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15:49:48","會議時間":"2025-06-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第18次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院台灣民眾黨黨團，鑑於本院修憲委員會掌理憲法修正案之審議及相關事項，然自本（第11）屆以來，相繼有各黨委員提出修憲相關提案，惟雖經院會陸續通過將其交修憲委員會審查，但本屆至今，修憲委員會卻未依據修憲委員會組織規程予以組成；為避免各黨委員所提修憲提案付委後，無法依照院會決定交修憲委員會進行審查，爰要求本院儘速依據「立法院修憲委員會組織規程」第三條之規定，於本（第3）會期完成修憲委員會之組成，並決議第一次修憲委員會召開日期，俾利進行修憲案後續審查程序。是否有當？請公決案等10案。二、6月27日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、7月1日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":4.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.927218750000002,"end":20.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.10784375,"end":25.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.47409375,"end":28.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.511593750000003,"end":30.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.43971875,"end":31.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.329718750000005,"end":33.072218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.713468750000004,"end":34.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.962218750000005,"end":38.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.438468750000006,"end":40.665968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.17221875,"end":43.602218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.99034375,"end":47.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.939093750000005,"end":49.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.21721875,"end":50.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.719093750000006,"end":53.018468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.71034375,"end":54.807218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.49909375,"end":61.017218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.523468750000006,"end":63.51471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.81409375,"end":67.19346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.12159375,"end":68.86409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.31534375000001,"end":72.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.30659375,"end":73.48784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.60159375,"end":76.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.94721875,"end":78.12846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.10721875,"end":80.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.44034375000001,"end":81.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.16159375000001,"end":82.98846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.30909375,"end":85.06409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.80221875000001,"end":88.03409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.81034375,"end":89.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.99159375,"end":92.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.53971875,"end":95.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.27346875,"end":96.69096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.28159375,"end":99.88034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.35284375,"end":100.94346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.24721875,"end":104.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.77409375,"end":108.04784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.77346875,"end":112.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.38034375000001,"end":115.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.16471875,"end":116.95784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.54846875000001,"end":119.20221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.82659375,"end":121.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.64471875000001,"end":124.50096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.02409375,"end":125.59784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.03659375000001,"end":128.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.15846875,"end":129.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.33971875,"end":132.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.41096875,"end":134.72721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.01409375,"end":140.24534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.46471875,"end":140.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.29159375,"end":143.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.65409375000002,"end":146.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.48471875,"end":150.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.53909375,"end":157.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.25096875,"end":167.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.68409375000002,"end":169.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.75971875000002,"end":174.33284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.92346875,"end":175.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.96971875,"end":179.95221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.67784375000002,"end":183.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.96846875,"end":185.30159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.94284375,"end":187.46159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.91721875000002,"end":189.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.09409375,"end":192.05159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.84471875,"end":196.30409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.70909375000002,"end":198.93659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.69596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各位在場的媒體朋友 我們立法院的同仁今天我看大家手上所拿到的再修正動議"},{"start":26.513,"end":48.812,"text":"我相信本院所有的委員在今天中午之前沒有人看過也就是說這整個關係到整個法治的一個重大的一個變革沒有在我們的委員會裡面曾經有任何一個立法委員去好好的做討論"},{"start":50.387,"end":77.808,"text":"這很可惜了我們一直在強調的委員會中心主義在台灣民眾黨今天所提出來將對一個司法變革重大的一個議案裡面呢他卻完全去違背了按照中華民國憲法第八十條的規定法官啊他是要依照法律獨立審判不受任何的一個干擾那如果今天"},{"start":79.178,"end":107.896,"text":"我們這樣的一個條文通過了以後我很擔心變成一個人民的一個公審在我國的法治裡面不管是民事訴訟法或者在刑事訴訟法如果是違背了公開審理那一定是構成判決違背法令都可以上訴到最高法院可是我們今天特別要去提出來的就是說讓陽光照進法院那是好事"},{"start":108.851,"end":121.017,"text":"可是如果說造成變成人民的一個公審的話本席到期期以為不可尤其是我們現行的法治裡面我們只要在事項當中"},{"start":122.694,"end":142.951,"text":"我們把證人傳到法庭上來審判長或者說訴訟代理人在結論證人的時候他只要證人認為說這個特定人旁聽只要有人特定人旁聽他就認為我沒有辦法完全做陳述那這個時候呢法官本來在另旁聽的人全部都退庭"},{"start":143.712,"end":164.397,"text":"也就是說要真實的發現這個時候法官他就發揮關鍵的一個力量那這部修法的一個目的本來就是說因為你法院沒有公開審理陽光沒有照進去沒有辦法讓社會有所信任但是呢我們卻又把說社會重大案件或者矚目的一個案件"},{"start":165.057,"end":179.188,"text":"可不可以來公佈我們又把它交給法官你不信任法官那你又把最後的一個權責又交給法官這個實在是沒有在立法院裡面好好的一個討論"},{"start":180.709,"end":200.363,"text":"我相信這個疑慮沒有辦法來解除最高法院是一個法律審法律審要來公佈各個政黨大家來好好討論但是涉及到事實審常常在審酌的事實這犯罪的一個事實無罪推定大家也不要忘記了如果說現在立法院把他給通過了好了 現在換期數滿多了到法庭上是不是形同一個標籤讓社會來公審"},{"start":212.335,"end":217.76,"text":"這是我為駐大法治的一個改革再來一堂我講一堂魔法"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":12,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（15時46分）謝謝主席、各位在場的媒體朋友、立法院的同仁。今天我看大家手上所拿到的再修正動議，我相信本院所有的委員在今天中午之前沒有人看過，也就是說這關係到整個法制的重大變革，沒有在我們的委員會裡面，曾經有任何一個立法委員好好地做討論，這很可惜！我們一直在強調的委員會中心主義，在台灣民眾黨今天所提出將對司法變革重大的一個議案裡面，它卻完全違背了。按照中華民國憲法第八十條規定，法官是要依照法律獨立審判，不受任何的干擾，如果今天我們這樣的一個條文通過了以後，我很擔心變成人民的公審。","在我國的法制裡面，不管是民事訴訟法或者在刑事訴訟法，如果是違背了公開審理，那一定是構成判決違背法令，都可以上訴到最高法院。可是我們今天特別要提出來的是，讓陽光照進法院，那是好事，可是如果變成人民的一個公審的話，本席倒期期以為不可，尤其是現行法制裡面，我們只要在訴訟當中把證人傳到法庭上來，審判長或訴訟代理人在詰問證人的時候，證人只要認為有特定人旁聽，他就沒有辦法完全做陳述，這個時候本來法官再命旁聽的人全部都退庭，也就是說要真實的發現，這個時候法官就發揮關鍵的力量。","這一部修法本來的目的就是，因為法院沒有公開審理，陽光沒有照進去，沒有辦法讓社會有所信任，但是我們卻又把社會重大案件或矚目案件到底可不可以公播？我們又把它交給法官。你不信任法官，你又把最後的權責又交給法官，這個實在是沒有在立法院裡面好好地討論，我相信這個疑慮沒有辦法解除。最高法院是一個法律審，法律審要來公播，各個政黨大家來好好討論，但是涉及到事實審，常常在審酌的是犯罪的一個事實，無罪推定，大家也不要忘記了，如果公播今天立法院把它給通過了，好了，檢察官起訴完以後，到法庭上是不是形同一個標籤，然後讓社會來公審？本席認為重大法制的改革，在野黨不要「食緊挵破碗」。"],["主席：謝謝莊瑞雄委員的發言。","接下來請沈伯洋委員發言，吳思瑤委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-18","speakers":["韓國瑜","莊瑞雄","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","林國成","陳昭姿","劉書彬","張啓楷","吳秉叡","蔡易餘","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","陳亭妃","黃捷","黃珊珊","王義川","林楚茵","范雲","李柏毅","李坤城","賴瑞隆","林淑芬","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","黃國昌","黃國昌"],"page_start":25,"meetingDate":["2025-06-27"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第18次會議紀錄","content":"討論事項\n法院組織法修正第八十六條、第九十條、第九十一條、第九十三條及第一百十五條條文─ 完成三\n讀─","agenda_id":"1146201_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}