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你聽我說啦"},{"start":194.002,"end":204.895,"text":"我不是說我們台電的電一天給你用我是用發電機還是用我的儲能櫃我先送去你那個沒電的地方邊緣的我們那個電是要有主線"},{"start":210.181,"end":233.723,"text":"主線道然後在旁邊有次線道再來有這個到最後的這個一段所以要三段欸我沒有辦法我只有那些人所以我都優先喔那看板高三你現在你這樣在說這是一個方法但是不是啊一個一定很好你把一把機電話聽好把你對保護一個保護商的公司加一把機加一把機整個這個"},{"start":235.945,"end":244.912,"text":"團隊企業會不會欠工藥?不可能,我跟委員講不可能,我們很多增加的電條,是都在產花樓根本就是工程車,要去那裡做很困難所以要救電的時候,那個環境不是讓你一邊就救起來的我們要了解喔,我們不是這個都市或是大條路旁邊,我要調車去"},{"start":265.104,"end":280.421,"text":"整棟會掉下去你說不大條路 瀉條路也有瀉機 其實去研究一下那產花樓你現在說我給你持能貴 我跟你說不一定會成啦因為你還是要送到你們的配電中心裡面將來我們會區域的區域智慧網路"},{"start":285.946,"end":289.57,"text":"區域智慧網路會來處理看你的表現我現在看我現在想到一個問題我們現在兩岸情勢很緊張我看到"},{"start":296.311,"end":316.107,"text":"大陸那邊有一個叫做石墨彈它一發射的話就馬上把你停電了把你電完了你有沒有什麼應變的措施有啊這就是一個台灣啊我就是說你如果說我們比較正確你如果讓我們做光電我光電然後做儲能櫃儲能櫃就可以讓它電可以用啊你說那個整個電廠要用光電來補喔補不夠啦沒有平均啦啦我們"},{"start":329.072,"end":340.063,"text":"報告委員我在這個地方要澄清一件事情我在討論這個光電的事情我希望是可以用科技的用數字的用科學的方法來討論不要說用"},{"start":344.067,"end":367.916,"text":"這個這個這個我跟妳講關電台在講多少妳教學營當然妳考慮對可以補充一部分並不是完全補充我現在就是說讓他們有齁讓他們有照明有照明那可以聰熟反正你們都很行啊剛剛楊成文委員跟妳批評一下妳們不夠努力兩個就吵起來我們要純坤的檢討我們不是我們"},{"start":368.456,"end":390.694,"text":"我沒有跟他吵起來,我只是在說明讓他能夠充分了解只是勾起他的這個...我們現在有一個經濟的大颱風要來了就是那個地方的關稅問題所以我們談的大概是20到25你們怕影響到大包圍案,你們都不講我感覺這有可能"},{"start":393.143,"end":408.178,"text":"大概我們現在談判不是很順利不過以執政黨民進黨個性有稍微進步了已經新聞都打出來功勞很大我不知道這都在你們談判的情形但是我看起來你也沒有笑容我看起來"},{"start":409.099,"end":410.74,"text":"官司的談判大概不怎麼順利"},{"start":439.659,"end":464.111,"text":"我們希望能夠談出一個有競爭力的這樣的一個關稅日本跟韓國的25%也不是最後的一個關稅如果說今天日本跟韓國是25%是最後一個關稅那對我們來講我想我們從32%如果能夠談到這個25%我們也是一個很高興的事情但是我們在講"},{"start":465.571,"end":482.584,"text":"日本跟韓國他們的關稅絕對不是25%我們清楚這個川普的談判的模式模式我知道你現在一定這樣講當然在談判我們台灣到現在還沒有結果我看起來跟台灣跟日本韓國一樣"},{"start":484.085,"end":492.777,"text":"我們都是順超大概是20到25你們不敢講我還要再繼續的努力 繼續的努力請問那個 你是怎麼推論的你也稍微給我們加一下你是怎麼去推論20到25%因為啊"},{"start":500.034,"end":516.065,"text":"日本 韓國 臺灣這都大的一個生操國他們都臺灣了 臺灣還沒有臺灣還是我們有送台積電給他們 他們怕什麼他們沒有嘛我們投資一千六百五十億台幣那裡韓國跟日本都沒有我只有一條你就只是美國 好"},{"start":523.25,"end":543.714,"text":"我就可以很高的保護你現在要把我抬到10到15歲這樣我順便說最後是免關稅啦我比他們更高比日本跟韓國更好的關稅你現在要把我們的談判小組抬到我那裡跟我說我比較有信心希望這就好好的結構出來我可以說是盡量把台灣的經濟繞起來台灣的經濟繞起來就是我經濟保障的機會"},{"start":551.715,"end":573.94,"text":"但是關稅很重要 還有匯率很重要剛剛楊秋風委員講的是實際現在中小企業天天疑心吊膽的剛剛也說明了非常清楚我們對這一次受到關稅可能衝擊的六大產業我們都可以不要折騰 要折騰就好了啦 我就由你來好了啦好 請回座 我再問問農業的陳部長陳部長"},{"start":580.816,"end":592.465,"text":"沒有啊好啊 這樣好了 跟大家介紹重寬 重一步 重試我再講幾件事這次風災的時候我仔細看你們那個溫室 網室那個叫什麼 帳篷那個叫什麼"},{"start":603.607,"end":621.081,"text":"我感覺農業部你們來要有決心彩虹天來的時候每一次一直補償一直補償補償到阿伯想不想教你現在所有要蓋溫室的不管怎麼樣都要那個剛過世的那個那個"},{"start":623.377,"end":638.757,"text":"溫室的那一種去給用起來吧不然這樣賠來賠去每次放台來你也要賠以後的成本會更高要做下定決心我跟委員報告就是溫室有非常多的類型你如果說做業菜類利用剛夠的"},{"start":640.68,"end":656.341,"text":"溫室去種葉菜類那個成本就變得很高啦所以不同的樣他有不同的溫室的模型我要講一下成本會高嘛但是你一次又一次的補償下去阿伯反省成本更高阿伯讓民眾、我們這裡的農民不會擔心我是在研究這個問題"},{"start":657.743,"end":664.848,"text":"風災來天災來 雨再落天的話 誰都沒有辦法影響到你只有溫室熱去改善 風災來就出去不會倒 這是你的責任這叫做任性對 我跟委員報告 就是說這邊的風災因為它是晚上登陸那個風速變大不然如果白天的時候 農民會把那個塑膠布割破"},{"start":682.179,"end":699.018,"text":"那說到這個割破的話,它的那個風場的風力的效應就不會讓整個的溫室倒掉但是因為晚上的風它沒有辦法去鑽好啦,偶爾曉得晚上風啊,人家就在說天有不錯風雨嘛那種最壞的打算,我都沒在,我們來的很好嘛"},{"start":700.94,"end":715.877,"text":"你不能說他晚上突然增加濕度,我把棚子的布去拆掉我覺得要建立不要一直再用補償的方式來寬容互相我絕對同意用這種方式好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":801,"blocks":[["陳委員超明：（11時40分）首先有請郭部長。"],["主席：郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["陳委員超明：部長，這次丹娜絲颱風來襲，剛好遇到漢光演習，剛好遇到全臺灣大罷免案如火如荼地進行，但是我這次看到電線桿整排倒下去，聽說有三千多支，我都替台電擔心，但是我發覺到台電曾董事長及總經理全員都一致，我憑良心講，那個效率、那個服務是做得非常好，所以我今天覺得你這個部長官位能保的話，要感謝董事長、總經理、全體台電人員的努力，你承認這一點嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員的提示。"],["陳委員超明：提示而已，你沒感謝他們？"],["郭部長智輝：颱風第三天我就去拜會工會了，我拜託工會理事長，也跟他謝謝，每一次颱風來臨的時候，工會的同仁都非常努力，所以我都代表去跟他們致謝，當然曾董事長跟王總經理……"],["陳委員超明：你看他們面黃肌瘦，臉有慘色，都笑不出來。"],["郭部長智輝：跟委員報告，我在現場也待了4天，我也有4天在現場，我不是在臺北調度……"],["陳委員超明：好，但是我現在要跟你討論一個問題，一次三千多支倒下，我們一直在說地方國安的韌性，但這樣颱風一來就掃了三千多支，你們沒有想過有什麼新的技術或新的好方法，萬一發生這個情形時要怎麼處理？因為颱風的狀況會跟戰時的狀況一樣，我們要想出一個方法看如何以最快的速度恢復，這是一個考驗，就像你說你們要去檢討以後該如何精進，這點我希望你們能做一個報告來去加強。"],["郭部長智輝：是，報告委員，我們有一個共識，這次結束之後，我們也認為台電一定要對所有的國人說，第二天開始就要有電給你們用。"],["陳委員超明：好，有這個決心很好，但是我看你的報告，你們跟我說要地下化，說到地下化，我的頭就痛，我們想要地下化就要千拜託萬拜託，所以拜託你的報告不要亂寫，你要寫說如果電線桿一次三千支倒掉的話，我不敢講一天啦，三天之內要如何解決？這個方式、技巧最重要啦！你跟我說一天，你有信心嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，那有困難，我說一天……"],["陳委員超明：我是跟你討論……"],["郭部長智輝：不是，我跟你報告，你聽我說，我不是說台電的電一天就給你用，我是用發電機還是儲能櫃，我先送到沒電的地方、邊緣的，我們的電是有一個主線道，然後在旁邊有次線道，再來是最後的一段，所以要三段，但我沒辦法，我只有那些人而已，所以我都是優先給……"],["陳委員超明：你這樣說是一個方法，但是不一定很好，萬一電線桿倒了，你把它包給一個包商公司，這邊一百支、那邊一百支，整個一起做……怎麼樣？是會缺工嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：不可能，我跟委員報告……"],["陳委員超明：你沒做怎麼知道不可能？"],["郭部長智輝：很多鄉下的電線都設在田埂路，工程車要去那邊施作根本就很困難，所以要救電的時候，那個環境不是一次就救得起來。我們要了解，我們不是在都市或是在大馬路旁邊，幾噸的吊車過去就可以吊起來……"],["陳委員超明：好啦，你說不是大馬路，但小條路也有小條路的技術，你去研究一下啦！"],["郭部長智輝：那些都是田埂路，根本沒辦法啦！"],["陳委員超明：你現在說用儲能櫃，我跟你說不一定會成，因為你還是要送到你們的配電中心裡面，你那個線又沒牽過去……"],["郭部長智輝：將來我們有會區域智慧網路，我們會來處理這個事情。"],["陳委員超明：好、好、好，看你的表現，我現在看。我現在想到一個問題，現在兩岸情勢很緊張，我看大陸那邊有一個叫做石墨彈，它一發射的話，就馬上把你停電了，你有沒有什麼應變的措施？"],["郭部長智輝：有啊！"],["陳委員超明：這次一個颱風……"],["郭部長智輝：如果比較鄉下的地方，你給我們做光電，然後做儲能櫃……"],["陳委員超明：沒有啦，我現在在說飛彈，你給我說到光電。"],["郭部長智輝：有儲能櫃就可以讓他有電可以用啊！"],["陳委員超明：對啦！你說整個電停了之後，用光電來補，不夠補啦！唉唷，不要騙小孩啦！"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員……"],["陳委員超明：我是先提醒你。"],["郭部長智輝：我在這個地方要澄清一件事情，我在討論光電的事情，我希望可以用科技的、用數字的、用科學的方法來討論，不要用……"],["陳委員超明：我跟你說，光電裡面占多少，你到時候會用……當然你的考慮是對的，可以補充一部分，但並不是完全補充。"],["郭部長智輝：我現在就是讓他們可以有照明……"],["陳委員超明：你光電裡面……"],["郭部長智輝：有照明，讓他們可以充手機，可以洗澡……"],["陳委員超明：反正你們都很行啦，剛剛楊瓊瓔委員批評一下你們不夠努力，兩個就吵起來了，我們要誠懇地檢討。"],["郭部長智輝：不是，我沒有跟他吵起來，我只是在說明，讓他能夠充分了解，我只是勾起他的……"],["陳委員超明：好，我們現在有一個經濟的大颱風要來了，就是那時候在問的關稅問題，聽說我們談的大概是20%到25%，但你們怕會影響到大罷免案，所以你們都不講。我覺得這有可能耶！感覺我們談判不是很順利，不然以執政黨民進黨的個性，只要稍有進步，新聞就已經播出來說功勞很大，我不知道到底你們談判的情形如何，但是我看你也沒有笑容，看起來關稅的談判大概不怎麼順利。為什麼我們臺灣很重要？我們對美國的出超好像排在第12名，應該要先講，為什麼一直放到後面都不講？是因為談的大概跟日本一樣是25%，跟韓國一樣是25%，所以你們都不敢出聲，有沒有把這個消息掩蓋起來？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們希望能夠談出一個有競爭力的關稅，日本跟韓國的25%也不是最後的一個關稅，如果今天日本跟韓國的25%是最後一個關稅，對我們來講，如果我們能夠從32%談到25%、20%，也是一件很高興的事情。"],["陳委員超明：好，你沒比高反而比低……"],["郭部長智輝：但是我們在講，日本跟韓國的關稅絕對不是25%，我們不清楚川普的談判模式……"],["陳委員超明：模式我知道，你們現在一定會這樣講，當然現在在談判，臺灣到現在還沒有結果，看起來臺灣跟日本、韓國一樣，我們都是順超，大概是20%到25%，你們不敢講：我還要再繼續努力、繼續努力……"],["郭部長智輝：請問委員，你是怎麼推論的，你也稍微教我們一下，你是怎麼去推論20%到25%的？"],["陳委員超明：因為日本、韓國、臺灣都是大的順差國，他們都談完了，臺灣還沒有談完，還是我們有送台積電給他們，他們……"],["郭部長智輝：他們沒有嘛！我們投資了1,650億到那裡，但韓國跟日本都沒有喔！光是這一條，我就可以很高的bargaining power……"],["陳委員超明：你就把美國吃死死的，好！有氣魄。你們如果談到10%到15%，就算你們厲害，最好是免關稅啦！"],["郭部長智輝：我比他們還厲害，如果可以談到比日本跟韓國更好的關稅，委員要幫我們的談判小組鼓掌一下，跟我是沒關係啦！"],["陳委員超明：好、好、好，聽你這樣講，好像很有信心，我希望會有好的結果出來，不然你會漏氣喔！"],["郭部長智輝：我現在就是盡量把臺灣的經濟拉起來，臺灣的經濟拉起來就是我經濟部長的責任。"],["陳委員超明：那是你的責任，但是關稅很重要，還有匯率很重要，剛剛楊瓊瓔委員講的是實際，現在中小企業天天提心吊膽的……"],["郭部長智輝：匯率的辦法，剛剛我也跟楊委員說明得非常清楚了，我們對這一次可能受關稅衝擊的六大產業，我們都給予……"],["陳委員超明：不要賠了夫人又折兵就好，就算你厲害啦！好，請回座。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝。"],["陳委員超明：我要問農業部陳部長。"],["主席：陳部長。"],["陳委員超明：從寬、從優、從速，我再說幾分鐘，這次風災我仔細看溫室、網室的那個叫帳篷，還是什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：塑膠布。"],["陳委員超明：我覺得農業部要有決心，否則每一次颱風來都一直補償，補償了以後成本增加，應該要求現在所有要蓋溫室的，不管怎麼樣，都要蓋強固的鋼構式溫室，不然每次颱風來塑膠布飛來飛去，你們都照樣賠，以後成本會更高，要就下定決心。"],["陳部長駿季：溫室有非常多類型，如果用鋼構的溫室種葉菜類，成本就變得很高，所以不同的樣態有不同的方式跟模型。"],["陳委員超明：我知道成本會提高，但是一次又一次的補償，以後說不定成本更高，要讓這些農民不擔心，我是在研究這個問題，無論颱風、天災來，誰都沒有辦法影響到。只有溫室可以改善……"],["陳部長駿季：我了解。"],["陳委員超明：遇到颱風天颳17級風不會倒，這是你們的責任，這才叫做韌性。"],["陳部長駿季：對，因為這次颱風是晚上登陸風速變大，不然白天農民就會先把塑膠布割破，塑膠布割破的話，風力效應就不會讓整個溫室倒掉。因為是晚上的風，所以沒有辦法去處理。"],["陳委員超明：好，我也曉得是晚上的風，人家說天有不測風雲，我們要用最壞的打算，縱使人不在那邊，你們也要盡力。你不能說是晚上突然增加強度，不然就會把棚子的布拆掉。我覺得要建立其他機制，不要一直用補償的方式，看能不能用強固型？"],["陳部長駿季：我絕對同意用這種方式。"],["陳委員超明：好不好？這稍微研究一下，謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","現在請邱志偉委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":84,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-18","speakers":["謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","邱志偉","林俊憲","郭國文","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林岱樺","陳亭妃","呂玉玲","陳冠廷","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-07-21"],"gazette_id":"1146802","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146802_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長、農業部部長、內政部首長及交通部首長就「丹娜絲颱風及0708豪雨災損及回復\n情形」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146802_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}