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中國人有中華民國國籍嘛 變成新住民來 陸委會委員好請問一下 你的報告裡面說新住民新的單位 發展署 新立了啦叫你們沒有應用 都叫你們沒有管的 是這樣嗎"},{"start":62.646,"end":77.763,"text":"報告委員 陸委會的意思是說我們沒有業務跟人員要移撥但不是說這個新住民的照顧跟陸委會無關陸委會的那個報告不是這個意思業務沒有要移撥所以中國的新住民要找陸委會沒有找這個新的署"},{"start":84.339,"end":108.184,"text":"報告委員 因為陸委會負責是政策協調沒有啦 我這麼問你是好 海基委啦 陸委會 海基委中國的新住民 來到台灣之後有新住民身份 不用找這個書啊我們還是再找你們陸委會跟海基委對不對都是一起合作的啊不是一起合作啦 現在就是中國的新住民回到台積啊我們還是要提供協助啊"},{"start":110.402,"end":126.39,"text":"還是要提供協助市長找你們嗎我想是婚姻移民的部分是新住民身份依照基本法第二條規定的那我相信這個陸委會跟我們的話應該是合作分工啦你們討論過嗎"},{"start":128.518,"end":155.367,"text":"我召開小組的部分也有請陸委會來給我們一些意見還有分工了沒我們還在討論還沒定案當然啦因為我們因為陸委會報告裡面說業務沒有移撥剛剛陸委會講的部分是指那個就既有的業務哪一些是要移撥到新住民的是這個部分是純粹細項的業務好那它沒有移撥那你們的業務你們這個新的這個屬的業務有跟中國新住民有關的嗎"},{"start":158.91,"end":179.147,"text":"應該是身份別啦身份別如果他是大陸的配偶是婚姻移民的部分那當然跟新住民就有關了好第二我請問一下考選部或權敘部啦來有雙重國籍的人可不可以當中華民國的公務員"},{"start":180.762,"end":193.897,"text":"法委員依照公務人考試法要取得戶籍有身份才能參加公務人考試好所以我們這個新的署的署長、副署長、主任、秘書可不可以是中國人在上面回答"},{"start":201.604,"end":221.836,"text":"依據公園任用法的規定就是不能有雙重國籍那至於那個兩岸條例有規定說就是如果是大陸地區人民的話那兩岸條例有相關規範規定是什麼啦現在就有一個中國人"},{"start":224.063,"end":233.309,"text":"中國人婚姻移民來台灣啊,是中華民國的國籍啦他是中國人啦,是中華民國的國籍他可不可以當署長、副署長、主任秘書啦這個是在兩岸條例裡面的規範所以兩岸條例因為這是屬於陸委會的權責來,陸委會"},{"start":249.98,"end":272.134,"text":"報告委員 依照兩岸條例第21條的規定那大陸人如果取得台灣的身份必須涉及滿10年才可以擔任公教人員所以他前提是要拿到身份證之後還要滿10年那他要當署長 要不要出事他要放棄中華人民共和國的戶籍那依照工人任用法嗎"},{"start":273.652,"end":282.097,"text":"依照任用法的規定就是說如果當事人他沒有辦法放棄國籍不可規則於他的話 雖然不只是在中國大陸啦現在中國人很聰明啦 不會國籍 戶籍 我在說戶籍出事要放棄戶籍證明 他可以來做我們這個署的署長"},{"start":294.125,"end":320.565,"text":"包委員依照兩岸條例他一定要放棄大陸的戶籍在拿到台灣身份證之後三個月內他一定要返回大陸取得註銷戶籍的證明資料給移民署好 現在最近不是在查這個什麼戶籍放棄的嗎對 現在正在查好 他就搞不出來他說年代久遠啊交不出來的那交不出來你們有變通方法嘛 對不對對 我們有一些這變通了他可以當署長或署長主任秘書嗎包委員"},{"start":322.816,"end":349.489,"text":"如果是他有特殊的狀況的時候,我們有說他可以拒絕或延後但是他本身如果還是拒絕,他還是拒有他會做署長或署長主任秘書嗎?如果是屬於大陸地區人民的部分,這還是有依照兩岸條例的規定辦理不是啊,你不是全序部的嗎?"},{"start":351.33,"end":370.326,"text":"我們主管公人任用法,那至於大陸地區人民因為他比較特殊,所以他的相關規範是在兩岸條例裡面去規範我正在問,你題目就這樣不是啊,你全序部,他要來救我們署長、副署長、主任秘書,把三名送到全序部去,你總是要準還是不準啊"},{"start":372.637,"end":389.291,"text":"就是我們會就是針對兩岸條例規範的相關內容如果有疑義的話我們還是會把你那雞湯鴨醬這地方這麼清楚中外民國全巿部會派來的人回答不出來中國人可以做我們的署長 副署長 主席秘書全巿部說不出來你敢不想哭啊你敢不想哭"},{"start":400.526,"end":407.07,"text":"你到底是在怕什麼啦,可以就可以,不可以就不可以啊這公分三個你到哪裡去,你自己去問陸委會他如果說還是屬於大陸地區人民的話,他是不能擔任公務人員好,來,接下來這一個考選部"},{"start":423.035,"end":428.518,"text":"這個委員有人提案,說醫療新住民的什麼國家考試,由這個新的單位來負責,你的看法呢?我們中華民國有任何的新分,科技交給部會去科技的嗎?"},{"start":442.128,"end":470.701,"text":"包委員這部分確實跟考試院的限定職長還有考選部的組織的權責有漢格之處那我進一步說明一下這是憲法規定的啦是是是因為考試考試為考試院長理的事項嘛那考試院為了辦理所謂的全國公務人員考試跟專門接技術人員考試的考選行政所以設有考選部那考選部依照我們的組織法的事項你是有意的啦對 是"},{"start":471.601,"end":496.005,"text":"你們是唯一的嘛 是是是所以這條你們要堅持啊有 我們有提出書面意見你做美當說交通部的要考什麼都叫交通部自己去考取外交部的都叫外交部來你考取中外民國的國家要考取的就是考選部附近嘛考試院的考選部附近嘛我們為了某一個新聞說那個新聞的考取國家考試要做中外民國公務人員那個單位自己考取"},{"start":499.446,"end":514.085,"text":"把地震用 開一條門之下這不通這不通 這你們要堅持有 我們有提書面報告好 謝謝那王委員 需不需要他們用書面回覆你剛剛那個問題不用啦 不用齁"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":361,"blocks":[["王委員義川：（9時56分）好，謝謝主席，我們請內政部次長，還有考選部、銓敘部跟陸委會。"],["主席：麻煩次長、考選部、銓敘部、陸委會代表上台。"],["王委員義川：好，次長，你是新住民發展署籌備的負責人。"],["吳次長堂安：是。"],["王委員義川：不管叫什麼職稱，我們在新住民定義裡頭把中國人也納入新住民嘛！"],["吳次長堂安：是。"],["王委員義川：就是中國人有中華民國國籍也變新住民，來，陸委會。"],["周處長鳴瑞：委員好。"],["王委員義川：請問一下，你們的報告裡面說新住民新單位發展署如果成立，對你們沒有影響，都跟你們沒關係，是這樣嗎？"],["周處長鳴瑞：報告委員，陸委會的意思是說我們沒有業務跟人員要移撥，但不是說新住民的照顧跟陸委會無關，陸委會的報告不是這個意思。"],["王委員義川：業務沒有要移撥？"],["周處長鳴瑞：對，我們的業務……"],["王委員義川：所以中國的新住民以後找陸委會？"],["周處長鳴瑞：我們還是要……"],["王委員義川：沒有找新的署？"],["周處長鳴瑞：報告委員，因為陸委會負責的是政策協調。"],["王委員義川：沒有啦！我現在問你，海基會啦！陸委會、海基會，中國的新住民來到臺灣之後，有新住民身分，不用找這個署，都是找你們陸委會跟海基會，對不對？"],["周處長鳴瑞：都是一起合作的啊！"],["王委員義川：現在就是中國的新住民遇到事情了。"],["周處長鳴瑞：我們還是要提供協助。"],["王委員義川：還是要提供協助？"],["周處長鳴瑞：是。"],["王委員義川：次長，那找你們嗎？"],["吳次長堂安：我想依照基本法第二條規定，婚姻移民的部分是新住民身分，我相信陸委會跟我們應該是合作分工啦！"],["王委員義川：你們討論過嗎？"],["吳次長堂安：我召開小組的部分也有請陸委會給我們一些意見。"],["王委員義川：有分工了沒？"],["吳次長堂安：我們還在討論。"],["王委員義川：還沒定案？"],["吳次長堂安：當然啦，因為我們現在……"],["王委員義川：因為陸委會報告裡面寫說業務沒有移撥吔？"],["吳次長堂安：剛剛陸委會講的是指既有業務哪一些是要移撥到新住民的，是這個部分，是純粹細項的業務移撥。"],["王委員義川：好，它沒有移撥，你們這個新的署的業務有跟中國新住民有關的嗎？它的業務沒有移撥嘛！它也繼續做它的嘛！"],["吳次長堂安：應該是身分別啦！身分別如果他是婚姻移民的部分，那當然就跟新住民有關了。"],["王委員義川：好。第二，我請問一下考選部或銓敘部。"],["鄭副司長育明：考選部，委員好。"],["王委員義川：有雙重國籍的人可不可以當中華民國的公務員？"],["鄭副司長育明：報告委員，依照公務人員考試法，要取得戶籍、有身分才能參加公務員考試。"],["王委員義川：好，所以這個新的署的署長、副署長、主任秘書可不可以是中國人，這誰要回答？"],["張專門委員菀玲：依據公務人員任用法的規定，不能有雙重國籍。至於兩岸條例有規定，如果是大陸地區人民的話，兩岸條例有相關規範。"],["王委員義川：規定是什麼啦？現在就有一個中國人啦！中國人婚姻移民來臺灣取得中華民國國籍，他是中國人啦！取得中華民國國籍後，可不可以當署長、副署長、主任秘書？"],["張專門委員菀玲：這個是在兩岸條例裡面的規範，兩岸條例是屬於陸委會的權責。"],["王委員義川：陸委會。"],["周處長鳴瑞：報告委員，依照兩岸條例第二十一條的規定，大陸人如果取得臺灣的身分，必須設籍滿10年才可以擔任公教人員，所以前提是要拿到身分證之後還要滿10年。"],["王委員義川：他要當署長，要不要出示他放棄中華人民共和國的戶籍？"],["周處長鳴瑞：依照公務人員任用法的規定，如果當事人沒有辦法放棄國籍，不可歸責於他的話，不只是在中國大陸……"],["王委員義川：現在中國人很聰明啦！搞那些什麼國籍戶籍的，我就說是戶籍，出示他放棄戶籍證明……"],["周處長鳴瑞：這個一定要。"],["王委員義川：他可以來當我們這個署的署長嗎？"],["周處長鳴瑞：報告委員，依照兩岸條例，他一定要放棄大陸的戶籍，在拿到臺灣身分證之後3個月內，一定要返回大陸，取得註銷戶籍的證明資料給移民署，這一定要做。"],["王委員義川：最近不是在查什麼戶籍放棄的，對不對？"],["周處長鳴瑞：對，現在正在查。"],["王委員義川：他就交不出來，他說年代久遠。"],["周處長鳴瑞：交不出來的……"],["王委員義川：交不出來的，你們有變通方法，對不對？"],["周處長鳴瑞：對，我們有一些……"],["王委員義川：變通之後，他可以當署長、副署長、主任秘書嗎？"],["周處長鳴瑞：報告委員，如果他是有特殊的狀況，可以拒結或延後，但他本身如果還是具有……"],["王委員義川：銓敘部，這可以嗎？他可以當署長、副署長、主任秘書嗎？"],["張專門委員菀玲：如果是屬於大陸地區人民的部分，這還是依照兩岸條例的規定辦理。"],["王委員義川：你不是銓敘部的嗎？"],["張專門委員菀玲：我們主管是公務人員任用法，至於大陸地區人民因為比較特殊，所以相關的規範是在兩岸條例裡。"],["王委員義川：我現在問你的題目就是這樣！他來就任署長、副署長、主任秘書，把文件送到銓敘部去，你們總是要核准或不核准啊！"],["張專門委員菀玲：針對兩岸條例規範的相關內容，如果有疑義的話，我們還是會……"],["王委員義川：這在雞同鴨講！題目這麼清楚，中華民國銓敘部派來的人回答不出來！中國人可以當我們的署長、副署長、主任秘書，銓敘部說不出來，你們會不會太誇張了！你們會不會太誇張了！你們到底在怕什麼？可以就可以，不行就不行，這公文送到你們桌上，你們還要去問陸委會？"],["張專門委員菀玲：他如果還是屬於大陸地區人民的話，是不能擔任公務人員。"],["王委員義川：接下來請考選部。有委員提案說，以後新住民的國家考試由新的單位來負責，你的看法如何？我們中華民國有為了任何身分而把考試交給部會辦理的嗎？"],["鄭副司長育明：報告委員，這部分確實跟考試院的憲定職掌還有考選部的組織、權責有扞格之處。我進一步說明……"],["王委員義川：這是憲法的規定的。"],["鄭副司長育明：是。因為考試為考試院掌理的事項，考試院為了辦理全國公務人員考試跟專門職業及技術人員考試的考選行政，所以設有考選部，考選部依照組織法的事項……"],["王委員義川：你是唯一的，所以這條你們要堅持。"],["鄭副司長育明：是，我們有提出書面意見。"],["王委員義川：你總不能說，交通部的要考什麼，以後都要交通部自己辦考試，外交部的都要外交部辦考試。中華民國的國家考試就是考選部負責，由考試院的考選部負責，哪有為了某一個身分要當中華民國公務人員的國家考試，由那個單位自己辦考試，自己任用，開一條門在那邊，這是不可行的，這部分你們要堅持。"],["鄭副司長育明：我們有提書面報告。"],["王委員義川：好，謝謝。"],["主席：王委員，需不需要他們用書面回復你剛剛的問題？"],["王委員義川：不用。"],["主席：因為剛剛王委員的問題真的非常清楚，我都想要站起來幫你回答了，結果你一直回答不出來。你們是不是要先弄清楚，因為他剛剛的問題非常的明確，我不懂為什麼答不出來？"],["黃委員捷：主席，那你可以來幫忙解答。"],["主席：沒有，這個還是由行政機關來說明，我是說剛剛王委員的問題真的非常明確，因為這在法規上面都有，而且應該是用兩岸條例，跟國籍法也無關。","下一位請黃捷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":114,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-36,15-3","speakers":["吳宗憲","麥玉珍","羅美玲","張智倫","黃國昌","蘇巧慧","王義川","黃捷","張宏陸","王美惠","陳培瑜","沈發惠","吳思瑤","李柏毅","羅智強","許宇甄","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","莊瑞雄","葉元之","徐欣瑩","牛煦庭","吳琪銘"],"page_start":57,"meetingDate":["2025-06-19"],"gazette_id":"1146101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制、內政委員會第3次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等21人、(二)台灣民眾黨黨團、(三)委員張智倫等17\n人、(四)委員葉元之等21人及(五)委員羅美玲等18人分別擬具「內政部組織法第五條條文修正草\n案」案；二、併案審查(一)台灣民眾黨黨團、(二)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等21人、(三)國民黨黨\n團、(四)委員張智倫等17人、(五)委員葉元之等21人及(六)委員羅美玲等18人分別擬具「內政部\n新住民發展署組織法草案」案","agenda_id":"1146101_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}