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我們請主委 鄭主委有請 委員好主委 早 早 主委 今天我們要審 北部族 關主民的新聞的草案在這裏面 你們有覺得有什麼寫了不對嗎"},{"start":28.237,"end":44.851,"text":"因為差一天喔 又天差一天啦本時候要跟你討論的就是在第三條裡面你有說到我們的憲法修法的第四條第二項第一款但是在我們的裡面 原住民的裡面並沒有第二項第一款只有第一項第二款"},{"start":58.004,"end":66.933,"text":"主委 這是小小過錯對啦 這個有誤之我來講 這不能小小過錯這兩三不是像我們年輕人大人拖一百拖不拖五十也好這是不一樣的"},{"start":80.446,"end":100.16,"text":"那條款裡面 所定的跟你所定的這是完全不一樣的所有主委 這要最終去注意 不能說小小過錯啦 好不好因為這事我來講不是開玩笑的因為我看起來 我怕你問錯了 再請教"},{"start":108.735,"end":122.981,"text":"所有的專家都說這可能是你們的單位寫得不對所以主委 老闆要比較好看好來 主委今天所要討論的就是80年的"},{"start":127.003,"end":138.485,"text":"法庭憲法裡面就判決說,全部主委就要在今年三年來就是在今年一八十四年的十月來,就要來完成啦但是說實在的主委,在我的辦公室也好,在家裡的服務處也好都有接到公民團體的建議啦"},{"start":155.556,"end":167.404,"text":"那也有我們的委員裡面的建議,因為公民團體的建議是希望我們不要繼續修另外一個法,是應該"},{"start":169.565,"end":189.294,"text":"全部主是關主民裡面的一份主是不是要在裡面的新聞來收到因為在公民團體的意見當中請問主委,你有聽到公民團體的意見嗎?來,你回答一下"},{"start":191.343,"end":201.826,"text":"我跟魏旺報告,這個去年的時候,我們就已經辦高中的座談會,今年這個沒有啦,我知道你辦,我是主委,不好意思,我要打岔我就是說,辦,辦,他們的意見,我知道你有辦喔,不過剛才就來了,你說你們沒有辦,我知道你有辦,跟辦他們的意見,你有參與,有做參考沒有啦來,主委請你回答"},{"start":220.538,"end":221.879,"text":"在今天這個座談會 也有公民團體提起這個意見但是為什麼不直接就修原住民法 也有很多人在說"},{"start":236.271,"end":250.383,"text":"但是就是說這個看我們這個判決的這個立法的主文我們是希望就是說必須要能夠用一個專法更能夠來符合我們的"},{"start":251.184,"end":273.24,"text":"平埔原住民族群的一些相關的權益這也有人在說差不多意見是差不多差不多啦不是說都說一定要修身分法也有說要修專法這個修專法的這個共識比這個修身分法比直接修身分法比較多一點啦"},{"start":273.84,"end":277.581,"text":"多一點點 比較多一點啦這樣喔 跟我聽是沒那麼多的主委 你是覺得麻煩 還是怕說有很多問題的參選所以你來做這個手法 這個問題不 因為我都覺得 不管什麼意見我們都要聽 因為我覺得 我們的委員他的意見"},{"start":300.35,"end":306.7,"text":"也好,公民團體的意見也好,因為坦白說,大家都想一個關注他們的一分數的時間,是怎樣你們要再六分"},{"start":313.963,"end":320.487,"text":"這讓他們覺得,不然我們再加原住民,又不公平,要怎麼分辨?說到這裡,讓人所說的話,就是怕大家的偏埔族來賓,所謂的納入原住民來賓"},{"start":336.991,"end":338.834,"text":"16宗,我們如果多做一宗就好了,變成17宗就好了我們不會這麼麻煩但是最主要的,我要說的就是我們裡面的資源"},{"start":351.539,"end":362.126,"text":"是要公家用,還是要這樣用,這是很大的問題啦,主委,你應該聽我說的意思啦是要這樣自己用,還是要公家自願公家用,這個是最重要的啦"},{"start":373.294,"end":387.382,"text":"變得我們越做越大,不是跟一家人的使用在這裏面,我要來請教主委,主委在213條裏面,全部講到教育及文化"},{"start":393.476,"end":405.323,"text":"那這樣下去的時候 他們的祕密會更加有文化是不是跟我們現在的原住民 更加有差異啊你第二十三條來賓 怎麼會更加有文化有關這個語言跟文化"},{"start":418.041,"end":437.698,"text":"直接將來平埔族群是直接就可以適用現在的法律現在可以用啊現在我們就有在協助他們的尤其是語言啦他們的語言流速太快了所以我們現在就有在協助平埔原住民的族人在做這個語言文化這一定要做的現在也在做啊"},{"start":439.144,"end":445.37,"text":"主委,在這方面,我提供的意見,你要去了解,要想一個方法,是非常簡單在這個過程當中,你也有說到,我們要想的事情是不是讓他們去"},{"start":455.64,"end":458.603,"text":"認定他們的身份,在五年五年裡面,心事不足的時候,我們要改十年剛才你還說,也可以改十五年,但是在這個規定要改的時候,沒有做,這裡的族群"},{"start":476.359,"end":483.063,"text":"在那裡等啊等,慢啊慢啊,好,真好等啊,本身要跟你說的是,是要如何如何,他們長久以來,他們就要證出他們的身份,要如何去選擇他們的核心去定義,因為最了解"},{"start":496.53,"end":498.812,"text":"在統計台的總統差不多有九十萬人的民眾我們現在有六十幾萬人的關注人所以在這個規定當中我們要怎樣"},{"start":513.602,"end":517.664,"text":"讓這裡的九十幾萬人,在這個時間可以出來登記啦你不可以說,他說可以行,可以行,他說行不完,也做不完,跟一個工會,也沒有資質,要修法我們就是有這個關係要修,要讓他們在這裡可以認定他們的身份啦所以主委本身跟你說這些"},{"start":539.736,"end":543.721,"text":"這個議件的時候,麻煩我們討論的時候,你們要去納入"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":167,"blocks":[["王委員美惠：（9時24分）主席，請主委。"],["主席：有請曾主委。"],["曾主任委員智勇：委員好。"],["王委員美惠：主委早。"],["曾主任委員智勇：早。"],["王委員美惠：主委，今天我們要審平埔族原住民身分的草案，在這裡面，你們覺得有什麼寫得不對嗎？因為差一字就天差地遠。本席要跟你們討論的就是第三條，裡面有講到憲法增修條文第四條第二項第一款，不過「原住民」並不在第二項第一款，只有第一項第二款有提到。主委，這是小小的過錯嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對！對！對！這個有誤植！"],["王委員美惠：但主委我要跟你說，這不能有小小過錯，這兩部分並不像晚輩跟長輩要100要不到，其實要50也好，這是不同的，該條條款裡面的所定的跟你所定的，是完全不同的，所以主委，這要非常的注意。"],["曾主任委員智勇：好。"],["王委員美惠：不能說這是小小過錯，好不好？"],["曾主任委員智勇：好。"],["王委員美惠：因為立法不是開玩笑的，而且我在看條文的時候，還怕自己問錯了，還請教了好幾位專家，後來才知這可能是你們寫錯了，主委，所以你們螺絲要栓緊。"],["曾主任委員智勇：好。"],["王委員美惠：主委，今天要討論的是110年憲法法庭判決，針對平埔族身分要在3年內，也就是今（114）年10月以前就要完成相關的立法，說實在的，無論是我的辦公室也好，或是在嘉義的服務處也好，都有接到公民團體的建議，而公民團體的建議是希望我們不要再立另外一個法，而是應該基於平埔族是原住民裡面的一分子，要以這樣的身分來修法才對，請問主委，你有聽到公民團體的意見嗎？請　你回答一下。"],["曾主任委員智勇：我跟委員報告，去年我們就已經辦了9場","的座談會，今年……"],["王委員美惠：主委，不好意思，我要打岔，我知道你有辦座談會，不然剛才我就會問你怎麼沒辦，所以我知道你有辦，但是他們提出的意見你有採納並留作參考嗎？請主委回答。"],["曾主任委員智勇：在好幾場的座談會當中，也都是有公民團體提出這個意見，但是在認定上，為什麼不直接修原住民法，這也是有很多人提出，但是就這個判決的主文，我們是希望用一個專法，如此更能符合我們平埔原住民族群一些相關的權益，這個說法也是有人提出，兩方的意見都差不多、差不多啦！"],["王委員美惠：各一半啦！"],["曾主任委員智勇：不是全部都說要修身分法，也有人說要立專法，而立專法的共識比直接修身分法還要多一點。"],["王委員美惠：多一點點？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是，比較多一點啦！"],["王委員美惠：是這樣嗎？我聽到的卻不是那麼多！主委，你是覺得麻煩還是擔心屆時會有很多問題產生，所以才做這樣的處理？不然我是覺得，不管是什麼意見我們都要聽，包括委員的意見也好，公民團體的意見也好，坦白說，若都身為原住民的一分子，為什麼你們還要再做區分？這會讓他們感覺、覺得自己跟原住民是不一樣的嗎？不然為什麼要再做區分？說難聽一點，就是河洛人所說的……就是擔心平埔族納入原住民裡面的16族，其實只要再加1族變17族就好了，何必這麼麻煩？其實最主要是因為裡面的資源是要共同使用還是要自己留著用，這就是很大的問題了。"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["王委員美惠：主委應該聽得懂我的意思啦！"],["曾主任委員智勇：我聽得懂。"],["王委員美惠：是要自己用，還是公家資源大家共同使用，這才是最重要的，餅我們要越做越大，不是只有這些人才能使用。我要請教主委，在你們的第二十三條裡面並沒有說到教育和文化，如果是這樣來立法，平埔族的教育和文化是不是跟我們現在的原住民又有差異了？即你們第二十三條裡面並沒有納入教育和文化。"],["曾主任委員智勇：我跟委員報告，有關語言跟文化，將來平埔族群直接就可以適用現在的法令，現在就可以用了，而且現在我們就已經在協助他們，尤其是語言，他們的語言流失太快了，所以我們現在就有在協助平埔原住民族人來做相關的工作，的確，語言、文化這是一定要做的，現在也已經在做了。"],["王委員美惠：主委，本席提供的這些意見，你們要進行暸解，畢竟要立一個法很不簡單，在這個過程當中，你們也有說到，是不是讓他們在認定他們身分一事上，若5年的時間有所不足的時候，我們將其改為10年，剛才你還說也可以改為15年。"],["曾主任委員智勇：是啊！"],["王委員美惠：不過在立法的過程裡面，平埔族這些族人在那邊等啊等！盼啊盼！實在是等很久了，本席要跟你說的是，長久以來他們就是要爭取他們的身分，所以要向他們宣導早日去登記，據了解，統計下來總total差不多有90萬的平埔族。"],["曾主任委員智勇：是啊！"],["王委員美惠：現在有六十幾萬人的原住民，所以在這個過程當中，我們要怎麼讓這九十幾萬人可以在這個時間內前來登記，你不能只會說這是可以延長的，這樣不就延不完，你們也做不完，這項工作也沒有很積極去做。本席認為，既然要立法，就是有這個決心要立法，可以早日認定他們的身分。主委，本席跟你說的這些意見，麻煩我們討論的時候你們要予以納入，以上。"],["曾主任委員智勇：好，謝謝。"],["王委員美惠：主席，不好意思！"],["主席：沒關係，謝謝王美惠委員。","下一位請黃捷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":202,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-28","speakers":["牛煦庭","林宜瑾","王美惠","黃捷","李柏毅","張宏陸","許宇甄","高金素梅","吳琪銘","鄭天財Sra 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