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觸目驚心我現在第一個問題是說在2024年8月發生這件事情以後我們做了什麼事"},{"start":54.133,"end":83.676,"text":"好 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燃燒50公頃燃燒50公頃今年4月我接到這個澄清跟檢舉的時候大家沒有辦法理解事情是去年8月燒了一次喔什麼事都沒做"},{"start":216.533,"end":233.388,"text":"搞到今年四月再燒一次燒了五十公頃你所謂的更換我相信一定是燒了這五十公頃以後才開始換的對不對是我的問題就來了當發生問題"},{"start":238.237,"end":263.449,"text":"你不面對問題解決問題這就是後果贊不贊成贊成我希望國科會痛定思痛痛定思痛去年發生了問題不願意面對問題解決問題搞到今年四月陽明山火燒山延燒五十公頃"},{"start":264.943,"end":268.144,"text":"到目前為止 事故調查報告出來沒有目前的調查報告是消防那邊是寫電器原因對啊 但問題是 你們不覺得這東西很危險嗎"},{"start":286.149,"end":308.02,"text":"是很危險的你們找廠商跟你們合作去裝了一個這個東西如果你們到現在喔還不知道真正的噪音是什麼的話就是CAUSE啦你如果真的不知道CAUSE是什麼的話那代表了這像是一個不定時的炸彈一樣非常的危險好 那下一個問題"},{"start":310.069,"end":322.157,"text":"如果你連實際的事故原因它的噪音是什麼都沒有辦法發生的話都沒有辦法確定的話那我就擔心一件事情了你們為什麼覺得換了電池就會沒事"},{"start":324.383,"end":353.194,"text":"那個跟委員報告我們確定是李三元電池自燃所以才我剛剛跟委員報告所以是產品有瑕疵嗎不是那個電池他放了太久了他沒有去把它換掉那個是我們內部管理的問題所以從去年委員指教的很好去年8月其實是我們在內部的管理有問題所以4月之後呢主委已經已經要求我們國營院各單位這個自我的這些檢查的SOP必須要把它做出來我再問一下齁現在啊"},{"start":354.281,"end":378.803,"text":"一樣的東西還有幾支目前國網的都沒有了全部都沒了國網都沒有 對出問題的是國網的那個是沒有的因為其實那個計畫是民生公共物聯網最後一個問題誰要賠我們的責任我們的責任我們就會負責到底對 這個我知道啦如果是你們責任當然要負責到底我的問題很具體 誰要賠是國家賠還是廠商賠"},{"start":382.128,"end":393.196,"text":"不是啦 如果國家要賠整件事情那我就覺得很荒謬啊拿國科會的錢去賠陽明山國家公園管理處這不是很好笑嗎拿納稅人的錢去賠納稅人的損失誰要賠這個部分說明一下這個部分我們有跟廠商協調這個分配的這個比例賠償比例是多少目前原則上對我們已經有初步的協商結果啦"},{"start":412.958,"end":414.981,"text":"會後順便給我好不好好OK沒問題好謝謝好謝謝黃國昌委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":677,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（11時26分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請副主委。"],["主席：好，有請林副主委。"],["林副主任委員法正：黃委員早。"],["黃委員國昌：副主委好。這個案子因為當地有民眾來跟我陳情檢舉，所以我有追一段時間，我想先帶你進入狀況。2024年8月的時候，我們在陽明山裝一個上面有太陽能電板、下面有鋰電池的空品感測器，這是2024年8月的時候發生自燃事件，副主委你看一下那個照片，看了是有一點怵目驚心。我現在第一個問題是說，在2024年8月發生這件事情以後，我們做了什麼事？"],["林副主任委員法正：跟委員報告，我們基本上已經有盤點，所有的監測裡面只要是用鋰電池，我們統統把它換掉，換成磷酸鋰鐵，甚至外面會加……"],["黃委員國昌：沒關係，我們一樣一樣，因為你講話講得太抽象了。我很具體地問，在2024年8月，這個是現場的照片，我不知道副主委有沒有看過，但我可以跟你確定這個是當初自燃的時候現場的照片，嚇壞一堆人，自己就燒起來了，我的問題是2024年8月以後做了什麼事？"],["林副主任委員法正：我們就是把鋰電池都換成磷酸鋰鐵。"],["黃委員國昌：什麼時候換的？"],["林副主任委員法正：都已經全部都換完了。"],["黃委員國昌：對，我說2024年8月以後，發生了這件事情，你們做了什麼事，你告訴我說把電池都換了嘛！那我請教你什麼時候換的？我的問題沒有這麼困難吧！"],["林副主任委員法正：因為它牽涉到國震中心，也有牽涉到國網中心，所以基本上換應該是最近，都是這幾個月把它換完的。"],["黃委員國昌：為什麼是最近這幾個月才開始做？"],["林副主任委員法正：基本上它還……"],["黃委員國昌：不是去年8月的事嗎？為什麼？這個是我的問題。"],["林副主任委員法正：它可能要盤點，然後再要重新訂製，因為能夠裝的面積都很小……"],["黃委員國昌：我直接切入重點跟副主委講，你現在在台上突然想出的這些理由都不是理由，請你們回去整理好，去年8月發生了這個事情以後，每一個時間點你們做了什麼事情用書面回復我，可以嗎？"],["林副主任委員法正：好。"],["黃委員國昌：我為什麼說你剛剛在台上……我想副主委可能業務繁多，這件事情未必掌握得那麼清楚，沒有辦法回應我的問題，所以在台上想辦法回應，也辛苦你了。但是我質詢向來是有point，為什麼我一直在問2024年8月發生這個事情的時候，你們做了什麼事情？因為今年4月的時候又發生一次，陽明山火燒山延燒50公頃。今年4月我接到這個陳情跟檢舉的時候，大家沒有辦法理解的事情是，去年8月燒了一次，什麼事都沒做，搞到今年4月再燒一次，燒了50公頃，你所謂的更換，我相信一定是燒了這50公頃以後才開始換的，對不對？"],["林副主任委員法正：是。"],["黃委員國昌：我的問題就來了，當發生問題，你不面對問題、解決問題，這就是後果，你贊不贊成？"],["林副主任委員法正：贊成。"],["黃委員國昌：我希望國科會痛定思痛，去年發生了問題，不願意面對問題、解決問題，搞到今年4月陽明山火燒山延燒50公頃，到目前為止，事故調查報告出來沒有？"],["姚副主任志明：目前的調查報告是，消防那邊是寫電器原因。"],["黃委員國昌：對啊，但問題是你們不覺得這東西很危險嗎？"],["林副主任委員法正：是很危險。"],["黃委員國昌：你們找廠商跟你們合作去裝了一個這個東西，如果你們到現在還不知道真正的肇因是什麼的話，就是cause啦！你如果真的不知道cause是什麼的話，那代表了這像是一個不定時的炸彈一樣，非常地危險。下一個問題，如果你連實際的事故原因、它的肇因是什麼都沒有辦法確定的話，那我就擔心一件事情：你們為什麼覺得換了電池就會沒事？"],["林副主任委員法正：跟委員報告，我們確定是鋰三元電池自燃，所以我剛剛跟委員報告，我們才會換成磷酸鐵鋰……"],["黃委員國昌：所以是產品有瑕疵嗎？"],["林副主任委員法正：不是，電池放太久了，沒有去把它換掉，那個是我們內部管理的問題，所以委員指教得很好，去年8月其實是我們內部的管理有問題，所以4月之後，主委已經要求國研院各單位自我檢查的SOP必須要把它做出來。"],["黃委員國昌：我再問一下，現在一樣的東西還有幾支？"],["林副主任委員法正：目前國網的都沒有了。"],["黃委員國昌：全部都沒了？"],["林副主任委員法正：國網的都沒有，出問題的是國網的，那個是沒有的，因為其實那個計畫是民生公共物聯網的時候留下來的。"],["黃委員國昌：最後一個問題，誰要賠？"],["林副主任委員法正：我們的責任我們就會負責到底。"],["黃委員國昌：對，這個我知道啦！如果是你們的責任，當然要負責到底，我的問題很具體，誰要賠？是國家賠還是廠商賠？不是啦！如果國家賠，整件事情我就覺得很荒謬，拿國科會的錢去賠陽明山國家公園管理處，這不是很好笑嗎？拿納稅人的錢去賠納稅人的損失，誰要賠？"],["姚副主任志明：這個部分說明一下，這個部分我們有跟廠商協調分配的比例賠償。"],["黃委員國昌：比例是多少？"],["姚副主任志明：目前原則上我們已經有初步的協商結果了。"],["黃委員國昌：會後書面給我，好不好？"],["姚副主任志明：好，OK，沒問題。"],["黃委員國昌：好，謝謝。"],["林副主任委員法正：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃國昌委員，副主委請回。","接下來請林德福委員，林德福，林德福委員不在。","請徐富癸委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":378,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-16","speakers":["林宜瑾","萬美玲","葛如鈞","劉書彬","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","謝龍介","張雅琳","郭昱晴","葉元之","羅廷瑋","范雲","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林沛祥","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","徐富癸","柯志恩"],"page_start":329,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146001_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家科學及技術委員會副主任委員林法正列席，就「競逐太空：國科會太空科技發展布局與\n未來藍圖」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146001_00015"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}