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14:41:54","會議時間":"2025-06-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查：\n一、行政院函請審議「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員何欣純等19人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條及第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第四條、第六條及第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法修正草案」案。\n五、本院委員羅美玲等16人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法修正草案」案。(詢答)\n（第一案如未接獲議事處來函則不予審查。））","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":2.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.792843750000003,"end":14.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.20159375,"end":19.032218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.99409375,"end":22.238468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.41971875,"end":24.195968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.668468750000002,"end":26.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.12784375,"end":29.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.034718750000003,"end":32.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.13971875,"end":34.017218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.017218750000005,"end":34.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.759718750000005,"end":34.962218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.962218750000005,"end":35.721593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.09721875,"end":35.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.14784375,"end":35.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":35.19846875,"end":35.400968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.400968750000004,"end":35.502218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.87346875,"end":36.227843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.35846875,"end":40.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.307218750000004,"end":46.133468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.33596875,"end":48.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.580343750000004,"end":54.570968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":54.03096875,"end":55.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.84096875,"end":70.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":58.11471875,"end":58.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.51034375,"end":64.83096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.60284375,"end":67.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.39596875000001,"end":67.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.68659375,"end":77.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":77.60534375,"end":77.95971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.95971875000001,"end":90.34596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.75096875,"end":92.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.69159375000001,"end":105.71909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":107.40659375000001,"end":114.84846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":115.11846875,"end":116.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":116.82284375,"end":118.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":118.62846875000001,"end":119.91096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":120.40034375,"end":121.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.43409375,"end":120.92346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.02471875,"end":122.02034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":121.34534375000001,"end":128.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.71971875,"end":130.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":128.80409375000002,"end":131.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.18346875,"end":141.05534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.46034375000002,"end":146.52284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":146.52284375000002,"end":146.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.77596875,"end":149.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.84721875,"end":154.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":154.30221875,"end":154.55534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.55534375000002,"end":154.60596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.87596875,"end":162.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.68909375,"end":170.19846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.72159375,"end":174.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.50159375,"end":177.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":178.55159375000002,"end":183.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":183.64784375000002,"end":188.28846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":189.16596875000002,"end":192.11909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":192.45659375000002,"end":196.75971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":197.48534375,"end":200.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":202.46346875,"end":202.96971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.96971875000003,"end":205.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.12534375,"end":207.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.66096875000002,"end":211.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.50846875000002,"end":212.80784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.39846875,"end":215.38971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":215.38971875000001,"end":215.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":216.09846875000002,"end":222.86534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start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這早上我都有聽到不過我比較好奇的是你看像美國啦"},{"start":133.024,"end":148.138,"text":"美國大概來的人數跟離開的人數我看起來就差不多在三分之一來了三千多人然後來離開了一千多人相對比例比較低的是日本日本大概是在五分之一左右可是日本留下來的機會比較高"},{"start":150.075,"end":177.259,"text":"所以我覺得這個因素應該不是只有英語環境喔還有他們可能國情上的一些差異他們可能會覺得說來台灣後覺得比較適應像美國來甚至東南亞來他可能覺得環境上的落差就比較多所以後來就變得留不住人才主委我覺得因素就會只有英語的環境需要被營造然後這個就業金卡人才會留住嗎"},{"start":179.216,"end":200.217,"text":"這個是其中一項如果以美國、印度這些國家來看的話這幾個我們調查下來是這個方向那日本因為它的文化跟我們比較接近我們在調查上面它的移動的人離開的人也比較少一點那我們大概得到訊息就比較有限"},{"start":203.378,"end":214.37,"text":"所以我要再進一步問那我們現在國發會針對這一些來的人才他們大概的居住的地點會選擇哪邊"},{"start":216.338,"end":240.574,"text":"目前來講47%在台北那新北的只有14%那如果是金卡的部分那如果特專來講也是在台北58%台中占13.8%新竹占13.4%那大概那非六都之外的呢非六都我們現在手上比較沒有手上沒有"},{"start":242.192,"end":256.924,"text":"應該低於我們同仁認為是低於10%低於10%我猜也是這樣那所以會不會變得說這些就業金卡然後他們來但是相對是可能在六都尤其是在台北光台北就47%所以變得說"},{"start":259.867,"end":281.418,"text":"這部分還是會有城鄉落差就是說因為如果以缺工來看每個企業都會有缺工的狀況但是看起來要引進這樣的專業人才他們卻沒有辦法把他留在台北以外的都市那這個也是會有產生城鄉差距所以主委你怎麼樣去看這部分的問題要來做一個彌補"},{"start":282.641,"end":307.689,"text":"這個部分有兩件事要做第一個是我們可能可以再多做一點宣導讓六都以外的企業知道第二個部分是我們有跟經濟部在溝通在未來人才越來越缺乏的情況下企業可能會有越來越多的外籍專業人士進來這家公司在管理上面就會出現有多語言的問題"},{"start":308.973,"end":326.52,"text":"那我們現在也希望透過雙語政策去協助這些企業培訓他們內部的語言的管理能力那這個會越來越多那像我在彰化就遇到幾個自行車產業他們現在內部就開始有很多外國專業人士從美國過來的或是從歐洲過來的"},{"start":328.101,"end":344.05,"text":"那他們現在在慢慢也開始形成了中小企業也具備多元能力那我們也希望能夠盡快的協助到更多的中小企業具備這樣的能力那讓他們更有信心去招募這樣的人才好那我再問一個就是說"},{"start":346.485,"end":373.426,"text":"除了這個專業人才啦事實上企業的缺工他在於一些傳統的一些需要的移工他是他也是有高度的需求但是我們台灣現在有一個很大的問題這部分我也等希望勞動部等下回答就是說台灣在於審查一些企業然後一些領域上他們要是否要開放移工審查的很慢"},{"start":374.892,"end":386.233,"text":"比方說我之前在講說一樣是在這個加工廠的一個上班如果你是在續產的加工廠他"},{"start":387.503,"end":404.756,"text":"可以請的移工的這個比重就比在水產的加工廠還要多所以對於請水產的加工廠他所可以申請移工的比例就比較吃虧所以這部分他在做當時在做申請的時候 哇審查了快三年耶"},{"start":406.606,"end":435.421,"text":"這樣就審查了三年就是單就這一件事讓蓄產跟水產可以一致的這件事就省了三年那最近事實上有很多產業像我也有跟勞動部去談過像台灣的高峰煙火高峰煙火的產業事實上也是講白的他也是很雖然是傳統但是他也是危險性風險性比較高的一個產業事實上你要應徵到人才也是很困難"},{"start":436.448,"end":460.655,"text":"結果也是審查了好久從我反應到現在大概也已經經過近兩年了所以這個審查的速度效率不彰變得說我們台灣很多產業需要移工的時候結果就卡在我們整個勞動部你們在做這些評估的時候花了好久的時間這到底是為什麼啊"},{"start":463.573,"end":486.81,"text":"報導委員 目前移工開放其實我們是全面線上申辦的那委員所提的應該是說如果開放一個新的業別或者是他現有的合併比例要去調整那他的這比例調整的部分那這評估的程序可能可以在這個調可以再做縮短那事實上是因為要評估一個新的業別的調整"},{"start":487.17,"end":511.616,"text":"那勞動部會去跟主管機關比方說像剛剛提到的如果是爆裂物的話那就跟經濟部就工廠的部分來進行評估那另外環保部也會跟這個環境部這邊來做協商那整體的考量規劃會在這個不影響國人就業以及在促進國人加薪的這種前提之下再來評估這個可以引進的人數以上"},{"start":512.755,"end":526.263,"text":"組長你給我的這些都是自私的答案啦我也相信你們會跟其他部會去做評估會跟經濟部會跟環境部啊但是咧就是慢啦速度就是慢啦"},{"start":527.513,"end":549.536,"text":"這個才是問題啊 所以我覺得這件事你們要檢討啦 好不好國發會這邊應該也是要督促勞動部 很多產業事實上我們除了這一些專業的人才要讓他進來之外對於很多移工 這個很多勞動力不足需要移工的這件事我們確實非常的溫吞非常的慢"},{"start":550.718,"end":565.668,"text":"這個才是現在台灣整個企業遇到的大危機這部分我覺得國發會我們也要督促相關部會說該剎的時候手腳要快一點就要快一點怎麼這樣一直拖呢好不好是的好那就麻煩主委好謝謝好謝謝蔡議員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1315,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（14時32分）好，謝謝主席，我們是不是有請國發會主委跟勞動部的跨國勞動力管理組蘇組長？"],["主席：請劉主委還有組長。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：蔡委員好。"],["蔡委員易餘：主委，上午大概也是都在聽每個委員的詢答，也講到了很多金卡的問題，我想要請教主委，關於這樣的就業金卡目前差不多有一萬兩千多……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：一萬三千多。"],["蔡委員易餘：一萬三千多，去年增加了3,000，看起來人數最多是美國，然後是香港，日本也是有很多。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：我們再來看另外一個數據，就是離開的人數，離開的人數方面，對應的當然也是美國最多，香港也是多的，但是我其中觀察到幾個數字，第一個，看起來東南亞國家中，包括印度，他們來的人數雖然不多，但是離開的人數是相對比較多，所以是不是變成說以臺灣現在的環境，對於這些東南亞的人士、東南亞來的這一些專業人才反而在臺灣是留不住的？是不是環境的因素讓他們不會想留在臺灣呢？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們有進行過普查，大概還是在生活環境上面有待加強，就是他需要更方便的英語環境，因為他有語言的問題。"],["蔡委員易餘：一個是語言上的障礙？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：所以造成包括小孩的就學也好、包括生活……"],["蔡委員易餘：對，這些早上我都有聽到，不過我比較好奇的是，你看像美國來的人數跟離開的人數，我看起來就差不多在三分之一，來了三千多人，然後離開的有一千多人；相對比例比較低的是日本，日本大概是在五分之一左右，可是日本留下來的機會比較高。所以我覺得這個因素應該不是只有英語環境。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：還有可能是國情上的一些差異，他們可能會覺得說來臺灣後比較適應，像從美國來、甚至從東南亞來的，他可能覺得環境上的落差比較多，所以後來就變得留不住人才。主委，你覺得因素就會只有英語的環境需要被營造，然後這個就業金卡人才才會被留住嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個是其中一項，如果以美國、印度這些國家來看的話，根據我們調查下來是這幾個方向。日本因為文化跟我們比較接近，在調查上面顯示，它移動的人、離開的人比較少一點，我們大概得到的訊息就比較有限。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，所以我要再進一步問，現在國發會針對這一些來的人才，他們居住的地點大概會選擇哪邊？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：目前來講，47%在臺北，新北的只有14%，這是金卡的部分；如果是特專來講，臺北占58%、臺中占13.8%、新竹占13.4%。"],["蔡委員易餘：那以外的呢？非六都的部分。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：非六都的部分，我們現在手上比較沒有資料。"],["蔡委員易餘：手上沒有？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。我們同仁認為是低於10%。"],["蔡委員易餘：低於10%，我猜也是這樣。所以會不會變成這一些就業金卡的人來了，但是相對可能在六都尤其是在臺北，光臺北就47%，所以變成這部分還是會有城鄉落差，因為如果以缺工來看，每個企業都會有缺工的狀況，但是看起來要引進這樣的專業人才，他們卻沒有辦法把他留在臺北以外的都市，這樣也是會產生城鄉差距。所以主委你怎麼樣去看這部分的問題及如何做一個彌補？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個部分有兩件事要做：第一個，我們可能可以再多做一點宣導，讓六都以外的企業知道。第二個，我們有跟經濟部在溝通，在未來人才越來越缺乏的情況下，企業可能會有越來越多的外籍專業人士進來，這家公司在管理上面就會出現有多語言的問題，那我們現在也希望透過雙語政策去協助這些企業培訓他們內部語言的管理能力。這個會越來越多，像我在彰化就遇到幾個自行車產業，他們現在內部就開始有很多外國專業人士是從美國或歐洲過來的，他們現在慢慢也開始形成了中小企業也具備多語言能力，我們也希望能夠盡快協助到更多的中小企業具備這樣的能力，讓他們更有信心去招募這樣的人才。"],["蔡委員易餘：我再問一個，除了專業人才，事實上企業的缺工在於它對一些傳統的移工也是有高度的需求，但是我們臺灣現在有一個很大的問題，這部分我也希望勞動部等一下回答，即臺灣在審查一些企業、領域上，他們是否要開放移工都審查得很慢，比方我之前說：一樣是在加工廠上班，如果是畜產的加工廠，它可以請的移工的比重就比水產的加工廠還要多，所以水產的加工廠可以申請移工的比例上就比較吃虧，這部分它當時在做申請的時候，哇！審查了快三年！這樣就審查了三年，就是單就讓畜產跟水產可以一致的這件事，它就審了三年。最近事實上有很多產業，我也有跟勞動部去談過，像臺灣的高空煙火產業，講白了，它也是很傳統，雖然是傳統，但它也是危險性、風險性比較高的一個產業，你要應徵到人才也是很困難，結果也是審查了好久，從我反映到現在，大概也已經經過近兩年了，已經兩年了，所以這個審查的速度效率不彰，導致我們臺灣很多產業正需要移工的時候卻卡在我們整個勞動部，因為你們在做這些評估的時候花了好久的時間，這到底是為什麼？"],["蘇組長裕國：報告委員，目前移工開放其實我們是全面線上申辦的，委員所提的應該是說如果開放一個新的業別或者是它現有的配比要去調整時，它的比率調整部分評估的程序可以再做縮短。事實上，因為要評估一個新業別的調整，勞動部會去跟主管機關……比方說像剛剛提到的，如果是爆裂物的話，那我們就會跟經濟部就工廠的部分來進行評估，另外環保部分也會跟環境部這邊來做協商。整體的考量規劃會在不影響國人就業以及在促進國人加薪的這種前提之下再來評估可以引進的人數。以上。"],["蔡委員易餘：組長，你給我的這些都是制式的答案，我也相信你們會跟其他部會包括經濟部、環境部去做評估，但是就是慢啊！速度就是慢，這個才是問題。所以我覺得這件事你們要去檢討，好不好？國發會這邊應該也是要督促勞動部，很多產業事實上……我們除了要讓這一些專業的人才進來之外，對於很多產業勞動力不足、需要移工的這件事，我們確實非常地溫吞、非常地慢，這個才是現在臺灣整個企業遇到的大危機，這部分我覺得國發會也是要督促相關部會，該推的時候、手腳要快一點的時候就要快一點，怎麼這樣一直拖呢？好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，那就麻煩主委，好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蔡易餘的發言，也謝謝主委跟組長的答詢。"],["主席（蔡委員易餘）：下一位請謝衣鳯委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":328,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-19,26,22-1","speakers":["蔡易餘","羅美玲","邱議瑩","萬美玲","葛如鈞","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","吳沛憶","張啓楷","林宜瑾","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","陳秀寳","呂玉玲","陳菁徽","劉建國","葉元之","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳超明","黃秀芳","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅廷瑋","陳亭妃","張雅琳","范雲","郭昱晴","王正旭","蔡易餘","謝衣鳯","麥玉珍","邱志偉","林月琴","張嘉郡","陳昭姿","蘇清泉","柯志恩","林淑芬","邱鎮軍","王育敏"],"page_start":231,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146001_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查：(一)行政院函請審議「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法修正草案」案、(二)本院委員何欣純等\n19人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條及第十四條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員陳\n亭妃等16 人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第四條、第六條及第十四條條文修正草案」案、\n(四)本院委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法修正草案」案、(五)本院委員羅美\n玲等16人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1146001_00014"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}