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部長還有署長這個豬補助請教一下署長 豬補助什麼時候開始的豬補助從民國96年就有了好 96年之前"},{"start":37.762,"end":62.798,"text":"就開始了 96年以前就開始了 那是從原住民委員會開始當時我擔任副主任委員我去協調當時的經建會 行政院實施這個住屋補助 只有針對原住民後來行政院認為這個應該要擴大辦理"},{"start":65.467,"end":84.362,"text":"所以就交給內政部當時營建署從96年開始來辦理所以從一開始,從延民會到內政部接手都是中央來負擔這個沒有,也有中央跟地方的配合是後來"},{"start":86.046,"end":108.226,"text":"是後來是您講的是兩萬戶以後一開始兩萬戶以內的確是但是兩萬戶以後擴增的時候就要整個政策的一個方向所以是一開始也是中央前額負擔那後來地方開始負擔到了這個蘇貞昌院長"},{"start":110.364,"end":137.837,"text":"拍板這個300億元中央擴大租金補貼專案的計畫當時啊這裡面就這個年度是到明年嗎先到113然後在114、115這樣就在往後延嗎是當時內政部新聞稿也特別提到特別提到這裡面"},{"start":140.348,"end":164.457,"text":"也特別提到本專案300億元經費由中央完全負擔這個是一個行政院擴大辦理然後做了這樣的一個決定由中央全額負擔那你現在突然要改你最起碼你要把這個專案計畫完成"},{"start":167.677,"end":174.538,"text":"完成了你在新的專案計劃的時候你在跟地方去協調這才是一個正辦"},{"start":176.465,"end":201.454,"text":"我瞭解 至少到今年年底都沒有變到今年年底我們還是沒有 還是照現在的狀況你這個狀況是到115啊瞭解 但是因為財政收支劃分法的關係我想這一個 我們的確也受到了一些衝擊那過去的稅基剩餘也可能不會那麼多的這個金額再撥補所以要給地方政府一個譽為一念請教一下部長"},{"start":204.688,"end":228.995,"text":"這個主計總署在跟你們溝通協調的時候有沒有告訴你們說因為財政收支劃分法中央地方的經費會增加行政院有正式或者主計總署有正式發文給地方政府說你們115年的經費"},{"start":233.499,"end":259.484,"text":"會增加多少有嗎報告委員我們現在所了解因為財政部或者是主計總署不是內政部的權責我們現在所收到的資訊就是說中央政府在這一次新的財政收支劃分法通過的時候經常性的收入會減少3753億那各部會的非法定義務支出需要配合三減28%我知道"},{"start":262.905,"end":288.506,"text":"我的意思是說你們有沒有去徵詢你們有沒有去問主計總署主計總署有沒有發文給各縣市說115年度你們的預算會增加統籌經費因為財政措施方法的修正會增加請問一下署長有沒有問"},{"start":291.946,"end":319.347,"text":"我們到目前是不清楚但是因為行政院還在修正他那一個補助的分級原則所謂補助的分級原則行政院主席總署還在訂但是是因為從年初就開始有告訴我們要注意這件事情那地方政府現在是因為面臨明年度的預算編列他需要我們這樣的一個配合我非常清楚我們都是公務員出身"},{"start":320.307,"end":349.557,"text":"你也在地方政府服務過對不對這是有收入有支出收支你只有中央中央只有收因為財政收支方法你的你的收入會增加就像他們有收到收入增加的公文啊然後你就告訴他你要增加這些負擔你要增加這些支出"},{"start":351.226,"end":372.785,"text":"作為一個中央的政府是沒有跟地方政府說你的收入會增加所以我的收入減少了所以你要負擔部分的支出這才是一個政府啊中央跟地方政府的一個合作協調"},{"start":374.887,"end":397.659,"text":"所以這個部分是一個所以才跟委員報告也是因為地方政府他已經出現這個請求因為他們也要預為因應所以我們雙方就是一個互相合作的概念他要預為因應我先協助他出這一份他不知道他會到底他會不會收到這個收入啊但是說明一下說明一下因為委員也當過"},{"start":399.871,"end":422.308,"text":"當過地方的這個主管都知道當你至少在預算裡面要有這個科目你今天如果連這個科目都沒有明年一旦萬一真的上路了地方政府會措手不及市長如果我是你的話我會協調主計總署你也要同步告訴地方政府你會增加多少"},{"start":425.618,"end":452.933,"text":"現在變成沒有啊然後呢行政院又提視線啊對不對一方面要人家增加支出然後也沒告訴對方你會增加多少然後又提視線財政收入方法提視線他也要編明年的預算啊那他也要知道我到底會增加多少的收入然後我要增加多少的支出"},{"start":454.64,"end":472.817,"text":"所以這個部分都是要建議啦我了解委員的意思但是你要建議但是應該這麼說啦因為我想在行政部門行政部門都會有同樣的要預為應做就像去年要突然通過要凍結大量的預算的時候我們也都先告知地方"},{"start":473.658,"end":486.482,"text":"你要預為因應做什麼事那地方政府他就會提早在他的預算裡面也要做一些準備我想現在大家都是在準備的過程當中當然主席總處那邊我們還是會去跟他反應是 地方政府也在籌編所以他也要預為因應大家都是一樣的態度整體的而不是個別的個別的那個然後只有"},{"start":493.82,"end":509.497,"text":"只有只有收到支出沒有收到收入所以我才跟你們講這是地方政府希望他育兒營養所以大家都是在行政的協助上他希望育兒營養所以我們也告訴他可以做我們公務員也要跟主計總署講你也要通知對地方說你增加多少好不好謝謝鄭天才"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":974,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（12時36分）主席，請部長和署長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：請教一下署長，租屋補助什麼時候開始？"],["吳署長欣修：補助從民國96年就有了。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：96年之前就開始了。"],["吳署長欣修：是，請委員指教。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：就是從原住民族委員會的部分開始。"],["吳署長欣修：對，原住民委員會的部分"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：當時本席擔任副主任委員，協調經建會、行政院實施租屋補助，只有針對原住民。後來行政院認為這個政策應該擴大辦理，就交給內政部，當時是營建署，並且從96年開始辦理。從一開始的原民會，到後來由內政部接手，都是中央負擔這筆經費。"],["吳署長欣修：沒有，也有地方的配合款。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：這是後來的規定。"],["吳署長欣修：您說的是兩萬戶以後啦！一開始的兩萬戶的確是這樣，但是兩萬戶以後，擴增時就需要地方的配合款。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對。本席是說整個政策的方向，一開始是中央全額負擔，後來地方也開始負擔。蘇貞昌擔任院長的時候，拍板300億元中央擴大租金補貼專案計畫，會實施到明年，是嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：先到113年，然後是114年、115年。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：就是再往後延嘛！"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：當時內政部的新聞稿也特別提到，本專案300億元經費由中央完全負擔，因為行政院決定擴大辦理，所以做了這樣的決定。你們現在突然要更改，最起碼要先把這個專案計畫完成，等你們提出新的專案計畫時再去和地方協調，這才是正辦，怎麼現在突然又要……"],["吳署長欣修：我了解。至少到今年年底都沒有變啦！到今年年底還是依照現在的計畫。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：本席知道，但是這個專案是到115年啊！"],["吳署長欣修：了解。因為財政收支劃分法的關係，我們的確受到一些衝擊，稅基賸餘可能也不會再撥補那麼多金額，所以要讓地方政府預為因應。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：請教一下部長，主計總處和你們溝通、協調的時候有沒有告訴你們，因為財政收支劃分法修法的緣故，地方配合的經費會增加？行政院或是主計總處有正式發文給地方政府，告訴他們115年的經費會增加多少嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：就我們現在所了解的，因為財政部或主計總處的業務不是屬於內政部的權責，我們現在所收到的資訊，就是中央政府在這一次新的財政收支劃分法通過的時候，經常性的收入會減少3,753億，各部會非法定義務的支出需要配合刪減28%。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：那個我都知道，我的意思是你們有沒有去徵詢，你們有沒有去問……"],["劉部長世芳：主計總處？"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對啊！主計總處有沒有發文給各縣市政府，說你們115年度的統籌經費預算會增加，因為財政收支劃分法的修正會增加？請問一下，署長有沒有問？你可以主動問他們啊！"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，我們到目前是不清楚，因為行政院還在修正那個補助的分級原則，也就是行政院主計總處還在訂補助的分級原則，但從年初就開始告訴我們要注意這件事情，地方政府現在因為面臨明年度的預算編列，需要我們這樣的配合……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：署長，我非常清楚，我們都是公務員出身，你也在地方政府服務過，對不對？收支就是有收入、有支出。現在中央說因為財政收支劃分法，它的收入會增加，事實上它沒有收到收入增加的公文，然後你就告訴它要增加這些負擔，要增加這些支出，作為一個中央政府，應該跟地方政府說：你的收入會增加，我的收入減少，所以你要負擔部分的支出。這樣才是中央跟地方政府的合作協調，所以這個部分是一個……"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，也是因為地方政府已經出現這個請求，因為他們也要……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：不是請求啦！"],["吳署長欣修：他們也要預為因應，所以我們雙方就是一個互相合作的概念，它要預為因應，我先協助它出這一份……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：但是它不知道到底會不會有這個收入啊？"],["吳署長欣修：我說明一下，委員當過地方的主管也都知道，至少在預算裡面要有這個科目，今天如果連這個科目都沒有，萬一明年真的上路了，地方政府會措手不及。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：署長，如果我是你的話，我會協調主計總處，同時你也要同步告訴地方政府會增加多少，但現在都沒有，然後行政院又提釋憲。一方面要人家增加支出，也沒告訴對方會增加多少，然後財政收支劃分法又提釋憲！他們要編明年的預算，也要知道他們到底會增加多少的收入，然後要增加多少的支出。所以這個部分都要建議啦……"],["吳署長欣修：我了解委員的意思，但是……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：你要建議啦！而不是政府發文，好不好？"],["吳署長欣修：應該這麼說，我想行政部門都同樣要有預為因應的作法，就像去年突然通過要凍結大量預算的時候，我們也都先告知地方：要預為因應做什麼事；地方政府就會在它的預算裡面提早做一些準備。我想大家現在都是在準備的過程當中，當然我們還是會跟主計總處反映。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：地方政府正在籌編……"],["吳署長欣修：地方政府正在籌編，所以他們也要預為因應，大家都是一樣。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：所以要整體的，而不是個別的，然後只有收到支出，沒有收到收入……"],["吳署長欣修：所以我才跟委員講，地方政府希望預為因應，大家都是在行政的協助上，它希望預為因應，所以我們也告訴它可以做。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：所以我們要跟主計總處講，也要通知地方說，你會增加多少，好不好？"],["主席：謝謝鄭天財委員的質詢。","下一位請林俊憲委員質詢，林俊憲委員、林俊憲委員不在。","下一位請鍾佳濱委員質詢，鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員不在。","下一位請黃健豪委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":466,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-26","speakers":["牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","黃捷","麥玉珍","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳琪銘","丁學忠","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李坤城","謝龍介","黃國昌","王育敏","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃健豪","高金素梅","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":371,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00014"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第26次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、行政院消費者保護處處長就「公寓大廈公設點交爭議及其處理與預防作\n為」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、「住宅法」：(一)繼續審查委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「住宅法\n第四條條文修正草案」案、(二)繼續審查委員黃健豪等16人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」\n案、(三)繼續審查委員徐巧芯等20人擬具「住宅法第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(四)繼續審查\n委員林岱樺等17人擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草案」案、(五)繼續審查委員賴士葆等17人\n擬具「住宅法第十五條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案、( 六) 繼續審查委員牛煦庭等16 人擬具\n「住宅法第十條及第五十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)繼續審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「住\n宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(八)繼續審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「住宅法第十五條及第二十\n三條條文修正草案」案、 ( 九) 繼續審查委員羅智強等16 人擬具「住宅法第二十五條條文修正草\n案」案、(十)繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)繼續審查委\n員蘇巧慧等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(十二)繼續審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具\n「住宅法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案」案、(十三)繼續審查委員林思銘等21人擬具「住宅法部\n分條文修正草案」案、( 十四) 繼續審查委員李坤城等24 人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」\n案、(十五)繼續審查委員徐欣瑩等26人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(十六)繼續審查委\n員馬文君等19人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(十七)繼續審查委員高金素梅等27人擬\n具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(十八)繼續審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「住宅法\n第二條條文修正草案」案、(十九)繼續審查委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「住宅法第二十二條及第二十\n三條條文修正草案」案、 ( 二十) 繼續審查委員林倩綺等23 人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二十一)審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(二十二)審查委員\n陳素月等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(二十三)審查委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「住\n宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、( 二十四) 審查委員許宇甄等20 人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(二十五)審查委員范雲等17人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十六)審查委員\n林月琴等19人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十七)審查委員楊曜等22人擬具「住宅法\n第二十五條條文修正草案」案、(二十八)審查委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「住宅法第四條、第十五條\n及第二十三條條文修正草案」案、(二十九)審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正\n草案」案、(三十)審查委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三十一)審查\n委員蘇巧慧等17 人擬具「住宅法部分條文修正草案」案、 ( 三十二) 審查委員羅明才等16 人擬具\n「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三十三)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「住宅法增訂第四條之\n一條文草案」案、(三十四)審查委員王育敏等17人擬具「住宅法第四條、第十九條及第二十條條\n文修正草案」案、(三十五)審查委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三\n十六)審查委員游顥等17人擬具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案、(三十七)審查委員羅智強等\n16人擬具「住宅法第四十條及第四十三條條文修正草案」案、(三十八)審查委員葉元之等19人擬\n具「住宅法第四條條文修正草案」案【進行專題報告及詢答，並宣讀住宅法第 ( 二十一) 案至第\n(三十八)案提案條文】","agenda_id":"1146201_00015"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}