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二審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於行政院主管、行政院國家發展基金、離島建設基金、花農地區永續發展基金及促進轉型正義基金。"},{"start":1867.246,"end":1893.342,"text":"討論事項和並詢答,國發會主委劉靜清報告後委員林黛樺等14人提出質詢,均由國發會劉主委及相關人員即席答覆。登記發言文處不在場者外其餘均與發言完畢,詢答結束。委員蔡易瑜所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報。書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位於一周內與書面答覆,並赴資本會。決議詢答結束令定期繼續審查。散會宣讀完畢。"},{"start":1900.54,"end":1903.744,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於經濟部及所屬單位預算部分。 今日詢答宣讀完畢"},{"start":1920.558,"end":1947.667,"text":"本日議程為詢答114年度的中央政府總預算案關於經濟部及所屬單位的預算我們現在先介紹在場的委員及各機關首長蔡易宇委員經濟部的郭智輝部長商業發展署的蘇文林署長"},{"start":1950.27,"end":1973.478,"text":"產業發展署的陳佩麗副署長國際貿易署的江文若署長能源署的游政偉署長中小及新創企業署李冠志署長水利署賴建信署長"},{"start":1976.98,"end":2006.283,"text":"智慧財產局廖承威局長產業園區管理局楊伯根局長標準檢驗局陳怡林局長地質調查及礦業管理中心徐明洪主任經貿人員培訓所李浩喜所長"},{"start":2009.534,"end":2032.802,"text":"台塘公司陳立仁總經理中游公司張明總經理台電公司王耀廷總經理台水公司李丁來總經理工商輔導中心雲瑞龍主任"},{"start":2034.582,"end":2035.222,"text":"現在我們就請經濟部長報告"},{"start":2072.352,"end":2098.255,"text":"主席、各位委員、大家早今天貴委員會審查本部主管114年度預算案本部曾邀列席報告深感榮幸並感謝各位委員對本部各項業務的協助與指教請將本部主管114年度預算案編列情形及113年度已過期預算執行情形檢要報告如下"},{"start":2100.033,"end":2116.127,"text":"稅務的部分本部所屬114年度預算案稅務編列167.86億主要項目包括台塘、中鋼、台煙、漢翔等公司股息紅利腳庫76.8億與智慧財產局標準檢驗局規費收入53.62億元及國際貿易署財產收入16.36億元等"},{"start":2125.885,"end":2144.895,"text":"較113年度預算數增列6.98億元,主要為中鋼、台岩、漢翔等公司股息紅利腳庫4.44億元及智慧財產局規費收入1.85億元所致。稅出部分本部所屬114年度預算案稅出編列"},{"start":2148.427,"end":2152.99,"text":"2134.11億元較113年度預算數1818.93億元增列315.18億元相關編列內容摘要如下一般支出編列1343.94億元較113年度預算數1268.32億元增加了75.62億元主要編列項目為"},{"start":2175.603,"end":2180.439,"text":"撥補台電公司經費一千億元及撥補石油基金辦理住宅"},{"start":2181.823,"end":2207.943,"text":"能效提升計劃注載家電效率升級計劃家戶屋頂設置太陽光電加速計劃商業服務業節能設備補助計劃及電動機車產業環境加值補助計劃等經費122.98億元其他如人事費撥補中小企業發展基金捐助財產法人中小企業信用保證基金"},{"start":2209.217,"end":2218.384,"text":"撥補水資源作業基金中小企業融資輔導方案離島地區用水差價補貼及其他有關經濟發展業務經費等公共建設計畫編列383.10億元較113年度預算數179.93億元增加203.17億元編列項目為以環境資源類"},{"start":2235.251,"end":2250.429,"text":"編列370.29議員辦理如中央管流域整體改善與調適計畫備援調度幹管工程計畫以及無致海水地區供水改善計畫第5期等計畫而經濟建設列"},{"start":2254.535,"end":2272.408,"text":"編列11.29億元辦理先進半導體研發基地建置計畫等計畫其他有關都市及區域發展數位基礎建設類別編列1.52億元辦理打造永續共好地方創生計畫等計畫科技發展計畫編列407.07億元"},{"start":2279.193,"end":2293.163,"text":"較113年度預算數370.68億元增加了36.39億元編列項目包括依科技專案234.79億元依產業技術發展需要投入前章科技應用及技術研發"},{"start":2294.392,"end":2298.278,"text":"推動產業低碳化、智慧化、高質化及發展半導體、AI軍工產業等引領產業邁向淨零與數位雙手轉型"},{"start":2310.655,"end":2336.44,"text":"中小及新創企業科技應用18.01億元鼓勵中小企業積極投入創新技術及服務研發活動創造優質中小企業發展環境。是,促進商業科技發展11.01億元協助商業服務業應用AI等智慧科技及輔導商業服務業推動低碳轉型。五,建立度量衡及標準檢測驗證6.74億元"},{"start":2339.059,"end":2366.962,"text":"以建置新興科技與精靈領域檢測、驗證能量並建構國際等計量基盤與標準體系。其他辦理有關地質及礦業科技發展、智慧財產權科技發展、園區產業升級及數位貿易等。第二項,113年度已過期的預算執行情形依稅務部分"},{"start":2367.557,"end":2378.024,"text":"本部及所屬113年度稅數預算數160.88億元截至113年10月底子累計執行達99.79%二稅數的部分本部及所屬113年度稅數預算數1829.49億元截至113年10月底子累計達成96.6%以上本部主管114年度預算稅數案之編列"},{"start":2397.342,"end":2420.089,"text":"軍系配合行政院整體施政將有限資源做最有效的配置與應用並致力活絡五大信賴產業發展投資臺灣布局全球推動中小微企業多元振興發展確保供電穩定及打造穩定供水環境之目標敬請各位委員支持與指教謝謝"},{"start":2427.145,"end":2454.145,"text":"補充介紹賴瑞隆委員請問在場委員我們上次會議議事錄有無錯誤沒有那我們議事錄確定在詢談前本席先做以下的宣告每位委員發言的時間本會委員6加2分鐘非本會委員4分鐘上午10點30分鐘截止發言登記現在請賴瑞隆委員發言"},{"start":2462.321,"end":2463.247,"text":"謝主席請過部長請過部長"},{"start":2473.141,"end":2490.578,"text":"部長 最近高雄持續有好消息 台積電的P1廠已經提早進機顯示出這個需求是相當大接下來P2到P5也陸續來做部長我想對這事情有什麼看法 應該樂觀其成"},{"start":2492.532,"end":2512.078,"text":"是的,因為整個2奈米的市場需求非常強烈我相信全球大概只有台積電是非常有把握來商業運轉的所以我們也祝福台積電能夠快一點把市場填補讓市場的需求能夠滿足"},{"start":2515.999,"end":2530.999,"text":"這看來整個期程都會關閉萬場就已經提早了接下來這幾個場應該都有機會再往前嘛對不對時程上我們現在也都有在討論也就是說希望能夠滿足這個他們的各項的需求"},{"start":2532.458,"end":2548.677,"text":"半導體產業鏈現在慢慢也在高雄整個建立起來然後也希望部長能夠全力來支持特別是電力大家都知道高雄的電是相當的豐沛的現在蓋新的燃氣電廠我們也希望部長繼續支持半導體產業鏈在高雄來建立起來好嗎"},{"start":2549.286,"end":2576.522,"text":"是謝謝委員的垂詢我想這個台積電它所需要的電力這個是我們台電公司全力以赴的一個範疇我們相信這個我們需要這個台積電的發展那我們更需要台電的這個支持所以台電所有的這個供電可能都會由這個各地方政府來幫助協助那也希望各位委員能夠繼續的協助我們台電的這個發展"},{"start":2577.603,"end":2605.742,"text":"我們臺電穩定的供電給這個臺積電臺積電才有辦法復務全場我只是要跟部長講高雄現在是供電最充沛的縣市是吧這個部分我可能要臺電是不是來好來講一下吧高雄現在是不是整個供電最充沛的縣市是因為高雄有臺電的三座電廠三座大電廠嗎而且我們現在還在新除了三座電廠有40%往中往北送以後我們還在新增燃氣電廠是吧"},{"start":2607.624,"end":2624.339,"text":"對 未來 現在跟未來都會有部分的基礎會增加所以全台灣所有的縣市23個縣市裡面高雄是最發電最充沛的縣市嗎 對嗎是即使現在 未來看來也是啦是 謝謝高雄縣市政府的謝謝 部長再請一下部長"},{"start":2625.68,"end":2650.303,"text":"高雄是整個最充沛縣市所以我希望用電量需要的不管是從半導體產業到AI都是用電相當強的我希望都應該不要只讓高雄來幫忙發電高雄犧牲了環境犧牲了空氣來幫忙發電結果在產業的成果上卻得不到支持我們希望半導體產業鏈跟AI產業鏈要特別重視高雄需求是謝謝委員吹詢回朝這個方向努力吧我們回朝這個方向好謝謝部長"},{"start":2651.184,"end":2674.455,"text":"接下來我來看一下AI部長也提到期盼它成為下一個護國神山因為除了半導體以外AI幾乎現在全世界非常的夯大家非常看好它的發展部長也非常看好它的發展我們看到其實這個佈局很早了高雄其實在9年前我都記得那時候我剛當選立委的時候我們就在開亞洲西灣區的"},{"start":2677.076,"end":2691.588,"text":"產業發展會議其中五大重點第一個重點就是AI產業就是第一個重點五個未來高雄、亞洲西灣區可以發展的重鎮就是AI一開始在包括沈榮慶部長、外民部部長都來參加過陳其邁市長還沒當選前都來參加過當時在一開始討論的時候還"},{"start":2696.352,"end":2714.383,"text":"還不是那麼清晰,但現在越來越清晰,然後後來爭取到了106億5G IoT的一個經費,但後來增加到了雅灣2.0 171億的智慧科技創新園區。部長,持續的支持跟加碼投資AI在雅灣的建設好嗎?"},{"start":2715.796,"end":2740.664,"text":"我們認為這個委員會真的是有先見之明那能夠把高雄創造成一個AI這個比較適合投資的一個都市那我們看得出來其實經濟部在從過去幾任的這個部長的這個努力之下我們有看到目前的一些成果包括從國際的幾個大廠都選擇在回答AMD都來到了高雄"},{"start":2741.524,"end":2741.544,"text":"委員會議員"},{"start":2758.98,"end":2777.138,"text":"這個就會進去啦!你常說的啦!花若盛開蝴蝶自來!我想這個就是讓大家能夠很清楚每一個縣市我們都跟地方政府全力配合但是我們希望地方政府除了花若盛開蝴蝶自來以外也要更多的政府的鼓勵跟支持啦!"},{"start":2777.398,"end":2792.875,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":2792.915,"end":2814.425,"text":"好 謝謝 再要請教一下軍公教明年調薪但是企業我們看一下只有大概只有11%的企業調薪我也希望部長我們想一些方法來鼓勵企業能夠調薪好不好有獲利然後來協助企業調薪我們現在大概有在討論行政院都有在討論這個部分也就是說我們先從這個上市櫃公司來跟他們溝通"},{"start":2815.586,"end":2839.855,"text":"也就是說他們在這個上市櫃公司當有分紅的時候希望能夠把員工的分紅的比率往上調那第二個準備上市櫃公司的這些公司呢也有一些基本的條款來幫助員工比如說剛開始你要上市的公司或是上櫃公司他基本的薪資必須要4萬起薪我們也希望到2027年的時候"},{"start":2841.576,"end":2860.428,"text":"能夠讓這個上市櫃公司的基本薪資能夠拉到5萬這個是一個目標到現在都繼續在討論如何協助台灣的公司能夠更高的獲利當他獲利更高的時候必須要考慮到員工的分紅這個是我們一直在努力的"},{"start":2860.928,"end":2882.905,"text":"委員長這很重要,就是我們把經濟面弄好,把整個產業面弄好,然後企業好的獲利之後也能夠再調新的部分也能夠提升形勢我們行政院院長一直在指示,也就是說部長這個部分是不是一個月的時間給我一份報告好不好,把你們整個規劃的不管是涉及到法律或政策面的給我一份報告,我希望看到"},{"start":2883.545,"end":2907.529,"text":"我們給企業更多的鼓勵跟支持他們在獲利的同時給員工調薪你看這兩年去年今年調4%明年要調3%公務員那企業如果只有11%願意調薪這個真的太可惜了應該帶動整個大家的調薪是我們讓有賺錢的公司都可以大幅的為他的員工增加他的薪酬"},{"start":2909.07,"end":2935.471,"text":"國公營的事業能不能加快因為每次的國公營幾乎拖了差半年才能夠來調薪明年軍工就要調3%國公營應該也會調3%吧是的那什麼時候可以定案我們現在上一次總統到台電去視察的時候我們大概也有跟台電台水的同仁都有分享也就是說國營的事業明年的起薪我們希望是從4萬開始"},{"start":2937.172,"end":2957.45,"text":"來做我們他的起薪,現在目前大概都在3萬出頭嘛,那我們希望透過提升他的技術增加,然後調薪也要動,比照軍公教調薪好不好,這個部長加快速度啦好不好,不要落差,像今年差了快半年才調完,這個差太久了好不好。"},{"start":2958.01,"end":2974.183,"text":"最後一個請教一下大家一直在上個禮拜有院會有通過一個針對於財產申報的部分不只針對你現在連部會首長都擴級了要求要來做相關的一個調查我們看他調查的報告是怎麼寫的他寫說這個"},{"start":2977.826,"end":2995.886,"text":"行政院的部分首長疑似規避公職人員財產申報法第7條的規定強制信託的義務涉及不當財產移轉及規避贈與稅等逃漏稅的事宜所以要成立這個調查小委員會我先問部長,部長你有涉及到這個部分違法的問題嗎?"},{"start":2996.767,"end":3020.584,"text":"完全沒有完全沒有啦齁那好完全沒有那第二個是我要問的是部長那你認為用這樣的方式全面的來調查所有的部會首長用這樣的方式來調查會不會影響到優秀人才來出任政務官的意願這個留給這個社會公平好了部長我這樣講啦會不會影響你來自於民間企業嘛"},{"start":3022.081,"end":3050.504,"text":"我當然已經進來了我當然沒有問題其他人可能都不敢進來會不會影響就你的感覺如果這樣會不會影響到民間企業未來如果我們要邀請更多優秀人才來到像你的身價你看財產申報已經出來了這個3億以上嘛對啊你大可不一定要進到來當這個部會首長你也一樣可以過很好的生活了嘛但是有很多人一樣比如說甚至跟早之前傳出童子賢可能要來"},{"start":3052.005,"end":3080.042,"text":"這個來擔任院長那這樣的角度如果這樣的東西持續的發生會不會影響到企業界優秀的領導人所謂的財產申報這個應該是如果有問題的話應該是監察院來查嘛對我的意思是說有問題監察院會處理有問題檢調也會處理但是由政治力去對於政務官用這樣的方式會不會讓就像上半年度我們談的國會擴選法一樣用這樣的方式去處理的時候會不會對於優秀的民間人才"},{"start":3081.143,"end":3098.598,"text":"政府部門進來成為政務官會不會有壓力?部長你認為民間的企業會不會有壓力?我們如果都是誠實報告的人應該是沒有壓力但是這個查應該不是誠實的申報不會有壓力嗎?但是查本身會不會對你產生壓力?心情不會很好"},{"start":3100.58,"end":3100.88,"text":"請您代話委員質詢"},{"start":3131.278,"end":3134.739,"text":"國安及產業發展 聚焦在太陽光發電設備結合儲能系統去紅化"},{"start":3158.862,"end":3176.158,"text":"經濟部公布了台太陽光電發電設備結合儲能系統的競標公告在11月6日不久前公告說實在是也沒寫說你禁用中國製的電磁性或相關的模組"},{"start":3177.52,"end":3180.944,"text":"本刑再繼續鎖之,你們出了這張公文,這公文最後這一頁,他就講到說,陳南商得選用中國字的電池芯。"},{"start":3194.122,"end":3196.264,"text":"中國的電磁星有沒有替代?傳統的電磁星在2022年前年前"},{"start":3217.618,"end":3225.064,"text":"統計中國、日本、韓國南掛全球液態鋰電池產量近三分之二全球近六成的液態鋰電池芯"},{"start":3233.151,"end":3249.418,"text":"電池組三分之二中日韓南瓜去了但是在電池芯的部分義大利電池芯六成是來自中國我國國內的電池現在的總產量整個電池組的總產量占全國義大利電池不到2%"},{"start":3250.916,"end":3272.347,"text":"那我們國內的這個電池的發展有沒有利基呢那當然有我們是應該鎖定高功率及創新應用的固態鋰電池而不是液態搶下來高單價的利基市場這所謂高單價利基市場後面我也講我們的市場在哪裡在無人機在電動車"},{"start":3276.289,"end":3304.356,"text":"好部長這個我們來看一下國際的這個戰爭二屋戰爭之後讓整個國防系統有了一個醒思我們無人機如何輕量化包括我民用的貨車你希望有電動卡車電動卡車是要載貨的所以當你的電池越大的時候當然它載貨量就少所以電池的輕量化機載的輕量化電池的輕量化這個是一個趨勢那市場的量體在哪裡"},{"start":3305.646,"end":3306.246,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":3325.675,"end":3336.178,"text":"的這樣的一個無人機市場這是臺灣有機會的所以他的電池的這個固態電池是我們的利基那我為什麼說他有利基呢這個來臺灣固態電池啊切入高單價這邊啊這個我要這個爬梳出來這前三家都是美國的企業第4家呢叫輝能他是臺灣的廠商中國的資金但是工廠在法國"},{"start":3354.244,"end":3371.26,"text":"後面這一家是用臺灣的資源去給工研院研發出來育成的這個廠商愛國者能源但是他的產能我這邊列出來的是國際固態電池的優秀的廠商我們可以排名進去耶"},{"start":3375.78,"end":3380.761,"text":"國際資源支援固態鋰電池與傳統電池有什麼優勢?固態鋰電池優於液態電池以電動車作應用更產生固態液電池有更高的能量密度"},{"start":3404.326,"end":3420.753,"text":"他有更輕的重量第三他有更長的續航力這張表在我的這個電子的模組的能量他可以呢這個可以固態的優於液態的將近三倍他的行駛的車輛固態電池可以應液態電池達到35%到70那他的成本每一次充電的成本他可以降低30%到70"},{"start":3430.257,"end":3457.63,"text":"好再來從國安的角度黎巴嫩的爆炸事件美聯社多名的專家認為很可能是呼叫器的供應鏈被入侵在製作過程當中已會已經填入炸藥電池只有過充過熱才會爆炸他現在是數千具的BB扣同時爆炸所以這個只有可能很大的可能是供應鏈深入高爆性的炸藥才有可能好"},{"start":3458.53,"end":3470.422,"text":"那我們的儲人裡面的電子芯 都可以用電子芯當中導入爆藥而讓它集體爆炸你說這個電子芯 這個電子模組我要不要去紅化"},{"start":3471.723,"end":3487.734,"text":"政府基於國安的理由,接近黎巴嫩的爆炸,面臨特殊區域政治形勢,政府及國營事業的光儲能設備是否列為關鍵基礎設施?中油已經將儲油設施列為關鍵基礎設備,那台電是不是要重新檢討你的光儲能廠是否要列為關鍵基礎設施?"},{"start":3501.743,"end":3505.668,"text":"國際市場推廣過程中,臺灣是優勢而且是用政府資源去支持出來的。經濟部當然要支持"},{"start":3517.061,"end":3541.326,"text":"國內的固態離電池的製造產業切入國際的固態離電池的南海市場擺脫中國製的電池業者好本席的具體要求也請部長能夠具體回應據區域政治的情勢國安考量政府經國一企業的關鍵基礎設施嚴禁中國製設備進入國家標案檢視線有了太陽光電"},{"start":3543.566,"end":3568.417,"text":"發電設備結合儲能系統的設備你這個蓄能系統也就是跟電子型電子模組電子型有關我們有國內的你可以國內也有液態日韓也有液態我們都有替代產品固態的是我們自己現在正在研發的好那我覺得這是中油都可以把它的儲能潮當作關鍵基礎深思台電的你的儲能系統"},{"start":3569.497,"end":3586.413,"text":"要不然你的綠能發電你一定要有完備的儲能系統才能穩定電力第二個因應川普當選去紅化可能是國際市場的主要影響重點輔導國產的固態電池產業協助推廣到國內外的電動載具及無人載具部長怎麼針對這兩個訴求您回應一下"},{"start":3593.519,"end":3609.152,"text":"是,我們謝謝這個委員的隨詢。我想對第一點,我們會馬上深入的這個檢討。那麼未來這個屬於這個國家的這個標案,那麼就是類似這個太陽能發電這些設備啊這些儲能的這個標準規範裡面,我們會訂出來這個"},{"start":3615.237,"end":3636.192,"text":"去紅化這是第一點第二點就是我們這個固態電池確實是如委員所垂詢的我們現在工研院正加速在跟這個產業在合作所以我相信在大家的祝福之下我們希望這個明後年就能夠開始量產大量量產"},{"start":3636.952,"end":3640.816,"text":"這個量產我真的需要你們這個經濟部你看這張圖你看因為我們的公司小所以你看當後你2027到2028也就三四年後今年2024你看這個全球的美國的部分它量產每年到91GWh"},{"start":3659.136,"end":3687.367,"text":"到這個他的前三家都到80到100這當中但是我們國內每年只能到20GWh我們有技術我們只是在資金人才這個部分要多一些助力所以在相關的這個輔導計畫我拜託這個部長您是不是要加碼一下我們這個都有一些鼓勵的政策來那技術師師長你有點頭來你要怎麼輔導我是不是部長讓技術師來講一下"},{"start":3691.709,"end":3695.19,"text":"技術上已經進行一些開發,但是後續的話就是要去進行後續的量產的協助,那我們政府一定要大力的來予協助。"},{"start":3709.356,"end":3726.173,"text":"部長、市長這個在跟時間賽跑既然現在的無人機包括電動機的輕量化這就是在這次惡霧戰爭中很明顯的轉變市場的一個局勢如果國內有這樣的技術我還不加碼搶進這個市場再兩三年後我們就沒有"},{"start":3727.014,"end":3727.274,"text":"請求委員諮詢"},{"start":3761.526,"end":3782.013,"text":"謝謝主席我是不是請一下郭部長請郭部長還沒好部長早請稍等一下這個可以了"},{"start":3785.67,"end":3806.743,"text":"部長,我想今天我們在討論整個經濟部明年度的總預算那當然經濟部組長很重要的一個就是台灣的經濟發展整個投資台灣的計畫所以部長我想先第一個來跟您請教投資台灣的三大方案這個應該算是經濟部的一個很重要的課題對不對"},{"start":3808.484,"end":3816.45,"text":"根據你們114年度明年度的預算編列這個向下的委辦費只有編列到1672萬相對你整個經濟部的預算裡頭這個算是很小的比113年度還少了322萬那當然我們知道就是說整個投資台灣的這一些"},{"start":3831.701,"end":3846.337,"text":"經費發展其實都是在國發會向下經濟部大概就是成立一個單一的服務窗口來服務這些台商部長我想讓您看一下這個是到目前為止經濟部原來的目標是2024年年底要帶動國內的投資是2.4兆預計要創造16萬點8"},{"start":3852.223,"end":3852.383,"text":"本國16.8萬個就業機會"},{"start":3882.344,"end":3896.841,"text":"不過我想要更進一步請教就你們提供的這一些辦理的情形報告裡頭其實在進行中的加速包括台商回台的方案跟留台灣的方案中小企業的方案"},{"start":3898.042,"end":3925.72,"text":"進行中的大概只有41%點多那跟流台灣的方案跟中小企業方案也勉強過了五成部長可不可以說明一下這個大概有一半的左右的這些投資案沒有完成到底是什麼原因從2019年的整個大計畫投資台灣的大計畫開始實施一直到今年年底還有差不多將近一半沒有完成你們可不可以稍微分析一下是"},{"start":3926.661,"end":3938.841,"text":"有什麼樣的阻礙或者是說有什麼樣的行政程序沒有走完來 部長 讓您說明一下報告委員 我想最大的原因就是我們職工的招聘有一點困難"},{"start":3939.919,"end":3958.656,"text":"職工的招聘,受聘人員,這個跟缺工是有很大的關係,但是他的整個你覺得這個完全都只是因為職工的招聘有困難嗎?在建制上面在資料審核上面等等這些其實都沒有問題,完全都"},{"start":3960.827,"end":3962.97,"text":"投資地點、工廠設置等等"},{"start":3972.073,"end":3976.655,"text":"三大方案在112年度的部分它應該完成的加數是593家那實際上是完成了561家那其實完成率是有達到95"},{"start":3990.32,"end":4010.111,"text":"今年的部分希望到年底可以完成913家目前已經完成的就有689家我現在講就是說你們現在提供的這些資料還有其實大概只有過一半而已部長有說所謂的投資台灣三大方案未來還要再延長"},{"start":4011.973,"end":4037.412,"text":"我在想有沒有可能我是不是到今年年底為止經濟部能夠送一個檢討報告出來就是針對從2019年到現在你們所執行的成效做一個檢討那未來我們的投資台灣三大方案還要再往下延到2017年還要再往下延那你未來希望達到的目標是不是也能夠再"},{"start":4038.473,"end":4038.753,"text":"國人或立法院"},{"start":4057.803,"end":4079.704,"text":"現在剩下兩個月就今年就過完了嘛2024年就過完了嘛所以你如果我讓您到2024年結束之後2025年的年初是不是能夠給立法院給經濟委員會一個完整的檢討報告然後接下來接下去你們的下一個延長的期程預計要做到什麼樣的"},{"start":4081.625,"end":4100.383,"text":"預計要做到什麼樣的目標,是不是也能夠提出一併的規劃?可以嗎?好,我們來努力。好,謝謝。來部長,那我接下來齁,你講到投資台灣,大概也不外乎每個人都會問到嘛,水啊、夠不夠啊、電啊、夠不夠啊。所以,電夠不夠這件事情,大家一直"},{"start":4101.164,"end":4104.848,"text":"除了台灣的電夠不夠的問題是除能系統的規劃本席大概在5年前就開始在立法院這裡倡議台電應該要建制除能系統"},{"start":4119.264,"end":4144.824,"text":"這個我們看到這個是台電的所謂的資料整理從鹽田光電到高雄的鹿園到龍潭到東山到民間業者跟電力交易平台的這個建置這一張圖是東山的這個變電所所建置的儲能設備你們說東山的這個變電所呢所建置的儲能設備是可以滿足8000戶家庭一日所需嗎"},{"start":4147.867,"end":4168.004,"text":"這個儲能系統的建置放在這樣一個超高壓的變電所我不知道部長能不能回答還是請台電你們未來在相關的這些超高壓變電所的儲能建置除了你現在列出來的這些以外有沒有再增加的可能性"},{"start":4169.213,"end":4196.967,"text":"跟委員報告就是除能的需求是逐步逐步的成長那目前現在應該是要大幅的成長吧你有很多的再生能源是對火力發電你其實是需要很多的除能系統是因為我們台灣有個優勢就是有個日月潭的抽蓄電廠那個是在全世界是非常罕見的一個好的一個措施這個部分就提供了2.6GW的這個量目前我們系統上面的除能"},{"start":4198.467,"end":4227.075,"text":"總共大概已經有2.2GW所以2.6再加1.2總共已經有3.8GW的這樣儲能這個可以滿足多少的用電戶如果以剛才看到的你這樣子可以滿足多少來這個是你們台電的這個逐日用電曲線也可以看出你的儲能其實也發揮了相當的功效嘛對不對總經理那您剛剛講的那一些能夠滿足多少的用電戶甚至就是說部長拍胸脯保證"},{"start":4228.837,"end":4232.914,"text":"的這些用電的需求量臺電如何能夠來逐步達成"},{"start":4234.994,"end":4262.283,"text":"這個部分主要是我們的除能的目的主要是做白天太陽光電大的時候把電除下來到晚上我們盡量不要用傳統的火力機組來發電主要是這個目的所以你的除能的建置其實是非常的需要我們現在推動的所謂的再生能源不管你的水力發電火力發電或者是太陽能光電其實能夠把這些多餘的電除下來"},{"start":4263.183,"end":4265.244,"text":"德國把他們退役的核電廠轉型,變成他們的電池儲能廠。"},{"start":4287.045,"end":4313.352,"text":"台灣的核電廠已經都在逐步退役當中有沒有可能我們去參考參考先進國家參考德國的這一些核電廠的轉型設施然後來當作台灣未來退役的核電廠也能夠有這樣的一個除能設備的建置除能廠的建置把它轉型成電池的除能廠"},{"start":4316.439,"end":4320.643,"text":"現行的核能廠除役完成需要25年"},{"start":4322.159,"end":4324.881,"text":"其實你的廚藝需要25年嘛但是你現在如果開始規劃或者是說開始有這樣進一步否則你那個原來的退役的核電廠的地址"},{"start":4347.901,"end":4347.921,"text":"謝謝 謝謝委員"},{"start":4383.609,"end":4412.467,"text":"請張七凱委員質詢大家主席 請要保定"},{"start":4413.327,"end":4437.532,"text":"請部長委員長 川普早上宣布說他上任的第一天他就要發布命令了要對大陸喔 現在重點 所有的產品他上一任是對部分的產品嘛 對不對 他宣布第一天"},{"start":4438.499,"end":4452.215,"text":"就要對所有大陸進口的產品加徵10%的關稅而且後續可能包括東南亞一些國家越南都在裡面台商很多在台中本來後來就有一些移到東南亞去了"},{"start":4453.84,"end":4478.716,"text":"政府要怎麼幫他們?我們會根據在中國的台商然後根據他們未來的市場導向然後跟他分類根據他如果說他是以中國的市場為他的目標的我們就會幫他協助他轉到目前還在討論就是說我們是不是轉去對中國比較friendly的這個"},{"start":4481.138,"end":4493.628,"text":"大陸的台商衝擊很大,因為他一下子就兜了10%的關稅出來,所以這個要幫忙,以前他們就可能移到東南亞,現在他講了,之後還在東南亞也要開始加稅啊。"},{"start":4498.594,"end":4524.344,"text":"臺商他是以歐美為他的這個目標市場的話我們盡量就是轉到這個美國可能會比較friendly的這個這樣的一個國家去協助他們轉進到這些國家另外一個最好的方法當然是讓他回臺灣嘛剛剛講我們投資臺灣最近做得不錯啊可是我們也發現投資臺灣很多臺商從大陸回來之後就碰到五缺嘛"},{"start":4525.529,"end":4544.698,"text":"所以現在很多投資是我們回來是已經通過囉可是後來設廠什麼那些都延宕了這個可能要加油啦我們就肯定投資台灣這幾年這幾年這個有貢獻可是真的碰到五缺的問題你對台商的狀況應該很了解嘛對不對回來就是要找土地沒土地嘛水電也是問題嘛缺工嘛阿所以"},{"start":4546.104,"end":4569.79,"text":"很多投資臺灣的回來案子就擺在那裡,到現在進度就是延宕了。我們報告委員,我的想法就是說協助在中國的臺商能夠有兩個面向,一個就是讓他能夠低成本化,另外一個是能夠提升他的價值化,所以我們低成本我們是盡量讓他在未來的製造能夠接近他的客戶,接近他的客戶。"},{"start":4570.51,"end":4586.679,"text":"那在台灣製造,如果他是seeking台灣的這個市場當然我們協助他在台灣製造如果他是別的地方,我們盡量協助他靠近他的市場這是第二,第二個我們希望他是能夠加值化"},{"start":4587.54,"end":4611.394,"text":"那加值化他當然要看他未來這個市場如何去加值啦所以我們都有在幫助他們思考未來的這個競爭力如果印尼回台灣了我們當然要幫他解決五缺的問題第一個你說就地那美國就顯然就不是了嘛對不對那這要想辦法要多幫忙好不好另外我要談最近很熱門的一個議題就是霸凌霸凌一開始從勞動部這邊"},{"start":4613.96,"end":4638.511,"text":"燒起來之後啊 不然你們會注意到嗎 你的中友啊 台電 媒體上都點名啊中友啊 有人出來申訴 這個母親都看不下去 她的小孩 她女兒被霸凌都兩度輕生了 然後呢 你們的調查竟然裡面還出現跟勞動部一樣的"},{"start":4640.782,"end":4663.318,"text":"中友臺中異化天然氣場他自己去做調查他裡面講到就是利益良善啊現在前陣子為什麼弄到連勞動部長都下臺就是因為勞動部的調查裡面講到說他的利益是良善的結果一樣的字眼出現在中友的調查報告裡面這個案子你目前你不一定了解是怎樣中友這邊後來查的狀況是怎麼樣"},{"start":4666.331,"end":4669.192,"text":"他現在引起最大的討論第一點就是因為你們初步的調查報告裡面出現利益良善這個字眼"},{"start":4693.203,"end":4694.024,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":4705.458,"end":4706.298,"text":"臺電媒體聯繫報導說有去年跟今年都有員工跳樓"},{"start":4738.508,"end":4761.519,"text":"你們認為是心理問題嘛 對不對那個總經理你們說初步你們調查是心理問題嘛那媒體就質疑啊 特別都說當事人或是旁邊的職員都出來檢舉說是霸凌嘛那解決方法是什麼 跟中友一樣啊經濟部進去查 好不好 這幾天啊我的臉書跟我的辦公室接到一堆的那個檢舉經濟部裡面"},{"start":4765.316,"end":4788.459,"text":"國營事業,還有一些附屬機關,真的我給部長看一個圖你看這個圖有一個員工被霸凌金屬中心員工被霸凌因為他在一次的這個視訊的準備上面沒有準備好他的長官叫他做什麼事情"},{"start":4790.165,"end":4805.973,"text":"強迫他出遊假日要參加活動事信沒弄好叫他背一個事信要提早準備郭柵當街示眾讓大家看會不會太離間這個被霸凌者他們現在一些人來檢取他們幫這個被霸凌者"},{"start":4816.803,"end":4846.043,"text":"含冤跟抗議的時候 這個被霸凌 欸 金屬中心居順金管 你看裡面大概九成以上都受試嘛 六成以上都破書 你知道這個被霸凌的人 在金屬中心工作的時候受到這種待遇 他現在在某一個大學在教授欸一個高潔麗 很勤奮在工作的人 在金屬中心裡面被他的副處長副處長你看他被那個 這個叫羞辱帶嘛"},{"start":4848.492,"end":4876.891,"text":"我們現在已經在調查應該是29號就會有結果出來這個案子你29號會有結果?對對對我調查完畢啦我調查完畢然後開始進入這個審查29號是經濟部進去查金屬中心?我們金屬中心現在他自己本身啟動這個調查金屬中心本身有啟動這個調查這是一個部處長他這個被霸凌者現在雖然離開了可是你看這個真的很不堪他背那個羞辱帶"},{"start":4887.398,"end":4904.508,"text":"上禮拜我特別提醒信保基金的這個事情現在又有人進來說不是只有什麼性騷擾的問題啊連霸凌都有霸凌現在人家已經去申訴了信保基金這個案子最嚴重在什麼地方"},{"start":4905.885,"end":4934.69,"text":"他的董事長,信保基金的董事長接到性騷擾的案子,拖了一個半夜才處理。為什麼?性騷擾者他本身是個協理,他還是工會的理事長,結果後來都是工會出來幫忙講話。你這樣對這個性騷擾者公平嗎?更重要的,到底為什麼現在所有經濟部發生問題的,都是原單位去調查?你應該就跳脫,至少要上一層嘛,對不對?"},{"start":4936.072,"end":4937.672,"text":"你們事實上是有一個辦法嘛 對不對你們經濟部有一個"},{"start":4967.828,"end":4987.74,"text":"經濟部這個職場霸凌防治跟申訴這個要點可是這裡面最嚴重的大部分都停了到研單位調查完以後就停止了所以今天我們部長我們非常明確要求上層一方面你說他調查OK調查完目前大家看到都是不滿意的對不對?因為中油、台電、信保基金"},{"start":4993.278,"end":5013.685,"text":"你這個辦法是在去年12月開始實施的一個禮拜好了你將近這一年到底受到多少審視處理的狀況是怎麼樣的 送到本席辦公室行政院長已經說了 其實上禮拜說過這禮拜所有霸凌案件都要清過你現在進度已經落後囉我沒有在進行 你說29號嘛"},{"start":5016.417,"end":5042.217,"text":"不是,我們是29號他們會調查完29號調查完嗎?對不是,那你這樣進度已經落後卓院長的進度啦他是不是一個禮拜以內就要簽完啊?要趕快啦好不好?那你簽完趕快把那個報告送到本級辦公室來一定要避免這個霸凌的狀況你看現在勞動部是因為已經鬧出人命了那你發現我們現在整個法令漏洞太多了所以我們要推那個吹噪者保護法"},{"start":5043.325,"end":5044.686,"text":"再請經濟部把調查報告給本委員會的所有委員"},{"start":5073.843,"end":5084.938,"text":"請鄭正前委員質詢謝謝主席 歡迎郭部長請郭部長"},{"start":5094.082,"end":5121.802,"text":"委員長部長好我延續一下剛剛張綺雅委員的一個問題就是說川普上來之後其實已經很清楚中國要加稅10%那墨西哥跟加拿大這邊也要加增25%那其實由於東南亞國家尤其像越南可能也會在下一波的一個增加關稅的一個名單當中那現在這麼多的台商在大陸跟越南然後"},{"start":5122.122,"end":5132.41,"text":"加上越南跟大陸的台商跟台灣都有很大的一個供應鏈的一個關係那對於這樣的一個增加關稅的部分對於台灣的企業會不會產生怎麼樣的影響?經濟部這邊有什麼樣的評估?"},{"start":5134.877,"end":5152.365,"text":"報告委員我想這一部分這是川普上來以後他會影響的除了這個進口的關稅之外我們也在看這個匯率的問題會產生什麼樣的變化那麼這個利息的部分會產生什麼樣的變化這裡面大概對經濟的影響變化是蠻大的"},{"start":5155.566,"end":5173.068,"text":"所以我剛才有跟這個張委員報告也就是說經濟部的立場就是說保護我們國家的這些廠商那他現在在中國的或者是他現在在越南的我們都要協助他他未來的客人是不是"},{"start":5173.929,"end":5197.325,"text":"是美國的客戶或其他地方的客戶會有影響的就是美國這個市場所以說如果是針對美國因為川普上來之後產生了很大的一個影響那其實對很多台商來講其實他本來在大陸或在越南生產很多的市場也是放在美國那我們經濟部這邊有沒有什麼更具體的一個做法可以去協助因為如果不是往美國出口當然這個問題就不大對"},{"start":5199.927,"end":5227.106,"text":"那我們這邊有沒有更多具體的一個作為要怎麼往下做?我們會先了解他的意願。第二個,協助他離開中國。那也協助他們離開越南嗎?很多越南投資都還沒有回本喔。現在越...對,那所以我們會先從他這個資本支出比較大的這個企業裡面,我們先了解他的意願。那資本支出比較少的,我們當然就協助他轉移陣地了。"},{"start":5227.906,"end":5249.459,"text":"在這部分我想川普上來之後對整個國際貿易的部分一定會產生很大的影響我覺得經濟部這邊一定要有更詳細的一個能力往下去關注那在這部分的時候我也想特別問一個部分就是有關於台積電台積電在亞利桑那這邊的時候目前總共要設置幾個廠"},{"start":5256.623,"end":5267.75,"text":"三個廠,它的製程有多先進?可不可以說明一下?第一個廠,什麼時候要生產?然後什麼時候要開始量產?然後是幾奈米的一個技術?"},{"start":5268.77,"end":5282.778,"text":"現在第一個廠 現在剛剛這個test-on-in已經完了 那明年初就會正式量產 明年初開始量產 但是要run到那個full capacity我想這個根據過去的這個經驗 大概要一兩年"},{"start":5285.399,"end":5303.976,"text":"那一年多以後他的那個fab 2才會開始去關breaking因為之前我們原本在講說臺電到外面去的時候都是以那個成熟製程先進製程基本上不出去可是現在我們看到在美國這個部分的時候第一座的時候他預計要用4奈米的製程已經是非常先進的製程了"},{"start":5305.017,"end":5306.258,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於經濟部及所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":5320.989,"end":5323.231,"text":"臺積電是一個獨立的公司嗎?它是一個民間的公司"},{"start":5349.65,"end":5373.64,"text":"他一定要能夠賺錢他才會往那邊走所以就是說就是希望他要賺錢所以以商言商的時候台積電原本也不想到美國去就像三星一樣他不斷的在拖可是我們政府這邊的就讓台積電直接過去了那個部長你知道嗎按照我們國安法第三條我們有一個國家核心關鍵技術如果要輸出的時候需要主管"},{"start":5374.96,"end":5376.381,"text":"以目前的法令的規定是這個樣子?"},{"start":5402.037,"end":5428.528,"text":"延續上一個問題就是台灣目前基本上似乎沒有在整個美國要增加關稅的一個名單當中可是我們對台積電這部分是不是可以對於整個台灣的一個安全或者各方面一個綜合的一個談判的一個籌碼經濟部在這邊是不是應該扮演更積極的角色因為我們所有的關鍵核心關鍵技術輸出是需要你這邊同意的"},{"start":5429.943,"end":5450.645,"text":"然後您剛才所垂詢的這個問題我想現在就像您剛才所說的進入到國安的這個部分所以不是只有經濟部同意他就能夠出去理解可是因為現在就是14奈米以下的一個先進製程這邊的時候要能夠出去就是要經濟部同意"},{"start":5450.945,"end":5465.992,"text":"所以我覺得經濟部對於台積電在技術輸出的時候去海外設廠的時候肯定有很大的一個影響力而且對於就是台積電護國神山這個部分如何去讓台灣有更多的一個國際談判籌碼經濟部事關重大"},{"start":5470.565,"end":5493.451,"text":"我們確實是如委員所垂詢的這一部分我們都有強化在這個台積電的部分那到目前為止因為這個之前他有做的這個亞利桑那這個廠這個室內米美國這一部分其實這樣這個就台積電的客戶他希望在你這個東西在美國可以取得"},{"start":5494.051,"end":5518.637,"text":"理解喔部長可是我想說在商言商之前張宗謀前董事長他也表示說其實在美國是不一定是一個很好的一個投資的一個狀態齁那三星期一有政府的支持他們目前至少不斷在拖延技術性的一個拖延可是台灣這邊是完全的配合那麼我們希望經濟部這邊能夠變成台積電背後的一個談判的一個靠山好不好因為否則我覺得2029年"},{"start":5519.597,"end":5544.402,"text":"如果說我們的A16、16A的技術也直接過去的時候那我擔心台灣這邊所謂的一個最先進的一個技術我們未必能夠真的在手上那如果再加上地緣政治的影響之後的時候搞不好之後全世界最先進的製程就在美國而不一定在台灣好不好這部分我們希望經濟部這邊能夠多多變成台積電後面的一個靠山是"},{"start":5545.382,"end":5550.007,"text":"昨天25日產發署提到一個產業淨零成功轉型的發表,我們看到一個數字,就是從民國95年到112年當中,"},{"start":5567.136,"end":5567.576,"text":"報告委員剛開始"},{"start":5595.01,"end":5608.869,"text":"委員會選擇比較好做的先去做越來越困難了嘛 對不對可是因為明年要開始增碳費然後因為環境部這邊也對於碳費其實有所謂優惠費率的部分"},{"start":5610.01,"end":5626.125,"text":"自主減碳的部分所以我們想要特別關注一下我們產發署這邊怎麼樣去輔導企業導入新的低碳創新的技術然後在政策上面有沒有更大的誘因讓企業能夠投入自願減碳的行列當中"},{"start":5630.129,"end":5636.876,"text":"報告委員我們有兩項措施第一個是我們會修產創條例10-1條把節能減碳的這個項目納入投資抵減的範圍而且把這個可納可扣抵的稅額擴大到18億來鼓勵他們投入節能減碳的設備第二個我們會輔導他們去提自主減量計畫來取得優惠的"},{"start":5652.892,"end":5653.773,"text":"張明工業區金鼎焚化爐蓋不蓋?"},{"start":5675.731,"end":5699.968,"text":"金鼎的部分這個可能需要這個縣政府的這個同意因為現在的情況就是說我知道經濟部現在一下推給環境部一下推給地方政府那到底最後蓋不蓋因為我在主管機關畢竟還在經濟部這個地方那如果說沒有蓋之後那經濟部這邊會不會碰到了一個違約金額要賠償的問題要賠多少錢"},{"start":5703.105,"end":5703.265,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":5706.58,"end":5706.72,"text":"主席"},{"start":5737.04,"end":5737.06,"text":"請楊瓊義委員質詢"},{"start":5770.52,"end":5771.101,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":5781.977,"end":5794.145,"text":"委員長我們首先來討論促進投資加速投資臺灣的服務計畫那我看到你在114年的委辦費裡頭我覺得很納悶你的委辦費反而是減少的你114年是編列了1672萬3000元那主要"},{"start":5801.929,"end":5828.681,"text":"是在辦理整個投資臺灣三大方案的單一窗口的服務這個事項那本席認為很納悶喔這個你既然會自動減少但是我也看到或許是因為這個原因不知道也就在審計部呢112年當中的總決算裡頭他有合宿出道的意見你整個投資呢這個三大方案裡頭引導廠商投資以及協助升級轉級呢預辦"},{"start":5830.842,"end":5851.772,"text":"投資案件沒有完成那麼予以改善或者是如期完成以希望能夠達到你的政治目標在這樣的一個情況之下還有一個什麼呢有廠商在完成之後他的投資獲利他沒有跟員工來共享或者是核定龍帶的部分呢他沒有符合"},{"start":5852.492,"end":5858.874,"text":"在這樣的一個情況之下導致是不是因為如此導致你在114年的預算你反而你反而是減少了322萬7千萬元這個在我們整個產業界來講是很華然的一件事情那所以本期要請教113年底也就是現在快要到了剩一個多月投資臺灣的三大方案"},{"start":5877.199,"end":5878.38,"text":"本期請教你們在今年年底借期之後會不會繼續辦理"},{"start":5905.194,"end":5906.075,"text":"經濟部及所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":5931.33,"end":5957.94,"text":"總金額需要的目標是在增加6千億的投資增加6千億的投資那本席再告訴你為什麼114年你的委辦會減少呢因為這個部分是編在科專的計畫裡面那因為科專統三的關係所以減少那因為原來的原因是你請回座來部長你來自企業界你聽到政府是如此統三所以導致減少"},{"start":5958.94,"end":5968.103,"text":"讓人家很嘩然所以第一個我們確認這個對台灣的企業來講非常重要我們確認也就是113年底到我們會延續三年希望創造6000億的一個產值那麼在你們的違辦費當中113年的你竟然在114年減少了300多萬"},{"start":5983.869,"end":5991.742,"text":"這個是不對的你們要怎麼樣去調整符合我們企業界的所需第二個也就是說針對於為什麼還有預辦"},{"start":5994.844,"end":6020.834,"text":"我申請通過我還在做的那在整個你們的方案裡頭可以怎麼樣經濟讓產業界可以好好的跟著政府去打拼政府好好做企業界的靠山這是我們要的認不認同完全認同完全認同那你把經濟方案給本席那我們確認也就是113年底到我們的方案再延長三年告訴給我們的這個產業界朋友請放心政府還是你的靠山"},{"start":6021.79,"end":6027.434,"text":"年底一併經濟方案因為我們要延續再延續三年接下來本期還是要跟你討論電的問題114年我們在講你的追加預算今天在財委會經濟委員會財委會一起的討論"},{"start":6051.028,"end":6066.998,"text":"這一家的是一千億那如果明年的預算公務預算一千億換句話說總撥補是多少五千億假設假設這兩千億再通過所以本席要請教因為本席也覺得部長你還是蠻有gas的因為你說10月16號執行到現在我們現在兩個半月"},{"start":6077.825,"end":6096.891,"text":"那麼你預估會收入的電費漲價的從10月16號開始是150億那全年約可以預注740億那如果台電截至到去年累計的是虧損3800億那再加上今年度113年是850億那這樣子是4600億"},{"start":6101.872,"end":6121.576,"text":"但是部長我說你用烏紗帽來打包票那您說的如果撥補2000億兩年後兩年內還漲電價那就是管理太差該走人但是你也會跟台電的員工共同來努力不使台電再繼續虧損這是你講的話嗎"},{"start":6125.97,"end":6137.024,"text":"我曾經有講過類似的話是你講的話嗎?是不是?不要咬人絕痴是您說的話嗎?對不對?這個方向是對的所以你現在還是維持這個方向是不是?"},{"start":6138.192,"end":6139.994,"text":"電價不是我決定的我先問你討論"},{"start":6163.976,"end":6164.617,"text":"管理方向"},{"start":6194.056,"end":6197.439,"text":"明年的電價會不會漲價不是我能決定的這個是這個電價審議委員在做決定的"},{"start":6217.5,"end":6233.153,"text":"部長 剛剛本席還說你很有架勢 你現在又沒架勢了怎麼說呢 本席告訴你 我們今年你的追加預算一千億明年的公務一千億 假設真的再撥補就五千億你已經把北市撥這麼大 請問明年還會不會漲價"},{"start":6242.964,"end":6269.731,"text":"請問明年會不會漲價是電價審議委員的部分那我講話那個前提是2000億你給我的以後兩年後他還需要漲價那我就下台就這樣子啊兩年後還需要漲價那不代表明年會漲價是嗎你的解讀是不是你所謂我們再理清楚你所謂的是給了以後你兩年後就不漲"},{"start":6270.831,"end":6275.898,"text":"明年跟後年還是有機會由電價評議委員會去決定資是不是如此因為現在正在審追加預算跟明年度的預算"},{"start":6290.633,"end":6291.634,"text":"財務部長財務部長財務部長財務部長財務部長財務部長財務部長財務部長財務部長財務部長財務部長財務部長財務部長"},{"start":6312.648,"end":6319.573,"text":"接下來如果我們的追加預算1000億再給如果明年114年度的公務預算再撥補1000億那總共5000億再加上10月16號已經漲價在這樣的情況之下請教明年會不會漲價"},{"start":6331.67,"end":6354.689,"text":"明年會不會漲價不是我能夠決定的他是電價審議委員會去決定的所以部長這也是你的回答也是你的論點那個王總經理要回答你是不是告訴我明年不漲價來你趕快講請你趕快講不是跟委員報告啦齁如果因為咬人絕肢沒有用我們希望民眾希望得到答案"},{"start":6356.595,"end":6379.718,"text":"今年如果補1000億給台電今年年底台電就稍微有一點盈餘這些數字你預計會盈餘77億多嘛我本心已經給你看數字看得很清楚請你繼續回答所以我們就是因為有盈餘這些數字都會提供給電價審議委員會在明年的時候會去做參考由他們來決定要不要漲電價"},{"start":6381.139,"end":6392.166,"text":"通膨嚴重未來不支所以我代表人民要請問明年是不是如果再給撥補是不是明年也有盈餘是不是應當不漲讓人民好生活是不是朝這個方向社會上就是整個燃料的價格的變動能夠在預期的範圍之內那當然是會比較樂觀沒有什麼問題沒有問題來部長"},{"start":6407.236,"end":6422.862,"text":"您聽到我還是希望以你企業的管理我們來做討論喔也就是真的人民苦哈哈很辛苦那我們到底要怎麼樣去穩定這非常的重要你不可能撥兩層皮一方面公務預算撥補追加預算撥補一方面再漲價"},{"start":6427.847,"end":6444.72,"text":"然後我們又確認再請問明年是不是部長如果照王總經理這樣講人民似乎有一點安心喔所以部長是不是朝這個方向來努力我們當然是朝這個方向來努力啦我們朝這個方向來努力朝這個方向來努力好接下來"},{"start":6446.801,"end":6467.802,"text":"本期最後一個議題給你也就是經濟部你11月21號復行政院報告城鄉在地共好能量提升計畫要辦理368個城鄉這個評選跟全國競賽這個對於我們中小企業來講是非常非常的重要那其中在你的預算裡頭只有提及4年"},{"start":6468.743,"end":6471.085,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於經濟部及所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":6488.868,"end":6513.663,"text":"我們5億還是一樣的,讓每一個城鄉然後出來然後跟各地方的縣市政府一起來凸顯他的特色讓我們5億人做的事情很少所以我們會辦比賽,全國辦比賽部長你剛才講了中小企業很重要,然後你又說5億很少可以做很少的事情,那我們中小企業該怎麼辦中小企業占我們主要企業很多數"},{"start":6515.149,"end":6526.932,"text":"報告委員我只是講就是說我們會有方法讓整個中小企業起來請問你的方法方案什麼要出來什麼時候出來因為你現在只有畫一個把還沒有啦部長你只有告訴我們要辦比賽拿出368個城鄉的特色你的計畫還沒出來所以本席要請教大家都拭目以待啊什麼時候會出來你的方案"},{"start":6542.336,"end":6543.256,"text":"本期告訴您因為我們在審預算"},{"start":6567.805,"end":6575.612,"text":"我們代表人民要知道它的內容這一筆預算歐不OK今天沒有內容你現在告訴我它的錢很少第二個你告訴我要給一點時間都願意所以我請你們把你的方案拿出來審預算之前請你把你的方案拿出來"},{"start":6587.682,"end":6587.842,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6610.285,"end":6612.788,"text":"一個禮拜放案給本席,但是我也要為我們中小企業來請命,就像部長你所說的,四年五月對我們的中小企業是沒救的啦!對不對?"},{"start":6629.468,"end":6630.248,"text":"陳婷菲委員質詢"},{"start":6659.573,"end":6659.814,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6689.81,"end":6690.11,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6706.221,"end":6720.5,"text":"什麼時候還我們有關於申報回饋一期的部分我們現在已經要求申報的董事長要跟在地的區長跟里長去做充分溝通不用溝通啊這已經是事實了要溝通什麼"},{"start":6721.361,"end":6738.649,"text":"事實了是你要怎麼還這一筆錢給地方這才是最重要請問要溝通什麼在我們的資料裡面環兵裡面已經很清楚寫到他當時候的回饋金是售電收入這四個字大家看得很清楚啦我們大家都是讀過書應該都很清楚什麼叫售電收入"},{"start":6751.514,"end":6764.703,"text":"受電收入不是扣除成本喔不是喔受電收入千分之十這個很清楚那個當時候他們報的沒有署長你看你就要聽他們講話了後面這個所謂的金額3000萬到5000萬你有沒有看到前提當時候他報給上面的是說"},{"start":6777.111,"end":6787.257,"text":"他的售電收入只有那些錢可是沒有想到說原來他的售電收入是增加了好幾倍連好幾倍連好幾十倍所以前提是售電收入的10%所以每年約是3000萬到5000萬這個是當時候他給予"},{"start":6800.649,"end":6827.002,"text":"中央所有的訊息是只有那些錢而已結果沒有想到我們整個售店是網上飆升的你網上飆升之後你當然要增加上去啊所以他為什麼要寫一個約他為什麼要寫一個約約就是未定嘛未定嘛他當時候所提到他預估申辦一期每年大概就是這些收入"},{"start":6828.18,"end":6833.522,"text":"所以才會有所謂約就沒有想到是往上飆升那往上飆升之後那是不是就應該要回饋給民眾這就是這樣嘛因為你每年的計價每年的售電你都會有不一樣的估價跟售電的狀況那你就應該要加上去要回饋的地方啊"},{"start":6852.267,"end":6880.037,"text":"是不是對跟我們報告就是這個案子他是在環評的回饋環評的回饋裡面寫的很清楚嘛這個資料受電收入千分之十這一句話是固定的是確定的那後面是約你看喔他寫說每年回饋金額約為什麼要一個約因為他當時候報給他們的就是大概是這樣的數字"},{"start":6882.912,"end":6889.497,"text":"可是當我們飛上去之後是不是要增加?是不是要增加?是不是要增加?當然阿!他收入 售店收入的千分之十這是確定的"},{"start":6900.762,"end":6923.895,"text":"他沒有任何模糊空間後面反而是因為他們當時候報給環評小組委員會的時候他們報的金額就已經低報了所以他自己寫個約可是我們看的是前面你增加上去是不是應該就要實質你去看我們所有的回饋辦法你看我們所有廠商對政府的回饋辦法"},{"start":6930.592,"end":6956.189,"text":"他看的是前面然後他多少的一個收入就要做多少的回饋拜託我們政府不要再替他講話了所有的人民眼睛都在看從去年講到現在置之不理他有溝通什麼嗎 沒有好署長他的二職在哪裡再來"},{"start":6958.812,"end":6986.323,"text":"請問這也是我一直質疑的第二期工程他沿用一起管線在環評的時候現在我們調出來爭霸根本完全沒有提供在過去一起管線他的安全性還有現在甚至是未來還要再沿用50年沒有環評裡面沒有結果我們委員會也是可以眼睛閉著就給他通過了我不知道他怎麼有那麼大的能耐"},{"start":6987.659,"end":7010.472,"text":"我需要我要求人民一個安全的管線人民一個安全的生活空間結果居然是要你們經濟部能源署去要求申報趕快去做事後現在的管線檢測你們現在不是就在做事後的管線檢測嗎"},{"start":7011.946,"end":7038.413,"text":"報告委員這個管測的檢測工作已經在今年完成那 完成什麼所以嘛本來在環評的時候就要完成的就要提供給環評的結果沒有我們把這件事情爆發之後爆發之後要求你們甚至在去年署長你還記不記得我還特別在審你們的預算的時候做了一個附帶決議"},{"start":7042.663,"end":7064.473,"text":"請問那個附帶決議飛到哪裡去了附帶決議裡面有兩項工作一個就是要做確保這個安全所以我們有要求申辦要做安全的管測的檢測那檢測結果出來了那也為請公園院做第三方認證認證的結果要怎麼認證官官相問要怎麼認證誰能夠相信在這地底下的"},{"start":7065.333,"end":7077.249,"text":"安全性然後他本來一起你跟地方講的他是只有要用到一起50年而已你現在跟地方說沒有連二期都要繼續沿用請問在這之前他有辦過說明會嗎沒有欸"},{"start":7081.434,"end":7089.521,"text":"沒有耶沒有耶在之前都沒辦過說明會那是什麼說明會你知道嗎那說明會我在現場你知道7月份的說明會是什麼嗎是什麼嗎沒有沒有署長我當下開完會我馬上就打電話給你我說你他在辦什麼說明會"},{"start":7107.169,"end":7133.739,"text":"說明會都沒有往後的檢測都講說沒有問題我們沒有問題人民是要聽這些嗎你明明跟地方說一期只能用50年當時候跟地方是這麼講結果現在二期要沿用一期你沒有跟地方說明之前沒有之前都沒有欸是我們要求之後才7月份去開的那一場結果那一場是怎麼會"},{"start":7135.109,"end":7139.533,"text":"是一個貴罪的啦!我不能接受這種貴罪的啦!他是要應付什麼人?他要應付誰?應付你們嗎?還是應付我?陳廷飛沒有那麼好應付啦!各位報告現在所有的這個管線的檢測資料我們都公開在該公司的網站上請問那個公開有什麼用?"},{"start":7154.187,"end":7155.129,"text":"請問公開那個有什麼用?整個程序都違反了!你鬥著走!"},{"start":7168.174,"end":7184.739,"text":"你明明在二期要沿用一起管線的時候你就跟人民報告你就這些檢測報告你結果全部倒著走然後全部都通過了逼著人民要去接受逼著人民要去承擔這個風險請問為什麼為什麼錢他在賺欸人民要承受這樣的痛苦這樣的安全危機為什麼為什麼再來第三點"},{"start":7197.864,"end":7199.526,"text":"我去年就跟你們說這個電業法裡面規定回饋金30%這個專案型電協金是由年度電協金的30%這個是由業者親自來做一個管控對不對"},{"start":7221.077,"end":7236.564,"text":"電協金裡面70%給地方政府那個是定額的回饋那另外30%是要組一個委員會來不要再騙人了啦什麼叫委員會是業者去找的你們裡面"},{"start":7238.468,"end":7257.484,"text":"完全開放根本裡面講到你說嘛第5條我寫得很清楚嘛你自己看嘛這裡面有寫什麼結果我如果沒有追喔去年我如果沒有追喔你知道這30%是要給誰就給業者可以專案使用喔他就變成小金庫喔這個小金庫變成他在打擊一級的小金庫"},{"start":7261.267,"end":7284.215,"text":"根本不知道 這個專案型的裡面我們會要求他有一個審議委員會什麼叫審議委員會審議委員會裡面的成員就包括我們地方政府什麼叫審議委員會 這也是他們找的啊沒有 就包括地方政府是他們找的啊在去年我就叫你們要重新修改然後重新調整甚至要把所有的問題點出來到底這個專案型電協計要怎麼處理到現在到現在一年了"},{"start":7291.243,"end":7310.256,"text":"去年審預算的時候到今年現在也要審預算了你把我們當成什麼我們的監督是什麼然後申辦就一直在打我們的臉審議委員會九位成員裡面市府兩位然後由大學來推薦五位教授"},{"start":7311.956,"end":7330.14,"text":"誰能夠去把握說這個推薦到底是什麼處理我叫你們要把所有的制度弄出來也沒有從去年到現在都沒有都沒有然後申辦一直在做這個某人小金庫的處理我告訴你我告訴你他把地方當什麼他把地方當什麼"},{"start":7339.042,"end":7341.223,"text":"你又叫我怎麼通過你們的預算"},{"start":7368.993,"end":7378.021,"text":"我怎麼通過你們的預算我怎麼通過你們的預算沒有啊你的說明會根本就是敷衍的你就是敷衍的你完全就是敷衍的你知道你們當時候的說明會我馬上就打給你的嘛"},{"start":7386.571,"end":7388.332,"text":"一年前跟一年後所有的問題都一樣沒有改變"},{"start":7416.525,"end":7417.105,"text":"在賴思寶委員質詢完畢 我們休息 現在請鄭天才委員質詢"},{"start":7453.114,"end":7477.258,"text":"國有委員有請部長請郭部長也請水利署委員長首先要謝謝經濟部還有水利署在0918地震的時候經過本席的質詢也提報行政院"},{"start":7480.896,"end":7481.536,"text":"發言委員及事務部長"},{"start":7509.898,"end":7528.864,"text":"相關的這些新的就是114年度開始的五自來水第7供水計畫第5期也謝謝經濟部水利署提報這個新的第5期的計畫總共供建設經費96.5億然後自來水公司事業預算6.5億花東基金有3億總共106億"},{"start":7538.553,"end":7540.618,"text":"現在特別邀請經濟部水利署針對明年開始的第5期"},{"start":7549.766,"end":7574.824,"text":"這個花東基金的部分是作為那個增加那個差額的部分所以不能去減少原來的比例這整個五次海水第7供水計畫的在花蓮台東的原來的那個比例不能減少不能去說因為有了花東基金就減少那邊那署長可以嗎"},{"start":7577.813,"end":7593.592,"text":"好謝謝委員指導我們會以委員指導的方向來推動未來無自來水地區的工作的改善那事實上在這一次行政院新通過的自來水地區供水改善計畫第5期裡面特別對原住民地區"},{"start":7594.733,"end":7614.687,"text":"包括如何去提升改善的部分本來每戶的這個成本那也獲得行政院的核定會大幅的這個提高每戶的成本合列的這個比例我知道這個有增加這個每戶的成本好那個講到這個部分一算書"},{"start":7616.437,"end":7643.232,"text":"預算書還是要實際上在執行的時候水利署在執行的時候是用原住民族部落是用原住民族部落所以還是要用預算書還是要把它寫清楚這個像我們114年度的預算書是寫原住民族地基還是要把它改成原住民族部落這沒有問題吧因為你們執行就是這樣執行的嘛"},{"start":7644.043,"end":7655.98,"text":"跟委員說明無自來水地區供水改善計畫到最新的第5期我們一直是使用包括全國的無自來水地區的這個名稱"},{"start":7657.349,"end":7679.55,"text":"那特別在原住民地區因為他有一些的部落或是有一些的民眾他居住的地方他不一定是屬於說是聚合型的所以我們在我們的預算案裡面包括我們的計畫書裡面都用原住民地區的這個名稱來呈現這是第一個那第二個部分的話其實在大法官也有解釋"},{"start":7681.011,"end":7706.528,"text":"相關的這個預算案跟法律案畢竟是不同那因為我們過去所提的預算書全部都是用包括原住民地區的這個名稱那也依此沿用到第5期這個部分跟委員做一個說明這個因為正好是第5期新的一期新的一期而且我在部長也知道我也諮詢過行政院院長我也諮詢過行政院院長"},{"start":7710.221,"end":7720.148,"text":"實際上你們在執行的是適用部落,所以這個部落沒有問題,應該要改。我們會持續改善原住民地區的...這樣我們預算審查的時候再討論。我們希望說一直來提高原來沒有自來水,然後現在可以用自來水或是簡易自來水的使用。"},{"start":7733.578,"end":7758.179,"text":"包括這個中央管流域整體及改善與調適計劃這個部分也是一樣這個也應該把這個原住民族地區改為原住民族部落這個部分預算審查的時候我們再好好討論所以這個部分那另外這個我先請那個水利署這4年來"},{"start":7762.762,"end":7786.927,"text":"這過去的4年在花蓮 花蓮縣就對那個像烈士堤防這樣的工程到底你們做了哪些提供給我素面資料好沒有問題好那另外這個常常發生的這個台11縣的花蓮大橋花蓮大橋然後往業美部落的193縣"},{"start":7788.626,"end":7788.967,"text":"193縣每一次颱風就會攤方"},{"start":7793.509,"end":7820.857,"text":"攤房有兩個狀況一個是從山上攤下來另外一個狀況就是從193線馬路攤到這個河流攤到這個河流 花蓮溪所以這個部分呢這個地方政府一切的反應這個不能只有災害的時候然後去拿災害準備金然後縣政府去做這個道路的一個復建"},{"start":7823.854,"end":7850.08,"text":"沿途有兩個地方一個不是你們的山上另外一個沿途有關係的就是河流河流花蓮溪的部分所以這個部分你們再去實際的跟縣政府瞭解應該怎麼去改善好不好 署長這個我們在未來進行的這個河道的輸進包括治理工程的部分我們會透過跨機關來協力"},{"start":7853.476,"end":7858.641,"text":"好接下來這個114年度這跟隨意數沒有關係了這個科技專案的經費這個114年度234億7950萬2000元比這個113年度217億4800"},{"start":7878.422,"end":7878.942,"text":"以根據對比112年度結算162億6985萬元來對比的話"},{"start":7902.43,"end":7921.179,"text":"那等於是114年度又比這個增加的實力率更多了更多所以這個執行過去的執行的一個狀況到底到底成效然後因為你們那個編類幾乎都是對國內團體之監助這個額度整個科技狀況裡面的200多億裡面"},{"start":7932.029,"end":7934.791,"text":"這個234億里面對國內團體之建築就高達222億5519萬這個額度是相當的高這個當然部長剛來我們利用這個機會也請這個產業發展師"},{"start":7960.252,"end":7983.804,"text":"那個是技術師技術師你是技術師但是預算邊內是在另外一個師啊是不是預算書啊還是預算書寫錯科技科技預算大部分都是邊在產業技術師好好好沒有錯吧產業產業產業產業技術師沒有錯我看到預算書沒有錯啊好所以這個部分呢是不是"},{"start":7985.642,"end":8012.886,"text":"這4年來的執行的一個情形也提供素面資料給我好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝鄭天才委員 我們接下來請一下呂玉玲委員謝謝主席部長要不要先喝口水好 請郭部長"},{"start":8015.933,"end":8019.457,"text":"臺灣的中小企業的彈性跟創新的能量是維繫我國經濟發展跟社會安定非常重要的。"},{"start":8033.755,"end":8060.629,"text":"那尤其很多的中小企業也引領著產業的隱形冠軍所以我們在2023年的中小企業的白皮書裡面都有來提到尤其是全體企業的中小企業部分占了98%如果我們的政府還是把眼光放在來扶植核心的產業長期忽視了中小企業的發展這對整個就業市場會造成很不健康的這個影響部長你認同嗎"},{"start":8063.033,"end":8077.008,"text":"我認同委員這樣的推詢那尤其現在很多企業在數位的轉型上有碰到這個六大的瓶頸的困難的問題那部長你在這邊你了解這個六大問題之後你要怎麼樣去解決這些問題呢"},{"start":8078.029,"end":8078.469,"text":"我們會透過兩個方法 第一個就是幫助這些產業先數位化"},{"start":8096.276,"end":8096.496,"text":"全體委員會議"},{"start":8111.164,"end":8137.533,"text":"那麼他可以提供比較好的資訊這個提供比較好的資訊會讓業者他比較容易做對的決策那我們幫助這些中小企業第一個就是讓他高質化選做對的事情然後第二個我們幫他降低成本然後讓他把事情做對這個大概是我們現在中小企業署創新署在努力的這個部分"},{"start":8139.975,"end":8159.494,"text":"太多了所以我就針對製造業來跟部長提醒尤其在製造業來講的話目前有57%的業者他們是第一階段只有數位化那第二階段是數位優化有5.2%那第三階段的話是數位的轉型有30.8%"},{"start":8162.176,"end":8190.515,"text":"有一部分7%的完全沒有數位化那你知道這個原因在哪裡嗎像成本問題不願意投資還是看不到它的成效原因就是非常的多啦每一個每一個產業因為這產業有的規模太小有的它資金太少有的它不願意跟產業鏈配合我想我們會針對這一些盤點出來的問題然後下去把它集中以後下去解決"},{"start":8191.996,"end":8216.145,"text":"經濟部已經把抓出這個六大問題了那尤其是製造業是很重要的中小企業我們希望部長在這邊瞭解問題去對他們各別的不同的各產業他們的不同跟他們的落差你知道相應應的一個對策要做出來是我們會從供應鏈的這樣的一個垂直的關係然後來輔導這一些比較弱的這些廠商"},{"start":8217.005,"end":8244.053,"text":"臺灣﹚"},{"start":8244.153,"end":8251.059,"text":"是以晶圓的代工跟這個封測的測試部分是世界第一但是我們在IC的設計裡面我們占全球來講是21.3%僅次於美國那尤其是我們在這個整個計畫裡面我們看到2023年的話我們有成長到24年的話有成長到20.6%那請問"},{"start":8267.853,"end":8268.013,"text":"財政部長"},{"start":8284.298,"end":8303.813,"text":"報告委員 我們有推動金創計畫那我們要來推動國內IC設計去導入先進或國際高度信任的優勢特殊晶片我們預估IC設計產業採用先進製程的晶片的比率會從112年的39%提升到113年的43%113年43% 現在不是20年2028年能夠提升到多少"},{"start":8314.344,"end":8340.139,"text":"我們期待能夠到50%提升到50%因為我們跟美國的差距是多少你知道嗎我們現在是20%那美國將近有60%3倍差了3倍你現在提高了50%我也樂觀其成那就加油啦好不好那因為現在人才在這資訊方面的人才是有斷層的人才不足而且在整個產業上也有缺工的情形部長都知道吧"},{"start":8340.979,"end":8353.865,"text":"但是現在我們看到很多的資訊在資訊通訊科技學門裡面畢業沒有投入在這個就業的方面非常的多在2019年裡面19.63%到現在2023年到36.58%部長知道什麼原因嗎為什麼畢業沒有投入這個職場也許不願意到工廠去工作"},{"start":8365.672,"end":8387.437,"text":"所以這個就是很多的因素啦也許可能就是有當兵的問題各方面但是我們希望說能夠在缺工那個人才我們怎麼樣去培訓人才怎麼樣去徵才這是很重要的這部長在這方面的因應也要找出一個對策好不好那尤其是在國外的留學生裡面將近有2萬人在台灣也是讀這個資訊通訊這個科系的但是留到台灣的話也不到一半"},{"start":8394.178,"end":8400.7,"text":"這部分我們之前在院會裡面有討論過那我們會希望過去這個兩萬多人的這個僑外生將來可以有百分之七十八十留在台灣透過一些這個方法我們現在勞動部就是有在設計這樣子讓他們留下來的這個方案"},{"start":8424.636,"end":8432.606,"text":"國發會、國發會跟勞動部他們在討論你們的目標呢?我們的目標,我們自己這個...他們這樣不讀下來的原因有知道嗎?"},{"start":8433.78,"end":8433.88,"text":"經濟部自己本身"},{"start":8460.131,"end":8464.483,"text":"正跟教育部在協商我們經濟部會每一年訓練25000位"},{"start":8468.036,"end":8493.548,"text":"橋外生跟本土的這個學生專業的就是比較科技業的你們訓練好能夠就業嗎?就業,二加四計畫就在執行這件事情也就是說兩年他來讀書由國家提供這個學費跟雜費那經濟部提供生活費所以他們畢業就一定要投入一定要在這個工作在工作不然的話他就要這個就是要還那個錢"},{"start":8494.728,"end":8495.228,"text":"謝林委員謝部長"},{"start":8531.327,"end":8555.328,"text":"請內事保委員質詢。謝謝主席以及各位先進有請經濟部的郭部長請郭部長"},{"start":8562.694,"end":8574.503,"text":"委員好部長你好你對於你來這個立法你來公佈已經一段時間了啦你原來是大老闆出身的你對立法院的態度怎麼樣我不知道不太明白委員的垂詢是什麼意思我的意思是說立法院的決議你會不要遵守因為我們代表人民"},{"start":8592.779,"end":8609.744,"text":"立法院的決議你要不要遵守立法院的決議我要不要遵守對就法令規定我要遵守我就會遵守法令規定當然要遵守啊怎麼不要遵守不然我們做一大堆決議做假的啊那我現在告訴你一件事情"},{"start":8611.826,"end":8622.899,"text":"立法院在4月30號通過一個要求章兵工業區停建金鼎焚化爐的決議案這個你知道吧我知道結果你們在10月"},{"start":8636.926,"end":8642.391,"text":"你們在10月25號居然發文給那些廠商說了簡單來講就是你們不甩這個決議你們要廠商提出一個"},{"start":8652.827,"end":8675.005,"text":"要繼續幹然後呢 文送彰化縣政府文送環境部也就是說你們卸責因為立法院這裡你們不願意跟立法院對撞你們就說可以繼續走我們已經 散途通過喔立法院主決議在院會散途通過我相信那天你可能也在"},{"start":8676.155,"end":8686.188,"text":"通過了結果你們居然發文你們的產發局的科學園區管理局發文給廠商這百萬文章我這五文都在這裡"},{"start":8692.89,"end":8693.89,"text":"新建文化爐申請適用特種建築作業要點"},{"start":8718.875,"end":8722.336,"text":"你們甩給黃金部 甩給黃金部不接 說你的事丟臉丟死了部長 這個你可能都不知道你們慘罰 慘罰署長 這個慘罰署長啊這個要換人了 慘罰署長要不要講一講 你怎麼發這個文你怎麼發這個文 這個文就擺明了跟立法院的決議對幹了"},{"start":8741.867,"end":8747.954,"text":"現在立法院跟行政委員關係已經夠緊張了結果你經濟部帶頭起來我們10月30號做了一個決議這個是聯合報昨天出來的很大篇的消息而且把彰化都弄出來了我們再看第二頁彰化已經久坐的浮化爐"},{"start":8762.55,"end":8777.077,"text":"林佳龍承諾不會再興建鄭文燦也承諾不會再興建那時候的林佳龍是總統文秘書長那時候的鄭文燦是行政院的副院長兩大長官都承諾在彰化不要再蓋文化爐結果你們在會議的第1頁"},{"start":8782.879,"end":8793.67,"text":"結果你們的一個文出來了這是經濟部產業發展署然後科學園區管理局所發出來的"},{"start":8795.983,"end":8805.871,"text":"你看 這裡面喔 底下喔並未載明有本局審查 顯然解讀有異簡單來講就是 立法院的決議啊 像pass air一樣沒個慘很可惡啊 這個部長你才知道這個文你知道嗎我請他跟你報告一下我先請教你 這個文你知不知道文我不知道是嘛 你可能被底下人給你闖空你闖 不會啦 不會這樣子我請他跟你報告一下這個署長 你這是怎麼樣 你是拿人家好處是不是"},{"start":8825.166,"end":8830.309,"text":"應該給他蓋還怎麼樣來來書長講不是委員你可能誤會我請他直接給你報告好來來來講講你講向委員報告第一個是他來申請特種建築物的部分是那特種建築物的部分審查不在我們局裡面所以我們才會行務我們立法院已經要求你會停了你還在審查什麼因為立法院已經決議停了四月就決議了十月份你還要給他"},{"start":8851.001,"end":8863.31,"text":"那第二個委員有提到的就是說立法院決議的部分我們也是朝著解約解約你就是停你們該講的是根據壞人給立法院做根據立法院的決議你們已經停了沒有這個東西而且合約也到齊對不對沒有跟委員報告還沒有到齊了人家另外一個以前的委員陳嘉華都說合約已經到齊了"},{"start":8879.701,"end":8881.146,"text":"合約要到明年才會到期明年才會到期"},{"start":8886.601,"end":8887.261,"text":"報告委員 這個委員的話 經濟部要賠償這個錢了"},{"start":8918.102,"end":8936.848,"text":"賠償政協你推給立法院賠償什麼錢推給立法院是謝謝委員知道不是如果我們做了你們不執行那立法院幹什麼立法院可以關掉了立法院可以關掉了你這個引起憲政上的危機喔你等於替卓榮泰又來一個"},{"start":8938.354,"end":8938.894,"text":"我們還是要一一來處理"},{"start":8965.848,"end":8979.498,"text":"依照合約處理我們會依照立法院的決議然後依照合約的程序來處理合約比較重要還是立法院決議比較重要決議我們就是遵照立法院的決議然後再來處理合約的部分"},{"start":8992.606,"end":9007.735,"text":"荷葉怎麼處理你問我你告訴我沛長荷葉他有一個處理的程序啦你告訴我啊現在我們還在走這個程序但是我們就是遵照立法院的決議我現在拿到的文這是聯合報那邊給我的"},{"start":9009.895,"end":9037.09,"text":"他是說你們就是叫他要蓋然後向中央政府申請向這個環境部申請結果都被罷回去了報告委員我想齁很多的事情是不是我們直接跟你報告因為透過媒體也許這裡面有私生的部分啦一個禮拜你來給我報告好不好我會跟你報告第二件等一下等一下讓我把這個問題講完喔剛才我在財務會那邊審查你的追加1000億台電的預算不長啊"},{"start":9040.29,"end":9047.369,"text":"我原來阿老實講我是中間偏支持阿可是上一次問你那句話我就不支持了"},{"start":9047.998,"end":9075.777,"text":"你居然跟我說 我問你說 如果一千億沒有給你呢 增資 你說就舉債 喔 多大聲的舉債 你家很有錢的舉債就好結果我還要查了一下 你們的台電的負債1.6兆喔 這個要付利息的喔另外 利息不算的2.5兆 總共4點多兆的負債資本額五千多億 累計虧損四千多億 每年獲得利息是兩百多億"},{"start":9076.698,"end":9095.278,"text":"你再借一千億,我問過財政部,你們借一千億,董事長可以講一千億利息多少?你告訴我,利息多少?你知道嗎?補償你知不知道?一千億的利息多少?看我的利率多少?台電嘛台電也可以從利率上面去寫幾%?你跟我講幾%?幾%?差不多二三十億塊"},{"start":9100.724,"end":9119.304,"text":"財政部長跟我講啦 平均1.5% 你們大概1.4% 所以只有14億你想喔 大家各位 各位偉大的台灣人民聽喔財政 台電要1000億 私塾無名 他沒有窮盡一切茫茫之力"},{"start":9120.385,"end":9143.275,"text":"怎樣cost down比如說用核電然後呢他就跟我們要1000億結果部長以前講的上個禮拜講的我去借啊他歷史只要10億17億14億那你就去借啊所以我原來傾向於支持你們的現在可憐人暗看我反對這一項政治案謝謝"},{"start":9153.004,"end":9153.504,"text":"休息5分鐘"},{"start":9182.921,"end":9183.481,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9210.079,"end":9212.402,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟部及所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":9226.902,"end":9227.183,"text":"發言委員．．．"},{"start":9255.263,"end":9255.663,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9279.16,"end":9279.42,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9308.679,"end":9309.78,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":9334.622,"end":9351.986,"text":"最弱的是這個像我今天穿的那個當時環評層裡面有這一項其他的他都因為我其他想說那個都是當時預估的真正就是這一項我就是那時候寫的"},{"start":9355.467,"end":9357.248,"text":"財委會不知道那邊狀況怎麼樣?財委是主席"},{"start":9384.023,"end":9384.544,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9398.205,"end":9398.905,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期"},{"start":9417.791,"end":9424.053,"text":"去年的部分已經相略一致。關於經濟部及所屬單位預算部分。關於經濟部及所屬單位預算部分。關於經濟部及所屬單位預算部分。"},{"start":9448.243,"end":9450.004,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟部及所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":9464.735,"end":9465.095,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9498.166,"end":9499.747,"text":"陳培宇 邱志偉 昭偉"},{"start":9532.862,"end":9550.234,"text":"主席 經濟部 郭部長請郭部長委員好部長部長早那個油電糖水總經理都在都在齁中央也在嗎"},{"start":9551.673,"end":9555.838,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於經濟部及所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":9571.036,"end":9600.316,"text":"專業也夠,服務熱忱也夠,頂到同意也都不錯,特別台電的王總經理,台水的李董事長跟李總經理都非常傑出跟優秀。台糖陳立仁總經理在地方服務大家都非常肯定,他的能力,他各方面的操守我覺得都是非常經得起考驗。我是希望這樣,國營事業的人士盡量以內生為主,"},{"start":9601.937,"end":9628.596,"text":"內生為主現在油煉糖基本上都是內生所以這個中油這個也是內生董事長總經理都是內生都是在中油基層開始這個服務起的這個資深的這個員工那這個台電那個王總經理也是從基層上來台水總經理董事長也是如此那台糖"},{"start":9629.878,"end":9630.058,"text":"董事長"},{"start":9651.631,"end":9673.626,"text":"內部升遷對員工的士氣是有鼓舞作用有激勵作用而且內部的管理他這個文化他最了解專業度也夠我希望這個原則應該要把持住了這個董總要有專業性專業一定要是從內部內生會比較準確的"},{"start":9677.49,"end":9700.484,"text":"幾個問題請教就是淘寶的問題淘寶它的業務核准是商業司嗎?是商業司嗎?是書士長淘寶這個它有經營許可可以做電商的平台嗎?電商它不是它是一般都跟委員報告電商那個它"},{"start":9701.468,"end":9729.768,"text":"主管是在那個數位發展部那淘寶他沒有在臺灣落地所以他還是那個大陸的那個公司他那個整個那個母公司其實沒有在臺灣落地他沒有在臺灣設立分公司嗎他那個有一個分公司他其實他的業務是我們核准他的是做那個電子資訊供應服務跟廣告跟廣告可是他有沒有從事這個產品上架沒有我們沒有核准他經營電商目前有沒有"},{"start":9730.831,"end":9745.696,"text":"他有沒有從事這些商業行為我們現在已經有在啟動那個經濟部這邊有啟動行政調查對 這個很多人檢舉阿你沒有核准他可以做這個電商平台可是實際上他有從事這些商業行為所以商業司應該去徹查"},{"start":9749.196,"end":9769.28,"text":"跟委員報告這個部分有因為他在臺灣這邊的分公司我們河豚他其實沒有報告電商他實際上在經營電商可能還是在大陸那邊的是阿那你這是在臺灣的分公司你事實上有沒有從事這個電商平台的這個商業行為這個你們可以去瞭解一下我們會啟動調查是好那水利署賴署長這不然你們可能不太了解齁再生水廠齁那個署長再生水廠這是我爭取的齁"},{"start":9778.422,"end":9784.824,"text":"目前我們在做先期的一些評估作業我們預計差不多明年左右我們希望可以進入到完成宿件進入到環評的程序"},{"start":9806.752,"end":9819.042,"text":"那到這個建廠完成可以供水大概期程大概什麼時候?因為它大概4到5年就可以完成,就是環評通過的話或計畫或預算規模呢?也差不多是120億到150億之普120億啊?上次不是說50億現在變120億?120億啊?因為我們現在希望說"},{"start":9831.949,"end":9834.173,"text":"未來供水是供應給財業用水還是民生用水?"},{"start":9846.851,"end":9874.647,"text":"基本上我們會以區域的用水為滿足之後,然後當然海淡水廠的這個用水可能我們可以透過也許是交換水的這個方式啊。 那可以飲用啊,那個我有喝過。 那個水質很好啊,因為我都符合國際標準。 所以它主要是產業用水還是民生用水?基本上我們會先提供周邊的這個民眾的這個用水,那其他的這些的水源我們還可以來提供產業的需求。"},{"start":9875.794,"end":9891.858,"text":"好 謝謝署長 那再請教一下部長齁 這個我還是覺得對中油比較這個 比較好像虧待啦 用增資的問題啊你看那個財務狀況你看 這個一樣 這個中油的財務狀況很嚴峻 負債比跟台電是一樣的"},{"start":9898.001,"end":9908.692,"text":"那他每年提政治計畫都沒有經過部裡面同意我是覺得這部分應該要給中郵一些這個計畫讓他們可以這個針對他們財務結構能夠調整 不然你看完"},{"start":9915.41,"end":9926.556,"text":"我們這部分都會有在實施啦,都有在進行,沒有結果啊。 當年保育經濟部都駁回啊,都沒准啊。"},{"start":9934.64,"end":9961.29,"text":"呃有有因為114年題嘛已經快結束了所以我們現在就是想說再編115啦但這種內部的程序115年的預算那所內部程序先經董事會通過之後才能送到大部那邊去計劃是多少嘛你們計劃是多少我要跟幫你跟這個部長爭取啊就是4年3500億嘛齁你們重新起了齁我可以跟總統建議啊"},{"start":9962.07,"end":9964.011,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於經濟部及所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":9986.237,"end":9988.199,"text":"川普上台之後關稅對中國加10% 科振關稅的理由是完全他個人意志"},{"start":10010.683,"end":10015.527,"text":"臺灣過去商業機密常常會 您在半導體也帶過 您是公司的領導人 商業間諜在以前會把這些商業機密到中國那邊去 會不會因為這樣子 成為一個理由或者破口讓中國"},{"start":10037.028,"end":10038.749,"text":"那你為什麼認為第二任不會呢?"},{"start":10068.442,"end":10069.683,"text":"這個部長可能比較清楚"},{"start":10092.696,"end":10113.632,"text":"若這種情況一再發生,我們的高科技被商業間諜轉到中國去,美國當然會感冒。現在我們都配合美國的安全管制,但是很多公司他不守法,現在沒有那麼簡單可以出去,出國管制是我們目前"},{"start":10114.622,"end":10139.477,"text":"一直到他真正上任 中國中手不用其極喔 他威脅利誘在台灣的高科技公司啊 會偷他們的資助 報告委員我想美國他比較concern的是那個先進製程 那我相信所有先進製程 人都被控制了 現在我們所有先進製程的人員都被美國控制 那你針對先進製程 成熟製程不管制"},{"start":10140.217,"end":10140.417,"text":"請謝一鳳委員質詢"},{"start":10172.635,"end":10197.097,"text":"謝謝主席。我想要請部長跟台電的總經理。請郭部長、王總經理。部長,我看到你昨天在工商協經會的早餐會裡面,你有說到2033年我們要增加"},{"start":10200.385,"end":10218.475,"text":"1786萬千瓦的電,所以不會缺電,也不會缺綠電,是不是?我好像沒有機會講這一段話你沒有講啊?這不是你講的是不是?應該不是我講的是喔?所以你沒有講這個話?所以會缺電?不是啊"},{"start":10222.485,"end":10246.891,"text":"那個訊息可能是他們問的,然後這個我們統一回答的不是問你是不是?所以會缺電是不是?2033年2033年如果什麼都不改變的話當然以那個市場需求用現在的供電量當然就是會缺啊會缺電是不是?如果我們不增加電廠的話它就會缺電"},{"start":10248.024,"end":10269.381,"text":"所以我們現在目前呢目前天然氣我講過了到2030年我完全都不缺電完全不缺電包括綠電都不缺都不缺嘛是不是那什麼情況下會缺電你說不改變的情況下不讓我增加電廠哪一個電廠不增加各個電廠有哪一個電廠我們在這個6年內"},{"start":10276.058,"end":10297.188,"text":"最重要最重要的是北部的協和電廠協和電廠是不是如果協和電廠沒有辦法的話就會缺電但是我還是要去解決這個問題可是你們在昨天的那個會裡面提到的就是新核能的部分核能新核能跟核能有什麼差別"},{"start":10299.614,"end":10321.697,"text":"新核能可能是在談那個核融合的部分核融合的這個發電模式它不會產生核廢料舊的會產生核廢料那我們如果舊的要用就是這個核廢料可以完全處理第二個安全無力第三個全民共識"},{"start":10322.659,"end":10342.349,"text":"那所以不管是如何嘛即便是核廢料現在也是儲存了等未來有一天就是世界的技術有辦法改變的時候我們就會處理那些核廢料嘛所以不管是核能新核能都是安全無虞可以使用的是不是"},{"start":10347.882,"end":10348.302,"text":"會不會考慮在"},{"start":10377.208,"end":10397.535,"text":"其他地方 其他地方買核電這個就是他的成本只要符合我們的要求然後也是在輸送電上面沒有問題這個是我們考慮滿足國內電力需求的一個方法也是有可能的吧是不是方法上面是可以來檢討的"},{"start":10398.973,"end":10417.87,"text":"好 我還要請問喔 就是你也 所以昨天那篇報導裡面都不是你講的 是不是昨天那個 就是現在工商時報那篇報導裡面都不是你講的我沒有看到那個報導都不是你講的如果他講是我講的 可能就是這個人是我講的"},{"start":10418.556,"end":10434.641,"text":"是你講的報紙應該不會亂寫吧我們相信台灣的媒體應該都是公允公正的不會空穴來風只是有時候可能會稍微再加一點他的看法"},{"start":10436.602,"end":10462.428,"text":"根據這個如果不缺綠電的情況下我們知道現在目前綠電都被就是高科技產業大企業都包走了是不是那在這個情況下中小企業呢沒有問題我們現在有一個新的綠電平台完全來照顧中小企業中小企業對於中小企業有沒有就是給予更好的照顧"},{"start":10463.726,"end":10480.695,"text":"除了綠電平台以外當然當然我們希望如此是不是希望能夠讓他們買到充足的綠電是不是我們讓他買到充足的綠電以外讓他買的到這個是一個關鍵第二個買到他想要的量也是一個關鍵還有價格對還有他的價格具有競爭力"},{"start":10484.963,"end":10504.314,"text":"那是不是也可以爭取讓碳費來補助中小企業因為你現在要求中小企業他們要做ASCO是用自己的那個電嘛可是未來如果他們節能提供更高的誘因讓他們能夠去換節能的商品啊 對不對"},{"start":10505.775,"end":10520.435,"text":"謝謝委員這麼好的意見這個我們回去馬上檢討讓他們換低碳的設備不然為什麼他們要改變設備沒有充分的誘因的情況下他們就不會再來最後一個提到就是川普他說對中國"},{"start":10522.711,"end":10525.193,"text":"要提高10%的關稅,是不是?"},{"start":10525.193,"end":10549.647,"text":"是。好像比選前降低了,這是不是風向?也不是這樣子啦,我們在看他應該是根據他的需求,不一樣的產品,他應該是分類給不同的這個稅金。所以他未來會統一10%?應該...我的...他對美墨、對墨西哥還有對加拿大,他是增加25%欸?"},{"start":10550.888,"end":10570.476,"text":"因為這個稅我想都是對他來講是一種措施在調整他國內的競爭力所以他可能一旦形成有競爭力以後他還是會開放因為這個稅太高會影響他的通膨所以我才請教你是不是放風一下"},{"start":10572.714,"end":10586.91,"text":"是不是放風向阿?現在是10%,未來呢?應該不是換換,因為有時候選舉講的話跟實際在做的時候大概才會去調整這個他一定要soft landing,這種事情"},{"start":10588.211,"end":10610.94,"text":"下60%的這個決定比較容易但是做起來有困難所以有可能就是10%是全面性的不同的產品不同的產品會有不同的類別那對於臺灣在大陸就是說臺商在大陸的企業會有什麼樣影響?你們有評估嗎?我們有評估那影響大嗎?有各種不同的scenario"},{"start":10611.479,"end":10639.911,"text":"那影響大嗎?它的各家什麼部份影響最大?可能對中國它的加稅的品項,什麼東西對台灣的支援?應該是車啦,太陽能啦,還有這個LED啦,他自己有優勢產業的他或者是他大力在補助的這些產業當然就是會有一些影響,因為我想美國就是怕他用不公平的競爭嘛"},{"start":10641.485,"end":10651.378,"text":"所以會建構那個防禦的堡壘一定建構在美國可能需求不高或者需求很高的這種特殊的產業"},{"start":10652.486,"end":10681.052,"text":"那對於墨西哥、加拿大呢?那裡也有台商?墨西哥他就是在懲罰中國的廠商啊對,那裡也有台商啊?會不會影響到?我們台商,我跟委員報告,我所了解的我們台商應該是在德州附近,或者是墨西哥州的那個部分所以他有重疊的,隔了一條街過去就是美國所以基本上我所了解的是這樣所以台商很厲害,台商他一定會調整的"},{"start":10683.254,"end":10710.851,"text":"現在25%的照顧 照顧並是美國的當然我們一定有各種不同的 scenario 在裡面當然有可能就是說你注意到的是在德州或者是新墨西哥州當然在那個墨西哥還是有我們的台商還是我們的橋頂那所以對於他們的協助應該要增加然後也不要讓他們受到這一波關稅的影響好不好"},{"start":10711.271,"end":10711.931,"text":"有請我們的那個"},{"start":10737.764,"end":10738.305,"text":"國資會部長、標準局的陳怡伶局長"},{"start":10747.478,"end":10775.672,"text":"委員好部長午安我過去事實上是在民間一直在監督兒童安全這一塊也一直致力於我們下降兒少的死亡率所以對嬰兒比較貼身或者是長期會使用的衣物大概也都會提出建議過去的確我們的標準局非常認真地是在我們提出來之後馬上去做回應不過我要提醒的是"},{"start":10777.308,"end":10802.719,"text":"現在不是只有在實體店面現在很多時候我們國人的購物的習慣已經是在我們的電商平台上來做網購那有嬰兒的家長為了照顧孩子大概比較傾向在這種線上那所以想問經濟部當消費者在電商平台上購買嬰兒用品的時候尤其是跨境的電商那所"},{"start":10803.939,"end":10806.742,"text":"購買的東西也都是經過檢驗合格的嗎?"},{"start":10806.742,"end":10830.342,"text":"核准銷售的商品嗎?謝謝委員垂行 這部分我是不是請我們標準級來跟你報告?謝謝委員垂行 那個我們以商品檢驗法來看的話我們管理的範圍是我們的義務人 就是我們的進口商跟那個製造商所以委員垂行的那個電商的部分 如果他是跨境的話"},{"start":10830.842,"end":10856.67,"text":"我們沒有辦法用商品標示法來處理它那家長知道嗎?你這些東西都是沒有經過安全檢驗的嗎?我們有英式檢驗商品的話它只要在臺灣落地它只要在這邊販售我相信很多人都也不太知道說原來你們列標準結果不是英式檢驗項目的話還真的沒有在檢驗英式檢驗商品是它不是用商品標示法它是用商品標示法但非英式檢驗商品的法定的話它是用消保法在處理"},{"start":10857.51,"end":10882.123,"text":"我們再來看目前根據韓聯社報導南韓首爾市政府從4月初到5月底針對一些跨境電商平台銷售的產品都多次檢驗有93種產品當中大約40種商品都含有毒物質尤其是受檢的4款兒童中的有一款的甲醛"},{"start":10882.563,"end":10908.389,"text":"海超高量超標1.2倍那我自己就請辦公室去以圖收圖的方式就看到目前這些東西都在臺灣的電商平臺上流通也就是臺灣的家長有很高的機率有接觸到孩子們就會有機會去接觸到這有致癌風險的一些商品所以想問一下我不知道說到底經濟部有沒有去掌握到這些像南韓這次"},{"start":10909.369,"end":10909.409,"text":"請問經濟部怎麼規範?"},{"start":10925.989,"end":10941.963,"text":"報告委員,我想跨境電商這種新的商業模式,確實造成你所指責的部分。我們會來重視這樣的一個命題,因為目前我們經濟部所管轄的部分沒有辦法,"},{"start":10943.804,"end":10972.017,"text":"對這些廠商來做要求但是我們可以結合速發部結合衛福部我們討論一個如何來解決這個問題謝謝部長這樣的回覆我真的很高興能夠聽到這樣為什麼因為我覺得今天孩子已經生得很少的時候每個孩子要保護好但是我也要擔心的是說因為這是標準檢驗局那所列的隱私檢項目商品那我們前面所提的不合格的商品"},{"start":10972.617,"end":10998.17,"text":"不在這名單當中那當然剛剛也部長也承諾我覺得很好可是我們也擔心的是目前標準局的方法是什麼採單項式的更新清單然後逐一增加檢驗商品所以過去是我在民間團體有提才有變成應試檢驗項目沒提就沒有的話所以我不知道說經濟部未來是不是有考慮整體性的原則完善的規劃來確保我們的母嬰兒童產品的檢驗不漏節"},{"start":11001.291,"end":11025.291,"text":"我不知道法律上允許不允許以我過去在民間的方法我建議允許我們推薦推薦品牌推薦品牌推薦給這些需要的這些媽媽我們告訴她哪一些東西是好的我們把這個良善的商品推薦給她們而不在這個推薦裡面就建議她們不要買"},{"start":11026.553,"end":11053.179,"text":"所以最後還是請求我們的經濟部要做到這個三點也就是如果針對有安全餘力的應該要馬上下架像我剛剛已經告訴你們這個網路平台上我們的這個有在進行那第二個就是產品要合格的話電商要去做規範那剛剛部長也承諾最後大家期待要有個檢舉的管道並且標示於電商平台我們現在有檢舉管道好謝謝部長謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":11060.343,"end":11088.052,"text":"請蔡易委員質詢好謝謝主席那我們是不是有請部長請郭部長那以及商業發展署署長產業發展署現在是署長還有中小及企業新創企業署"},{"start":11089.608,"end":11102.018,"text":"秦營組長委員部長好部長那我今天在要質詢那我同時也希望這三個單位這個我們經濟部所轄這三個署"},{"start":11107.006,"end":11121.38,"text":"因為我一直在疑惑我們經濟部這樣做不同的數但是就人民來說他們一旦遇到需要經濟部要做一些對接的時候會殺嗎?"},{"start":11125.553,"end":11149.285,"text":"到底哪一些屬於商業發展哪一些屬於產業發展又哪一些屬於中小級新創企業我就比一個例子如果今天是包裝機的協會或者是工具機的協會他們要邀請國際的廠商都來台灣然後來舉辦在我們的世貿來舉辦策展"},{"start":11154.367,"end":11174.756,"text":"那我們當然是希望經濟部來協助他們包括說場地啦包括很多事情都需要經濟部協助那這樣的一個包裝機的一個協會他是要找中小企業署還是要找產業發展署還是商業發展署應該是貿易署應該要貿易署因為他是國際貿易那就是貿易署所以這樣起來不是很難嗎"},{"start":11181.038,"end":11198.544,"text":"我如果是說一個產業來講我想就是到我們的這個產業發展署那如果是它的形態它是屬於中小企業也可以透過中小企業發展署那如果是外國的廠商我們建議就走國貿署這樣"},{"start":11199.981,"end":11202.784,"text":"經濟部確實非常大,這裡面重疊的部分也有,但是我們會透過次長在協調這些事務。"},{"start":11218.055,"end":11238.417,"text":"非常多複雜那那從山上到海邊都是經濟管的當然是很很大嗎那我現在是站在說好真正中小企業遇到協助的時候那我我再問一個例子嗎好像最在幾個月前有推出的深層的節能的一個計劃是那要推動了因為要因為要這個進行碳排要"},{"start":11240.499,"end":11240.679,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":11258.551,"end":11282.648,"text":"能源署當然是負責整個EXCO方案那要執行落實我們就是分開了如果是製造業我們再到產發署去如果是服務業的話我們再到上發署去不一樣的對象但是我們的目的就是說如何去我們現在的做法是建立一個標準建立一個模型"},{"start":11283.709,"end":11285.631,"text":"中小企業能夠全力發展深度節能"},{"start":11300.166,"end":11326.329,"text":"部長說大概有一些脈絡我想要請教還是一樣在中小企業事實上我已經很多次的跟部長去說事實上台灣現在如果是在高科技公司他們當然的發展很好但是中小企業以現在來說確實很多產業是屬於寒冬的狀況比方說像鋼鐵業像螺絲業那尤其算一些傳統的"},{"start":11327.61,"end":11327.79,"text":"立法院第11屆第12會議"},{"start":11340.547,"end":11360.183,"text":"電價這個就是還漲的一個標準來說事實上我們對中小企業我們都是用今年做指標但是如果像鋼鐵或是螺絲他們可能從烏俄戰爭戰爭後就已經陷入寒冬那這個寒冬現狀沒有好轉所以等還是這兩三年一直是持續是一個低迷的狀況"},{"start":11361.064,"end":11389.835,"text":"那如果是在這個情況之下他一樣沒有辦法說在這一次政府特別關心的一個產業沒有被照顧到對那部長那針對這部分你們現在要怎麼樣去協助像這些產業平常他們很有競爭力那遇到這樣一個景氣的一個寒冬的時候那要不要協助他們渡過這個難關第一個我們想到的是說按照他現在的產業如何讓他能夠轉型加值化"},{"start":11391.35,"end":11410.229,"text":"讓他不要在這個所謂的這個鴻海的這個市場裡面然後在隨這個隨波逐流我們建議他能夠轉型到未來發展的這個產業加值所以我們會透過數位化跟透過AI來幫助他整理資料"},{"start":11410.99,"end":11435.947,"text":"然後整理資訊來協助他但是因為他可能是很小的公司或者微型的企業所以我們會透過他的他整個的供應鏈的這個關係部長我相信你也知道像這樣的微型的供應鏈可是很多都是隱形冠軍嘛他可能像螺絲他只是做一個部分的一個螺絲的一個齁其中的一個小配件去行銷全世界"},{"start":11436.827,"end":11443.536,"text":"所以事實上他們的競爭力是有的他們只是遇到產業循環的時候會遇到他們最好的時候所以我們會透過技術的成長我們會有金屬中心然後會有生產力中心我們會透過論壇"},{"start":11451.866,"end":11462.932,"text":"然後把buyer把這個購買的這個廠家國外的廠家邀請進來臺灣然後透過論壇發表技術然後讓我們這中小微企業都能夠進到這個購買的這個程序然後我們來這個整合跟這個這個購買的這個公司從供應鏈開始幫他解決這個問題所以我們相信透過這個高質化"},{"start":11476.88,"end":11501.748,"text":"然後再來我們就幫他因為整合以後供應鏈整合以後會讓他降低成本降低這個所謂配送的成本機會成本運送的成本來降低他的這個成本以後增加他的這個競爭力我相信我們透過整合以後把臺灣發展成適合在國內發展的產業跟適合做國外這個出口的這個產業那這樣子的話我想對他們來講幫助就會比較大"},{"start":11506.67,"end":11523.771,"text":"那我想補充這補分就是要在現在他們需要到三天我想補充剛才說的這些當然我們沒辦法協助他們最實際的至少我們要把一些方向給他們因為他們開始這些產業現在是很辛苦的好不好我們會透過這個這個"},{"start":11526.656,"end":11527.796,"text":"還有部長我覺得事實上現在也要關注一個議題"},{"start":11555.629,"end":11579.706,"text":"我們看到日韓現在對於所謂移工的政策是大幅的放寬所以現在全世界都在搶人才這個人才也許不只是白領甚至藍領的人才事實上全世界都在搶我覺得臺灣要正視這個問題因為臺灣過去一直被說成是說在很多公司我們賣書是會推世界會推日本跟韓國會訓練人"},{"start":11582.208,"end":11583.189,"text":"12年度中央政府總預算案關於經濟部及所屬單位預算部分。"},{"start":11597.222,"end":11597.362,"text":"委員會委員會"},{"start":11618.012,"end":11618.192,"text":"請黃國昌委員質詢"},{"start":11664.042,"end":11673.725,"text":"臺研綠能的弊案,雪球越滾越大,整個社會都非常的關心之前當然有一些特定的媒體出來擦脂抹粉"},{"start":11675.502,"end":11694.777,"text":"說蘇貞昌3年多前就知道了我看到這個新聞我只覺得非常可笑理由是這整個案子我從我回到立法院之前我就不斷的在追蹤去年在這個經濟委員會也是台灣民眾黨的常委會委員在這邊公開質詢了以後"},{"start":11697.839,"end":11726.712,"text":"我們的經濟部才開始動作所以大家都在問蘇貞昌如果知道3年多還要等到晨晚會質詢了以後經濟部才動起來那請問之前到底在幹嘛但這也不關您的事這個都是您上任部長以前的事情我們對於政治責任跟行政責任的歸屬我向來的個性是一碼歸一碼就事論事把它討論清楚"},{"start":11727.799,"end":11755.332,"text":"但我要跟部長說明的是什麼上一次我在經濟委員會質詢的時候你沒來是次長來的那個時候針對次長來的時候我有針對要求他針對台研綠能的部分以及我等一下要說的另外一個也是台研綠能但是是在台南七股的弊案處理的狀況請他加以說明我們先一樣一樣來第一個事情是說"},{"start":11756.958,"end":11783.289,"text":"經濟部回給我的公文我不曉得有沒有簽到你那邊上面說他已經對經理人提告了所謂對經理人提告這個詞可能用詞不是很精確我有點看不懂是提民事訴訟還是提刑事告訴部長您知道嗎這個部分我想應該在我這個來內閣之前應該就已經提出了"},{"start":11784.292,"end":11787.453,"text":"是嗎?是提民事訴訟還是提刑事告訴?有人知道嗎?沒有,你知道就上來協助部長,不要客氣。跟委員報告,因為這個是台綠的經理人嘛,所以是台綠有向他提起刑事的告訴。民事球場呢?準備什麼時候告?"},{"start":11807.242,"end":11834.975,"text":"就是基本上要對於那個損失到底是多少所以現在對於台率損失多少還沒有掌握嗎因為我們目前知道台率到底還需要多久才知道它會損失多少不好意思喔我給你回答問題請你針對問題回答我們在上面問答不是我在這邊講你在那邊各說各話我們一個問題一個問題來把它講清楚第一個你說還沒有提民事訴訟理由是說損失還要評估"},{"start":11837.077,"end":11860.696,"text":"這個損失還要評估多久因為這個東西我們跟台泥當中有許多的現在繼續要進行仲裁那因為有一些的可能可以透過仲裁拿回一些我們的一些那個金額所以到時候要等到仲裁結束以後會比較確定的知道說到底確定的金額以後提告的對象是誰應該就是如果說要看如果能夠離得清再經過減掉的協助的話那應該就是經理人"},{"start":11864.332,"end":11878.024,"text":"經理人是誰應該是經理人經理人是誰就經理人就是過去我們就過去台綠的董事長跟總經理所以是要對陳起玉提告就是說等到確定以後看看我只提醒你們一件事齁給的書面報告"},{"start":11880.05,"end":11901.665,"text":"寫清楚還要評估多久第二個請經濟部特別注意督促喔消滅時效的問題你不要在那邊評估阿在那邊摸在那邊混阿等到消滅時效過去了以後大家要追究責任阿才說阿不好意思我們提告太晚了阿對方提出消滅時效的抗辯阿內行的人阿知道要怎麼放水"},{"start":11909.417,"end":11920.92,"text":"所以我特別在這邊質詢提醒一下經濟部好好督促國家損失多少錢台率損失多少錢每一塊錢全部都要追回來部長可以承諾嗎"},{"start":11922.211,"end":11945.182,"text":"我的範圍內一定沒問題阿可以啦部長權力很大我對你有信心阿你的範圍內一定可以把這個事情處理得很徹底阿第二個事情喔我上次在這邊質詢我問說臺南七股的漁電工生案一樣喔是台研綠能的喔我問他們說你們處理了沒有結果次長在這邊跟我說9月3號就移送了"},{"start":11945.885,"end":11971.268,"text":"我聽了就很狐疑阿因為我一直掌握到的訊息從頭到尾處理只有嘉義、益族、台南、七股根本沒處理他上次在這邊回答我說9月3號就移送了我說好沒有關係阿在國會備詢不要信口開河回去用書面報告交上來結果交上來了以後阿部長根本沒處理阿還在了解當中阿這樣的效率部長滿意嗎"},{"start":11973.591,"end":11990.324,"text":"呃,我想我跟委員一樣,不會很滿意不會很滿意嗎?好!請部長回去吼,轉告次長上次我把他當成是他資訊不足,不是故意說話書面回來,沒有好好處理部長也不滿意嗎?"},{"start":11991.684,"end":12020.123,"text":"麻煩回去督促我只問一個問題啊因為台研綠能在台南七股搞的爛事我質詢很多次了但是我邊質詢就邊在看我們的經濟部我們的台研到底有沒有把它當回事啊結果到最近書面回覆確定沒有處理嘛那為什麼我會提醒經濟部這件事情一定要處理啊非常快我很快就把它結束了因為"},{"start":12021.124,"end":12037.83,"text":"犯罪手法跟嘉義異族的犯罪手法跟在台南七股阿一模一樣一模一樣也就是大把的錢全部都在外面的白手套公司那白手套公司叫宏輝負責人現在被收押了"},{"start":12039.079,"end":12064.233,"text":"為什麼叫他白手套公司因為陳啟玉的兒子在那邊看著那個錢包嘛肥肉全部都到白手套公司結果我們國家的台顏綠能拿著台顏綠能的招牌啊去做生意結果台顏綠能以商業術語來講不要說吃骨頭啊渣渣分到一點渣渣嘉義一族跟台南七股一模一樣"},{"start":12065.595,"end":12080.124,"text":"而且這件事情誇張到什麼程度啊這件事情誇張到當初在幹這件事情的時候台南七股實際上面營運控的是誰啊是聯合再生欸是聯合再生欸"},{"start":12081.345,"end":12107.882,"text":"又是我們另外一個我們的國發會投資啊號稱綠能國家隊跟我們另外一個打著國家的招牌的台研綠能在搞這種事情啊部長您稍微看一下我把發票都貼上去了我為什麼把發票貼上去啊那家公司電力公司就是當初聯合再生實際上面控制的那家電力公司"},{"start":12111.65,"end":12130.841,"text":"第一期2200萬第二期1100萬付給誰?付給鴻輝就是我剛所講的白手套公司上面的名目是什麼?服務費服務費一期的服務費2200萬一期的服務費1100萬這到底是服務費還是開發票給回扣再洗錢請台元綠能"},{"start":12142.632,"end":12162.065,"text":"請台媛綠能回去了解清楚好嗎?好那第二個部分因為也涉及到我們國發會國發會裡面有董事的聯合再生嘛那剛好我們國發會在聯合再生裡面也有董事請我們的國發會在聯合再生的董事去了解清楚可以嗎?"},{"start":12164.626,"end":12185.829,"text":"國發會的部分我要徵詢沒有關係阿您很容易阿你打個電話給國發會的主委說阿主委我今天在經濟委員會有一個立委叫黃國昌執行的這個問題提醒我跟您講一聲這樣可以嗎好我來打電話看他要表決因為這些事情太離譜了阿我一直在追的案子一個聯合再生一個台研綠能兩個都出事"},{"start":12186.529,"end":12201.44,"text":"結果這兩家公司還連結在一起在台南七股但 大家好奇的是什麼 台南七股這個案子 是不是因為聯合再生也有份 台研綠能也有份 到目前為止 從經濟部到檢調根本沒有人在動"},{"start":12202.594,"end":12228.809,"text":"再麻煩部長回去瞭解一下,可以嗎?我要瞭解這個過程,因為我們不是檢調,所以請檢調幫忙。 是,這我瞭解。 是,是,是,是,是,不會啦,《台言綠能》裡面很多資料啦,經濟部肯查的話,絕對查得出來啊。這些發票... 因為我們不是檢調的專業,所以也很難判斷。沒有啦,這些發票我都拿得到,我跟部長保證,你們只要有人願意去《台言綠能》查,一定查得出來的。"},{"start":12230.026,"end":12230.406,"text":"請部長派人直接下去查"},{"start":12259.588,"end":12262.111,"text":"中午的會議不休息 延長會議時間 現在請劉許廷發言"},{"start":12279.704,"end":12294.918,"text":"委員好 吳安好這個 怎麼陳起玉啊這些王八蛋 混蛋透頂這個我相信新任的行政院包含郭部長在內應該也想掃蕩這些所謂的綠能蟑螂就是說運用綠能政策的機會去賺錢但是我今天想要跟部長討論的是這些錢都賺誰的錢"},{"start":12298.888,"end":12316.389,"text":"其實都是賺政府的錢對不對因為你不管是成立什麼樣的子公司開什麼樣的案子最後賣出去的對象不是台電就是所謂的國營企業等等對不對部長你的這些人他們在外面怎麼搞錢最後發出來的電他們賺錢都從哪裡來是不是都是賣給台電"},{"start":12318.59,"end":12320.291,"text":"是不是從台電的系統去做制度?"},{"start":12320.291,"end":12344.303,"text":"不過是這樣的就我們不一定會跟他買特別貴的電阿但是你就有一個能夠的機制他應該不是賺國家的錢阿他應該是賺那個廠商的錢而不是賺台電的錢到了最後啦為什麼這一段時間綠電會蓬勃發展台電的財務壓力會大幅的上升其實我們在之前總諮詢都討論過了對不對就是說你的成本還是相對高的綠電的錢我想這個就是不是說只有針對這一家會買比較好"},{"start":12346.744,"end":12357.028,"text":"所以我在想在裡面剛才委員吹詢的這一部分對不起容我再表達一下臺電買單是要麼就是我們的政策有所誤導不會喔"},{"start":12368.289,"end":12393.802,"text":"他也可以賣給外面的廠商阿他也可以賣給外面的廠商這就是我今天要跟你討論的事情嘛馬上我們要審查經濟部的預算今天財政跟經濟也聯席在審查最佳預算其實就是因為台電的財務狀況不太好所以要動用國家納稅人的錢來做補貼對不對那你今天我們如果沒有把這件事情講清楚沒有導引一些政策的改變你要我們放行這個預算是不可能的事情這個台電的錢坑其實很困難難解上一次我們在總諮詢的時候我們要求你提財務模型提報告"},{"start":12394.802,"end":12414.591,"text":"後來你也沒有提只有給我兩張書面回覆這是不夠的沒有沒有沒有我們要花時間寫對不對年底的時候會提出來年底的時候會寫好這部分我希望你仔細比照企業的規格來寫我們讓財務的部分更透明這第一個我會用三張表來表達就是損益表然後出產負債表跟現金流量表我也希望還有預估的模型"},{"start":12415.011,"end":12415.191,"text":"議員提出的問題"},{"start":12433.166,"end":12458.207,"text":"所以我們大概發200多億度的綠電啦但是真正在市場流通大概只有15億度啦其他通通都進台電大水庫嘛 對不對好 現在的問題就是這樣我們高價短購綠電但是你進了台電的大水庫之後你的電價是統一的那我們又不能隨便漲電價 對不對所以實務上來講就是綠電高額的發電但其實我們沒有辦法回收嘛這個其實就是造成台電財務壓力的一個核心的原因我之前注意到部長曾經有提個概念叫做綠電分倉啊"},{"start":12459.068,"end":12480.596,"text":"也就是說用不同的價格來做計算我覺得這樣的制度其實沒有什麼不好嘛對不對因為這個制度好的地方第一個它可以跟國際接軌國際上大部分有在做推動綠能的國家也做了綠電分倉嘛高價發的綠電就用相對高的價格買反正企業有需求第二個簡單明瞭嘛你在行政作業的程序上改一改電費單就好了嘛對不對第三個符合你的政策承諾啊"},{"start":12480.956,"end":12510.013,"text":"上次我們在議事堂總諮詢的時候你講這個因應企業需要綠能比較多嘛因為全世界的這個淨零碳排所以他們當然應該要負擔相對的成本那就用分倉的方式來處理我覺得目前沒有什麼不對的你自己曾經在6月的時候其實有提嘛就是說你真的要研理這件事情7月的時候接受專訪你又再講一次這件事情那請問到了現在他的進度是什麼我們現在進度還是持續在進行中進行中我們現在這個要先把公司設立起來嘛"},{"start":12510.717,"end":12516.57,"text":"所以我們現在在進行中你做綠電分商甚至連公司都不用設立你修改台電的收電費的方式不就好了嗎"},{"start":12517.981,"end":12540.057,"text":"你現在還去搞一些公司或怎麼講 中鋼力海 那個就是老調蟲台電也有在準備台電也有在準備 我要問的就是說你這樣子的一個政策進度 因為這個政策我認為是有助於改善台電的財務結構嘛那這個政策具體的進度到底是什麼我很擔心你6、7月講 然後大家覺得好像有一點改變的樣子然後過了幾個月又沉寂下來 你有沒有受到什麼壓力啊不會不會不會會不會傳過水霧痕不會"},{"start":12541.658,"end":12541.698,"text":"主席"},{"start":12572.612,"end":12595.978,"text":"目前為止很順利那明年比如說明年下半年或者是後年上路什麼有沒有具體的時間表我們這個可能齁跟委員報告這個真正是方向是這樣子但是我們想應該還要跟電價審議委員報告我跟你講這個到最後預算審查的時候這個希望有一個具體更加具體的一個說明你總要讓大家知道說台電的財務正在改善"},{"start":12596.758,"end":12596.938,"text":"陳昌明委員質詢"},{"start":12626.385,"end":12651.666,"text":"主席,首先有請經濟部我們的郭部長。請郭部長。委員好,部長好。你這個這麼大時間,但是我看你的預算一些地方,好像不是日在地,沒有在地的一種感覺。我現在跟你說,"},{"start":12653.055,"end":12660.261,"text":"你們有一個計劃叫做城鄉在地共好計劃西米公園要開5頁所要吸引國際頂級的消費群來談我給你請教"},{"start":12668.83,"end":12672.294,"text":"新年五月一年差不多一月兩千萬,臺灣有幾個鄉鎮?臺灣有幾個鄉鎮?臺灣有幾個鄉鎮?臺灣有幾個鄉鎮?臺灣有幾個鄉鎮?臺灣有幾個鄉鎮?臺灣有幾個鄉鎮?臺灣有幾個鄉鎮?"},{"start":12691.584,"end":12720.723,"text":"你去問國務委員會去問交通部的觀光局再問農業部這每一個地方都在推推到現在不曉得花了多少錢實在講起來成果不是很好你們在這裡說要發掘全國各鄉鎮獨特的產業和理容還要推廣美食、酒店、醫美、健康、檢查等"},{"start":12722.199,"end":12750.001,"text":"您這寫了不確實境,這樣少的預算,要做這麼大的事情,還寫得這麼好聽喔?保證,你曉得觀光業現在有多慘?臺灣人跑出去,沒有人跑進來。以前是大陸課為基準,現在連日本課也很少啦。我要說我們這個國家我不知道要怎麼想,沒有人可以讓觀光業繼續維持下去。"},{"start":12752.515,"end":12772.753,"text":"所以在這我覺得這個計畫我支持但是我覺得不切實際你要做一個特色出來不然你這樣在寫早不知重點這我給你建議真的要下鄉真的要了解各鄉鎮的情形你沒有去問問大家他的轄區經驗都非常豐富會主點你很多我們的看法會不一樣"},{"start":12780.046,"end":12780.867,"text":"因為這個問題裡面你又拼了116億"},{"start":12785.307,"end":12806.993,"text":"推動中小微企業的多元振興發展的方案來促進地方的發展,這一百十六個月就有高捷了。中小微企業的多元振興發展,我在你預算書裡面看不出來,你把我列到最前面。我們那中小型微企業非常多,你給我推薦細一點,我會去跟他們講,幫你們推銷,幫你們解決問題。"},{"start":12816.44,"end":12816.901,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":12826.581,"end":12826.921,"text":"你們這個應該是產業發展史的"},{"start":12851.84,"end":12866.347,"text":"您說經濟部以地方稀疏產業所推進行國家標準的五一智慧感實證結合了一大堆的企業說在2013年有154億美元到20幾年大概有450億美元這裏面的功能就有了我唸一下補充聽說可以做什麼"},{"start":12883.333,"end":12902.383,"text":"議題是五一智慧感、智慧感共感能源管理系統、AI智慧監控系統、天線解決方案、五日企業專網、室外廣告機、戶外空氣評測專制系。說這個會像你後輩那麼大"},{"start":12905.718,"end":12928.029,"text":"剛才到203年那年有590億美金你這個價位我們也不知道你今年只拚了3億這個東西如果一個智慧感就是電信感有這麼好的市場你那個資料也讓我們去了解還是被人家綁在一起這些時候保證我們是"},{"start":12930.054,"end":12950.132,"text":"社會生意大家都知道這沒辦法得到的處理,讓這個生意那麼大你不能好好推出來,尤其他的監視系統,你是貼政府的情報,現在人車走到哪裡都要被照相下來,這是另外一種方式的改變。"},{"start":12952.754,"end":12953.255,"text":"新訓練人人才先布局"},{"start":12971.977,"end":12973.279,"text":"我們要建構的是智慧城市"},{"start":12988.897,"end":12999.852,"text":"所以這要跟每一個管治政府提案,我們主要是管治政府提案每一項補助請問。你現在知道要做什麼嗎?這是問那屬於情報的監視系統還是怎樣?沒有啦。"},{"start":13005.419,"end":13007.36,"text":"委員我去你的辦公室喔 把你最少報告"},{"start":13022.352,"end":13030.801,"text":"我聽你們說我是要聽你們教我上課,不然我會失誤。我們的專家會去報告你。好,我了解一下。再來,我們現在AI大家很熱門,大家知道運算力就是國力,你又號稱四年培育20萬人才,"},{"start":13044.847,"end":13065.041,"text":"立憑我們AI的軟體擠進全世界第3名,我們都了解,我們的IC晶片、我們的富士武器都很第一,但是你講說我們AI軟體產業世界排名26名,但是你的目標要怎樣?2028年,要讓台灣近日"},{"start":13070.289,"end":13090.963,"text":"臺灣的產業今日前三名,我們要建立臺灣自己的子群AI,要進入應用的時代,這個應用很重要,代表臺灣成為軟體設計先進的國家,我已算是把你現現的都看不出來,還是我這個"},{"start":13094.146,"end":13109.488,"text":"這個合文沒法管 看不懂 你們到底你要在AI軟體設計方面 憑AI轉型 你們的經費到底在哪裡 聯合情緒在哪裡 因為這個很重要 我了解 從這個時候建立AI軟體的時候"},{"start":13110.98,"end":13136.489,"text":"AI軟體不是那麼好建立的喔那要模擬要各方面的喔阿你現在要怎麼做你教我教一下我們先建立這個訓練的部分然後訓練完了以後讓他可以就業的部分然後我們對個人的話會建立平台讓他在上面發展阿你在2028年要進到第三名聽到很興奮你要跟人才培訓教到一樣"},{"start":13136.989,"end":13145.594,"text":"我們今年2萬5千人為海外進來,還有2萬5千人是為國家才生起來,所以今年5萬人,總共20萬是這樣生的?你想像是很豐滿"},{"start":13155.487,"end":13172.292,"text":"阿實際是很能幹你今年要告我完我們大廠會去啦我們的權要值得取啦人才會進來啦當然當然阿不然你想要二加四的計畫我跟他說現在是只有資訊要好談的你去傳統產業等著要跟你問東西時間不夠啦我這樣跟你點的就知道啦你如果要新的AI做AI軟體的時候我希望"},{"start":13184.672,"end":13204.674,"text":"你這一個資料給我好好來代讀一下好不好 稍等 再一次你常常說中內關外 中外關內我問你夫高夫長長你說昨天日本捷克美國菲律賓在這 川普說"},{"start":13206.297,"end":13227.471,"text":"我們台灣搶美國人的權今天我最先看到了一個資料台積電的前董事長劉德英他說最先進的機師在美國生產可能會賠上百億美元最先進的產品在台灣製造才能酸癢"},{"start":13228.865,"end":13255.787,"text":"他要提醒我們記得這句話第一人政治是非常現實不要把矽谷台積電當成護士女的想法這句話也好聽他是以前要到美國支持到美國今天講這種話他講的第二句話大國對小國的大國對小國家的"},{"start":13257.988,"end":13273.729,"text":"大國對小國看待國家利益,是以國家利益為推動。你現在不放棄內關外,我第一跟你說,把台灣的這個企業顧得好,第二你的手下四大公司,"},{"start":13275.73,"end":13302.798,"text":"臺電虧損雷雷一兆 中油要加你增加補保增加資本額增加預算也是虧損雷雷 自來水公司是嗷嗷待苦臺黨是賣土地求生 我感覺你把私營公司整頓好 因你企業的專才就對臺灣的貢獻很大 別想我借 顧好自己 這個是都變的時代 有信心嗎"},{"start":13304.531,"end":13309.475,"text":"請李博義 李博義 李博義委員不在 請麥玉珍 麥玉珍 麥玉珍委員不在 請鍾嘉斌委員質詢"},{"start":13329.113,"end":13353.201,"text":"主席、在場的委員、先進、列席的政務機關、首長、官員、會長、公眾夥伴、媒體、記者、女士、先生有請郭部長還有能源署的游署長、水利署的賴署長。請郭部長、請能源署署長、賴署長。委員好、部長好、兩位署長好。我的標籤很清楚。補足沿管工程能力如其完工、講自來水、完善氣能規範符合IEA的標準。我們來看一下。"},{"start":13355.148,"end":13381.496,"text":"部長 上次很關心在院會裡面有跟你請教嘛過去第3期第4期自來水地區的供水改善計畫呢總額花了143點多億屏東就超過一半快71億5那屏東自來水普及率在我們這樣共同努力之下不到5成現在已經到了破7成了但全台是9成5我們看看過去這114年度的自來水公司的副主任預算當中這第5期的114年度呢他一共有13.5億"},{"start":13383.337,"end":13390.978,"text":"全部是75億,5年是75億,一百年總額是用15.3億,我們現在看但是我統計一下,在那屏東地區有27個案子,總工程會就要11.13億明年度有15.3億,屏東這邊就需要11.13億,你覺得有沒有辦法來幫忙支持錢製作都完成囉我請這個書長"},{"start":13412.754,"end":13412.874,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":13425.333,"end":13425.353,"text":"這簡單講啦齁"},{"start":13446.928,"end":13471.383,"text":"全台灣其實包商現在屏東的工程只剩屏東可以做了啦當然重點是因為我們預算總預算審查延宕本來你們一定10月就要公布要核定的名單給世海水公司名人補助名單李總在這裡嘛對不對因為你們沒有核定嘛水公司在我們屏東都不敢講話部長會打包票明年屏東該做的就一定可以做"},{"start":13472.483,"end":13474.524,"text":"臺電新達電廠混氫發電的試驗目前是用藍綠氫、藍氫還是灰氫?目前是灰氫那什麼時候可以導入藍綠氫或者是藍氫?因為灰氫還是有碳排"},{"start":13496.131,"end":13520.63,"text":"現在跟中央研究院有在討論對 你們在研究中研院攜手台電去碳燃氫的發電啟動對不對 是但我們知道石化燃料也好天然氣也好它經過碳補桌經過高溫裂解純粹有燃氫這是碳補桌的但是你產出固碳固態碳然後可以把它碳補桌把它存放著那就是燃綠情勢這樣"},{"start":13522.031,"end":13536.758,"text":"那國際上的往下一頁看國際上他是要藍青要到一定程度才能叫藍綠青IEA發布的這個標準阿他有一個A級的強度那請問目前台灣規範的碳排的強度標準多少才叫藍青署長"},{"start":13538.424,"end":13565.93,"text":"我請署長跟你報告對跟委員報告目前我們台灣還沒有訂出標準還沒訂出來我們都參考國際的規範是的就是要問這個部長您知道我們在說藍青藍綠青灰青的時候其實我們自己的藍青的標準跟藍綠青的都還沒有訂出來往下看所以我們看看目前中油跟台電二氧化碳的封存計畫去碳藍青後它有一個CO2的碳封存也會產生固態碳這也包括高碳排我們也會碳補儲產生的固態碳"},{"start":13568.01,"end":13568.751,"text":"報告委員 因為要解決這個碳的問題 其實有很多的方法"},{"start":13594.462,"end":13597.543,"text":"能源署要趕快訂出台灣的碳補桌利用及封存的規範,可以嗎?進度如何?"},{"start":13611.372,"end":13634.848,"text":"這部分是環境部他們這是環境部訂的我不是聯約所我去問環境部長那既然如此往下看那麼我最後一個問題就是嘉青站卡到了我們土地管制規則中游只有12%可以兼營嘉青站而且我在3月11號的時候問你們的次長他說要回去評估評估到現在比照充電站現行的交通站可以兼營嘉青站進度如何"},{"start":13637.662,"end":13658.153,"text":"這個部分我們已經有相關的公告,加金站、加油站是可以在符合規範下什麼時候可以開始設置?臺灣中油可以開始設置?我們現在是第一個先由中油還是先把第一個示範站先做出來之後給其他的業者所以現在法規上已經可以了是嗎?因為我告訴你喔,上一條上一條都市計畫裡面的事情卸責20條之一本來就有加油氣站,請問這個氣是什麼氣?"},{"start":13659.894,"end":13685.791,"text":"這個是天然氣不是氫氣嘛對不對部長知道吼現在的規定可以加天然氣他也不能加氫氣這很荒謬啊天然氣是比氫氣在危險防治程度上更高對不對往下一頁所以呢加油站的設置規則你們再改這個就可以了嘛你們汽機車電池的充電機更換物你們直接改在底下的管理規則就可以充電了所以你們趕快去改這個管理規則就可以加氫了好不好部長可以承諾嗎所以請研議氫能產業相關的規範與國際能源的"},{"start":13688.593,"end":13706.026,"text":"準確 IELTS準確呢 那麼避免影響CBAN的可行性 一個月提書面報告 可以嗎可以提嗎 讓環境部全場 最後呢 讓加油站經營充電站的路徑 循這個路徑 讓加油站得以經營加輕站 一個月提出來 可以嗎好 謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝兩位組長"},{"start":13716.871,"end":13726.716,"text":"陳冠廷 陳冠廷委員不在 請林楚映 林楚映 林楚映委員不在 請蘇清泉 蘇清泉 蘇清泉委員不在 請何欣淳委員質詢好 謝謝召委 我們請部長 請郭部長 還有產發署 請產發署"},{"start":13744.418,"end":13766.279,"text":"委員好還有署長我剛剛有去問完委員會那今天他在審環境部的一個預算那其中有一點是跟我們經濟部有關係我也希望經濟部跟環境部可以合作噪音的問題噪音龜水管環境部但是噪音的源頭呢汽機車的改管那個排氣管"},{"start":13767.32,"end":13773.442,"text":"製造端誰管?我們經濟部管那環境部跟經濟部聽說有在跨部會有在談談了從源頭的管理怎麼認證怎麼登錄有認證登錄制度建立了之後到後端才是所謂的稽查如果在道路上汽機車"},{"start":13786.886,"end":13793.674,"text":"有排放、有改管、有噪音所以警察要來抓那這個為什麼之所以重要這是民生大議題我們各個城市裡面對於這個噪音公害是抓不勝抓、防不勝防我剛剛還給環境部部長一張現在在我們的網路上"},{"start":13808.004,"end":13832.365,"text":"那個賣家說什麼我這個排氣管啊最新型聲音可調可大可小不怕警察抓非常囂張啊那所以我就要拜託部長啊跟署長啊在我們在產業端這個我們國內現在所謂的排氣管的業者那所有的認證登錄是不是有跟環境部合作部長你知不知道你跟署長回答"},{"start":13839.627,"end":13853.355,"text":"排氣管的部分要跟環境部這邊就一些標準那生產端老實講他必須要符合國家的規定至於業者所標榜的這些如果委員剛剛所講的資料我們可以來做進一步的查詢請問一下我們國家的這個所謂的標準那有沒有與時俱進在檢討"},{"start":13859.758,"end":13859.778,"text":"委員長"},{"start":13883.288,"end":13895.082,"text":"我們經濟部產發署這邊有可能掌握嗎?因為這一件事情你不要看它是小小的事可是它牽涉到我們經濟部環境部跟後端的交通部"},{"start":13896.437,"end":13900.06,"text":"消費者的行為這後面必須要有技術所謂的改管工作室或是改管的專家"},{"start":13922.558,"end":13931.874,"text":"那改管的專家改管的專家所改的管管又是從哪裡來也是應該從工廠不然就從網路來阿是不是"},{"start":13934.883,"end":13948.656,"text":"事後給我一個書面報告好不好或是到我辦公室我們好好的來討論你不要看它是小事它是我們所有市民啊居民裡面一個最大最重要的是最大的事喔我本來要睡不著那是一個很嚴重的事你知道這個噪音我們一起來這個來好好的來防治喔"},{"start":13954.681,"end":13970.993,"text":"第二件也是跟環境部跟經濟部講的剛剛部長在回答上一位委員在談到我們這個探捕桌台中火力發電廠對於這個探捕桌的這個相關的這個技術或者是應用有開始了嗎部長你知道嗎"},{"start":13974.148,"end":13992.062,"text":"我不是那麼清楚有開始總計開始了嘛對不對那但是他剛剛問到說經濟部能源局對這個碳捕捉的這個對不起他說是環境部要去所謂的認證跟國際規格接軌的問題那這個部分我們經濟部又是如何因應"},{"start":13993.223,"end":14006.082,"text":"有主動要求環境部快一點嗎?跟委員報告有關CCS這部分是環境部主責那我們經濟部這邊當然就我們所屬國營事業中油跟台電會做一個相關的試驗計畫那這個結果當然會回饋到環境部那邊去"},{"start":14009.286,"end":14011.489,"text":"我是希望這個十分計畫要快而且最好是能夠全面那才能夠更加速來改善這個碳排的問題那第二個昨天我有去那個台積電在台中中科廠他們有一個零費中心已經開始啟用我相信部長應該知道"},{"start":14028.45,"end":14031.911,"text":"臺積電希望把它內部的所謂的循環經濟能夠做到極限、極致能夠完全沒有廢棄物因為所有的廢棄物都可以再找出它的價值那可以再提煉再利用那這個當然要跟很多他們其他協力廠商或者是產業鏈的產業端的這些廠商一起來合作不過我覺得我建議我們"},{"start":14053.598,"end":14079.312,"text":"應該要再去看一次因為有很多雖然是在示範階段但是也已經是可以達到我們所預期的這個事業廢棄物是有去化的可能性最後達到甚至再利用再生產那這個就是我一直在跟經濟部提的不是只有台積電該這麼做而是我們應該以國家之力量政府之力量也要幫助我們中小企業傳統產業要去化"},{"start":14081.773,"end":14109.918,"text":"循環經濟如何建立它的機制去化這些事業廢棄物不然部長你應該也知道啦你也是這個公司工廠出身的現在我們絕大部分臺灣的這個工業區也好非工業區也好這些的事業廢棄物的一個去化是一個很頭痛的問題耶報告委員這個部分我已經有在幾個月前就已經指示我們的這個園館局開始做了"},{"start":14110.558,"end":14115.777,"text":"在工業區裡面必須要學台積電有零費中心"},{"start":14116.581,"end":14121.962,"text":"我建議啦我以三個月前就跟他講我們除了園區要開始做怎麼做事後再來跟我報告最重要的是以我們園區為中心如何去服務廣大的這些傳統產業裡面製造端所生產出來的事業廢棄物這個我們要分門別類一個一個的去盤點循環經濟很重要啊不然這些事業廢棄物未來會是我們各縣是一個非常頭痛的問題也是台灣的問題"},{"start":14145.928,"end":14173.556,"text":"好不好 部長 好 謝謝請黃宏輝 黃宏輝 黃宏輝委員不在 請徐欣穎 徐欣穎徐欣穎委員不在 請岳延之委員質詢部長好我請部長"},{"start":14175.823,"end":14176.085,"text":"請郭部長"},{"start":14184.11,"end":14212.047,"text":"委員好部長請教一下因為那個川普不是說要在墨西哥加拿大還有針對中國大陸都要提高關稅嗎那因為他這個提高關稅可能跟您之前所提到一個政策感覺會帶來一個威脅啦因為你之前一直在提到就是說境外國內嘛就是說要我們的一些企業移到其他的國家去生產嘛然後去降低關稅那我們現在其實有很多大廠已經到墨西哥去設廠"},{"start":14213.548,"end":14229.14,"text":"這個部分你掌握狀況怎樣?報告委員,我想我所了解的狀況是這樣,我們台灣到墨西哥的這個場域,其實跟美國的新墨西哥州其實是接見的,連結的。"},{"start":14231.499,"end":14247.204,"text":"那現在川普如果對他們要定課這個25%的這個關稅我相信他們會去衡量因為他在墨西哥他墨西哥政府有給他一些incentive給他稅的incentive可能他土地不用錢"},{"start":14248.356,"end":14270.484,"text":"那他會算,如果我這個東西賣進去美國,賣進去美國,那這樣的衡量是不是划算?他在那個地方生產,他不一定是賣給美國,他可能是賣給加拿大,可能也是賣給這個南美的這個廠商,所以我們要去了解他們的這個……所以你要先評估一下他生產出來之後是賣到哪嗎?"},{"start":14271.064,"end":14271.204,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":14292.486,"end":14308.119,"text":"那第二個我想問一下假設這些所謂的電子專業製造代工廠或公司受到影響的話那因為按照WTO理論上這些行業應該是免稅免關稅那這部分會不會去跟WTO申訴"},{"start":14310.711,"end":14339.146,"text":"我想這個部分我們去跟申訴要有贏的把握啦不然你去申訴等於是所以沒有贏的把握就不會去我們現在還不太了解會有多大的影響不是啊那個第一我要說有影響因為我們現在要把SOP定出來嘛對你怎麼可能說等到有影響再想怎麼辦嘛所以你要先想我們有我們這方面的scenario是都有在進行對那我這問說會不會這個跟WTO有沒有關係你不會去做任何動作就對了齁"},{"start":14343.462,"end":14361.752,"text":"主要就是說這個政策是您提出來的嘛你還有一個政策是講說大手拉小手嘛大帶小嘛那很多大 那個是供應鏈對供應鏈一樣嘛供應鏈你出去之後大家在那邊就形成供應鏈嘛那如果說有其他的影響的話我們要怎麼因應嘛我現在問的問題是這個"},{"start":14364.028,"end":14383.551,"text":"我們怎麼因應是我們要看他們會碰到什麼樣的問題啊不一定都是關稅的問題你做一個部長你不可能是你都沒有想過你等到說他發生問題以後他來告訴我們要我們怎麼解決我們才來協助嘛沒有這樣子的啦通常產業的發展你要比人家先想好兩三步啦"},{"start":14384.031,"end":14400.195,"text":"他可能會怎麼樣然後所以我們怎麼解決然後解決之後可能又會面臨什麼困難所以我們再怎麼解決怎麼可能是說我先拋一個想法出來等你有問題我再幫你想怎麼解決不是這樣啦部長所以現在我們就是要問你說這個事情後續幾個步驟你們規劃嗎"},{"start":14403.447,"end":14417.726,"text":"所以你是要了解對阿對阿不然的話你這樣子蠻恐怖的阿現在國際上發生任何的事情尤其是川普他可能會拋出很多跟拜登不一樣的政策出來然後我們都想說等他拋了再講然後發生影響再說"},{"start":14419.678,"end":14445.033,"text":"應該不是這樣子吧部長報告委員我想這個問題跟你所想像的不會一樣是那是怎樣我講商業上面我們必須要看他實際出手了以後我們再來對應當然我們有很多對應的方法現在就是在問你方法你現在感覺就是講這個命題不一定是講清楚的其實我問你問題你如果有清楚一點然後有辦法回答我的問題就是剛剛說如果說像這些"},{"start":14449.135,"end":14468.361,"text":"電子專業的製造代工廠如果他有受到這個關稅的影響那我們政府會怎麼因應嗎?我們就幫助他到美國去設廠就好啦幫助他去美國設廠是不是?就是他隔一條街就是美國啦所以現在因應的方式就是幫助他去美國設廠當然啦那有多大的把握?多大的把握?"},{"start":14470.489,"end":14495.892,"text":"對阿,就是說你只要幫助他,他就會去嗎?美國就...他們自己就會去啦所以你這也算是...所以美國那個地方齁,報告委員,這個桃李不言,下至晨曦啦好不好,他的條件夠好他就會去所以其實部長你也提了一個移美論啦移動的移啦,移美論就是說我們未來就把這些產業這些工廠、公司,勸他們去美國設廠解決這個問題嘛條件不好他也不會去嘛那對國內的勒?"},{"start":14497.434,"end":14504.829,"text":"國內的產業呢?國內的產業就是我們會分兩種嘛我們會看他所需要的問題是什麼"},{"start":14505.936,"end":14526.859,"text":"那他對國內現在都還沒有定出來要做什麼樣的措施嘛所以我們不會先講啦我們會等他的確定他會對台灣採取什麼樣的措施我們才有這個幫助的方式部長您的答詢都高深莫測就是不願意我不知道這是不願意先底牌還是說根本沒有準備好啦"},{"start":14527.259,"end":14552.412,"text":"那我是希望說你是不想我是希望你是因為不想先理牌啦但如果說其實你都是沒有準備好你不知道會有什麼影響然後沒有因應作為所以你就在立院答詢的時候就說我們都準備好啦但是怎麼樣到時候再說我就會覺得很恐怖啦所以希望說你是準備好的你不是我所以你不能用我的想法那你這樣以後你每次來你每次來答詢的時候你回答問題都用這種方式就好啦因為你的問題就讓我"},{"start":14554.173,"end":14554.634,"text":"請林倩琦委員質詢"},{"start":14584.979,"end":14597.565,"text":"主席,謝謝召委,我們立院同仁跟我們行政單位的夥伴們,大家早安大家好。我是不是可以先請文經濟部長,郭部長。請郭部長。順便我要問的議題,或許這個國貿署,產發署,還有制裁局,或許會跟你們有一些關係。"},{"start":14611.783,"end":14629.335,"text":"這幾週前因為我們有一個主題在CPTPP但本席長期也很關注整個台灣的這個經濟在國際間的一個發展那因為我本身在文化上的專業不過我先談一下這件事情當然我們現在還在這個過程當中"},{"start":14631.196,"end":14655.076,"text":"但是從我學生時代的WTO一直到這個TPP然後一直到現在的CPTPP我們都知道當然有一些過程當中的緩解是我們一直要克服的但是在這過程我們當然也是要做一些準備所以本席這邊想要提問的是在農漁業等這一些產業可能在如果未來我們有機會進去了之後呢會碰到的這些問題我想請教一下這個部長那我們在經濟發展的同時"},{"start":14661.201,"end":14677.858,"text":"這個部分我們在國際間會碰到什麼樣的衝擊跟我們怎麼去因應?謝謝我們現在目前這個CPTPP這個當然很積極的要加入但是這個CPTPP它有幾個基本原則"},{"start":14679.716,"end":14699.259,"text":"這是他們要共識決所以我們都還在努力啦都還在努力這個我本來是待會要問不過部長您先提到了就是那我們有沒有一些評估在他們這個共識決的一個困難下我們加入的一個期程可能性"},{"start":14699.699,"end":14699.779,"text":"財政部長"},{"start":14715.985,"end":14738.903,"text":"所以部裡面有沒有一些預期或者是預估?我們都跟其他的這個會員在已經在裡面的會員我們都跟他多交流啦因為這個誠信是他們一個非常重要的一個選項那我們相信我們一貫以來我們在外交上面我們在這個各方面都表現我們是一個被信任的國家"},{"start":14739.824,"end":14754.22,"text":"所以我們的機會是非常的高不過我想具體的部分我是不是請我們那個國貿署的署長跟你報告好的 那個是不是署長您會後可以在這個部分跟我比較更細緻一點報告因為我從WTO學生時代就"},{"start":14755.302,"end":14771.076,"text":"蠻關心我們整個的這個問題不過今天我可能相對應的這個問題我比較關心我的主題是不是會後你有機會把這個部分給我做一個書面然後或是跟辦公室來做個約定然後我們來針對這個部分我了解一下目前的進度"},{"start":14771.856,"end":14772.997,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":14791.003,"end":14794.146,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於經濟部及所屬單位預算部分。"},{"start":14817.685,"end":14817.805,"text":"發言委員"},{"start":14832.602,"end":14832.662,"text":"市委會議員"},{"start":14862.543,"end":14884.335,"text":"好 謝謝這是我比較關注的部分然後最後就做一個那個從民眾的觀點未來我會更深度的跟部裡面來探討能源的議題但是我可能簡單的問一下我們知道明年要撥補那是不是部長這邊我想很清楚的了解一下我們整體是不是在電費的這個部分會漲很多"},{"start":14884.915,"end":14905.559,"text":"跟委員報告,撥補一千億是在改善臺電的財務情形。臺電借的錢蠻多的。這個撥補一千億,我們大概一年要花了兩百多億的利息。這個撥補可以改善我們財務的狀況,大概是這樣子。跟電價沒有關係,電價是由電價審議委員他們決定的。"},{"start":14911.306,"end":14911.326,"text":"吳麗華委員"},{"start":14942.401,"end":14943.021,"text":"請王總經理"},{"start":14975.966,"end":14976.547,"text":"國務卿好 國務卿好"},{"start":14999.56,"end":15008.143,"text":"沒有全部啦沒有全部幾乎啊對因為大型的部分你現在講是說這個公家機關要先帶頭節電那個總統開了氣候變遷委員會就是希望能夠節電嘛那一定"},{"start":15015.946,"end":15042.654,"text":"換了智慧電表之後我們要做的就是要去做一個管理嘛就是說來看一下是說哪一些機關有比較異常的使用狀況嘛所以我們先講啊勞動部北分署這個昨天勞動部新任部長到那個北分署長的辦公室去講是說爆料真的布置過當啊那甚至也有媒體之前報導講是說還有用綠植栽牆啊有利植物生長所以在辦公室內設軌道燈導致電費暴漲"},{"start":15045.555,"end":15062.235,"text":"那過去到現在既然我們現在各部門也都已經有做這個智慧電表了難道我們沒有一些管理機制是可以去看是說哪一個部門他用電的狀況確實跟他的人員也好或說跟他的相關配置也好是不符合比例的嗎"},{"start":15063.018,"end":15078.658,"text":"我們大概目前齁因為總不能說都要一般老百姓你們要節電用電不能要省電小機關學校要隨手關燈結果反而我們的大部會尤其是大關冷氣開直栽牆做軌道燈做"},{"start":15080.58,"end":15080.6,"text":"委員會議員"},{"start":15099.716,"end":15120.282,"text":"他現在的用電方式,那我們如果可以改善,那麼將來可以進步多少?我們現在都還在建立標本,我現在跟委員報告,也請委員能夠幫忙因為我們現在所有公務機關,要做這些事情都要透過採購法,很麻煩有什麼比較好的方法,可以比較快來落實"},{"start":15123.031,"end":15143.817,"text":"現在我們現在都透過財務法這個是出乎我意料之外的部長本席給建議阿你應該是先盤點一下是說我們用電的比如說哪幾個部會是用電大戶然後尤其是比較特殊他欸你怎麼會這個部會他或是說哪個辦公室他都是列為前幾名然後來去做檢討嗎我們有10大標竿的這個包括醫院"},{"start":15148.838,"end":15172.404,"text":"同質性比較高的產業我們都有標出來醫院、學校、公共機構這個資料能不能公布還是說能不能來讓國人知道也要求他們做改善這個沒有問題我們是已經都是公開的資料我們要選哪幾個產業哪幾家公司產業是一個部分我現在講說以公部門以身作則"},{"start":15173.624,"end":15199.995,"text":"我們現在講說公部門隱身作則不然我之前還看到是說我們台電的董事長說官邸八台冷氣都不敢吹所以有人是這個樣子那有人是有人是浪費用電那我們當然要抓出來所以因為部長你是產業界出身我想你一定很了解本席現在講的就是說我怎麼樣用數字化管理去看各部會的狀況所以這樣的資料可以提供什麼時候"},{"start":15205.66,"end":15208.262,"text":"請給本席辦公室以及經濟委員會的委員"},{"start":15228.035,"end":15238.876,"text":"本席有查到還有很多的民眾是沒有換成智慧電表但是從去年今年一直都有所謂的超錯電表的新聞"},{"start":15240.128,"end":15242.731,"text":"臺中8月114戶傳統電表超錯苗栗頭份也有超錯的問題本席最近辦公室也接獲有民眾說同期一樣的空間"},{"start":15259.295,"end":15286.856,"text":"他的電費就比去年多了一千多塊那當然第一時間他跟台電反應台電講是說因為我們電價有漲阿等等相關他說但是他的數字沒有變所以這會衍生什麼這樣的狀況衍生到是說現在台電如果說去超表的話一般民眾一千多塊說實在也不是付不起只會覺得說心很痛那再加上說他是用銀行的直接轉扣所以他就扣款出去了"},{"start":15287.336,"end":15287.536,"text":"電視你台電在用啊"},{"start":15309.922,"end":15332.391,"text":"所以說你會變成是說到底我今天多用多少電那那個轉盤一直在轉如果說他沒有換成智慧電表是傳統電表的話他就一直在轉啊那你真的已經去問收到帳單的時候已經是兩個月前一個月前的事情了那個時候的那個數字跟現在數字也不一樣民眾會變成沒有辦法去確實或是查核說到底有沒有超錯的一個狀況"},{"start":15333.431,"end":15354.008,"text":"那但是部長我要提出來是說從2022年2023年到2024年每年其實都有因為民眾認為說他的帳單真的是太異常了他就申訴最後鍥而不捨所以說才發現說是超錯那但是這個是民眾鍥而不捨啊你有一般的民眾可能他覺得說多一千塊"},{"start":15355.387,"end":15362.191,"text":"臺電不會錯啦,臺電政府機關、國營企業不會錯啦,他就攪了,無形當中這個部分 導入AI下去確認用這個大資料來比對,然後來精進、來集合這些 臺電做還是經濟部做?"},{"start":15362.191,"end":15362.211,"text":"臺電會做"},{"start":15381.946,"end":15408.283,"text":"部長 本市也提一下啦 內機內控就像如同你的工廠管理 良率的部分該抽檢也要抽檢啊 要多少 譬如說這縣市要抽檢 適時的抽檢 不定時的抽檢用這樣子的良率來去回推說是不是我們是正常的 這個部分是不是能夠研究一個辦法這個可以 這個我們用標準局去做correlation就可以了 我們就直接做這個外部跟內部的correlation就可以了"},{"start":15408.863,"end":15411.344,"text":"請張家俊 張家俊 張家俊委員不在 請羅明才 羅明才 羅明才委員不在"},{"start":15439.079,"end":15454.591,"text":"當即發言的委員除了不在場外,其餘的均已發言完畢,詢答結束。 有張家俊委員所提書面質詢列入記錄,刊登公報。 書面質詢及未答覆的部分,請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複資本會。"},{"start":15456.753,"end":15478.592,"text":"各位同仁針對預算案如有修正動議或者是相關的提案請於12月5日星期四下午5時以前送經濟委員會辦公室以立後續的會診,預時不再收案。討論四項所提列的議案,詢答結束,令定期繼續進行審查。"},{"start":15493.635,"end":15494.255,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":15525.959,"end":15529.382,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟部及所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":15552.523,"end":15552.703,"text":"主席"},{"start":15595.825,"end":15596.046,"text":"主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}