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我跟委員報告你給我30秒就好我還負責協調行政院主計總署這個所謂的我們三預算的理由是一件事情決議了以後的結果是另外一件事情接下來"},{"start":300.27,"end":323.717,"text":"特別收入基金可以超支並結算超支並結算也要有經費來源才能夠超支並結算這個112年11月行政院主計總署的報告為了幫你解決這個問題為了幫農民解決問題我想盡辦法找資料喔我都沒有怪你喔我們要往"},{"start":325.213,"end":343.011,"text":"好的方向去争取农民的权益所以我们把这些资料提供给你也就是要帮助农民而且如果从109到111年度特别收入基金就针对"},{"start":345.389,"end":368.046,"text":"農業災害的情況也有超支並結算也有超支並結算我們就往這個方向去努力好不好不過超支並結算也要有經費的來源現在重點就是說我超支並結算過往是用二倍金現在二倍金不能動了我還要再另外找錢不過我要跟委員講就算被動了以後我也想辦法借錢委員來處理"},{"start":370.067,"end":389.955,"text":"你不了解超支並決算沒有關係我非常了解所以我要跟委員超支並決算一定要有經費來源才能做超支並決算請回座你的基金空了嗎完全沒有錢了嗎我的基金所有的基金都有它的科目基金不是一個水庫都可以隨便亂用的請回座"},{"start":393.885,"end":422.099,"text":"不是每個人都會了解這個老公務員也不見得都會了解老公務員真的也都不見得都會了解這個部長這個這個報導當初是為了海上的太陽光電所做的非常大的報導如果大海是一隻狂暴的野獸這主持人說的"},{"start":424.304,"end":452.255,"text":"海上光電廠在這個狂暴的野獸的背上蓋一座太陽城這個我們的董事長打造陳不末的保臉打造陳不末的保臉然後我們經濟部以石油基金的預算"},{"start":454.658,"end":480.854,"text":"一百一十三年度是八千六百多萬一百一十四年度兩千多萬總共一億多的錢請教一下能源署因為這畢竟都是之前核定的跟部長無關除了石油基金補助之外還有其他的科目嗎有沒有其他科目"},{"start":482.708,"end":507.522,"text":"如果還要查的話再順便給我好了好時間的關係然後石油基金收支保管金用辦法規定的也很清楚了這個我們就下次再談然後這個這個是颱風前的的一個照片然後因為丹娜是颱風"},{"start":509.994,"end":525.663,"text":"部長當那是颱風發生之後然後太陽能光電被吹的甚至吹到澎湖都有我一看啊這個當中度颱風啊當那是颱風是中度颱風啊"},{"start":527.793,"end":555.167,"text":"台灣尤其是從屏東上來的颱風哪一個不是從屏東啊從屏東上來之後往台東往花蓮或者是往台灣海峽或者是從屏東然後就往廣東都是一定會經過屏東然後台灣的中度颱風何其多何況台灣的強度颱風"},{"start":558.612,"end":580.813,"text":"何其何其的多所以這個部分我看了也很痛心了因為都是人民的納稅錢然後造成這樣的一個災害真的很痛心然後又不用還貧這只是其中之一如果我們要看其他的"},{"start":583.951,"end":610.667,"text":"其他的都很多你也都看過了我也不講時間的關係我的意見就是說做決策者尤其是公務員尤其是公務員這部長不是你核定的所以在進行這種計畫核定的時候公務員要去思考"},{"start":612.162,"end":631.772,"text":"台湾的气候台风会不可能不知道所以这个部分是一个需要去深思的了好不好我们回去好好检讨这个部分不要再犯这样的一个重要的一个错误好谢谢好谢谢好谢谢"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1179,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（12時38分）主席，有請農業部部長，還有經濟部部長。"],["主席：陳部長、郭部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：陳部長，今天都在談114年度公務預算撥補到農業特別基金，這個預算書寫得很清楚，是因為超思蛋，對不對？原因呢？是因為超思蛋，然後刪減了部分的經費。預算法第二十二條規定，立法院審議刪除或刪減之預算項目及金額，不得動支預備金。但法定經費或經立法院同意者，不在此限；災害防救法規定得很明確，部長，可不可以說它是法定經費？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，天然災害救助基金並不是一個法定預算，所有的基金都不是法定預算，那你剛才講的另外那個災防基金就不一樣。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長，為了農民，我們要想盡辦法去解釋，我當了30年公務員，都是想盡辦法去解釋，為了農民，為了農民，我再講一次，為了農民。我告訴你一個案例，今年114年度中央選舉委員會預算中的選務經費也被刪減，現在搞大罷免是用哪裡的經費？就是行政院的第二預備金，所以可以用行政院的第二預備金，這個部分……"],["陳部長駿季：我還是跟委員說明……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我只是給你方法，我們給你方法，要想盡辦法為農民爭取權益，何況現在都還沒有不足。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，所有資深的委員都非常清楚，所以過往都不會去刪減我們的公務撥補基金，因為他知道一旦刪減以後，我們在動用二備金的時候是非常困難的。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：但是法律規定得很清楚。我們來看這個農業特別收入基金，它下設農業發展基金、漁業發展基金、農產品受進口損害救助基金、林務發展及造林基金，然後接下來就是我們今天談的農業天然災害救助基金還有農村再生基金，所以這個公務預算撥補到這個農業特別收入基金是有好幾個項目，這個提案寫得很清楚，就是為了超思蛋，超思蛋不是在做農業天然災害的救助……"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，委員，你誤會了！"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我沒有誤會，部長，我沒有責怪你喔！"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，它刪減的理由是一件事情，但是它一旦刪減了以後，就會回到預算法第二十二條去處理。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長，我沒有要責怪你……"],["陳部長駿季：我知道。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我們現在是檢討爭取的方向。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：預算被刪了，預算刪了之後還是比去年多，那沒有關係，萬一不足的時候，我們現在爭取解決的途徑，我們現在是在討論，我沒有怪你喔！"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我到現在為止都沒有怪你，連一句怪你的話都沒有吧？"],["陳部長駿季：瞭解。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：所以你不要跟我強辯。"],["陳部長駿季：我只是想要說明清楚而已。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我清楚啦！我剛剛都聽了你的說明。"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，你剛才就誤會了，就是超思蛋……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我們要爭取，我們可以解釋因為那個理由不是針對農業天然災害，所以可以，我們要往這個方向去努力。"],["陳部長駿季：這個沒辦法處理，我跟委員報告，你給我30秒就好……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：如果真的不行，我來負責和行政院主計總處協調。"],["陳部長駿季：不是，我們刪預算的理由是一件事情，決議以後的結果是另外一件事情。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：接下來，特別收入基金可以超支併決算……"],["陳部長駿季：超支併決算也要有經費來源才能夠超支併決算。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：這是112年11月行政院主計總處的報告，我為了幫你解決這個問題，為了幫農民解決問題，我想盡辦法找資料。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我都沒有怪你喔！我們要往好的方向去爭取農民的權益，所以我們把這些資料提供給你，也就是為了要幫助農民，而且從109到111年度特別收入基金針對農業災害的情況也有超支併決算。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我們就往這個方向去努力，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：不過超支併決算也要有經費的來源，現在重點就是……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我清楚啊！"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我們超支併決算在過往是用二備金，現在二備金不能動了，我還要再另外找錢。不過我要跟委員講，就算被凍了以後，我也想辦法借錢，我要來處理。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長，你不了解超支併決算，沒有關係，回去再請同仁……"],["陳部長駿季：我非常了解，所以我要跟委員講……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長，請回座。"],["陳部長駿季：一定要有經費來源才能夠超支併決算。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：請回座。你的基金空了嗎？完全沒有錢了嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我所有的基金都有它的科目，基金不是一個水庫，不是都可以隨便亂用的。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長，請回座。並不是每個人都會了解這個，即使是老公務員也不見得都會了解，老公務員真的也不見得都會了解。","郭部長，當初這個節目為了海上的太陽光電做了一個非常大的報導，主持人說：如果大海是一隻狂暴的野獸，海上光電廠是在這隻狂暴野獸的背上蓋一座太陽城。還有這個公司的董事長說這是「打造沉不沒的堡壘」，然後經濟部以石油基金預算來補助，113年度是八千六百多萬，114年度是兩千多萬，總共是一億多。請教一下能源署，因為這畢竟都是之前核定的，跟部長無關，除了石油基金的補助之外，還有其他的科目嗎？有沒有其他科目？如果你們還要查的話，因為時間的關係，就再把書面給我好了。","然後石油基金收支保管及運用辦法的規定也很清楚，我們就等下次再談。","這是在丹娜絲颱風前的一張照片，部長，在丹娜絲颱風發生之後，太陽能光電被吹毀，甚至被吹到澎湖，我一看發現丹娜絲颱風是中度颱風，以往影響到臺灣的颱風，尤其是從屏東上來的颱風，哪一個不是從屏東上來之後往臺東、往花蓮或者是往臺灣海峽？或者是從屏東然後就往廣東，都一定會經過屏東。然後影響到臺灣的中度颱風何其多，影響臺灣的強度颱風何其何其的多，所以我看了也很痛心，因為這都是人民的納稅錢，然後造成這樣的災害，我真的很痛心，而且這又不用環評。部長，這只是其中之一，如果我們看其他的照片，還有很多的損害，你也都看過了，因為時間的關係，我就不講了。我的意見就是說，身為決策者，尤其是公務員，部長，這不是你核定的，在進行這種計畫核定的時候，公務員要去思考臺灣的氣候，不可能不知道會有颱風，所以這個部分是需要去深思的，好不好？你們回去好好檢討，這個部分不要再犯這樣重大的錯誤。好，謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["主席（鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員代）：我們請召委謝衣鳯質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":84,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-18","speakers":["謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","邱志偉","林俊憲","郭國文","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林岱樺","陳亭妃","呂玉玲","陳冠廷","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-07-21"],"gazette_id":"1146802","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146802_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長、農業部部長、內政部首長及交通部首長就「丹娜絲颱風及0708豪雨災損及回復\n情形」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146802_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}