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另外才要嘛有必要才要嘛那你知不知道去年最高法院在民事案件喔原則上因行延遲辯論啊 行了幾件延遲辯論來我直接秀給你看啊"},{"start":261.825,"end":286.887,"text":"離譜的不得了啊最高法院上訴第三審的案件2003年我國為了建立金字塔型的訴訟制度上訴最高法院的案件依照民事訴訟法474條的規定應行延遲辯論但不必要則不在此件結果展現出來的是什麼民事上訴的案件一般的案件行延遲辯論的五件五件"},{"start":288.311,"end":317.173,"text":"現在有個最基礎的問題來啦法官需不需要遵守法律 需要嗎當然還是法官可以置外於法律之外反正我是法官誰拿我有批條民事訴訟法474條明文規定第三審上訴因行言之辯論請我們的最高法院把我們的法律當空氣耶一年上訴最高法院的案件行言之辯論五件耶這在開什麼玩笑啊"},{"start":318.424,"end":339.827,"text":"告一個那麼大的最高法院那麼好的法庭還有直播的設備結果一年刑五件延遲辯論蔡備提名人你覺得需不需要痛加檢討這點我們會再來研究蔡備提名人你知道這件事情研究多久了吧你知不知道研究多久了"},{"start":340.725,"end":358.551,"text":"我第一次當立法委員的時候2016年下半年我第一次有機會最高法院的院長到立法院來備詢因為只有預算的時候他們要來嘛我提出了問題啊跟我說回去要檢討檢討了九年啊檢討了九年啊這就是檢討九年的結果啊"},{"start":363.045,"end":381.294,"text":"當法官認為我是最高法院的法官沒有人拿我有任何皮條的時候台灣是什麼法治國家人民要守法法官不要守法這樣對嗎蔡院長你上任司法院院長以後打算怎麼處理這件事"},{"start":383.26,"end":397.51,"text":"民事的部分我比較不熟悉你接下來要當司法院院長啊你不能夠說我只處理刑事的我民事的不管啊我沒有說我只處理刑事的你接下來打算要怎麼處理"},{"start":398.666,"end":425.967,"text":"民事的部分我想應該要先去深入了解這個原因到底為什麼深入了解很久了啦九年我們繼續往下看因為接下來要當憲法法庭的大法官特別要當司法院院長權力分立的原則人權的保障我國憲法的規定基本上就以這兩個為基石我們來看看您所謂的人權觀念跟權力分立啊您的認識啊是什麼"},{"start":429.38,"end":454.091,"text":"邱泰山你以前法務部的老長官嘛你當國兩司的時候就是他當部長把你拉進去的嘛2019年的時候離開法務部當國安諮詢委員可以把桃園地檢署的檢察長叫來叫他指示下面的檢察官要幫一個富商逃稅的案子做認罪協商可以做這種事嗎 來請教"},{"start":457.783,"end":472.406,"text":"這個事情我只從媒體的報導高檢署都有調查報告出來啦我現在只問你一般的抽象法律原則嘛為高權重當過法務部部長的人可以幹這件事嗎還是之前的老長官你不方便講做這種事情的人應不應該負法律責任來請教法律責任我不敢說就是要看實際的"},{"start":484.678,"end":506.825,"text":"實際的狀況就是他找彭坤彥來啊 關說司法啊叫他幫富商 辦認罪協商啊彭坤彥回去就下條子給承辦檢察官 這都是客觀事實啊如果您不了解的話 高檢署的調查報告都出來了啊而且 那個時候立法院在追這件事情的時候 我第一任當立委你那時候也在法務部任職啊"},{"start":508.257,"end":534.226,"text":"但是我沒有看過這份報告我大概了解跟是從你連這件事情表示立場的勇氣都沒有連這個表示立場的勇氣都沒有這樣人民要如何期待你抗拒政治的壓力做好司法獨立審判我想要表示一個立場要先對事實有一定的了解那我接下來問你一定很清楚的謝謝"},{"start":535.61,"end":545.702,"text":"2019年2月香港政府宣布要提出逃犯條例的修法你還記不記得你那時候的回應是什麼"},{"start":547.96,"end":575.64,"text":"好像我曾經講過樂見其成樂見其成嘛你今天還覺得樂見其成嗎今天我覺得這個情勢的結果是當初所沒有預料到的2019年2月你說你沒有預料到來我們來看一看你的態度是怎麼轉變的香港提逃犯條例的修法你當初說樂見其成結果香港民運的領袖黃之鋒說什麼痛批你啊"},{"start":576.744,"end":583.942,"text":"對你的說法百思不得其解啊為什麼會樂見其成你知不知道你的態度什麼時候轉變的你還記得嗎"},{"start":587.067,"end":611.465,"text":"是後來發現 就是因為對香港的政治情勢其實我們當時不是太了解政治的情勢很奇怪耶當初二月的時候 三月的時候整個香港民運人士都起來抗議了啊逃犯條例的法條也公佈了啊你作為我國國兩司的司長對於他們要搞的逃犯條例你樂見其成被黃之鋒出來痛批"},{"start":612.861,"end":634.811,"text":"你回去有反省嗎我們確實不了解香港的政治體制三月他不就公布了嗎是公布是公布那因為我們之前跟香港一直沒有進行司法互助的經驗那我們來我告訴你啦有沒有經驗喔根本不是重點為什麼不是重點我告訴你你什麼時候態度轉變的"},{"start":636.391,"end":660.437,"text":"你態度轉變啊一直到五月還在發新聞稿說樂建跟香港合作什麼時候轉變的來我給你看六月的時候蔡英文發文譴責賴清德痛批結果民進黨兩個位高權重的人出來痛批了以後馬上轉向國兩司六月十四號發聲明譴責大轉彎"},{"start":666.564,"end":683.537,"text":"在這個整個歷程看下來我基本上覺得您對於這件事情沒有中心的理念完全沒有中心的理念就是看上億辦事啊等到上面的人講話了才趕快迎合上億發聲明稿 是不是這樣"},{"start":687.461,"end":714.447,"text":"這個聲明稿我怎麼發的 我現在記不太清楚你也不記得啦 沒關係啦 你回去好好看看啦我說話我一定負責啊整個歷程我整理得非常的清楚啊社會大眾也可以檢驗看我今天站在這邊啊 所提出來的批判到底合理還是不合理啊來 下一個問題我們跟多少國家簽引渡條約你國兩司司長應該很清楚嘛引渡條約很少很少是幾個"},{"start":716.258,"end":742.27,"text":"應該是個位數啦我現在沒有具體的數十一個國家啦十一個國家奇怪法務部的官這麼好當喔這麼基本的事實問題過去這十年沒有增加任何新的國家過去這十年沒有增加任何新的國家這不是你主管的法律嗎再往下看立法委員修法提高老農津貼有沒有文獻"},{"start":747.96,"end":773.229,"text":"過去老農沒有津貼嘛我四千塊給他提升到六千元嘛照顧我們辛苦的農民嘛立法委員提案修法增加老農津貼有沒有違憲基本我認為是沒有違憲基本上認為沒有違憲那就很奇怪啦為什麼說很奇怪我問卷發給你啊結果你附和九龍派的說法說法律案增加政府支出違憲"},{"start":775.418,"end":786.773,"text":"你還記得你寫的答案嗎我看了你寫的答案我非常驚訝我驚訝到說你的答案怎麼跟卓榮泰的聲明長的87%像"},{"start":789.855,"end":805.981,"text":"你基本上就符合卓榮泰的說法啊你今天又在這邊跟我講立法委員修法增加老農今天沒有違憲那我再請教你立法委員修法增加對於原住民的進法補償金額從每公頃三萬元提高到五萬元有沒有違憲"},{"start":809.249,"end":831.74,"text":"基本上我認為沒有違憲基本上你認為沒有違憲 非常好 記得你今天的答案回去啊 再好好看看你給我們黨團的回覆怎麼會跟你今天在這邊的答覆啊 差這麼多時間的關係我要一直往下走啊只有20分鐘 問題非常的多啊再來 賴清德在所謂的團結實講中 他說"},{"start":834.551,"end":863.261,"text":"他自己當立法委員12年沒有看過立法院通過一個法律被判決違憲痛批啊這個是在台灣史無前例啊贊不贊成賴清德這樣的說法我不是聽得很清楚就是之前的沒有被宣告違憲還是現在不是啊我問你啊提名你的應該是賴清德總統啊你有跟他見過面嗎見過一次面對啊他講的這個話很重欸"},{"start":865.175,"end":883.315,"text":"總統指責我們立法院欸所以他自己當立法委員12年沒有看過這麼離譜的立法院通過法律被宣告違憲所以我才請教你 贊不贊成賴清德這樣的說法嗎還是你已經過著隱世獨居的生活外面社會發生什麼事情你都不知道"},{"start":884.617,"end":911.922,"text":"是有點這樣子是這樣很危險耶這是賴總統自己的觀察我想是他你這樣不贊成我沒有辦法表示贊成沒關係啊但是你接下來就要表示意見來看一下立法院職權刑事法15條之二我沒有要你背啦我不會像考小學生一樣考你這樣對你不尊敬我把法條都列出來了這個條文有沒有違憲"},{"start":917.895,"end":927.765,"text":"立法院得經全體立法委員四分之一提議院會決議由程序委員會排定議程就國家安全大政方針聽取總統國情報告來請問15條之二這個條文有沒有違憲這個條文的比較文字比較微妙因為跟憲法的規定有一點點"},{"start":940.141,"end":952.47,"text":"沒有關係啦 因為你接下來要當憲法法庭的法官嘛這個不是Pending當中的案件Pending當中的案件我問你 也不適當嘛這個是終結的案件嘛所以我問你這個條文有沒有違憲那個主席的時間可不可以停下來因為我每次問他就禁止停格然後時間都跑我的 這樣不好吧"},{"start":967.928,"end":972.591,"text":"時間暫停一下跟委員報告一下目前為止節奏還算順暢好不好OK好來請"},{"start":977.864,"end":1007.359,"text":"我想這個是在文字上有解讀的問題因為從憲法的角度來看他是第二方面得聽取總統的國情報告所以有沒有違憲表面上看起來是沒有違憲表面上看起來沒違憲了你知不知道這個條文被我們憲法法庭宣告違憲了你知道嗎是的我了解你認為沒有違憲我們憲法法庭宣告違憲了我說表面上字面上看起來是嗎你知不知道這個條文什麼時候修的"},{"start":1009.904,"end":1026.209,"text":"修的時間我跟你講啊2008年賴清德當立委的時候修的啊2008年賴清德當立委的時候修的啊我就覺得很奇怪了一個總統忘了自己當立委修過什麼法"},{"start":1027.305,"end":1052.029,"text":"結果自己修的法被立法院被憲法法庭宣告違憲臉皮很厚欸指責現在全體國會議員欸沒有看過你們這麼糟糕的立法委員啊修一個法律被宣告違憲總統這樣子的發言有國家元首的高度嗎還是總統希望挖一個坑給他自己跳下去看我們一般台灣的公民有沒有發現總統這樣的發言有總統的高度嗎"},{"start":1057.705,"end":1080.087,"text":"怎麼會自己修過法律自己都忘了欸高度的問題我不方便評論好來我們再往下看通訊監察法的規定來一樣我給你時間看通訊監察法規定通訊監察書偵查中有檢察官依照司法警察機關申請或依職權核發審判中有法官依職權核發這個條文有沒有違憲"},{"start":1084.771,"end":1112.508,"text":"早期確實是有檢察官可以來就是來申請或者是監聽票啦檢察官發有沒有違憲有還是沒有現在被認為違憲我想這個有現在被認為違憲什麼時候被認為違憲的實際的時間實際的日期我沒有印象很早以前啦十幾年前了2007年快20年了"},{"start":1114.685,"end":1137.098,"text":"當初立這個法的,您知道是誰嗎?我不知道又是賴清德賴清德在當立委的時候說檢察官可以發監聽票後來什麼?4至631號2007年的大法官宣告違憲現在賴清德是在打臉誰?在打臉他自己嗎?在打臉他自己嗎?"},{"start":1138.359,"end":1165.79,"text":"重點是什麼 我們再往下看這都是人權保障非常重要的條款啊國家機器什麼時候可以去監聽法官保留還是檢察官保留這些事情都很重要嘛 對不對來 我們來看一下通保法相關的規定通訊檢查要不要法官保留要法官保留通訊使用者資料調取要不要法官保留要法官保留"},{"start":1166.738,"end":1195.644,"text":"通訊紀錄調取要不要法官保留?這個都是檢察官要很熟的事情啊也要法官保留網路流量紀錄要不要法官保留?這個我不確定好沒關係啊網路流量紀錄啊是我們去年修法可能對你來講這是新的法但是你剛剛的答案啊事實上是錯的為什麼?通訊使用者資料調取不用法官保留法務部向來的立場都是這個樣子啊"},{"start":1196.817,"end":1226.423,"text":"你忘了嗎這很基本耶這非常基本耶好來 再來檢察官傳喚證人作證可以當場要求證人交出手機要求查看手機內的通訊內容嗎可不可以我想這個這個是刑事基本人權啦檢察官可以做這個 是嗎證人的話就比較不適宜就比較不適合 不要講不適合啦"},{"start":1227.774,"end":1237.597,"text":"對平民人,我們都是法律人,不是素人素人才會用形容詞在形容法律人就很清楚,可以這樣做嗎?這樣做嘛,本質上就是搜索嘛人民為什麼對司法還信任?現在的檢察官辦案,有告訴證人你有權拒絕嗎?有嗎?"},{"start":1267.586,"end":1271.75,"text":"好 謝謝黃國昌委員的詢問謝謝蔡備提名人的回答 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":62,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（9時12分）謝謝院長。麻煩有請蔡被提名人。"],["主席：麻煩蔡被提名人。"],["蔡秋明被提名人：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：被提名人您好。台灣民眾黨黨團在審查司法院院長及大法官的標準，在上一次大法官同意權行使的過程當中，我們已經表明的非常的清楚。有沒有勇氣對抗當權者？扮演憲法守護者的角色、去維護我國的民主憲政、去貫徹我國的人權保障，我相信這是最基本的要求。不過很遺憾，在您回復給本黨團的問卷內容，我想先請問一下被提名人，那都是你自己寫的嗎？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：也有跟朋友請教的。"],["黃委員國昌：你請教哪些朋友？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：大概都是我的同事。"],["黃委員國昌：我覺得非常詫異！被提名人，你可以回去比對一下，我發現你對很多問題的回答，基本上跟目前當權的民進黨政府所發出來的官方聲明大同小異。我只有20分鐘的時間，如果被提名人有興趣的話，會後我可以一題一題跟你講，為什麼我說你所提供的答案跟民進黨政府所發的官方聲明大同小異。我先針對具體的問題進行詢問，你知道在賴清德上任一年以後，全國人民最不滿意他施政表現的是哪一項？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：據我所知是司法。"],["黃委員國昌：是司法改革嘛！在2017年司法國是會議以後，改了八年，人民最不滿意是司法改革，你覺得政府有沒有必要痛加檢討？有沒有必要？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我覺得有必要檢討。"],["黃委員國昌：有必要檢討。你知不知道納稅人一年給司法院的預算是多少錢？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：大概是1%。"],["黃委員國昌：多少錢？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：錢的總數，我沒有……"],["黃委員國昌：你要接任司法院院長欸，現在司法院一年預算要多少錢你不知道？這會不會太離譜啊！這很基本的欸！你要增加司法預算，最起碼要知道現在預算要多少錢、未來還要爭取多少錢，這個不是最基本的嗎？結果你現在連一年預算要多少錢也不知道？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我沒有記總數，但是我知道大概是……"],["黃委員國昌：從2016年、2017年到2025年，我們的司法預算是不是節節上升？是不是？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：是的。"],["黃委員國昌：我直接跟你講，這很基本的啊！從2017年納稅人給了216億，到今年已經288億了，不斷的在上升，納稅人給司法這樣的支持，但我們的司法滿意度是持續探底，成為賴清德執政人民最不滿意的事項，但你剛剛回答一個問題，最起碼我肯定，需要痛加檢討，但我們看不到政府有任何痛加檢討的決心。我舉一個最簡單的例子，目前最高法院上訴第三審的案件，民事案件要不要行言詞辯論？依法該不該行言詞辯論？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：應該行言詞辯論。"],["黃委員國昌：依法應該要言詞辯論，但現實上有言詞辯論嗎？有嗎？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：民事的部分我比較不了解。"],["黃委員國昌：那刑事的部分你了解嗎？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：刑事的部分……"],["黃委員國昌：原則上不用行言詞辯論，例外才要，有必要才要嘛！那你知不知道去年最高法院在民事案件原則上應行言詞辯論行了幾件言詞辯論？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：對不起，我沒有這個資料。"],["黃委員國昌：來，我直接秀給你看啊！離譜得不得了啊！最高法院上訴第三審的案件，2003年我國為了建立金字塔型的訴訟制度，上訴最高法院的案件依照民事訴訟法第四百七十四條的規定，應行言詞辯論，但不必要者不在此限，結果展現出來的是什麼？民事上訴的案件，一般的案件行言詞辯論的5件！現在有個最基礎的問題來了，法官需不需要遵守法律？需要嗎？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：當然。"],["黃委員國昌：還是法官可以自外於法律之外，反正我是法官，誰拿我有皮條？民事訴訟法第四百七十四條明文規定，第三審上訴應行言詞辯論，結果我們的最高法院把我們的法律當空氣耶！一年上訴最高法院的案件行言詞辯論的5件耶！這在開什麼玩笑啊！蓋一個那麼大的最高法院、那麼好的法庭，還有直播的設備，結果一年行5件言詞辯論。蔡被提名人，你覺得需不需要痛加檢討？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：這一點我們會再來研究，看能不能……"],["黃委員國昌：蔡被提名人，你知道這件事情研究多久了嗎？你知不知道研究多久了？我第一次當立法委員的時候，2016年下半年，最高法院院長到立法院來備詢，因為只有預算的時候他們要來，我第一次有機會質詢，我提出了問題，他跟我說回去要檢討，檢討了9年，這就是檢討9年的結果，當法官認為我是最高法院的法官，沒有人有拿我有任何皮條的時候，臺灣是什麼法治國家？人民要守法，法官不要守法，這樣對嗎？蔡院長，你上任司法院院長以後要怎麼處理這件事？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：民事的部分，我比較不熟悉，那我會……"],["黃委員國昌：不是啦，你接下來要當司法院院長啊！你不能夠說只處理刑事的，民事的不管啊！"],["蔡秋明被提名人：當然，我沒有說我只處理……"],["黃委員國昌：對啊，你接下來打算要怎麼處理？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：民事的部分我想應該要先去深入了解原因到底為什麼。"],["黃委員國昌：深入了解很久了啦！9年。我們繼續往下看，因為接下來要當憲法法庭的大法官，特別要當司法院院長，我國憲法的規定基本上就以權力分立的原則、人權的保障為基石，我們來看看您對所謂的人權觀念跟權力分立的認識是什麼。邱太三，你以前法務部的老長官，你當國兩司司長的時候，就是他當部長把你拉進去的，2019年的時候，離開法務部當國安諮詢委員，可以把桃園地檢署的檢察長叫來，叫他指示下面的檢察官幫一個富商逃稅的案子做認罪協商，可以做這種事嗎？請教！"],["蔡秋明被提名人：這個事情我只從媒體……"],["黃委員國昌：高檢署都有調查報告出來啦！我現在只問你一般的抽象法律原則，位高權重、當過法務部部長的人可以幹這件事嗎？還是因為是之前的老長官，你不方便講？做這種事情的人應不應該負法律責任？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：法律責任我不敢說，就是要看實際的……"],["黃委員國昌：實際的狀況就是他找彭坤業來啊！關說司法啊！叫他幫富商辦認罪協商，彭坤業回去就下條子給承辦檢察官，這都是客觀事實，如果您不了解的話，高檢署的調查報告都出來了，而且立法院在追這件事情的時候，我是第一任當立委，你那時候也在法務部任職啊！"],["蔡秋明被提名人：是，但是我沒有看過這份報告，我大概了解跟……是從報導……"],["黃委員國昌：這件事情你連表示立場的勇氣都沒有，連表示立場的勇氣都沒有，叫人民要如何期待你抗拒政治的壓力，做好司法獨立審判？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我想要表示一個立場，要先對事實有一定的了解。"],["黃委員國昌：好，沒關係，我接下來問你一定很清楚的。"],["蔡秋明被提名人：謝謝。"],["黃委員國昌：2019年2月香港政府宣布要提出逃犯條例的修法，還記不記得你那時候的回應是什麼？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：好像我曾經講過樂見其成。"],["黃委員國昌：樂見其成嘛！"],["蔡秋明被提名人：是。"],["黃委員國昌：你今天還覺得樂見其成嗎？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：今天我覺得這個情勢的結果是當初所沒有預料到的。"],["黃委員國昌：你說你沒有預料到，我們來看一看你的態度是怎麼轉變的。2019年2月香港提逃犯條例的修法，你當初說樂見其成，結果香港民運的領袖黃之鋒痛批你，對你的說法百思不得其解。為什麼會樂見其成？你知不知道你的態度什麼時候轉變的，你還記得嗎？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：是後來發現，就是因為對香港的政治情勢，其實我們當時不是太了解。"],["黃委員國昌：政治的情勢？很奇怪欸，當初2月的時候、3月的時候，整個香港民運人士都起來抗議了，逃犯條例的法條也公布了，你作為我國國際及兩岸法律司的司長，對於他們要搞的逃犯條例你樂見其成，被黃之鋒出來痛批，你回去有反省嗎？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我們確實不了解香港的政治情勢。"],["黃委員國昌：3月不就公布了嗎？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：公布是公布，因為我們之前跟香港一直沒有進行司法互助的經驗，我們……"],["黃委員國昌：有沒有經驗根本不是重點，為什麼不是重點？我告訴你，你什麼時候態度轉變的。你一直到5月還在發新聞稿說樂見跟香港合作，我給你看是什麼時候轉變的，6月的時候，蔡英文發文譴責、賴清德痛批，結果民進黨兩個位高權重的人出來痛批了以後，馬上轉向，國兩司6月14日發聲明譴責，大轉彎哪！整個歷程看下來，我基本上覺得您對於這件事情沒有中心的理念，完全沒有中心的理念，就是看上意辦事，等到上面的人講話了，才趕快迎合上意發聲明稿，是不是這樣？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：這個聲明稿怎麼發的，我現在也記不太清楚。"],["黃委員國昌：你也不記得，沒關係，你回去好好看，我說話一定負責，整個歷程我整理得非常清楚，社會大眾也可以檢驗我今天站在這邊所提出來的批判，到底合理還是不合理。","下一個問題，我們跟多少國家簽引渡條約？你是國兩司司長應該很清楚。"],["蔡秋明被提名人：引渡條約很少。"],["黃委員國昌：很少是幾個？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：應該是個位數，我現在沒有具體的……"],["黃委員國昌：11個國家。奇怪，法務部的官這麼好當喔？","這麼基本的事實問題，過去這10年沒有增加任何新的國家，這不是你主管的法律嗎？再往下看。"],["蔡秋明被提名人：是的。"],["黃委員國昌：立法委員修法提高老農津貼有沒有違憲？過去老農沒有津貼，我從4,000塊給他提升到6,000元，照顧我們辛苦的農民嘛！立法委員提案修法增加老農津貼，有沒有違憲？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：基本我認為是沒有違憲。"],["黃委員國昌：基本上認為沒有違憲。那就很奇怪了，我為什麼說很奇怪？我問卷發給你啊！結果你附和卓榮泰的說法，說法律案增加政府支出違憲耶！你還記得你寫的答案嗎？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：對於特別預算這個……"],["黃委員國昌：我看了你寫的答案，我非常驚訝，我驚訝到說你的答案怎麼跟卓榮泰的聲明長得87%像？你基本上就附合卓榮泰的說法，而你今天又在這邊跟我講，立法委員修法增加老農津貼沒有違憲！那我再請教你，立法委員修法增加對原住民的禁伐補償金額，從每公頃3萬元提高到5萬元，有沒有違憲？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：基本上我認為沒有違憲。"],["黃委員國昌：基本上你認為沒有違憲，非常好！記得你今天的答案，回去再好好看看你給我們黨團的回復，怎麼會跟你今天在這邊的答復差這麼多？時間的關係，我要一直往下走，只有20分鐘，問題非常多。","再來，賴清德在所謂的團結十講中，他說他自己當立法委員12年，沒有看過立法院通過一個法律被判決違憲，痛批這個在臺灣是史無前例。你贊不贊成賴清德這樣的說法？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我不是聽得很清楚，就是之前的沒有被宣告違憲，還是現在的……"],["黃委員國昌：不是，我問你，提名你的應該是賴清德總統嘛？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：是。"],["黃委員國昌：你有跟他見過面嗎？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：見過一次面。"],["黃委員國昌：對啊！他講了這個話很重耶！總統指著我們立法院耶！說他自己當立法委員12年，沒有看過這麼離譜的立法院，通過法律被宣告違憲。所以我才請教你，贊不贊成賴清德這樣的說法？還是你已經過著隱士獨居的生活，外面社會發生什麼事情你都不知道？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：是有點這樣子，這個……"],["黃委員國昌：是有一點這樣？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：這個是……"],["黃委員國昌：哇！天哪！這樣很危險。"],["蔡秋明被提名人：這是賴總統自己的觀察，我想是他……"],["黃委員國昌：你贊不贊成？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我沒有辦法表示贊成或不贊成……"],["黃委員國昌：沒關係，但是你接下來就要表示意見，看一下立法院職權行使法第十五條之二，我沒有要你背，我不會像考小學生一樣考你，這樣對你不尊敬，我把法條都列出來了。"],["蔡秋明被提名人：謝謝。"],["黃委員國昌：這個條文有沒有違憲？「立法院得經全體立法委員四分之一以上提議，院會決議後，由程序委員會排定議程，就國家安全大政方針，聽取總統國情報告。」請問第十五條之二這個條文有沒有違憲？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：這個條文的文字比較微妙，因為跟憲法的規定有一點點解讀上的……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有關係，因為你接下來要當憲法法庭的法官嘛！這個不是pending當中的案件，pending當中的案件我問你也不適當，這個已經是終結的案件嘛！"],["蔡秋明被提名人：是。"],["黃委員國昌：所以我問你，這個條文有沒有違憲？","主席……"],["蔡秋明被提名人：這個條文的……"],["黃委員國昌：時間可不可以停下來？因為我每次問，他就靜止停格，然後時間都跑我的，這樣不好吧？"],["主席：時間暫停一下。跟委員報告一下，目前為止節奏還算順暢，好不好？"],["黃委員國昌：OK，好。"],["主席：我們繼續，好。"],["黃委員國昌：好，請。"],["主席：好，請。謝謝。"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我想這個在文字上有解讀的問題，因為從憲法的角度來看，它是立法院「得」聽取總統的國情報告，那……"],["黃委員國昌：是，那有沒有違憲？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：表面上看起來是沒有違憲。"],["黃委員國昌：表面上看起來沒違憲？那你知不知道這個條文被我們憲法法庭宣告違憲，你知道嗎？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：是的，我了解。"],["黃委員國昌：你認為沒有違憲，我們憲法法庭宣告違憲啊！"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我說表面上、字面上看起來……"],["黃委員國昌：是嘛！你知不知道這個條文什麼時候修的？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：修的時間……"],["黃委員國昌：我跟你講，2008年賴清德當立委的時候修的！2008年賴清德當立委的時候修的，我就覺得很奇怪了，一個總統忘了自己當立委修過什麼法，結果自己修的法被憲法法庭宣告違憲，臉皮很厚！指著現在全體國會議員耶！沒有看過你們這麼糟糕的立法委員，修一個法律被宣告違憲。總統這樣子的發言有國家元首的高度嗎？還是總統希望挖一個坑給自己跳下去，看我們一般的臺灣公民有沒有發現？總統這樣子的發言有總統的高度嗎？怎麼會自己修過的法律自己都忘了！"],["蔡秋明被提名人：高度的問題我不方便評論。"],["黃委員國昌：我們再往下看通訊監察法的規定：「通訊監察書，偵查中由檢察官依司法警察機關聲請或依職權核發，審判中由法官依職權核發。」這個條文有沒有違憲？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：早期確實是由檢察官……可以來聲請，或者是……"],["黃委員國昌：監聽票啦！檢察官發，有沒有違憲？有還是沒有？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：現在被認為違憲，我想這個有時代的……"],["黃委員國昌：現在被認為違憲。什麼時候被認為違憲的？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：實際的日期我沒有印象。"],["黃委員國昌：很早以前啦！十幾年前了！2007年！快20年了耶！當初立這個法的，您知道是誰嗎？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我不知道。"],["黃委員國昌：又是賴清德！賴清德在當立委的時候，說檢察官可以發監聽票，後來在2007年被大法官以釋字第631號解釋宣告違憲了，現在賴清德是在打臉誰？在打臉他自己嗎？在打臉他自己嗎？重點是什麼？我們再往下看，這都是人權保障非常重要的條款啊！"],["蔡秋明被提名人：是。"],["黃委員國昌：國家機器什麼時候可以去監聽？法官保留還是檢察官保留？這些事情都很重要嘛！對不對？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：對。"],["黃委員國昌：好，我們來看一下通保法的相關規定，通訊監察要不要法官保留？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：要法官保留。"],["黃委員國昌：通訊使用者資料調取要不要法官保留？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：也要法官保留。"],["黃委員國昌：通信紀錄調取要不要法官保留？","這個都是檢察官要很熟的事情啊！"],["蔡秋明被提名人：也要法官保留。"],["黃委員國昌：網路流量紀錄要不要法官保留？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：這個我不確定。"],["黃委員國昌：好，沒關係啦！網路流量紀錄是我們去年修法的，可能對你來講這是新的法。但是你剛剛的答案事實上是錯的。為什麼？通訊使用者資料調取不用法官保留。法務部向來的立場都是這個樣子啦！你忘了嗎？這很基本耶！這非常基本耶！","好，再來，檢察官傳喚證人做證，可以當場要求證人交出手機、要求查看手機內的通訊內容嗎？可不可以？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：我想這個……"],["黃委員國昌：這個是刑事基本人權啊！檢察官可以做這個事嗎？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：證人的話就比較不適合。"],["黃委員國昌：就比較不適合？不要講「不適合」啦！被提名人，我們都是法律人，不是素人，素人才會用形容詞在形容，法律人就很清楚，可以這樣做嗎？"],["蔡秋明被提名人：對證人而言比較不適合。"],["黃委員國昌：根本不能這樣做嘛！本質上就是搜索嘛！人民為什麼對司法沒信任？現在的檢察官辦案，有告訴證人你有權拒絕嗎？有嗎？"],["主席：好。"],["黃委員國昌：我不知道你會不會通過，如果通過，回去瞭解一下，這是刑事基本人權耶！不要像你今天回答那麼多問題的答案一樣，讓人家感覺還搞不清楚狀況。"],["主席：好，謝謝黃國昌委員的詢問，也謝謝蔡被提名人的回答，謝謝。","接下來請本院第2位詢問的委員王義川委員，請詢問。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":364,"meet_id":"全院委員會-11-3-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","黃國昌","王義川","許宇甄","林岱樺","王育敏","林淑芬","賴士葆","陳亭妃","王鴻薇","張啓楷","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","林月琴","吳宗憲"],"page_start":291,"meetingDate":["2025-07-09"],"gazette_id":"1146501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146501_00004","1146501_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議紀錄","content":"總統咨，為司法院大法官含院長、副院長，現有缺額7名，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規\n定，提名蔡秋明、蘇素娥、蕭文生、鄭純惠、林麗瑩、陳慈陽、詹鎮榮7位為司法院大法官，並\n以蔡秋明為院長、蘇素娥為副院長，咨請同意案","agenda_id":"1146501_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}