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年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管臺灣電力股份有限公司臺灣自來水股份有限公司經濟部部長郭志輝臺電公司董事長曾文森總經理王耀廷臺灣自來水公司董事長李嘉榮"},{"start":1800.889,"end":1822.626,"text":"總經理李丁來報告後委員陳廷飛等21人提出質詢均由經濟部郭部長及相關人員及其答覆登記法院委員處不在場者外其餘均與法院完畢、詢答結束委員林德甫所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位一週內與書面答覆並赴資本會決議、詢答結束令定期繼續審查。散會宣讀完畢好"},{"start":1830.7,"end":1833.584,"text":"謝謝。這場沒有委員,依次律正不處理。繼續進行討論事項,請一併宣讀。"},{"start":1836.169,"end":1837.169,"text":"基金及促進轉型正義基金今日詢答宣讀完畢"},{"start":1868.271,"end":1880.308,"text":"在請國會留主委報告之前我趕快介紹今天出席的國會相關同仁包括留基金主任委員之外還有"},{"start":1882.07,"end":1909.562,"text":"章朝仁主任秘書、仲規處、經濟發展處、社會處、產業處、人力處、國土區域離島發展處、管制考核處、法治處各處處長、中心信訊文化專案辦公室主任、檔案管理局林局長、跟檔案管理局所屬相關科室。行政院國家發展基金委員會王子密"},{"start":1910.595,"end":1918.144,"text":"主席總署、公務員署相關同仁。好,現在請國安會劉晉欽主任委員做一併報告。"},{"start":1930.66,"end":1942.639,"text":"主席、各位委員、大家早今天很榮幸有機會受邀來經濟委員會對於我們114年的施政計畫以及收支預算進行報告"},{"start":1946.094,"end":1966.61,"text":"我們大概會分三個重點來談,主要是談施政的方向、預算編列及計劃的執行情形。我們114年施政重點主要有四個主軸,第一個主軸是創新思維,扮演全球經濟關鍵角色,主要是推動新代物產業,加速產業創新轉型。"},{"start":1968.431,"end":1993.017,"text":"均衡產業發展、兆元投資國家發展、千億投資打造創新創業深化國際連結與合作另外我們在投資人才、新世代國際競爭力主軸是強化國家未來人才競爭力以及全球攬財另外對於區域合作發展、促進區域永續均衡發展部分我們主要是強化區域治理制度、促進花東離島永續發展"},{"start":1995.597,"end":2009.748,"text":"構築地方雙三郎帶、活絡中央新村發展以及不遺落任何人的近鄰公正轉型另外對於開放政府全方位提升施政透明度我們主要是以提升新階段的開放"},{"start":2010.749,"end":2024.157,"text":"政府國家行動方案建構友善的、便利的法律鬆綁環境推動計畫全生命週期的智慧管理以及打造科技賦能的國家檔案館預計在明年年底會開幕"},{"start":2028.58,"end":2035.768,"text":"整體預算大概執行情概要說明如下第一國安費在114年度稅入778.3萬稅出36億3616.2萬另外在國家檔案局稅入171萬稅出10億9263.6萬合計"},{"start":2051.003,"end":2053.305,"text":"稅率949.3萬及47億2579.8萬稅數增加8億1544.1萬,主要是因為前瞻預算"},{"start":2069.056,"end":2086.922,"text":"及將結到期未完成的工作必須急轉移轉到公務預算來執行那主要是在地方創生以及亞洲矽谷等計劃另外配合進行這個中印青春的這個宿舍的優化經費的為主所以主要這裡增加了8億"},{"start":2090.624,"end":2100.29,"text":"154.1萬那下一頁那整個預算裡面我們的組成最主要的是四大部分第一個部分是一般行政29.24%這個另外是促進產業發展23.76%再來是中興新村的這個"},{"start":2108.294,"end":2112.376,"text":"維運19.88%建全國土規劃經營13.19%主要是這四個是最主要的部分詳細說明如下一般行政7億9920萬人事、行政推動國家發展綜合計劃3040萬"},{"start":2129.326,"end":2135.908,"text":"五萬九千元主要以淨零工程轉型以及整體綜合規劃為主。再來是研議經濟政策、協調推動財經措施編列預算5197萬9千元主要是在於國家永續發展以及在經濟形勢的規劃"},{"start":2151.914,"end":2166.602,"text":"改善下一頁那另外我們在促進社會發展部分以及計劃審議的部分我們編列了5080萬1000元那主要是在針對社會發展以及這個近年工程轉型以及這個社區治理為主"},{"start":2167.362,"end":2170.747,"text":"另外在促進產業發展是編列6億4939萬主要是在推動產業的發展與佈局以及我們希望能夠推動均衡產業的發展以及創新創業以及國際"},{"start":2184.152,"end":2203.452,"text":"篡年的部分另外在促進人力資源發展的部分則是9181萬3千元主要還是在人口的這個政策上面包括這個競爭力的提升包括這個攬財的部分那下一頁是談到國土規劃的部分跟經營管理當然是3億6059萬元"},{"start":2206.395,"end":2230.202,"text":"這個部分主要是在於國土區域跟離島建設的發展最重要的大部分的預算是用於這個地方創生以及永續另外在績效管理的部分是屬於整個國家施政體系的管理我們這邊是編列預算3750萬4000元主要是在最終協調管理的數位化跟執行的部分"},{"start":2230.922,"end":2253.749,"text":"那尤其是在跨區域跟地方政府的管理這個發展的計畫我們會有一些新的規劃出來那另外在健全資訊管理提升應用效率的部分是一億零八百零九萬那主要是在推動辦公自動化以及這個發展這個管理國發資訊系統以及法規透明及公民參與計畫還有資訊傳輸韌性計畫這兩後面兩個計畫是主要的資金用途在下一頁"},{"start":2260.131,"end":2264.093,"text":"法規鬆綁及強化經貿管理部分編列706萬,主要參與國際法規調試及法規鬆綁推動。中興新村北中核心維運5億4,335萬,主要在於公有資產活化及文資財產設備管理及中興新村育成。"},{"start":2287.145,"end":2288.106,"text":"離島建設基金是9億,依據離島建設條例第15條,我們編列預算支援離島基金。"},{"start":2296.855,"end":2314.861,"text":"另外國家檔案局編列10億9263萬主要59.23%是在國家記憶就是檔案的深化管理上面21.5%是在行政管理另外在檔案管理應用是10%以及文書的部分是9.2%這個是在國家檔案局所以以上為本會所屬"},{"start":2324.898,"end":2340.818,"text":"本會及其所屬國家檔案管理局預算,主要是配合整體施政目標。我們也詳實編列,希望得到各位委員的支持。在此也特別感謝。接下來對於基金的部分進行報告。"},{"start":2344.893,"end":2370.758,"text":"本會所管理的基金最重要的第一個是行政院國家發展基金那這個基金的來源主要是國庫撥補那歷年到現在撥補了309億那用途主要是要改善產業結構然後這個同時促進產業的轉型與發展那另外是支持中央目的事業主管機關相關的合作以及計畫的推動"},{"start":2372.318,"end":2400.015,"text":"那也同時呢也是執行行政院專案核定的這個專案那下一頁那整個整個這樣的部分呢我們進行了一些投資融資的計劃在投資計劃裡面我們累積的直接投資就是從以前到現在累積下來我們的投資是796億那在創投的部分累積投資247億在創業天使的部分是累積了31億"},{"start":2401.836,"end":2409.162,"text":"在融資計畫上與銀行共同融資,委由銀行來做封控管理,累積合帶1兆819億元。另外在專案投資計畫部分,結合經濟部、文化部的部分,投資92億元。"},{"start":2421.792,"end":2438.079,"text":"補助計畫部分提供國家重點領域學院運作資金,目前補助超過27億元,這是開發基金目前主要政策與辦理情形。"},{"start":2439.94,"end":2460.565,"text":"整個在114年度我們希望在投資業務、融資業務跟補助業務都有一些計畫這個計畫主要是在兩大塊在投資業務部分我們希望著重於五大信賴產業那另外我們推動新興投資計畫我們希望創造國家的投資量能我們會在校園創投基金進行開始"},{"start":2462.611,"end":2484.739,"text":"透過校園的合作增加投資量能跟被投資標的產生。我們另外會產業再造基金我們希望透過基金的方式去輔導產業的轉型與再造另外我們也成立了智慧醫療創新創業的計劃基金同時也成立了AI的投資基金再來是綠色成長的基金預計在這幾個領域上"},{"start":2486.22,"end":2488.221,"text":"融資部分配合臺商回臺、跟流臺灣計畫、機器設備輸出、海外投資融資、機器設備升級、持續發展這部分業務在今年成長比例比較高,編列預算成長也比較高"},{"start":2504.105,"end":2522.334,"text":"另外在補助的部分就是屬於教育部的國家重點領域的學院以及教育部促進國際生來臺及留臺的新型專班那這兩個是我們在補助業務上面的主酬那這個部分基於這樣的部分我們預計這個業務收入是304億"},{"start":2527.098,"end":2530.642,"text":"6,728萬元另外支出的部分我們預計支出是58億7,928萬預計本期應該會有剩餘245億8,799萬"},{"start":2541.713,"end":2545.955,"text":"離島基金對於離島建設補助、貸款、投資項目及支援離島各項策略計劃及建設計劃支出。從90年到99年間由國庫撥補300億,從112年逐年編列預算撥補,今年以9億做編列撥補,目前計劃都在實施進行中。"},{"start":2571.388,"end":2592.372,"text":"那我們在111年的12月合訂了這個各縣市六期方案108項計畫總共是補助了25.16億元在113年的9至10月那就是在今年的9到10月我們在各縣市又合訂了27項計畫總共補助了3.69億元所以合計已經合訂了135項離島計畫補助了28.85億"},{"start":2600.669,"end":2627.89,"text":"我們在下一頁這個是那離島計的這個整個計畫第6期從112年到115年整個114年預計的重點執行項目主要還是在第一個是確保基本民生跟民行也就是說在島際之間的海運交通維修交通船還有醫療能力緊急救難還有平穩物價等等消防這些地方作為我們的補助的方向"},{"start":2628.47,"end":2642.717,"text":"另外在四大永續目標維護島嶼的環境打造熱活創新家園以及推動智慧創新轉型樹立低碳能源典型這四個方向也是我們在離島建設裡面主要的發展的目標"},{"start":2645.39,"end":2668.91,"text":"在114年離島建設基金的編列群形是基金來源是9億146萬9千元公庫撥補的是9億基金的用途是9億359萬9千元主要是在離島的各項用途包括永續的發展包括貸款的部分期末基金的餘額是8億2654萬8千元下一頁"},{"start":2673.534,"end":2690.627,"text":"接下來是花東地區的永續發展基金我們是從101年至110年由國庫補足了400億作為我們基金的用途主要還是在於在花東的建設跟發展那是依據花東地區的建設計畫與支持與撥補下一頁"},{"start":2700.107,"end":2714.46,"text":"第三期的部分我們在109年到114年實施的結果就是第一個是推動了智慧教育鼓勵多元學習我們建置了這個智慧教育中心5G的示範教室也建置了智慧教育圖書系統以及未來的這個"},{"start":2716.401,"end":2732.994,"text":"教室跟學習2萬人次以上也補助了在地潛力的運動選手講學金共136人我們也營造了永續城鄉落實淨林永續的部分補助了低碳運具加強了環境的改善以及宣傳"},{"start":2734.435,"end":2763.755,"text":"另外扶植的地方產業的升級我們也設立了很多的發展中心以及推動地方特色產業的發展在原住民生活永續經營的部分我們新建了17座部落聚會相關設施3座塞浦站轉型文件站還有就是在iTrip的i部落的部分我們協助了Wi-Fi的建立也推動了長者的照護跟運動等等活動在下一頁"},{"start":2764.715,"end":2768.038,"text":"花東地區永續發展基金、離島建設基金、花東地區永續發展基金、花東地區永續發展基金、花東地區永續發展基金、花東地區永續發展基金、花東地區永續發展基金、"},{"start":2795.075,"end":2821.666,"text":"應變的能量尤其在0403地震之後我們對於交通補助跟對於觀光補助還有對於緊急貸款的部分我們都有相當的支援另外這是在強化醫療照護的部分這幾個地方都是我們做了不少的事情在傳承原住民的文化落實近鄰生活營造在地觀光持續協助花東在建設上面下一頁"},{"start":2822.606,"end":2829.914,"text":"在花東永續資金的來源部分基金來源今年有600萬基金用途用了28億8144萬4千元期末基金還有162億2897萬6千元下一頁"},{"start":2838.562,"end":2861.04,"text":"最後是談到出行轉型基金主要是來自於不當單場的移轉加上政府預算的撥補還有一些捐贈用途主要是在協助轉型正義相關的一些工作以及支持弱勢、輔助弱勢的部分長期照顧以這兩個為主主要是由各縣市"},{"start":2862.042,"end":2867.689,"text":"或機構透過縣市提出相關計劃,再由基金核准補助。"},{"start":2870.869,"end":2889.764,"text":"一百一十三年的部分我們合準了一億四千九百七十三萬三千元主要是協助內政部、教育部、法務部、衛福部、文化部、原住民委員會以及國家發展委員會的檔案施政收集運用用在這幾個部會上"},{"start":2893.226,"end":2915.92,"text":"下一頁那在114年正義基金的部分出去展示正義基金的部分執行內政部這邊有一個威權象徵的處置然後教育部有一個轉型正義教育的事項那法務部有一個平復國家不法案件衛生福利部有受難者家庭照護那文化部有不義遺址保存與火化"},{"start":2916.46,"end":2937.578,"text":"無話不還有另外一個專案是政治檔案研究原住民委員會有針對原住民的轉型正義國家發展會持續在檔案的修正跟整理上面主要是在這8個主要的工作項目為主其中關聯的部會有7個下一頁"},{"start":2938.559,"end":2964.735,"text":"所以基金的來源今年是114年預計是7038萬元那用途是1億5367萬5千元那期末還會有基金餘額是13億1355萬7千元這個大概是整個基金的運作狀況在下一頁所以以上四個基金的說明那國發基金還是會持續這個產業的結構的調整跟改善"},{"start":2967.256,"end":2990.67,"text":"那當然很多委員有意見就是希望我們以財務投資為主,著重於財務的效益那這一點當然我們也會認真的去思考但是目前來講,國發基金還是以協助國家產業結構轉型為主協助創新為主,然後國家政策推動為主那也因此呢,目前我們的結構方向還是沒有改變"},{"start":2991.79,"end":3014.097,"text":"另外在於離島花東的部分我們會持續協助離島花東當地居民的生活跟品質我們也會強化均衡台灣的發展至於對於本會促進正義轉移基金我們也會協助各部會持續推動促進轉型正義的工作以上為我們國家基金的四大基金的報告謝謝各位委員的支持"},{"start":3019.662,"end":3046.324,"text":"好,謝謝主委的報告,主委請回座希望今天的會議能夠進行順利也希望這個臺灣隊在東京階段今天可以贏好,這個現在進行詢答委員詢答之前,主席原力做一點先幾點宣告因為委員發言時期,本會委員6分鐘必要時延長"},{"start":3048.192,"end":3069.946,"text":"兩分鐘非本會委員4分鐘上午10點整截止發言登記那為了讓會議能夠順利進行以及讓每位委員發言時間能夠兼顧公平性以及不會影響下一位委員質詢的權益在每位委員質詢結束之後本席會立即請質詢委員停止質詢請各位委員能夠配合感謝"},{"start":3072.73,"end":3101.273,"text":"呃...不好意思,我們先確定一下...又不見了?那待會再確定一下意思如何好,現在第一位質詢,請林大化委員各位可以考量一下,把6加2改為6加4啊看...你要找人跟我講,已經宣告了我已經宣告了好,那我就是會意詢答嘛那就下一次啦,因為我已經宣告了好,那沒關係,尊重主席"},{"start":3109.307,"end":3125.402,"text":"主委,今天是棒球十二強,台灣隊委內拉,而且是台灣隊第一場召集詢問賽,這二、三十年來台灣最好的一次表現,我們來幫台灣加油一下吧。我數到3,我們說台灣加油。"},{"start":3126.843,"end":3128.965,"text":"我昨天有找人士開了一個小會我們會進行相關的查核"},{"start":3154.451,"end":3183.86,"text":"好所以你也是啟動了這樣的一個這個查辦的一個程序了嘛好那本席呢針對無人機呢加速去紅供應鏈打造健全產業的生態系要跟您做個討論臺灣無人機呢國際上限商機二部戰爭之後無人機在不對稱的作戰能力之下顯現的面臨區域政治的威脅只要經過整合民間無人機的產業鏈就可以去支援國家的應"},{"start":3185.241,"end":3201.695,"text":"對,國際上也因為美中對立其實在整個產業的任何一個產業的供應鏈市場區隔需求就很明顯的去紅化與非中二就這兩個的產業供應鏈的市場需求就出來了那臺灣無人機的商機在這個在上個禮拜11月17號我們林江榮部長他率無人機產業訪歐"},{"start":3210.983,"end":3221.367,"text":"到目前為止反應也非常的好所以我們期待台灣成為無人機全球無人機的民主供應鏈的核心這就是國家對所以在9月24號的時候美國26家的無人機製造跟反無人機的廠商全部都來台灣了"},{"start":3229.73,"end":3245.395,"text":"所以也邀請臺山臺灣來加入供應鏈顯示國際無人機產業是需要臺灣加入的但是有這樣的市場成長我們國內是應用不足的全球無人機的市場規模是339億美元預計在2030年7年後"},{"start":3250.296,"end":3274.11,"text":"可以達到558億美元蔡前總統的5加2產業計畫或者是賴總統五大新產業無人機都是關鍵產業無人機可應用的領域非常多元各部會也必須增加無人機應用才能扶植重點產業下面都是國外已經在執行的消防、物流、離岸風機的巡檢"},{"start":3276.792,"end":3288.365,"text":"災水果、高壓電塔的巡檢這都是在無人機在國外當中已有很成熟的運用那另外我也在我們今年這個前瞻台灣無人機的產業研討會在嘉義這邊當中有一個簡報內容爬梳了整個各部會"},{"start":3296.574,"end":3305.225,"text":"國防海委包括整個各部會有談到要補助無人機的部分的業務總共423億重點你看國防部就佔了350億海委會63億內政部2億農委會"},{"start":3313.576,"end":3331.443,"text":"各國課位各1億然後之後教育部就是都是幾千萬所以除了這幾個部會國防海洋內政農業及科學相關的部會外多數的部會對無人機的運用心態上也相對保守了所以在做您在做整個政策規劃的時候這也要讓您知道各部會的狀態"},{"start":3332.563,"end":3355.912,"text":"好那我們的困境在哪裡?臺灣無人機產業規模務必國際佈局臺灣的市場太小但是呢我們國家對的困境有哪些?有三個第一個硬體技術需擺脫中國第二個系統整合的人才培訓不足第三個國內無人機的企業規模是中小微好硬體技術需擺脫中國我必須承認中國在馬達、通訊、電池等關鍵零組件還是市場大宗"},{"start":3361.034,"end":3384.435,"text":"中國透過無人機的裝置物聯網感測器竊取機敏資訊資安當然就出現破口形成產業跟國安的漏洞後果就不堪設想這是第一個我們要面對的第二個系統整合的人才航太相關科技畢業人才現在都希望加入產業規模大的半導體不願去做無人機尤其無人機最缺乏的是軟"},{"start":3385.797,"end":3401.314,"text":"應整合的人才需要懂得程式語言要理解機械構建跟電動零組件那這個是目前第3個就是無人機企業規模都中小微企業需要政府政策性的支持才能健全國家對的規模"},{"start":3403.476,"end":3429.247,"text":"好那無人機國產化的基地最好全台灣最好的就是在高雄他的合理性跟他的這個必要性本席在這邊也讓主委因為需要您政策的支持高雄發展無人機的合理性有7項第一個我們研發無人機在金屬中心第二個爭取這個漢翔在近日也公佈了無人機製造機要發展無人機製造製造了"},{"start":3430.347,"end":3455.537,"text":"所以我也會請我這個最大的能力來爭取漢翔的無人機製造就在岡山整個金屬構建的重鎮提供高價、高質化的無人機所需的零組件就在我北高雄第三、航太產業園區在仁武無人機業者所需的北高雄所有的金屬構建塑膠設處、葉片製造都在岡山周遭的北高雄航太聚落第四個,正在規劃中的循環材料高質化的專區"},{"start":3459.599,"end":3487.73,"text":"他可以重點提供無人機的需要的複合材料這個是重點我們現在的複合機都是因為我們都是用塑膠類比較居多這裡很清楚所以在怎麼提升大幅躍升的提升在複合材料這個我們高雄就是有這個優勢第5個高雄軟體也就提供無人機需要的飛行控制跟地面控制的軟體開發能量第6個高階人才養成除了我們原來的中山大學陽明交通大學"},{"start":3488.65,"end":3511.47,"text":"清華大學都在左營成立分校這都是要感謝我們陳其邁市長第7個實踐大學高雄校區這邊就已經設置了無人機塑殼考照的場地好它的必要性高雄發展無人機產業無人機除了軍事用途民間商用的最佳測試地點就在高雄因為高雄可以提供貨櫃港口"},{"start":3512.691,"end":3531.451,"text":"三區道路、電廠設施、橋樑水利等不同的情境供無人機進行巡檢、搜查等的事半驗證而且在亞灣、京亞灣區的這些公司驗證的5G這個技術也可以提升無人機在通訊上的安全從高雄發展"},{"start":3532.452,"end":3557.017,"text":"商業無人機驗證將有助於成果推展到全世界無論在人才、技術、硬體、軟體等無人機產業所需的支援高雄均有完美的供應獨插中央政府的支持跟產業聚落的規劃好那在這邊我高雄市是可以發展無人機國產化無人機國產化我們是國際佈局"},{"start":3559.738,"end":3582.907,"text":"的產業生態系的最佳基地,擁有人才養成軟體園區、考照場地、航帶產業、複合材料和構建產業的聚合都需要國發會策略性整合的支持發展無人機產業需要廣大的腹地,看看我右邊右下角這張圖北高雄的發展跟南高雄的發展我們這個產業無人機的有需要腹地"},{"start":3583.627,"end":3596.816,"text":"人武航太產業園區、北高雄的產業園區皆可作為無人機的研發、演示、測試與競賽這都比嘉義考太多太多太多在嘉義只是做人機的訓練好"},{"start":3599.017,"end":3617.939,"text":"那最後本席希望您在一個月提出這樣的規劃就是本席有具體的建議事項第一個高雄具備軟體開發航太傳統產業聚落等先天條件漸進於高雄以產業聚落概念進行規劃並評估主題式的輔導策略主委您就回答我這一題就好了"},{"start":3619.226,"end":3643.855,"text":"好的 這個我會在一個月內提出規劃報告好 謝謝您支不支持剛才本席剛才講的是的 是的你對全國的產業聚落應該相對瞭解無燃機最好的產業的聚落就在高雄我們會找經濟部跟速發部我們一起來討論好 好 謝謝好 謝謝林大華委員來 主委請回座好 下位執行請邱益穎委員"},{"start":3653.939,"end":3680.625,"text":"謝謝主席我請一下國發會主委我想今天除了要討論這個國發會的預算以外有幾個跟整個台灣發展的議題想要請教您現在大家都在關注這個川普當選之後對台灣各方面可能產生的影響"},{"start":3681.485,"end":3702.897,"text":"川普即將在明年的1月上任那這個川普先生在競選的時候他的政見大概就是非常的強調以美國利益為優先的這樣的一個核心價值所以他已經也對外說明說他的對外經貿方面他將要將這個所有的進口商品加10%到20%的關稅"},{"start":3706.139,"end":3731.371,"text":"甚至提高中國商品進口關稅達到百分之六十這個應該就是未來我們在看到的過去的美中貿易戰應該又會再次升溫所以我不曉得在國發會怎麼樣看川普總統的新的經貿態度那他的這樣一個政策未來落實的可行性你們現在有沒有"},{"start":3732.071,"end":3734.337,"text":"委員會及所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算"},{"start":3742.168,"end":3769.998,"text":"來 主委謝謝委員其實我們這次在APEC大家討論的私下討論的比較多也是這個議題因為整個川普目前檯面上看到的是稅那檯面下的部分大家也在你講到APEC的私下討論是跟幾個國家的跟幾個國家的部長那我先講一下我們在上一次的2017年16年那個時候其實川普提升關稅之後帶動了很多的台商移出中國"},{"start":3770.658,"end":3774.12,"text":"臺灣市內波我們大概進來了2.3兆的投資那我們認為這一波當然有利有弊那我還是看我的看法沒有變就是利大於弊那你認為這一波的川普的這樣的川普總統這樣的一個新的政策對臺灣的整體是利大於弊的因為我們獲得的商機會更多因為中國有60%幾乎都在移動中"},{"start":3795.949,"end":3818.995,"text":"移動中當然這次我們在秘魯來講秘魯有一個港但是川普就講了那個港也算中國出口所以就變成是很明顯他的圍堵的政策是非常強烈的那對我們反而是一些有很大的反彈機會如果您認為在這樣的一個經貿變動當中對台灣是利大於弊台灣如何抓住這樣的一個利多的機會"},{"start":3819.935,"end":3846.447,"text":"政府有沒有什麼其他的作為、積極的作為來協助這一些企業升級或者是協助企業能夠抓住這樣的一個轉單效應的這樣的一個利基這個是我們在整個吸引台資回流的部分我們會找經濟部我們會跟經濟部會有個會議在看怎麼樣加強力道吸引回流第二個是協助台商移轉到海外的部分我們也會比較強化去支持這個動作"},{"start":3847.627,"end":3875.394,"text":"這個東西開始做了嗎?協助台商移轉因為其實我覺得商人喔台商應該是秀到這個風味的敏感度應該是會遠高過於政府啦所以他們應該也會開始在做一些規劃那我想政府在做後勤支援在做後面的back up的這個角色扮演上面我不曉得國發會在這個地方扮演的角色跟力道會到什麼樣的程度?"},{"start":3875.934,"end":3898.585,"text":"我們會持續強化我們在台商回流的這個資金吸引的力道以外原有的計畫以外我們其實也跟一些海外的國家我們有在商討一些合作的方案因為我們台灣現在人力密集的部分我們是比較建議他們往到一些我們友邦去所以我們有在談一些合作方案"},{"start":3899.465,"end":3926.587,"text":"主委那這個跟你那天談到的比如說你們現在國發基金的4個大的百億投資方案裡頭包括文化創意、智慧健康、AI新創、綠色成長那我記得您在6月的時候也提到了所謂的傳產再造基金也希望把它納入也希望在年底的時候成立那這個可能跟未來我們整體的這一些產業的發展其實是息息相關"},{"start":3927.427,"end":3945.983,"text":"您講說年底要成立,我不知道你們現在的進度到哪裡?因為你們現在新公布的這個所謂的四大百億投資方案並沒有包括這個傳產再造基金對,傳產再造基金因為他們民間也要募資,他們要募資18億現在已經募資完成,那已經遞件申請了,那我們會排審核"},{"start":3950.081,"end":3968.347,"text":"這個你只是審核而已嗎?你有沒有再去政府能夠再多加一點力道對於我們的這些傳產甚至整個基金的運用跟對於產業的輔助能夠再多加一點力道還是說你們只是做一些paperwork的審核工作而已?我們基本上我們會參與這個基金的投資因為他們這個由基金來做這個協助產業的轉型"},{"start":3975.669,"end":3996.774,"text":"因為他變成會投資進去然後那民間壓的比我們還多嘛所以這個會會有蠻大的效果尤其是都是比較知名的人士那另外的部分我們也在強化一些稅賦的優惠我們現在正在談所以我們應該會著手進行企業企業併購法開始會做修法會做一些時事上的鼓勵"},{"start":3997.837,"end":4023.863,"text":"這個部分是要明年才開始做嗎?你所謂的企業併購法的修法這個是有行政院來提案?我們已經開始做嗎?這個已經跟財政部協調過了在行政院協調過一次那本來是從產算條例裡面改那我們現在是回來改企業併購法所以我們會在最近就會已經會已經開完了我們最近開始會著手進行那另外一個部分這個4大百億主要是主要是要為了刺激國內未來的產業需求"},{"start":4026.913,"end":4047.888,"text":"主委您剛剛講到的這些部分其實是跟國家整體的經濟發展包括我們的產業未來的走向跟整個國際的經貿局勢其實是息息相關但是我想要更進一步請教您您剛剛講的這些策略是在國發會的內部裡頭去討論出來的還是在你們所謂的行政院經濟發展委員會去討論出來的"},{"start":4054.292,"end":4070.898,"text":"我為什麼會跟您討論這個議題因為我知道現在行政院又多下設了一個所謂的行政院經濟發展委員會他的主任委員當然是院長那國發會現在也就變成了一個幕僚單位可是國發會在整個國家的發展的這個"},{"start":4072.378,"end":4073.799,"text":"建設基金、花東地區永續發展建設基金、花東地區永續發展"},{"start":4094.998,"end":4111.036,"text":"你如果是院長當主任委員當然看起來是院長比較大嘛這個院長的主導性會比較強嘛那是不是變相的也會弱化了在國發會的這個功能上面是不是相對的就會被弱化了那未來的國發會是不是就會被這個所謂的經發會來取代"},{"start":4115.621,"end":4129.194,"text":"經費相對是強化國安會的功能那裡面大部分的工作其實還是來自國安會的規劃那另外是透過顧問給我們一些建議然後我們在院會來通過的話執行的力道會比以往更強"},{"start":4130.543,"end":4130.643,"text":"議員會主席"},{"start":4146.635,"end":4169.371,"text":"幾乎是一模一樣那你們幾個政委當然也都是共同在參與這樣的一個整個國家發展整個國家經濟發展的事務所以我對於整個經發會我是沒有意見但是我認為如果他是跌床架屋又多成立了一個委員會那其實實際工作還是跟國發會在做的現況是一模一樣的話那會不會有一點"},{"start":4171.018,"end":4171.579,"text":"請問各位同仁上次會議是否有錯誤?"},{"start":4201.034,"end":4204.402,"text":"沒有錯誤依次度確定主委先回座謝謝"},{"start":4230.109,"end":4241.061,"text":"氣象方會公布氣象變遷的績效指標六十四個國家跟地區"},{"start":4253.594,"end":4281.119,"text":"臺灣排名第60比去年有進步一名啦,也不要在調查位更嚴重的淨零碳排這一塊都在後段班我真不認輸的嗎臺灣這麼進步啊淨零碳排花那麼久啊越含越做越退步國際上已經聯繫好幾年都打我們的嘴巴了來我更今天要更直接跟你跟你討論我去看你的預算書啊淨零公正轉型的預算因為你編了要用人民納稅錢"},{"start":4283.223,"end":4306.319,"text":"一億一百九十八萬結果現在怎麼樣?連那個目標都訂不出來了嗎?你那個112年跟113年都有啊,為什麼在114年?為什麼?我現在看不到你的目標值你現在是怎樣?連目標都訂不出來了我們明年是編一千六百萬"},{"start":4308.526,"end":4328.199,"text":"淨零減碳公正轉型的預算對我們是1600萬您看這個表的下面也是寫1620萬你如果寫的是1620萬全部加起來不是一億九百一百九十八萬公正你這樣說我砍成一千多萬你講的是"},{"start":4332.247,"end":4353.052,"text":"那個是永續匯的部分啦永續匯不用從一億多砍成一千多啦我比較嚴重了沒有沒有 主委更嚴重了更嚴重了你看你要用人民納稅錢一億結果你連一個目標值都沒有累你現在知道淨零碳排做不好的事連目標都不敢定了你看看右邊這個圖"},{"start":4354.537,"end":4379.822,"text":"你110年跟111年跟今年你都還會想說你要出幾本書有一個具體的這個指標到今年114年除了什麼辦理實質的公眾知情、實場勢啊不要都空的你如果是個立法委員立法院第一個人民的願意給你這個錢嗎立法院能夠把這個把這個一億多給你嗎給給你倒退入喔你以前都有的指標基本連目標都沒有設"},{"start":4381.121,"end":4384.243,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院基金、離島建設基金、花東地區永續發展"},{"start":4409.681,"end":4419.695,"text":"委員這你這份資料我們來查證一下啦,我們查證一下再跟你,不過螺絲釘吊滿地了,好不好,酸緊一點,不會吊滿地啦,我釘的夠緊,你連目標值都沒有,阿你不知道要去什麼省?"},{"start":4424.298,"end":4452.908,"text":"你要這1億多你去年跟前年都有很明確目標值我們每一項都有目標值來來來 你看一看你回答之前你看一下1、1、2年你的目標值實際做了什麼事情1、1、3年的目標值是什麼做了什麼事情這都很明確的啊結果你1、1、4你要拿1億多你整個都空下來你的你的頭腦給你搖頭了對不對第一個一個禮拜內要補期第二個更嚴重的我定"},{"start":4454.25,"end":4480.198,"text":"欸主委,不是只有空白這個問題啦你連目標都沒有,你怎麼會要預算呢?你自己不知道要做什麼,什麼聽頭,你怎麼會要預算?你有更嚴重的,過去幾年就是實行的成效又不好嘛這樣怎麼對得起民眾呢?好,一個禮拜內把那個目標值很明確定出來好不好?你他怎麼會信嘛?你今天就是為了預算來的,結果你要空白那這個不叫螺絲釘掉滿地,什麼叫螺絲釘掉滿地?"},{"start":4482.202,"end":4499.811,"text":"主委,以前的國發會有,為什麼現在沒有?一個禮拜內把目標值很明確給本席好不好?明明有,我們有目標值阿,我想這應該是有,我不知道這份資料是我們哪裡出錯阿,我們更正阿因為這個目標值我都看過"},{"start":4504.854,"end":4531.067,"text":"今天更嚴重是過去的執行績效不好來這幾天你看這幾天台灣的空氣變成怎樣你外面在減碳減少空汙台灣這幾天減碳是不成空汙是暴增的我們看下一張圖你看這幾天台北天空一片灰台中連醫生都出來講說在上演那個沉默之秋"},{"start":4532.659,"end":4558.924,"text":"左邊這個是14號的這個空氣你看紅通通一片,到了15號整個更是紅通通的你減碳不好,結果空污又這麼嚴重這對不起人民嗎?人民的健康會受到很大傷害,注意你是定這個目標的人你要去達成這個好不好?我給你看一個很恐怖的這個圖,你看一下我們現在空氣壞到什麼程度?"},{"start":4560.882,"end":4584.961,"text":"我們要減煤對不對減少燒煤這是國家政策嘛國化會議定了對不對注意對不對結果你看我們的14號跟15號我們台電的10部10部燃煤的機組全部火力全開你看最上面的是林口的2號機第二個是大嶺的2號機下面有臺中最可憐的臺中有6個燒煤的機組在14號跟15號火力全開"},{"start":4589.778,"end":4616.733,"text":"前幾天已經你看那個七四土常常都已經火力全開後來可以降下來一點點稍微喘一下人民呼吸可以稍微喘息一下下14號、15號全部都是在最高峰欸你看火力全開欸特別是台中的跟台中附近的這個居民是多麼可憐6個燒煤的機組全部火力全開我們看下一張不是只有燃煤沒有做到燒重油是不是更嚴重對不對"},{"start":4618.208,"end":4624.291,"text":"基金、花東地區永續發展基金、花東地區永續發展基金、花東地區永續發展基金、花東地區永續發展基金、花東地區永續發展基金、花東地區永續發展"},{"start":4642.383,"end":4669.82,"text":"南部的民眾已經犧牲那麼多年,健康都受影響了肺腺癌那麼高,說不要演繹好不好你們堅持演繹,可是你們保證說盡量如果一號機開了,三號機不要開我給你看下一張那14號跟15號,賣了不只開了一號機火力全開,連三號機都燒了這樣怎麼對得起人民呢?人民用肺在呼吸,用生命在呼吸"},{"start":4670.714,"end":4697.624,"text":"那這個還是你國家的政策、國化會的政策所以注意你很重要很重要的責任喔好不好怎麼樣減少減少在燒煤怎麼樣讓空屋可以減少你要多花時間好不好而且要非常具體我們今天都不是用嘴巴講而已我今天給你看的東西都是非常具體的好不好好謝謝委員另外問你一個事情你明年的這個宣傳費用暴增了一倍"},{"start":4699.841,"end":4710.305,"text":"大內宣、文宣的這個費用暴增了一倍。你知道嗎?你的媒體宣傳費用在有線電視情有獨鍾一家從去年的1、2年到今年的1、3年我去調資料出來這個大家都查得到的資料"},{"start":4728.493,"end":4737.201,"text":"我們全台灣的有線電視從48台開始東森、財經、E電視、年代電視台東森一直算過來到56有民視、TBS到輝煩都中11台結果你情有獨中獨大一家你這不是得罪其他10家嗎?"},{"start":4752.075,"end":4761.348,"text":"這個我承諾改善啦會做改善因為博定院院長已經講不要過度集中嘛因為這個不只過度集中了喔你是情有獨中一家獨大喔好不好所以其他的要擴大第二個"},{"start":4763.22,"end":4783.857,"text":"你的錢為什麼會增加那麼多?你的先傳費從一千一年計到一千六百九十五萬一家暴增到三千萬我們主要增加的部分跟委員報告主要是來自三個部分亞洲矽谷跟地方創生從前瞻預算移轉事情先做好比較重要不要一直大內宣這是第一個點"},{"start":4784.477,"end":4801.244,"text":"第二、不要情有獨鍾一家其他不換寡而換不均其他都要照顧到第三、不能夠編這麼多預算這個預算編這麼多我一定是大砍的好謝謝謝謝章先生委員主委請坐謝謝本席是情有獨鍾臺灣隊下一位執行請鄭正前委員"},{"start":4822.223,"end":4846.091,"text":"主席好我想請一下劉主委請國會劉主委政委你早主委好上禮拜三教育部長鄭英耀他表示說未來只會要求以全英文上英文課那這是不是表示我們國家的雙語政策在轉彎"},{"start":4849.192,"end":4864.561,"text":"主要是我們希望多花一點以教育部來講他還是希望在老師用熟悉的語言去教育學生因為當時因為我們在那個從107年行政院合併雙語政策"},{"start":4866.082,"end":4882.078,"text":"並函出2030雙語國家這願景那在當中的時候我們在110年9月的時候呢那麼國發會、教育部、人事行政總署、考選部跟公務員保障培訓委員會也提出了一個推動方案"},{"start":4882.719,"end":4901.401,"text":"它裡面很清楚的講到很多的一個目標跟現在教育部長講說只用全英文上英文課其實是一個很大的一個轉彎雖然你剛剛口頭上你沒有覺得說這是轉彎可是實際上大家都覺得它已經是轉彎了因為整個的操作跟目標就已經完全不一樣"},{"start":4902.162,"end":4926.974,"text":"那我要特別講到一個點就是說在那個因為事實上從107年核定雙語政策之後那110年開始推動的時候很多教育界的人大家都覺得這樣子這是有問題的一個雙語政策包括在112年就在公共政策網路產業平台就有超過上萬人希望能夠更改這樣的一個政策可是呢他一繼續堅持下去"},{"start":4928.095,"end":4953.087,"text":"那到前幾天的時候據說是因為我們賴清德總統他覺得說這個部分可以調整所以教育部才出來講因為賴清德從2014年在當台南市長的時候就推出了那個雙語政策到他行政院的時候呢然後來核定這個政策然後持續的往下推所以大家都覺得說現在台灣的雙語政策可能走到了一個瓶頸的一個情況"},{"start":4954.487,"end":4971.187,"text":"以目前看起來來說的時候因為原本的狀態是要用全英文去上所有的課程現在只用英文去上英文課很多老師都直接講說連中文用我們的母語在教我們的小朋友這些知識的部分的時候有些時候都沒有辦法完成你要用一個"},{"start":4972.288,"end":4999.039,"text":"外語他來教這個部分的時候顯然碰到很多的問題有很多學者提到說初步的教育政策會讓我們整個世代的學生的競爭力受到的一些影響那我想特別提到說以現在我們看到教育部提到這個情況的時候那我們國發會在後續的部分有沒有什麼樣子的一個配合或調整還是說這個部分就直接讓教育部這邊去推了"},{"start":5000.546,"end":5014.632,"text":"教育部的部分是教育部會去推那這點我們兩個其實有討論過我個人是支持鄭部長的看法是那因為所以你也覺得用英文去教美勞用英文去教體育是有問題的嘛對不對"},{"start":5018.017,"end":5046.108,"text":"這個東西就是要逐步實施了不可能再對這個讓老師會用他不熟悉的語言因為他可能用熟悉的語言都不見得教得那麼好這個就是一個最大的問題所以當時在110年的時候國發會提出了一個雙語政策推動方案的時候很多學者都覺得是有問題那本席要特別提到的狀態說我們現在如果看到一個這麼重大的一個國家的一個雙語政策都可以在這時候就是三年之後就直接轉彎了"},{"start":5047.228,"end":5062.574,"text":"那未來國外他怎麼在看臺灣這邊所推的所有的國家重大政策?我們以國安會來講我們會我們著重在於雙語的環境我們希望建立一個友善的雙語環境或者譬如說我們現在是跟超商在談"},{"start":5063.494,"end":5076.245,"text":"希望它的販售的標籤會有英文的圖案那我們希望在對 這個部分是另外一件事情因為我覺得對教育部來說這是一個很重大的一個轉變那我個人也覺得這個轉變是對的是好的"},{"start":5078.627,"end":5094.265,"text":"因為否則很多的學生、很多的老師不斷的在反映他們在整個雙語教育過程當中碰到了很多的一個瓶頸那我想特別想知道就是國發會這邊也去了解一下目前在進行中的雙語課程他在教育部這樣轉彎之後的時候後續會碰到怎麼樣的問題"},{"start":5097.689,"end":5122.731,"text":"請給本席一個很完整的書面資料包括已經招聘出來進來的一個國中小的一個雙語老師為了要怎麼樣何去何從等等的問題請給本席一個完整的資料主委另外還提到一個點就昨天國發會在財政委員會直接明白的表示就是說鼓勵授選資金投入都市捷運的一個新建"},{"start":5123.732,"end":5130.03,"text":"我想請教一個部分這個捷運的興建算包不包含包不包含輕軌"},{"start":5133.238,"end":5159.168,"text":"你是說受險基金投資公共建設那只要是公共建設受險基金認為可投資他們就會進去嗎?我的問題其實是坦白說以捷運來說為什麼特別提到輕軌是因為新竹在推大輕軌企劃可是在整個財務的試算當中碰到很大的一個瓶頸所以我想特別問如果受險基金他們覺得他們要投入這些公建的部分的時候他們要投入"},{"start":5160.328,"end":5187.233,"text":"清軌是可以的嗎?你剛剛的回答是表示投入清軌是可以的?基本上如果您看日本或是泰國的案例其實都有民間投入的像日本的三手線或是泰國的Skyline都是有民間的投入他們會賺錢阿現在台灣所有的捷運裡面只有那個台北市的藍線跟紅線賺錢其他的線都不賺錢阿北捷現在還每年虧損十幾億阿對,因為他的經濟目前我在看理解,所以我在說所以我才特別提到說我們現在如果說你覺得說清軌"},{"start":5188.633,"end":5202.657,"text":"受險業者他們也可以去投我們希望動到這三四兆的一個經費投入公件當中的時候那我想問如果他們覺得評估之後可以投的時候他們投入的金額算不算是一個地方配合款算不算地方配合款他應該是"},{"start":5209.098,"end":5229.514,"text":"這個我們可能還是問一下這個跟交通部討論一下因為現在所有地方政府在推動軌道交通當中的時候不管是捷運或者是輕軌都碰到一個財務不夠的一個問題尤其新竹市在推大新竹輕軌的時候跟新竹縣大家就沒有錢啊那如果說現在透過涉險基金的"},{"start":5230.615,"end":5246.611,"text":"額縮減資金的部分他可以投入到公件當中的時候那我們希望他能夠當作地方的一個配合款的一個部分否則地方是完全沒有錢去做這樣的一個公共政策的一個推動好不好沒錯這我們有討論過了包括竹科這條線也有業者提出來"},{"start":5248.165,"end":5261.474,"text":"好那這部分再請給本席一個很清楚的資料因為我們知道說以目前整個政府這邊的時候是希望說造源投資國家的一個發展方案所以希望能夠把它進行導入可是我們認為"},{"start":5263.331,"end":5281.17,"text":"政府可能還要給他們有更多的一個誘因否則光投入這樣子的一個軌道交通是不會賺錢的不會賺錢這些受險基金他們很難投入好的好不好好的因為我們在這次兆元投資方案裡面有一個法規調適小組所以我們到時候如果需要調適法規我們會來左手進行"},{"start":5284.08,"end":5303.169,"text":"國發會有一個Tarant台灣的一個計畫希望在2030年全球攬財40萬人我看到了一個這個大圓餅圖當中的時候我看到Tarant台灣裡面跟整個就業金卡的一個連接度不是特別的高因為目前"},{"start":5304.77,"end":5333.342,"text":"只有18.5%的人已經取得就業金而且到臺灣來那本席希望針對這個部分能夠給本席一個更完整的資料我們Tarant臺灣這邊目前大概有多少人然後要怎麼樣子跟整個就業金卡這邊做一個更好的連結讓他們真正能夠落腳在臺灣因為臺灣確實有出現很大的一個人力不足跟人才荒的問題那我們希望Tarant臺灣能夠有一個比較好的表現好的"},{"start":5333.982,"end":5334.803,"text":"地方創生提案優先部分113年7月為止"},{"start":5347.096,"end":5374.608,"text":"北部這邊有6個優先的地區都沒有新竹市我想知道在整個國發會在推動的一個地方創生計畫當中新竹市提出來多少的一個計畫申請書先跟本席一個很清楚的一個詳細的一個資料因為北區這邊的時候基本上是沒有新竹市可是我們知道地方也很努力在推我想知道目前整個地方送進來多少的申請了多少個提案然後得到多少的一個回饋給本席一個很清楚的資料"},{"start":5375.168,"end":5377.811,"text":"主委請回座下位執行請陳廷培委員謝謝主席我們請國防會主委請國防會劉主委"},{"start":5403.175,"end":5414.521,"text":"陳委員早主委早所以我想我們現在國家發展基金目前重點的支持方向大概是有三大樣五大信賴產業AI新創產業還有綠色成長淨零產業好那我先要問說那這些跟我們所謂傳產或中小企業或是文化產業會有什麼樣的一個直接關聯你要怎麼去協助他們"},{"start":5431.921,"end":5453.892,"text":"AI的基金會協助到產業的AI化我們在於像以工具機來講它需要或者是在螺絲業的自動化生產上面它都需要透過AI的協助誰去協助他們?我們是希望投資新創事業去協助他們投資新創事業去協助他們?對,因為需要有企業去協助去發展這個產業"},{"start":5457.15,"end":5469.127,"text":"可是主委你知不知道其實在我們很多傳產當他要跨到AI這個領域當中他其實有很多他有一些技術上的一個限制"},{"start":5470.526,"end":5472.207,"text":"國發基金的重點支持方向"},{"start":5487.535,"end":5516.056,"text":"五大信賴產業、AI新創產業、綠色成長精靈產業可是這些我們要怎麼跨越到讓我們的傳產可以浮至上海這也是我們國發基金非常重要的區塊否則我們看到國發基金永遠我們所支持的都是上市上櫃的公司可是轉頭看這些新創產業我們能夠得到的其實不多能夠得到我們國發基金協助的並不多"},{"start":5517.133,"end":5546.239,"text":"所以這個其實一直都是我們一個糾結在國發基金也是我們一直被質疑的部分那我們也一直在談也謝謝我們主委在一直拜託把這個資料彙整出來也就是說我們國發基金在扶植台南地區的新創及中小企業政策相關計畫措施還有目前最新辦理進度的報告終於有這份報告"},{"start":5547.728,"end":5570.328,"text":"我們過去所看到的都是一個整體可是我們完全沒有針對各地方去做一個總盤檢所以好不容易在10月份我們國發會有了這份資料我必須問這份資料請問我們可以給台南的產業有什麼樣的協助"},{"start":5572.615,"end":5585.594,"text":"我們其實有幾個方案喔第一個是我們除了有這個創業轉型基金他可以來申請就是轉型基金那第二個部分呢我們其實有設備升級的融資的輔助的"},{"start":5587.937,"end":5589.378,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院、離島建設基金、花東地區永續發展"},{"start":5615.675,"end":5630.821,"text":"這個修法的部分那天談完之後我們會重新本來是從企業併購法從那個產創條例去改那現在是跟財政部談完之後從氣併法來修改所以我們會請經濟部開始協助修動這個法令所以可能還要再"},{"start":5631.641,"end":5635.523,"text":"一個會期之後,就產業轉型基金的部分,因為他已經送件了,我們希望經過評審審核,如果能過的話,那會在年底會產生。那我們也會去協調一下那個AI基金,看能不能盡量協助產業的AI轉型。"},{"start":5651.536,"end":5673.746,"text":"主委我們把你這一份資料大概把它區分出來大概有六大項第一個是直接投資方案就是申請國發基金參與投資一億元以上而且有主導性投資人他可以來申請直接投資方案第二個叫加強投資中小企業實施方案中小企業申請國發基金參與投資未達一億者沒錯"},{"start":5677.568,"end":5698.917,"text":"第3加強投資策略性服務業實施方案也就是符合政府產業政策推動的服務業可以申請國發基金參與投資未達一億者然後加強投資策略性製造業實施方案也就是我們的製造業如果未達"},{"start":5700.137,"end":5727.584,"text":"投資一億的部分也可以來申請再來是第5項加強投資文化創意產業實施方案反符合文化創意產業發展法第3條所稱之國內文化創意產業及文創基金第6個是創業天使投資方案這個部分是最新的就是在投資2000萬以下的可以來申請天使投資方案"},{"start":5727.864,"end":5728.644,"text":"臺南企業誰知道?臺南企業誰知道?"},{"start":5746.547,"end":5762.516,"text":"誰來協助他們?沒有人知道欸我把這個資料然後問了我們台南的一些中小企業一些相關的產業我說你知道國發基金有這麼好的一個協助可以讓你們來提升讓你們來轉型嗎?其實很多人都不知道"},{"start":5768.259,"end":5782.638,"text":"這個我們來強化了因為它本來我們是全台灣每一年都會有說明會每半年一次那我們可以再強化它你們每半年一次請問你們說明會的地點在哪裡"},{"start":5783.786,"end":5812.182,"text":"我們在各縣市其實創投工業都有去啦那如果是我想針對辦我一直都強調一點不論是國發會也好經濟部也好我一直在強調你們辦說明會對象你有確定你要的對象都是當中最需要的嗎還是只是說明會應付性的反正有辦你要來就來不來就算了"},{"start":5812.896,"end":5841.513,"text":"這個我們來強化這個我們來改善這很可惜就是說其實我們有很多的方案每一次我跟中小企業在談的時候明明我們每年省的預算從經濟部到國發會都有一些協助轉型跟創新產業投資的一些專案預算可是為什麼他們永遠都得不到永遠他們計劃書送出去就是鬼打牆"},{"start":5842.748,"end":5870.639,"text":"因為他們不知道關鍵在哪裡當你不知道每個方案的關鍵你當然寫出來就沒有辦法符合到那個方案的關鍵用意跟它的用途所以這個才是一個我們每一次不斷的在提醒我們相關部會我們有專案預算我們要到位到位什麼叫到位是真正幫助需要的產業"},{"start":5872.695,"end":5890.404,"text":"委員你講的也是我有請同仁要改善的地方就是說我們應該不是只有審核我們應該含輔導協助這些申請的業者怎麼樣能夠改善他的營運計畫所以我們是不是應該建構一個平台我們要不要建構一個平台一個窗口"},{"start":5892.024,"end":5915.409,"text":"讓每一個各縣市這些從小企業他符合條件的他可以透過這個窗口來協助然後來得到訊息來得到諮詢的方向可以嗎?可以啊,可以可以是不是主委你可以去設立一個窗口這很重要否則南部說真的有諮詢落差"},{"start":5916.653,"end":5932.94,"text":"每一次我們得到的時候都是預算已經被拿完了因為我們不是無限上綱錢永遠在那邊用不完啊每年還是有一個基數在啊這個基數在用完了就不可能還有下一個案子嘛"},{"start":5933.891,"end":5960.801,"text":"所以我們是不是應該把這些基數我們在明年我們設一個窗口把這個窗口公布給所有各產業界知道各工業區知道各園區知道那麼他們就很清楚說好我今天如果有需要我要做創業轉型的時候AI轉型的時候文創轉型的時候我可以得到什麼樣的協助我可以有什麼樣的諮詢方向可不可以可以"},{"start":5961.701,"end":5961.741,"text":"請回座"},{"start":5981.317,"end":6006.849,"text":"剛剛陳秉文委員說的的確是非常重要你不是說只提出改善或者去加強你要具體的做法你要有素質你先請坐這個創農工會只集中在臺北臺中以南包括臺南包括高雄你看你扶植的這個新創產業哪有一家是南部的全部都臺北市的新北市的"},{"start":6011.561,"end":6028.875,"text":"這部分一定要有一個數值化,你要有一個具體的目標希望說你每年扶植的新創事業因為這個國家基金、天使基金投資的這個新創產業要有一半是針對中南部的這個新創事業"},{"start":6031.698,"end":6031.718,"text":"經濟委員會"},{"start":6059.11,"end":6087.413,"text":"有四位、有八位都是在中南部的三分之二都在中南部中南部新創事業微小型企業都沒有一點照顧都沒有我說的難聽點,一點照顧都沒有這間都沒有這間不行這個部分我跟陳俊輝委員還有另外的我們這些委員一定會嚴格監督未來國發基金對這個新創事業"},{"start":6089.571,"end":6118.09,"text":"對於中南部如果沒有任何的這個協助的話這一點就是你們很大的失職這個我希望主委把它當成一個很大的一個不是一個很抽象的一個描述而已所謂加強改善不是你要拿出具體的成績現在有平臺就是平臺沒有到南部去那個創投工會只有在北部嘛"},{"start":6121.807,"end":6126.63,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":6151.308,"end":6153.089,"text":"好 謝謝要具體的成績好 謝謝下位質詢請鄭天才委員怎麼樣"},{"start":6187.983,"end":6190.775,"text":"主席有請主委"},{"start":6200.086,"end":6220.871,"text":"好,主委好,這個花東地區發展條例是在民國100年這個立法院三讀通過所以花東基金從101年開始那現在已經是第4期了所以已經超過這個10幾年了在這樣一個過程當中這個明年度的預算是邁入這個第4期的第2年"},{"start":6229.909,"end":6254.432,"text":"必須也需要去檢討過去才能怎麼樣去針對明年度的預算甚至往後的年度的預算尤其是計劃的核定來做一個檢視我們看這個花東地區發展條例總共只有13條扣除第一條的立法目的以及最後一條公佈施行"},{"start":6256.006,"end":6277.706,"text":"總共9條13條,擴調2條,11條11條裡面光提到原住民的條文就3條第1個第5條原住民族群生活條件及環境改善還有第8條"},{"start":6279.242,"end":6304.608,"text":"原住民族生存保障與文化保存因依原住民族基本法規定擬定相關的這些方案推動原住民族人才培育、輔導原住民參與自然資源維護與經營管理然後這個第11條建遣原住民族部落之交通及公共運輸所以我們要檢視過去的"},{"start":6307.645,"end":6319.481,"text":"已經完成的三期到底原住民族的部分因為花蓮台東是原住民人口最多的地方"},{"start":6322.131,"end":6338.485,"text":"所以這個部分是一個很重要的各族群都有原住民的各族群都有所以在這樣的一個情形之下要去檢視然後因為整個方案都要提到國發會所審查的所以"},{"start":6343.968,"end":6353.172,"text":"國發會基於指導花蓮、台東如何均衡尤其是對於研制民主的部分更加強尤其是各鄉鎮提供各鄉鎮部會"},{"start":6363.326,"end":6371.914,"text":"提出計畫的一個機會那更是一個更是一個可以去強化的地方所以這個部分請這個國話會的同仁能夠去加強檢視這個部分好我們看這個這個為了因應這個"},{"start":6382.95,"end":6410.362,"text":"五次來水的嚴管這是本席在上一屆的時候因為0918地震的時候特別協調經濟部因為經費的不足五次來水計畫經費不足所以就請他們提報到這個國發會國發會在審查之後送到行政院也核定了這個部分這個是第一次"},{"start":6411.523,"end":6431.575,"text":"這是第一次由花東基金來去支應、去協助這個五致愛水的計畫。對,我們支應了3億。對,所以這個部分當時,當時的一個經費的配置,花東基金49多萬,然後這個7000多萬,五致愛水計畫7400多萬,總共14510萬,這是兩年的計畫,這個兩年的計畫到今年。"},{"start":6438.018,"end":6459.563,"text":"那新的就是從明年開始的這個無自來水第7供水改善計畫第5期這個也已經在國會審查之後報行政院在11月18號也核定了我之所以這個要把它提出來也是要去檢視"},{"start":6461.26,"end":6488.355,"text":"也去檢視因為現在是花東地區花東基金去投入去協助而這樣的協助要去檢視說因為這之前核定的時候因為急著需要所以沒有去檢視但是現在核定了也可以去檢視檢視什麼呢要請這個同仁第一個就是說無自來水地區的供水改善計畫"},{"start":6490.1,"end":6512.713,"text":"明年開始第5期那過去的4期過去的4期在花蓮、台東是多少的經費比如說我們就講第3期好了因為第4期有花東基金投入我們就看第3期第3期整個花東是多少經費"},{"start":6514.788,"end":6542.813,"text":"多少經費的比例在整個第3期裡面花東的經費佔多少比例是多少錢然後呢我們就要去計算這個第5期啊這個3億花東基金3億應該是要佔多少的比例所謂多少的比例是這樣啊我是擔心啊我是不希望這樣發生啊但是我們要去協助去督導"},{"start":6543.786,"end":6571.696,"text":"就是說不要因為有花東基金就全部用花東基金再投入在花東啊我第一次說你還是要有原來的第三期的那個比例我們應該是針對那個成本因為它有一個成本的那個每戶成本的那個計算多出來的部分由花東基金來投入譬如說它是這個"},{"start":6573.595,"end":6599.635,"text":"每戶單位單價成本是一百萬的話那超過的部分是由花東基金來去投入這樣才是有一個幫助我們的同仁有瞭解我的意思嗎這樣有瞭解所以這個部分是不是能夠把第三期的第三期的投入在花東的部分到底是多少經費然後它所佔的比例是多少"},{"start":6600.469,"end":6600.629,"text":"檢視第5期應該怎麼做?"},{"start":6631.269,"end":6647.799,"text":"這個也謝謝檔案管理局過去為了這個過去原住民的檔案我也曾經去過這個檔案管理局去查資料我現在就是說我曾經跟行政院要這個公文"},{"start":6648.959,"end":6677.713,"text":"因為我當初我是當處長的時候親自去參加行政院政務委員的會議而且那時候請這個人民會的主任委員去參加為了新民條例羅馬拼音的我只是舉案例不必看得那麼仔細我只是舉案例這個像這樣的一個檔案到底是怎麼樣的不能提供怎麼樣的才能夠提供"},{"start":6679.195,"end":6700.208,"text":"這個部分因為各部會的意見不太一致資料不公開不能公開還是怎麼樣像這樣的這個部分是不是好像這個洗令龍的這個老檔案都可以調出來所以這個部分是怎麼樣的才能夠怎麼樣的不行"},{"start":6701.867,"end":6727.383,"text":"一般的行稿不是機密的我譬如說我當副主委的時候到底我有沒有蓋章類似像這樣要去查的時候因為說不行資訊公開不符合資訊公開法所以這個部分是不是可以去提供後面的書面資料還是口頭再跟我講好了好好好再給你報告好好好謝謝好謝謝曾經財委員那主委請回座"},{"start":6734.585,"end":6741.529,"text":"好,下一位執行請請賴樂隆委員好,謝謝邱昭偉請這個劉主委請國會劉主委"},{"start":6758.248,"end":6784.395,"text":"主委,我先呼應剛剛昭偉跟剛剛陳立法委員的就是我覺得很多的政策還是希望能夠思考南部的思維就是因為很多中央機關是在北部那如果距離南北之間有時候南部的思維會有很大的落差我希望能夠多點南部的思維多了解南部的實際需要甚至說關注南部這個才能讓台灣均衡發展這個對國家發展才是一個"},{"start":6785.015,"end":6805.784,"text":"有利而健康我先呼籲 好的 謝謝接下來我先請教一下各機關其都看好今年度的經濟成長狀況大概到3.96甚至於會達到4%甚至到4.1%主委怎麼看我的看法大概應該是3.96是有很大的機會3.96怎樣應該是很大的機會應該沒有問題我看3.96沒有問題那破4呢或到4.1%呢"},{"start":6814.656,"end":6815.44,"text":"或是的話﹖"},{"start":6818.547,"end":6845.385,"text":"主委你們的判斷?目前看因為現在訂單都差不多了應該是有機會那甚至有的提到4.1%主委認為有機會嗎?4.1%的話4是有機會啦中華經濟研究院預估經濟長率全年可以達到4.1%主委認同這樣的看法?因為這個還是要看AI Server的出貨啦因為前一陣子因為它有過熱的現象它佔比重佔的蠻高的所以主委認為4應該是機會比較大但是4.1要看整個狀況"},{"start":6847.806,"end":6867.472,"text":"那明年度的部分呢?2025年一般預期會過3%主委的看法呢?我目前看是會過3%過3%沒問題那變數大概川普是個因素嗎?川普的一些政策?主要是川普絕對是大因素那大概哪幾個面向主委認為會影響到整個台灣的經濟成長率?"},{"start":6870.314,"end":6881.945,"text":"基本上我在看川普的變數雖然是很大如果他目前只實施對中國60%的制裁的話其實對我們來講是比較有利多的現象"},{"start":6885.828,"end":6908.175,"text":"所以對於中國的制裁的60%的部分的話對台灣對台灣是有利的會有很大的反彈效應所以法對我們的經濟成長力有可能會再提升對第二個事情他對中國是越來越鷹派所以對於技術的禁令等等都會對台灣有很大就有可能會在跟台灣的合作技術的一些移轉甚至技術取得會更大對會加強所以"},{"start":6909.515,"end":6909.936,"text":"其他國家有10%的制裁"},{"start":6925.776,"end":6951.592,"text":"這個制裁因為跟大家都差不多就是10%對全球中國以外的那唯一有一點影響的會是這個部分但是這個也是全球都有的全球都有但是一般來講以2016年來看是當時台商都是FOB我們報離岸價那美國廠商去報關所以付那個關稅但是當時因為調高太快有些廠商受不了會請台商"},{"start":6952.372,"end":6952.592,"text":"第1項第2項第3項"},{"start":6975.606,"end":6998.103,"text":"特別是他們的政策啦就有些他原型再繼續競選搶的話跟最後實際落實到底有什麼樣的落差那隨時調整我們政策來面對對這個我們有在觀察好謝謝那接下來請教一下全台的企業大家都看好台灣的國家景氣甚至也開始重視勝利啦台灣應該整個都走在正確的道路上主委同意這樣的看法吧"},{"start":6998.963,"end":7027.25,"text":"我同意整個幾乎同事我看從8年前這樣一路到那種上任之後幾乎一路在我們都是在正確的道路上對以經濟成長率跟現在的就業率來看從客觀的數據呈現也都是如此不管是包括在股市的表現包括我們的失業率3.4%整個都控制得相當好了連我們的物價的部分也都其實控制得相當的不錯目前CPI在2以下了所以我認為其實整個都是在正確的道路上"},{"start":7028.45,"end":7056.113,"text":"那我其實反而覺得接下來在這件事上反而國發會要有更多角色來做我們都希望在經濟成長好、獲利多的時候持續的來提升我們的薪資那我認為有一件事情其實國發會是可以做的國發會有國發基金也投注了相當多在各個一些上市櫃的公司國發基金能不能多去鼓勵就是我說獲利應該要回歸到員工身上讓員工的薪資提升這也是我們的目的是吧"},{"start":7057.505,"end":7083.033,"text":"是的對那我們如果期盼這樣的話國發基金能不能帶頭來做就是你在一些都有一些相關的能不能在裡面做一些要求跟提案一些優質的企業其實本身就應該帶頭來做調薪公司有好的獲益公司主動寄來調薪主委同意這樣的看法嗎同意包括我們自己其實我們現在對內部我們也是用我們已經也是一樣調到31500對我們那個我們的外包商的"},{"start":7086.374,"end":7102.932,"text":"其實都是啦我們公務員的調薪我們所有的國營企業的調薪各有多的調薪我們希望民間也跟著調薪那國發基金投注在相當多的我認為有一個政策目標我希望主動在董事會裡面主動去提案就是有好的獲利就調薪有好的獲利"},{"start":7103.352,"end":7125.132,"text":"只要大了這些條心,其他大家都會跟著調我認為要帶動國家發展基金要扮演這樣的角色主委這個可以嗎?這個可以另外同時間也希望未來透明化國家發展基金在投注的時候同時間也去要求除了你本身的未來的潛力跟那個以外同時間也要求你的資金、你的薪資透明化甚至於你在你的一個薪資的部分"},{"start":7125.692,"end":7152.686,"text":"我認為那個都可以作為是一個審查參考的依據也就是說你本身是好的獲利你本身是有潛力以外我希望你的好的獲利你的潛力你賺到的錢之後你會分到你的員工身上去讓你的人才留住讓好的企業基本上都會啦但是我希望國發會更重視這樣的原則在審查的時候讓它成為是國發基金審查的一個基本原則讓所有的優質企業都知道國發會、國發基金重視這件事情主委這個可以嗎?"},{"start":7153.486,"end":7178.468,"text":"這絕對可以,因為我們現在把ESG的分數放出來把它納入到你們的辦法裡面好嗎?沒問題這兩件事情我希望立即有成果一個禮拜內給我你們最後的處理方式好不好我希望納入到你的辦法裡面同時間在董事會裡面來做正式的提案過是一回事但是國發會的態度告訴大家有獲利了我們希望你把薪資回歸到員工身上多帶頭來調薪好不好"},{"start":7180.109,"end":7183.411,"text":"領口新創園已經上軌道,國發會在高雄經濟部做了雅灣新創園,我希望國發會更加大力道支持。"},{"start":7197.717,"end":7213.015,"text":"定期每3個月給我一次你們投入的一些報告給我好嗎?好的好最後一題啦齁時間也快到了主委地方創生我認為其實相當重要啦齁那整個這幾年地方創生幾乎也達到將近提案率有達到7成我認為其實"},{"start":7214.296,"end":7215.197,"text":"其中一項提案能力或資源相對弱一些"},{"start":7237.089,"end":7263.395,"text":"來南部走走來跟這些創生團隊談一下來聽聽他們的聲音同時用更多的力氣來支援他們來做地方創生提案好嗎好的沒問題好謝謝主委謝謝這個代委員時間掌握的精準啊令人敬佩主委請回座我們在楊瓊瑜委員質詢完之後我們會休息下位質詢請"},{"start":7267.578,"end":7287.342,"text":"因為10點半大家都可能要去洗手間下一位質詢請楊瓊英委員謝謝主席楊瓊英委員請主委請國會的劉主委"},{"start":7297.7,"end":7311.332,"text":"委員早主委好我們針對於促進人力資源發展跟推動人口以及移民政策強化整個延攬國際人才的這個部分我們來討論我看到在你114年的預算裡頭你編列了8900萬元那我們據各種產業的主管在112年下半年度他陸續發布"},{"start":7321.661,"end":7327.064,"text":"從113年到115年的重點產業人才供需的調查跟推估112年辦理的成果我們發覺有18個重點產業當中就有8種8項的產業廠商反映了人才不足這是佔多數而且在IC設計"},{"start":7344.435,"end":7368.362,"text":"智慧機械以及數位醫療這個產業約有7成以上的廠商一致反映人才不足在這樣的情況之下本席首先要請教面對重點產業人力不足的問題那國防會你要嚴引怎麼樣的一個因應方案比如說是不是會加強延攬外國專業人才來提升我們整個的產業競爭力請做說明"},{"start":7373.684,"end":7387.926,"text":"是的,我們對於外國專業人才我們修訂的法令我們會更寬鬆的調整我們的吸引力那目前我們即將會進入那個預覽期另外我們也對什麼時候會預覽?"},{"start":7389.417,"end":7402.651,"text":"我們現在還有一些細節的部分你的時間大概什麼時候會公布呢?因為這個本席跟你討論過很多次我們也希望現在是無國界所有全世界的人才要怎麼樣去交流請問你們預估什麼時候會預覽?"},{"start":7405.66,"end":7426.195,"text":"我們預估應該還要再三個禮拜,原因是我解釋一下,我們現在臨時加入了中階人才進到這個法條裡面,再增加一個中階人才,那中階人才主要是對一些技術工,那我們現在發現其實勞工進來是不能解決技術問題,所以我們希望對中階人才,就類似工程師類的"},{"start":7428.337,"end":7434.519,"text":"對,像旱階,譬如說具5年工作經驗的旱階工等等那現在對這個定義我們希望定義得更清楚所以預計在3個禮拜後就是下個月月中就在12月中可以去公告外國這個專業人才的一個"},{"start":7445.158,"end":7460.776,"text":"對 因為我們專業人才的部分已經修法完成了我們現在只是等待中階人才的部分對 所以這個呢我希望我們一定要積極因為沒有人才你什麼都做不了了而且我們的產業需求量是這麼的大加油那接下來本期要跟你討論績效管理的問題"},{"start":7461.917,"end":7467.866,"text":"在你的114年裡頭你的績效管理那你向下是編列1628萬2000元那在這個當中我們看到本席覺得邏輯很奇怪107年到112年你總共有23項是緩半"},{"start":7478.18,"end":7493.57,"text":"或者是停辦那這個每一年你都有緩辦跟停辦跟預警機制到現在你唯一曾列入退場評估的有兩項第一個整建長照衛福這個據點計畫第二個是建構0到2歲兒童社區公共托育計畫這兩項"},{"start":7501.875,"end":7516.065,"text":"但是你雖然有納入評估停辦但是你到目前為止還是在執行中沒有一家退場沒有一家退場本席非常的重視教育本席也非常的重視長者這個目前這兩項都是在我們的地方裡頭非常熱烈迫切需要為什麼在我們的地方這麼需求你竟然會曾經要列入它停辦"},{"start":7527.012,"end":7549.266,"text":"而且本席不知道到底你們現在的政策方向到底是怎麼樣所以本席要跟你討論的就是說你的整個預警機制怎麼跟我們的地方會落差那麼大呢你的執行效率到底是怎麼樣你既然預警要停辦唯一兩項又是本席最重視的"},{"start":7551.841,"end":7558.87,"text":"這個太奇怪了那你們在疫情之際到底出了什麼問題呢?你現有的退漲條件你要怎麼去調整?"},{"start":7561.056,"end":7588.95,"text":"請說明我這個我想委員講得很好我們這個當時列入這個配上主要是他執行的進度是有落差那達到達到一定的程度但是因為這兩件事就像您講的這是非常重要的事所以因為他非常重要所以我們現在並沒有真正實施本期具體要求你要把你的預警必須要跟我們的社會面向要能夠吻合您剛才主委說的是因為他的績效不好"},{"start":7590.511,"end":7600.519,"text":"那當然你在整個執行的過程當中社會需求執行效果不好問題出在哪裡你申請的條件到底是怎麼樣你應該從這邊去討論而不是直接把它列列到這個退場機制這個讓人家看了會嚇一跳啊"},{"start":7607.085,"end":7615.033,"text":"沒錯我們現在正在調整中因為當時是很多地方像長照來講他先申請然後又發現條件不符或者你承認需要調整是嗎對我們會調整畢竟是要調整多久時間去調整方案出來給本席"},{"start":7623.27,"end":7641.091,"text":"這個讓人家嚇一跳啊我們這個一個月內給你書面報告一個月內去將你的預警機制監督機制去調整好送出來好不好不要讓基層不知所措啊這個長照跟這個幼兒是最重要的竟然是列在國發會的推"},{"start":7642.953,"end":7667.869,"text":"退場機制笑話真的笑話接下來本席跟你討論半導體人才的這個問題本席要請教半導體學院呢竟然大專院校有人說據媒體報導說我們有去指揮人家要怎麼做要怎麼做有這回事嗎沒有啊因為我們官方經營人根本就忙不過來了你忙不過來沒有這回事你有沒有看到報導這麼報導"},{"start":7670.604,"end":7698.037,"text":"呃...我沒有看到,但我...那你們不是有情報...有這個...這個...每天的新聞情收嗎?本席具體建議,如果你們確實沒有去干涉,那你應該要提出聲明,對不對?不要讓各大專院下...大家有所恐慌啊,是不是?是的所以本席要請教喔,那個...呃...我們郭部長說,台積電每一年要在台灣蓋一座廠,對不對?"},{"start":7699.975,"end":7723.531,"text":"就他這幾天的言論對那在這樣的情況之下我們不管是大學或者是半導體的學院這些人才的需求都是非常的需要都是非常的需要所以我們想要請教這些的缺口每一年要一座台積電更何況還有很多的產業很多的公司他也會設啊"},{"start":7724.472,"end":7743.826,"text":"那你的人才跟目前你在培育的你的KPI你怎麼做你預估你的人才缺口大概會有多少半島體的人才我們現在預估一年要有至少要有6000人一年至少要有6000人對對對而且是逐步在增加對不對"},{"start":7745.527,"end":7769.702,"text":"每一年要增加對每一年要成長那如果像這個主任你所說的你了解這個產業那你人才你的來源要怎麼來我們有跟這些主要的廠商密切在關注他的設廠時間跟招募時間那我們基本上以學校為主那另外還有就是你現在看到的重點領域的學生為主"},{"start":7771.903,"end":7789.379,"text":"那這個目前來講目前以國內來講半導體的供給量是比較夠但它產生了對其他產業的反擊效應所以我們跟這個相關的部會有在探討這些事情所以這個呢人才非常重要本期還是具體建議缺口的部分你要怎麼樣"},{"start":7790.84,"end":7816.861,"text":"要有循序漸進的方案去去把它補足之那整體的一個人才要怎麼樣去做調配我想這是國防會你很重要的一個課題好不好你去研擬然後把方案給本席好的好嗎謝謝好謝謝楊前議員主委請回座現在我們休息休息時間6分鐘必要時延長2分鐘"},{"start":7823.796,"end":7834,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位"},{"start":7851.67,"end":7858.117,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":7876.513,"end":7886.179,"text":"三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院總預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":7904.426,"end":7907.269,"text":"第2項議員委員會及所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":7922.066,"end":7938.641,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算部分關於行政院主管及所屬單位預算部分關於行政院主管及所屬單位預算部分關於行政院主管及所屬單位預算部分關於行政院主管及所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":7947.027,"end":7969.718,"text":"所以我想說董事長你跟我們講那個產業總統你剛剛講的那個是18億還是30億對啊,他們怎麼輸到現在沒有沒有,我們都是31億啊他們要申請還有我們都可以啊都可以啊沒有,還是只有自己那個已經送案了啦那個他們要申請公司,送案大概就是那個董事長、副議員、林秦鴻、林啟鴻這些人在附屬"},{"start":7983.14,"end":7983.961,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金、花東地區永續發展"},{"start":8016.063,"end":8038.628,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金、花東地區永續發展基金、花東地區永續發展基金、花東地區永續發展基金、花東地區永續"},{"start":8046.197,"end":8059.027,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算"},{"start":8070.506,"end":8096.988,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":8105.844,"end":8118.671,"text":"第1項第2項第3項第4項第5項第6項第7項第8項第9項第10項第11項第12項第13項第14項第15項第16項第17項第18項第19項第19項第20項第21項第22項第23項第24項第25項第26項第27項第28項第29項第30項第31項第32項第33項第34項第35項第36項第37項第38項第39項第40項第41項第42項第42項第43項第44項第45項第46項第47項第47項第48項第48項第49項第49項第50項第50項"},{"start":8150.814,"end":8158.198,"text":"第2項議員會及所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":8160.566,"end":8171.437,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算"},{"start":8179.368,"end":8181.47,"text":"第2項議員會議第1項議員會議第2項議員會議"},{"start":8201.767,"end":8209.473,"text":"委員會及所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":8231.851,"end":8232.253,"text":"第2項第3項第4項第5項"},{"start":8236.817,"end":8245.099,"text":"委員會及所屬單位預算部分關於行政委員會及所屬單位預算部分關於行政委員會及所屬單位預算部分關於行政委員會及所屬單位預算部分關於行政委員會及所屬單位預算"},{"start":8266.704,"end":8273.386,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":8292.951,"end":8304.317,"text":"第1項第2項第3項第4項第5項第6項第7項第8項第9項第10項第11項第12項第13項第14項第15項第16項第17項第18項第19項第19項第20項第21項第22項第23項第24項第25項第26項第27項第28項第29項第30項第31項第32項第33項第34項第35項第36項第37項第38項第39項第40項第41項第42項第42項第43項第44項第45項第46項第47項第47項第48項第49項第49項第50項第50項第51項"},{"start":8326.913,"end":8327.333,"text":"邱志偉委員"},{"start":8346.02,"end":8371.976,"text":"各位,我想剛剛提到就是說這個國家發展基金不是北台灣發展基金國家基金它所有投資應該是要遍布於全台灣所以我再跟你說經濟委員會14個委員有9位是中南部所以我們全力支持這個國家基金全力支持國家發展預算那你們在國家基金分配的時候"},{"start":8373.529,"end":8394.208,"text":"應當要多重視中南部像你看你的直接投資你的投資計畫裡面包括直接投資創投投資跟創業天子投資總共加起來大概將近一千億一年了對不對你們告訴我你直接投資大概這將近八百億中南部企業的比例大概有多少大概啦"},{"start":8395.942,"end":8401.206,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金、花東地區永續發展中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金、花東地區永續發展中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算基金、花東地區永續發展"},{"start":8424.281,"end":8449.921,"text":"我們在高雄...不是,請問一下,等一下,會議暫停所以我要求這個審預算,執密一定要來,這個執密為什麼沒有來?這誰先暫停?他剛剛有來啦那現在執密呢?他會議期間為什麼會不見?他現在因為有...你要跟主席請假啊他之前三次都沒有請假三次我主持會議他都沒有來"},{"start":8451.175,"end":8476.016,"text":"那我現在找他,我現在問他,執密在哪裡?主委,你連執密都管不到,你要怎麼管文化基金?對,因為他是說有會議啦有會議要跟主席講阿是是是如果不要跟我講,也要跟他蔡宇宇講,現在他代理主席阿對,欸?就我了解有請假,核准的哪有請假?"},{"start":8478.673,"end":8499.787,"text":"駕單在哪裡?沒有駕單委員會有沒有說到?有沒有口頭項目指示?這個我先會議暫停,等一下來之後我們繼續開會在哪裡?他為什麼可以不告而別?藐視立法院、藐視經濟委員會、藐視會議主席這個"},{"start":8508.956,"end":8533.055,"text":"主委,你這個內部的指,主管管理你可能要你不要以為在立法院隨便來混混是,這個我很抱歉,這個我們可能執命不在,他管國家基金執命不在你不知道他早上,剛才是有來啦,剛才是有來他有來他要離開也要跟主席請假啊對,是他,沒錯"},{"start":8540.323,"end":8566.107,"text":"到底能去哪裡?那有沒有跟主委?主委你知道他請假嗎?你不知道請假他請假?連你都不知道他請假?難怪國發基金管理成這樣子我已經剛才我坐在那邊我當主席的時候我就告訴你說國發基金我很重視不要變成北台灣發展基金 對不對?"},{"start":8568.018,"end":8593.423,"text":"我就先跟你預告說我會問這個問題主席我們是不是等執密來我們再開會你可以先宣布休息有請他來了還有多久我們不能等他所有委員在等一個執密"},{"start":8601.164,"end":8626.389,"text":"這個本席是很少動怒的我像是翁文如雅我是就事論事我不是對人預算諮詢你如果業務報告你沒有關係預算諮詢你請假固然可以請假是你的權利但是你也要經過主席投議你也要不管書面口都要講一下嘛"},{"start":8628.319,"end":8630.58,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院地區永續發展基金、花東地區永續發展"},{"start":8651.243,"end":8652.163,"text":"那還是我們先休息。"},{"start":8684.582,"end":8704.593,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":8727.486,"end":8732.287,"text":"我現在休息時間我先讀有意義嗎?等重新開會後再說規定慢一下休息期間"},{"start":8910.669,"end":8913.172,"text":"請主委是不是先回座位休息"},{"start":9110.343,"end":9110.364,"text":"第2項議員會議"},{"start":9219.748,"end":9220.398,"text":"委員會及所屬單位預算"},{"start":9312.646,"end":9313.484,"text":"委員會及所屬單位預算"},{"start":9368.874,"end":9370.825,"text":"委員會及所屬單位預算"},{"start":9501.792,"end":9502.599,"text":"委員會及所屬單位預算"},{"start":9652.09,"end":9656.372,"text":"好那我們繼續開會那這個邱志偉委員的資訊時間重新計算請邱志偉"},{"start":9684.93,"end":9710.215,"text":"主委請問今天的議審是什麼?今天的議審是審預算、審國發費的預算跟基金預算。國發費有沒有包括國家發展基金?寒了。對。預算是很重要。是的。關稅到全年的運作。那國發基金主管人員是誰?除了你之外,誰負責國發基金?我們的汪子密。那為什麼汪子密不在?你知道嗎?"},{"start":9711.36,"end":9736.676,"text":"主委,您知道嗎?你不知道?對,因為我早上有看到他執迷,這個是我們內部重要的國家發展基金的預算審查,很多問題要請教你我諸事主持會議,你都沒有親自出席,你都請傅執迷出席"},{"start":9737.997,"end":9764.66,"text":"國會請副執行長轉告你說希望你在預算審查你一定要出席是剛剛我要質詢你要請教你幾個問題是就你不在然後我問主委主委說不清楚去哪裡他不清楚第一個你沒有行政論理的觀念連你主管都不知道你去哪裡在國會你當作兒戲第二點你對國會不尊重"},{"start":9766.75,"end":9781.439,"text":"預算審查是國會的職權對行政部門的監督是年度的大事這個會期最重要的是預算審查國發化基金何等重要對產業的支持、對新創的支持對地方發展的支持你對國會不夠重視另外你對主席也藐視"},{"start":9792.244,"end":9793.965,"text":"委員這是我們內部的錯他有在內部請假了但是可能我們到這邊來的程序有問題"},{"start":9821.444,"end":9845.314,"text":"從這事情來看阿我覺得這個國會內部的管理阿主委你要再多用點心阿是的是的我很少會為這種事情生氣那我不希望這種事情會影響到你們這個預算的審查如果連你這個執行秘書對你的國發基金預算都不重視的話國會怎麼又去支持你的預算呢所有的國發基金只有你最了解嘛"},{"start":9851.533,"end":9879.934,"text":"主委剛上來他怎麼可能了解國家基金到底是目前執行狀況怎麼樣呢?你的報告裡面你的所有投資計畫投資計畫裡面今年度你針對這個所有投資計畫裡面對中南部投資你到底有多少?我問主委,主委他不可能知道嘛一定要執密嘛直接投資、創投投資跟創業天使投資是你的重大投資計畫"},{"start":9881.502,"end":9904.663,"text":"我告訴你14位經濟委員會委員9位是來自中南部對中南部的這個相關的產業支持是國家發展基金該有的這個基本思維所以我要問你突然問這個主委他當然沒辦法答出來那我現在問你你這個中南部企業的比例直接投資今年度是多少"},{"start":9905.811,"end":9929.292,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":9929.772,"end":9952.69,"text":"這3年我們在高雄辦了14場的這個說明會平均每年大概辦5場但我們還是覺得不夠因為只要有我們新創部不夠了解都是我們的責任比例是多少?比例是多少?對中南部的比例是多少?直接投資的部分對中南部的比例的這個投資我想讓我們回去精算一下以這個中南部加起來的話目前來講87件是佔7.3%你看7.3%而已"},{"start":9959.272,"end":9970.63,"text":"其實很害怕你要怎麼面對這個經濟委員會14位委員來自9位是中南部的創投投資的部分呢?你們來之前這些數字都要準備好是"},{"start":9971.85,"end":10000.481,"text":"創投投資的部分創投的部分跟委員報告多數的創投我們投國內跟國外目前手上有63家創投那國外的這個佔了大概三分之一那國內的這個部分多數的創投因為臺北市金融中心所以中南部有沒有中南部的創投沒有嘛創業天使投資都是集中在臺北嘛對不對所以你所有投資計畫裡面基本上投資在中南部的少是右手"},{"start":10001.462,"end":10029.499,"text":"奉毛領餃兼累計將近1000億投資到底有多少在中南部所以你們要檢討說你們投資的項目你們投資的方向投資的區域應該做得公平化要平衡均衡發展嘛委員會做一個優化的計畫跟您報告我親自跟您報告所以我想這是基本態度問題"},{"start":10032.268,"end":10059.822,"text":"這個公務人員包括在政府不管是在立法部門或行政部門為官制到在人人賴就是人就是說對事情你要盡心盡力對你的部署你要善待你的部署這樣才會國強民富嘛而不是自己的責任你不釐清也不好好把你的工作做好這樣不行"},{"start":10061.338,"end":10070.785,"text":"國家發展基金、離島建設基金、花東地區永續發展國家發展基金、離島建設基金、花東地區永續發展國家發展基金、離島建設基金、花東地區永續發展國家發展基金、離島建設基金、花東地區永續發展"},{"start":10093.035,"end":10113.582,"text":"跟委員抱歉我們會來改善因為他有請假的確但是內部因為沒有溝通到這裡來所以造成這個我想我們整個流程會重新檢討跟委員再次道歉我這個是這樣子基本上我很少生氣生氣我是對事不對人"},{"start":10115.168,"end":10139.793,"text":"我肯定植民的能力但您的處理事情的態度我認為是有欠思慮不周了我來檢討螺絲業植民你先回座螺絲業是傳統產業面臨兩年的寒冬明年可能又會更大的風暴"},{"start":10141.209,"end":10162.598,"text":"不能完全把國家的資源集中在半導體或者這個AI要更多的資源去協助這個傳統產業的轉型跟螺絲擴建就如此我看不到有任何資金的挹注或者是這個轉型的這些計畫來協助屬於在中南部比較傳統的產業這個主委您覺得對螺絲"},{"start":10168.891,"end":10196.771,"text":"你的想法呢?這個產業我會找經濟部做一個檢討因為主要是這個產業目前兩種一種走高質化到職牙跟太空另外一個走經濟規模現在的規模過小時間到我就要暫停執行我剛剛所提我請教你的希望你再用書面資料給我另外最中東歐投資跟融資目前執行狀況是的好的這部分也提供書面資料給我"},{"start":10201.681,"end":10204.323,"text":"我是沒有生氣也沒有動怒我是有點難過而已"},{"start":10225.691,"end":10242.697,"text":"我相信理直氣和不一定大聲但是該追究的責任我想主委還是要去了解一下我希望以後不要再發生這件事情主管能源對他的預算一定要用最大的努力來爭取下一位質詢請謝鳳委員"},{"start":10257.689,"end":10261.412,"text":"謝謝主席。我想請我們劉主委。請國會劉主委。劉主委有驚到嗎?參譜上台你有驚到嗎?"},{"start":10275.578,"end":10277.5,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":10294.66,"end":10318.093,"text":"在這次選戰所主張的經濟民主主義還要提高關稅對其他地區是10%對中國大陸是60%那對於我剛才看了相關的數字相關的模型的眼裡那當然對於中國的經濟會重創但是你必須要思考有非常多的"},{"start":10319.653,"end":10346.994,"text":"臺灣的傳產以及高科技產業目前都在中國大陸發展那過去我們臺灣有百分之30%的這個出口是對大陸那對大陸以後有可能他們又怎麼樣子又銷售往美國那所以會嚴重的重創臺灣的經濟你講的也許會加速他們回流"},{"start":10347.754,"end":10368.231,"text":"那但是真的會回流到台灣嗎?所有的台商除了台灣以外在上一次上一次同樣情況川普當選的時候對於香港對於新加坡的經濟是重創比台灣更嚴重的情況"},{"start":10369.472,"end":10388.017,"text":"那這一次人家會不會已經做好準備了?新加坡會不會已經做好準備了?臺商一定要移往、移回臺灣嗎?他不會移往臺灣以外的東南亞的第三季例如馬來西亞會不會?"},{"start":10390.633,"end":10417.931,"text":"台商會多元的發展它的新供應鏈那目前來講它會是在目前看起來東南亞是越南跟泰國為主那另外在北美的部分是以這個墨西哥與德州為主那現在也有部分開始移往東歐所以看起來全球化的佈局會更因應這個保守主義的興起會更積極的全球化在台商的運作裡面當然也一部分會到台灣來"},{"start":10419.795,"end":10444.933,"text":"對還有現在美國他所要做的就是提高他核能提高他核能增加兩倍200預計要增加200GW在這樣子的情況下未來美國還是AI的研發重鎮那台灣呢"},{"start":10446.544,"end":10467.073,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":10467.827,"end":10493.852,"text":"他們注重的是經濟民主主義會不會退出WTO他會不會如果這樣子臺灣依賴出口ICT半導體所依據的WTO裡面的ITA的相關的協定的租稅免稅協定到時候會不會變成另外一個關稅的障礙會不會"},{"start":10497.104,"end":10518.155,"text":"如果美國退出的話?如果美國退出當然要看川普的政策但是臺灣的產品多數是零件跟替美國公司組裝再回到美國啦那最大的影響的廠商以目前來看還是以美國廠商受傷會比較重所以我想川普也會深思這個部分"},{"start":10518.942,"end":10542.971,"text":"因為他在2016年那次他在調整關稅的時候他其實有一個公開閱覽讓民眾來提出來哪些會已經造成通膨影響內部民生所以那些當時是有拿掉所以當時他快速的提高這個稅制的時候並沒有造成民生物資的大幅的改變所以我們也在觀察這一次是不是他也會很理性的處理這件事情"},{"start":10543.371,"end":10568.642,"text":"所以你認為他退出的就是說退出WTO就是我們還的那個可能性是很低的是不是不能說低啦但是大家會面臨的狀況會一樣但是他如果退出想要再提高稅制他會有內部的一個充分的討論那你是說你上次來看所以還是有這樣子相關的風險性存在是不是是存在的"},{"start":10569.79,"end":10597.101,"text":"那對於臺灣呢你知道就是說目前臺灣的產業已經面臨了就是K型的高科技的發展的越好傳產的就越來越差在這一次提高關稅美國提高關稅其實有很大的會影響到的就是傳產那對於我們的精密機械我們工具機的影響呢"},{"start":10598.742,"end":10627.095,"text":"要分開來看如果我們最大競爭對手在對岸的話那對岸會是60%的關稅提升我們是10%那10%因為它是對於中國以外的國家所以是一個齊頭式的拉動所以在比較利益上我們還是有反而相較於中國拉動60%的關稅來看如果我們的競爭對手是對岸的像工具機或者是螺絲扣件業那多少會有比較好的對工具機好處會多一點"},{"start":10628.086,"end":10639.449,"text":"就是說那怎麼樣子再加大這個力道呢?再加大讓我們就是說因應這個關稅的變化讓我們的傳產能夠在這個期間內能夠急速的上升呢?我有找郭部長討論我們希望開始跟傳產進行座談那我們會加快這個座談跟討論那怎麼樣進行?"},{"start":10655.462,"end":10681.303,"text":"原則上我們會請工業領袖或是企業領袖大家一起坐下來討論對,因為你沒有創造環境啊你沒有創造這樣子的經濟發展的環境啊我看到了相關的週刊的報導你說你要做的是一個大國發會但是我看到啦過去國發會大國發會是媒體下的標題不是我個人的意見這個我還是要澄清一下"},{"start":10681.843,"end":10706.753,"text":"不是你個人意見是不是因為我看到的是現在行政院裡面有三個就是經濟發展委員會下面有三個有創新經濟、有均衡台灣、有包容成長結果就把你原本國發會的怎樣一分為三是不是你只是三分之一而已還有其他兩個"},{"start":10707.773,"end":10708.013,"text":"國發會的功能性已經不如過去"},{"start":10728.358,"end":10756.416,"text":"過去在永續會對於淨零碳排現在移到總統府去了啊對不對那國發會呢國發會現在進行的就是你們相關的基礎建設嗎我們的工作內容還是沒有變啊因為執行還是要到部會所以我們還在部會上面那上面只是從政策的引導給我們一些指導我們但是在整個執行面還是在部會之間所以我們原來的功能並沒有消失啦"},{"start":10757.176,"end":10757.496,"text":"下一位質詢請陳昌明委員"},{"start":10791.69,"end":10795.335,"text":"主席好徐席怒他現在有請我們國會我們劉志偉請國會劉志偉"},{"start":10806.281,"end":10829.132,"text":"陳委員早其實啊我們的召委邱召委是很有理性很謙和的人那今天發生這樣的事情真的是國會要檢討檢討是的好不好是的那我今天第一個我首先要感謝國會對於行政院核定陶芷淼大溪谷計畫"},{"start":10830.529,"end":10846.9,"text":"尤其國發會特別的支持我們苗栗縣結果我們爭取了主覽科學研期第二期、投入科學研期還有貨農產業專業研期特別的感謝你還有我們國土發展次"},{"start":10847.68,"end":10872.185,"text":"我們的黃處長還有彭副主任再次謝謝啊容乃要繼續給我們幫忙跟協助好不好是的謝謝你來表現你來看我們苗栗實在是很有發展的地方比南部還要好不要天天顧著南部那一個地點是會花絕的寶所以請你一定要多多的跟我們關心支持是的第二點"},{"start":10874.354,"end":10897.421,"text":"剛剛我聽了賴若瑋委員談到地方創生其實地方創生是上山下海那我今天也特別感謝我們黃次長在苗栗縣配合的三個景點都非常的成功我特別感謝他那今天我為什麼感謝他因為他真的陪著上山下海他到地方又不怎麼講話"},{"start":10898.641,"end":10915.78,"text":"我在旁邊問他的意見他又很客氣但是每一次提的意見非常的中困所以在地方暢順上我們在苗栗縣有很大發展我再大力的推展我一直跟黃社長說你也跟你們主委說一下"},{"start":10916.661,"end":10935.061,"text":"你也編一個規劃費用可行性評估,給地方開始財政有困難的地方,給他們地方營造一個真正的一個好的規劃。這台電動電有很多。所以,劉主委,這點我要給你清心體驗,而且我是親自去推動的。"},{"start":10935.982,"end":10964.507,"text":"我希望這個兩天就進去有一個顧問會用可行性評估對地方的幫忙很大地方創生財會繼續的推動,這樣好不好?我們會來用示範的方式來考慮啦,我想是不是說我找個時間找一個要求來看?你找個時間我就要跟你說內部啦,不然你怎麼做我自己知道,又不便你講講的話就得罪了很多"},{"start":10967.481,"end":10981.188,"text":"一些團體還有一些人再來我一件問題叫你做科研你都沒什麼在關心我看了一個報導說國華會10年新高國華會通過114年公建預算2405億交通建設占過半"},{"start":10993.192,"end":11003.424,"text":"這台列5項就是在114年的公務共建設預算跟前瞻予期,前瞻予期有"},{"start":11005.314,"end":11024.94,"text":"幾百億你知道嗎?有啊!七百多億啊!七百零三億啊!七百零三億啊!現在就剩下差不多一千七百億的工啊!但是我等一下就跟你說啊!我說拜託拜託!這個資料給我!你把我的花東耳邊封!我下次招委我就要叫來修繪了我跟你講!"},{"start":11026.642,"end":11055.169,"text":"這裏面我要你說各部會提出266項的計劃。前瞻第5期是49項的公共建設計劃。我說叫你大的項目內給我,你們無動於衷啊。有啦,我執行你去看一下。我怎麼要挨借呢?你大的計劃出來,我才能看預算師,比較容易找到重點。"},{"start":11057.042,"end":11079.571,"text":"關於財政困難我能爭取多一點大概兩個禮拜給我算是說要兩個禮拜給我又沒有又透過兩個月了再兩個禮拜給你好不好我今天就給你啦阿不!這樣我感謝你開始問一下管理顧問當時剛出來有這個經驗在嗎不然好謝謝黃市長我要再來跟你說我今天看到一個新聞"},{"start":11088.143,"end":11104.461,"text":"我覺得說韓國把軍工企業外銷到波蘭哪裡很多將近超過500億美金我回家我就想到一些問題那你曉得我們國外基金有投資到中鋼的那個是吧"},{"start":11110.955,"end":11136.411,"text":"審查海域的公司有6、14億兩年這樣都開掉一年了10億但是我看他們發的新聞稿我覺得很悲哀說你台灣的資助率你又把它取消掉我覺得很莫名其妙中鋼真的沒有什麼如果這樣的作為四季鋼小公司人家一直這樣做過來"},{"start":11138.332,"end":11142.873,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院所屬單位預算部分關於行政院主管"},{"start":11158.138,"end":11179.899,"text":"他的團隊裏面很多南部的勢力太深了中港在南部地方是插手的很多這裏面牽扯很多問題今天要解決這個問題我建議周偉啊你要把中港那個什麼達星達、海基啊要弄好排一個考察"},{"start":11180.8,"end":11197.963,"text":"排一個世紀綱排一個中綱去考察你比較出來就能了解問題之所在我排過了你沒去啊不是你排過我怎麼不曉得你也沒有通知我去我上次你以後要找專家我連專家過去你要兩個比較一下就能發覺問題在哪裡那你們還要不要繼續投資新黨海基嗎我們現在我們已經"},{"start":11211.072,"end":11234.315,"text":"不會再加碼了對!這一點我就贊成一間大公司請他決定做出來比小公司還不止中鋼真的要檢討不能投資還有不能投資他什麼綠電的買賣平台硬的不行還要吃軟的中鋼這麼沒有骨氣啊中鋼未來的經營也要特別的注意啊"},{"start":11235.785,"end":11257.572,"text":"我希望這一點要特別注意還有國產自治化現在說要開放您講是在損壞台灣的資金出賣台灣那歐洲公司WTO說要告我們怕什麼?川普保護旨意就出來了自由貿易跟保護旨意現在在戰內你怕什麼?"},{"start":11259.946,"end":11269.142,"text":"你給歐洲人一直要威脅、恐嚇你們就下來還跟他搭配其實他們要的就是這些東西你知道他們給"},{"start":11271.129,"end":11299.163,"text":"我以前提過了好幾次啊中港真的不爭氣你欠漢港漢港你曉得司機去港的漢接了工人找不到他從哪裡越南跳過來那個社會上你的學問這麼多你怎麼想成那個劉志輝你執行管理"},{"start":11300.662,"end":11327.119,"text":"顧問公司的董事長,我相信你很了解民生的安排運作。是,我了解。好不好,這一點再來啦。啊,我們只要講啊,你連風電都遮不住,韓國、台北、金工企業,你如何去抗中保台,每天都要跟我們講抗中保台。風電都遮不住,要如何抗中保台?我實在也想不通啊。"},{"start":11328.4,"end":11352.206,"text":"他也點頭了不要天天喊抗中擺台我們實力搶最重要我們稍微好謝謝你又站起來了我現在很怕你你站起來萬一我不下台你就生氣了我不會生氣我只是這個讓議事順利進行好請主委回座"},{"start":11353.917,"end":11358.969,"text":"其實本席沒有生氣啦我也沒有動怒我只是希望說議事能夠順利進行讓預算審查能夠能夠順利我的出發點是這樣子"},{"start":11364.298,"end":11392.135,"text":"很像是對事不對人所有的這個國外的同仁也應該是為自己所屬單位的預算全力去爭取這是本來就是你們的職責之所在如果質詢所有人不在當然這個對對質詢委員是有點不太尊重希望大家彼此互相互相尊重好下一位質詢請李玉玲召委"},{"start":11400.618,"end":11403.599,"text":"謝謝主席請劉主委請國安會劉主委主委劉委員早賴總統他在上任的時候有提出了這個五大信賴產業同時也宣布了要延長這個我們臺灣的投資三大方案也宣示了要讓我們的半導體還有AI的產業作為主軸"},{"start":11428.647,"end":11434.99,"text":"所以要讓不管是外商還是台商都能有意願的回來投資臺灣在這一方面的話我們國發會也提出了國家發展的計畫尤其在這發展的計畫裡面總體經濟發展的目標未來這4年經濟的成長率會在2.8到3.6%這邊然後失業率的話平均會在3.2到3.5%"},{"start":11452.917,"end":11455.699,"text":"核心消費物價指數上漲率平均2%以下,尤其是117年會達到人均GDP超過4萬美元本期想請問的就是,主委,你怎麼樣去設定目標,是依據什麼?"},{"start":11473.317,"end":11494.064,"text":"我們是依據這個情勢的研判跟這個情勢的研判那以目前來講我們的經濟成長今年應該是3.96到4之間失業率目前是在3.47左右那核心的通膨一直在1.8以下所以你是知道以前的數據嗎就看以前的數據就對了整個社會的不全然還有經濟的發展經濟的發展好"},{"start":11501.866,"end":11507.108,"text":"那你這因為你訂出的這些目標齁我剛才念了你訂的這些目標但是我們看到在110年到113年的時候你們的經濟成長率啊大概平均平均在這個3.3到3.7但是你看到111年到112年啊你們這個平均值啊就是數字都已經是是沒有達標的情形是不是那你又依照這個那你又訂的更高"},{"start":11527.737,"end":11537.026,"text":"那尤其是這個CPI這個部分的話你看到你的上漲率你要控制在這個1.0到1.5但是在這個111年他們都是一直下降提高啊那你都沒有控管好啊那你怎麼去定你的目標呢我們都思考過"},{"start":11546.374,"end":11558.626,"text":"目標是為了追求卓越我們不可能去定一個很消極的目標來讓國家追尋太過於樂觀嗎你這個都是以110年到113年的數據給你做看對不對在我們的經驗裡面其實我們這個東西就是要積極的努力去做了那找各種方法了"},{"start":11570.678,"end":11577.133,"text":"你的積極努力的話你有沒有想到說那整個消費市場管控上能不能達到你的目標你要怎麼做"},{"start":11578.505,"end":11599.346,"text":"這個就是我們其實我們現在定期都在看這裡面的數字的整合我們每個月都有做適度的調整那我們包括從物價的委員會裡面所以你要去因應啊物價一直飆漲你不能讓水一直漲啊我們有在因應喔所以現在的CPI不只核心喔CPI也降到了2以下了那核心CPI這一直在1.8以內"},{"start":11600.327,"end":11610.592,"text":"所以這都是主委這都給你參考的但是你要努力的去因應怎麼樣去做對不對不能隨意讓這物價一直飆你看物價一直飆這CPI物價一直飆你還是要控管住嘛那尤其是這個人均那個GDP這個部分的話你要達到4萬那到今年的話是3萬3美元那你說能夠超越日本跟韓國最好是以以色列來並駕齊驅那你的這個部分的話"},{"start":11629.761,"end":11646.765,"text":"那就要發展像賴總統講的就是半導體跟這個AI的產業因為這個是高薪的嘛你才有辦法把這個人均值提高起來那尤其是我們現在很多的製造業相關的產業他們就沒有辦法這麼高的薪水那你要怎麼去突破呢"},{"start":11648.181,"end":11656.449,"text":"我們現在的做法就是我們要盡量開創高薪的產業讓高薪的我知道我已經告訴你了對不對那從業製造業各方面的話那怎麼辦你不能全部依賴是這個半導體跟這個AI產業啊"},{"start":11665.643,"end":11683.916,"text":"經濟的成長他們是其他的像從業從事這個沒有相關的這半導體的產業的話他們是沒有辦法得到這經濟的紅利我們對於這個傳統產業我們希望他們轉型進入高質化的領域比如說像以螺絲扣件來講我們希望他進到了一定要轉型"},{"start":11685.998,"end":11688.959,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院總預算部分關於行政院總預算部分關於行政院總預算部分"},{"start":11709.588,"end":11710.669,"text":"分配不均勤來妥善處理"},{"start":11726.876,"end":11742.835,"text":"我們現在的做法是希望增加高薪就業機會之後會增加所得稅收然後我們透過這個所得稅收的增加去補助輔助的收入比較低的這個族群所以我們透過福利政策去彌補它"},{"start":11744.156,"end":11769.263,"text":"我們希望經濟成長的當下我們也不要讓這貧富差距越來越大我們一定要看看怎麼樣讓這個分配這個均不均勻的情形我們來做個應驗突破的方法好不好這要注意的那接下來本席要請教的就是因為有在提到地方的創生我們有一個戰略政策也有加速這個地方創生來的努力但是我們看到在我們地方來講134個鄉鎮"},{"start":11771.824,"end":11786.012,"text":"還有30個鄉鎮沒有提案在這提案當中我們看到就像我們趙薇所說的南部的也要加強像中部地區還有7個南部地區有19個東部有4個總共30個地區這鄉鎮還沒有提案的你們要想看看如何去輔導讓地方有特色有創造力的創生活的產業能夠去扶植他們尤其是要輔導跟協助"},{"start":11801.573,"end":11822.079,"text":"是的,我們現在會再強化這一塊我們在最新的計畫裡面就是會強化我們在福島的力量你有沒有了解他們為什麼沒有提案?提案上有什麼困難呢?你有去了解嗎?我們目前來講我們會進一步的去理解但是就我們之前的了解是"},{"start":11824.373,"end":11845.704,"text":"這個大家對於怎麼去提一個案子呢?我們後來經過輔導之後有改善那我們現在很多地方我們開始進入鄉公所、區公所的提案這很多方面有物價或者是房價、電價的問題這也是最核心的問題我們碰到一些單獨的企業就他的提案力道就會稍微弱一點所以我們現在很多地方是透過鄉鎮像獅子鄉等等這種鄉鎮來做帶動"},{"start":11848.726,"end":11875.989,"text":"那效果就有改善對,在這些有提案的在113年7月底有提案的有1192件但是有348件他們幾乎是都不提了也都測案了這個是什麼情況那個測案已經有提過測案348件佔了四分之一耶是我們有了解因為他是微型企業他原提以後在進行他的企業申請跟規劃的時候發現他的難度比較大之後他們進行測案"},{"start":11877.375,"end":11905.563,"text":"所以他整個計畫是不夠成熟自己就推薦了所以這個我們將來也會去所以你要輔導啊我們會試著去輔導改善你們會有補助、有協助他們的對不對對因為這個地方創生我們希望能夠永續傳承來發展那這樣子可以創造這個多元的經濟的模式好不好是的是的,謝謝委員主委這邊要努力一點是,是,謝謝委員謝謝李玉玲委員,謝謝好,主委請回座下一位請張嘉堅委員質詢"},{"start":11920.014,"end":11920.919,"text":"主席我想請這個主委"},{"start":11927.854,"end":11934.958,"text":"主委在我開始質詢之前我覺得真的今天應該要感謝趙偉你也要感謝趙偉因為呢真的國發會的這個管理上可能有一點點鬆散怎麼會該在這裡開會的人沒有在這裡這一點可能主委你要辛苦一點是的謝謝我們會檢討"},{"start":11951.528,"end":11966.435,"text":"主委上一週你到秘魯去參加APAC這個部長年會喔會後在記者會中喔你有講到說在與泰國、新加坡、菲律賓、日本等國家的部長交換意見還交換了這個WhatsApp的這個通訊軟體的聯絡資訊那本席當然是非常樂見說國發會與國際交流接軌不過除了這些之外主委有沒有什麼其他的收穫可以跟我們分享嗎"},{"start":11979.677,"end":12002.546,"text":"我們跟幾個國家有稍微談到就是未來的合作大概是什麼面向的合作呢?像有經濟方面的都幾乎都經濟方面的合作啦那包括一些科技上面的合作那你覺得這對台灣應該是會有大大的注意吧?會有的因為我們現在建立了更更容易接觸的管道"},{"start":12003.561,"end":12009.065,"text":"那在這一次APEC的這個閉門會議之中這個國際貨幣基金會的總裁在16號的時候他有警告說這個貿易保護主義正在削弱全球的經濟整合與貿易的成長動能"},{"start":12020.492,"end":12033.803,"text":"那大家都知道川普明年1月上臺對臺美貿易關係一定會產生影響那主委你認為整體而言川普上臺對臺灣到底是利多還是利空"},{"start":12035.638,"end":12056.047,"text":"其實我們認為利弊都存在但是以利多於弊利多於弊怎麼說呢?可以詳細的說明一下嗎?因為我們多數的產業目前是剛好跟對岸正式比較強烈的在碰撞跟競爭中因為對岸的稅按照川普的說法會苛徵60%的稅那會造成對岸的成本比較高"},{"start":12060.709,"end":12075.446,"text":"我認為是一個機會因為在上一波川普任內造成很多的企業因此離開中國到海外的發展那有一部分回到台灣回到台灣大概我們統計到到前一陣子是2.3兆所以多少是有很大的幫助的"},{"start":12075.987,"end":12089.051,"text":"那當然這個如果主委這樣說我們也是樂觀其成我們也希望臺灣的景氣可以在這個美洲貿易戰之間我們可以就是發展起來然後更加的茁壯看到您那邊也有湖北園區那這些園區我們也希望盡快能夠讓廠商進駐"},{"start":12093.613,"end":12116.708,"text":"是,就是說我們這個虎尾中科二期擴展希望主委可以大大的支持因為它目前已經完全停滯我覺得非常的可惜32.8公頃這個二期擴張完全停滯這對於整個臺灣的土地利用甚至我們產業的發展我覺得這是非常值得擔憂的所以請主委也關心好嗎好"},{"start":12118.269,"end":12143.767,"text":"對阿 因為我們也希望說不只是台積電甚至有很多想要在台灣投資的這些高科技產業就好像說他們要從中國移出的話可以考慮我們雲林中科二期阿這個包括說我們中科二期旁邊不只是那32.8公頃連結的單一地主台塘土地還有1600多公頃你要上下游整合整個產業都是非常有機會的"},{"start":12145.368,"end":12171.141,"text":"請主委特別拍時間來看吧前一陣子我有介紹我們也介紹了矽品、熱光的矽品到雲林發展是啊所以沒有它矽品已經要蓋好了它馬上要營運了它已經去了3年了它已經蓋好明年6月就要營運了它投資了1000億但這只是一個開始而已這只是一個開始希望主委可以繼續來關心我們地方那剛才有許多位委員講到中鋼"},{"start":12173.582,"end":12179.165,"text":"之前針對國發會扶植的綠能國家隊聯合再生公司結果成立之後弊案頻傳成立到目前為止虧損高達140多億國發基金投資聯合再生也準備認賠殺出聽說你們這就是填坑的基金預計聯合再生投資案國發基金大概還會再賠多少錢"},{"start":12199.654,"end":12214.884,"text":"他現在是這樣子我們當時投資的金額是價格是在13塊多目前在11塊多所以你們覺得大概還要再賠多少?如果我們能夠順利出去的話大概是賠10到20%之間那是多少錢?"},{"start":12216.121,"end":12221.103,"text":"大概是4億吧所以要再多賠44億喔?沒有沒有總共沒有沒有沒有沒有我們沒有投那麼多錢就是說這個44億4億4億聽起來像是一個冷冰冰的數字啊覺得說好像4億也沒有多少錢"},{"start":12234.308,"end":12248.366,"text":"4億很多錢好嗎那現在另外一個案子又來了國發會高副主委14號出席論壇的時候說這個國發基金準備投資一個飯工股的綠電平台想請問主委知道這個綠電平台嗎"},{"start":12250.469,"end":12265.88,"text":"這個綠電平台是這樣子我們請經濟部送行政院核定那核定之後我們就會依據國發基金的管理辦法依照行政院的核定那目前是規劃準備投資多少錢要等行政院核定"},{"start":12266.5,"end":12267.662,"text":"目前我們並沒有談到錢的部分"},{"start":12283.524,"end":12304.754,"text":"那他必須等行政院核定那據本席瞭解這計畫其實有一段時間了而且中鋼一開始是完全沒有意願一直到今年5月召開范宮古的售電公司這個研商的會議之後中鋼不斷地提出說不想參與這個售電平台的理由請問主委知道為什麼他不想參與嗎?"},{"start":12306.423,"end":12331.324,"text":"因為我們只針對這件事情開過一次會是經濟部來說明那我們請經濟部把這個案子送行所以為什麼他不願意參加呢我並不清楚他背後的原因我覺得主委應該要找出原因啊因為你不能夠國發基金然後跟經濟部逼著說大家都一定要參加呀所以現在被逼著要參加那國發基金呢你們是被逼著要投資嗎"},{"start":12332.245,"end":12358.446,"text":"它整個的目的主要是因為很多的中小型企業比較拿不到綠電它當時的就我他們的報告的內容是希望幫助中小企業能夠拿到綠電是我想你們當初成立聯合投資聯合再生也是利益良善啊但是我們現在最擔心的是綠電平台要求這國發基金國營事業都一起投資那國發基金要投資之前的審議機制是什麼"},{"start":12360.628,"end":12383.769,"text":"我們基本上是希望透過行政院的核定由行政院指定你不能什麼都推給行政院如果有審議機制那高副主委就不應該在審議之前對外說國發基金準備投資啊都還沒有審議怎麼知道就一定會過呢沒錯這個我有特別提醒他了有沒有搞錯啊你們都不用審議想投資就投資愛幹嘛幹嘛是怎麼樣"},{"start":12384.89,"end":12385.53,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":12406.36,"end":12422.214,"text":"您有重責大任您要為人民的荷包把關啦不要讓這個綠電平台變成第二個聯合戰聲第二個台顏綠能好嗎好的謝謝謝謝好謝謝張家俊委員下一位質詢請葉元志委"},{"start":12433.683,"end":12443.742,"text":"我們中午不休息,會延長到諮詢結束。您好,麻煩請國會主委,劉主委,謝謝。請國會劉主委。"},{"start":12452.317,"end":12464.643,"text":"主委好委員好我們古巴基金是台積電的大股東嘛現在是有16億.53的股票對不對是的16.53億股票今年的台積電總共貢獻多少股力啊"},{"start":12465.512,"end":12483.267,"text":"今年預計會超過一百億啊超過一百億有兩百多億嗎沒有沒有一百一百幾億兩百兩百齁大概兩百億左右兩百億左右是不是所以實際上台積電對國家基金貢獻很大對陳儒今天剛剛很多委員在問國家基金很多都虧錢啊"},{"start":12484.548,"end":12500.859,"text":"那因為台積電的關係讓古巴基金能夠有剩餘啦有很大的貢獻但是我們其他的投資還有將近100億的收入對啦但是台積電是應該是貢獻最大的啦所以我覺得這個主委應該要關心台積電的發展"},{"start":12502.04,"end":12522.756,"text":"那我昨天也跟經濟部長也詢問因為台積電他是有獲得美國的66億的補助嘛美元的補助可是有要求說A16的先進製程必須要移到美國去那經濟部所有的官員都樂觀其成啊說這樣很棒主委你身為台積電大股東你的看法如何"},{"start":12523.742,"end":12539.154,"text":"就我的了解,它現在是3奈米跟4奈米嗎?那2奈米就我的了解還不會過去,因為它必須要經過實驗成功那3奈米是在原計劃裡面就會過去"},{"start":12539.634,"end":12543.898,"text":"排積電有跟我解釋,那A16是產品的部分,那產品的部分其實要看,如果他A16一般來講進到3奈米是有可能過去的。有可能過去,那你也是樂觀其成嗎?"},{"start":12556.636,"end":12574.332,"text":"倒不是樂觀其成不樂觀其成這是一個政治因素那這個屬於在美國生產的很多美國客戶的訂單會進去這個是要看他的因為他成本比較高這個的確他美國的成本比較高那那個成本如果能夠被買方接受那買方下單台積電就會出貨"},{"start":12576.133,"end":12597.129,"text":"那只要是在3奈米或是在4奈米的台積電也會出貨,因為他可以製造,他不可能不接受所以我跟你請教一下,因為本來經濟部長是講說12月的時候,台積電在美國的廠開幕會有一個完工典禮那時候經濟部長是這樣子講的,可是後來隔不久張忠謀就說沒有人要完工典禮"},{"start":12598.331,"end":12613.372,"text":"那因為你是大股東嘛對你之前有受邀嗎沒有沒有完全都沒有受邀我們是只有2月份2月10號左右會在那邊開董事會董事會可是之前有傳出完工典禮的時候有沒有說先邀請你去後來又跟你說不辦"},{"start":12614.153,"end":12630.953,"text":"之前沒有如果有會邀請我像歐洲那次德國那次就有邀請就有邀請但這次沒有邀請這次應該還沒有辦可是我們就覺得很奇怪啊為什麼部長一開始說有後來張忠謀又說沒有其中的轉折是什麼應該以台積電的聲音為主吧對為什麼那部長為什麼會說有"},{"start":12632.781,"end":12659.868,"text":"所以你從頭到尾都沒有接到要完工典禮的消息就對了沒有那經濟部告訴我們講說其實不擔心台積電有一些製程會移到美國去他們的說法是說因為台積電未來每一年都會在台灣設廠嘛每一年都會設廠然後所以我們的製程是永遠會領先美國所以不用擔心嘛是這樣告訴我們目前是這樣台積電每一年都要設廠的話那目前最近三年的規劃是什麼"},{"start":12660.865,"end":12679.983,"text":"例如說今年、明年、後年要在哪個縣市?其實我知道在高雄跟台南高雄、台南然後再來因為每一年都要設廠接下來台中也會有台中也會有所以未來三年已經都規劃好了就這三個地方主委我現在就想要跟你請教一個問題因為"},{"start":12681.664,"end":12698.381,"text":"如果台積電要在每一年都要一個設廠的話那用電一定要確保嗎?因為它用電量很高用電用水我們都有都有已經保障了都有定期在溝通啊因為之前我看您在提到核電的時候啊你有講到就是說不反對核電但是後來你又改口了"},{"start":12698.541,"end":12702.725,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院基金、離島建設基金、花東地區永續發展"},{"start":12720.382,"end":12724.945,"text":"那再來是安全無虞嗎?我們現在就是要確保用電無虞啦因為我是看到你講說不一定要用核電因為產業在乎的是有沒有電而不是什麼電然後你也有提到"},{"start":12738.554,"end":12743.637,"text":"合電合安法必須實施嗎?合電合安法必須實施嗎?合電合安法必須實施嗎?合電合安法必須實施嗎?合電合安法必須實施嗎?"},{"start":12755.004,"end":12757.165,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分關於行政院地區永續發展"},{"start":12777.97,"end":12804.897,"text":"所以你能夠保證就是說不用核電的狀況下用電都沒問題這就你的了解這個部分我跟台電問過了但是台電的保證因為我沒辦法幫台電保證我只能轉達台電跟我的保證因為你是台積電大股東啦你也要站在台積電跟國家發展的角度用電的部分要說真話啦謝謝我今天對你特別好有比較好可能是昨天有覺得虧欠我我一點都不虧欠你我是等下一位委員"},{"start":12808.74,"end":12837.133,"text":"你要行個禮啊議員室慢走啊好 蔡育宇蔡育宇蔡育宇不在"},{"start":12838.288,"end":12859.553,"text":"侯孟楷侯孟楷侯孟楷不在麥玉珍麥玉珍麥玉珍不在蘇清玄蘇玉玄蘇清玄不在陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇陳"},{"start":12868.413,"end":12880.947,"text":"外、區、經營發言完畢。詢答結束。所提書面諮詢列入記錄刊登公報。書面諮詢及未及答覆部分請相當單位於週內以書面答覆並複製本會。"},{"start":12883.257,"end":12899.265,"text":"各位同仁,針對預算案如有修正動議或相關提案,注意,請於11月27日下午5點之前,送經濟委員會辦公室一例後續會診,預示不再收案。"},{"start":12907.918,"end":12923.614,"text":"如果以及會診之後請國會說相關的同仁能夠盡速去跟各位委員做一些的說明跟溝通本日討論事項所列的預算案詢答結束另外定期啊定期可能"},{"start":12925.126,"end":12939.858,"text":"應該是兩週之後兩週之後下次我當召委輪值召委的時候我會審查預算即時再請同仁務必要出席並定期繼續進行審查現在 三位"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}