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因為你扯到外交我就說你在外交上有什麼實質的成效啦我是覺得你這個部分要多琢磨一點啦就是說因為跟著這樣連結之後那將來有一個什麼樣多一個互動或什麼這樣會比較好一點我意思是說這樣會更具有說服力嘛因為畢竟是國際組織嘛對啊而不是說舉辦一次會議而已我是跟你建議說最好是這樣會更具有說服力那第二個的部分呢就預算上呢基本上呢"},{"start":142.771,"end":156.443,"text":"反而現在的物價越來越高你相對14年來說預算不增反減這讓人家很意外啊監察院比較會省錢嗎還是以前的監察院比較浪費還是怎麼樣的原因你不能說明一下"},{"start":157.737,"end":171.267,"text":"跟委員說明其實每次監察院在編列預算的時候都非常的確實跟嚴謹那以前不確實囉每次都是非常確實嚴謹那為什麼以前多現在少14年前我跟委員報告一下我們2011年編列777萬777萬2000元我看到是779萬"},{"start":179.833,"end":186.679,"text":"777萬2000元然後到了結束的時候我們有核算過總支出是669萬9872元在2019年我們編列了751萬5500元然後最後總支出是616萬7982元其實我們也有去 喔了解"},{"start":204.996,"end":230.231,"text":"就決算的部分其實沒有預算數那麼多啦還差了100多萬啦所以說其實這次也不用變那麼多啦好 這樣我了解就決算數的差別好 那另外一個部分據我了解今年的預算那個監察院被砍了96%業務費嘛雖然連整個伊甸基金會的人員都減半還積欠先知到五月底還積欠133萬"},{"start":235.209,"end":245.861,"text":"這個真的情何以堪啊 監察院欺欠弱勢團體這有沒有什麼方式可以解套這個萬一弱勢團體以後來跟我們陳情的話你覺得我們要怎麼處理啊"},{"start":249.517,"end":266.847,"text":"就是有關於醫店在幫忙協助監察院有關於整個全院的清潔的部分那其實一開始我們是15位可是因為預算被整個刪除所以我們就保留了7位7位完全都是工作量不是加倍了嗎"},{"start":267.227,"end":290.406,"text":"都是生長人士那相關的工作呢我們在院裡面也盡量去我簡單的講接下來這些基線的款項什麼時候要準備來處理你們怎麼處理這有可能繼續動用預備金的方式嗎預備金的金額夠不夠待會我會問那個副作你們是有打算用同樣的模式嗎"},{"start":291.797,"end":302.987,"text":"跟委員說明,除了這750以外的確監察院還有跟行政院,透過行政院去請求另外的7900萬那什麼時候再送進來,一次再送進來,變成我們還要審兩次副主席長"},{"start":313.084,"end":333.236,"text":"就是說監察院這個因為他是國際會議舉辦在即所以他這個案子送的比較快另外我有盤點過就是說包括監察院其他的業務費的不足以及總統府或者是行政院等等有另外第二批也會來動惡"},{"start":334.517,"end":353.323,"text":"那你們有去統計過不論是行政院或者總統府或者是說監察院他可能動資到二倍金的部分的金額目前大概多少因為你二倍金總共也不過八十億啊而且現階段就我理解的部分已經動用了二十幾億了嘛應該不足六十億了嘛"},{"start":357.069,"end":373.377,"text":"目前第二批會送過來是1.5億那是哪幾個單位總統府行政院不當黨產委員會跟監察院行政院黨產委員會跟監察院大概什麼時候會再送"},{"start":374.165,"end":397.195,"text":"這個就我們了解我們大院的那個院會已經交付審查就是等委員會看什麼時候安排如果是這樣子的話那我再問一下那個監察院監察院現在其實對立委官員來說最恐怖的事情就是要職本申報這個到底有沒有辦法什麼解決"},{"start":400.322,"end":414.066,"text":"跟委員說明就是因為我們的業務費用真的是36%所以不是只有財深的他的相關的費用要可支應我簡單的問啦等到二倍金下一次二倍金的使用這1.5億當中能不能解決這個問題"},{"start":416.187,"end":437.46,"text":"可以可以齁就可以一任而解齁我跟你講要廢監察案不容易啊因為你怎麼廢你也廢不了這個監察的職權啊它只是分屬在體制的不同部門而已監察權還是很重要希望在這個預算被刪減的過程當中我們的監察權還是可以順利運作得以落實齁繼續加油副局長我最後問一個問題齁副局長"},{"start":439.341,"end":463.659,"text":"最近有關於北約組織希望國防預算達到GDP的5%我們台灣目前在美方的要求之下也有喊到3也有喊到5也有喊到10實際上我們今年總體的國防預算總共加起來是2.45%明年的概算已經出來了有沒有可能再增加在努力當中還在努力當中總統就說3%"},{"start":466.124,"end":483.993,"text":"你們有沒有可能達到3%至少3%我們就朝這個目標來朝這個目標在努力所以說明年的國防預算至少3%就是因為國防預算就它的來源包括年度預算對我知道啦就是總統的目標你會不會把它達成對我們會朝這個目標來努力好謝謝你 謝謝接著請黃國昌委員質詢黃國昌黃國昌"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":134,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（9時36分）主席，有請陳慧娟副主計長，還有監察院王代理秘書長。"],["主席：好，請副主計長還有王代理秘書長。"],["郭委員國文：我先就教於王代理秘書長，其實這個年會之前已經辦過，今年算辦第三次嘛！"],["王代理秘書長增華：是。"],["郭委員國文：上次也是動用二備金，對不對？"],["王代理秘書長增華：是，在108年。"],["郭委員國文：好像是因為來不及編列。"],["王代理秘書長增華：對。"],["郭委員國文：那這一次在法源上主計總處也應該是OK，對不對？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：對。"],["郭委員國文：其實剛剛賴士葆委員也有強調，站在一個國家的立場，他不會反對，我相信從一個理性問政的角度都應該要支持才對。不過就邦交國的部分我們要鞏固邦交，可是我看起來這邊好像沒有邦交國，主要是在美中之間有外交戰場，我們需要跟這些人聯繫一些關係吧！你能不能稍微表述一下，過去主辦了兩場，有沒有什麼樣的實質成效？"],["王代理秘書長增華：跟委員報告，我們有辦過兩次，分別是在2011年跟2019年。"],["郭委員國文：對，我知道，實質的成效是什麼？"],["王代理秘書長增華：其實就是因為監察院是APOR的正式會員，我們是有投票權的，那參加相關的年會，甚至主辦相關的年會，這個是會員重要的義務，然後真的對我們國家來講……"],["郭委員國文：沒有，因為你扯到外交，我就問你在外交上有什麼實質的成效，我是覺得你對這個部分要多著墨一點。"],["王代理秘書長增華：是。"],["郭委員國文：就是說因為有這樣連結之後，那將來有多一些互動或什麼，這樣會比較好一點，我的意思是說這樣會更具有說服力，因為畢竟是國際組織而不是只舉辦一次會議而已，我是建議你最好是這樣，因為會更具有說服力。"],["王代理秘書長增華：是，謝謝委員。"],["郭委員國文：第二個，在預算方面，基本上，現在的物價愈來愈高，相對於14年前來說，預算不增反減，這也讓人家很意外啊！是監察院比較會省錢嗎？或是以前的監察院比較浪費，還是怎麼樣的原因，能不能說明一下？"],["王代理秘書長增華：跟委員說明，其實每次監察院在編列預算的時候都非常的確實跟嚴謹……"],["郭委員國文：那以前不確實囉？"],["王代理秘書長增華：每次都是非常確實、嚴謹……"],["郭委員國文：那為什麼和14年前相比是以前多而現在少？"],["王代理秘書長增華：我跟委員報告一下，我們2011年編列777萬2,000元……"],["郭委員國文：我看到的是779萬。"],["王代理秘書長增華：是777萬2,000元，然後在結束的時候我們有核算過，總支出是669萬9,872元，在2019年我們編列了751萬5,500元，然後最後總支出是616萬7,982元。"],["郭委員國文：了解，就是決算的部分其實沒有預算數那麼多，還差了一百多萬，所以其實這次也不用編那麼多。"],["王代理秘書長增華：是。"],["郭委員國文：好，這樣我了解，就是決算數的差別。","另外還有一個部分，據我了解，今年監察院的業務費被砍了96%，所以連整個伊甸基金會的人員都減半，還積欠薪資，到5月底積欠了133萬，這個真的是情何以堪啊！監察院積欠弱勢團體，這有沒有什麼方式可以解套？萬一那個弱勢團體以後來跟我們陳情的話，你覺得我們要怎麼處理啊？"],["王代理秘書長增華：關於伊甸協助監察院全院清潔的部分，其實一開始我們是有15位，可是因為預算被整個刪除，所以我們就保留了7位，這7位完全都是身障人士……"],["郭委員國文：這樣他們的工作量不是加倍了嗎？"],["王代理秘書長增華：那相關的工作我們在院裡面也儘量去勻支人員的……"],["郭委員國文：我簡單的講，接下來，你準備在什麼時候來處理這些積欠的款項？你們要怎麼處理？有可能繼續用動用預備金的方式嗎？預備金的金額夠不夠？待會我會問副座，你們是有打算用同樣的模式嗎？"],["王代理秘書長增華：跟委員說明，除了這750萬以外，的確監察院還有透過行政院去請求另外的……"],["郭委員國文：金額大概是多少？"],["王代理秘書長增華：7,900萬。"],["郭委員國文：7,900萬？"],["王代理秘書長增華：對，因為我們目前已經……"],["郭委員國文：那什麼時候再送進來？你們怎麼不一次送進來，這樣變成我們還要審兩次？"],["王代理秘書長增華：這個我們……"],["郭委員國文：請副主計長說明。"],["陳副主計長慧娟：跟委員報告，監察院是因為這個國際會議舉辦在即，所以這個案子送得比較快。"],["郭委員國文：是。"],["陳副主計長慧娟：另外，我們有盤點過，就是包括監察院其他業務費的不足以及總統府或者是行政院等等，有另外第二批也會來動二。"],["郭委員國文：那你們有去統計過行政院、總統府或監察院可能動支到二備金的金額目前大概是多少嗎？因為二備金總共夯不啷噹也不過80億，而且據我了解，現階段已經動用了二十幾億，應該不足60億了。"],["陳副主計長慧娟：跟委員報告，目前第二批會送過來的是1.5億。"],["郭委員國文：1.5億？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：是。"],["郭委員國文：是哪幾個單位？大概什麼時候？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：總統府、行政院、不當黨產處理委員會跟監察院。"],["郭委員國文：行政院、不當黨產處理委員會跟監察院，大概什麼時候會再送？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：就我們的了解，我們大院的院會已經交付審查，就是等委員會看什麼時候安排。"],["郭委員國文：就等委員會排而已嘛！"],["陳副主計長慧娟：是。"],["郭委員國文：好，如果是這樣子的話，那我再問一下監察院，其實現在對立委、官員來說，最恐怖的事情就是要紙本申報，這個到底有沒有什麼辦法可以解決？"],["王代理秘書長增華：跟委員說明，因為我們的業務費真的是刪了96%，所以不是只有財申的相關費用要……"],["郭委員國文：我簡單的問，等到下一次二備金的使用，這1.5億到底能不能解決這個問題？"],["王代理秘書長增華：可以。"],["郭委員國文：那問題就可以迎刃而解。我跟你講，要廢監察院不容易啊！因為你怎麼廢也廢不了監察的職權，它只是分屬在整個體制的不同部門而已，監察權還是很重要，希望在這個預算被刪減的過程當中，我們的監察權還是可以順利運作並得以落實，請繼續加油。","副主計長，我最後要問你一個問題，最近北約組織希望國防預算要達到GDP的5%，然後我們臺灣目前在美方的要求之下有喊到3%、有喊到5%，也有喊到10%。事實上，我們今年總體的國防預算總共加起來是2.45%，那明年的概算已經出來了，有沒有可能再增加？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：在努力當中。"],["郭委員國文：還在努力當中？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：是。"],["郭委員國文：總統都說3%了，有沒有可能至少達到3%？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：我們就朝這個目標來努力。"],["郭委員國文：在朝這個目標努力？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：是。"],["郭委員國文：所以明年的國防預算至少3%？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：因為國防預算的來源包括年度預算、特別預算等等……"],["郭委員國文：對，我知道，你會不會達成總統的目標？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：我們會朝這個目標來努力。"],["郭委員國文：好，謝謝。"],["主席：接著請黃國昌委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":136,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-20,36-1","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","羅智強","莊瑞雄","顏寬恒","吳宗憲","翁曉玲","李坤城","陳玉珍","吳思瑤","李彥秀","陳培瑜","王世堅","黃珊珊","徐欣瑩","王鴻薇","林倩綺","林思銘","羅明才"],"page_start":75,"meetingDate":["2025-06-26"],"gazette_id":"1146401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查行政院函為監察院114年度辦理「2025年第37屆澳紐及太平洋地區監察使年會暨人權國際研\n討會」所需經費不敷，請同意動支114年度中央政府總預算第二預備金750萬元支應案","agenda_id":"1146401_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}