條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":7547.932,"end":7549.413,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案。」案。"},{"start":7564.775,"end":7588.432,"text":"台灣沒有生產能源需仰賴進口如果要防止地球暖化趨勢以及確保台灣的能源安全更應該考慮的是能源成本能源成本不應讓民眾無法負擔如果不放棄核二核三廠可以相對降低通膨這個跟經濟的發展都有關係"},{"start":7592.148,"end":7602.492,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":7620.782,"end":7647.154,"text":"你對這樣的一個有什麼看法?針對那個童董事長這個他的意見我們當然是尊重啦因為每個人都有發表意見的那個但是如果是針對目前的一個核能電廠要嚴厲或是說再持續下去我們基本上還是要在一個是安全再來何非要可以處理要全民公司的條件下那至於對這些新核能的這樣的一個意見我們現在整個"},{"start":7650.034,"end":7666.284,"text":"政府是對新核能的技術持一個開放態度是可以來討論的。好,這樣了,因為時間也不多了。我們看一下,核四,核四花了多少錢?應該是3800多億。"},{"start":7670.626,"end":7677.45,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":7700.017,"end":7725.339,"text":"四千多億那個也是三千多億加上力能再生能源經濟部你們花了多少錢再生能源還沒有算你們要算你回去算再打付給我你們去算到底補助了多少、編列了多少錢"},{"start":7726.667,"end":7730.59,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":7760.851,"end":7775.006,"text":"所以這個部分就必須要去思考到底應該要怎麼樣要給你們的主委、給你們的部長做一個非常審慎的一個考量好不好好謝謝謝謝謝謝鄭天才委員"},{"start":7782.56,"end":7801.505,"text":"呃我們在等一下在那個邱志偉委員之後休息五分鐘現在是要呃陳玉珍委員跟陳昌明委員調換是不是OKOK那我們接下來請陳玉珍委員"},{"start":7811.787,"end":7819.152,"text":"謝謝主席我們請這個衛福部陸委會時間限時衛福部陸委會喔等一下交通部國發會請主動上來請陸委會衛福部然後衛福部還有國發會國發會跟交通部等一下一起上來交通部謝謝因為今天本席所提的有關這個國際醫療特區我先請教陸委會"},{"start":7837.957,"end":7862.257,"text":"這個衛部你們覺得開放大陸人士到金門來看診是不是會讓臺澎金馬本戶大開?衛部怎麼看?衛部先來好了那個只要是那個來臺灣就醫的需求我們都是都是支持的嘛吼現在事實上是不是已經有大陸人士來臺灣看診了?就是在臺灣奔腦也有吧?那陸委會你回答"},{"start":7865.575,"end":7886.985,"text":"大陸人士到金門的醫院看診現在本來就有本來就是開放的嘛所以本來就有嘛現在就是已經有小三通可以到金門來看診嘛這個是現行政策沒錯吧所以開放大陸人士到金門看診現在有讓我們整個台灣島門戶大開已經讓那個人士大陸人士大舉進攻嗎變成那個木馬屠城了嗎現在發生了嗎現在有木馬屠城了嗎"},{"start":7889.466,"end":7893.808,"text":"條例第十一條、第十二條及第十三條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":7905.672,"end":7908.654,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案．一、審查：一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、"},{"start":7923.485,"end":7936.895,"text":"事會讓台澎金馬門戶大開。」然後還因此封了本人叫陳山貴說你要讓大多人士來金門看診讓金馬門戶大開所以我們現在已經相關部會已經直接打臉了好謝謝兩位接著我們請交通部跟國發會"},{"start":7941.232,"end":7955.378,"text":"來江部聽一下這國會昨天就知道題目了這個江部那個行政司嘛代司長好賴總統有說你看這句是不是賴總統說的中華民國與中華人民共和國互不隸屬有沒有這句話賴總統有沒有這樣說"},{"start":7959.017,"end":7970.934,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：立法院第12屆第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次"},{"start":7977.658,"end":7994.294,"text":"總統沒有這樣說,中華民國的中華聯盟共和國不隸屬。你不知道,國會會,總統沒有這樣說。你也不敢說,你政務官也不敢說,事務官也不敢說。那些總統說話你們都不專心聽喔。中華民國的中華聯盟,我們是要問你贊不贊成,我是說總統沒有說過這句話。我只是想這個事實有沒有發生過。總統沒有說過這句話啦。"},{"start":8001.357,"end":8003.839,"text":"條例第十一條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":8010.526,"end":8016.027,"text":"條例第十一條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":8034.682,"end":8057.414,"text":"跟委員報告齁目前金門港它是國內三港那金門是國內港那金門跟大陸大陸跟中國大陸往來啊那這樣算是國際之間往來還是國內之間的往來你說一下交通部行政司法金門跟大陸現在廈門港有在往來了金門水頭港跟廈門港往來這個兩地這個之間往來是國際港還是國內港是國際之間往來還是國內之間往來金門跟廈門往來是國內的往來嗎你說你是國內港啊"},{"start":8063.274,"end":8065.858,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、"},{"start":8079.375,"end":8082.316,"text":"條例第十一條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":8104.304,"end":8107.606,"text":"條例第十一條及第十一條條文修正草案案 。"},{"start":8118.888,"end":8144.525,"text":"江埔你回去研究一下這題很難嗎那因為有這樣的通行辦法其實我們有相關的你告訴我是哪個港因為為什麼我要問這一題這麼重要我不是在考你政治題因為這關係經濟民生因為我今天修說要做這個離島經濟條例自由貿易港區交通部公務署財政部公務署公務署在嗎公務署上來的時候對不起主席再一分鐘就要了公務署快一點啦"},{"start":8145.866,"end":8165.602,"text":"這個根據自由貿易港區的規定喔為什麼要修理到經濟條例大家一定要理解根據自由因為我們基本想做自由貿易港區那現在台北高雄什麼等等地方都有做自由貿易港區因為他們是屬於國際港國務署你是不是告訴我金門港因為不是國際港所以所以不能做自由貿易港區對吧因為自由貿易港區要國際港對吧"},{"start":8169.989,"end":8176.173,"text":"自由貿易港區撤款條例是要在國際的通商口岸。對,要在國際的通商口岸嘛。那金門是不是呢?"},{"start":8177.233,"end":8179.135,"text":"條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案案案案案案"},{"start":8201.255,"end":8204.236,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":8229.667,"end":8256.298,"text":"來好最後一題啦對不起主席就是這一題啦就請問那個江部你跟我回答這個怎麼回答好啦我請江部回答就好了不然你幫我回答看戴總統說你支持不支持來這個跟委員報告其實我們在金門港部最近這五年會投了五十億你不要告訴我投資你告訴我我們要政策所以如果我們這樣子我們要申請你會自由賣港區江部你支持不支持"},{"start":8257.833,"end":8260.675,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":8285.726,"end":8295.724,"text":"條例第12屆第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全体委員會第13次全体委員會第13次全体委員會第13次全体委員會第13次全体委員會第13次全体委員會第13次全体委員會第13次全体委員會第13次全体委員會第13次全体委員會第13次全体委員會第13次全体委員會第13次全体委員會第13次全体委員會第13次全体委員會第13次全体委員會第13"},{"start":8309.065,"end":8336.898,"text":"主席您好我請連次長、經濟委員次長還有陸委會梁副主委梁副主委委員好哇剛剛上一位委員講得慷慨激昂我個人認為是這樣子國員自定法院當然是以國家利益為優先對不對以台灣優先"},{"start":8338.953,"end":8352.506,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查�"},{"start":8362.631,"end":8388.328,"text":"所以國會議員在國會裏面致電法令我想全國民眾要看對這法定下來對國家是長治久安是佛國利民還是破國殃民還是造成國安的破口國安的危機我想大家都可以討論來我們看離島競爭條例第十八條之一川普重新上台美中競爭態勢非常明顯貿易"},{"start":8393.694,"end":8418.821,"text":"這個國防甚至人才各方面的競爭這個非常的明確這個架構我想台灣跟美國利益是一致全國反中全球反中聯盟台灣是其中一個重要的關鍵如果按照第十十八條之一如果按照十八條之一這個修正草案通過的話"},{"start":8420.768,"end":8425.251,"text":"會否違反憲法第107條?憲法107條國際貿易政策及社會財政經濟事項由中央立法。這憲法。那如果18條之一"},{"start":8442.113,"end":8470.07,"text":"允許中國企業參與離島建設經濟活動且不受採購法兩岸聯盟關係條例的限制。這個會不會違反憲法第11屆七條?我們陸委會的立場我再重申一次不管是本島還是離島只要在中華民國領域範圍之內和對岸的往來就要受兩岸條例的規範我所謂的往來是指人員流動"},{"start":8471.651,"end":8499.961,"text":"貨物流動、資金流動、專業證照的認定等等所以剛剛陳玉珍委員他有提到說那金門到底可不可以按照這個自由貿易港區設置條例來成立一個自由貿易港區在陸委會的立場可以或不可以都不是重點重點是我們現在的自由貿易港區就算你設了"},{"start":8501.175,"end":8519.995,"text":"你的資金往來投資人員往來等等還是要受兩岸人民關係條例的規範並沒有辦法逃脫這樣所以所以對陸委會來說立場是很清楚的那至於委員你剛才講的就是現在的金門道就是說現在"},{"start":8521.398,"end":8541.813,"text":"國際大勢到底怎麼發展?」他其實也跟...會給國際社會釋放出不對的訊息。那種說我們民眾黨在執政還跟中國有密切的經貿的往來。全世界都逃出中國。對不對?在中國是很大的一個曝險。"},{"start":8544.358,"end":8569.229,"text":"所以這個跟中國經貿合作已經不是這個世界經貿的潮流那我們要逆潮流行美國人會怎麼看?國際社會怎麼看?主委我覺得台灣這幾年來的發展就是你怎麼樣跟國際接軌走自己的道路那對岸的而不是跟中國接軌嘛那你知道你如果這個條文轟過離島的經貿會完全是依賴中國"},{"start":8575.413,"end":8597.461,"text":"這個是可能的發展那其實對岸他並沒有避諱他想要做什麼他沒有避諱他的企圖心比如說他要做這個兩岸發展融合示範區所以我覺得這個示範區會變成一個國安的破口甚至形成國安的危機那個林社長從經濟部主管機關你對這個相關經濟活動是你主管"},{"start":8602.403,"end":8628.82,"text":"那你覺得這個如果18條之一通過怎麼辦因為現在在有一個叫做事辦金門馬祖澎湖跟大陸地區通行實施辦法這個已經有相關公案而且還有一些彈性的措施那其實應該是先從這個東西裡面去跟這些金門馬祖跟澎湖這些而不是朝向修法嘛 對不對先去討論說目前這樣的做有沒有自然難行的有自然難行嗎"},{"start":8630.482,"end":8635.191,"text":"現在是沒有法令有制裁難行那他立法動機到底為何啊?意圖到底是什麼?你說說看"},{"start":8642.298,"end":8647.241,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查："},{"start":8671.011,"end":8693.617,"text":"這個如果按照第十三條之一之二允許中國的醫療人員在離島之夜這部分有沒有違反醫療法跟文報告他這個部分裡面那個外國那個外國醫事人是要經過我們的拿到我們執照才可以在台灣職業對啊包括離島嘛對不對"},{"start":8695.205,"end":8717.743,"text":"條例第十三條、第十二條條文修正草案案。此方說不需要符合我國議事資格。你們同意嗎?違反醫療法了。違反醫療法。再看,如果按照中國國民黨通過的產號版本,你離島連將會從7億增加到69億,基本上從28億到139億,增加了4倍。"},{"start":8725.859,"end":8744.406,"text":"事備然後呢你按照第18條如果按照這個版本不受政府採購法跟相關兩岸人民關係條例規定欸會不會違反相關包括政府採購法17條兩岸人民關係條例兩岸條例29條剛剛梁副主委說了都已經違反了嘛對不對副主委"},{"start":8752.092,"end":8755.594,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":8781.639,"end":8782.232,"text":"休息五分鐘"},{"start":9095.538,"end":9096.357,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":9186.294,"end":9187.705,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":9254.521,"end":9279.274,"text":"繼續開會請陳超明委員質詢首先有請我們國會的彭副主委還有我們陸委會的梁副主委梁副主委"},{"start":9286.408,"end":9293.912,"text":"條例第十八條條文修正草案,陳玉珍委員提出來,他為了促進離島的經濟及產業的發展,指定地區設立離島駐域貿易試案區,"},{"start":9309.244,"end":9337.79,"text":"但是我剛剛聽到我們執政黨、民眾黨的立委一面的堅決、一面的反對。我在這邊常常想以抗中、反中來保台講了幾十年。但是台灣是一個自由進步、發達的一個國家。我不知道兩位、彭副主委跟梁副主委你的看法是怎樣。"},{"start":9340.273,"end":9366.679,"text":"你說一下你是反對到底跟委員報告因為這個有關這個離島建設條例要設立自由貿易港區的問題在於還有一個更高位階的中央政府的職權然後我想還是要依循中央的政策在兩岸條例的架構下來跟大陸條治地的架構來講官司的答話兩位主委您看法"},{"start":9368.288,"end":9370.467,"text":"條例第十一條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":9371.806,"end":9398.78,"text":"我用不官式的答話來答一下好了我想陳玉珍委員當然是為了金門的發展那他希望說透過這樣設立一個自由貿易區他能夠讓金門能夠吸引更多的大陸來的投資大陸來的人員大陸來的勞工或是大陸來的醫生等等這樣子"},{"start":9399.84,"end":9406.226,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":9426.042,"end":9437.01,"text":"條例第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查�"},{"start":9451.021,"end":9470.632,"text":"另外兩岸的關係目前非常的嚴峻緊張還沒有動刀動子彈的時候我們就以經濟自由冒機跟他打一場仗阿你們不敢接受挑戰把雙門關起來等一下怕他們人員進來怕他們物流進來怕"},{"start":9474.059,"end":9500.973,"text":"條例第十一條、第十二條條文修正草案、第十三條條文修正草案、第十四條條文修正草案、第十五條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正"},{"start":9502.458,"end":9516.977,"text":"最後一句話因為這個問題問起來就時間又久了你記得中國一句口話永遠記得千金買屋萬金買出兵不要隨地的挑釁"},{"start":9518.223,"end":9543.08,"text":"因為這一場我也不曉得未來怎麼樣跟你們的總統的好朋友同時前董事長說現在台灣要去馬祖廟去拜拜知道未來的前途在哪裡其實你要展現台灣人的自信不要碰到中國大陸就一面的汙衊人的進步也有長處美國也有長處稍微站好一點"},{"start":9545.455,"end":9570.345,"text":"好了啦,這個問題談了很久,給你一個創新的觀念。媽祖保佰佰保佰勒,誇哉一瓶贏啊。 再來。 我想跟我說一句,那個現在大陸的海警船每個月至少有五到六次會進入金門的淨限制水域,對金門來說是一個很大的壓力,對我們的海巡、海防來說是一個很大的壓力。 對我們當然是壓力,海軍嘛。"},{"start":9570.765,"end":9594.938,"text":"自由貿易起來就不會不一定這樣你不要用這個這個是兩岸情勢關係緊張所有話為什麼以前都沒有現在很多你再多講大家對這個問題再辯論得越多我告訴你實際的觀點我是告訴物質主義我們實在看兩邊的情形不要看到這樣的情形這樣這樣好嗎?好啊好啊兩天再來論這個問題"},{"start":9599.639,"end":9614.591,"text":"條例第12屆第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13"},{"start":9616.434,"end":9643.002,"text":"關於我們離岸婚禮的國產化。國產化本來政府在輔導一個四季崗、一個中崗。中崗一共投資了64億,結果一無所成。害死他的協力廠商。我叫你們調查報告會沒有人來報告。你這是關關相為。雖然它是屬於民間公司,但是你換關股是最大的。"},{"start":9645.067,"end":9653.721,"text":"我現在說這個事情我還在問國安委所以國安委投資六十四天好像輕輕鬆鬆就沒有了我怎麼還緊張"},{"start":9655.789,"end":9675.676,"text":"還有一點,你硬的做不起來,只有吃軟的,還要主持一個力能公司去賣力能發電,再生能源賣給企業。哇,我不知道你怎麼比較照顧他,一個十幾天就能做起來,你做不起來,南部一些協力廠商給他害得很疼痛。"},{"start":9676.616,"end":9685.199,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":9702.014,"end":9728.041,"text":"章章網友已經講了,治愈化已經是了,免驚,美國就不遵守啦,不提我啊,讓他遵守他拐丟。其實這裡面我覺得問題重重很多,這一點我希望有一個報告出來。還有一點,現在啊你們一直在講,要電,要台積電,啊不要有電廠,不過跟我們討論也比較思維。"},{"start":9730.646,"end":9754.969,"text":"我現在說,譬如要做水庫,現在剛好太陽天下了很多,大家都說不清水,就忘了清水是痛苦。安裝水庫做不起來。第一,合理的補充。第二,你水庫現在做下去,會有發電廠。發電廠你讓地方的政府去公辦民營,有時間去打,今天人照顧得好,其實很可行。"},{"start":9755.799,"end":9759.485,"text":"阿您現在說要開發電廠!吼!民眾反對!其農林泰的鐵航工幫給什麼什麼收入阿無?"},{"start":9766.071,"end":9789.717,"text":"來,地方政府去協調好,做好了,會容然公辦民營,台積電做莊,你們不是台積電,你們台電做莊為什麼?你們好幾家發電公司都是你們投資的很差可能你公家的這樣子,你再做又有困難啊你怎麼不想個辦法去改變,一定要死守這樣"},{"start":9791.518,"end":9802.157,"text":"再來,我又跟你講,你跟農業部長,現在工量收購,十幾年沒企業,現在人家要企一個六塊,這樣要死要哭了。"},{"start":9804.414,"end":9809.137,"text":"條例第十一條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":9823.467,"end":9827.369,"text":"條例第十一條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":9839.773,"end":9859.124,"text":"我們這邊有時候下雨,有時候沒有下雨,那發展不是天然發展,那好像科幻。跟水利市的心情,就讓他們開心,就讓他們有煩惱在。我是河川裡面有一些溪流,五公尺,那邊你把它拿來,就不會。"},{"start":9860.245,"end":9887.116,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案。」案。你倆就很好推展。你們去衝到南部、衝到未看好。大家都很反感。跟你們說整個不爽嘞。你們不在地方一直不知道。如果你這個好好規劃,我會跟你講規劃。我會跟你們講怎麼溝通。這些問題你們官內都是高高在上。沒有到地方基層了解民眾的聲音。真的改進加強。"},{"start":9888.016,"end":9888.276,"text":"請黃國昌委員執行"},{"start":9921.667,"end":9942.076,"text":"條例第十一條、第十二條及第十三條條文修正草案、第十三條條文修正草案、第十四條條文修正草案、第十五條條文修正草案、第十六條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條文修正草案、第十八條文"},{"start":9943.22,"end":9946.603,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":9963.902,"end":9986.27,"text":"台灣綠能的事情最近有特定立場的媒體我是不好意思稱綠色媒體出來幫我們的前行政院長蘇貞昌歌功頌德擦脂抹粉說他三年多前就知道了三年多前就知道採取了什麼具體的作為你知不知道"},{"start":9987.402,"end":10004.75,"text":"欸我知道是委員之前也有在關心這個問題所以我們在112年我現在在請教你的啊不是我有沒有關心啊我們在112年就已經把這個案我們主動去送檢調所以到112年才送嘛112年你們為什麼會送知不知道原委不知道"},{"start":10008.755,"end":10036.297,"text":"是朱貞昌下令送的嗎?不是嘛!一百一十二年、二零二三年你們為什麼會送?因為台灣民眾黨黨團我們的前委員陳婉蕙委員提出質詢啊所以你們經濟部才送嘛我們有去秀卿的廟場你送的報告二零二三年編密件到二零二四年我再度去函的時候又不是密件了因為不是密件嘛所以我才可以拿在手上叫做普通件"},{"start":10037.239,"end":10061.808,"text":"事長,你們經濟部啊,送出去的報告你看過沒有?我沒看過。你沒有看過嗎?那我跟次長報告。你順便回去跟部長報告。請部長回去好好看一看啊。你們經濟部2023年送出去的東西啊,有沒有遵照賴總統的指示?有沒有確實在做?我為什麼敢這樣講?"},{"start":10063.39,"end":10091.924,"text":"因為我這個報告看完了以後我覺得你們經濟部放水阿放得很嚴重阿放水放得很嚴重阿薄薄的三張紙薄薄的三張紙阿紙處理了什麼台元綠能涉及那麼多弊案你們經濟部一直跟社會講我們很認真阿我們移送減掉阿但是你移送出去的這三張紙阿"},{"start":10093.38,"end":10119.205,"text":"經得起社會的檢驗嗎?經得起社會的檢驗嗎?我為什麼這樣講啊來我們具體來看啊不是只有嘉義異族啊有問題啊台南七股也有問題啊台南七股的犯罪手法跟嘉義異族的犯罪手法如出一冊啊什麼叫如出一冊肥肉大的錢給外面的白手套賺"},{"start":10121.055,"end":10150,"text":"我們國家的台研綠能啊不要說吃骨頭啊大概分到一點點渣渣人家拿到的合約是上億啊我們台研綠能拿到的是一年分146萬你看到這樣子的合約經濟部當初所謂要貫徹要查綠能的弊案要清查台研綠能裡面的問題為什麼沒有清查到這一塊請教次長"},{"start":10152.448,"end":10167.039,"text":"這個我不清楚這個你不清楚嘛好沒有關係一個禮拜之內書面回覆請台言含附為什麼經濟部的調查報告當初沒有報告這塊是要放水嗎"},{"start":10170.122,"end":10196.863,"text":"還是台南有有利的人士不敢動你們不會放水來來來我帶次長看一下契約啊我講話向來有憑有據啊來看一下我們外面的白手套簽的約是什麼拿到上億元的約是說你這個光電業者跟我這個白手套簽約我其中一個服務項目是什麼我服務項目是我砍高啊"},{"start":10198.598,"end":10203.041,"text":"可以幫你負責拿到跟台研綠能的合約。哇!"},{"start":10203.041,"end":10203.261,"text":"這家鴻輝很厲害喔!"},{"start":10203.261,"end":10204.642,"text":"這家鴻輝非常的厲害喔!竟然還可以跟人家保證喔!"},{"start":10204.642,"end":10205.683,"text":"砍高啊!"},{"start":10205.683,"end":10206.443,"text":"可以跟台研綠能簽約喔!結果搞了半天什麼?"},{"start":10206.443,"end":10207.624,"text":"嚴重的利益輸送。經濟部的調查報告為什麼一個字都沒有提啊?"},{"start":10226.308,"end":10246.126,"text":"我老實講啦經濟部目前在這個案子裡面實際上面的表現是說一套做一套一個禮拜之內書面回覆告訴我這件事情你們當初為什麼沒有移送沒有處理請台研綠能解釋清楚可不可以來第二個次長你知不知道台研綠能從2023年到2024年的現在虧了多少錢"},{"start":10252.472,"end":10257.274,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":10281.598,"end":10307.635,"text":"我最近看阿2023年到現在今年的第三季喔不到兩年虧損超過4億阿虧損超過4億阿台元綠能的資本額是多少3.71億虧完了阿要破產阿台元綠能這家公司經濟部的政策立場還要不要繼續持續下去"},{"start":10309.091,"end":10335.257,"text":"這我們內部有在做檢討阿檢討的結果是什麼現在還沒有送上來是不是台元的母公司有建議經濟部說這個公司現在已經爛到底了把他收一收經濟部有沒有收到這樣的訊息還沒有還沒有看到這個確定沒有這樣的訊息台元綠能接下來要怎麼做經濟部要檢討到什麼時候會有答案還要檢討多久"},{"start":10340.087,"end":10355.653,"text":"這個因為我們還是內部再檢討一下好不好沒有關係啊一樣還要檢討多久一個禮拜之內書面回覆好我們書面回覆主席站起來了我不要耽誤其他委員的時間但我只講一句話啦賴清德總統對社會的宣誓啊你們經濟部啊"},{"start":10357.102,"end":10358.583,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":10375.103,"end":10397.144,"text":"至少是我們主動送給檢調的我剛就跟你講阿你2023年叫你主動喔陳婉蕙站在這邊質詢你們才送的啦你要騙我不知道喔阿你送要送的不乾不淨的送三張紙要笑死人喔那我就今天就很具體的問嘛台南七股的案子你什麼時候送的你又回答不出來應該是9月3號"},{"start":10399.462,"end":10402.825,"text":"條例第九條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":10430.99,"end":10435.672,"text":"中午不休息延長會議時間。現在請鄭政權委員發言。鄭政權委員 主席好。我想請一下經濟部連次長、國發會的彭副主委、我們的各支保護委員會籌備處的李主任。"},{"start":10463.054,"end":10478.699,"text":"次長好,我首先先問一下李主任好了啦,那個次長我放最後面再來問你齁。那個我想請問一下李主任齁,那個2022年底發生的2300萬筆國倫的戶政資料外洩案齁,請問你有沒有掌握這件事情?"},{"start":10480.151,"end":10483.996,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":10498.533,"end":10500.415,"text":"條例第十一條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":10519.311,"end":10545.245,"text":"15萬元去買的那個2300萬筆的資料確實其實是台灣的護證資料你知道這個事情嗎?是,就是那個部分的話媒體也有在報導那我想請問一下針對這樣的一個部分那麼在洩露這個個資的一個嫌疑人坦白說在民間只要有洩露個資的時候一般就會被處罰對不對那我們在這一次的時候有很多委員提案"},{"start":10545.945,"end":10574.202,"text":"可是我看到整個那個我們籌備處這邊的回應的時候基本上都是希望等到我們主管機關成立之後就明年成立之後再來做進一步的演繹 對不對那我在想說這個情況我就覺得很混亂就是現在立法委員他要提這個案子可是你們這邊也希望說能夠等到整個明年8月1號之後再來大幅的一個調整是這樣的一個情況嗎"},{"start":10575.233,"end":10585.996,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會及第十一條條文修正草案：立法院第12會期經濟委員會及第十一條條文修正草案：立法院第12會期經濟委員會及第十一條條條文修正草案：立法院第12會期經濟委員會及第十一條條條文修正草案：立法院第12會期經濟委員會及第十一條條條文修正草案：立法院第12會期經濟委員會及第十一條條條條文修正草案：立法院第12會期經濟委員會及第十一條條"},{"start":10600.549,"end":10623.226,"text":"所以說你在明年8月1號之後你要大幅的一個來演繹來修法這個部分的時候你們會不會把公部門如果洩漏各自的情況的處罰把它放進去跟委員報告未來的監管的話就是公務機關跟非公務機關它是一個統籌性的一個監管的一個炒作方向就是為了我們會來列入那個修法的演繹"},{"start":10623.646,"end":10626.288,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查："},{"start":10642.195,"end":10659.13,"text":"那我們希望之後如果公部門洩漏個資的部分的時候必須要有人被懲處我覺得這很重要否則大家都不用負責任而洩漏個資很大一部分都可能都是從公部門出去的2300萬的個資出去的時候後續會怎麼用"},{"start":10660.68,"end":10668.204,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":10685.074,"end":10712.836,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案。」案件公布出來,他就覺得為什麼他們這麼小,然後他們的個資一樣洩漏?主任你有沒有知道這件事情?新聞的報導有之前有...你有注意到這個事情對不對?那你覺得這些小朋友的個資他們是從哪裡洩漏出去的?當然有可能是在學校端就有把這個資訊出去做...學校端就洩漏出去了嗎?有沒有輪負責任?"},{"start":10714.895,"end":10731.801,"text":"對目前假如說以當然現在還是分管會由教育部這邊會來做中央目的事業組員來做查賬OK那這個部分我要特別講一下因為現在連小朋友都有個資的意識他們覺得他們可能從小一入學的時候資料系就被賣出去了"},{"start":10732.661,"end":10738.426,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":10759.844,"end":10766.866,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查�"},{"start":10789.113,"end":10794.574,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":10820.254,"end":10833.693,"text":"這個我要確認因為我們有推估齁我們在能源署有推估針對整個用電需求量如果把AI或半導體這相關的投資進來會成長多少我們那時候是有成長差不多這2.5到2.8左右OK"},{"start":10836.036,"end":10862.015,"text":"那麼台電這邊說法的時候我就說因為就是因為半導體跟AI需要的一個部分所以在未來十年大概需要增加這麼多的一個用電跟你講的數字是符合的那麼在1151萬千瓦這個部分的時候我們回推現在大家因為他說這個部分大概會增加20%到30%那我就回推的部分就現在的我們的一個"},{"start":10863.576,"end":10884.207,"text":"負債量大概在5755萬千瓦到3836萬千瓦之間那我查了昨天的一個數字確實也差不多在3000多萬千瓦確實是符合這個狀態那我這邊我就再回去看了一下這台電發言人這邊講出來的情況他說我們今年再生能源的比例會佔到12.1%是這樣子的一個數字嗎"},{"start":10886.288,"end":10889.571,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":10912.99,"end":10919.379,"text":"未來十年應該再生能源我們現在再推估的話太陽光電應該如果從現在到2033的話應該會增加到4GW然後那個離岸風電應該會整體齁"},{"start":10927.99,"end":10946.166,"text":"因為台電這邊給的是一個整體的數字我只是看到這數字裡頭我其實一直在玩文字遊戲為什麼?因為他直接表示說我們大型機組未來十年要增加的量是1786萬千瓦然後我們再生能源這邊的時候就可以產生每年多200萬到300萬千瓦"},{"start":10948.388,"end":10951.012,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查："},{"start":10966.433,"end":10986.202,"text":"這個數字這個是裝置容量不是不是他講的是負載量這個是裝置容量所以我就覺得台電跟經濟部這邊一直在玩一個文字遊戲因為裝置容量這邊會有一個容量因素的部分那這個部分到底要出來多少所以你說這個1151萬千瓦是裝置容量嗎"},{"start":10990.004,"end":10992.006,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":11012.907,"end":11015.469,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":11033.169,"end":11035.33,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":11049.737,"end":11051.339,"text":"條例第七條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":11077.287,"end":11093.383,"text":"我們接下來請李玉玲委員質詢謝謝謝謝主席請國發會的彭副主委請彭副主委委員好"},{"start":11094.501,"end":11123.601,"text":"副主委我們離島地區的醫療資源非常欠缺大家都知道的那尤其是他們有重大疾病的時候都要後送到我們台灣本島來就醫所以他們會發生了很多像他們的那個這個交通費啊或者住宿費這對民眾來講就是非常沉重的負擔所以我們才希望說能夠增加這個整個金門的醫療的資源可以給他們不要有後送或者緊急情況發生的時候的遺憾的事情"},{"start":11124.221,"end":11132.843,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查�"},{"start":11155.609,"end":11164.271,"text":"條例第十一條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":11183.174,"end":11185.936,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":11203.5,"end":11207.004,"text":"條例第十一條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":11219.301,"end":11234.404,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案。」案。 »: 是有的。現在衛福部的那個IDS的計畫其實連江、金門、澎湖有落實在執行嗎?專門醫生他們駐點然後輪值進去。這個部分我們希望我們這個身為這個國發會算是一個主管機關對於這個增加金門的這部分的成為國際醫療特區醫院這個部分"},{"start":11249.266,"end":11250.407,"text":"條例第十一條及第十一條條文修正草案 案。"},{"start":11275.72,"end":11302.987,"text":"他說國際醫院也是離島的建設計畫啊?對,因為離島條例裡面目的世界主管機關還是由各部會這邊他們在主責。可是你是統籌的嘛。統籌的,所以你的支部支持有這麼困難回答嗎?還是有什麼問題?你直接說好了。好,那我們衛福部的專門委員"},{"start":11304.804,"end":11319.613,"text":"條例第十一條和委員報告,其實像剛剛委員所關切的離島的醫療資源的部分,我們已經有在推動醫學中心的資源計畫,就是他們輪派醫生在那邊倡訪,那第二個部分我們也希望說在地化的醫療"},{"start":11320.293,"end":11323.415,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":11343.339,"end":11346.161,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查："},{"start":11365.074,"end":11367.635,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查"},{"start":11383.504,"end":11406.194,"text":"有困難嗎?跟委員報告齁,其實我們在那個110年修那個醫院醫療機構設置那個擴充許可辦法以後,已經有把那個國際醫療病床融入在裡面了。好,我們希望你們積極來重視我們金門離島所有民眾的健康好不好?好,謝謝。我接下來要請的就是我們各自會的李主任。請各自會李主任。謝謝,那其他的就請回,謝謝。"},{"start":11414.053,"end":11418.957,"text":"條例第十一條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":11435.794,"end":11436.635,"text":"條例第十一條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案案案案。"},{"start":11451.717,"end":11456.36,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審"},{"start":11470.427,"end":11474.949,"text":"已經一年了,到明年的八月兩年的時間籌備會時間實在是很久了我們希望能夠如期來完成為什麼要這麼提呢?尤其是去年在我們立法院外面的時候有一些陳炕的事件發生不肖的人士就利用我們手機的基地台來進行數據的比對利用手機的基本資料進行行動的軌跡跟我們政治傾向來做一個調查"},{"start":11499.901,"end":11524.219,"text":"這方面外泄出去的所以我們想請教一下未來我們的各自法的修正是不是可以增加通信紀錄不得收集、處理、利用可不可以?跟長的報告就是現在我們先把這個委員會先把它生出來當然各自法的主管機關是這個委員會現在法是這麼寫我們可以增加這個"},{"start":11525.4,"end":11545.472,"text":"對通訊資料不能蒐集利用處理。」 我覺得這部分就是要併進來讓整個委員會做一個全盤的修正。 那剛剛趙偉所講的這個內容的話我覺得到時候應該也是一個併入。 所以我們應該保護著民眾他的通訊資料不要被外洩然後被盜用啊。 是不是?"},{"start":11545.472,"end":11546.493,"text":"是。 現在很多你看到網路"},{"start":11547.313,"end":11553.036,"text":"條例第十一條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查�"},{"start":11581.724,"end":11591.872,"text":"條例第十一條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":11609.761,"end":11611.742,"text":"條例第十一條、第十二條及第十三條條文修正草案。」案。"},{"start":11631.404,"end":11651.77,"text":"市長記者這個到底SRF到底是什麼樣的東西啊他是再生能源他是綠能嗎我想這個聯合國對於再生能源的定義是說補充率高於消耗率的東西叫再生能源那石油煤天然氣這東西他當然消耗率高於補充率嘛就當然不是再生能源"},{"start":11652.31,"end":11653.751,"text":"條例第七條及第十一條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":11667.011,"end":11692.387,"text":"我建立這個主管機關我先跟委員報告這一塊有關我們是遵循那個國際的規範還有那個環境部這邊的那個定義那我們現在這一次在我們再生能源發展條例我們已經把這一塊外界在講的一般的那個廢棄物這一塊我們已經把它拿掉有嗎等一下我給你討論到法條的部分我先問定義嘛"},{"start":11694.145,"end":11698.529,"text":"報告委員那我們有我們的資源循環署有梁副組長他是主管這個廢棄物請他來說明"},{"start":11706.031,"end":11710.592,"text":"內容物的話就是它的來源是廢棄物是屬於高熱值的廢棄物什麼樣的廢棄物高熱值高熱值的廢棄物比方說像我們塑膠"},{"start":11730.509,"end":11759.002,"text":"木質類、塑膠類等等、釋然性的、熱質高的這些東西⋯⋯ 主長謝謝沒關係我是要先了解我們到底SRF裡面的內容是什麼東西當然高熱質這個我們都很清楚那我想剛剛次長提到說經濟部把這個所謂再生能源SRF把它排除在短購費率之外嘛但是如果我們回到法條本身今天在看所謂再生能源發展條例裡面定義什麼是再生能源的這部分"},{"start":11760.219,"end":11782.63,"text":"你們在這個修正條文裡面當然排除了他不是用所謂的獎勵補助不是用輪功費率但是在再生能源的那個幾個條字裡面他一樣啊他一樣還是放在再生能源的這個相字裡面啊雖然他沒有被排除在再生能源之外啊他還是在法律的條文第1裡面他依然是不是還是依然屬於再生能源"},{"start":11785.753,"end":11803.604,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十二條條文修正草案、第十三條條文修正草案、第十四條條文修正草案、第十五條條文修正草案、第十六條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文修正草案、第十八條條文"},{"start":11807.927,"end":11809.009,"text":"條文修正草案．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、審查．一、"},{"start":11825.131,"end":11852.21,"text":"或未來其他的不管是民間企業他在執行業務上面來講他也屬於再生能源的時候大家沒辦法區分清楚到底你剛提到的像這種生殖能的東西跟紙和塑膠它是不是同一件事情在你的定義裡面它應該是不同的事情才對啊所以今天既然要講法條所以我們回到法條本身是不是希望說把這個再生能源在SIF這件事應該把它排除在外而不是繼續放在所謂再生能源的定義裡面"},{"start":11854.138,"end":11870.914,"text":"公委報告因為再生能源有兩種啦一種是可能就是需要憑證的一種不需要的齁那你現在說有兩種吧那有兩種是不是應該區分出來那我們這邊連結到的都是最後要到拿到那個憑證的那一關好沒關係這個後續再提報告給我那最後一件事情喔因為時間不夠了"},{"start":11872.535,"end":11898.023,"text":"條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案、關於砍樹、種電的問題。再生能源條例第一條就寫清楚為推廣再生能源利用是要降低溫室氣體排放改善環境品質來增進所謂國家永續發展但是我們看到實務上很多地方包含說最近新聞報導都有報導不管是台湯還是各地方都在砍樹種電砍樹之後蓋的這個綠電蓋的是光電板我想問一下經濟部的立場或是也問一下環境部立場砍完樹再去"},{"start":11898.783,"end":11917.151,"text":"作光電這件事情它屬於再生能源發展條例的獎勵或優惠措施嗎?它符合這個條件嗎?如果你再生能源條例第一條的開中名的定義就是說我是為了降低碳排為了永續發展結果你是去把樹砍掉之後然後再蓋光電板那這件事情跟再生能源條例的第一條的意思有沒有違背?"},{"start":11918.811,"end":11944.467,"text":"這個應該要有前提啦因為有一些能工造林它的其實本身的樹木如果離市林向不好那其實本身的稀碳功能是不足的那你們評估過本來的稀碳本來它就是農地所以如果說在做一些比較生態環境保衛比較好的充分的規劃下其實有一部分是可以拿來設置光電射好沒關係你們要推但是你們還是應該把這個"},{"start":11946.048,"end":11950.57,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":11981.872,"end":11986.874,"text":"條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案。」案。 請經濟部連次長、能源署、游署長。次長、署長,十月中的時候經濟部有公告,再生能源發展條例修正了再生能源發電設備的範圍。您剛剛沒有老實講出這個部分。其中排除了利用或處理國內一般廢棄物跟一般事業廢棄物轉換為"},{"start":12007.461,"end":12014.623,"text":"條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、�"},{"start":12035.915,"end":12063.708,"text":"國際上的我們再搜尋資料給委員不過國際上我們針對這些像農業廢棄物生殖能這部分大家是採認的但是包含廢塑膠橡膠等等這部分的一般在國際上不採認它為再生能源問題就來了問題就來了既然這些國家都只採用生物質的廢棄物料源那為什麼經濟部這次的草案修正沒有一併修正再生能源發展條例第三條第一項第一款的再生能源定義"},{"start":12064.688,"end":12075.998,"text":"條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一般廢棄物及一般失業廢棄物為再生能源範圍。你只是在第十一款法利用一般廢棄物和失業廢棄物的SRF排除在再生能源的發電設備而已。"},{"start":12079.45,"end":12095.077,"text":"那你自己的立法說明寫得非常清楚國際上只承認這個生物質才能算是再生能源你們講這麼清楚然後不願意面對把再生能源的這個定義弄得更嚴謹你繞道去處理這個發電設備我剛剛程旭就緩緩委員發言發電設備你本末導致投機取巧"},{"start":12102.912,"end":12105.335,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":12120.855,"end":12122.718,"text":"條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":12137.598,"end":12141.159,"text":"條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、�"},{"start":12167.001,"end":12187.179,"text":"所以我認為經濟部在沒有交代清楚到底你燒塑膠你剛剛等了很久才回答燒橡膠為什麼不會危害人體健康之前他們是不是不應該被記錄再生能源發展設備就好而是連病網連頓購都不應該甚至燒了還要處罰欸市長你剛剛也避重就輕啊"},{"start":12192.5,"end":12194.78,"text":"條例第七條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":12223.767,"end":12242.579,"text":"這個他拿來當作SRF燒的時候現在的相關的規定已經是等同歐盟的規定了。本席在上一期我就提出這個草案喔要求明文將塑膠、橡膠、金屬材質等廢棄物排除在再生能源定義上他們不是再生能源他們不是綠能更不應該拿來發電這才是面對SRF的議題應該有的這個負責任態度請問署長跟署長"},{"start":12251.064,"end":12261.307,"text":"你們要不要重新檢討這次的修正草案不要只不要只繞道只處理發電設備重新檢討什麼叫再生能源可以嗎你既然引用了國際間的資料嗎你引用部分嘛你引用一部分嘛你處理發電設備不處理"},{"start":12276.371,"end":12277.392,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案。」案。"},{"start":12303.669,"end":12305.714,"text":"條例第十一條、第十二條及第十三條條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":12312.141,"end":12337.514,"text":"長士你好,我今天主要是跟你請教一下有關除能廠的問題。我們知道太陽能光電是國家現在一直在發展這一塊,太陽能板的問題還沒有解決,現在有一個新的問題要出來,就是說除能廠。目前高雄、屏東、台南這些除能廠其實地方都一直在抗爭,那我們知道"},{"start":12338.314,"end":12357.131,"text":"你要發展綠能你如果沒有儲能廠那等於是空談你前面的太陽能板的轉換率提的再高沒有儲能廠一切也是沒有任何意義所以儲能廠還是一個必須搭配到至少這個綠能一個很重要的東西嘛尤其是太陽能光電"},{"start":12358.092,"end":12379.262,"text":"那我來提幾個啦就是鳳山的那個牛超浦的儲能場他簽約了不到一個月然後馬上就抗爭那鳳山文華裡有一個離最近的住家只有三公尺的儲能場然後那個市府也要求他遷移那林園鄉有一個儲能場的計畫那居民馬上就拉布條抗議"},{"start":12380.242,"end":12398.48,"text":"大寮區的那個設廠的案子也被居民在議會總質詢的時候去陳擬那屏東的林園鄉的村民他們去年也在指控這個除能業者根本沒有完成土地變更就施工那這麼多的問題"},{"start":12400.197,"end":12427.883,"text":"我現在想說到現在為止所有的問題都還是用行政命令在解決嘛還沒有一個專法出來是不是這樣跟委員報告有關儲能部分現在確實是透過各部會的相關的執法跟規則或指引在做處理那我們在這一次的電液法的修正草案裡面我們已經把儲能列為一個特定電力設施那這個在草案裡面我們在做檢討可是可是你看"},{"start":12428.723,"end":12455.421,"text":"已經推了那麼久了綠能搞了那麼久結果到現在除能廠的專法都沒有出來那我提一個就是說現在業者申請這個設置除能廠地方政府他只是一個用地的審查那其他呢那些機電的設備啦消防簽證都是送經濟部標準局那我想問一下難道這個除能廠他最終是由經濟部標準局來核准就好嗎"},{"start":12457.079,"end":12483.152,"text":"各位委員報告現在跟委員報告就現行的話就包括土地使用的部分有地方政府把關然後有關於設備的安全以及這個整場所的這個安全的部分會有標準局這邊有規定那另外針對消防的部分那個內政部消防署也訂出了消防的安全指引那現在就是用這種的部會合作的方式在做儲能廠的設置那未來在我們的電業法修正之後所以你看喔你剛講的就跟我剛講一模一樣嘛"},{"start":12483.752,"end":12511.749,"text":"你今天儲能廠的使用最終變成是由經濟部標準局來管欸這個還蠻奇怪的那再來你剛說到那個消防的部分我也覺得有一個很大的問題啊現行的適用的法規是內政部消防署提升儲能系統消防安全管理指引它的規範是for 20千瓦的儲能廠但是呢我們現在以那個那個那個現行的規劃的"},{"start":12513.03,"end":12529.075,"text":"條例第十一條、第十二條及第十三條條文修正草案、條例第十三條及第十四條條文修正草案、條例第十八條及第十八條條文修正草案、條例第十八條及第十八條條文修正草案、條例第十八條及第十八條條文修正草案、條例第十八條及第十八條條文修正草案、條例第十八條及第十八條條文修正草案、條例第十八條及第十八條條條文修正草案、條例第十八條及第十八條條條文修正草案、條例第十八條及第十八條條條文修正草案、條例第十八條及第十八條條條文修"},{"start":12529.687,"end":12533.131,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":12550.93,"end":12554.291,"text":"條例第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":12577.617,"end":12606.789,"text":"他的應對是20千瓦的儲能系統但是我們現在儲能廠的設置以那個牛超普是170百萬所以是原本法院他所針對的20千瓦的8500倍那如果一個8500倍的那個容量的儲能廠你還是用在原本的那個消防指引我想這個任誰都沒有辦法接受吧"},{"start":12607.847,"end":12626.485,"text":"那你光是你一個儲能的裡面的鋰電池的光是鋰電池的用量那他就跟以前遠遠的不同嘛那你用同一套標準這個是不是有問題吼那這是一個麻煩你們要注意那這個我也跟消防署講過但目前我還沒有得到任何的回應"},{"start":12627.711,"end":12629.892,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":12651.678,"end":12654.679,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":12673.496,"end":12697.896,"text":"這個狀況你們有沒有什麼任何的因應機制就是這個儲能廠不斷的容量在擴張你們有沒有什麼想法我們是跨部會在檢討那剛才委員講的其實現在有一些儲能櫃有一些新的儲能櫃那新的儲能櫃它有防爆防火的功能那我們現在也在積極發展這些比較新型的儲能櫃那新型的儲能櫃如果現在已經有一些廠商已經有量產出來"},{"start":12698.556,"end":12723.104,"text":"那我們最後會導引到這樣的一個除人櫃那相對在安全性就會比現在container這個會安全會提高很多那至於委員講的那個跟消防那個我們還會再來跟他做一些確定我上個會期已經找過消防署那麻煩你們要注意不可能容量變大那麼多體積變大那麼多結果你們還是用同一套消防指引嘛那最後我是在講啦就這次經濟部長"},{"start":12724.993,"end":12746.068,"text":"這新任的這位經濟部長當時業界也有人講就是說他本身他原本的集團也是投資太陽能光電所以他應該會非常的理解經濟部長一定非常的理解太陽能光電在做什麼有什麼風險有什麼未來性但是連最基本的儲能廠甚至匱限什麼都搞不定那我也不知道說這樣下去要怎麼辦"},{"start":12746.949,"end":12769.835,"text":"然後我們的所有太陽能的發展完全都跟不上原本經濟部告訴大家的建設的那個比例遠遠落後嘛到現在好像只有136吧136百萬瓦嘛原本是預計到可以到200萬對不對我印象中是這樣齁好吧那"},{"start":12771.544,"end":12774.825,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":12787.349,"end":12802.388,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條條文修正草案、第十一條文修正草案、第十一條文修"},{"start":12805.531,"end":12808.552,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":12836.257,"end":12843.101,"text":"請羅明財羅明財羅明財委員不在請賴世寶賴世寶賴世寶委員不在請蔡易瑜委員質詢好謝謝主席那我們是不是有請經濟部次長請林次長"},{"start":12867.423,"end":12871.61,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案 案"},{"start":12878.813,"end":12902.673,"text":"建設條例裏面要增設了包括化離島的自經區那這離島自經區的第18條規範說自經區的相關的一些管理規範審查基準由離島縣政府以自治條例定之那基本上以自治條例定之基本上就已經架空了兩岸人民關係條例甚至政府採購法"},{"start":12904.354,"end":12916.505,"text":"事長對於這樣的一個狀況你支持用離島資金區然後來架空現在的一個台灣跟中國的一個審核的一個辦法嗎?"},{"start":12917.349,"end":12920.23,"text":"條例第十一條、第十二條及第十三條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":12941.74,"end":12957.074,"text":"貿易示範區而且他是由各離島縣政府以自治條因為這個會涉及到層面影響非常廣他不是只有涉及到目前這個法令可能還要涉及到其他相關土地環評等等這些法令土地環評阿吼"},{"start":12957.995,"end":12959.276,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":12974.525,"end":12993.551,"text":"他有可能也會影響到我們台灣本島這一部分的一個產業的一個發展所以這個因為涉及的層面比較廣我們是建議說如果要應該要拉到中央的層級這邊來做跨部會的相關的再討論完事實上我之前我之前同樣在經濟委員會我在質詢農業部的時候我在講這個中國的牡蠣中間的蚵仔"},{"start":12998.812,"end":13023.972,"text":"都用金門的名義然後洗來台灣明明金門有那麼多的蚵仔嗎?金門的蚵仔企業面積沒有那麼大可是台灣卻出現了一堆金門的蚵仔事實上查起來都是中國的這個就是說離島至今區裡面它會不會變成了一個類似這樣大家一些中國的公司或是台灣的公司"},{"start":13024.853,"end":13026.674,"text":"條例第十一條、第十一條條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":13047.489,"end":13051.492,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":13071.866,"end":13075.107,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":13096.391,"end":13098.031,"text":"條例第七條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":13123.737,"end":13150.226,"text":"根本已經涉及到的國安涉及到未來整個經濟產業的布局這樣的話把它用離島建設這麼大的一個帽子然後卻暗藏著這樣的一些未來可能的風險我覺得這件事非常的可怕你們必須要好好正視這樣的一個條例未來他在審查的過程都必須要把這些事情必須要講清楚好不好那第二個同樣的狀況啦事實上"},{"start":13153.845,"end":13174.49,"text":"昨天川普也公布他的國務卿了嘛他公布這個盧比歐嘛盧比歐當年他是美中公平貿易執行法是他在當這個眾議院的議員的時候他推動的所以他是在美國禁止跟中國交易敏感科技的法案裡面的一個推動者"},{"start":13175.33,"end":13178.292,"text":"條例第七條、第九條及第十一條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":13200.707,"end":13220.421,"text":"這件事美國也在在意了。結果我們台灣自己不好好的做好我們自己的法官竟然還有委員要用離島建設條例然後把它變成一個破口我是真的很擔心啦台灣不能變成這一個中美貿易戰然後台灣變成一個法外之地"},{"start":13221.756,"end":13241.719,"text":"這部分次長我們會如果是這樣我們會審慎評估的啦我們會審慎評估你們一定要審慎評估啦因為這個會影響面會比較比較大你們一定要審慎評估啦我在下一頁齁福建事實上他公佈了22條的文件齁他訂立2025年叫做兩岸融合發展示範區的目標"},{"start":13244.292,"end":13251.536,"text":"所以兩岸融合發展示範區這個目標跟現在的離島建設條例我看這是有隔岸呼應的這怎麼會隔岸呼應呢當然這陣地的你不用說我們都站在經濟產業面包括未來台灣面對整個國際形勢川普當選後的一些我們可能要想到的一些因應措施你一定要開始去記錄我們現在在討論"},{"start":13273.386,"end":13298.965,"text":"更何況還要設計國際醫療特區然後可以引進中國的醫生進入離島嗎我會記得最近大家為了這個潑潑牙醫為了這個潑潑牙醫大家覺得說啊這個就是在於對我們這個醫師法的這個法案的一個一個可能未周圍的地方然後潑潑牙醫跑進來台灣大家都很生氣"},{"start":13300.607,"end":13310.255,"text":"這個不只是病患生氣連醫生也生氣大家都很生氣結果這個醫療專區就不要破破牙醫但我們要中中牙醫喔要這些中中牙醫然後都是跑到離島然後在離島他們就會有特許都可以跳過醫療法可以這樣嗎"},{"start":13321.52,"end":13344.93,"text":"來衛福部說明一下目前醫療法跟醫師法裡面都規定在台灣執行醫療要先取得那個國內的那個醫師執照才可以做醫療行為當然啊當然啊因為我們認為說醫師要有醫師執照就是他要有專業的訓練嘛這對於患者他有十足的保障啊對啊我們現在我們跟中國的醫療我們有承認中國他們的醫學醫學的一個訓練過程嗎"},{"start":13347.964,"end":13366.576,"text":"我目前是沒有承認他們的學歷沒有承認嘛對不對那就是這是一個前提啊那這個前提不應該會在討論這個離島建設條例的時候然後他就變成一個破口他不可能變成一個上位法然後可以凌駕於我們的醫師法凌駕於很多其他的法規吧"},{"start":13368.337,"end":13371.92,"text":"條例第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、審查：一、"},{"start":13397.648,"end":13421.224,"text":"請麥玉珍麥玉珍麥玉珍委員不在請陳冠廷陳冠廷陳冠廷委員不在請蘇清泉蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在請顏寬恒顏寬恒顏寬恒委員不在請王宏威王宏威王宏威委員不在請伍麗華伍麗華伍麗華委員不在請何欣淳何欣淳"},{"start":13421.664,"end":13435.477,"text":"條例第12屆第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13"},{"start":13441.363,"end":13460.897,"text":"條例第12屆發言委員除了不在場外其餘已發言完畢、詢答結束。由委員張綺楷、邱益穎、謝一鳳、麥玉珍、林黛嬅所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報。書面質詢和為其答覆的部分請相關單位於一週以內書面"},{"start":13462.458,"end":13470.308,"text":"條例第十一條答覆並複資本會。本次討論事項均與詢答完畢,所列法案定定期再繼續審查。謝謝大家,現在散會。"},{"start":13548.558,"end":13549.07,"text":"條例第十一條及第十一條條文修正草案案。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}