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我們內政部就要開始來研擬這個組織法嘛那但是目前內政部還沒有研擬出來的原因是因為當然還要涉及到其他各部會的這些問題嘛那你到底跟陸委會等等的這些新住民的或者是這些陸配的相關的權益要由誰來幫他們協助所以今天的"},{"start":128.815,"end":158.078,"text":"今天的這個組織法我是覺得很奇怪啦但是隨著這個組織法隨著這個新住民基本法確立了之後呢好現在組織法又來了把基本法的內容又搬來這裡再來討論一次到底他的身份是不是一輩子來市長市長我取得台灣身份證之後我還是新住民嗎如果這個依照這個新住民的定義"},{"start":159.198,"end":161.729,"text":"那他這個新住民的身份要跟他多久 市長"},{"start":162.817,"end":188.334,"text":"依照新住民這個基本法來回應陳獨維上面所秀的其實基本法第二條就已經把它明定了就是婚姻移民、子女等等的其實這些都已經涵蓋那其實我們在這個內容子女也涵蓋他一輩子就是新住民所以我還是希望說榮祿取得國人身份之後就是我中華民國的國民可是依照這個基本法"},{"start":189.295,"end":206.257,"text":"他只要是新住民所生的這些小孩他一輩子都叫新住民對不對我是覺得不應該標籤化對,這個就是今天這部法令的很荒謬的地方啦我相信有很多現在可能念到國中、高中甚至大學"},{"start":207.912,"end":228.23,"text":"台灣嬰啊 然後你卻用這個法令來規範他是新住民所以我覺得這個必須要提出來齁那這個其實就是沒有經過完整的討論並且推翻政黨協商把新住民權益保障法一旦他取得 權益保障的意思一旦他取得台灣身份證的時候"},{"start":229.091,"end":249.355,"text":"他就確確實實就台灣國民了嘛那你還稱他為新住民這第二條定義就是非常有問題的那今天我提出來的這一個齁除了這個組織法裡面除了這個身份之外裡面還藏了很多貓膩包含保險包含考試這些都非常非常需要"},{"start":250.923,"end":278.614,"text":"讓社會來檢視的問題啦 我跟你說根據2024年這個台灣外配的這個生活調查指標裡面98.1%的新住民他其實是有健保的喔73.8%他是有勞保的喔那你現在又在這個第二條裡面要規定這些社會保險我不知道他規定什麼耶"},{"start":279.844,"end":305.577,"text":"已經98%有健保了欸他如果入籍台灣之後他也會有健保我們要保障的是他在還沒有取得身份證這一段時間的這個權益嘛那有沒有在做衛福部有在做啊這個內政部有在做啊每一個部會都有在做啊弄這個基本法對不起真的是很奇怪好最嚴重的考試請問一下齁"},{"start":312.135,"end":324.3,"text":"人事總長在這裡,請問一下考試公務人員要不要有台灣國籍?一定來啊新住民國家考試要不要?"},{"start":325.95,"end":345.998,"text":"阿現在的按照目前的規定是要期的國籍以後要10年阿沒有阿我現在新住民國家考試要入法阿怎麼弄阿你就是侵犯到憲法阿那是科技營業管阿所以侵犯憲法嘛一個組織法可以侵犯憲法欸多嚴重好"},{"start":347.113,"end":372.102,"text":"他要另外立一個國家考試之外呢台灣人咧我們原本大家平等的考試制度在哪裡考試院有沒有來來考選部來中華民國最珍貴的地方在於我們的法治我們的法治立足在一個平等"},{"start":373.117,"end":392.266,"text":"那這一個平等的考試如果有這個新住民國家考試來你回應一下你有沒有辦法做那個公務人員考試法開宗明義就說公開競爭為之啊國家考試以公開競爭為之啊所以也是也是違法的嗎好謝謝好謝謝那我們休息五分鐘"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":604,"blocks":[["李委員柏毅：（11時5分）有請次長。"],["吳次長堂安：委員好。"],["李委員柏毅：其實今天是一個很荒謬的會議，我從上個會期在內政委員會審議新住民權益保障法，到後來進入政黨協商以後，經過一次的協商，三個小時的內容討論，其實大家都簽名了，法案名稱就叫做新住民權益保障法。新住民權益保障法將中配納入新住民的定義，也就是說，你有本國籍的配偶，然後你來到臺灣以後，你就具有新住民的身分，有65%的中國配偶會變成新住民。當然，進入臺灣生活，取得臺灣國民身分證之後，他就是臺灣人嘛，但是新住民基本法第二條又把他永遠匡列為新住民，這個我覺得萬萬不可！但是藍、白還是在強行表決、撤簽協商結論之下，把這個法正式改為新住民基本法。在這個基本法之後內政部就要開始來研擬組織法，但是目前內政部還沒有研擬出來的原因是，當然這還涉及到其他部會的問題，到底跟陸委會等等……這些新住民或者是陸配相關的權益，要由誰來協助他們？所以今天的這個組織法我是覺得很奇怪啦！","隨著新住民基本法確立了之後，現在組織法又來了，把基本法的內容又搬來這裡，再來討論一次，到底他的身分是不是一輩子？次長，在我取得臺灣身分證之後，我還是新住民嗎？如果依照這個新住民的定義，他這個新住民的身分要跟著他多久？依照新住民基本法來回應我。"],["吳次長堂安：誠如委員上面所show的，確實基本法第二條就已經明定了，就是婚姻移民、子女等等，這些都已經涵蓋，其實我們在這個內容……"],["李委員柏毅：子女也涵蓋？那他一輩子就是新住民嘛。"],["吳次長堂安：所以我還是希望融入，取得國人身分之後，就是我中華民國的國民。"],["李委員柏毅：可是依照這個基本法，他只要是新住民所生的小孩，他一輩子都叫新住民，對不對？"],["吳次長堂安：我是覺得不應該標籤化。"],["李委員柏毅：對，這個就是今天這部法令很荒謬的地方。我相信有很多現在可能已經唸到國中、高中，甚至大學的臺灣「囡仔」，你卻用這個法令來規範他是新住民，所以我覺得這個必須要提出來，這個其實就是沒有經過完整的討論，並且推翻政黨協商，把新住民權益保障法……權益保障的意思，一旦他取得臺灣身分證的時候，他就確確實實是臺灣國民了，你還稱他為新住民，這個第二條的定義就是非常有問題的。","今天我提出來的這個問題，在這個組織法裡面，除了身分之外，裡面還藏了很多貓膩，包含保險，包含考試，這些都是非常非常需要讓社會來檢視的問題。我跟你說，根據2024年臺灣外配的生活調查指標，98.1%的新住民其實是有健保的，73.8%是有勞保的，你現在又要在第二條裡面規定這些社會保險，我不知道它在規定什麼？已經98%有健保了，他如果入籍臺灣之後，他也會有健保，我們要保障的是他在還沒有取得身分證這一段時間的權益，那有沒有在做？衛福部有在做，內政部有在做，每一個部會都有在做啊！弄這個基本法真的是很奇怪！好，最嚴重的「考試」，人事總長在這裡，請問一下考試，公務人員要不要有臺灣國籍？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：一定要的。"],["李委員柏毅：新住民國家考試要怎麼處理？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：按照目前的規定是要取得國籍以後10年啊！"],["李委員柏毅：沒有啊，現在新住民國家考試要入法啊，怎麼搞？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：就是侵犯到憲法，那是考試院的權管啊！"],["李委員柏毅：所以侵犯憲法嘛！一個組織法可以侵犯憲法欸，多嚴重！好，除了它要另外立一個國家考試之外，那臺灣人呢？我們原本大家平等的考試制度在哪裡？考試院有沒有來？"],["鄭副司長育明：我是考選部。"],["李委員柏毅：考選部，中華民國最珍貴的地方在於我們的法制，我們的法制立足在平等之上，這一個平等的考試如果有新住民國家考試，來，你回應一下，你有沒有辦法做？"],["鄭副司長育明：報告委員，公務人員考試法開宗明義國家考試以公開競爭為之啊！"],["李委員柏毅：所以也是違法的嘛，好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，我們休息5分鐘。","休息（11時11分）","繼續開會（11時16分）"],["主席：繼續開會。","接下來我們請羅智強委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":114,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-36,15-3","speakers":["吳宗憲","麥玉珍","羅美玲","張智倫","黃國昌","蘇巧慧","王義川","黃捷","張宏陸","王美惠","陳培瑜","沈發惠","吳思瑤","李柏毅","羅智強","許宇甄","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","莊瑞雄","葉元之","徐欣瑩","牛煦庭","吳琪銘"],"page_start":57,"meetingDate":["2025-06-19"],"gazette_id":"1146101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制、內政委員會第3次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等21人、(二)台灣民眾黨黨團、(三)委員張智倫等17\n人、(四)委員葉元之等21人及(五)委員羅美玲等18人分別擬具「內政部組織法第五條條文修正草\n案」案；二、併案審查(一)台灣民眾黨黨團、(二)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等21人、(三)國民黨黨\n團、(四)委員張智倫等17人、(五)委員葉元之等21人及(六)委員羅美玲等18人分別擬具「內政部\n新住民發展署組織法草案」案","agenda_id":"1146101_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}