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請人權委員會來說明一下"},{"start":110.824,"end":139.018,"text":"是 報告委員跟委員說明一下就是國家安全委員會其實是站在守護生命權的立場那因為我們國家已經所以被害人的生命權不重要因為主要是因為我們國家已經簽訂了兩公約那你遇到施朵講的女老師你要不要描述一下怎麼受殘忍的虐待 虐殺其實我們是扮演著一個那你知不知道今天最近有詐欺集團綁架61個被害者綁架61個人"},{"start":140.916,"end":168.528,"text":"我想請教人權會這六十一個人的人權在哪裡其實人權會我們我想問你哪一個政府執政之下有六十一個人被綁架的一次綁架六十一個人你聽過嗎你有沒有聽過先跑出人權會立場有聽過嗎有時綁架人數最多就是在我們民進黨執政的時候你也有去關心這些人權嗎"},{"start":170.344,"end":196.382,"text":"我們人權會其實這幾年在廢死的工作上面其實我們同時對啦我知道你心心念念就是要廢死啊我們其實現在也針對受害者的家屬所以人權會沒有心心念念要廢死啊我們今年其實也針對受害者的家屬然後在這個部分開始著力你一邊跟大家講你要廢除死刑一邊跟大家講你關心受害者的家屬你去講給受害者家屬聽啦你不用講給受害者家屬聽你講給誰聽我告訴你你知道那個61個被綁架的"},{"start":200.981,"end":221.368,"text":"被未讀被惦記被虐待活活虐待三個人死掉虐死三個人一樣啊免死你去跟那個被虐死那三個人講講人權好不好要不要去拜訪家屬講人權謝謝你的無語我告訴你這是為什麼第一個我要講"},{"start":230.27,"end":256.611,"text":"你憑什麼說不支持死刑反對廢除死刑是不民主的什麼叫做廢除死刑叫深化民主那不廢除死刑就不是深化民主這你們人權會的結論總不能否認吧在現在的是不是嘛一百多個國家裡面其實目前還有存留死刑的國家已經很少了而且重點是"},{"start":257.694,"end":272.057,"text":"民進黨最愛拿著美國做例子美國也有一些州是沒有廢除死刑啊所以他也沒有深化民主啊不要拿民主做標籤就這麼簡單這是你們人權會自己想要做的"},{"start":273.123,"end":299.19,"text":"迎合執政黨廢除死刑的黨綱那是政治意識形態其實這個不是迎合因為我們已經簽署兩公約沒關係啊你去跟那三位被虐死的家被虐死的受害者講這些啦當初兩公約在簽的時候是在馬總統時代我很簡單我要講一個結論我要告訴你一個結論兩公約你也不要拿來框我兩公約也沒說要廢除死刑兩公約只是說要嚴格謹慎的執行死刑對啊你也講對那你拿兩公約出來縮嘴"},{"start":300.069,"end":326.563,"text":"沒有,因為很多國家如果說不執行執行的話是可以排除第五條的我再說啊,我就做一個很簡單的結論啦你光你今天監察院站在八成民意反對廢死的民意的對立面我就不知道監察院在幹嘛在講本務啊想請教一下我們代理秘書長剛好看前面的委員都有質詢啊"},{"start":328.072,"end":354.605,"text":"李俊詩用公務車已經請辭那想請問現在行政調查結果進度到什麼程度目前有關於 我們副院長也有說明然後會 目前檢調在處理中有六個案件然後另外紀律委員會也有排案要我們副院長就胡說八道什麼叫檢調在處理就不能處理"},{"start":356.462,"end":381.248,"text":"法規規定的很清楚並不因此停止調查所以搞了半天我剛剛前面講先站在八成的反對廢死的民意的對立面就是監察院然後第二個自己是要端正關真的單位結果呢涉入一大堆問題第三個時間到我也不占用時間很簡單"},{"start":383.8,"end":411.37,"text":"到現在為止監察院到底交出了什麼監督行政權的成績單出來給大家看不是大家刪監察院預算而是監察院真的是做的實在是讓大家覺得這個單位存在跟沒存在到底差別在哪裡關鍵還一件事情我希望陳菊院長早日康復我是真心的希望祝福她身體健康可是一個院長請假多久了"},{"start":414.381,"end":441.196,"text":"目前院長在請假中請假多久你看連我們的代理秘書長都不知道院長請假多久還沒有半年快半年快半年那不就是某種程度我也要必須說那不是證明監察院院長不在半年也是沒有關係嗎行政院院長可以半年不在嗎司法院院長半年不在嗎所以我還是要回頭說啦"},{"start":442.864,"end":464.838,"text":"今天年會的預算我沒什麼意見啦國際會議要舉辦沒什麼意見但監察院真的我還是回頭當然也不能怪你們啦我說過啦監察院的整個制度設計就是有問題我今天跟黃國昌委員已經一起提案就是針對修憲要啟動調整監察院的憲政職程"},{"start":467.252,"end":480.005,"text":"讓監察院變成一個民意機關我覺得比較能夠解決現在的問題不會背離民意甚至不會因為被行政權牽絆而不敢執行監察權的職務謝謝好 謝謝羅志強接著我們請莊瑞雄委員質詢馬力"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":356,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（10時9分）有請王代理秘書長。"],["主席：請王代理秘書長。"],["王代理秘書長增華：委員好。"],["羅委員智強：王代秘書長，其實在預算審查當中，你有沒有發現不管司法院也好，考試院也好，大家有意見的比較少，但監察院大家的意見就很多，對不對？我告訴你為什麼。","先從幾件事來看，為什麼大家對監察院的預算意見那麼多？坦白講，要開國際年會，我覺得沒什麼問題。但監察院要自己想想看，為什麼對於監察院的預算大家會意見那麼多？我想請教一句話，你看是誰說的。「死刑作為一個結束個人生命的終極懲罰，不管採取什麼樣的執行方式，都是殘忍、不人道。死刑是酷刑，不能以合法制裁之名豁免責任。八成民眾不贊成廢除死刑，做出臺灣民意對廢死強烈不滿的結論，但在不能合理理解臺灣社會真實面貌下，如何得證國家發動死刑的正當性」，這些話是誰說的？"],["王代理秘書長增華：我不能確定，但是不是國家人權委員會？"],["羅委員智強：沒錯，就是國家人權委員會的6月份年報。為什麼我從這地方開始講？你們特別強調廢除死刑是深化民主與落實轉型正義的重要步驟，我想請問代理秘書長，廢除死刑與深化民主有什麼關係？"],["王代理秘書長增華：這是國家人權委員會的正式主張，我可不可以請……"],["羅委員智強：可以，請人權會說明。"],["鄒執行秘書筱涵：跟委員說明一下。國家人權委員會其實是站在守護生命權的立場，因為我們國家已經簽訂了……"],["羅委員智強：所以被害人的生命權不重要？"],["鄒執行秘書筱涵：主要是因為我們國家已經簽訂了兩公約……"],["羅委員智強：你知道師鐸獎女老師一案嗎？你要不要描述一下她遭受怎麼樣的殘忍虐殺？"],["鄒執行秘書筱涵：其實我們是扮演一個……"],["羅委員智強：你知不知道最近有詐欺集團綁架61名被害者，綁架61個人！我想請教人權會，這61人的人權在哪裡？"],["鄒執行秘書筱涵：其實人權會……"],["羅委員智強：在哪一個政府執政之下，會有61人被綁架？一次綁架61人，你聽過嗎？你有沒有聽過？先拋除你所謂的人權會立場吧！有聽過嗎？有史以來綁架人數最多的，就是在民進黨執政的時候！你有去關心這些人的人權嗎？"],["鄒執行秘書筱涵：人權會這幾年在廢死工作上，其實也同時對受害者家屬……"],["羅委員智強：對，我知道你們心心念念就是要廢死！"],["鄒執行秘書筱涵：不、不，我們現在也針對受害者家屬……"],["羅委員智強：不？所以人權會沒有心心念念要廢死？"],["鄒執行秘書筱涵：今年其實也開始針對受害者家屬在著力……"],["羅委員智強：你一邊跟大家講要廢除死刑；一邊跟大家講關心受害者家屬，你去講給受害者家屬聽！其實你不用講給受害者家屬聽，你該講給誰聽？我告訴你，那61個被綁架、被餵毒、被電擊、被虐待，而且有3人被活活虐死！虐死3個人！一樣，免死！你去跟被虐死的3個人講人權，好不好？要不要去拜訪家屬講人權？謝謝你的無語！我告訴你，這就是為什麼我第一個要講的，你憑什麼說不支持死刑？說反對廢除死刑是不民主的？說什麼廢除死刑叫深化民主，難道不廢除死刑就不是深化民主？這是你們人權會的結論，總不能否認吧？"],["鄒執行秘書筱涵：在現在一百多個國家裡面，目前還存留死刑的國家已經很少……"],["羅委員智強：別的國家有別的國家的國情，重點是，民進黨最愛拿美國做例子，但美國也有一些州並沒有廢除死刑。"],["鄒執行秘書筱涵：我了解……"],["羅委員智強：所以它也沒有深化民主？"],["鄒執行秘書筱涵：這我們都了解……"],["羅委員智強：不要拿民主做標籤，就這麼簡單！這是你們人權會自己想要做的，迎合執政黨廢除死刑的黨綱，是政治意識形態……"],["鄒執行秘書筱涵：不是迎合，因為我們已經簽署兩公約，當初並沒有排除……"],["羅委員智強：沒關係，你去跟那3位被虐死的受害者家屬講這些！"],["鄒執行秘書筱涵：當初簽訂兩公約時是在馬總統時代，當時並沒有排除死刑這條……"],["羅委員智強：很簡單，我講一個結論：你不要拿兩公約來誆我！兩公約沒說要廢除死刑！兩公約只是要嚴格謹慎的執行死刑。"],["鄒執行秘書筱涵：對，但是如果說……"],["羅委員智強：你也講對？你還拿兩公約出來說嘴？"],["鄒執行秘書筱涵：沒有，因為如果很多國家不執行死刑的話，是可以排除第五條的……"],["羅委員智強：我做個很簡單的結論：今天光監察院站在八成反對廢死民意的對立面，就讓我不知道監察院在幹什麼！","現在來講本務，想請教一下代理秘書長，剛剛我看前面的委員都有質詢，李俊俋私用公務車已經請辭了，請問現在行政調查結果進度到什麼程度？"],["王代理秘書長增華：目前有關於……我們副院長也有說明會……目前檢調在處理中，有六個案號……"],["羅委員智強：就是不處理啦，直接幫你下結論嘛！"],["王代理秘書長增華：另外，紀律委員會也有排案要開會。"],["羅委員智強：你們副院長就是胡說八道，什麼叫檢調在處理就不能處理！法規規定的很清楚，並不因此停止調查，所以搞了半天，我剛剛前面講，先站在八成反對廢死的民意的對立面，就是監察院！第二個，自己是要端正官箴的單位，結果卻涉入一大堆問題。第三個，時間到我也不占用時間，很簡單，到現在為止，監察院到底交出了什麼監督行政權的成績單出來給大家看？不是大家要刪監察院的預算，而是監察院真的是做得實在是……讓大家覺得這個單位存在跟沒存在到底差別在哪裡？我就光檢討一件事情，我希望陳菊院長早日康復，我是真心的希望，祝福他身體健康，可是一個院長請假多久了？"],["王代理秘書長增華：目前院長在請假中。"],["羅委員智強：請假多久了？"],["王代理秘書長增華：還沒有到……"],["羅委員智強：你看，連我們的代理秘書長都不知道院長請假多久！"],["王代理秘書長增華：還沒有半年，快半年。"],["羅委員智強：快半年？那不就是某種程度，我也要必須說，這不是證明監察院院長不在半年也是沒有關係嗎？行政院院長可以半年不在嗎？司法院院長可以半年不在嗎？所以我還是要回頭說，今天年會的預算，我沒什麼意見啦，國際會議要舉辦，我沒什麼意見，但監察院真的……我還是回頭說，當然也不能怪你們啦，我說過監察院整個制度的設計就是有問題的，我今天跟黃國昌委員已經一起提案，就是針對修憲要啟動，調整監察院的憲政職權，讓監察院變成一個民意機關，我覺得比較能夠解決現在的問題，不會背離民意，甚至不會因為被行政權牽絆而不敢執行監察權的職務，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅智強委員。","接著我們請莊瑞雄委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":136,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-20,36-1","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","羅智強","莊瑞雄","顏寬恒","吳宗憲","翁曉玲","李坤城","陳玉珍","吳思瑤","李彥秀","陳培瑜","王世堅","黃珊珊","徐欣瑩","王鴻薇","林倩綺","林思銘","羅明才"],"page_start":75,"meetingDate":["2025-06-26"],"gazette_id":"1146401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查行政院函為監察院114年度辦理「2025年第37屆澳紐及太平洋地區監察使年會暨人權國際研\n討會」所需經費不敷，請同意動支114年度中央政府總預算第二預備金750萬元支應案","agenda_id":"1146401_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}