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謝謝主席 我們請次長跟這個署長 謝謝健保 健保委員長 委員長"},{"start":29.588,"end":44.129,"text":"我先請教這個我們健保署這個受刑人的健保費啊如果是依附在家屬下就是家屬繳了嘛那如果什麼都沒有了就欠錢"},{"start":46.695,"end":61.131,"text":"我們這個如果真的是繳不出來的我們有一些這個協處機制那麼包含這個愛心專款啦不然如果它仍然有能力繳的那麼我們有六類看看它本來它怎麼會有能力繳 要關在裡面"},{"start":63.916,"end":83.513,"text":"他自己如果有收入的時候,矯正機關有一個補助的機制可以嗎?對啊,可是那個錢應該都不多啊,我的意思是說如果他也沒什麼能力繳嘛那家人也不讓他依附在下面嘛,他可能出獄的時候就先欠你錢"},{"start":85.223,"end":110.724,"text":"因為現在在收容的時候就會改類變成第四類第二目第四類第二目的話那矯正機關會協助我們有編預算來處理這一塊那法務部會再跟當事人吹角嗎沒有 這個已經改列了改列了所以在這個署長你講那個健保的有一些跟錢有關的會是怎樣"},{"start":112.418,"end":139.869,"text":"喔 那是服務費 就是說他的健保費沒有問題繳了 那個保費啦但是在接受服務的時候 要給我部分負擔一般的民眾都有部分負擔 阿姨主要是部分負擔的部分繳不出來阿這要修喔 那就沒錢了 你再修阿這依法就是要用啦 阿所以我們是希望說喔 能夠...他整天一直跟醫生說 阿姨不要給我開到那個部分負擔"},{"start":142.42,"end":145.904,"text":"那這個費用就變成欠健保囉?這個法務部就不處理了嗎?我是不是請那個署長,財政署署長來跟我們說明報告一下"},{"start":165.662,"end":187.936,"text":"報告委員我們法務部有編列大概14億多就是健保費用那至於是說部分負擔就像民眾一樣可能掛號費是150然後部分負擔是50塊就是交個200塊那他如果是說掛號費或是部分負擔他繳不出來"},{"start":188.897,"end":199.157,"text":"其實這個是小額的他如果是弱勢團體 其實我們有相關的相關的弱勢團體的補助 包括一般民眾"},{"start":202.437,"end":222.855,"text":"經濟困難的我們會有補助公益金也好或是醫院也有一些社會福利金但是我們還可以協助他向健保申請分期繳納或是申請貸款如果他欠的比較多的話"},{"start":223.996,"end":239.987,"text":"提這個目的啊 是有些這個受刑人嘛 他就要改過自新啊嘛啊 過去一年他就要被抓了嘛 被抓也舉目無親嘛 妻離子散啦嘛他也沒有收入都沒有啊 結果他走出那個監獄的時候 他就欠人家錢啊他現在欠的是政府啊 我的意思是這樣 有可能嘛齁"},{"start":246.527,"end":268.695,"text":"他出獄之後我們就有這個協處方案在我們各分區他都有一些這個經濟弱勢者困難的這個協助分期付款或補助都有好那這個兩位署長請回好謝謝市長請問一下這個受刑人在監獄裡頭可以接受大學教育嗎"},{"start":269.68,"end":280.07,"text":"有 我們今天報告有提到好 那接受大學教育就是空中大學的嘛那科系自己選對不對那請問這些人怎麼交報告啊"},{"start":282.284,"end":302.535,"text":"這個細節的部分我們是不是還是請署長這邊來跟我們說一下 不好意思就是說他一來在 可能也不可以用網路嘛他如果要教報告 他要怎麼用是 報告委員 像這種參加空大的他本身可能一般來講 那個學習的期間會延長"},{"start":304.176,"end":325.242,"text":"所以他們也是按照空大相關要提的報告 他們還是會來提只是他可能寫的學分也好 或是他能夠有的時間我知道 可是因為他寫報告他不能上網啊他也可以用其他的方式啦 當然是不能上網沒有其他方式 監獄裡面三位都沒有啊 他們要搞報告"},{"start":327.196,"end":351.222,"text":"我們相關的他寫的那個專業歌目比如說相關的參考資料他也是可以取得到的啊不一定是要用網路網路所以他們就是相關的資料取得之後他可以提交書面這是沒有問題的我知道啦那這個來來次長這署長這樣講你看現在大學生啊寫報告沒上網是要怎麼寫"},{"start":357.615,"end":363.259,"text":"就直接只看老師給的教科書跟講義這樣就能夠寫期末報告這很難吧"},{"start":368.688,"end":389.555,"text":"因為上網涉及到很多監獄管理的問題所以可能也未必適合說因為還有在就學就全面來開放所以這個部分可能我們再研議看看就是說這個接受大學教育因為他不是只有背書或者是只有翻課本"},{"start":390.275,"end":415.207,"text":"那如果他這個老師空大老師上課的方式希望學生交報告那顯然給他的這個參考資料啊就要更完整啊不然他英文就是老師一本書交講義然後隔著螢幕聽老師上課然後最後他就能夠交出報告這個對一般大學生來說啊這個聽起來是不可思議"},{"start":416.147,"end":440.423,"text":"是 我們再請蔣介石來研議就是說專門對於有這個上進學習的需求的部分看怎麼樣來處理就是來協助他們啦來協助他們報告委員 我們空袋有兩種一種是協婚班一種是協志班就是大家可以拿到協士那一般協婚班他"},{"start":441.323,"end":456.915,"text":"也比較簡單他就相關的資料搜尋好寫書面報告之後他就提交給我知道啦他就沒辦法搜尋他協志班因為他可能還有其他的活動作業所以他可能會比一般民眾"},{"start":457.876,"end":478.076,"text":"他的演習時間要拉長他們都很樂意可以拿到在執行又可以拿到學位他們也很樂意會用工去收集最後一個是請教一下我們的受刑人如果有身心障礙你們這個處遇機制裡頭有一個分數叫做作業"},{"start":479.634,"end":492.431,"text":"他可能要出來做一些東西嘛那他這個如果身心障礙這家都沒辦法那這個分數他怎麼得報告委員我們有所謂的和還儲益"},{"start":493.942,"end":515.74,"text":"對於那種比較嚴重一點的我們會給他一個優待在作業方面因為他事實上沒有達到沒有辦法達到那麼高的效率但是我們基於人權的考量會有所謂的合環處一各機關會把這些相關適合合環處一的報到我們署裡面我們署裡面會來核准"},{"start":516.838,"end":536.284,"text":"所以這個他的作業分數的計算可能就跟一般的壽星人不一樣會打八折他可以打折啦可以打八折責任分數責任分數就變少嘛會變少所以他得到的分數扣過去就分數會比較高一點嘛"},{"start":537.765,"end":554.636,"text":"那剛剛這個次長報告的時候有提到啊什麼收音機啦我請教一下我們現在的受刑人在裡頭啊到底可不可以看電視台啊這個應該細節給他講那應該我就據我的了解是有好那可不可以看爭論節目啊"},{"start":557.411,"end":580.339,"text":"包括那個委員如果有一些有所謂的進鑑的方面我們會參考法官進鑑的內容如果他有說政論節目不行或是跟他相關有關的消息不行我們那個是不會給他看那個台的一般是可以一般是可以那就是幾台可以看幾台"},{"start":582.273,"end":591.85,"text":"這個幾台可能就不一定吧每個地區的台數不一樣所以我們可以看幾點"},{"start":593.612,"end":612.254,"text":"一般我們沿著上這種是大概九點就熄燈但是在六日可能會延長一個小時到十點才熄燈但是前提是不能開大聲音響有的是聽耳機不要吵到別人那他九點以後繼續看也不會有事啊"},{"start":613.379,"end":636.469,"text":"主管會去糾正他早點睡覺生火作息主管會去糾正他但是假日他可以延長一點所以大部分都只有那個進鑑的進鑑的話就是在這一方面會管制會管制 進鑑會管制那其他的就是處遇的這個分手有高那就會讓他看"},{"start":638.028,"end":658.73,"text":"對我們的階級處理現在都比較朝向人道化剛剛提到那個電視嘛電視原來是4級就可以但是收音機要3級我們在113年已經函試了這個因為這個之前是35年訂定那時候沒有電視那時候只有留聲機"},{"start":659.751,"end":669.95,"text":"所以留生機它變成是三級可以持有留生機那這些相關的機制你們再加速來處理好不好你們不是說你們要檢討嘛對不對好那謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":250,"blocks":[["王委員義川：（9時16分）謝謝主席，請次長跟署長。"],["黃次長世杰：哪位署長？"],["王委員義川：健保署署長。"],["黃次長世杰：委員早。"],["石署長崇良：委員早。"],["王委員義川：我先請教健保署，受刑人的健保費，如果是依附在家屬名下，就是家屬繳費了？"],["石署長崇良：對。"],["王委員義川：如果什麼都沒有了，就欠錢？"],["石署長崇良：如果真的是繳不出來的，我們有一些協處機制，包含愛心專款等等，不然如果他仍然有能力繳的，我們有所謂的六類，看看他本來……"],["王委員義川：他怎麼會有能力繳？他就被關在裡面啊！"],["石署長崇良：如果他自己仍有收入的時候，矯正機關有一個補助的機制可以協處。"],["王委員義川：對啊！可是那個錢應該都不多，我的意思是說，如果他也沒什麼能力繳，家人也不讓他依附在下面，則他出獄的時候，可能就已經先欠你們錢了。"],["石署長崇良：因為現在如果是在收容的時候，就會予以改類，變成第四類第二目，若是第四類第二目的話，矯正機關會予以協助。"],["黃次長世杰：我們有編預算來處理這一塊。"],["王委員義川：法務部會再跟當事人催繳嗎？"],["黃次長世杰：沒有，這個已經改列了。"],["王委員義川：改列了？"],["黃次長世杰：對！"],["王委員義川：署長，你講的跟錢有關係的那個健保費是怎樣的情況？"],["石署長崇良：喔！那是服務費用，就是他的健保費沒有問題，已繳了保費，但是在接受服務的時候，要付部分負擔，我們一般的民眾都有部分負擔，而他主要是部分負擔的部分繳不出來。"],["王委員義川：這也要給人家收喔？他就沒錢了，你還給他收錢？"],["石署長崇良：不是，這依法就是要收，所以我們是希望……"],["王委員義川：不然他乾脆跟醫生說，藥的部分不要開到他要支付部分負擔的費用。"],["石署長崇良：因為大部分的藥都是健保給付的，但是就像我們一般民眾去醫院、去診所都有不同的部分負擔，這是最基本的部分負擔。"],["王委員義川：那這個費用就變成是欠健保的囉？"],["石署長崇良：對！"],["王委員義川：這個法務部就不處理了？"],["黃次長世杰：委員，我請矯正署署長來跟各位報告一下。"],["王委員義川：好。"],["周署長輝煌：報告委員，法務部大概編列了十四億多的健保費用，至於部分負擔的部分，就像民眾一樣，可能掛號費是150塊，部分負擔是50塊，就是付個200塊，所以如果他掛號費或是部分負擔繳不出來，其實這都是小額的，如果他是弱勢團體，其實我們有相關的弱勢團體補助，包括醫院……"],["王委員義川：就比照一般民眾，對吧？"],["周署長輝煌：經濟困難的我們會有補助，公益金也好，或是醫院也有一些社會福利基金。"],["王委員義川：他被關在裡面，當然是經濟困難，他就沒有收入了啊！"],["周署長輝煌：但是我們還可以協助他向健保署申請分期繳納或是申請貸款，如果他欠得比較多的話。"],["王委員義川：我知道，我提這個的目的是有些受刑人是要改過自新的，在關了幾年之後就要出去，出來之後也舉目無親、妻離子散，而且也沒有收入，結果他一走出監獄的時候，就欠人家錢，且欠錢的對象是政府，我的意思是這樣，有可能吧？"],["石署長崇良：有！跟委員報告，他出獄之後，我們就有協處方案，在我們各分區都有一些就經濟弱勢者、有困難的，會協處他們來分期付款或補助等等都有。"],["王委員義川：好，兩位署長請回，謝謝。","次長，請問一下受刑人在監獄裡頭可以接受大學教育嗎？"],["黃次長世杰：有，我們今天報告有提到。"],["王委員義川：接受大學教育就是空中大學了？"],["黃次長世杰：是！"],["王委員義川：科系自己選，是不是？"],["黃次長世杰：對。"],["王委員義川：請問這些人怎麼交報告？"],["黃次長世杰：細節的部分，我還是請署長來說明一下，不好意思！"],["王委員義川：他在裡面可能也不能用網路，如果老師上課時要求交報告，他該怎麼辦？"],["周署長輝煌：報告委員，像這種參加空大的，一般來講，可能學習的期間會延長，所以空大相關要提的報告，他們還是會按照要求來提，只是他可能在學分上也好，或是他能夠有的時間……"],["王委員義川：我知道，可是他寫報告後不能上網啊！"],["周署長輝煌：他也可以用其他的方式，當然是不能上網！"],["王委員義川：沒有其他方式，監獄裡面什麼都沒有，他要怎麼交報告？"],["周署長輝煌：他寫報告的那個專業科目，比如說相關的參考資料，他也是可以取得的，不一定要用網路，所以他們相關資料取得之後，也是可以提交書面，這是沒有問題的。"],["王委員義川：我知道啦！次長，就署長這樣的說法，現在大學生寫報告如果無法上網，請問要怎麼寫？就只看老師給的教科書跟講義，這樣就能夠寫期末報告，這很難吧？"],["黃次長世杰：因為上網涉及到很多監獄管理的問題。"],["王委員義川：對，我知道。"],["黃次長世杰：所以可能也未必因為他有在就學，就適合全面來開放，這個部分可能我們再研議看看。"],["王委員義川：好，接受大學教育，不是只有背書或只有翻課本，如果這個空大老師上課的方式，是希望學生交報告，顯然給他的參考資料就要更完整，不然他永遠就只有老師要求的那本書和那些講義，隔著螢幕聽老師上課，最後他就能夠交出報告，這對一般大學生來說，聽起來是不可思議。"],["黃次長世杰：是，我們再請矯正署來研議，就是專門對於上進學習的需求部分，看怎麼樣來處理。"],["王委員義川：可能要來協助他們。"],["黃次長世杰：好，我請矯正署補充。"],["周署長輝煌：報告委員，我們空大有兩種，一種是學分班；一種是學士班，就是他可以拿到學士。一般學分班也比較簡單，就是相關的資料搜尋好，寫了書面報告之後，就提交給空大；學士班，因為可能還有其他的活動、作業，所以研習時間可能會比一般民眾還要拉得比較長。"],["王委員義川：我知道會比較長。"],["周署長輝煌：他們都很樂意，在執刑中又可以拿到學位，他們也很樂意，會用功去蒐集。"],["王委員義川：OK。","最後要請教一下，我們的受刑人如果有身心障礙，你們的處遇機制裡頭，有一個分數叫做作業，即他可能要出來做一些東西，如果他有身心障礙都沒辦法做這些作業，請問他如何取得這個分數？"],["周署長輝煌：報告委員，我們有所謂的和緩處遇，對於那種比較嚴重一點的，在作業方面，我們會給他一個優待，因為他事實上沒有辦法達到那麼高的效率，但是我們基於人權的考量會有所謂的和緩處遇，各機關會把這些相關適合和緩處遇的報到我們署裡面，我們署會來核准。"],["王委員義川：所以他的作業分數的計算可能就跟一般受刑人不一樣？"],["周署長輝煌：會打八折，他可以打八折，責任分數會優待。"],["王委員義川：責任分數就變少嘛？"],["周署長輝煌：會變少。"],["王委員義川：所以他得到的分數扣過去就會比較高一點嘛？"],["周署長輝煌：對，比較容易拿到分數。"],["王委員義川：OK。剛剛次長報告的時候有提到收音機，請教現在的受刑人在裡頭到底可不可以看電視臺？"],["黃次長世杰：這個細節應該給他講，據我了解是有。"],["王委員義川：好，那可不可以看政論節目？"],["周署長輝煌：報告委員，如果一些有所謂禁見的方面，我們會參考法官的禁見內容，如果他有說政論節目不行或是跟他有關的消息不行，我們是不會給他看那個臺的，一般是可以。"],["王委員義川：那可以看幾臺？"],["周署長輝煌：幾臺可能就不一定，每個地區的臺數不一樣。"],["王委員義川：OK，可以看到幾點？"],["周署長輝煌：一般我們原則上這種大概是21點就熄燈，但是在週六、日可能會延長1個小時，到22點才熄燈，但是前提是音響不能開大聲，有的是聽耳機，不要吵到別人。"],["王委員義川：那他21點以後繼續看不會有事啊？"],["周署長輝煌：主管會去糾正他。"],["王委員義川：叫他不要看？"],["周署長輝煌：就是生活作息早點睡覺，主管會去糾正他，但是假日他可以延長一點。"],["王委員義川：所以大部分都只有禁見的，禁見的話就是在這一方面會管制？"],["周署長輝煌：會管制，禁見會管制。"],["王委員義川：其他的就是處遇的分數夠就會讓他看？"],["周署長輝煌：對，我們的階級處遇現在都比較朝向人道化，剛剛提到電視嘛！電視原來是4級就可以，但是收音機要3級，我們在113年已經函釋了，因為這個之前是35年訂定，那時候沒有電視，只有留聲機，所以變成是3級就可以持有留聲機。"],["王委員義川：這些相關的機制你們再來加速處理，好不好？"],["周署長輝煌：好。"],["王委員義川：你們不是說要檢討嘛，對不對？好，謝謝。"],["周署長輝煌：謝謝。"],["黃次長世杰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王義川委員。","議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢尚未確定，現在我們先確定議事錄。請問各位，上次會議議事錄有無錯誤及遺漏？（無）沒有錯誤及遺漏的話，議事錄確定。","接下來請黃國昌委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":230,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-21","speakers":["莊瑞雄","王義川","黃國昌","林倩綺","陳培瑜","羅智強","沈發惠","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","吳宗憲","楊瓊瓔","蘇清泉"],"page_start":173,"meetingDate":["2025-06-23"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請法務部部長、法務部矯正署署長、司法院及衛生福利部就「現行獄政與受刑人處遇機制之制\n度檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146201_00011"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}