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水壓如果不夠都要靠那個抽水摩托所以你停電停水然後我們的電話條款都倒了所以啊 網路訊號 手機訊號 現在都走我們的電話所所以這回倒了這次就是停電停水 又停掉了電信訊號所以造成啊 可能是有史以來最慘重的災情之一啦現在大家都在說 那如何強化"},{"start":46.354,"end":61.648,"text":"我們的電網的韌性 我想這不是供電的問題 是電網的問題如果強化我們電網的韌性 譬如說電纜地下化電纜地下化確實是一個方法 但是我想不是所有的答案"},{"start":63.009,"end":71.311,"text":"這部分我跟董事長討論一下我以前在我選區我們台電也在我的社群就是平安公路台17層這就是台南市的南區 溪丘到返地當中這以前風太大就跳電了因為它的電話條都站在台時機的旁邊颱風一來風很大 電線都要戳斷了電話條沒倒就要戳斷電線"},{"start":92.296,"end":119.53,"text":"所以後來這個地方就跟北澳發就解決這個問題啦那這是2016年我跟我們台電爭取的那時候才六千多萬不過現在恐怕以目前的供料這個會很貴了啦啊這道理在這裡我想董事長跟我們台電的總經理喔你們大概幾乎幾乎都進駐在災區嘛你應該感同身受啦那醫藥要怎麼來強化我們的我們的電網啊我想"},{"start":122.115,"end":130.499,"text":"電纜如果地下化 沿水的地區就不行了是不是這樣 我不定有時間給你答詢 我的意見請你帶回去那邊那個地方 目前可以優先電纜地下化 台北現在有沒有計畫"},{"start":141.075,"end":157.268,"text":"跟委員報告幾個事情第一個事情就是我們主幹線一定要先強化因為大家都用單一的解方就是說認為地下化就可以解決問題但地下化如果我們這些設備被水泡了那個解決問題要更久"},{"start":157.788,"end":178.772,"text":"因為淹水地方 電能地下化更麻煩2018年那個西部海岸淹水那個光是抽水就抽了7、8天那個7、8天以後才來復電那個事情會更麻煩所以我跟委員報告幾個事您剛才講可以地下化的地方可能都是要陸基比較穩定好的道路我們來優先辦理那我們就很確定的來討論我剛剛台10級台19"},{"start":183.513,"end":204.216,"text":"省道啦 省得一波排水 你就做得比較好啦這個保安是不是可以優先來做啦 我覺得台電你應該先規範出可以電腦遞交的地方 你就先做跟委員報告 這一點我們會提啦 因為部長都指示我們要趕快做這件事因為這件事大家都關注 這個需要跨部會一起來處理啦"},{"start":204.756,"end":214.503,"text":"因為交通部也在我其實是因為這個牽涉到省道我們過去有一期的合作經驗我們有沒有辦法怎麼做好這件事因為連電信的我覺得這個是可能可以合作的事"},{"start":219.827,"end":233.436,"text":"不淹水的地方然後又有高壓主線那個主幹管通過的地方要行走啦 要行走地下化啦那這當中當然牽扯到跨部會尤其你省道齁因為你如果對人地下化第一個你要交通維護啦"},{"start":235.497,"end":254.252,"text":"要有交尾的問題嘛對你啊 路面你要再 喔 要再停泊嘛有路權 有施工的問題嘛這些東西你們兩個部位應該要好好的互相協助的啦這樣好不好那另外啦 來 我再請教一下台電啦如果不能地下化的地方啦那應該要強化啦 提高啦 抗風"},{"start":255.453,"end":264.816,"text":"的這個急速啦對謝謝委員啦我覺得這件事情是我們因為地下化要花時間我們在這個因為颱風現在7月就來我們你要先跟委員報告就是說我們現在會再重要的"},{"start":274.68,"end":278.783,"text":"那個主要的那個電感上面因為比方說上面要裝開關就是切換的開關或者是有變壓器的我們會先把它快速的先換成抗風強度比較高的那在一排裡面如果有幾支這種抗風強度更高的鐵塔電感"},{"start":296.317,"end":308.87,"text":"它就可以讓整排導斷的範圍縮小可能一排原來可能20支我們中間如果差了4、5支它就比較不會導斷這麼多這個是我們這幾天跟同仁我們現在緊急在做我們已經準備要緊急採購更強化的電感來做這個"},{"start":316.56,"end":341.156,"text":"類似就是中央隔斷災害擴大的一些工作好 再來喔因為這次的電話條都要2400多元喔那有些倒掉的喔 我也請電電經理去稍早啦你像現在還有一些喔 還沒有移走的喔我知道你現在也缺機具啦 缺人力啦那你要自己去想辦法克服啦要趕快把這個倒下來的電話條趕快去稍早這都看得乾淨啦是 那個"},{"start":341.676,"end":349.124,"text":"大部分都移了 現在在部落裡面還沒移完村落裡面都還沒移你就是先刷大樓啦但是裡面還有很多 我拜託請台電趕快把這些倒塌的電線趕快移走好 謝謝好 謝謝曾董事長另外我來好 部長您先休息我來請農業部陳部長"},{"start":368.3,"end":389.717,"text":"來 董事長這次台南市的風災農業損失是差不多全國最多 差不多全部的四成五百那其中我現在發現 你的農漁業的補助標準沒有一樣你現在一步兩制 你現在農業補你都免限刊 現在也可以開始去公所受理申報 訂訂你現在漁業損失不是這樣 台南也很危險"},{"start":394.864,"end":412.669,"text":"那我現在接到的反應啦 你漁業署免限的條件你覺得沒辦法 怎麼可能呢 幾個人做得到你現在免限的條件 要有水產履歷 產銷履歷還是有天然災害補助金錢救助你今年還沒有啊 有很多人死了對不對 今年有死了也很少啦第三 要有漁業的保險"},{"start":421.933,"end":443.977,"text":"這三個啦 產銷履歷也好啦 漁業保險 不然就是你漁業署要推廣漁業署推廣的績效你自己知道啦 因為很多人有保養很少有 我輸出給你看啦是酒瓣的零啦 是三百餘的蝸 頭髮便宜是五啦吳國瑜的頭髮建築只有一啦我如果請教啦 你在免限竿提這三個條件"},{"start":448.676,"end":466.488,"text":"這可能有一點誤解喔基本上免現幹的時候就是你只要能夠證明你有養殖的事實但是這三個就是說因為這三個在我們的資料庫有很容易就能夠查證啦你所謂的如果這三個條件你達不到"},{"start":470.919,"end":480.524,"text":"沒有 不是因為這三個裡面 我們的資料庫都有所以很容易查到沒有的時候你只要去證明你有財神跟養殖的事實這個你拿 包括你如果有去放羊這個資料拿過來我們會去查證我們先來講一個確定現在有個公所他不受理第一個"},{"start":497.401,"end":498.302,"text":"我也非常同意委員所說的"},{"start":519.881,"end":546.21,"text":"就是說漁業本身我如果是免限刊的話你只要去證明你有養殖的事實那養殖的事實你可以用APP的照相那公所如果願意認定就認定了或者是你剛才拿你因為我剛剛講的那三件我們的資料口都有你只要說你是成交履歷的我馬上調得到資料那你沒有的話你用照片也可以或者是你其他方式證明你有養殖那就可以了那這個部分我想我會再跟公所來溝通"},{"start":548.07,"end":568.98,"text":"好 那就按照部長你所說的另外有一個部分我覺得要留意的就是室內養殖的部分現在你做養殖也有收來的那室內養殖並沒有在我們這次的補償範圍內我是不是請營業署 你看這裡都風災造成的嘛那營業署 你第一邊說的這個部分是不是應該要納進來"},{"start":572.284,"end":589.761,"text":"我覺得這個應該要放進去喔包括一些算是屬於設施啦 養殖的設施那養殖的設施如果農民的話我們一次性的都提高到八成喔這個部分我想我們會來處理好 你應該要把室內養殖也加入好不好是好不要保證喔再給我一分鐘喔那個內政部來董事長"},{"start":596.958,"end":615.774,"text":"委員好市長嘛市長我們現在鄉鎮區就是災後重建喔是我們對民宅啦我們已經開始有你補貼了嘛對今天想說按照你出店補的大小項1萬、5萬、10萬嘛就是6萬到30萬還是30萬以上但是現在災區喔我不知道你有沒有去過現場你有去過現場嗎 災區現場我們署長有去那裡去過現場補貼也去過了"},{"start":627.165,"end":648.762,"text":"我告訴你 你要把這個意見帶回去啦現在民眾非常不滿喔 就是因為在我們在庫每天都要去三合院啦三合院都一個門牌 每天都住幾個月啦 整間一定這樣啦你現在 你所謂破一 依照你生涯的保障 你是都依一個門牌"},{"start":650.185,"end":667.319,"text":"委託委嘛 你要以戶數為單位啦你不能以門牌為單位啦我們會跟移戶...我們是移戶來處理你要以戶數為單位喔?對 我們是移戶來處理你有時候一個...我去縣勘看有一個三合院他住六戶的啦因為有稅電單也能證明嘛有沒有居住四十李幹事或是公訴也都知道嘛這樣有沒有"},{"start":678.708,"end":696.344,"text":"跟委員報告我們基本上就是三合院就是多戶一門牌嘛所以我們是一門牌一戶但是我們還是會以居住適時然後以破損的面積來做計算那做計算的方式我們就是按照破損的面積的狀況六坪到三十坪是五萬標準都一樣啦不然你要以戶數去算啦"},{"start":698.746,"end":707.171,"text":"是,我們會去處理,我們會去處理。你不可以一門白為單位啦,因為他就是一門白的。我們會去處理事實,我們會去處理事實。這部份你要趕快通知,因為現在是公所不受理多戶啦,他還是一門白為單位啦,所以這部份你們中央地方趕快談好。好,我們來了解,我們來了解。今天就叫我們今天這樣收工。"},{"start":719.718,"end":720.359,"text":"現在請郭國文委員做詢答"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":933,"blocks":[["林委員俊憲：（12時2分）感謝主席，本席邀請經濟部郭部長，還有台電曾董事長。"],["主席：郭部長、曾董事長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["林委員俊憲：部長，你也有跑去災區好幾次，我想你應該感受到這次災情那麼慘，其中斷電是一個非常重要的因素，如果停電，這次災區很多地方就會順便停水，因為他們的水壓不夠的話都要靠抽水馬達，所以除了停電、停水，我們的電線桿又都倒了，網路訊號、手機訊號也都走電線杆，所以就一起倒了，這次就是停電、停水又停掉電信訊號，造成可能是有史以來最慘重的災情之一。現在大家都在討論如何強化我們的電網韌性，這次不是供電的問題，是電網的問題，如何強化我們電網的韌性？很多人都提到比如電纜地下化，電纜地下化確實是一個方法，但是我想這不是所有的答案，這部分我是不是跟曾董事長討論一下？還是部長你要……","部長，以前台電曾經在我的選區濱海公路台17線，就是臺南市南區喜樹和灣里當中，這裡以前如果有颱風就會跳電，因為它的電線桿都立在濱海台17的旁邊，颱風一來風很大，電線都會扯斷，電線桿沒倒，電線一樣會扯斷，所以後來這個地方改地下化就解決這個問題，這是2016年我跟台電爭取的，那時候才六千多萬，不過現在以目前的工料來做恐怕會很貴。這次在災區，台電董事長跟總經理大概幾乎都進駐在災區，你應該感同身受，以後要怎麼來強化我們的電網？如果要電纜地下化，淹水的地區就不行，是不是這樣？我不一定有時間給你答詢，但我的意見請你帶回去，第一、不會淹水的地方目前可以優先電纜地下化，台電現在有沒有計畫？"],["曾董事長文生：跟委員報告幾個事情，第一個事情就是我們的主幹線一定要先強護、強化，因為大家都用單一的解方，認為地下化就可以解決問題，但地下化這些設備如果泡水了，解決問題要更久。"],["林委員俊憲：淹水的地方電纜地下化更麻煩。"],["曾董事長文生：2018年西部海岸淹水，光是抽水就抽了7、8天，7、8天以後才來復電，那個事情會更麻煩，所以我跟委員報告幾個事，你剛才講可以地下化的地方可能都是要路基比較穩定、比較好的道路，我們來優先辦理。"],["林委員俊憲：我們就很確定地來討論。"],["曾董事長文生：是。"],["林委員俊憲：比如台17、台19、省道，省道一般的排水一定做得比較好，這個部分是不是可以優先來做？我覺得台電應該先規範出可以電纜地下化的地方要先做。"],["曾董事長文生：跟委員報告，這一點我們會提，部長指示我們要趕快做這件事，因為這件事大家都關注，這個需要跨部會一起來處理，今天交通部也在，因為這牽涉到省道，我們過去有一起合作的經驗，有辦法做好這件事，因為連電信的纜線……"],["林委員俊憲：來，交通部來一下……"],["曾董事長文生：我覺得這是可能可以合作的事。"],["林委員俊憲：第一、不淹水的地方、也有高壓主幹管通過的地方要先做地下化，這當中當然牽扯到跨部會，尤其是省道，因為如果電纜地下化，第一個，你要交通維護，有交維的問題；第二、要挖路面，還要重鋪，有路權、有施工的問題，這都是你們兩個部會應該要好好互相協助的，這樣好不好？另外，我再請教一下台電，如果不能地下化的地方，我們應該要強化、提高抗風的級數。"],["曾董事長文生：對，謝謝委員，我覺得這件事情是我們……因為地下化要花時間，颱風7月就來……"],["林委員俊憲：你們可以先做的就是要提升它抗風的級數，要先來提高。"],["曾董事長文生：我先跟委員報告，我們現在會在重要的、主要的電桿上面，比方說上面要裝開關，就是切換的開關或者是有變壓器的，我們會把它快速先換成抗風強度比較高的，在一排裡面如果有幾支這種抗風強度更高的電桿，就可以讓整排倒斷的範圍縮小，一排原來可能20支，我們中間如果插了4、5支，它就比較不會倒斷這麼多，這個是我們這幾天跟同仁……"],["林委員俊憲：這是台電可以自己做，也可以馬上做的，請台電同仁要先來做。"],["曾董事長文生：我們現在積極在做，而且我們現在已經準備要緊急採購更強化的電桿來做這個，類似就是中央隔斷災害擴大的一些工作。"],["林委員俊憲：好，再來，因為這次電線桿倒了差不多兩千四百多支，有些倒掉的，我也請台電趕快移走，現在還有一些沒有移走的，我知道你現在也缺機具、缺人力，但是你要自己去想辦法克服，把倒下來的電線桿趕快移走，倒了好幾千支。"],["曾董事長文生：是，大部分都移了，現在在部落裡面還沒移完的，我們儘快……"],["林委員俊憲：村落裡面都還沒移，你當然先移走大路的，但裡面還有很多，我拜託你請台電把這些倒塌的電線桿趕快移走，好不好？"],["曾董事長文生：好，謝謝。"],["林委員俊憲：好，謝謝曾董事長，部長，你們先休息。另外，我來請農業部。"],["主席：陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["林委員俊憲：部長，這次臺南市的風災，農業損失差不多是全國最多，占全部的45%，其中我發現你的農漁業補助標準不一樣，你現在一部兩制，農業的部分現在都免現勘，區公所也可以開始受理申報等等，但漁業署不是這樣，臺南也有很多養魚的，我現在接到反映，漁業署免現勘的條件都亂寫，怎麼可能做？幾個人做得到？現在免現勘的條件要有養殖水產物產銷履歷，還要領有漁業天然災害現金救助，你今年也沒有，有哪幾個人領過？對不對？去年有領過的也很少。第三，要有漁業的保險，這三個不管是產銷履歷、漁業保險，這本來就是你漁業署要推廣，但是漁業署推廣的績效你自己知道，現在多少人有保險？很少人有！我拿數字給你看，養石斑魚的投保件數是0件，養虱目魚的投保件數是5件，養吳郭魚的投保件數只有1件。魚塭有好幾千口，現在免現勘要符合這三個條件，根本就不可能嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告一下，這可能有一點誤解，基本上免現勘只要能夠證明你有養殖和災損的事實，就這三個條件來講，因為這三個在我們的資料庫裡面有，很容易就能夠查證，但是你如果說符合這三個……"],["林委員俊憲：如果這三個條件達不到……"],["陳部長駿季：不是的，因為這三個在我們的資料庫裡面都有，所以很容易查到……"],["林委員俊憲：我知道，但很少！"],["陳部長駿季：如果沒有的話，你只要能夠證明你有災損和養殖的事實，包括你有去放養等等，相關資料拿過來，我們都會去查證，只是會比較慢而已。"],["林委員俊憲：我們現在講一個問題，有的公所不受理，如果沒有達到你剛才說的三個條件，我如果用照片……其實現在去現勘是多餘的，死魚早就都撈完了，因為這個會發臭對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["林委員俊憲：所以應該是如果我有拍照存證、我有養殖的事實，你們就要認定了，這樣農業跟漁業才會一致嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：對，我也非常同意委員所說的，就是說漁業本身如果是免現勘的話，你只要證明你有養殖的事實就可以，而養殖的事實你可以用app的照相，公所如果願意認定就認定了，或者是你可以拿……因為我剛才說的三個條件在我們的資料庫裡面都有，你只要說你是產銷履歷的，我馬上調得到資料，如果沒有的話，你用照片也可以，或者是你用其他方式證明你有養殖就可以了。針對這個部分，我會再跟公所溝通。"],["林委員俊憲：好，就按照部長你所說的這樣。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["林委員俊憲：另外，我覺得有一個部分漏掉了，也就是室內養殖的部分，現在魚塭也有室內的，但室內養殖並沒有在這次的補償範圍內，我想請漁業署看一下，這些都是風災造成的嘛！沒關係，雖然漁業署第一次公告時有遺漏，但這個部分是不是應該要納進來？"],["陳部長駿季：我覺得這個應該要放進去，包括一些養殖的設施，關於養殖設施我們一次性的都提高到八成，這個部分我們會來處理。"],["林委員俊憲：應該要把室內養殖也納入，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["林委員俊憲：接下來我想請教內政部。"],["主席：請董次長。"],["董次長建宏：委員好。"],["林委員俊憲：次長，現在行政院的災後重建針對民宅已經開始有補貼了對嗎？"],["董次長建宏：對。"],["林委員俊憲：基本上就是按照屋頂破洞的大小分別補助1萬、5萬或10萬。"],["董次長建宏：就是從6坪到30坪或是30坪以上。"],["林委員俊憲：我不知道你有沒有去過災區現場？你有去過災區現場嗎？"],["董次長建宏：沒有，不過，署長有去過好幾次，部長也去過了。"],["林委員俊憲：但是他們今天都沒來，所以我只好跟你說，請你把本席的意見帶回去。"],["董次長建宏：是。"],["林委員俊憲：現在民眾非常不滿，因為在災區有很多都是三合院，三合院只有一個門牌，但是裡面都住好幾戶，鄉下一定是這樣！現在你們的損害補償都是以門牌為單位，但本席認為應該要以戶數為單位，而不能以門牌為單位。"],["董次長建宏：我們是以戶來處理。"],["林委員俊憲：都以戶數為單位嗎？"],["董次長建宏：對，我們是以戶為單位。"],["林委員俊憲：我昨天去現勘，有一個三合院裡面住了六戶，首先他們有水電單可以證明，至於有沒有居住事實，里幹事或公所也都知道嘛！"],["董次長建宏：跟委員報告，三合院基本上是多戶一門牌，所以我們是一門牌一戶，但我們還是會以居住事實以及破損的面積來計算，有關計算的方式，我們就是按照破損面積的狀況，6坪到30坪是補助5萬，30坪以上……"],["林委員俊憲：標準都一樣，但是你要以戶數下去算。"],["董次長建宏：是，我們會處理。"],["林委員俊憲：你不能以門牌為單位。"],["董次長建宏：當然、當然……"],["林委員俊憲：因為他們就是一個門牌會住好幾戶。"],["董次長建宏：好，我們會以居住事實……"],["林委員俊憲：這樣好不好？這個部分你要趕快通知，因為現在公所不受理多戶，他們還是以門牌為單位。針對這個部分，中央和地方要趕快談好。"],["董次長建宏：好，我們來了解。"],["林委員俊憲：就按照我們今天所講的，應該要以戶數為單位。"],["董次長建宏：我們今天下午會開會來決定這些事情。"],["林委員俊憲：今天剛好有中央跟地方的協調會報嘛！"],["董次長建宏：是。"],["林委員俊憲：這個部分請你在會議上面講清楚，這樣好不好？"],["董次長建宏：好，下午會確定。"],["林委員俊憲：謝謝次長、謝謝主席。"],["董次長建宏：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝，現在請郭國文委員進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":84,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-18","speakers":["謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","邱志偉","林俊憲","郭國文","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林岱樺","陳亭妃","呂玉玲","陳冠廷","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-07-21"],"gazette_id":"1146802","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146802_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長、農業部部長、內政部首長及交通部首長就「丹娜絲颱風及0708豪雨災損及回復\n情形」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146802_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}