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進行的事情因為你有一些高鐵"},{"start":382.984,"end":410.012,"text":"都沒有人嘛對不對你可以把票價降低啊去招攬客人你不要現在班班客滿的情況之下你可以公告一些這個這個這個比較離風時間的時段我們高鐵的特質就是一般車開出來不管是坐多少人他的固定成本都是一樣我想石董事長你剛剛上任我也不為難你這個裡面改組啊我也尊重交通部行政院的人事權"},{"start":411.292,"end":423.897,"text":"當然還要看你的表現,表現不好的話,我們在執行團還要見面嘛好不好?加油,請你請回台鐵剛才那個誰?鄭董?很重要的問題,工會團體提出三大訴求,大概都是公安的問題"},{"start":433.976,"end":463.099,"text":"警力的加強你這邊交通部要跟內政部去協調一下因為高鐵常常發生一些意外公安意外所以鐵路警察的部分我們會特別拜託對這些員工人心惶惶他們會怕是不是對我們旅客來講的安全好不好這個很重要鄭董你再回去注意一下好不好好你跟工會溝通一下他們的三大訴求我想這個應該可以辦得到就警力再加強一下是的我們會跟鐵警局再進一步溝通"},{"start":463.439,"end":481.67,"text":"好那鄭董你請回部長最後一個問題就請教你今天公路局局長沒有來我明天會找他來開個會你聽到就好了我們中正國中有個停車場停車場大概我不曉得誰規劃156個位置"},{"start":484.583,"end":503.859,"text":"這個停車場是大家使用,不是國中,因為沒有土地的嘛所以利用中正國中運動場下面,把它土方挖開然後做停車場,上面再蓋教室教室的錢教育不出,底下的錢由我們公眾局來出啦那現在公眾局說,你要蓋156個位置"},{"start":506.393,"end":512.095,"text":"那我們覺得沒辦法我們只能蓋75個車位75個車位單價大概248萬一個他說你這個248萬建造費用超過一般的100多萬的車子變成這個停車場比車位還貴不符國內標準馬祖地區我們缺工缺料"},{"start":530.629,"end":556.432,"text":"我們很多地方標不出去我們一個中山國中標了二十八次二十八次喔標出去以後還碰到問題,地質賺貸的問題所以可見還有一些石頭、砂石有一些離島的地區根本東西都進不去啊那廠商你即使給我賺五百萬、賺一千萬沒有用,我不想賺那個錢啊因為什麼?預期罰款會罰死他你知道嗎所以呢"},{"start":557.608,"end":574.495,"text":"在公路總局這案子一直沒辦法過去一直在審查再審查那你狀況不一樣,你不能跟台灣來比啊是不是,那你造價不只比台灣高三分之一還有缺工缺料的問題我們另外一個停車場,福澳停車場兩個比較單價,一個車位的單價是247萬這個是248萬啊,只多一萬塊啊"},{"start":584.093,"end":604.85,"text":"所以我想部長你回去交代一下公務總局,我們現場明天要親自來,因為這個問題不能再拖了而且工程已經八次發包了,如果實在再不行,請我們交通部你們來主導來主政在符合規範的範圍之內我們盡量來協助,這個部分我來跟他們溝通你不能一直在符合台灣的規範,你符合台灣的規範怎麼弄?"},{"start":610.885,"end":632.445,"text":"你台灣一個單價,比如說車子一部150萬,它的停車位造價只能在150萬以內那我們那裡就在200多萬嘛,沒有200多萬坐不起來嘛現在我們就75個車位,那好你如果要求要我們156個車位的話,那你再給我補助我一半的錢啊"},{"start":636.007,"end":661.167,"text":"明天召開的會議先討論,後續有需要我來協助,我再來協助溝通現場很緊張,他親自跑來,拜託我啊拜託我,我就找公眾總局他們來他們裡面有個委員會委員會你做官的在辦公室,你怎麼知道我們那邊的事情啊我都火大了,反正想說再考察一次因為馬祖考察過了啊再去為這個事情再考察一次部長有需要嗎?"},{"start":662.691,"end":668.394,"text":"其實您這樣說我就理解,不一定要到現場,因為停車場我就看了兩個馬祖的停車場我們看過兩個,就這個沒看,蓋了你一看你應該了解了嗎?對我了解了好不好,不打擾你好不好,謝謝昭偉"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":660,"blocks":[["陳委員雪生：（11時58分）哎呀，我以為王義川委員只會鬥爭，腦袋還不錯嘛。像有一些高鐵在沒有人坐的時段把便宜的票賣出去，這是對的，我看他腦袋還不錯。我要請部長。"],["主席：陳部長。"],["陳委員雪生：請陳部長，不是史部長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["陳委員雪生：部長，好久不見，我看你笑容可掬，很像事業蠻順利的。"],["陳部長世凱：是看到你就會很開心。"],["陳委員雪生：不會、不會。我想請問一下，這一次高鐵跟臺鐵的人事案，當然我們尊重行政院啦……"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：人事主導權是你們嘛？"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：你們該派誰，我們沒有意見，當然成敗你要負責。"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒錯。"],["陳委員雪生：這個過程怎麼樣？願聞其詳。"],["陳部長世凱：過程？"],["陳委員雪生：這個人事是怎麼主導呢？"],["陳部長世凱：這是由交通部提出、由院長核定。"],["陳委員雪生：那就是你提出的喔？"],["陳部長世凱：是，交通部提出的。"],["陳委員雪生：是你提出去的嘛？"],["陳部長世凱：對，交通部提出的沒錯。"],["陳委員雪生：因為高鐵的鄭董，我對他很有興趣，他從在立榮航空的時候就跟我們馬祖有接觸，後來到長榮，他真的是標準的CEO，然後到高鐵，那時候高鐵都快倒了，對不對？但他把高鐵振興起來，做得很好。他甚至要高鐵學臺鐵做便當，我聽他講過已經有這個計畫。"],["陳部長世凱：確實。"],["陳委員雪生：結果他突然升董事長，但董事長沒做幾個月又到臺鐵。我覺得臺鐵董事長是很危險的職務，之前杜微當局長時……"],["陳部長世凱：需要更有能力的。"],["陳委員雪生：我問杜局長，請問你要幹多久？他說幹到退休。我說你要幹到退休？臺鐵局長一年換三次，抓的抓，關的關，彈劾的彈劾，很辛苦的，是不是？"],["陳部長世凱：杜董事長做得很好，真的做到退休。"],["陳委員雪生：他退休時我也很詫異，我一直希望他能夠繼續。你現在把鄭董弄過來，我勉勵過鄭董了，畢竟高鐵的年薪跟臺鐵差很多，而且臺鐵的薪水有爭議，所以鄭董上來滿辛苦的。因為臺鐵有段，還有站，對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：還有處。"],["陳委員雪生：站跟段的沉痾已久，當你把底下弄得差不多時，你自己也走人了，是不是？如果部底下的每個局都出狀況，我想部長也幹不下去了，是不是？現在臺鐵要漲價，漲幅有百分之二十六點幾，至於今年的財報大概虧損137.9億，鄭董，我想聽聽你的講法，你要怎麼樣把137.9億虧損彌平，再恢復到如同高鐵的雄風？你有沒有這樣的雄心壯志？"],["鄭董事長光遠：我有這樣的想法，但是要慢慢來。現在最重要的是讓臺鐵的服務能夠符合旅客需求，讓旅客能對臺鐵有信心，因此要安全、要準點，這部分要先做到。不過要做到這點，一定要讓員工願意付出，所以要友善職場、要改善員工福利，應該給員工合理的待遇，這些都要趕快做，當這些都做完以後，再來看看我們的財務情況是怎麼樣。"],["陳委員雪生：我想我們都會支持。現在臺鐵推出TPASS月票，但一年虧3.8億，當然，這部分由地方與中央聯合支出。其實我問過了，這跟臺北市、臺中市有關，跟馬祖沒什麼關係，所以馬祖不會出這筆錢；就算要我們出錢，我們也會找陳部長算帳，對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：馬祖沒有出到。"],["陳委員雪生：我們不會出這筆錢。"],["陳部長世凱：對，不會。"],["陳委員雪生：但臺鐵這邊還要3.8億！不過這項政策是對的，學者專家都評估這項政策是對的，對通勤族來講是好的，只是這樣鄭董會更辛苦。還有，我最關注的其實是臺鐵便當，希望能讓臺鐵便當繼續發揚光大，好不好？"],["鄭董事長光遠：好，我們會在原本優勢之下，繼續努力強化我們的優勢；至於我們做不好的，我們會儘快做得更好。"],["陳委員雪生：部長，臺鐵董事長才剛剛上任，你不會再把他換掉吧？"],["陳部長世凱：不會、不會。"],["陳委員雪生：會不會又調整去哪裡？畢竟高公局長馬上要退休了，你會不會再弄到那邊去？"],["陳部長世凱：不會，臺鐵有很多工作要做，剛剛委員也已經提示很多工作了，相信鄭董事長一定會努力把臺鐵的體質改變。"],["陳委員雪生：你們這些人事安排我們根本都不知道，都是從報章雜誌得知的。鄭董請回，請新任的史董事長。"],["主席：請高鐵史董事長。"],["陳委員雪生：我在立法院沒跟史董事長見過面，今天初次見面，印象滿好的，談笑風生，看起來似乎有滿多歷練，不過還是可以跟我們部長多學習。你以前是文化部部長，現在不管怎麼樣，你的長官就是陳部長，你心裡面可以接受嗎？"],["史董事長哲：完全接受。"],["陳委員雪生：你不能接受的話可以講！"],["史董事長哲：沒有，完全接受。"],["陳委員雪生：完全接受？說說看你將來有什麼雄心抱負？要怎麼讓高鐵繼續發揚光大？剛才王義川委員也講了一些，我以為王義川只會搞鬥爭，結果他腦袋還不錯，你可以接受他的講法嗎？"],["史董事長哲：王委員講的也是我們現在正在進行的事情。"],["陳委員雪生：高鐵有一些座位都沒有人坐，對不對？所以你可以把票價降低好招攬客人。雖然現在有些時段班班客滿，但你可以把離峰時段的班次公告……"],["史董事長哲：高鐵的特質就是一班車開出來，不管坐多少人，固定成本都是一樣的。"],["陳委員雪生：史董事長剛剛上任，我也不為難你，至於人事改組，我也尊重交通部及行政院的人事權，當然還是要看你的表現！表現不好的話，我們總是會在質詢台見面的，是不是？"],["史董事長哲：是。"],["陳委員雪生：好不好？"],["史董事長哲：好，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員雪生：加油，請回。"],["史董事長哲：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員雪生：臺鐵鄭董事長，有一個重要的問題要請教。日前工會團體提出三大訴求，我想大概都是工安問題，譬如警力的加強，交通部就要跟內政部協調一下，因為臺鐵常常發生一些工安意外……"],["陳部長世凱：所以我們會特別拜託鐵路警察。"],["陳委員雪生：這讓員工人心惶惶，他們會怕！"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒錯。"],["陳委員雪生：是不是？這也跟旅客安全有關，所以很重要，請鄭董回去注意一下，好不好？"],["鄭董事長光遠：好。"],["陳委員雪生：你跟工會溝通一下，他們的三大訴求應該可以辦得到，就警力再加強一下。"],["鄭董事長光遠：是的，我們會跟鐵警局再做進一步的溝通。"],["陳委員雪生：鄭董請回。最後一個問題請教部長。今天公路局局長沒有來，我明天會找他開會，這件事部長有聽到就好了。","馬祖中正國中停車場有156個位置，我不曉得這是誰規劃的。不過該停車場是供大家使用，並非國中所有。因為沒有土地，所以將中正國中運動場下方的土方挖開來做停車場，上面再蓋教室，教室的錢由教育部出，底下停車場的錢由公路局出。但公路局說要蓋156個車位，我們覺得沒辦法，只能蓋75個車位，一個車位單價大概248萬。公路局說一個車位建造費用要248萬，但一般車輛一台才一百多萬，變成車位比車輛還貴，不符國內標準。問題是馬祖缺工、缺料，所以很多地方的案子都標不出去！像馬祖中山國中的案子標了28次，標出去以後還碰到地質鑽探問題，問題由此可見。此外，石頭、沙石等東西根本進不了離島，所以即使讓廠商賺500萬、1,000萬都沒有用，人家也不想賺，為什麼？因為逾期罰款就可以罰死他，你知道嗎？也因此，這個案子一直沒辦法過，公路局一直在審查。我認為彼此狀況不一樣，不能拿臺灣來比，是不是？馬祖的造價不只比臺灣高三分之一，還有缺工、缺料的問題！以另外的福澳停車場來說，這兩個單價一比，一個車位建造單價是247萬，一個是248萬，只多1萬塊！請部長回去交代公路局，我們縣長明天要親自來，因為這問題不能再拖了！而且工程已經發包第八次，如果實在不行，那就請交通部來主導、主政！"],["陳部長世凱：好，在符合規範的範圍之內我們儘量來協助。至於這部分我來跟他們溝通……"],["陳委員雪生：符合規範？"],["陳部長世凱：福澳停車場……"],["陳委員雪生：不能一直要符合臺灣的規範！符合臺灣的規範要怎麼做？比如臺灣一部車子150萬，所以停車位造價只能在150萬以內；但我們馬祖就是要兩百多萬，沒有兩百多萬做不起來的！現在我們只能做75個車位，如果要求我們做156個車位，那就要補助我們一半的錢，是不是？我想你……"],["陳部長世凱：我想在明天召開的會議先討論，後續有需要我協助的，我再來協助溝通。"],["陳委員雪生：其實縣長很緊張，所以親自來拜託我。他拜託我，我就找公路局來。公路局有委員會……但當官的整天都在辦公室，怎麼知道我們馬祖那邊的事？我都火大了，本來想說再考察一次，其實馬祖已經考察過了，現在要再為這事情再考察一次？部長，有需要嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：其實委員這樣說我就理解了，不一定要到現場。不過我也看了兩個停車場，馬祖的停車場……"],["陳委員雪生：我們看過兩個？"],["陳部長世凱：對，看過兩個。"],["陳委員雪生：就這個沒看？"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["陳委員雪生：另外兩個你去看了？"],["陳部長世凱：是，上次有看了兩個。"],["陳委員雪生：所以部長應該了解了？"],["陳部長世凱：對，我了解。"],["陳委員雪生：好不好？部長要處理。謝謝召委。"],["陳部長世凱：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳雪生委員的質詢。現在請邱若華委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":370,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-17","speakers":["林國成","李昆澤","黃國昌","黃健豪","陳素月","何欣純","徐富癸","魯明哲","洪孟楷","林俊憲","蔡其昌","王義川","陳雪生","邱若華","林月琴","陳俊宇","黃建賓","張雅琳","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","王美惠","許智傑","葉元之","游顥","楊瓊瓔","邱鎮軍","廖先翔"],"page_start":301,"meetingDate":["2025-06-25"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00013"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部部長、交通部鐵道局局長、交通部觀光署署長、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長及\n台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長率所屬相關單位列席就「交通部觀光署、國營臺灣鐵路股份有\n限公司及台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司人事調整及新任首長之業務展望」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146201_00014"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}