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以我的價值去付出"},{"start":86.22,"end":90.787,"text":"現在最近接到的,不是說跟人家吵架,還是請好,還是怎樣接到的逮捕人都是給詐騙集團賠你啦"},{"start":98.476,"end":101.177,"text":"在這個過程當中,本身也覺得說,你如果騙,他沒有所得,跟你他自己的性命,他的運動,還可以檢慶,我認為這樣是不應該的,最無稽罵,他要在場,被騙的人,我良好感"},{"start":121.906,"end":130.549,"text":"這才是最主要的 才會發動好主 才會做壞事的人 邀請請求的人在這個過程當中 我來請教你們三單位 今年的五位大法官的視線會說這樣的時候你們兩位是不是要再加強什麼問題 來 請 署長你先發表意見"},{"start":150.057,"end":159.801,"text":"我聽林董委員你的意見,就是你去犯這個罪,你應該要遵守這個相關的懲罰,所以我們那個責任條例,這次我們法務部也提出說,我們要把他這個犯罪所得收掉,該做,以說"},{"start":169.172,"end":198.056,"text":"詐騙的這個財務,手持的財務,你如果要去他執行或者是民主期刑,你得到的就是賠償他的這個犯罪所得或是教育、福祉,剛才你說的這個,才可以去做這樣的一個行為,所以我們現在也是在對於委員所提的這個責任方案的修正的部分,我們也很尊重委員所提的這個修正的方案"},{"start":198.977,"end":201.003,"text":"因為蘇貞本來會跟你說探討這個問題說實在的我覺得最近也好"},{"start":207.557,"end":227.594,"text":"半天一天也好,一天一天也好, 我覺得我們的單位,說實在的,都非常認真, 但是這邊的一團來說,他的想法,他要扮演的,的手段越來越先進,本身在這裡,還沒有這順序, 不是你們單純想說,現在又來扮演,會怎樣,首長,"},{"start":235.72,"end":240.244,"text":"最近你看會變的手段都不一樣對,會變來變去以前說你走,你走到我這裡你要來捏回去嗎現在不是這樣現在有很多方法像現在經紀,國標他會用一個專家會分析人國標的時候在內裡的成立專責這樣說實在"},{"start":264.07,"end":270.553,"text":"要再加強我們的單位來我們這裡 法官來講出剛才本市所說的有什麼意見來委員好報告委員您剛剛講的應該是那個最高法院大法庭的見解對那大法庭基本上是對於這個法律不同"},{"start":286.141,"end":290.487,"text":"不同的意見做一個統一見解我們尊重大法院的見解因為你們的單位我本身在這裡跟你們說這個條款的時候你們有什麼意見沒有啦"},{"start":303.303,"end":320.736,"text":"因為每一個的意見 大家可以做參考嘛像我 我就不認同啊跟你 你是認同說 主要一組修就好不用把受害者 覆蓋這樣就可以了嗎我是要問你的意見就尊重貴院委員的修法 以權責機關的意見"},{"start":329.606,"end":343.742,"text":"在討論主條或者是討論法條的時候我們也會適時表達我們的意見基本上原則上尊重修法的整個過程好來來我們正式有什麼意見來委員好"},{"start":344.244,"end":350.267,"text":"因為現在這個問題是犯罪措諜這個問題解說和見解大概不一樣啦依照這個大法庭的見解變成說彼此自白犯罪我沒所得還是說我只是一千塊而已這高材料就可以減刑解說有這種不一樣的結果所以我們現在為了要避免所以我們現在要..."},{"start":372.177,"end":393.05,"text":"說補泡泡也可以我們就把這個補起來就是說你一定要填補被害人的損失以後我們要和解調解履行以後我們才能夠取得原量才能夠得減輕期刑用這樣子把它補起來的話就不會再造成現在的結果因為謝謝大家互相的意見在這裡本身要說的就是說因為有時候我們抓到的"},{"start":400.134,"end":401.715,"text":"是最好的那個車手他的集團裡面騙很多也騙很多但是他的車手"},{"start":410.592,"end":417.316,"text":"我告訴你,本來就不可以賺這麼多錢,還在想要讓我們這間餐廳領到他說什麼?他沒有所得,不然我們不可以因為他沒有所得,他來自首,他來自白,又可以檢驗他,這樣加判他就大事了在現在年輕的當中,在這兩三年,年輕人的所謂法律"},{"start":440.049,"end":446.113,"text":"都是詐騙的,在這個詐騙當中,本席要跟你們說的就是我們不能讓他們覺得,你沒有所得,最主要你自白就可以檢慶你的罪行這樣,會詐騙集團的越來越嚴重啦尤其我們中央民國的消費者,會沒未來啦"},{"start":466.294,"end":473.477,"text":"因為現在詐騙集團都用年輕人來騙人說實在,我跟這幾天,我們辦公室的助理找這個資料給我看說實在,我看到很心疼"},{"start":483.8,"end":500.644,"text":"我希望每一個單位可以去輔導像剛才蘇丁說得很好可以在電視部或是網路部叫這些人不太方便尤其年輕人你看這三個單位這邊的不是越來越少是越來越多人所以"},{"start":514.309,"end":517.991,"text":"在這個規定當中,我認為我們是要來報法王,讓這些孩子知道做車手也有非常嚴重的做不到事情所以我們的法要越頂越硬,讓這些年輕人出社會時,知道不能亂來,做不到事"},{"start":539.523,"end":544.887,"text":"不然現在做廁所,硬硬的,開門開門,然後來捏一個,又有錢所以在這裡要來臨候一個,大家說,我們要加強這個法,要讓做不對的人,要怎麼去處理,第二點,讓他做不對的,可以在他的四周圍,臨位,不能這樣做,這樣是要去弄怪"},{"start":569.584,"end":569.764,"text":"以上"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":366,"blocks":[["王委員美惠：（10時17分）主席，請警政署、法務部及司法院。"],["主席：好，請警政署、法務部及司法院。"],["張署長榮興：委員好。"],["王委員美惠：署長，大家早安、辛苦了。今天我們要來審詐欺犯罪危害防制條例，最主要的是，我們要鼓勵犯罪的人可以自首，所以案件可以快速的辦理，不過在這個過程當中，在今年5月時，我們的大法官有說，如果他犯罪，沒有得到錢，只要他有坦白說他的作法就可以減輕他的罪刑。在這個過程當中，本席覺得這樣是不應該的，今天我們要修這個法就像補破網一樣，詐騙集團說實在的，署長，你們任何一個單位，我都覺得你們非常的認真、非常的努力，不過在努力的過程當中，說實在的，以我在嘉義市的服務處的選民服務，現在最近接到的不是跟人家吵架、車禍，或是怎麼樣，接到的大部分都是被詐騙集團欺騙，在這個過程當中，本席也覺得做詐騙的，他沒有得到所得，如果他自己也承認他的錯誤還可以減輕罪刑，我覺得這樣是不應該的，最起碼他要得到被詐騙的人的原諒及和解，這才是最主要的，才有辦法嚇阻這些做壞事的人，尤其做車手的人。在這個過程當中，請教你們這3個單位，在今年5月份大法官釋憲是這樣的時候，你們認為是不是要再加強什麼問題？請署長先發表意見。"],["張署長榮興：我很認同委員的意見，你犯這個罪就應該得到相關的懲罰，所以針對詐欺危害防制條例，這次法務部會提出把犯罪所得修正，改成詐騙所得到的財物。如果要讓他減刑或者免除其刑，他就要賠償犯罪所得或是跟對方和解，如同剛才委員說的，才能做這樣的行為。這次對於委員所提詐欺危害防制條例修正的部分，我們也很尊重委員所提的修正方案。以上是我的意見。"],["王委員美惠：本席之所以會跟署長探討這個問題，說實在的，我覺得最近也好，半年前也好，一年前也好，相關單位都非常認真，不過詐騙集團的想法、詐騙手段越來越先進，本席在這裡也曾經質詢過，你們不能只單純想到現在詐騙的情形怎麼樣。署長，你看最近詐騙的手段都不一樣了！"],["張署長榮興：對，會變來變去。"],["王委員美惠：對，以前詐騙集團會說：你兒子在我這裡，你要來領回去嗎？現在不是，現在有很多方法，像是會用一個專家分析股票……"],["張署長榮興：我們會在裡面成立專責……"],["王委員美惠：說實在的，相關單位要再加強。針對剛剛本席所說的，請問法官有什麼意見？"],["吳法官元曜：委員好。您剛才講的應該是最高法院大法庭的見解。"],["王委員美惠：對。"],["吳法官元曜：大法庭基本上是對於這個法律不同意見做一個統一見解，我們尊重大法庭的見解。"],["王委員美惠：我知道有不同意見。但我問的是，本席在這裡跟你們討論這個條款的時候，你們單位有什麼意見嗎？因為每一個意見大家都可以參考，像我就不認同，而你是認同只要他自首就好，不用跟受害者和解，這樣就可以了嗎？我是要問你的意見。沒關係，慢慢來！"],["吳法官元曜：以權責機關的意見就是尊重貴院委員的修法，在討論逐條或者討論法條的時候，我們也會適時表達我們的意見，原則上，尊重修法的整個過程。"],["王委員美惠：好。政次有什麼意見嗎？"],["徐次長錫祥：委員好。"],["王委員美惠：你好。"],["徐次長錫祥：因為現在這個問題是對犯罪所得的解釋跟見解，大家不一樣，依照大法庭的見解變成若被告自白犯罪，再來就……"],["王委員美惠：就可以減輕了。"],["徐次長錫祥：跟法官說他沒有所得或只拿1,000塊而已，交出來之後就可以減刑。因為解釋有不一樣的結果，現在為了要避免，所以我們現在要研修……"],["王委員美惠：要補破網？"],["徐次長錫祥：說補破網也可以，我們就是要把它補起來。也就是一定要填補被害人的損失，要和解、調解履行以後，取得原諒才能夠「得減輕其刑」。這樣把它補起來的話，就不會再造成現在的結果。以上。"],["王委員美惠：謝謝大家表示意見。本席在這裡要說的是，因為有時候抓到的是最後的那個車手，而集團賺很多也騙很多，但是說難聽一點，雖然車手本來就不能賺這種錢，最後被警察抓到，說實在的，他沒有所得，可是不能因為他沒有所得來自首、自白就可以減輕，這樣會「教歹囡仔大細」！這兩、三年年輕人違法都是詐騙，本席要跟你們說的是，我們不能讓他覺得只要沒有所得去自白就可以減輕罪刑，這樣詐騙會越來越嚴重，尤其是中華民國的年輕人會沒有未來，因為現在詐騙集團都利用年輕人來詐騙。說實在的，光是這幾天我辦公室的助理找資料給我看，我看得很心痛。我希望每一個單位都可以去輔導，像剛剛署長說得很好，可以在電視或網路宣導，讓這些人不要被騙，尤其是年輕人。你看這三年詐騙不是越來越少，而是越來越多，所以在這個過程當中，我們要來補破網，讓這些小孩知道當車手也是非常嚴重的做錯事。因此，我們的法要愈定愈緊，讓這些年輕人出社會的時候，知道不能亂來、做錯事。不然現在當車手很閒又輕鬆，領一下就有錢了。我在這裡要跟任何一個單位說，我們要加強這個法，讓做錯的人被處罰。第二點，可以在四處宣導，讓他知道不能做這樣的錯事，否則要去坐牢。以上。"],["主席：請黃捷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":74,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-27","speakers":["張宏陸","王定宇","王義川","王美惠","蘇巧慧","張智倫","麥玉珍","黃建賓","黃捷","李柏毅","許宇甄","牛煦庭","徐欣瑩","洪孟楷","張啓楷","黃珊珊","吳琪銘","高金素梅","丁學忠","林楚茵","楊瓊瓔","徐富癸"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-06-25"],"gazette_id":"1146401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第27次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員王定宇等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第五十四條條文修正草案」案；二、審\n查委員廖先翔等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十三條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員\n張宏陸等30人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員林宜瑾\n等27人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案；五、審查委員王義川等16人\n擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案；六、審查委員陳素月等 18 人擬具\n「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1146401_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}