{"error":false,"id":["163209"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":163209,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163209","日期":"2025-07-18","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-3-21","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第3會期第21次會議","屆":11,"會期":3,"會次":21,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第3會期第21次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-07-18T12:06:35+08:00","結束時間":"2025-07-18T12:10:05+08:00","影片長度":"00:03:30","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/41a318957b8c3a920542af03e055fe3154375a2e09ecf523c92e257a5f2f2dd82dd89391cbd2639a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳秉叡","委員發言時間":"12:06:35 - 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各位同仁 凌虐兒童非常不可取大家都非常支持要加重處罰所以我們這個草案才會有272條的鎮定對於這個凌虐兒童來故意來殺害這個小孩的話加重他的罪已經有在很清楚的加重的狀況那今天對於這個凌虐兒童每一個黨團我相信都深入痛決"},{"start":31.977,"end":52.9,"text":"不過法律有它的體系我在這個地方要跟大家解釋刑法這個法律它必須在總則有三個概念第一個概念叫做構成要件該不該當是不是跟刑法法定的構成要件一樣第二個是這個行為有沒有違法性第三個叫做罪責"},{"start":54.321,"end":65.553,"text":"什麼叫罪責呢就是他犯了什麼樣的錯得到怎麼樣子的處罰這中間必須是有整體的平良一致的關係"},{"start":68.127,"end":91.178,"text":"殺害 故意殺害小孩這事已經定在272條現在286條在討論的是 泯滅 致小孩子有重傷或是死亡的結果那為什麼跟272條不一樣呢就是因為他這個犯罪的太陽不一樣272條就是直接目的是要殺小孩子"},{"start":93.33,"end":116.437,"text":"這個286條是他的目的是泯滅但是導致小孩致重傷致死亡的這個結果不是這個犯罪人本來他要的那至於說你這個認定怎麼這樣亂認定認定的權利那個是在法院不是我們立法院法院的審判是各個案件進入實體的時候根據證據根據佐證來去採認的結果"},{"start":120.916,"end":141.116,"text":"那現在就是造成一個問題你滅小孩但是後面加了一個你不要的結果是自重傷自死這樣的結果你刑法要放這麼重的時候你跟故意殺害掉那個小孩子之間的那個罪責的分別就會變得很小"},{"start":142.13,"end":164.326,"text":"那這個跟刑法原來的制度是不一樣的我覺得民眾黨的委員不要在這個地方用很民粹的話講啦我舉個例子 法務部並不同意這條86條你們的修正案難道你認為法務部這些人全部都是沒回沒發財都是要害這個孩子嗎絕對不是這樣嘛而是我們討論事情要根據問題的原理來"},{"start":165.367,"end":185.723,"text":"泥虐都有犯罪殺害小孩子罪很重泥虐致死罪也很重但是有沒有必要要把他拉到死刑這個結果這個是可以討論的那如果是這個樣子的話就是基本上要回頭問問看你刑法罪責的概念你在那邊"},{"start":199.985,"end":202.088,"text":"好 謝謝吳秉瑞委員會謝謝吳秉瑞委員會好 謝謝謝謝吳秉瑞委員會"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":875,"blocks":[["吳委員秉叡：（12時6分）主席、各位同仁。凌虐兒童非常不可取，大家都非常支持要加重處罰，所以我們這個草案才會有第二百七十二條之一的增訂，對於凌虐兒童、故意殺害小孩者加重其罪，已經有很清楚的加重狀況。今天對於凌虐兒童，我相信每個黨團都深惡痛絕，不過法律有其體系，我在這個地方要跟大家解釋，刑法這個法律必須在總則有三個概念：第一個概念是構成要件該不該當，是不是跟刑法法定的構成要件一樣；第二個是這個行為有沒有違法性；第三個是罪責，什麼叫罪責呢？就是他犯了什麼樣的錯，得到什麼樣子的處罰，這中間必須有整體評量一致的關係。","故意殺害小孩已經訂定在第二百七十二條之一，現在第二百八十六條在討論的是凌虐小孩子致重傷或死亡的結果，為什麼跟第二百七十二條之一不一樣呢？就是因為其犯罪態樣不一樣，第二百七十二條之一的直接目的是要殺小孩子，而第二百八十六條的目的是凌虐而使小孩致重傷、致死亡的結果，不是犯罪人本來要的。至於你們說這個認定怎麼這樣亂認定，認定的權力是在法院，不是立法院，法院的審判是各個案件進入實體的時候，根據證據、根據佐證去採認的結果。","現在就造成一個問題，他凌虐小孩，但後面加了一個他不要的結果是致重傷、致死，這樣的結果在刑法要放這麼重的時候，跟故意殺害小孩子之間的罪責分別就會變得很小，這個跟刑法原來的制度是不一樣的。我覺得民眾黨的委員不要在這個地方用很民粹的話來講，我舉一個例子，法務部並不同意你們第二百八十六條的修正案，難道你們認為法務部這些人全部都是沒血沒淚，都是要害這些小孩的嗎？絕對不是這樣嘛！而是我們討論事情要根據問題的原理，凌虐都有犯罪，殺害小孩子的罪很重，凌虐致死的罪也很重，但是有沒有必要拉到死刑的結果，這個是可以討論的。如果是這樣子的話，基本上就要回頭問問看刑法罪責的概念，在那邊做這個結果的時候是不是相當？我覺得今天要討論的重點在這個地方，沒有任何一個黨團反對加重對凌虐小孩子的處罰。"],["主席：謝謝吳秉叡委員發言。","我們尊重發言委員的權益，再一次拜託各位委員，各位偉大的政治家，我們保持議場秩序，好不好？謝謝。","接下來我們請馬文君委員發言，莊瑞雄委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":27,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-21","speakers":["韓國瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-07-18"],"gazette_id":"1146604","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146604_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第21次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1146604_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}