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還有花生經濟的效益其實沒有而且他是屬於輪貫的地區"},{"start":221.01,"end":250.2,"text":"休耕的地區已屬於大區輪輪班的第七地啊我現在常常遇到這個問題所以你們的規定是叫做國家重大建設但是高屋主委你們現在都在跟我講就是大溪谷計畫是國家重要政策喔這有點像你們不懂啊這文字遊戲我很怕你們都不承認啊"},{"start":253.852,"end":256.973,"text":"我現在要跟高副指揮報告的是說,頭尊堯大西谷計劃是賴總統的尊見行政院長、左院長去苗栗,我們苗栗你們要好好開發,苗栗才能繁榮進步"},{"start":280.899,"end":303.874,"text":"國安法會將大四股計畫視為114年到117年國家發展計畫發展的一個策略跟政策我現在要求行政院告訴我大四股計畫是國家的重大建設好像沒什麼人敢去答應"},{"start":305.199,"end":333.329,"text":"我覺得肩膀要硬一點你這有辦法幫我協調溝通嗎好把它合同為國家重大經濟的建設這樣我們就開始推動了啊副市長我這跟你講不然你來看看你問我們來行的他剛好在灌溉裡面我們叫做水尾田啦那都多死於沙地實在不適宜耕種了啊會讓位很多的資源在那一邊啊"},{"start":334.517,"end":344.445,"text":"我現在要拜託你行政院好像對於這一點比較不重視你可以去跟我們溝通我們只要是屬於國家重大的經濟建設"},{"start":347.011,"end":371.47,"text":"你這樣有了解嗎?我跟委員報告一下,國營關心的竹南、投奉還有後龍這個三個區域,的確是納在我們桃園桃竹苗大細股的推動方案竹南跟投奉是屬於科學園區,然後後龍的產業園區是屬於產業園區那分屬於國科衛跟經濟部,那的確竹委有答應委員我們會在兩個"},{"start":373.812,"end":378.398,"text":"禮拜裡面的協調因為不管是產業園區是科學園區的認定都是要由主管機關來做認定那我們會扮演中間協調的角色剛剛講到有關於後農的農業的這些農牧用地"},{"start":391.154,"end":419.393,"text":"特定農業用地應該是不是他要必須要符合農業用地的變更使用的審議作業規範的要點那基本上他只要屬於重大的國家重大的公務建設的話他都可以進行變更那這個我們會在那個審議這個會議裡面呢我們去協調農業部那我們基本上因為這些認定還是必須要主責單位來來做認定可是我們會全力的協調"},{"start":420.954,"end":435.37,"text":"你這樣子講有一點玩文字遊戲啊我以為沒有問題的你特種農業區一定要行政院行政院核大的國家重大建設他才要給你掛 我只要這幾億而已"},{"start":436.892,"end":460.791,"text":"你告訴我這個屬於國家重大建設計畫這樣我就好了這樣你有辦法去完成這個大計畫因為那還是屬於農業用地我某個程度上不是啦 這樣推來推去我站在這裡站到生意講幾十天這樣講幾個年了怎麼跟你們說呢我覺得因為主委已經答應兩個禮拜內要做協調那是屬於國各位的現在我是要行政院"},{"start":462.605,"end":482.31,"text":"因為我們裡面有一個法規規定如果你聽得好喔特種農業區要變更土地的話一定要行政院核准的重大監測我看那個法令有沒有規定沒有出來給你我現在是這樣你們聽得懂嗎"},{"start":487.918,"end":511.823,"text":"行政院合併的中大公共建設,它有益於它的行政程序?好啦,這樣說到簡單的,你們這本事實在是很後悔的啊你也是念法律系畢業的喔?我不是念法律系畢業,我是公務員做很久,知道一切都要依法行政我現在問你,大四股計畫,是國家重大的政策對不對?是的那它是國家重大的經濟建設嗎?"},{"start":514.775,"end":539.187,"text":"發大聲對我們滿懷的期待,要不然你們自己玩文字遊戲我怕了我怕了,不然我不會這個問題一直的嘛你不要笑,笑不能解決問題啊主委已經有說我們會全力協調可是所有的作業程序還是要依照行政程序來對付我敢敢你重大政策,大西谷計畫"},{"start":541.716,"end":565.962,"text":"從台中以北最重要的一個經濟經濟的最重要的一個建設你自己設政策我叫你給我肯定一下國家重大的經濟建設這樣而已你不要跟我談政策我們就了解我自己要的就是國家重大經濟建設這樣而已你給我發一個文來我們就交退下去不然我們會怕"},{"start":569.834,"end":593.783,"text":"你這樣到底聽得到嗎聽得到聽得到我會表達我會表達給我們主委知道要怎麼解決你上位機關啊你們是計畫你們推動的啊你這個政策是行政院核定的啊我現在要再進一步請行政院核定是屬於國家中大的"},{"start":597.28,"end":610.74,"text":"那個經濟計畫經濟建設這樣而已還是要用行政院合計我幾個月可以給我改革了好啦 多久我主委有說兩個禮拜包括這個 現在是講的是"},{"start":613.498,"end":625.866,"text":"這個講的農業部他在特種農業區所以一定要行政院核整國家重大建設他才好過不然給農業部推來推去推到腳都會軟"},{"start":627.862,"end":648.278,"text":"好不好 阿副處長你了解配合一下 拜託一下我們會配合行政院的中台的經濟建設我都要那幾年了 它就沒力了 國家重大出錯你這樣搞我搞得迷迷糊糊我們不打爛仗要推動經濟 補充對嗎 補充啊要推動經濟就是要腳踏實地對不對"},{"start":656.778,"end":680.989,"text":"我們非常贊同這個委員的指教我贊成你的指教好 你有什麼要告訴我我做委員支持你們的政策各方面的好不好謝謝委員我還有一點時間 中央銀行的在不在有在 原副總裁在這個哈林盟的中央銀行"},{"start":684.949,"end":711.777,"text":"委員好副總裁好現在大家匯率就跟你們有關係但是我一天吃飯有一個專家跟我說你要特別注意美國的什麼大額美法案對不對要說這一點裡面有一個金融科技法案他說美國的美債36兆它要轉化為虛擬貨幣"},{"start":715.762,"end":722.745,"text":"如果你要拿到虛擬貨幣的發債錢,要把他36兆的美債買來,買他的美債才能發行虛擬貨幣,有沒有這個事情嗎?目前...要恭喜這位喔!"},{"start":736.178,"end":755.938,"text":"他們最重要是在這一條啊美國財政部他希望他的穩定幣裡面有一塊是由他發的公債來支持啦但是這個都是還在發展中因為過去已經有了那只是說會不會想起會不會成為很大的規模其實其實因為我們美債那麼多"},{"start":758.58,"end":765.948,"text":"如果我們去把美在拿我們花零我們中華民國的那個新年貨幣等於之前的貨幣"},{"start":769.879,"end":793.984,"text":"那個鮑爾委員 這是兩個不同的問題啦對對對 我想到不同的問題美國人會做的 現在付這個多少錢就花虛擬貨幣把美債降低下來用虛擬貨幣在那邊轉啊他們說這個才是大生意啊這個是我們一直在關注的發展計劃如果有這樣 你要怎麼樣大家可能還沒有注意到大額美的法案他說最重要就是這一條"},{"start":795.224,"end":818.001,"text":"發行虛擬貨幣來美再來發行虛擬貨幣那個報告委員其實我們一直在關注不管是穩定幣或虛擬貨幣這些發展的情況那我想我們一直有在關注這個問題的未來的問題現在世界黨來黨去你來預估一下我們的匯率會升值到哪裡"},{"start":818.962,"end":837.162,"text":"那個報告委員我們的我們固定的答案就是我們看市場你固定的答案就是不能講要配合美國來動作啊沒有沒有沒有我們有自己的啦有擔當的啦那個報告委員匯率是由我們自己決是央行自己來參與市場的啊我從42塊"},{"start":839.741,"end":841.182,"text":"我們過去幾年我們也看到台幣其實它的波動幅度還蠻大的啦"},{"start":858.697,"end":884.269,"text":"到幾個啦 我自己要知道到幾個讓外銷進口的人有一點應用的測試啊這個報告委員 這個也要看那個國際美元的走勢是怎麼樣你看美國那個什麼美食比貨幣有多硬總統講的話不聽欸啊你這邊也要跟我們講一下大概給我們這些台灣是貿易國家嘛你大概我們貨率會貶值到大概多少錢啊"},{"start":885.322,"end":911.435,"text":"我們匯率,您是說升值還是貶值?沒有,沒辦法出口的就叫做升值,進口的要貶值,進口的要升值這個東西因為匯率它基本上有影響的因素有很多有國際的因素我剛才講過的國際美元的走勢"},{"start":913.896,"end":932.089,"text":"國內的這些進出口的表現都會影響到我看是由天不由人啦我們是隨波逐流啦跟著大概也會跟著沒有沒有那個報告委員因為我們是一個那個管理室的浮動匯率在必要的時候我們一直在維持匯率的相對穩定的現在大家都在反對這個問題他們一講不做事情就會虧損了很多錢啊連我們政府還好嗎"},{"start":943.646,"end":973.132,"text":"我們的競爭者也很多啊匯率是我們外銷最重要的一個工具啊所以維持匯率穩定一直是我們一直在做的事啊我是要問你一個答案你跟你們的總裁一樣手口如瓶稍微透露一下你在財政委員會可以稍微透露也在經濟委員會透露因為匯率跟台灣的經濟外銷產業是息息相關的大概多少"},{"start":974.195,"end":991.4,"text":"也就是因為它不完全是由我們自己單方面能夠預測或決定的所以它是一個蠻複雜的一個市場因素在主導那當然央行在必要的時候我們會維持匯率的穩定希望促進台灣產業的發展是"},{"start":993.76,"end":1007.11,"text":"我們外交還能很順利現在還沒有發生現在是搶後期等那個對等期限一到的話對等關稅期限一到的時候可能會有很大的變化要特別的注意謝謝謝謝委員指導好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":609,"blocks":[["陳委員超明：（11時24分）主席好，首先有請國發會高副主委。"],["主席：請高副主委。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：委員好。"],["陳委員超明：高副主委好。你是國發會最老的一個副主委……不是，是最有經驗、最有資歷的，不能講你老，這樣你們就會笑出來。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：完全同意委員的說法。"],["陳委員超明：我開始要拜託國發會，在上週我請教大矽谷計畫裡面有關於後龍產業科技園區主管機關的歸屬，現在劉主委也回復是經濟部，我們也視經濟部為中央目的事業主管機關；我這裡面還有兩個，就是竹南科學園區擴編的部分，劉主委也答應在兩週之內他會跟國科會來進行協調。所以在這裡我請我們最有經驗、最資深的高副主委，今天劉主委不在，但是我希望你記得他講的話，說兩週之內他一定會去協調一個進展來回復本席，這個幫我加油一下。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好。"],["陳委員超明：讓我們苗栗縣的大矽谷計畫能繼續推動，這都是我們苗栗縣所期待的事情，現在後龍產業園區的中央目的事業主管機關是屬於經濟部，這個也確定了，但是我們在研究之後發現問題大條了，因為後龍科技產業園區裡面有一個是特定農業區，農業部長在不在？因為農業部有時候很難溝通。"],["主席：請胡次長。"],["陳委員超明：好，今天來的是次長，我們一起來討論。"],["胡次長忠一：不會很難溝通。"],["陳委員超明：不是！你在旁邊仔細聽好，因為我這個問題要找國發會。"],["胡次長忠一：謝謝。"],["陳委員超明：農業部的立場就是特定農業區要變更使用的話，一定要經行政院核定計畫或公共建設所需計畫的用地，裡面有規定特定農業區要改變使用的話是屬於行政院核定，我現在遇到的問題是還沒有核定。胡次長最瞭解後龍科技產業園區就叫做水尾田，部長和我大概比較曉得，我不曉得你曉不曉得，水尾田就是以前我們在灌溉的時候都要巡田水，我都經歷過這個階段，很早很早以前這一塊就農地重劃了，現在大家都在種花生、西瓜，其實沒有經濟效益，而且它是屬於輪灌地區、休耕地區，它是屬於大區輪灌地區，我現在常常遇到這個問題。所以你們的規定是國家重大建設，但是高副主委，你們現在都跟我說大矽谷計畫是國家重要政策，我有時候會被你們搞亂，這個是文字遊戲，我很怕你們都不承認。黃處長，你跟他報告我們有協調過了。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好。"],["陳委員超明：我現在要跟高副主委報告，桃竹苗大矽谷計畫是賴總統的政見，行政院卓院長也去苗栗鼓勵我們要好好開發，苗栗才能繁榮進步，國發會還將大矽谷計畫視為114年到117年國家發展計畫的策略和政策，我現在要求行政院核定大矽谷計畫是國家重大建設，好像沒什麼人敢答應，我覺得肩膀要硬一點，你有辦法幫我協調溝通嗎？把它核定為國家重大經濟建設，這樣我們就開始推動下去，胡次長，我跟你說不然你來看看，你也是內行的，它剛好在灌溉裡面我們叫做水尾田，都屬於沙地，實在不適宜耕種，會浪費很多資源在那一邊。我現在要拜託你們，因為行政院好像對於這一點比較不重視，你可以去幫我們溝通嗎？我們只要是屬於國家重大經濟建設，你這樣有瞭解嗎？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好，我跟委員報告一下，委員關心的竹南、頭份及後龍這三個區域，的確是納在我們桃竹苗大矽谷的推動方案，竹南和頭份是屬於科學園區，後龍產業園區是屬於產業園區，分屬於國科會和經濟部。的確，主委有答應委員，我們會在兩個禮拜裡面協調，因為不管產業園區或是科學園區的認定都是要由主管機關來做認定，我們會扮演中間協調的角色。剛剛講到有關於後龍的特定農牧用地必須要符合農業用地變更使用的審議作業規範要點，基本上，它只要屬於國家重大公共建設的話，就可以進行變更，我們會在審議會議裡面去協調農業部，基本上，因為這些認定還是必須要主責單位來做認定，可是我們會全力的協調。"],["陳委員超明：沒有，你這樣子講有一點玩文字遊戲，我以為沒有問題了。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我們會全力……"],["陳委員超明：特種農業區一定要行政院核定的國家重大建設才會通過，我只要這幾個字而已，你跟我這個屬於國家重大建設計畫，這樣就好了，你有辦法完成這個事情嗎？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：因為那還是屬於農業用地，我們某個程度上還是要尊重農業部……"],["陳委員超明：不是，你們這樣推來推去，我站在這裡站到腳痠，已經講了好幾年了，我跟你們講……"],["高副主任委員仙桂：委員，因為主委已經答應兩個禮拜內要做協調。"],["陳委員超明：那是屬於國科會的，現在我是要求行政院，因為裡面有一個法規規定，你聽好……"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我知道。"],["陳委員超明：特種農業區要變更土地的話，一定要行政院核准的重大建設，那個法令不知道在第幾條，我沒有帶過來，現在就是這個樣子，你們聽得懂嗎？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好，行政院核定的重大公共建設有一定行政程序，還是要尊重農業部……"],["陳委員超明：這樣講會簡單一點，你們這些官員實在很浪費時間，你也唸法律系畢業的喔？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我不是唸法律系畢業，因為我公務員做很久了，我知道一切都要依法行政。"],["陳委員超明：我現在問你，大矽谷計畫是國家重大的政策，對不對？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是的。"],["陳委員超明：它是國家重大的經濟建設嗎？不然喊得那麼大聲，我們滿懷期待，到最後你們卻玩文字遊戲，我怕了！我怕了！不然我不會一再問這個問題。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：委員，我們一切……"],["陳委員超明：你不要笑喔！笑不能解決問題啊！"],["高副主任委員仙桂：主委已經有說我們會全力協調，可是所有的作業程序還是要依照行政程序來做。"],["陳委員超明：很簡單，重大政策大矽谷計畫，從臺中以北最重要的經濟建設，你們是寫政策，我要你給我肯定一下是國家重大經濟建設，這樣而已，你不要跟我談政策，我們都瞭解，我只要「國家重大經濟建設」這幾個字，你發一個文來，我們就照這樣推動下去，不然我們會怕，你到底聽不聽得懂？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：聽得懂、聽得懂，我會表達給我們主委知道，我們會去協調。"],["陳委員超明：要怎麼解決？你是上位機關，這個計畫是你們推動的，這個政策是行政院核定的，我現在要再進一步請行政院核定是屬於國家重大經濟建設，這樣而已。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：那個還是要行政院核定。"],["陳委員超明：多久可以幫我解決，要多久？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我們主委有說兩個禮拜會協調。"],["陳委員超明：包括我上次講的是國科會，這個講的是農業部的，它在特種農業區，所以一定要行政院核定國家重大建設，才好通過，不然農業部推來推去，推到腳都會軟，好不好？胡次長，你也瞭解，配合一下，跟你們拜託一下。"],["胡次長忠一：我們會配合行政院的重大經濟建設。"],["陳委員超明：我就要那幾個字而已啊！它就沒有下來，只有說國家重大政策，你這樣把我搞得迷迷糊糊，我們不必打爛帳。部長在不在？部長，要推動經濟就是要腳踏實地，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：我們非常贊同委員的指教。"],["陳委員超明：啊？"],["郭部長智輝：我贊成你的指教。"],["陳委員超明：好！你也要幫我一起背書，我也很支持你們的政策、各方面，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員超明：再給我一點時間，中央銀行在不在？"],["主席：在！顏副總裁在！"],["陳委員超明：很少問到中央銀行。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：委員好。"],["陳委員超明：副總裁好。現在匯率就跟你們有關係，我那天吃飯，有一位專家跟我說要特別注意美國的大而美法案，這個裡面有一個金融科技法案，他說美國的美債36兆要轉換為虛擬貨幣，如果想要拿到虛擬貨幣的發債權，需要將36兆的美債買來，才能發行虛擬貨幣，真的有這件事情嗎？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：目前美國財政部……"],["陳委員超明：你要說實在話喔！他們說最重要是在這一條啊！"],["嚴副總裁宗大：美國財政部希望穩定幣裡面有一塊是由他發的公債來支持，但是這個都還在發展中，因為過去已經有了，只是會不會成為很大的規模，其實因為這個大而美……"],["陳委員超明：我們美債那麼多，如果我們去把美債拿來發行中華民國的虛擬貨幣，等於紙錢的貨幣欸！"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，這是兩個不同的問題啦！"],["陳委員超明：對、對，我曉得是不同的問題。美國人在做的，他們負債那麼多，現在發行虛擬貨幣，把美債降低下來，用虛擬貨幣在那邊轉啊！他們說這個才是大生意啊！"],["嚴副總裁宗大：這個是我們一直在關注的發展情況。"],["陳委員超明：你關注是懷疑，如果是這樣，你要怎麼做？大家可能還沒有注意到大而美法案，他說最重要就是這一條發行虛擬貨幣，買美債來發行虛擬貨幣。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，其實我們一直在關注，不管是穩定幣或虛擬貨幣發展的情況，我們一直有在關注這個議題未來的問題。"],["陳委員超明：現在世界打來打去，你來預估一下，我們匯率會升值到哪裡？25還是26？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，我們固定的答案就是看匯率市場……"],["陳委員超明：你固定的答案就是不能講，要配合美國來動作啊？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：沒有、沒有，我們有……"],["陳委員超明：要有志氣一點、要有擔當一點啦！我跟你講，被美國的吃掉，你都不曉得喔！"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，匯率是由央行自己來參與市場。"],["陳委員超明：我從1塊美金兌42塊臺幣，我做生意，做1塊美金兌27塊，我不敢做了。經過幾十年，現在臺灣的實力比較堅強，降到幾塊還能承受得了？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：過去幾年我們也看到臺幣的波動幅度還滿大的。"],["陳委員超明：到幾塊啦？我只想要知道大概到幾塊，讓那些做外銷、進口的人有一點因應措施。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，這個也要看國際美元的走勢是怎麼樣。"],["陳委員超明：你看美國主管貨幣的有多硬，總統講的話不聽欸！你這邊也要跟我們講一下，臺灣是貿易國家嘛！"],["嚴副總裁宗大：是。"],["陳委員超明：我們匯率會貶值到大概多少錢啦？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：您是說升值，還是貶值？"],["陳委員超明：沒有，我不知道，出口的叫升值，進口的……"],["嚴副總裁宗大：出口的要貶值，進口的要升值。"],["陳委員超明：你說一下嘛！"],["嚴副總裁宗大：因為匯率基本上影響的因素有很多，有國際的因素，如我剛才講過的國際美元的走勢，還有國內進出口的表現都會影響到。"],["陳委員超明：我看是由天不由人啦！我們是隨波逐流，大概也會跟著日本走。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：沒有、沒有。報告委員，因為我們是管理式的浮動匯率，在必要時，我們一直在維持匯率的相對穩定。"],["陳委員超明：現在大家都在煩惱這個問題，他們一講，不做事情就會虧損很多錢，政府要好好處理這件事……"],["嚴副總裁宗大：有啦，那個……"],["陳委員超明：我們的競爭者也很多，匯率是我們外銷最重要的工具。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：所以維持匯率穩定是我們一直在做的事。"],["陳委員超明：我想要跟你問個答案，但你回答不出來，你跟你們的總裁一樣，守口如瓶，你在財政委員會可以稍微透露，也在經濟委員會透露，因為匯率跟臺灣的經濟、外銷、產業是息息相關，大概是多少？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：是！也就是因為它不完全由我們自己單方面能夠預測或決定的，所以它是一個滿複雜、由市場因素在主導，當然央行在必要的時候，我們會維持匯率的穩定。"],["陳委員超明：希望能促進臺灣產業的發展，我們外銷還能很順利，現在還沒有發生，現在是搶貨期，等對等關稅期限一到，可能會有很大的變化，要特別注意，謝謝。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：是、是，謝謝委員指導。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["主席（陳委員超明代）：請謝衣鳯委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":464,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-17","speakers":["謝衣鳯","鄭正鈐","林岱樺","張嘉郡","張啓楷","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱志偉","陳超明","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","劉書彬","涂權吉","徐欣瑩","葉元之","蔡易餘","呂玉玲","邱議瑩","牛煦庭"],"page_start":397,"meetingDate":["2025-06-25"],"gazette_id":"1146401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146401_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長、農業部部長及中央銀行首長就「因應國際經貿情勢\n變化，如何協助我國產業面對台幣匯率及國際能源價格遽變」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146401_00008"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}