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我們的股市"},{"start":43.51,"end":68.63,"text":"暴跌了400多點那這個看起來是原油應該會是往上上升的包括牛津經濟研究院都評估說啊再這樣下去啊原油一桶可能會飆升到美元130塊錢那這個可能就帶動物價嘛接下來可能是通膨他甚至認為說連美國這個通膨啊到年底可能都會到6%那我們國內這個對經濟會有衝擊經濟會有做什麼準備嗎"},{"start":73.48,"end":96.909,"text":"我們確實如委員所垂詢的我們都有做準備我們從這個國際原油價格80塊現在的這個狀況一直推你到您剛才所說的130塊我們分成幾個不同的階段的這個油價都做了這一些情境的分析那麼根據所有的情境分析我們研擬出我們中油應該要有的對策"},{"start":97.569,"end":125.138,"text":"那麼這裡面當然有考慮到委員所垂詢的這個對CPI影響會有多少我想整體的這個部分不是只有經濟部或者是中油公司在處理這個事情我們行政院經濟部的上級長官對這個命題也非常非常的重要所以我們都整體有在對這個荷姆茲海峽的封鎖所造成的影響做出各種的推論對"},{"start":128.074,"end":154.779,"text":"這個非常重要啦所以冰淚白其實賴總統有召開國安會議嘛那現在看起來上禮拜開完之後現在這個衝突是在升高的因為美國出手了美國發動攻擊然後今天最新的消息是伊朗的國會已經通過了開始要封鎖荷摩茲這個海峽所以這個問題是在加劇當中部長你要不要利用這個機會跟前面講經濟部要怎麼樣去安定人心對經濟衝擊最小"},{"start":157.275,"end":180.373,"text":"經濟部我們對這種各種的狀況都有研擬我們都有研擬所以我想這個全國國人應該可以放心我們對80塊的時候應該怎麼做對90塊怎麼做100塊會怎麼做都有各種不同的情境分析那麼對各種的變數影響都有做出具體的因應的模式這個不是只有經濟部"},{"start":181.67,"end":206.22,"text":"一個部門在做的事情也不是中油公司一家公司在應應的事情這是整體行政院我們跨部會都有做一些這些的準備民眾非常關心你看股市那麼敏感一下就跌了400點了然後世上代總統跟總理長一定會再問你因為看起來是在這個戰情在升溫當中好不好那接下來要問一個人命關天的這個事情"},{"start":208.127,"end":226.474,"text":"這個在媒體啊跟這個網路上啊罵聲連連這非常嚴重的一件事情就是高雄的大樹村51公頃的山山被鏟平了樹被砍掉了人命的關天而且前幾天這個地方"},{"start":228.223,"end":246.475,"text":"一場暴雨啊 滾滾的那個黃石衝下來當地的民眾來陳情 也抗議了 媒體說 媒體一個形容說什麼有可能會變成是以前小林村 媚村一個很大的一個悲劇所以現在要趕快要處理這個問題不然你們看這個圖 你們看這是一座山 51公頃喔結果山被鏟平了 右上角全部鋪了光電板"},{"start":257.017,"end":282.784,"text":"下面不遠的地方就是一個社區前陣子一場暴雨那個土石已經沖下來了這是非常嚴重的一個問題那今天特別要問你的是我在11日11號提出了這個質詢問農業部部長之後我看你們的那個高雄市政府馬上去處理你們在6月13號能源署開罰了150萬"},{"start":286.601,"end":314.6,"text":"對不對 可是高雄市政府現在更進一步囉他現在不是說光開闊一百五啊他說要求你們能源署要做進一步這個處理包括除色洗殼都要廢掉我們先來看喔 你看現場不然另外你看一下剛剛那個是空照圖這個是陳情的民眾當地民眾拍下來的你看 這個擋土牆一山被鏟平了擋土牆竟然只有做一半"},{"start":316.479,"end":342.021,"text":"多危險啊 下一個 你看 這邊這個黨主席有說這樣這個合法合規嗎 多危險的事情 再來看不是一個地方欸很多地方都有很大的問題現在國融基金會明確要求 它說這個責任包括匯除除色席殼是經濟部的責任經濟部要匯除他們的除色席殼嗎"},{"start":343.432,"end":367.262,"text":"報告委員 基本上我們一定會廢除他的酬赦許可但是必須要在高雄市政府把他的文件發出以後我們會即刻來廢止他的酬赦許可這個高雄市政府是在一個禮拜前就開了會啦 6月18號來看這個說水土保守法 地 來看上一張 水土保守法"},{"start":368.732,"end":386.291,"text":"第三十三條 他們已經發了一百零八萬然後高雄省政府還把這個案子已經移送到地檢署去申辦了然後他們除了要求要停工之外要求能源署 你看 保證 你看明明確確他一天白天就要求能源署要撤銷他的許可要終止這個開發"},{"start":388.531,"end":411.148,"text":"文件還沒到你那邊是不是文件他還沒有發高雄市政府還沒有發出來能源署沒有辦法依照這個所發出來的文件來執行我們應該做的這個作為嘛所以跟委員報告只要高雄市政府發出這個文件我們能源署立馬就發出停止他這個施工的這個許可就是一收到"},{"start":412.51,"end":436.346,"text":"馬上立即停止他撤銷他的酬赦席可對不對依法有據嘛依法有據我們必須要根據這個來這個都送到地檢署了柏弟這個是命關天的事情我們完全同意您的說法嘛這個也是依法所有的這個能源署我想我們都是依法依規在執行我們的任務所以您剛才所垂詢的這個部分我們一開始"},{"start":436.986,"end":465.752,"text":"就是完全跟您的這個說法是完全一樣我們馬上做出這個決定只是我們現在在等高雄市政府的這個文件已經一個禮拜了不要變成兩邊在踢皮球喔回去以後可能要查要追一下到底文來的沒有好不好那如果文來的部長已經受了宣示了嘛趕快要停止我們每天都在查這件事情啦這個大家這個社會這麼關注的這個命題我們不可能在那個地方什麼事情都不做"},{"start":466.052,"end":480.474,"text":"那個高雄市政府真的是牛不化了陳其邁每天在衝衝衝是個軟男對不對一個文一個禮拜這個委員你大概沒有待過市政府啦所以我想你不能這樣批評高雄市市長人命關天喔"},{"start":481.215,"end":507.972,"text":"第一個前陣子已經有一場大雨土石已經下來了第二個現在風太低對不對我們大家所關心的我們大家所關心的我們大家所關心的但是即使大家所關心的方向是一樣做法大家都非常的努力但是報告委員我們必須要依照法令上面所進行的程序去把它做完備"},{"start":508.912,"end":536.621,"text":"不可能說跳脫法律允許的範圍我們這個超前去做這個部分在政府是不允許的你看不只居民全國民眾等下就會跟你反映了一個人命關天的事情一個公文履行了拖延了一個禮拜你要幫他講話而且現在是颱風的這個季節欸要快一點啦要快一點啦現在是跟時間在賽跑在搶救人命啦好 那 博定不是只有這個案子同樣在高雄啊"},{"start":537.745,"end":559.802,"text":"還有一個在祁山區啊這個碼頭山的這個也是光電的開發你看這個碧安這麼多他這次是 這個山是多少啊55公頃一段講一段更加嚴重然後他還是一個兩條活動斷層跟泥沿地這個二地之間這個如果一開發啊"},{"start":561.411,"end":569.4,"text":"第一個 你看穿山甲 水鹿 豬鯉這些稀有動物的棲息可能都受到問題然後對那個地質衝擊也會非常大法定這案我要處理啦 來時間有限齁 我趕快 趕快我們做四個結論第一個"},{"start":580.929,"end":604.476,"text":"因為現在不要變成是踢皮球啦高雄市政府說很多責任都在中央的內政部經濟部跟農業部所以我請經濟部因為是你們核准的嘛第一個做一件事情把你們當初核定的範圍土地的數量跟總面積還有你們中央的責任跟地方責任把它清清楚楚的一定好不好這個聞了到你們那邊嘛對不對然後第二個"},{"start":605.831,"end":628.315,"text":"山坡地的開發要更嚴格因為目前這個規範啊山坡地以前都沒有做環評山坡地是不是另外要受到限制要整體趕快來檢討 好不好另外這個案子啊一年喔 光是營收可以賺大概4.2億結果目前為止高雄聖聖湖的財閥才財閥還罰了180萬能源署去罰了150萬要幫他訂五個"},{"start":635.422,"end":642.307,"text":"這根本就沒有影響啊對他來講4.2億欸一年算4.2億欸你這個財閥太低了所以我明確的要求"},{"start":643.186,"end":670.013,"text":"因為他有可能被你們撤銷對不對然後他還規定喔你如果初期借滿之後這個土地還要復原欸那山已經被你產平了怎麼去復原所以這個東西要好好去追究好最後做一個要求因為現在看起來山坡地不是只有剛剛講這兩個案子嘛不然你能答應我嗎一個月內關於你的光電推動裡面如果有次山坡地能不能一個月提出一個整體的報告跟解決方案"},{"start":671.96,"end":682.847,"text":"好 可以好 我定這位搶救人命啦真的要跟時間賽跑這不是等鬥熊4台運這麼慢來啦卡個電話算什麼問題 好不好老實講如果最近發生颱風"},{"start":684.446,"end":700.852,"text":"鬧出人品外購 這個不是行政責任喔這個有刑事責任喔 好不好我們跟市政府 加油我們跟高雄市政府啊 我們在上個禮拜就已經針對這個命題進入深度的這個研究了我們並沒有像你才講說 漠不關心啦這一點我必須要在這個地方說明一下"},{"start":704.072,"end":724.413,"text":"一個禮拜就是要有一些就是要法定規定啊人家高雄市政府都已經說我們將來可以來這個地方受一些修法請這個委員來幫忙啦謝謝委員現在趕快跟時間賽跑一個禮拜算太久了趕快趕快你既然有聯絡趕快加快速度好不好民眾都在等跟時間賽跑搶救人命謝謝好"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":374,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（9時47分）多謝主席，請郭部長。"],["主席：郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，以色列跟伊朗軍事衝突一直在升高，特別是美國發動攻擊之後，現在看起來對經濟的衝擊可能會很大，今天早上我們的股市暴跌了四百多點，看起來原油應該會是往上升，包括牛津經濟研究院都評估說，再這樣下去，原油一桶可能會飆升到美元130塊錢，可能就會帶動物價，接下來可能是通膨，它甚至認為到年底，連美國的通膨都會到6%，這個在我們國內對經濟會有衝擊，經濟部有做了什麼準備嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：確實如委員所垂詢的，我們都有做準備，我們從國際原油價格80塊現在的狀況，一直推擬到您剛才所說的130塊，我們分成幾個不同的階段的油價都做了這一些情境的分析，根據所有的情境分析，我們研擬出中油應該要有的對策，這裡面當然有考慮到委員所垂詢的對CPI的影響會有多少，我想整體的部分不是只有經濟部或者是中油公司在處理這個事情，行政院、經濟部的上級長官對這個命題也非常非常非常重要，所以我們都整體有在對荷姆茲海峽的封鎖所造成的影響做出各種推論。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，這個非常重要，所以上禮拜其實賴總統有召開國安會議，現在看起來上禮拜開完之後，現在衝突是在升高的，因為美國出手了，美國發動攻擊，然後今天最新的消息是伊朗的國會已經通過了，開始要封鎖荷姆茲海峽，所以這個問題是在加劇當中，部長，你要不要利用這個機會跟全民講經濟部要怎麼樣去安定人心，對經濟衝擊最小？"],["郭部長智輝：經濟部對各種狀況都有研擬……"],["張委員啓楷：上個禮拜又升高了嘛！"],["郭部長智輝：我們都有研擬，我想全國國人應該可以放心，我們對80塊的時候應該怎麼做，對90塊、100塊怎麼做都有各種不同的情境分析，對各種的變數影響都有做出具體的因應模式，這個不是只有經濟部一個部門在做的事情，也不是中油一家公司在因應的事情，這是整體行政院、跨部會都有做這一些的準備。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，民眾非常關心，你看股市那麼敏感，一下子就跌了400點，事實上賴總統跟卓院長一定會再問你，因為看起來這個戰情在升溫當中，好不好？","接下來要問一個人命關天的事情，這個在媒體跟網路上罵聲連連，這是非常嚴重的一件事情，就是高雄大樹區51公頃的山被剷平了、樹被砍掉了，人命關天，而且前幾天這個地方因一場暴雨而滾滾黃石沖下來，當地民眾來陳情也抗議，媒體形容有可能會變成以前小林村被滅村的一個大悲劇，所以現在要趕快處理這個問題。部長，我給你看這個圖，這是一座山，結果51公頃的山被剷平了，右上角全部鋪了光電板，下面不遠的地方就是一個社區，前陣子的一場暴雨，土石已經沖下來了，這是非常嚴重的一個問題。","今天特別要問你的是，我在11號提出質詢問農業部部長之後，我看高雄市政府馬上去處理，在6月13號能源署開罰了150萬，對不對？可是高雄市政府現在更進一步了，他們現在不是只有開罰150萬而已，他們還要求能源署要做進一步的處理，包括籌設許可都要廢掉。我們先來看現場，部長，我給你看一下，剛剛那個是空照圖，這個是當地陳情民眾拍下來的，你看這個擋土牆，山被剷平了，擋土牆竟然只有做一半，多危險啊！下一張，你看這邊一個擋土牆只有做這樣，這個合法、合規嗎？多危險的事情。再來看，不是只有一個地方，很多地方都有很大的問題。部長，現在高雄市政府明確要求，他們說廢除籌設許可是經濟部的責任，經濟部要廢除它的籌設許可嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，基本上我們一定會廢除它的籌設許可，但是必須要在高雄市政府把其文件發出以後，我們會即刻來廢止它的籌設許可。"],["張委員啓楷：高雄市政府在一個禮拜前6月18號就開了會，依水土保持法第三十三條，他們已經罰了108萬，高雄市政府還把這個案子已經移送地檢署偵辦了，他們除了要求停工之外，也要求能源署……部長，你看明明確確，它一個禮拜前就要求能源署要撤銷它的許可、要終止這個開發。"],["郭部長智輝：是啊！"],["張委員啓楷：文件還沒到你那邊，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：高雄市政府還沒有發出來文件，能源署沒有辦法依照所發出來的文件來執行我們應該做的作為。跟委員報告，只要高雄市政府發出這個文件，我們能源署立馬就發出停止它施工許可。"],["張委員啓楷：就是一收到馬上立即撤銷它的籌設許可，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：依法有據嘛！我們必須要根據這個來執行。"],["張委員啓楷：這個都送到地檢署了，部長，這個是人命關天的事情，而且我們現在跟時間……"],["郭部長智輝：是啊！我們完全同意您的說法，能源署都是依法、依規在執行我們的任務，所以您剛才所垂詢的這個部分，我們一開始就是跟您的這個說法是完全一樣，我們馬上作出這個決定，只是我們現在在等高雄市政府的這個文件。"],["張委員啓楷：好，已經一個禮拜了，不要變成兩邊在踢皮球，回去以後可能要追一下到底文來了沒有，好不好？如果文來了，部長已經做了宣示，趕快要停止。部長，這裡面還有一個問題……"],["郭部長智輝：我們每天都在查這件事情，社會這麼關注的命題，我們不可能在那個地方什麼事情都不做。"],["張委員啓楷：高雄市政府真的是牛步化了，陳其邁每次都在衝、衝、衝，是個暖男，對不對？一個文一個禮拜還沒……"],["郭部長智輝：委員，你大概沒有待過市政府，所以我想你不能這樣批評高雄市市長。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，人命關天，第一個，前陣子的一場大雨讓土石已經下來了；第二個，現在是颱風季，颱風隨時要來……"],["郭部長智輝：我們大家所關心的……"],["張委員啓楷：這是第一個，人命關天；第二個，跟時間在賽跑，這不能拖耶！"],["郭部長智輝：對，我們大家所關心的都是這個樣子。"],["張委員啓楷：不只是地方不能拖，中央也不能拖啦！"],["郭部長智輝：即使大家所關心的方向是一樣，作法大家都非常的努力，但是報告委員，我們必須要依照法令上面所進行的程序去把它做完備，不可能跳脫法律允許的範圍超前去做，這個部分政府是不允許的。"],["張委員啓楷：不只居民，全國民眾等一下就會跟你反映了……"],["郭部長智輝：我們非常同意。"],["張委員啓楷：這是人命關天的事情，一個公文拖延了一個禮拜，你還要幫他講話，而且現在是颱風的季節，要快一點啦！"],["郭部長智輝：我們是有做……"],["張委員啓楷：現在是跟時間在賽跑，在搶救人命啦！部長，不是只有這個案子，一樣在高雄，還有一個是在旗山區馬頭山，也是光電的開發，你看弊案這麼多，這個山是55公頃，比剛才說的還更嚴重，它還地處兩條活動斷層跟泥岩惡地之間，如果一開發，第一個，穿山甲、水鹿、朱鸝等稀有動物的棲息可能都受到波及，對地質的衝擊也非常大。部長，這個案子也要處理啦！","時間有限，我趕快做四個結論：第一個，部長，現在不要變成是踢皮球，高雄市政府說很多責任都在中央的內政部、經濟部跟農業部，因為是經濟部核准的，請做一件事情，把你們當初核定的範圍、土地數量跟總面積，還有把中央的責任跟地方的責任清清楚楚地釐清，好不好？這個文有到你那邊，對不對？第二個，山坡地的開發要更嚴格，目前這個規範，山坡地以前都沒有做環評，山坡地是不是另外要受到限制？要整體趕快好好來檢討，好不好？另外，這個案子一年光是營收可以賺大概4.2億，結果到目前為止，高雄市政府才裁罰108萬，能源署裁罰150萬，就像「蠓仔叮牛角」，這根本就沒有影響啊！對它來講，一年賺4.2億耶！你們這個裁罰太低了。我明確地要求，因為它有可能被你們撤銷，對不對？它還規定如果租期屆滿之後，這個土地還要復原，但那個山已經被他們剷平了，怎麼去復原？這個東西要好好去追究。","最後，我做一個要求，現在看起來山坡地不是只有剛剛講的這兩個案子，部長，你能答應我嗎？關於你們的光電推動裡面，如果也是山坡地的能不能一個月內提出一個整體的報告跟解決方案？"],["郭部長智輝：可以。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，一起搶救人命啦！真的要跟時間賽跑，高雄市的文這麼慢來，打個電話問一下，好不好？老實講，如果最近發生颱風、鬧出人命，我跟你說，這個不是行政責任，而是有刑事責任，好不好？我們跟時間賽跑，加油！"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們跟高雄市政府在上個禮拜就已經針對這個命題進入深度的研究，我們並沒有像你講的漠不關心，這一點我必須要在這個地方說明一下。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，若你有關心，速度為什麼這麼慢？一個禮拜……"],["郭部長智輝：有一些就是要法定規定啊！"],["張委員啓楷：高雄市政府都已經說……"],["郭部長智輝：我們將來可以來這個地方送一些修法請委員來幫忙啦！謝謝委員。"],["張委員啓楷：修法是在後面，現在趕快跟時間賽跑，一個禮拜真的太久了啦！"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員。"],["張委員啓楷：你們既然有聯絡，趕快加快速度，好不好？民眾都在等，跟時間賽跑、搶救人命，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","現在請鄭正鈐委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":396,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-17","speakers":["謝衣鳯","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","呂玉玲","邱志偉","陳超明","賴瑞隆","李坤城","蔡易餘","翁曉玲","葉元之","謝龍介","邱鎮軍","張嘉郡","徐欣瑩","邱議瑩","翁曉玲"],"page_start":337,"meetingDate":["2025-06-23"],"gazette_id":"1146401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146401_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、交通部首長及國家科學及技術委員會首長就「因應\n高齡化社會，我國智慧公共運具發展及目標」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146401_00007"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}