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請陳部長跟鄭董事長好 來 陳部長台鐵鄭董事長委員好 部長早 鄭董事長早安鄭董事長是新上任 跟石澤董事長是一起上任董事長"},{"start":30.407,"end":57.847,"text":"這董事長我覺得好像部長比較器重你這個台鐵啊問題比較多所以看起來部長應該是更器重你比史哲董事長所以才會任命你擔任那個比較艱困工作的董事長你有沒有這樣的感覺台鐵的系統確實相對高鐵是比較複雜一點對很複雜喔部長那個部長知道很複雜喔董事長你有沒有做好準備"},{"start":59.758,"end":70.465,"text":"你有沒有想說把高鐵很多比較好的制度或者是好的管理能夠把它帶到台鐵去"},{"start":70.959,"end":88.348,"text":"是的 我也朝這方向那我舉一些例子 台鐵的問題很多啦如果你有在關注立法院對台鐵的監督 你就可以知道這個委員的意見是相當的多啦我舉幾個例子 第一個我們來看一下你們台鐵的那個閘門"},{"start":94.392,"end":119.319,"text":"這個閘門這個是我個人認為是要有相當智慧的旅客才有辦法使用的閘門這個閘門舊式的最早的那個票投進去往前走會跳出來那個那個叫備詞就背後有詞 詞帖那個備詞車票那個口還在那董事長你知道這個票台帖現在還賣不賣"},{"start":121.776,"end":148.473,"text":"現在我們已經都改成QR Code了對 這個已經沒有這種票了 是的但那個還在啦但沒關係 他就留著反正他可能是一個紀念吧 或者是你們有什麼歷史情懷我們意見啦那第二個我們有QR Code的掃描位置是第三個我們有悠遊卡一卡通包括我們交通部T Pass感應的位置那個董事長知道啦我知道 好"},{"start":149.278,"end":171.172,"text":"那這三者之間啊這個對旅客來講很複雜譬如說像我們長期坐高鐵的人而言我們就會到現場的時候要感應的時候會兩個位置常常不一定會感應對嘛因為此卡的位置跟QR code的位置是不同的董事長這些"},{"start":172.418,"end":191.731,"text":"我知道你們好像有發新的這個計畫要不要先說明一下讓所有大家知道說像這種門面要開始搭乘台鐵的這個列車的時候這個入口的門面的這個感覺我們什麼時候這個計畫大概要怎麼做"},{"start":194.321,"end":218.084,"text":"這樣的一個QR Code的宣傳確實我們要強化那也會用圖案告訴我們的旅客但是最重要的我們可能要告訴我們所有的站務人員那麼怎麼樣來在最短的時間解釋給我們的旅客來做對對對 短期還沒有改之前可以請站務同仁解釋但是"},{"start":219.332,"end":233.285,"text":"你們應該在更換整個系統上面我看到好像我們有決定要分批來更換要 117年以前整個換裝完畢明年開始換嗎 還是今年開始換"},{"start":235.527,"end":258.232,"text":"今年年底就開始了 開始更換 逐批更換換到117年全部都是新的統一的系統這門門很要緊 那個體驗的感覺不好就對台鐵的評價就會低嘛 董事長這日的高鐵很少高鐵的滿意度會高是因為旅客普遍搭乘的體驗感覺是好的"},{"start":259.152,"end":287.089,"text":"這個其實是很重要的那也因為這個感應的問題台鐵的你要輔導的時候這個員工都還曾經跟旅客因為不知道在哪裡感應吵架的也有啦這個我等一下再跟你談那譬如說我再舉例像那個台中跟豐原站這兩個火車站都是大站那個電子看板從116年開始掛上去壞了之後到今天大概這樣幾年七八年了吧"},{"start":288.135,"end":313.341,"text":"2016不好意思2016年開始那也大概時間很長了那台中站就直接用看板把那個電子看板用一般的看板把電子看板蓋住董事長這個為什麼我們不使用它是說它是有什麼問題不好用還是因為我們沒有錢維修還是什麼問題"},{"start":315.97,"end":344.108,"text":"跟委員報告 這個我們還是要發包來維修那現在目前我們在爭取這個經費之中董事長 我的意思是說2016年到現在 你如果說在去年或是前幾月派去說你在爭取預算我不能夠理解是2016年沒有使用到今天掛在那裡已經掛了那麼久了這什麼原因啊"},{"start":344.724,"end":345.005,"text":"我請我們總經理來"},{"start":348.393,"end":375.099,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在目前處置就是現在已經購辦簽合已經在簽了就是要找到錢現在我們馬上就會來發包來進行改善那過去的原因主要是因為這個台中鐵路高架化是105年鐵道局蓋完以後點交給我們那點交完了以後這個部分確實有故障情形所以我們還要跟鐵道局因為原來還在他保固期間內"},{"start":376.159,"end":387.843,"text":"但是那個廠商在後續的維修上面一直沒有積極的處理所以我們現在目前 鐵道局要不要來講一下這看起來好像你們的事情來 楊局長就是說這太離譜了吧 2016年到今天現在在這裡說要爭取預算"},{"start":396.997,"end":424.302,"text":"包委員這個我們回去檢討一下好不好坦白說因為我們計畫已經結束了是不是還有這個問題我知道還有這個問題我們再跟台鐵公司一起來共同解決好啦這個齁這樣子啦齁2016年到現在為什麼他會放在那裡這個我很難理解啦你如果說沒有預算那隔年應該有因為他就是門面嘛我們要買票齁要買票的窗口的上面"},{"start":425.424,"end":449.222,"text":"的那個電子看板不能使用就一直擺在那裡不能使用那如果它是壞的那我們是不是如果說它是這個系統不對我們不能用是不是應該就把它拆了嘛因為你可以做其他的廣告也可以啊廣告賣錢什麼都好啊總不能擺一個壞的東西從2016年壞了擺到今天為止它還擺在那裡"},{"start":450.263,"end":469.63,"text":"部長這個我覺得應該要檢討報告委員我剛剛也請鐵道局一定要檢討因為當時這樣聽起來是兩個界面的問題鐵道局做好之後交給台鐵那鐵道局當時的廠商做得不好但後續的追溯鐵道局有沒有做我請楊局長去查清楚這個一定要查清楚再來現在已經全部都是台鐵負責"},{"start":470.47,"end":491.92,"text":"那台鐵對於這麼重要的一個資訊提供的地方那個地方因為大家購票所以上面不會不重要 一定是重要的這個要趕快去把它做好現在我們快速把它維修也好 或者換新的也好趕快把它做好 就檢討的部分我就授權因為今天我在這裡問 我也問不出你來啦你事後把一個檢討報告給我這很離譜 這對我來說實在是很難我請鐵道局馬上提供這個檢討這很離譜的啦"},{"start":500.029,"end":524.431,"text":"那個鄭董事長你站在經營高鐵那麼多年的角度這個在你們高鐵這個是你說實在話你不會覺得荒謬跟離譜不應該嘛對不對資訊系統永遠是一個非常重要與國溝通的事件那不是在北港如果這是北港的資訊系統那就是說因為看的人少大家有主要的看板可以看阿他的位置齁你看"},{"start":525.651,"end":553.93,"text":"他的位置就是在那個最門面的地方你說這樣台鐵要怎麼滿意都要怎麼管這台鐵要怎麼大家覺得這是可信任的所以我說你很要緊啦我看部長比較介意你所以才會叫你去做這個工作我說的都不是很複雜的啦我們要檢討高鐵都是很細微很細緻的問題因為他大致的方向大家都滿意所以大家能問高鐵的事情"},{"start":554.79,"end":581.623,"text":"其實都是比較不是這個可能是長遠的發展啊不是結構性的問題但你今天要接手的是結構性的問題各位很報告現在這個案子已經準備在發包要結標那年底前會結標那我們一定在明年年中應該是在看看能不能在年中前能夠把這個案子能夠把它做好好啦我今天來其實不是在指責我只是點出"},{"start":582.603,"end":604.785,"text":"我是隨便抓的啦 如果要把過去的事情 到今天還沒有做好的台鐵怎麼在運量上面 台鐵的歷史厚度這個有百年歷史的台鐵 它不只可以賣運輸啊 它可以賣文化它可以賣的東西很多 所以台鐵的營收還要講便當 那又要講很久啦 所以"},{"start":605.706,"end":631.923,"text":"這些東西需要一個有能力的董事長來好好的把它徵我今天來只是提醒說台鐵你要做的工作很多你任重道遠你要做的工作很多那另外台鐵的士氣員工啊你也要想辦法建立起一套這個員工的這個制度你看現在員工很辛苦嘛我剛剛講入票口因為旅客不知怎麼使用"},{"start":632.663,"end":659.474,"text":"所以就跟戰務人員產生衝突雙方不開心 甚至戰務員還辱罵那表示戰務同仁可能壓力真的很大那另外你看多少我們台鐵的員工要常常還要練身體因為人家拿刀的啦 要扭打的啦查票過程裡面口角衝突 甚至全副武裝的這個在台鐵我們幾乎很少看到這樣的新聞"},{"start":661.127,"end":681.588,"text":"高鐵我們幾乎很少看到台鐵最多一天還有兩三則兩三個案例這個比例實在太驚人了所以員工的士氣一定有問題那怎麼去保護員工怎麼去讓員工在心理輔導上面怎麼去協助讓這個在繁忙的工作底下可以怎麼樣去做"},{"start":682.088,"end":700.872,"text":"因為只有快樂的員工他才能夠善待所有的旅客這些都環環相扣啦所以不是只有硬體喔軟體硬體跟軟體台鐵都是百廢待興啦是謝謝委員指導這個友善職場我們要再努力好不好所以我今天來是要讓你了解說這個任務不簡單啦"},{"start":705.073,"end":731.625,"text":"背負的責任很重大因為你在高鐵一定有很好的成績保證才會看到你的長才讓你來這裡因為在我的心目當中史哲董事長是非常有能力非常優秀的人那他竟然只能當到高鐵董事長當不了台鐵董事長所以我才會覺得部長一定覺得你的能力比史哲董事長更好所以呢我對你有很高的期許"},{"start":732.91,"end":733.653,"text":"謝謝委員 指教我會盡力做"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":567,"blocks":[["蔡委員其昌：（11時38分）謝謝主席，請陳部長跟鄭董事長。"],["主席：陳部長、臺鐵鄭董事長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["蔡委員其昌：部長早、鄭董事長早安。"],["鄭董事長光遠：委員好。"],["蔡委員其昌：鄭董事長是新上任，跟史哲董事長一起上任董事長，鄭董事長，我覺得好像部長比較器重你，臺鐵問題比較多，所以看起來部長應該是更器重你，比史哲董事長，所以才會任命你擔任比較艱困工作的董事長，你有沒有這樣的感覺？"],["鄭董事長光遠：臺鐵的系統確實相對高鐵是比較複雜一點。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，很複雜，部長知道很複雜。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：董事長，你有沒有做好準備？"],["鄭董事長光遠：有。"],["蔡委員其昌：你有沒有想說把高鐵很多比較好的制度或者是好的管理帶到臺鐵去？"],["鄭董事長光遠：是的，我會朝這個方向。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，我舉一些例子，臺鐵的問題很多，如果你有在關注立法院對臺鐵的監督，你就可以知道委員的意見是相當多，我舉幾個例子，第一個，我們來看一下臺鐵的閘門，我個人認為要有相當智慧的旅客才有辦法使用的閘門，這個閘門，舊式的、最早的票投進去，往前走會跳出來那個，那個叫背磁，就背後有磁鐵的背磁車票，那個口還在，董事長，臺鐵現在還賣不賣這個票？"],["鄭董事長光遠：現在我們已經都改成QR Code了。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，已經沒有這種票了，但那個還在啦！沒關係，它就留著，反正它可能是一個紀念吧！或者是你們有什麼歷史情懷，我沒意見。第二個，有QR Code的掃描位置。第三個，有悠遊卡、一卡通，包括交通部TPASS感應的位置。董事長，知道啦？"],["鄭董事長光遠：我知道。"],["蔡委員其昌：這三者之間對旅客來講很複雜，譬如說像我們長期坐高鐵的人而言，我們到現場要感應的時候，兩個位置常常不一定會感應對，因為磁卡位置跟QR Code位置是不同的，董事長，這些我知道你們好像有新的計畫，要不要先說明一下，讓大家知道要開始搭乘臺鐵列車的時候入口門面的感覺，你們這個計畫大概要怎麼做？"],["鄭董事長光遠：對這樣的QR Code宣傳，確實我們要強化，也會用圖樣告訴我們的旅客，但是最重要的，我們可能要告訴所有站務人員怎麼樣在最短的時間解釋給旅客來做。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，短期還沒有改之前，可以請站務同仁解釋，但是你們應該在更換整個系統上面……我看到好像你們有決定要分批來更換？"],["鄭董事長光遠：要，117年以前整個換裝完畢。"],["蔡委員其昌：明年開始換還是今年開始換？"],["鄭董事長光遠：今年年底就開始了。"],["蔡委員其昌：開始更換，逐批更換，換到117年，全部都是新的、統一的系統。"],["鄭董事長光遠：是的。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，門面很重要，體驗的感覺不好對臺鐵的評價就會低嘛！董事長，這你在高鐵很了解，高鐵的滿意度會高是因為旅客普遍搭乘的體驗感覺是好的，這個其實是很重要的。","那也因為這個感應的問題，臺鐵要輔導的時候，員工都還曾經跟旅客因為不知道在哪裡感應吵架的也有，這個我等一下再跟你談，譬如說，我再舉例像臺中站跟豐原站這兩個火車站都是大站，電子看板從116年開始掛上去，壞了之後到今天大概已經七、八年了吧！2016年啦！不好意思，2016年開始，那也大概時間很長了，臺中站就直接用一般的看板把電子看板蓋住，董事長，為什麼你們不使用它？它是有什麼問題？不好用還是因為你們沒有錢維修、還是什麼問題？"],["鄭董事長光遠：跟委員報告，這個我們還是要發包來維修，現在我們在爭取這個經費之中。"],["蔡委員其昌：不，董事長，我的意思是說2016年到現在，如果是去年壞掉還是上個月壞掉，說你在爭取預算，但我不能夠理解的是2016年沒有使用到今天，掛在那裡已經掛了那麼久了，這什麼原因？"],["鄭董事長光遠：好，我請我們總經理來跟委員報告。"],["蔡委員其昌：總經理，來。"],["馮總經理輝昇：跟委員報告，我們目前的處置就是購辦簽核已經在簽了，就是要找到錢，我們馬上就會發包來進行改善，那過去……"],["蔡委員其昌：對，過去的原因是什麼？"],["馮總經理輝昇：過去的原因主要是因為臺中鐵路高架化是105年鐵道局蓋完以後點交給我們，點交完了以後，這個部分確實有故障情形，原來還在它保固期間內，但是廠商在後續的維修上面一直沒有積極處理，所以我們現在自己要來辦理。"],["蔡委員其昌：鐵道局要不要來講一下？這看起來好像是你們的事情。"],["主席：楊局長。"],["蔡委員其昌：就是說這太離譜了吧！2016年到今天，現在在這裡跟我說要爭取預算。"],["楊局長正君：報告委員，這個我們回去檢討一下，好不好？坦白說，因為我們計畫已經結束了，是不是還有這個問題……"],["馮總經理輝昇：現在我們自己來辦。"],["楊局長正君：我知道。","還有這個問題我們再跟臺鐵公司一起來共同解決。"],["蔡委員其昌：好啦！這個這樣子啦！2016年到現在，為什麼它會放在那裡？這個我很難理解，如果說沒有預算，隔年應該有，因為它就是門面嘛！我們要買票，買票窗口上面的電子看板不能使用，一直擺在那裡不能使用，如果它是壞的，如果說是這個系統不對、不能用，是不是應該就把它拆了嘛！因為你可以做其他的，廣告也可以，廣告賣錢，什麼都好，總不能擺一個壞的東西，從2016年壞了，到今天為止還擺在那裡，部長，這個我覺得應該要檢討。"],["陳部長世凱：是，報告委員，這個我剛剛也請鐵道局一定要檢討，因為這樣聽起來當時是兩個介面的問題，鐵道局做好之後交給臺鐵，鐵道局當時的廠商做得不好，但後續的追溯鐵道局有沒有做，我請楊局長去查清楚，這個一定要查清楚。再來，現在已經全部都是臺鐵負責，那臺鐵對於這麼重要的資訊提供的地方，那個地方因為大家購票，所以上面不會不重要，一定是重要的，這個要趕快把它做好，現在我們快速把它維修也好，或者換新的也好，趕快把它做好。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，就檢討的部分我就授權，因為今天我在這裡問，我也問不出來，你事後把檢討報告給我。"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["蔡委員其昌：這很離譜，這對我來說實在是很誇張！拖那麼久……"],["陳部長世凱：我請鐵道局馬上提供這個檢討……"],["蔡委員其昌：放在那裡都沒有在動，這很離譜！"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒有錯、沒有錯。"],["蔡委員其昌：鄭董事長，你站在經營高鐵那麼多年的角度，這個在你們高鐵，你說實在話，你不會覺得荒謬跟離譜？"],["鄭董事長光遠：不應該啦！"],["蔡委員其昌：不應該嘛！對不對？"],["鄭董事長光遠：旅客資訊系統永遠是一個非常重要的，跟旅客溝通的……"],["蔡委員其昌：沒有錯嘛。"],["鄭董事長光遠：這個事情……"],["蔡委員其昌：又不是在牆角，如果這是牆角的資訊系統，那就說因為看的人少，大家有主要的看板可以看，它的位置，你看就是在最門面的地方，你說這樣臺鐵的滿意度怎麼會高，臺鐵要怎麼讓大家覺得是可信任的，董事長，所以我說你很重要啦！我覺得部長比較喜歡你，所以才會叫你去做這些工作，我說的都不是很複雜的，我們要檢討高鐵都是很細微、很細緻的問題，因為它大致的方向大家都滿意，所以大家問高鐵的事情其實都比較可能是長遠的發展，不是結構性的問題，但你今天要接手的是結構性的問題。"],["鄭董事長光遠：跟委員報告，現在這個案子已經準備在發包要決標，年底前會決標，我們預定在明年年中，看看能不能在年中前把這個案子做好。"],["蔡委員其昌：好啦！我今天來其實不是在指責，我只是點出、只是隨便抓的，如果要把過去的事情到今天還沒有做好的，臺鐵怎麼在運量上面……臺鐵的歷史厚度，有百年歷史的臺鐵，它不只可以賣運輸，它可以賣文化，它可以賣的東西很多，因此臺鐵的營收，還要講便當又要講很久，所以這些東西需要一個有能力的董事長來好好的把它整頓，我今天來只是提醒臺鐵，你任重道遠，你要做的工作很多。","另外，臺鐵員工的士氣，你也要想辦法建立起一套員工的制度，你看現在員工很辛苦，我剛剛講入票口因為旅客不知怎麼使用，所以就跟站務人員產生衝突，雙方不高興，甚至站務員還辱罵，那表示站務同仁可能壓力真的很大。另外，你看多少臺鐵的員工常常還要練身體，因為人家拿刀的、要扭打的，查票過程裡面口角衝突，甚至全副武裝的，這個在高鐵我們幾乎很少看到這樣的新聞，臺鐵最多一天還有兩、三則，兩、三個案例耶，這個比例實在太驚人了，所以員工的士氣一定有問題，怎麼去保護員工？在心理輔導上面怎麼去協助？在繁忙的工作底下可以怎麼樣去做？因為只有快樂的員工，他才能夠善待所有的旅客，這些都環環相扣，所以不是只有硬體，硬體跟軟體，臺鐵都是百廢待興。"],["鄭董事長光遠：是，謝謝委員指導，友善職場我們要再努力。"],["蔡委員其昌：好不好？"],["鄭董事長光遠：好。"],["蔡委員其昌：所以我今天來是要讓你了解這個任務不簡單，背負的責任很重大，因為你在高鐵一定有很好的成績，部長才會看到你的長才，讓你來這裡，因為在我的心目中，史哲董事長是非常有能力、非常優秀的人，他竟然只能當到高鐵董事長，當不了臺鐵董事長，所以我才會覺得部長一定覺得你的能力比史哲董事長更好，所以我對你有很高的期許，好不好？請加油。"],["鄭董事長光遠：謝謝委員的指教，我會盡力做。"],["蔡委員其昌：好。"],["主席：謝謝蔡其昌副院長。","現在請王義川委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":370,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-17","speakers":["林國成","李昆澤","黃國昌","黃健豪","陳素月","何欣純","徐富癸","魯明哲","洪孟楷","林俊憲","蔡其昌","王義川","陳雪生","邱若華","林月琴","陳俊宇","黃建賓","張雅琳","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","王美惠","許智傑","葉元之","游顥","楊瓊瓔","邱鎮軍","廖先翔"],"page_start":301,"meetingDate":["2025-06-25"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00013"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部部長、交通部鐵道局局長、交通部觀光署署長、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長及\n台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長率所屬相關單位列席就「交通部觀光署、國營臺灣鐵路股份有\n限公司及台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司人事調整及新任首長之業務展望」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146201_00014"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}