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21,"end":2692.387,"text":"通過三十案改組決議通過三十一案改組決議通過三十二案測案三十三案文字修正組決議大家有意見嗎?沒意見通過三十四案改組決議有意見嗎?沒有意見我們通過好謝謝顏主委開心謝謝微笑離開謝謝換場好國安部顧部長到了嗎?好謝謝"},{"start":2699.824,"end":2699.844,"text":"好,請換場,謝謝。"},{"start":2715.834,"end":2741.594,"text":"好,謝謝國防部的顧部長,謝謝喔。當部長幾個月工作壓力大喔,走路都變得比較慢了。哈哈哈哈,坐坐坐坐坐。好,熱情歡迎我們國防部顧部長。我們國防部楊次長,熱情歡迎。組織局的謝局長,熱情歡迎,請坐。我們各位黨團幹部,我們進入國防部所使的國軍生產及服務作業基金第一案改組決議,大家有意見嗎?"},{"start":2742.796,"end":2763.661,"text":"委員通過第二案改組決議,通過第三案組決議,通過第四案改組決議,通過第五案組決議,通過第六案組決議,通過第七案組決議,通過第八案組決議,通過第九案組決議,"},{"start":2764.994,"end":2788.965,"text":"通過第十四案改組決議,大家有寶貴意見嗎?沒有意見。通過第十二案文字修正組決議,大家有意見嗎?沒有意見。通過第十三案組決議,通過第十四案改組決議,有意見嗎?沒有意見。通過第十五案簡列三百萬,請王定宇委員請發言。"},{"start":2791.499,"end":2791.719,"text":"國安部請說明"},{"start":2817.956,"end":2824.71,"text":"本案依委員提案辦理,更請委員指導。本項是行政事務管理的服務會,是資訊的部分。以上報告"},{"start":2826.885,"end":2846.617,"text":"我這邊大概補充一下,這個案子是賴氏堡委員針對營改基金的服務費用,這個項目我們編了4655萬,最主要是聘僱人員的薪資以及我們修理跟巡管相關營地的一些相關的費用"},{"start":2848.038,"end":2851.68,"text":"請問一下,你們今年編列4650萬,請問一下到目前為止執行的情況?到目前為止我們的執行大概之前73200萬"},{"start":2874.082,"end":2885.078,"text":"三千兩百萬,對不對?是的所以還有一千四百萬還沒有辦法執行就是十一跟十二月這兩個月要執行那所以三減三百萬有問題嗎?"},{"start":2887.725,"end":2913.216,"text":"到年底的執行率?對阿 沒問題 國安部說明 不用客氣 請說明是 如果說到年度結束 呃 檢列300萬的話目前 按照我們目前來推估 應該是還可以在這個負擔範圍內 但是如果說可以 額度可以所以應該OK啦 就跟昨天的很多的狀況是一樣 他執行不完的 其實還提高你的執行率勒 是不是"},{"start":2916.398,"end":2934.477,"text":"會長各位黨團不同的意見跟國安部的說法我想我們就第15案我們簡列300萬於通過第16案改組決議大家有包括意見嗎?沒意見我們照案通過第17案改組決議有意見嗎?沒意見我們通過照案通過18案改組決議有意見嗎?沒意見照案通過第19案改組決議"},{"start":2935.572,"end":2936.693,"text":"謝謝國安部顧部長,請保持微笑,請離開,謝謝換場。下面請經濟委員會。好,謝謝,謝謝,謝謝大家。好,謝謝啊。"},{"start":2973.574,"end":2973.595,"text":"經濟委員會"},{"start":2993.049,"end":2993.83,"text":"國際發展委員會 劉祖偉農業部陳部長"},{"start":3026.425,"end":3027.867,"text":"公平交易委員會李主委"},{"start":3049.324,"end":3075.275,"text":"各位黨團幹部,我們第一案本期剩餘現在國民黨團賴斯堡為期增列兩議員。各黨團幹部有沒有寶貴意見?沒有意見,好,我們通過。第二案,各項同志並...他們不用說明一下嗎?要說明一下,我們召委在這邊。好,劉主委,請。邱志偉,早幾位要講話嗎?好,我們請劉主委,請。"},{"start":3079.926,"end":3085.372,"text":"關於這一點我們可以遵照辦理。這個事實上在今年3月25號跟4月10號對珍貴國發基金有充分討論"},{"start":3098.342,"end":3120.941,"text":"那組成的這個成員國民黨六席、民黨六席、民黨一席那時候的針對剩餘我們都有達成共識所以我想為什麼這個有六位國民黨的經營委員會的委員都同意那時候都照原列數那突然那時候委員"},{"start":3123.164,"end":3138.232,"text":"對要增列兩億那國安基金是不是國安會是不是真的可以達成這個啊國安會真的可以嗎這個我們會來努力的嘿"},{"start":3139.735,"end":3153.907,"text":"謝謝邱志偉委員的發言我們第一個案我們就針對兩議員謝謝第二案請問各位委員意見有沒有寶貴意見並委員會決議請問各位委員有沒有寶貴意見各項投資沒有意見我們請王虹委員請發言我們請邱志偉委員請回答請"},{"start":3168.24,"end":3185.456,"text":"那時候的召委不是我,那是上位起,但是我一樣可以回答,那時候委員會審查是凍結各項投資一億元,那你現在如果蘇英權委員也同意,國民黨黨團也同意說併委會局域,那我們就按照委員會審查的結論,凍結各項投資一億元。"},{"start":3190.224,"end":3219.211,"text":"理解,就是並凍結各項投資一億元嗎?對!對!對!好的!謝謝!謝謝!第三項,我們兩案,我們就凍結各項投資一億元。我們通過第四案到第十一案,並案處理。有第四案是投資,投融資業務成本,投資業務成本,檢列兩千萬,凍結七千三百零二萬一千元。"},{"start":3221.352,"end":3228.797,"text":"第四案到十一案其實是同樣的本體,針對投資業務成本的相次。我們也希望遵照委員會的決議,因為委員會已經凍結整體的融資"},{"start":3245.928,"end":3257.916,"text":"的業務成本是5%（所以我希望就是就像上面兩項一樣委員會有清楚的凍結數那就並凍然後這些第四到十一應當是一致的處理這樣"},{"start":3260.339,"end":3280.553,"text":"好,謝謝吳思瑤委員發言。麥玉珍委員請發言,邱志文委員請準備。好,謝謝主席。我們的台灣民眾黨45678914,我們是照我們的全數簡列還有其他的就是照我們倡辦的決定處理。沒有變。對。沒錯沒錯。"},{"start":3292.131,"end":3314.835,"text":"對謝謝邱志偉委員請發言這個院長各位同仁我想這個提案基本上似曾相識我都看過提案內容兩位民眾黨的協商代表都不在張其凱在同樣3月25我們經過詢答4月10號逐案處理這個你們提的案子跟3月25提的案子一模一樣我們張其凱也同意"},{"start":3318.786,"end":3343.259,"text":"然後委員會十三個委員、跨黨派都有這個共識我們經過好久的討論也經過詢答這審訊上一切都完備你們有代償委員你去問張熙海委員在不在他在啊他也同意啊那你們提案的內容跟3月20號提案的內容是一模一樣啊那為什麼那時候你們可以同意為什麼突然這個協商的時候突然有你說倉辦倉辦是什麼意思什麼倉辦我立法院有倉辦這個東西啊"},{"start":3350.269,"end":3350.329,"text":"委員會組織法"},{"start":3367.54,"end":3394.741,"text":"而且重點是貴黨還有委員在啊也是一樣提案,提案都沒有變啊為什麼你現在立場又變了好謝謝謝謝邱志偉、麥義正委員請發言王文維請準備好謝謝我們主席齁因為呢我們是委員會審查今天是我們協商嘛對不對我們委員會審查各個委員都可以有意見我們協商就是我們黨團大家一起討論"},{"start":3396.122,"end":3396.262,"text":"以上,謝謝。"},{"start":3423.268,"end":3426.073,"text":"不要擔心,你表現比你們總召好,非常好,加油!"},{"start":3429.4,"end":3458.744,"text":"好 謝謝主席那我想就說我們從第四案到第十一案我們那個也有各個委員的提案比如說我們林思明書記長也有提案那我必須要講就是說在這個預算的這個審查的過程裡面委員會當然非常重要所以我們會尊重委員會但是我們在整個預算審查的程序上本來就應該尊重各委員的提案權嘛"},{"start":3459.364,"end":3471.743,"text":"我想大家都是很資深的委員應該很清楚我們整個預算審查的程序也就是說尊重委員會的一個討論但是我們也要尊重各個委員會各個委員的提案權"},{"start":3475.067,"end":3475.908,"text":"另外,黨團也有提案權"},{"start":3489.741,"end":3491.443,"text":"謝謝王宏威委員的發言請吳世耀委員請發言"},{"start":3513.452,"end":3539.368,"text":"謝謝院長我記得昨天院長在第一天國營事業協商的時候開宗明義的前提就是希望大家如果委員會已經有共識的話尊重委員會的共識這是院長第一個才是這也是符合慣例跟程序經濟委員會我們剛剛的招募已經說明了部分黨派13位委員在經濟委員會共同做出的決議也應當被尊重"},{"start":3540.168,"end":3542.51,"text":"當然我們尊重黨團和個別委員的意見可是剛剛邱昭惠有清楚的說明經過兩天的漫長的討論大家做出來並動5%的共識而今天所謂民眾黨的倡辦提出來再來"},{"start":3556.458,"end":3571.874,"text":"做出修正意見的內容的提案（跟委員會提的案子是一模一樣（您如果有不同的新的意見（那你可以提新生事務來說服大家（您用同樣的理由在委員會討論了兩天（部分黨派的委員獲得共識之後（現在倡辦好大（"},{"start":3578.581,"end":3604.216,"text":"一個倡辦用來推翻了大家的意見齊凱委員到了您也在經濟委員會嘛我們希望倡辦也要尊重齊凱委員然後尊重經濟委員會的委員大家互相尊重如果有新生事物以實質來講內容說服得了大家當然朝野市長可以再談但是每一個提案跟委員會提出來的提案的內容是一模模一樣樣的那這樣不是把委員會新抓東隊增效了嗎我覺得不應該這樣啦"},{"start":3607.117,"end":3614.183,"text":"尊重也是要互相尊重那經濟委員會十三位委員的時間不用尊重嗎?希望維持委員會的決議"},{"start":3623.01,"end":3652.115,"text":"我們就尊重這個委員會審查結果凍結投融資業務5%那我們的病委員會審查決議第十案我們改為主決議請問各位黨團幹部有意見嗎?沒意見好我們通過下一案第十二案簡列兩億五千萬元請問各位黨團幹部有意見嗎?沒意見主席主席好請麥玉珍委員請發言請張啟凱委員請發言我們還是有些意見就保留就好了啦好不好"},{"start":3653.736,"end":3679.701,"text":"你本來要把第四改成那個組結議是不是四到十一啦我們照我們原來的提案那如果大家有任何意見我們就保留好不好繼續寫著我們現在不好意思各位委員團因為我剛才現在進入十二案好不好針對十二案大家有沒有寶貴意見對,剛才我們國民黨團也都尊重了好,就進入十二案有沒有意見有十二案請哪一位委員有意見請吳思亞幹事長請發言"},{"start":3681.161,"end":3710.007,"text":"因為這個案子的就是要請國發會來說明一下因為賴氏堡委員的檢列2.5億其實是蠻高額的所以你們要說明一下到年底你們的執行這一項應當就我所掌握的年底應當會超過95、96%以上嗎那這樣子又要檢列2億5有辦法嗎實際上應當也支出了嗎因為我目前執行率已經是達到72%年底估計會到95所以我們"},{"start":3711.448,"end":3719.736,"text":"會到95%的那個執行率所以你們同意檢列嗎?所以我們是建議因為已經會到95%的這個執行率所以建議改為主決議提書面報告"},{"start":3727.029,"end":3743.713,"text":"好,劉主委發言,請問國民黨團臨時市長幾%?主委你說到現在執行率是多少?應該提到,不是現在,現在是七十幾%對,現在是七十幾%你預估到年底馬上就跳到九十幾%你這個數字也跳得太快了吧"},{"start":3748.342,"end":3769.902,"text":"你24億70幾%這樣子平均一個月才幾億?這個72%是到9月的喔?那9月的執行啊?那你現在現在現在?這個是三項台灣投資台商回台的這個投資台商的三個方案那這個方案因為我們目前我們自己的評估95%是一定會到"},{"start":3771.203,"end":3771.563,"text":"你這麼有把握嗎?"},{"start":3791.465,"end":3802.233,"text":"主席、各部委員請直接說明,國防會不用客氣,請直接說明我們到九月底的執行率是72%那我們到年底預計可以執行到95%換句話說我們的執行數大概是23%"},{"start":3807.822,"end":3808.242,"text":"邱志偉委員,請發言。"},{"start":3824.741,"end":3847.652,"text":"所以每個月每個月大概要付多少錢,所以他只要到九成五、九成七都很正常的,那固定費用,所以他按月按月支出了,所以你現在如果把他又減列兩億,他後面第四季的錢付不出來的,會有這個問題,所以我是建請說是不是我們協商是如果按照原來的版本就這部分就改組決議就好了。"},{"start":3849.699,"end":3853.821,"text":"主席不好意思我還是要打岔我們剛剛的案子剛剛那個第四到十一我們民眾黨團沒有說沒有沒有我們是需要保留阿"},{"start":3873.117,"end":3888.204,"text":"你一直喊尊重院長這是我們黨團的決議啦好不好就先保留了好不好不是因為因為剛才我們已經宣讀通過的時候你宣讀的時候我們有表示異議喔有有沒有沒有一定有啊有你們聽到他在喊"},{"start":3890.009,"end":3909.353,"text":"好不好先保留啦沒關係院長先保留反正到下一輪我們再討論嘛好不好先保留院長已經通過的事情大家都要回頭再來剛剛醫生有舉手要求要保留沒有剛剛非常清楚院長在請示的時候就是病委員會的決議鬥結我怕大家都OK你們沒有發聲啊所以院長才通過的啊過了就過了"},{"start":3918.51,"end":3920.913,"text":"十六、十七、十八是並委員會的決議。"},{"start":3934.227,"end":3946.724,"text":"現在討論十四、十五案。十四案是業務費用、旅運費、國外旅費。這邊是兩百四十萬全數簡列。請問各位黨團剛剛有沒有保個意見?"},{"start":3950.137,"end":3968.254,"text":"委員長,如果如您的裁示,14到18並委員會的決議是總共來服務費用凍結3000萬的話,那我們可以同意。就希望尊重委員會。但如果說有委員不同意的話,我們細項來討論的話,我們可能就有不同的主張。但希望尊重委員會的決議。"},{"start":3969.235,"end":3971.298,"text":"主席王宏威委員主席第15案也要求保留"},{"start":3987.799,"end":4014.569,"text":"第四條保留,吳聖委員請發言我說明一下大家看一下案子這裡呢16、17、18都病委員會決議處理那15案是賴世保委員提檢列2500我想這個國發基金可以說一下也許做得到可以接受現在是14案就是那個旅費的部分那目前為止我也去了解了這個案子的執行應當有執行了這個出國的經費可能是幾十萬你們等一下說明一下"},{"start":4015.229,"end":4040.797,"text":"因為這兩年有一些會議改為視訊所以沒有實際的出國所以在這個出國的旅運費是可以部分來減劣所以說呢14可以部分的減劣以及15案賴世保委員減劣2500那等同於整個14到18就剛好是委員會total凍結服務費用3000萬是合理的所以大家也不需要再保留因為這都是一個合一的數字"},{"start":4041.817,"end":4042.578,"text":"國安會主委,你們現在那個那個旅運費這部分請說明一下好嗎?"},{"start":4058.249,"end":4085.615,"text":"因為我們今年是因為有幾個會議改到這個因為我們過去這種投資我們必須到海外參加投資人的審查跟審核的會議那今年有一些改成線上那我們目前執行了47萬那11月我們還是有一個團要去參加國外的會議這樣子所以我們是建議是不是3減100萬那我們還有一點錢可以把11月的走完"},{"start":4088.72,"end":4116.332,"text":"那個劉主委說檢列一百萬,國發會這邊是可以接受請問那個國民黨團跟台灣民眾黨團有意見嗎?張啟凱委員請發言我們後面的十六、十七這個這個併這個委員會這個結議這個這邊我們是可以接受可是就在十四案這一塊這個要檢列兩百四十萬三千億我們是堅持的好那我們就十四案那個院長"},{"start":4120.202,"end":4138.195,"text":"稍微等一下,大家先不要舉手,先等一下我現在要請大家思考張啓凱委員跟吳世耀委員提的是有一點出入的跟劉珠瑋所回報跟大家回應的是有一點不一樣吳世耀提出你這個總共這邊凍結3000服務這個服務費用3000萬是符合委員會的決議,這是A"},{"start":4142.678,"end":4164.31,"text":"章祺海委員提提第十四案全數簡列是B,但是我們國防會劉志偉所提的說他們同意簡列一百萬,因為他們有一些發生一些旅運業務等等,那國防會這邊可以接受,這是C,A、B、C,請問一下各位黨團幹部現在能不能接受吳世堯的A全數列,如果不能的話現在請表達意見。"},{"start":4165.613,"end":4180.163,"text":"院長,我們是不能接受啦。還有那個檢列100萬那個部分,我要再請劉主委講清楚,就是說他剛才講說他們這個可能最近有一個出國的行程嘛,一個會議要參加。那你確實有沒有去算說,那大概要花多少錢?"},{"start":4181.084,"end":4207.997,"text":"因為我們要去講說你檢列多少,因為全篩是兩百四嘛。如果你出國只要花四十萬的話,那我就要檢列兩百萬啊。他同意就檢列一百。那你現在如果,這有個問題是,如果你全部都不接受,如果全部都不接受,假設你要叫他凍結的話,他再有這個計畫,花減一百也好,減一百二也好,那就變得沒有意義了,你全部都不接受了嘛。如果接受,我們才能往下緊留住,你懂我意思嗎?"},{"start":4208.837,"end":4211.299,"text":"我老人家都聽不見你講什麼,你大聲一點"},{"start":4231.548,"end":4244.625,"text":"我們這個會議主要是因為我們要參加投資人的會議這是確保我們的投資權益那我們在11、12月的時候其實我們還要再出去參加投資人的會議大概還需要在100萬人左右"},{"start":4246.789,"end":4261.858,"text":"他表達出來,他在11月年底再宣100萬,所以劉主委同意他可以接受是減劣100萬,這才有一個邏輯上的問題嘛。民眾黨有意見嗎?減劣100萬還是照你們的保留還是吳斯堯全部保留?"},{"start":4265.82,"end":4266.241,"text":"邱主委委員請發言"},{"start":4279.27,"end":4297.966,"text":"正天才也在,幾乎全員到齊。這個是服務費用底下一筆費用。服務費用底下包括一般服務費用,包括佣金、會費、經理費、手續費,我們不針對細項去處理。因為出國費用,也請他們詳細說明你們要去哪些國家,每一筆都要花多少錢,也經過詳細討論。我不曉得張靚海委員在不在,應該也在了。"},{"start":4303.05,"end":4329.744,"text":"所以那時候經過紛紛討論也請他們說明說你兩百四十萬你怎麼發去哪一些國家那現在已經過了十一月了馬上又要冬至又要吃湯圓了你現在這個又叫他說之前的已經發完了要全部檢列那請怎麼辦已經發完怎麼辦所以當時委員會做這個結論也請他們遵檢之書所以用凍結的方式取代去檢列所以整個服務費用"},{"start":4331.565,"end":4354.381,"text":"整體去做個凍結 針對服務費用 我們凍結三千萬 三千萬的額度不能說少啊讓他們做這個科目之間調整 也請他們提出進進計畫才能解凍 所以經過委員會跨黨派的包括您也在 所以大家充分討論之後我認為啊 不宜在這邊再重新做雙重的標準雙重標準簡稱雙標 謝謝 謝謝那個"},{"start":4360.909,"end":4377.502,"text":"張信凱委員你還要補充發言嗎?國民黨也有意見,民眾黨也有意見,就先保留啦。國民黨團同意剪裂一百萬,如果你沒有意見沒關係,但是我想聽一下吳春成幹事長的意見好不好?因為你們黨團幹部是吳春成,吳幹事長請表達意見好嗎?還是主張我們的保留意見,黨團的意見。"},{"start":4390.745,"end":4420.485,"text":"一個倉辦的主人沒有來然後我們的招委也說明了清楚的審議的過程然後現場國發會的同仁也就這一筆預算已執行以及將執行的合宜的核實數字已經告訴大家大概支出就150萬所以核實來支出編列250萬他們核實支出150萬減列100萬這才叫預算審查司民委員就聽懂他也接受這才是理性審查"},{"start":4421.406,"end":4441.981,"text":"那你們民眾黨的委員在經濟委員會期開委員也參與審議很認真啊那怎麼現在一個倡辦人又不在場然後提了一個提案他不在每一案的保留把我們坐在現場的所有的立委徵效欸把在場所有的官員徵效欸甚至把韓院長徵效欸沒有人這麼大倡辦這麼大審查預算大家理性"},{"start":4447.321,"end":4459.09,"text":"那現在我們都把各種理由說明了,然後你們就是要保留,欸院長這樣也很不給您尊重,對不對?謝謝,好,謝謝吳斯雅委員幹事長的發言,謝謝,萬一蔓越政委員請發言,發言完我們準備休息。好,謝謝我們院長,謝謝我們吳斯雅委員的指導。"},{"start":4466.735,"end":4471.498,"text":"因為我們是在委員會協商或者委員會討論都是各個黨派在委員會裡面所以呢如果你覺得說協商是沒有用的,這樣我們協商幹嘛?就是黨團協商所以啊,所以我們在委員會在協商的時候沒有達成共識我們今天才來黨團協商所以說"},{"start":4492.068,"end":4494.652,"text":"沒錯委員會但是來到這邊要協商還有不一樣的角度不一樣的想法不能說在委員會決定好就算這邊的話就雙標不是這樣子的回答還有第二個聽我講完不要插話"},{"start":4507.911,"end":4512.436,"text":"有禮貌我沒有講話我插話現在你插話阿對所以說你不用拿麥克風我不用拿麥克風不行喔我在講話你就在這邊插嘴我沒有講話阿現在不是在講話嗎所以我講話你才要講好不好"},{"start":4523.328,"end":4523.508,"text":"請表達同意不同意"},{"start":4539.469,"end":4539.549,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":4557.336,"end":4581.495,"text":"但是我們決定後我們也要來討論所以不要去一直在講說上班最大沒有人最大所以我們就要來協商協商到最後我們是要今天我們就是希望說保留讓他們說明我們再來給他通過我們沒有刪減我們沒有寫刪減所以我們希望他要有書面給我們不是只有講而已"},{"start":4582.356,"end":4604.954,"text":"你們這一案是全數檢列,全數檢列就是三件啊。沒錯,但是我們沒有全部這個兩百多萬啊,你們檢說一百萬嘛。所以還有說剛才,剛才有一句齁,你們講的,什麼他們花完了,就怎麼退回來。所以呢,我們現在省二一一四年的,還沒有花的,我們要怎麼去檢。沒錯,我就聽我講完嘛。"},{"start":4608.831,"end":4619.753,"text":"））"},{"start":4620.936,"end":4649.683,"text":"沒錯我們不管這個是我們我們不管怎麼樣現在我們講的是說我們覺得這個我們有意見我們可以提出嘛這是我們的權利啊對不對所以我們省113年欸是說他們花完了我們就沒有權利再講又不能權利再減了嗎所以說不是這樣子的意思嘛看我的眼睛就一定你同意不同意國民黨民進黨他們共同減的一百萬還是要堅持你們黨團的保留"},{"start":4650.103,"end":4651.224,"text":"我們堅持我們黨團的保留謝謝"},{"start":4672.1,"end":4686.558,"text":"二、研商有關〈中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算及綜計部分〉案相關〉案相關〉"},{"start":4690.077,"end":4690.457,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":4716.337,"end":4716.818,"text":"（國民黨黨團提議（"},{"start":4733.929,"end":4752.895,"text":"保留的部分有一種情況就是說他會不會因為營業基金有保留的他會不會再回來再討論一次但是去年就沒有第二輪去年就直接提院會但是提院會對我們是不利的因為舉手舉不贏人家"},{"start":4754.035,"end":4780.196,"text":"所以可能就是說我們希望有第二輪的機會阿現在他們到底是黃國昌堅持還是史克勒堅持不知道啦但是已經執行就是已經執行完畢那確實是要讓他們還是我去跟他們提一下可以嗎他有沒有辦法替黃國昌那種也可以試試看啦也可以試試看啦因為都已經執行了不要過去不要過去對欸欸好像那個那個他已經算去了那個"},{"start":4783.479,"end":4784.88,"text":"委員長上去了"},{"start":4794.286,"end":4803.035,"text":"因為它每年的狀況不一樣,像去年保留就沒有再回來,就提到保留。對,去年就是這樣。對,那你今年直接表決是對福利的喔?對,對,要爭取第二輪。"},{"start":4822.892,"end":4841.186,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":4843.294,"end":4843.935,"text":"第十四案"},{"start":4862.073,"end":4891.163,"text":"因為第十四案他確實是說因為這是113年的預算那我們現在是113年的11月了所以有部分已經動枝了所以我很想要問一下說那在場有沒有組織的人去說明一下那已經動枝的預算那如果還被全數檢列的話他後續的法律效果是怎樣那我想我們在討論預算的時候還是得理性的去面對因為有已經動枝的部分那"},{"start":4892.13,"end":4892.812,"text":"那而且"},{"start":4894.918,"end":4922.636,"text":"對,那15案的部分我們是同意啦那14案的部分我還是覺得要強調一下我們大家在這裡討論預算基本上有來的人就代表黨團嘛那不能夠每次遇到黃國昌委員的提案那民眾黨就要主張保留那變得說我們在這裡大家都在這裡開會變得沒有意義了因為遇到黃國昌的提案就要保留那不就意思說他今天如果沒有來的話我們就"},{"start":4923.416,"end":4929.898,"text":"今天的處理就沒有辦法結束,等耗到明天再等他到。我先謝謝主席,因為我剛剛是要問第15案,現在已經確實保留了。"},{"start":4942.421,"end":4967.531,"text":"那另外呢就是剛才主席的才事我覺得是很明確的就是如果我們有大家還有不同意見的話就先與保留因為否則兩百多萬我們就卡在這邊講那麼久啊那我們都要講到天亮都講不完了好那因為剛才吳斯堯幹事長說十五案他們是同意的所以是不是十五案就與你通過謝謝"},{"start":4979.508,"end":4981.071,"text":"十四案是不是再給國發會說明一下?"},{"start":4993.578,"end":4993.718,"text":"請說明蔡議員的問題,請。"},{"start":5006.83,"end":5011.492,"text":"我們聽到陳副主席長的說明我想我們就針對這個不要再節外生枝了請邱委員"},{"start":5034.822,"end":5056.182,"text":"雖然這個審預算不是我的專業,但是我有經驗,而且有把握原則,相同的標準,從一而終。民眾黨的提案跟今天提案是一模一樣,因為民眾黨不能個別提案,你們每一項預算的刪減、凍結都是用黨團提案,所以我看到的版本跟三月看到的版本是一樣的。"},{"start":5058.284,"end":5084.944,"text":"除非這幾個月情勢大變更（有很大的瑕疵或重大事件發生（你們才可以針對之前的決議（再做不同的決定（但是呢（我們已經同意賴斯堡委員的提案（在服務費用向下（一億多節列兩千五（您同意了嗎（對（所以我要報告主席（服務費用向下（就包括國外旅費了（"},{"start":5086.471,"end":5105.501,"text":"所以國外旅費有包括在服務費用向下服務費用向下已經減了3000萬你現在國外旅費又減但不是一項費用減兩次了嗎既然已經有減劣了好科目你們自行調整嘛對不對這才不會影響到你們整體的這個計畫的執行嘛"},{"start":5109.069,"end":5137.62,"text":"謝謝邱志偉、趙靜雯。好,我們現在不再回頭了。我們現在已經宣讀過四十四案保留、四十五案通過、十六、十七、十八並委會決議。現在進入第十九案主決議。大家有沒有保過意見?沒見通過。二十三案有沒有意見?沒見通過。二十一案主決議有沒有意見?沒見通過。二十二案主決議有沒有意見?沒見通過。二十三案主決議有沒有意見?沒見通過。二十四案主決議有沒有意見?沒見通過。二十五案主決議有沒有意見?沒見通過。二十六案主決議文字修正有沒有意見?"},{"start":5139.913,"end":5166.099,"text":"修正通過,二十七案主決議,文字修正有沒有意見?修正通過,謝謝進入離島建設基金二十八案主決議,大家有沒有意見?沒有意見,通過。二十九案主決議有沒有意見?通過。三十案主決議文字修正,大家有沒有意見?沒有意見,修正通過。三十一案主決議有沒有意見?沒有意見,修正通過。三十二案主決議有沒有意見?沒有意見,修正通過。三十三案主決議文字修正有沒有意見?"},{"start":5167.369,"end":5171.711,"text":"每件修正通過三十四案主決議文字修正有意見嗎?"},{"start":5171.711,"end":5175.933,"text":"每件修正通過三十五案主決議有意見嗎?"},{"start":5175.933,"end":5179.275,"text":"每件修正通過三十六案主決議有意見嗎?"},{"start":5179.275,"end":5187.919,"text":"每件修正通過三十七案我們促進轉型正業減列四百萬請問各位黨團剛有意見嗎?"},{"start":5187.919,"end":5188.179,"text":"吳世永請發言"},{"start":5190.687,"end":5214.161,"text":"謝謝主席我想促轉基金3738我們可以一併來討論那因為事前我也有都跟國發會執行的單位有做過數字的推敲跟研議就他們具體已經執行的項目那3738這個轉型正義的計畫相關的處理很多是給這些平反人的這些權益要給他們或是辦一些人權的活動"},{"start":5215.282,"end":5237.484,"text":"現在已經到10月、11月了。就我所知大概37、38若一併來看的話,大概已經執行的快9乘5了。所以說,如果38案賴氏保委員提案要減8000的話,就會回到剛剛主席處副主席講說的,它已經執行出去了。所以合一的數字大概是1000萬左右。"},{"start":5238.965,"end":5266.403,"text":"如果說還沒有執行完畢的話所以我具體的建議三十八案就核實我們省預算都要核實所以核實的話檢列一千萬應當是合宜的那至於三十七我是希望三七、三八並起來合宜的減一千萬這樣子是民進黨團的主張謝謝吳司長幹事長的發言可以讓他們公務機關來說明一下因為這畢竟是要把你們實際的致用的狀況、項目跟國會說明"},{"start":5269.485,"end":5297.114,"text":"謝謝吳斯亞幹長發言,現在請劉主委請發言這筆這個科目的費用主要是支應到正義轉型有關的補助是由各部會像內政法務文化還有各縣市提出申請然後我們依據這樣去幫助到弱勢的團體跟這個弱勢的民眾也有包括是當年受害者的民眾還有一些相關的展覽的費用那這個費用執行"},{"start":5298.454,"end":5300.575,"text":"以37案來說的話,這個服務費用,現在到目前為止,你們所支用的是多少錢呢?"},{"start":5335.369,"end":5343.871,"text":"報告委員,在第37案目前各部會所編列的執行數截至預估到年底應該可以執行數是150萬。到年底執行數150萬,針對有關服務費用。所以如果刪除400萬的話,還綽綽有疑。是吧?"},{"start":5365.913,"end":5366.133,"text":"臺灣民眾黨團有意見嗎?"},{"start":5387.335,"end":5389.898,"text":"三十八案,也一樣到目前為止,因為你們編列的是"},{"start":5410.837,"end":5437.984,"text":"一共編多少?一億四千四百萬那請問一下你們到目前為止已經執行的金額是多少?報告委員目前到十月底子我們的執行的比率大概是75%將近七千七百萬左右七千七百萬是不是?"},{"start":5440.094,"end":5465.891,"text":"到年底預估可以執行到93%那多少錢呢?執行數嗎?預估到年底的執行數可以到一億三千四百多萬一億三千四百萬 對不對?對那我想請問一下為什麼在短短兩個月它的執行會突然倍數成長呢?"},{"start":5467.469,"end":5495.564,"text":"包括委員因為他的核銷結案都會是放在年底因此多數的錢必須要看到他的成果才能夠給付所以各部會在年底所分配的數額是比較高的往年都是這樣嗎因為你如果按照十月底因為我想既然要這個促進轉型陣營應該是不會到年底才來消耗預算吧往年都是不是消耗預算包括委員"},{"start":5496.024,"end":5524.787,"text":"因為他有一定的執行期間那依照他們的合約就是要到年底的時候完成之後才能夠做好那這樣子齁那具體請請我們那個國發會國發會嗎是吧好來提供就是到年底因為短短兩個月執行將近是十個月的一個金額這樣的執行啊感覺好像有點在趕進度或者消耗預算所以就麻煩保留請他們把這兩個月你們即將執行的來提供資料給我們參考謝謝"},{"start":5526.108,"end":5543.374,"text":"吳淑媛,請發言。我想再確認一下,剛剛的說明是這樣。剛剛國法會同仁說明說這一筆,因為很多是縣市政府或是機關團體申請有關於轉型正義,不管辦人權的或是辦一些公益性的,包括文化展演的部分,所以都是年底來。"},{"start":5543.814,"end":5545.756,"text":"十月執行了七成多,然後到年底十二月執行九成三,這很正常啊?"},{"start":5564.099,"end":5590.672,"text":"這沒有說最後兩個月倍增啊沒有所以我是要再確認一下他剛剛的說明是這樣可能沒有太清楚讓委員沒有聽清楚所以到十月份已經執行了七成多到十二月執行九成三這是合一的就是說在比例上也沒有一個奇奇怪怪的部分那所以我一開始就說這一項因為我做過功課你們大概到年底可以執行我的數字是九成三九成五"},{"start":5591.312,"end":5614.584,"text":"所以可以檢列一千萬我一開始就說這是我們黨團非常務實、核實的我們同時把關人民的荷包同時也讓公務機關去執行必要執行的政務所以檢列一千萬是因為他執行可能有7%沒有執行完所以檢列一千萬真的是一個合一的數字所以如果大家都同意這個合一的數字我們盡量不要"},{"start":5615.558,"end":5615.858,"text":"．國民黨黨團．台灣民眾黨團提議"},{"start":5636.189,"end":5638.791,"text":"委員長,這個預算科目在委員會是照列,因為它的特殊性,大家注意,是捐補助會費"},{"start":5652.841,"end":5676.812,"text":"還有相關補助還有契約旅行的義務還有對各縣市的補助所以為什麼跨黨派針對這項項目幾乎大家都有共識是不能簡列因為它是必要性的支出而且是按月而且大部分是集中在年底為什麼最後兩個月會有比較多的計算支出很多是要按照契約去旅行的規範所以我跟大家講說這個真的是"},{"start":5678.479,"end":5678.679,"text":"主席"},{"start":5730.068,"end":5736.91,"text":"黨團幹部,我們進入三十九案改組決議,有沒有意見?"},{"start":5736.91,"end":5746.333,"text":"有沒有意見?通過。四十三案改組決議?通過。四十一案改組決議?通過。四十二案改組決議?通過。四十三案?"},{"start":5748.337,"end":5776.065,"text":"溝通後改組決議。有沒有意見?沒意見。通過。四十四案、四十五案改為組決議。溝通後已經溝通完畢到四十六案全部改為組決議。有意見嗎?沒意見。通過。四十七案改組決議。溝通過。沒意見。通過。四十八案、四十九案、五十二案、五十一案、五十二案到五十三案經過溝通之後通通改為組決議。各位黨團該沒有意見嗎?沒意見。我們通過。第五十四案改為組決議。"},{"start":5778.103,"end":5803.29,"text":"每一件通過五十五、五十六、五十七請問各位黨團幹部五十五萬凍結百分之五請問各位黨團幹部有意見嗎?每一件吼吳世瑤幹事長請發言是不是可以請中華企業發展基金這邊來說明一下中華企業發展基金的基金用途大家都很清楚"},{"start":5804.508,"end":5805.909,"text":"中小企業基金會請說明"},{"start":5834.468,"end":5852.083,"text":"報告主席,這案子我們有向這個提案的秀委員當面做過報告因為這個相關的有關於投資還有後面的綠色金融等等的都是為了協助中小企業做貸款相關的利息補貼還有相關低的保證手續費的支出所以我們預估的年底的這些執行確實會依據我們的這個計畫來執行"},{"start":5855.786,"end":5884.819,"text":"那特別是在貸款的部分因為現在景氣回升中小企業他或合的這些貸款陸陸續續在跟銀行在借所以這些餘額也會增加所以我們也向委員做說明懇請能夠言語凍結好請邱志偉召委請出言這筆預算是在4月18號巡達5月1號處理主席是楊瓊瑩委員那這筆預算我們也經過這個長時間的討論中小企業他是集中在中南部"},{"start":5886.124,"end":5900.532,"text":"那經濟委員會不管是國民黨或者是民進黨的委員都來自中南部我們對這筆預算非常的重視所以當時的決議就是照例所以我希望說大家是不是體恤中小企業目前啊"},{"start":5903.153,"end":5923.699,"text":"）．反對中小企業的協助．．讓中小企業感受不到政府的溫暖．．讓我們回去選區．．包括國民黨跟民進黨．．回去選區都無法．．．對我們廣大的中小企業去交代．．謝謝協助委員說明．．國民黨團請林思敏委員請說明我想這筆預算．．因為跟這個110年的比較．．其實我們已經增加5億多了．．"},{"start":5929.537,"end":5958.015,"text":"那我剛才聽這個業務單位就說到底今年你現在執行的預算率現在還有多少?你執行率是多少你要講清楚啊請做記者說明目前執行率到十月多少?到十月底我們已經執行了五億六千萬那我們全年的話我們估計還有這個三億會去執行所以全年是要達到八億六千萬的這樣子的一個水準所以現在五億多還有三億多"},{"start":5958.795,"end":5969.066,"text":"所以現在這個提案是說只是凍結5%然後提出專案報告就可以解凍。對,我們覺得說這個是OK的,就可以凍結你還是可以執行的。凍結你5%而已。"},{"start":5975.282,"end":5999.589,"text":"好可以齁好中華企業處接受那我想三個黨團幹部還有意見嗎沒意見好是不是趙院長在昨天有裁示盡量還是用素面報告因為實際上時間上也沒有你很難在盤專案報告尊重提案委員啦他這個尊重提案委員啦好不好OK好"},{"start":6000.643,"end":6028.601,"text":"好,我們五十五萬我們就凍結百分之五,加書面報告五十六萬凍結百分之五,各位有寶貴意見嗎?沒意見?好,中小企業處請發言向院長報告,本案也有向提案委員做完整的一個報告跟說明因為這是推動中小企業的永續融資這個我們今年到目前為止已經做了大概兩千億元所以這樣子的一個優惠貸款我們是希望能夠持續協助中小企業也能夠重視減碳所以這邊"},{"start":6030.582,"end":6045.311,"text":"目前的話是已經執行了有兩億三千多萬所以全年我只要再多個一億所以這個到三億七千萬都是必須要去執行的有跟委員做過詳細的一個報告委員也表示理解"},{"start":6046.451,"end":6047.332,"text":"三億兩千萬嗎?三億七千萬"},{"start":6072.244,"end":6073.204,"text":"國民黨團表達意見,就免以凍結。台灣民眾黨團有意見嗎?"},{"start":6093.358,"end":6121.304,"text":"好,我們本案第五十六案我們就免於五六五七這兩案我們就免於凍結那第五十七案是凍結二十四萬三千我們就免於凍結好,大家有沒意見沒意見通過五十八案文字修正主決有意見嗎?沒意見修正通過五十九案主決有意見嗎?沒意見通過六十案主決有意見嗎?沒意見通過六十一案主決有意見嗎?沒意見通過好,我們進入六十二案改組決議大家有意見嗎?"},{"start":6122.924,"end":6125.747,"text":"每件通過．63案改檢列5%．請問各黨團幹部有沒有意見?"},{"start":6135.086,"end":6155.423,"text":"我們改檢列8560萬元,總共是171200萬,大家有沒有寶貴意見?貨東基金這裡報告一下,因為這個部分一般服務費大概用在我們廚藝的這個能力的這個薪資的部分,那這塊檢列的部分看能不能減少,減少一點,然後讓我們減個500萬,總共大概8500萬,可以檢列個500萬左右。"},{"start":6165.058,"end":6181.79,"text":"請問何後端基金現在還有多少錢?何後端基金的話目前的一般服務費的執行率大概...不是不是我說後端基金現在還有多少錢?今年的話大概編了64億左右那總共還有多少錢?總共大概還有4600億左右"},{"start":6191.898,"end":6198.3,"text":"四千九百億、四千九百億、四千九百億、四千六百億、四千六百億"},{"start":6210.62,"end":6228.25,"text":"這五年來怎麼使用?請你把這個整個使用,這五年來核核端基金怎麼使用?把這個表送到國民黨團來,給各黨團,這是第一個。第二個,再過來,這個13億的3.5%有什麼困難?17億有什麼困難?"},{"start":6235.469,"end":6262.522,"text":"主要是主義的人力的部分,因為這個部分的薪資大概又佔了差不多16億5000萬左右所以17億1200萬,你們現在5%都不能三減就對了?對,薪資的部分對,一般服務費,主要是用在員工的薪資的部分"},{"start":6273.428,"end":6285.438,"text":"國民黨團可以本次依照你們的要求,如果不刪減,把這個17億怎麼使用的細項,送到國民黨團來。副總長他同意減那500萬?不是沒有,細項,這17億怎麼使用的細項,請送到國民黨團來。"},{"start":6293.012,"end":6319.439,"text":"國民黨團現在副總統提出來,他同意全部不檢列但是呢,要把所有的實施的辦法細項,送國民黨團、民進黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團,三個黨團那個,那個經濟部有意見嗎?沒有意見齁,那把所有的資料如期送出,時間我們就在月底之前好不好?10月30號之前,我相信你們計劃都是,手邊資料都現成的好,那侯王宏威幹事長請發言"},{"start":6321.977,"end":6344.65,"text":"提案委員 謝一芬委員請發言63案我剛好聽到那個是不是在討論我的案子我才趕快來的因為我是說中小企業發展基金因為對我問他就算過我要說明一下我有問他他執行的部分到哪裡我有問過你嗎"},{"start":6346.211,"end":6370.761,"text":"因為現在已經是年底了嘛那所以我們當然希望說如果你沒有辦法執行完我動的部分根本就不會就是說超過你可以使用的範圍嘛那我們也知道說如果沒有解凍的話就是他不能超支他還是可以把他今年度的預算用完所以我只是要提醒他應該要重視我提出來的問題是不是"},{"start":6373.288,"end":6376.59,"text":"臺灣民眾黨團有意見嗎?沒有意見,那我們就麻煩臺電把相關資料送三個黨團來參考11月30號之前,我們就解除凍結。"},{"start":6396.226,"end":6409.373,"text":"是解除凍結嗎?現在副總召的意思就是不再檢列了,對不對?就是召列了。我們就召列。好,六十三案、六十四案召列。六十五案檢列四百萬元,大家有意見嗎?"},{"start":6410.849,"end":6416.031,"text":"66案改為主決議66案改為主決議66案改為主決議66案改為主決議66案改為主決議66案改為主決議"},{"start":6439.819,"end":6455.673,"text":"六七六八減列三百萬一併減列三百萬有意見嗎?沒意見好我們通過六十九我們是一樣減列三百萬並在一起大家有意見嗎?六七六八六九"},{"start":6456.294,"end":6460.896,"text":"請大家黨團表達意見。臺電這裡有沒有意見?想請問一下是不是77、72就是一併的減列500萬然後你們項目自行來調節?可以嗎?那就是77、72三個。"},{"start":6486.673,"end":6508.669,"text":"各位黨團幹部七一、七十七、七二,我們共同檢列五百萬元,其他通過,有意見嗎?沒有意見,好,謝謝,通過。我們七十三案該檢列三百萬元,有意見嗎?沒有意見,好,尊教辦也通過。七十四案凍結百分之五,七四、七五、七六,我們就並案審查。"},{"start":6512.15,"end":6538.308,"text":"動輒5% 各位請表達意見動輒5%這個地方太多了是不是我們可以改提書面報告因為這部分其實上除役的這部分包括了有一些一般服務費跟專業服務費主要是用在一些員工的薪資還有核子保房的保安警察的薪資還有一些除役必要的專業服務這一部分是不是可以讓我們提書面報告然後"},{"start":6539.128,"end":6559.704,"text":"五百分之五是兩億四千九百萬,請發言今天這個五百分之五如果貴單位有困難是不是你把今年這個四十九億多四十九億九如何使用所有的細項以及準備使用的細項通通送到三個黨團來"},{"start":6565.869,"end":6589.159,"text":"已經執行的細項,還有準備執行的細項,統統把它送過來。好,謝謝傅昆吉總召的發言。接下來黃宏威,請發言。這個是我提案的啦。那因為同樣的那個賴氏堡委員是刪除兩億喔,剪裂兩億喔。那我這邊是凍結。那因為其實大家都很"},{"start":6592.559,"end":6604.711,"text":"動輒數百分之五因為現在大家都非常關心河山廠的廚藝因為現在一號機組已經宣布廚藝那接下來明年還有二號機組"},{"start":6606.172,"end":6634.491,"text":"那大家現在也關心的包含這個缺電問題AI的這個設置還有運算中心的設置等等之類所以我覺得應該還是由橫河專基金的部分還是應該把相關的資料送到各黨團來然後那我當然支持是需要凍結那其實包含那個賴士寶委員是直接檢列我個人也是支持的所以是不是"},{"start":6635.331,"end":6651.441,"text":"還是請經營部來做一個說明。因為大家關心的就是你們現在整個除役的一個狀況。謝謝王國文委員的發言。但是王國文委員現在意見有一點不太一致。沒關係,麥毓忠委員請發言。"},{"start":6656.611,"end":6669.802,"text":"謝謝主席,因為我看到很多項目都是檢列檢列,我們的經濟部都同意嘛對不對,所以我真的不懂,剛才我們檢列兩百多萬所以說他們沒辦法付,但是現在檢列那麼多他們都花光了,所以說我們是誰付的,所以他們花完了,檢列他們怎麼補回來的"},{"start":6681.053,"end":6685.439,"text":"所以說檢列,為什麼我們檢列就有一件,這樣檢列這樣子的話我們經濟部從哪裡生出來的,是你們給的嗎?所以我覺得我搞不懂嘛,所以你們懂你們要講事啦所以我覺得都是檢列都同體,那我們民眾黨檢列就不一樣"},{"start":6698.055,"end":6702.878,"text":"相互不一樣也是花掉了嘛,是今年的嘛,對不對?當然啦,但是減淚我們也是值得討論,是說去尊重,所以我們要發言就是我們一樣的齁,所以我覺得是都可以減淚,就是我們不管花了還是沒有花,審查的精神就是能花就花,不能花就減淚嘛,不管說你花光了我就不能減淚,啊這個不花光嗎?這個所以他們都沒有花到,所以減淚太少了,還沒花到嘛。"},{"start":6727.89,"end":6728.09,"text":"主席"},{"start":6743.957,"end":6746.358,"text":"請你們最短的時間趕快來報告。報告完就解凍。"},{"start":6771.968,"end":6772.208,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":6782.062,"end":6809.728,"text":"那我們還是凍結?剛剛副總召議員應該是說一樣維持凍五趴,三案凍五趴,然後那個交報告就解凍嘛。好,我們七十四案、七十五案、七十六案,我們就一併凍結百分之五等報告之後,我們再來書面報告之後,我們再來決定。好,謝謝大家。經濟部謝謝郭部長,謝謝各位列席官員,辛苦大家。好,開心、微笑離開,謝謝。"},{"start":6814.829,"end":6815.129,"text":"接下來請農業部"},{"start":6833.147,"end":6859.773,"text":"謝謝熱情歡迎我們農業部的陳部長歡迎您還有農業部各級列席的官員各位黨團幹部我們進入七十七案改組決議大家有意見嗎?沒意見通過七十八案改組決議?通過七十九案改組決議?通過八十案改組決議?通過八十一案改組決議?通過八十二案組決議有意見嗎?沒意見我們通過八十三案組決議文字修正有意見嗎?沒意見修正通過"},{"start":6860.993,"end":6888.945,"text":"八十四案,增列四百萬元。各位黨的幹部有意見嗎?我們遵照辦理。遵照辦理。第八十五案,改檢列兩億元。遵照辦理。好,農業部遵照辦理。八五、八六、八七、八八一起檢列兩億元。各位黨的幹部有意見嗎?沒有意見,我們尊重農業部的意見。我們通過檢列兩億元。八十九案檢列三千萬元,有意見嗎?"},{"start":6891.223,"end":6891.663,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":6911.51,"end":6934.684,"text":"⋯⋯"},{"start":6934.784,"end":6937.006,"text":"就是有關於農發基金下面的產銷調節計畫"},{"start":6959.784,"end":6978.011,"text":"那他最主要做的一些事情就是當我們遇到一些災害或是豐收的時候我們在做這些農產品的產銷調節他不只是只有雞蛋而已那包括現在在處理的虱目魚、鬼頭刀然後之前處理的鳳梨釋迦跟文旦跟柑橘"},{"start":6978.871,"end":7006.532,"text":"都是在這樣的一個產業調節計劃去支應的所以這樣的一個計劃本身的金額本身是在支持我們整個我們農產業遇到一些問題的時候去做調節的所以我們希望說能夠不要剪裂是最好的農業部表達意見希望不要剪裂張企鎬委員請發言蔡議員請準備這個案子主要是全民注重的超思進口蛋的這個弊案我們最近這一兩年"},{"start":7007.682,"end":7010.985,"text":"我請大家看一下,農業發展基金收支管理及應用辦法的第一條為什麼要設這個基金呢?是為了增進農民的福利跟農業發展"},{"start":7031.101,"end":7049.671,"text":"特依農業發展條例第54條第1項的規定設置這個基金請問進口雞蛋有幫助到我們農民有幫助到我們的農業嗎還害我們吃到的壞的這個雞蛋跟這個設定的這個目標根本都是不符的而且出現了很多弊案後來是連北檢都要查連"},{"start":7051.352,"end":7077.385,"text":"監察院都提出很多的這個糾正案我們還成立了調查小組所以我們非常堅持這筆錢一定要減略2億謝謝謝謝張啟康能表達一定要減略2億蔡議員請發言事實上張委員的提案事實上都是在講111年跟112年那那個時候現在檢調也在查那我們現在在處理的是113年就是今年度的這一個產銷調節的基金那我們知道產銷調節這個對農民來說非常的重要"},{"start":7081.007,"end":7083.729,"text":"九十一案保留九十二案檢列一億五千萬請農業部表達意見"},{"start":7106.776,"end":7132.654,"text":"我跟那個院長跟委員報告因為91到94是同一件事情都是在那剛才張委員所提到的這個進口雞蛋的部分那進口雞蛋是在112年這專案計畫的部分那當我去進口雞蛋的時候剛好可以讓我們的整個的蛋積產業去做復養去做復原的動作所以基本上它還是符合我們基金的用途那我們也跟"},{"start":7133.314,"end":7153.009,"text":"委員報告了就是我們的後續的雞蛋我們一定會深刻的檢討包括檢察院的檢討包括這個檢調單位我們也會尊重檢調單位第三個我要重點要說明產料調節的部分並不是只有雞蛋他還有非常多的作物然後我們到年底的時候都已經會超過這樣的一個額度了所以我希望說不要檢"},{"start":7154.17,"end":7170.216,"text":"那現在的預算執行數是51,但是到年底的時候一定超過百分之百,因為我們現在很多產交條件都是到年底才會做核算的動作,那我們預計大概會超過現在的預算數。好,謝謝。各位黨團幹部91929394,我們全數保留,95案我們改組決議通過,請進入96案,大家有意見嗎?有意見通過,97案有意見嗎?"},{"start":7180.677,"end":7184.859,"text":"全委員請不要回頭了,997要有一件嗎?請97要是結合那個91到95一個預算,報告院長,產銷調節計畫是一筆預算,無一多,用四個原因去砍,去檢列,四個人加起來3.7億"},{"start":7203.154,"end":7217.783,"text":"一個產銷條約計畫可以用四個理由去砍預算,砍了減利了3.7億,那所有的工作都不用做了。好,人事部長不要逼迫回顧,我們過了,已經過了,我們保留97案,大家有意見嗎?沒有意見我們改組決議通過98案,有意見嗎?沒有意見改組決議通過99案,有意見嗎?沒有意見改組決議通過100案,組決議有意見嗎?"},{"start":7229.21,"end":7230.391,"text":"主席,一點都不開心欸,你這樣一直轉一直轉根本沒有辦法討論跟對話"},{"start":7260.819,"end":7268.273,"text":"真的是就是這樣一直快轉一直快轉然後大家不能理性的就事論事我是真的一點都開心的不起來啦"},{"start":7269.141,"end":7272.642,"text":"謝謝各位委員請我們現在熱情歡迎公平交易委員會李主任委員熱情歡迎還有列席官員"},{"start":7299.649,"end":7299.81,"text":"財政委員會"},{"start":7345.506,"end":7367.964,"text":"好謝謝我們熱情歡迎金管會彭主委熱情歡迎您第二位是主計處代主任歡迎您第三位陳副主計長再次歡迎好謝謝各位黨團幹部我們進入中央政府對不起這是昨天的我們現在進入第二頁"},{"start":7371.656,"end":7399.452,"text":"第二頁我們金融監督管理局第二頁我們並委員會意見沒有意見的話我們就通過並委員會決議好並委員會決議我們沒有意見我們通過第三案並委員會決議沒意見我們通過第三案並委員會決議沒意見通過第五案並委員會決議通過第六案並委員會決議通過第七案並委員會決議"},{"start":7401.394,"end":7424.975,"text":"通過第八案並委員會決議通過第九案並委員會決議通過第十案並委員會決議通過第十一案組決議沒意見的話我們照案通過第十二案組決議沒意見我們照案通過保險業務發展基金第十三項我們並委員會決議凍結一百萬各位有意見嗎"},{"start":7426.044,"end":7426.064,"text":"並委員會決議"},{"start":7489.946,"end":7518.577,"text":"好謝謝各位黨團幹部我們熱情歡迎中央研究院廖院長熱情歡迎您我們國家發展及科學技術委員會的吳主委熱情歡迎您教育部的鄭部長還不到哈鄭部長熱情歡迎河南委員會的張代理主委還沒到哈文化部的李部長還沒到國立故宮博物院的蕭院長"},{"start":7520.433,"end":7523.167,"text":"還沒到,好,我們一步來,我們先從中央研究院"},{"start":7525.674,"end":7525.854,"text":"我們接下來吳主委"},{"start":7554.455,"end":7578.062,"text":"國家科學發展基金會吳主委請做第六案,該主決有意見嗎?沒意見,通過。第七案,有意見嗎?該主決,通過。第八案,該主決議。通過。第九案,該主決議。通過。第十案,主決議。通過。十一案,主決議。通過。十二案,主決議。通過。我們進入科學園區管理基金第十三案,主決議。沒意見,通過。"},{"start":7580.168,"end":7601.597,"text":"好,謝謝,謝謝吳主席,謝謝您,好,聖誕節快樂接下來請教育部政部長我們第一,教育部政部長請坐,各位大學校長請坐,各位教育部官員請坐"},{"start":7603.956,"end":7624.525,"text":"我們第十五、十四案主決議,清華大學銷務發展基金有意見嗎?沒意見,通過。第四五案有意見嗎?沒意見,通過。十六案,晉能大學有意見嗎?通過。十七案,高雄大學銷務發展基金?通過。十八案,台東大學?通過。十九案,金門大學?"},{"start":7625.506,"end":7641.079,"text":"通過主決議。二十二案,屏東大學主決議通過。十一案,高雄師範大學主決議通過。二十一案,主決議通過。二十二案,雲林科技大學通過。二十三案,改組決議。"},{"start":7643.096,"end":7655.286,"text":"通過。二、四案主決有意見,文字修正有意見嗎?沒意見,修正通過。二十五案改組決議通過。二十六案凍結50%國立海洋科技博物館"},{"start":7658.007,"end":7681.48,"text":"請國立政府長跟國立海洋科技博物館請說明作業基金凍結50%,請表達意見。謝謝院長,我們希望能夠、建議能夠改組決議,因為主要是這個海科館的這個管理跟總務的一個經費,事實上它主要是在這個除了員工的薪水還有水電,因為我們知道水"},{"start":7682.06,"end":7684.583,"text":"謝謝政部長的表達意見。各位黨團幹部,政部長的意思是說能夠改為組決議。"},{"start":7708.461,"end":7735.615,"text":"因為這個辦單委員所提出來那凍結50%那基本上已經到年底那現在你們諮詢率現在到多少?跟委員報告我們在這裡邊我們預算是3044萬那我們全年需要有2979萬到年底這是最保守的一個估計"},{"start":7739.272,"end":7763.502,"text":"請教一下,到10月底,你們已經執行了多少嗎?委員報告已經到90%你確定嗎?確定。好,那這樣子好不好。請你,你們既然已經執行了,是不是啊,你們把這個提交專案報告,我想這不困難嘛。"},{"start":7765.247,"end":7778.553,"text":"因為總計額不大3000萬是不是你們盡快把報告在本週或下週把它提過來好不好是 我想跟委員報告我們可以這個用書面來提跟大院來提交這個書面的報告"},{"start":7779.704,"end":7806.522,"text":"可以可以,我們同意提書面報告好不好?謝謝政部長,我們同意就要一步改書面報告,我們就解除凍結,好不好?好,謝謝大家。26案我們通過改書面報告。27案改組決議。好,通過28案組決議。通過29案組決議,文字修正有意見嗎?沒見修正。通過30案組決議改文字修正,有意見嗎?沒見修正。通過31案文字修正,組決議。"},{"start":7808.573,"end":7821.2,"text":"修正通過三十二案主決議（通過三十三案改組決議（通過三十四案簡列百分之四十媒體政策及業務宣導費（請下一步表達意見。"},{"start":7822.762,"end":7849.689,"text":"跟院長報告,是不是也能夠,三十四案也能夠同意改組決議,主要是因為我們這些媒體政策跟業務的一個宣導,那麼這個補助的單位他是年初的核定,然後他們通常都會在年底才會做一個這個結案的一個處理,所以是不是能夠同意。不過我們黨團剛剛一定會問,您現在到十一月底大概執行,十月底執行了多少,大家一定會問,您就剛剛就先講,對。"},{"start":7852.099,"end":7858.081,"text":"目前是42%,那年底會有74%到年底12月31號預估執行74%好,黨的幹部現在教育部已經把這個比例已經說出來請麥玉珍委員請發言"},{"start":7866.796,"end":7895.863,"text":"謝謝主席我們三十四案因為有提出書面但是沒有達到我們的要求所以我們保留謝謝好,台灣民眾黨表達保留的意見我們本案保留我們進入三十五案改組決議大家有意見嗎?沒意見通過三十六案並委員會決議有意見嗎?沒意見我們並委員會決議三十七案改組決議有意見嗎?通過三十八案改組決議通過三十九案改組決議通過四十案凍結百分之五請交一部表達意見"},{"start":7897.023,"end":7905.172,"text":"跟主席報告這也是因為這都是用來補助各個22個縣市跟各級學校教育的運動團隊的一個信念經會跟參賽運動聯賽的一些相關的一個經會所以"},{"start":7911.656,"end":7920.245,"text":"各縣市跟運動團隊他們通常也都是在年底的時候才會把整個補助跟核銷都一起報到體育署請同意能夠注意改"},{"start":7927.993,"end":7928.354,"text":"因為這個是對於各級學校的這個"},{"start":7954.136,"end":7955.877,"text":"院長,是不是像這一類的提案"},{"start":7983.038,"end":8004.383,"text":"不管是凍結也好、刪減也好,基本上在教育部的部分,現在看到刪減的部分畢竟是少,都是凍結。那凍結的話,教育部當然在現場有做一些說明,但是很簡短。所以說是不是啊,他們能夠提一些書面的東西,比較清楚以後,讓三個黨團都了解以後,我們就給他解凍嘛。"},{"start":8009.702,"end":8035.137,"text":"所以說,基本上碰到這個問題,我就不用每次都發言,好不好?院長就可以才師,就是把細項資料送給...比如說,今年總共補助款有九億多,九億兩千三百萬。好,九億兩千三百萬,運動賽事大家都支持,這不是哪一個政黨的權利?大家都支持,所以不要在這裡講支持不支持運動員。大家都支持運動員,只是對質疑說,他的錢是怎麼用的?"},{"start":8036.378,"end":8056.821,"text":"至於怎麼用的話請部長你把所有的細項送給三個黨團今年你到現在為止你說你一定會用完甚至會招資也都沒有關係招資我們都會給你但是怎麼使用的所有的細項你不是哪些單位哪些事項讓三個黨團很清楚的資料送給我們好不好"},{"start":8057.571,"end":8059.033,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":8075.07,"end":8092.426,"text":"對,我們請最後一步在11月30號本月底之前把相關體育補助的相關資料以及過去進行的等等分送三個黨團來參考,好嗎?好,我們看完書面報告之後我們再來決定是否這個接受,好不好?不是,現在沒有金額問題"},{"start":8097.631,"end":8097.711,"text":"請無事邀請"},{"start":8114.472,"end":8139.999,"text":"不是主席因為程序上程序上如果這個議案我們是要教書面報告報告使得解凍他還是要走程序不是10月底送來就可以解凍如果你要的話那個叫暫保留啊你如果要凍結然後送書面報告解凍還要院會二讀三讀再送回來解凍那個已經很久了所以這個東西不是不是如大家說你送資料來就自動解凍"},{"start":8141.155,"end":8147.42,"text":"那個呃...送資料來還是要那個院會的程序嗎?那還要到幾個月之後啊?"},{"start":8148.317,"end":8154.078,"text":"所以不是我們理解的馬上,所以這是...是,是這個回事啊,醫師可以說明一下?院長,這個保留是因為我們現在都還在協商。我覺得這委員總聽的話不能在這裡亂講。就是,凍結,凍結,有提案凍結,都是國會議員對人民的納稅人所繳出來的錢,做一個很務實的來監督。"},{"start":8179.848,"end":8189.074,"text":"凍結不是一個壞事讓大家能夠把所有的事情看得更清楚所以院長現在不管是暫保留還是保留"},{"start":8190.424,"end":8215.958,"text":"他的資料送來以後我們第二輪再來討論的時候自然就解凍了嘛就沒有這些問題什麼又會二讀三讀沒有這樣的問題嘛所以我的意思就是要講清楚因為如果我們今天在這個案子是已經做成今天的協商決議是凍結5%然後交書面報告使得凍資的這個狀況這個案子就是今天協商結論之後他的程序送書面報告要二讀三讀"},{"start":8216.798,"end":8218.818,"text":"每件通過四十三案組決於文字修正"},{"start":8244.059,"end":8273.402,"text":"沒問題,修正通過四十四案組決議,通過四十五案組決議,通過四十六案組決議,通過四十七案組決議,通過我們進入第四十八案組決議,大家有意見嗎?沒有意見,通過。好,謝謝鄭部長,請下一部官員,請開新聞離開號,謝謝,拜拜,謝謝,聖誕節快樂,好。接下來我們請核能安全委員會張代理主委,好,請坐,歡迎。"},{"start":8279.345,"end":8279.665,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":8300.623,"end":8313.548,"text":"好謝謝熱情歡迎我們文化部李部長我們進入53案簡列30萬元有意見嗎?沒有意見好我們通過54案改組決議每件通過55案改組決議通過56案組決議通過57案改組決議通過58案改組決議通過59案組決議通過60案組決議通過61案組決議"},{"start":8328.666,"end":8340.407,"text":"通過六十二案組決議通過謝謝李部長好謝謝椅子還沒有坐熱就要回去了拜拜謝謝啊國立故宮博物院蕭院長好請坐"},{"start":8345.029,"end":8371.48,"text":"各位黨團幹部,第六十三案,國立故宮博物院,我們六十三案併委會決議,有意見嗎?沒意見,通過。六十四案併委會決議,通過。六十五案主決議,有意見嗎?沒意見,通過。謝謝,蕭院長。好,開心,開心,開心,好,開心,謝謝。好,辛苦,辛苦,好,辛苦。好,大家休息五分鐘,謝謝。"},{"start":8379.521,"end":8391.766,"text":"拜祥,你等一下給院長先看一下原來我們寫下的東西。你忙嘛,回去啦,不用再打招呼了。OK,院長知道嗎?行政院長知道嗎?"},{"start":9014.854,"end":9041.882,"text":"好,謝謝,謝謝各位黨團幹部,我們熱,我們現在來歡迎一下,我們交通部陳部長,熱情歡迎,好,謝謝,好,張處長,會計處,好,謝謝,請坐,謝謝我們交通部所有的列席的官員,謝謝,我們現在進入民航作業基金第一案,改組決議,每一通過下一案,第二案,有沒有意見,沒意見,通過第三案,"},{"start":9043.14,"end":9064.689,"text":"改增列五百萬元國道公路建設管理基金,大家有沒有意見?增列五百萬,沒有意見,好,通過第四案改組決議,沒意見,通過第五案書面報告,凍結二十分之三,凍結十九億三千五百七十九萬,"},{"start":9067.842,"end":9094.92,"text":"請問各位黨團幹部有沒有意見那我們就補書面報告我們通過第六案凍結二十分之一百分之五四億一千五百萬改書面報告有沒有補充書面報告大家有沒有補過意見沒有意見好通過書面報告第七案改組決有沒有意見沒有意見通過第八案書面報告凍結百分之五大家有沒有補過意見"},{"start":9096.566,"end":9125.063,"text":"我們就補書面報告第九案改組決議沒意見沒意見通過第十案凍結百分之五補充書面報告大家沒意見沒意見好補充書面報告第十一案簡列一百萬大家沒意見沒意見通過第十二案組決議沒意見沒意見通過第十三案組決議文字修正沒意見修正通過第十四案"},{"start":9126.084,"end":9147.765,"text":"主決議 文字修正 沒意見 修正通過第十五案 主決議 沒意見 沒意見第十六案 鐵道發展基金改凍結三百萬書面報告 補充書面報告 沒意見 沒意見 通過第十七案 主決議 文字修正 沒意見 修正通過第十八案 主決議 沒意見 沒意見 通過第十九案"},{"start":9149.281,"end":9177.809,"text":"主決議文字修正沒意見沒意見修正通過二十案主決議沒意見沒意見通過第四觀光發展基金第二十一案改增列五千萬元二十一項有沒有意見沒意見通過二十二案增加補列書面報告凍結一百萬元沒意見沒意見補充書面報告通過二十三案改組決議通過二十四案凍結三百萬元加書面報告"},{"start":9179.141,"end":9185.997,"text":"大家沒意見?沒意見,通過。二十五案,簡列兩千萬元,凍結百分之十。請吳思瑤幹場發言。"},{"start":9188.981,"end":9211.783,"text":"謝謝院長因為從剛剛進入交通部門其實大家可以發現各黨的委員我們基本上要嘛就是尊重委員會審查的結果要嘛就是即便個別委員在協商的期間還是提出他個別的提案但是也看到行政部門努力去做溝通溝通協調的結果我們到現在基本上都是支持跟同意的我希望大家就是在這個原則上"},{"start":9213.104,"end":9240.669,"text":"那為什麼二十五案特別要提出來說明跟報告因為大家可以發現這裡是溝通未果的那為什麼溝通未果這一定有它難以執行的部分就這個業務發展費是要來推廣我們的穩定旅宿服務量能的相關經費就交通委員會審查的結果我們的召委陳素月召委也在這裡就委員會審查的結果大家朝野的一致的共識是凍結五百萬"},{"start":9242.429,"end":9270.497,"text":"但是呢今天在協商的會場民眾黨黨團又是倡辦黃國昌委員又提案了那他希望他個人希望能夠再減裂兩千萬之外還要再凍結三億四千萬我想這個已經到年底了我也去了解這個項目的執行應當幾乎是破百分之九十八、百分之九十九的執行率吧等一下可以請我們的觀光署這邊來說明"},{"start":9271.577,"end":9296.21,"text":"所以就...等一下院長我還沒有講啊院長不用急啊我們又沒有趕投胎對不對我們省預算那是不是可以就這個議案的執行率而且我認為大家都關心觀光業要提振我們對於旅宿的擴大的服務量能的提升我們朝野一定都支持要不然還做不夠的那真的不能立委自己一個人提案"},{"start":9299.591,"end":9308.214,"text":"所以給您機會好好來說明委員會的部分這一項是多少到底是動500動1200因為它不同的項次動500、動200、動500總共是三個項目的針對精準課員開拓計畫是動500萬然後針對專業服務費及推轉費在新籍旅館的部分是動200萬"},{"start":9324.719,"end":9349.027,"text":"所以委員會的審查針對不同的細項有不同的凍結項目我相信是經過交通委員會非常專業嚴謹的審查所以是不是能夠遵照委員會的共同結論凍結一千兩百萬的這個部分來執行請讓我們交通部觀光署來說明五四要委員您說完了嗎?好,請觀光署做出講說明觀光署請稍待,請傅昆吉總統說報告一下,謝謝"},{"start":9351.206,"end":9368.916,"text":"因為今年審查我們的總預算114年總預算已經到三兆四千多億這個部長我們整體的觀光做得怎麼樣你應該很清楚我們外來觀光客幾乎是整個"},{"start":9370.723,"end":9398.569,"text":"整個東亞以及東南亞國家裡面最落後的一個指標所以本席倒是蠻希望我們的觀光做得起來尤其當執政黨抵制入客的時候要怎麼樣去補把入客的客源補進來不能讓觀光署沒有武器嘛那一個國家一個國家3到4千億的總預算如果推觀光只有34億"},{"start":9401.403,"end":9427.54,"text":"所以要推觀光是假的只是一個騙局而已看一下人家國家的觀光帶來多少國家的收益百功百業所以現在我們希望交通部對於觀光推展的預算是不是34億就足夠你可能要跟卓院長要好好去商量一下跟國防會要好好商量一下如果說"},{"start":9429.506,"end":9453.726,"text":"陳部長你就職以後我們的觀光一直低迷不振我們的國際觀光一直低迷不振我們到底的對策是什麼要請交通部馬上提出來你的預算到底夠不夠那現在對於說這個凍結10%的這個事情我想我們今天協商在這裡一貫的做法一貫的做法就是"},{"start":9455.525,"end":9479.353,"text":"請把今年到現在為止執行的細項以及執行的細項以及要準備執行的細項通通列清楚不住哪一個政府哪一個社團哪一個協會哪一個單位送到立法院來我們就在第二輪討論的時候因為這是第一輪第二輪討論的時候那個就應該啦你的資料明確送來的話各黨團認為沒有問題的話應該就沒有所謂的凍結案的發生"},{"start":9484.366,"end":9507.531,"text":"現在各部會大概我們基本上會照這個方式來進行所以希望說我們在協商的時候交通不了各部會都一樣大家如果都了解我們現在是這樣進行的話也可以讓院長省很多的時間讓我們速度能夠加快第一個今年到現在為止實行的矽項到底是多少錢第二個這樣的金額就可以推展台灣的觀光嗎"},{"start":9510.163,"end":9536.89,"text":"數字可以改善嗎?你如果說可以,那沒有問題,我們就看明年第一季的觀光客是怎麼樣,我們就會來檢討。好不好,謝謝。好,謝謝傅昆吉總召的發言。接下來,我們先請觀光署署長報告完畢之後,我們再請不同的委員發言,好不好?我們先請周署長,針對吳世耀委員提檢列一千兩百萬,我們現在民眾黨團,"},{"start":9538.391,"end":9552.972,"text":"動輒一千兩百萬．民眾黨團提議．列兩千萬．復婚期總召希望到現在為止十一月底．我們觀光署在這個項目所支出的費用多少．以及整體的經費夠否．請先回答之後．再請兩位委員發言請"},{"start":9555.526,"end":9581.137,"text":"謝謝主席跟各位委員的關心我想特別報告一下所有的觀光的費用推出其實有兩個部分一個公務預算一個是基金預算那今天的這個部分的基金預算的部分我們其實在三十四年裡面還包括了我們海外的16個辦事處那麼也希望能夠提升國內疫情之後的旅宿的品質"},{"start":9582.395,"end":9592.892,"text":"所以在交通委員會特別做報告的時候其實有三個部分他希望我們在做斟酌的就是我們希望能夠提升這個旅宿的部分能夠跟"},{"start":9594.426,"end":9612.542,"text":"環境部希望能夠減速這個部分能夠做結合所以我們也持續的在推動所以這個五百萬跟兩百萬重點在這裡另外的是海外的五百萬的推展費所以這個部分也特別希望大家能夠支持那所以當時在交通委員會的時候這個項目是凍結一千兩百萬"},{"start":9615.069,"end":9629.714,"text":"那麼黃委員也特別提到他是希望能夠更能夠督促我們但是我們因為是海外的計畫都在推動了所以我們的預算的執行剩下第四季要去付款"},{"start":9631.13,"end":9647.223,"text":"例如說大家看到我們五月推出了台灣這個3.0版的Wave of Wonder就是希望能夠把台灣的魅力能夠推展出去所以這個像Time Square或者是倫敦的這個地鐵這些費用都在推展費裡面"},{"start":9648.524,"end":9671.23,"text":"而我們也跟各位報告一下觀光署成立的時候是去年的9月我們預算執行的時候是觀光局時代的預算也希望各位委員能夠支持我們在114年度的時候是以觀光署的這樣子一個規模來做推展那當然所有的預算都是在各位的督促之下我們是完全是"},{"start":9671.75,"end":9683.163,"text":"公平公正公開的方式在推動也希望各位委員能夠支持在113年度最後這一筆預算能夠來推動特別以上的補充跟請求"},{"start":9688.615,"end":9716.991,"text":"我想首先第一點我特別要強調倉辦不是個人是台灣民眾黨的黨團提出來的東西所以我必須要跟各位更正跟報告說明第一個因為我們檢列的部分這個所有34億檢列兩千萬並非是很多那另外凍結的部分我也同意副總召國民黨副總召所講把他寫的列的清清楚楚還有第二輪"},{"start":9718.072,"end":9744.472,"text":"所以我們還是認為如果沒有交集就保留吧好李坤臣委員請發言你發言完畢之後我就要處理簽好謝謝院長這倉辦不是我們講的倉辦是你們這一個脈力爭委員所講的那這個其實如果按照剛剛這個國民黨副總召的說法其實30億、34億其實都還不夠都還不夠那這個不能說你既要馬而好又要馬而不吃草"},{"start":9744.952,"end":9748.694,"text":"謝謝李崑禎委。顯然三個黨團對本25案有不同意見,本案保留,我們進入26案。"},{"start":9766.823,"end":9771.407,"text":"二十六個案請問簡列一千兩百萬大家有沒有意見?沒有意見我們"},{"start":9795.646,"end":9812.028,"text":"二十六項沒有意見我們就簡列一千兩百萬我們通過二十七項主決議通過二十八項主決議通過二十九項主決議通過三十二項主決議通過第三十一項主決議通過三十二項主決議通過第五大類"},{"start":9813.109,"end":9834.311,"text":"台鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金,我們第三十三案改組決議,大家有沒有寶貴意見?沒意見,通過。好,我們進入三十四案,特別收入基金,航港建設基金,第三十四案增列兩百二十萬,有沒有意見?沒意見,通過三十五案改組決議。"},{"start":9835.677,"end":9862.47,"text":"通過36案主決議通過37案主決議通過38案主決議通過好謝謝謝謝我們交通部陳部長各位列席官員好微笑離開謝謝接下來通訊傳播監督基金我們請國家通訊傳播委員會代理主委翁主委請坐"},{"start":9867.267,"end":9892.599,"text":"我們謝謝我們第39案報告院長那個我們通常會有修正文字的一些資料是否現場可以分發當然可以請請請謝謝好你先分發你一面分發我一面徵詢各黨團幹部的意見第39案凍結百分之二十一億零三百二十七萬"},{"start":9894.145,"end":9921.28,"text":"國民黨團曾經為所提出請問各位黨團幹部有沒有意見有請吳思瑤幹事長請發言因為這一項現在才剛發下來凍結百分之二十那凍結百分之二十非常高就一億多沒有辦法執行那現在年底了我在想顯然也已經執行了過大部分了所以做成一個過當的凍結完全沒有辦法在預算的程序上來進行"},{"start":9922.621,"end":9925.903,"text":"我們通過第四十案簡列二分之一兩百四十七萬各位黨團幹部有沒有寶貴意見"},{"start":9944.505,"end":9959.66,"text":"請吳思瑤幹事長請發言同樣的齁,495萬,那減練了二分之一,就是一半沒有辦法去支用那因為已經11月底了嘛,同樣的問題,你們已經執行了多少?那這個部分該怎麼處理?"},{"start":9962.614,"end":9977.239,"text":"我再補充一下,可能請大家要大家節省時間,這個白色的已經是最新的,改動節50萬元啦,應該還好吧,只有最新的只要台灣民眾黨提出來,變成50萬,所以這個OK嗎?好,我們同意改動節啊,沒問題啊"},{"start":9989.023,"end":10015.575,"text":"同意凍結五十萬元,我們進入謝謝,我們通過凍結五十萬元。剛剛我說的是四十萬,四十案,對不起。對,我就是四十案啊。虛改凍結五十萬元,OK吼?對,對,對,他OK了,現在可以接受。我們進入四十一案,凍結五十萬元,增加書面報告,請問大家沒意見?沒意見。沒意見,通過。四十二案,凍結五十萬,增加書面報告,有沒有意見?"},{"start":10017.475,"end":10027.199,"text":"每件通過43案凍結50萬元書面報告。每件通過43案檢... 44案,我們建議而已,但是我們這邊要建議。好,主席,我們40案。"},{"start":10036.617,"end":10046.864,"text":"對,因為這個影印本這邊他們改叫說改凍結50萬但是我們沒有任何的委員簽名這個是還沒有改之前的"},{"start":10048.106,"end":10058.495,"text":"對,但是這個影印我們也沒有看到任何人改後簽名,沒有,事實案,事實案,事實案,正本我們沒有看到,這個是我們在修的時候簽的,後面他們花在修的沒有簽名,所以"},{"start":10070.586,"end":10070.706,"text":"韓國瑜委員"},{"start":10092.722,"end":10118.916,"text":"這個因為我們總召求證起來他沒有簽這個名那這個又是影印本如果這些未經我們黨團而用其他的東西去把凍檢列百分之五十然後去把它改為其他的文字這個事態嚴重所以拜託院長把它查清楚正本拿出來如果是正本拿出來就沒法好不好"},{"start":10120.157,"end":10140.378,"text":"報告院長,我們可以說明,NCC可以說明,報告院長,剛才就是我們主委有提示,剛才我們翁代理主委有請示院長可不可以把我們NCC的建議修正文字發放給大家,所以這個白色這一份是NCC建議修正文字的版本,"},{"start":10143.46,"end":10144.841,"text":"建議保留"},{"start":10165.031,"end":10187.468,"text":"沒有一個人要偽造,不要講這些偽造文書好不好,人家寫得很清楚是修正文字人家建議修正文字,講話沒有人在偽造文書好不好不好意思喔,來不好意思,我想因為我們這個每個案子都很重要所以我想確定一下,你們發過來因為一般來講,發下來就是你們已經經過溝通過"},{"start":10191.511,"end":10216.285,"text":"然後你上面還有簽名還有這個黨團蓋章所以請NCC說明清楚好嗎NCC請補充說明溝通過的已經送交委會了那我們這個部分是剛才跟院長報告我們是還沒有溝通完你們的期待我知道你們的希望我瞭解這完全是一個誤會我們先定性這個事情是完全一個誤會"},{"start":10217.005,"end":10219.006,"text":"主席對不起主席對不起主席對不起因為他這個是從39案開始我們從39案開始"},{"start":10236.65,"end":10243.653,"text":"三九四十保留,我們進入四十四案。四十四案簡列一百萬科目自行調整,請問各位黨團幹部有沒有意見?沒有意見,好,我們簡列一百萬。"},{"start":10261.087,"end":10282.532,"text":"第四十五案改組結議,有沒有意見?沒意見,通過。四十六案沒意見。凍結,十分之一百分之五。請問,好,蔡議員,請發言。那我想這一案是不是還是讓這個,這個NCC是不是先說明一下。請翁主委說明。欸,巴,巴院長,這是不是可以建議改組結議?"},{"start":10288.457,"end":10307.051,"text":"這個案子因為民事的那個我們已經處分9件總共處分了320萬那其中違反事實查證的有6件違反那個風氣兩署的有3件那另外違反個資法的也處罰2件所以說這個案子民事的案子我們已經處罰了320萬是不是建議可以改組決議"},{"start":10310.754,"end":10331.787,"text":"好,請王國文委員,請發言,您是第二位我想剛才那個副總召也有談到就是我們一個處理的一個原則就是先請他們提出書面報告,我們再二輪處理,先請保留,謝謝好,本案保留,請NCC提供書面報告第47案測案,48案測案,49案測案,50案簡列150萬科目自行調整各位黨團剛剛沒有意見嗎?"},{"start":10338.331,"end":10363.206,"text":"每件通過。51案撤案。52案撤案。53案撤案。54案凍結。二分之一五百萬元。二分之一凍結兩百五十萬元。NCCN組委請說明。報告。報告院長。這個案子的話是不是可以建議改組決議?因為這個案子已經執行到年底已經幾乎那個預算都執行了。"},{"start":10364.546,"end":10365.887,"text":"五十六案凍結一百萬元"},{"start":10388.493,"end":10399.835,"text":"還有加書面報告有意見嗎?改書面報告好改書面報告我們就通過57案凍結10分之1、10%請問各位黨團幹部有意見嗎?請NCC翁主委請再度說明報告我們有跟廖委員報告他是同意建議改那個組決議"},{"start":10413.53,"end":10435.665,"text":"因為現在沒有廖委員的書面的資料,所以我們不好意思,我們必須要謹慎,好嗎?因為沒看到他書面。請蔡議員、蘇議長,請發言。如果照這個主委所說的是廖委員有同意的話,那我們這一案是不是也是先保留,好不好?先保留。"},{"start":10442.802,"end":10465.961,"text":"五十七案保留,我們現在進入五十八案,檢列一百萬元科目自行調整,大家有意見嗎?沒意見,通過。五十九案改組決議,通過。六十案凍結百分之五。請問各位黨團幹部有意見嗎?發言長,這個案子是不是一樣可以我們再跟廖偉...廖偉...六十案保留,我們等..."},{"start":10466.661,"end":10490.895,"text":"NCC跟提案委員溝通之後再處理。61案凍結5%成績委員提案。NCC主委請說明。報告院長,這個案子是不是可以改組決議?我們會再去溝通。好,本案有黨團提出保留,到時候我們再來處理。我們進入62案改凍結1%"},{"start":10497.021,"end":10518.201,"text":"補充書面報告,大家有沒有意見?請蔡議員請發言因為剛剛這個主委說有一些要再溝通可是我想要問一下說這個再溝通的中間有沒有狀況是事實上你們執行到10月到現在的時候事實上已經執行了差不多了那如果已經執行了差不多了也不用溝通你就提出一個"},{"start":10518.801,"end":10522.842,"text":"六十三案法制業務凍結百分之五十,凍結一百二十四萬。各位黨團幹部有沒有寶貴意見?NCC翁族有沒有意見?"},{"start":10549.715,"end":10552.903,"text":"報告院長,這個案子是不是也可以改成主決議?"},{"start":10558.379,"end":10584.955,"text":"那各位黨團幹部針對翁主委的說明,請吳春城委員請表態意見。這個我們還是要堅持保留。好,我們本案保留。好,六十四案。我們六十四案。八月長,這個秋元已經有簽名了。改凍結十分之一。二十萬元凍結十分之一,凍結兩萬元。對,是。"},{"start":10588.951,"end":10607.46,"text":"動輒兩萬元增加書面報告、補書面報告。好。我們就通過動輒兩萬元增加書面報告。六十五案。檢列五十萬元科目自行調整。大家有意見嗎?沒見通過。六十六案主決議有意見嗎?沒見通過。六十七案主決議通過。沒見通過。六十八案。"},{"start":10608.737,"end":10636.692,"text":"有限電視發展基金改為凍結110萬書面報告有意見嗎?沒有意見,通過69案撤案,70案撤案,71案主決,有意見嗎?沒有意見,通過72案主決,有意見嗎?沒有意見,通過73...翁主委,你還沒有跟上我的腳步,我們已經72了73案主決,各位有沒有寶貴意見?沒有意見,通過"},{"start":10638.035,"end":10643.017,"text":"主席,趁他們換場時間,我們還是來提一下,就是說第一個啊,第一個我們還是要譴責一下NCC啊,怎麼會發一個,你還沒有,對啊,這不對嘛,我們"},{"start":10662.335,"end":10683.402,"text":"不是啊,你不能發這個東西嘛。所以啊。好,第二。來。第二喔。對,我們協商真的還沒看。好,來。第二個齁,就說他這邊什麼椅車啊,提案人還有陳焦華委員啊。這NCC到底在搞什麼鬼啊?"},{"start":10690.4,"end":10694.963,"text":"因為成交委員不是本屆的,當時簽署有成選生委員,獲得成選生委員,他有撤簽,他有寫撤簽。"},{"start":10713.971,"end":10740.646,"text":"好各位黨團幹部我們繼續開會我們現在歡迎列席的法務部政部長熱情歡迎請坐謝謝好我們法務部第一案改組決意大家有意見嗎?沒意見通過第二案改組決意有意見嗎?沒意見通過第三案組決意有意見嗎?沒意見通過第四案組決意有意見嗎?沒意見通過第五案組決意有意見嗎?通過第六案有意見嗎?沒意見通過"},{"start":10743.057,"end":10771.207,"text":"獨品防治基金第七案改簡列二十五萬科目自行調整有意見嗎?沒見通過第八案簡列五百萬元三億兩千四百二十六萬元的預算簡列五百萬科目自行調整大家有意見嗎?沒見通過第九案簡列百分之五然後簡列凍結百分之二十五請法務部請說明"},{"start":10773.628,"end":10789.222,"text":"這部分一般行政管理計畫及辦理這個項目這個我們今天可以接受執行因為剩下到40萬元那是不是可以建立改組決議提出面報告?好 謝謝政務長所提出的改組決議"},{"start":10791.314,"end":10811.257,"text":"剩下書面報告,大家有意見嗎?好,沒有意見,好,我們就尊重政部長的改組決議,增加書面報告,進入第十案,主席有意見嗎?沒見,通過十一案,主席有意見嗎?通過第十二案,主席有意見嗎?沒見,通過第十三案,主席有意見嗎?通過第十四案,主席有意見嗎?沒見,通過"},{"start":10812.978,"end":10833.014,"text":"好!法務部謝謝!謝謝政部長!微笑!離開!啊!聖誕節快樂!好!謝謝!接下來考選部請考選部,劉部長好熱情歡迎您現在進入考選部考選業務基金第15項改組決有意見嗎?沒見通過第16項簡列60萬元請問各位黨團幹部有意見嗎?好!請蔡易瑜幹事長"},{"start":10843.098,"end":10866.186,"text":"請考選部說明一下好請考選部劉部長請說明跟主席報告因為我們今年的那個報考人數有減少所以這部分郵寄的確是可以比較少所以這部分可以遵照辦理好考選部也行政機關表達意見沒有問題我們就簡列60萬需要通過第17案簡列500萬元大家有沒有寶貴意見"},{"start":10867.755,"end":10868.175,"text":"請考選部劉部長"},{"start":10895.545,"end":10896.646,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":10935.046,"end":10936.607,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝各位黨團幹部 謝謝 謝謝"},{"start":10955.835,"end":10977.615,"text":"謝謝我們熱情歡迎勞動部紅森漢部長及謝謝各位勞動部所有官員勞動部紅部長第一次來立法院他現在業務還不熟大家可以修理他好謝謝我們進入第一案我們改組決議大家有意見嗎沒見通過第二組決議有意見嗎沒見通過第三組決議有意見嗎"},{"start":10978.516,"end":10989.229,"text":"通過。第四案主決改文字修正有意見嗎?沒見修正通過。第五案主決有意見嗎?沒見通過。我們進入就業安定基金第六案"},{"start":10990.711,"end":11007.775,"text":"我們為改合併委員會決議辦理書面報告,大家有意見嗎?沒見,通過。第七案,改凍結兩千萬元,加書面報告,大家有意見嗎?沒見,通過。第八案,簡列三億元,無事要幹,市長請發言。"},{"start":11010.196,"end":11010.536,"text":"各位委員大家好"},{"start":11026.352,"end":11054.803,"text":"其實這個案子因為他其實現在是在救援基金裡面他主要是在促進國民就業下面的服務費用那其實這一筆其實原本就是在做包括職業訓練包括身心障礙或特定對象的就業訓練就業服務技能檢定其實對於勞動部各種職訓相關的工作來說非常非常關鍵那現在看到單位委員提出簡列三億真的是比較多啦吼那我們是希望能說是不是能夠"},{"start":11055.503,"end":11058.264,"text":"請紅部長說明目前11月底的執行率,或者到年底的"},{"start":11083.953,"end":11093.797,"text":"我目前預計這個案子的執行率目前預計可以到97%97%所以確實現在如果是要3減3億元的話可能還是會有一些問題好林士明書記長那個洪部長已經說明他們預計要執行到97%"},{"start":11103.729,"end":11106.91,"text":"第九案,我們改合併委員會決議辦理,大家有意見嗎?沒意見,通過。第十案,改合併委員會併案辦理,有意見嗎?沒意見,通過。十一案,改組決議,有意見嗎?沒意見,通過。十二案,改組決議。"},{"start":11130.976,"end":11158.927,"text":"通過十三案改組決議。通過十四案改組決議。通過第十五案改組決議。通過第十六案改組決議。通過十七案改組決議。通過第十八案減列三千萬元。請蔡易餘書記長請說明。這一案齁基本上看起來都是屬於這個必要費用水電油電所以我們還是問一下說現在的執行率以及預計的執行率再來再判斷。好謝謝請洪部長請說明。好"},{"start":11161.528,"end":11183.356,"text":"這個也是就安基金下面非常重要的這個外國人聘顧管理及許可計畫下的服務費用目前我其實跟同仁們詢問這個到年底的執行率可以到97、98其實也是執行率相當高的計畫所以目前如果是要按照委員如果是要減列3000萬的話真的也是比較多我們也是希望可以再降低一下這個減列的數字"},{"start":11186.155,"end":11211.684,"text":"好,謝謝,謝謝紅部長說明,我們第十八案保留,再等勞動部提供書面報告。好,謝謝,我們進入第十九案。改合併委員會決議辦理,大家有意見嗎?沒意見,通過二十三案改組決議。通過二十一案改合併委員會決議辦理。通過二十三案改組決議。通過二十三案減劣百分之五,凍結四分之一,二十五趴。請勞動部表達意見。"},{"start":11218.905,"end":11235.279,"text":"陳慶惠委員提案在一般行政管理計劃裡面的秘書業務陳慶惠委員有在他的提案裡面講到說其實因為今年編列的金額比較高我想說明一下編列金額比較高的原因第一個原因是因為"},{"start":11237.885,"end":11266.786,"text":"這個因為疫情之後那這個疫情出來其實移工申請的案件的增加第二個也有包括其實有部分的運用人員因為合約的關係他們退休所以目前改用委外的人力所以這個委外人力相關的採購其實也讓委外的處理的計劃的費用其實可能會高一些那也包括有一些在移工申請的案件因為現在要把它全面的線上化所以包括當時其實在立法院當然也有要求說過去可能像一些文件"},{"start":11267.786,"end":11293.982,"text":"韓文只有中文的版本要加上其他語文的版本所以再加上其他語文版本的時候再印出來或相關的文書作業列印上面也會比過去來得多更多的支出主要的來源是這個那這次委員當然提出來的這個簡列的數字坦白說如果按照這個數字簡列下去的話確實會讓這部分會出現非常非常大的困難所以一樣我們還是希望可以來降低簡列的數字那這部分也希望能夠跟"},{"start":11295.924,"end":11296.764,"text":"委員們來做一些討論。謝謝。"},{"start":11309.403,"end":11335.564,"text":"主席還有各位委員其實我們現在針對這個就業安定基金我們可以看得出來那個洪副長上任之後他有很大的企圖心那麼也捍衛這個就業安定基金的這個各個項目的預算但是啊其實以比如說我們現在討論的23案前面因為我們保留嘛就是請他們提出報告"},{"start":11336.567,"end":11356.834,"text":"以二、三案來講,不管是簡略或者尤其在凍結預算數,然後希望他們提出專案報告。我覺得此時此刻,我相信很多廣大的勞工和僱主都非常想要知道我們就業安定基金到底是怎麼用的。是給部長去開個人演唱會嗎?"},{"start":11361.505,"end":11385.638,"text":"是給這些分署長拿來去送他的長官什麼愛馬仕絲巾嗎是不是有這樣的一個挪用跟濫用我們現在因為我們在立法院裡面包含重大的人事案或者是這個預算案其實我們現在要求一個專案報告不為過吧"},{"start":11388.132,"end":11404.774,"text":"現在事實上在都已經被地檢署可能都有會去做偵辦但是我想新任部長上來也應該做一個行政調查我相信部長也應該很想知道過去就業安定基金有沒有被濫用服用亂用的情形"},{"start":11405.971,"end":11406.913,"text":"請紅部長補充說明"},{"start":11421.66,"end":11435.229,"text":"好現在確實我們有看到很多的委員包括社會其實對於然後部下救安基金的使用提出很多的疑問這些是我們其實都看到那我幾點說明第一個確實這段時間有提出來的一些質疑目前"},{"start":11437.05,"end":11465.382,"text":"檢調其實現在確實已經在調查那也包括他們也在做各種調卷部分這部分這個勞動部其實會全力的配合那第二,剛剛王議員其實提到一個重點就是說其實要來做專案報告我想勞動部不會去推託要來到立法院針對這個做專案報告的事情就我所知其實下禮拜蘇清泉委員蘇清泉召委好像也排了相關的專案報告其實要來所以我們絕對不會去推託這件事情"},{"start":11466.395,"end":11490.51,"text":"至於現在大家一旦談到的有一些科目的使用適不適合我自己其實我們也請勞發署為這兩天那我也跟勞發署說了科目上面合不合適這件事情我們絕對會來做檢討那我比大家更想知道我比大家更希望勞動部下面相關的基金的運用希望能夠合乎社會的期待這部分我們會來檢討謝謝"},{"start":11492.65,"end":11518.037,"text":"謝謝黃部長的說明,我們二、三項保留,補充書面報告。這個可不可以就照案通過啊,也給我們那個勞動部一個專案報告的空間吧。哇,現在黃輝委員現在提出來,我們就把他照案通過。沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,沒有,院長。因為這個預算他到底現在執行的狀況怎樣不知道。所以他,你又減劣,然後又凍結25%,這個我覺得,齁。"},{"start":11523.137,"end":11550.978,"text":"我們還是一樣保留阿然後讓他們提書面去說明一下現在的使用狀況好謝謝我們就保留本案好保留本案OK23案23案我們就保留我們補充書面報告好嗎好謝謝24案主角有意見嗎每件通過25案有意見嗎每件通過26案主角有意見嗎每件通過27案主角有意見嗎每件通過"},{"start":11554.306,"end":11554.728,"text":"哇,喘一口氣啊。"},{"start":11556.994,"end":11584.991,"text":"二十八案主決議有異見嗎?通過二十九案主決議有異見嗎?通過三十案主決議有異見嗎?通過三十一案主決議有異見嗎?通過三十二案主決議有異見嗎?通過三十三案主決議有異見嗎?通過三十四案主決議有異見嗎?通過好,我們進入信託基金、勞退基金第三十五案增列八十億元請問各位黨、紅部長請說明嗯,遵照辦理"},{"start":11588.543,"end":11611.977,"text":"勞動部表示願意配合全力辦理,大家有沒有意見?沒有意見,好,我們照案通過增列八十一元,第三十六案存款利息收入增列兩億元,紅部長請說明,好,勞動部表達配合辦理,謝謝三十六案通過三十七案增列一百二十億元,請紅部長補充說明,"},{"start":11614.158,"end":11614.818,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":11638.534,"end":11657.977,"text":"衛福部,我們熱情歡迎衛福部邱部長。各位衛福部官員請坐。我們進入醫療藥品基金。第38案,該組決議有意見嗎?每件通過39案組決議。文字修正有意見嗎?每件修正通過40案組決議。通過41案組決議。通過42案組決議。通過43案組決議。通過44案。"},{"start":11668.973,"end":11679.802,"text":"改檢列三百萬元,請邱部長說明。為服務表達,配合辦理。請陳昭之委員請發言。"},{"start":11683.087,"end":11684.788,"text":"第四十四案,檢列三百萬元衛福部配合辦理。黨黨幹部門接受。"},{"start":11712.876,"end":11716.658,"text":"四十六案簡列三百萬元,衛福部請表達意見。"},{"start":11739.32,"end":11740.761,"text":"衛福部表達,配合辦理。"},{"start":11754.429,"end":11769.185,"text":"通過54案主決議、通過55案主決議、通過56案主決議、通過57案主決議、通過58案文字修正、修正通過59案文字修正、修正通過60案文字修正、"},{"start":11775.127,"end":11787.177,"text":"主席,對不起,因為剛剛既然有往回跑的,那我也往回確認一下。剛剛40案是主決議,所以主決議衛福部也沒有修正民眾黨委員的任何文字。"},{"start":11788.178,"end":11813.854,"text":"所以現在民眾黨委員針對這個組決議就是都要照你們的文字來辦理。所以你們要保留的意思是什麼?因為我們對於這個提供的書面...等一下等一下,因為這個組決議的意思你們要求衛福部醫療藥品基金三個月內提出偏鄉醫師長期需求改進方案。他們要提出然後每半年要繳交後續追蹤報告。他們必須照你們的要求辦理。"},{"start":11814.935,"end":11836.686,"text":"所以這個主決意有什麼好保留的我要請問這件事情因為它不涉及預算的簡略凍結而且完全遵照貴黨所提出來的主決意的文字要辦理不管是三個月的報書面報告或是每半年繳交追蹤報告都要遵照了那請問你們保留什麼"},{"start":11839.033,"end":11840.434,"text":"沒有修正你們的任何文字"},{"start":11864.948,"end":11879.853,"text":"他們有提供書面資料但是我們跟他溝通的時候沒有達到我們的要求所以希望就是這個保留他們再來溝通我們希望這保留這個就是我們的黨團的意見保留哪一部分"},{"start":11886.116,"end":11912.229,"text":"他現在是完全跟你們同意他同意你們的建議請問要保留什麼?他們就是有同意但是他們拿的資料過來我們看了沒有是我們要求所以才要叫他再來修正才要保留啊沒有保留這保留什麼院長?"},{"start":11913.51,"end":11929.133,"text":"你對於你們的決議文字有什麼樣的意見?完全遵照貴黨的決議文字,我們沒意見的照你們的案通過。對啊,所以我要確認你們為什麼要保留呢?因為都照你們的通過啊。請讓麥委員跟陳委員讓他們表達意見好嗎?"},{"start":11938.155,"end":11941.217,"text":"第六十二 國民年金保險基金每件通過"},{"start":11959.662,"end":11979.751,"text":"六十四案改組決議,大家有意見嗎?每件通過六十五案改組決議,有意見嗎?每件通過六十六案檢列百分之五,凍結二十分之二,請表達,衛福部請表達意見。跟主席還有各位人報告,六十六案我們建議改成組決議。"},{"start":11985.174,"end":12003.13,"text":"主決議的內容報告一下我先報告一下這個案子三千多萬都是在用在食安基金補助地方衛生局的稽查還有食安的人力所以這個案子錢已經依照進度撥給地方衛生局來執行"},{"start":12004.511,"end":12014.709,"text":"那報告一下我們建議改為主決議的內容那依照第六十六案提案的內容的第六行第六行"},{"start":12016.164,"end":12040.803,"text":"食品安全績效之設定後面的文字到第七行、第八行都劃掉改成原請衛生福利部持續確實依衛生福利部食品安全保護基金補助從事促進食品安全事務業務或研究之相關計劃申請作業須知進行"},{"start":12044.775,"end":12066.016,"text":"斗典接下來接第九行補助經中央主管機關指定或公開徵選者從事其有關促進食品安全之相關費用斗號令於三個月內提交書面報告以上報告"},{"start":12067.705,"end":12072.507,"text":"委員長,我們要謝謝衛福部的官員這麼認真,但是下一次部長所屬的官員不要來這裡教導我們你們要怎麼修正"},{"start":12091.226,"end":12115.506,"text":"怎麼會你們來教導我們怎麼修正呢?然後再把你們想要的文字念一次給我們聽?你應該去溝通的不是來這裡溝通啊?怎麼會來這裡啊?我們這一本都照你的意思,全部重新念一次,要念多久啊?這第一齁,本案是一定要保留,你們沒有處理好,你們沒有處理好的話,我們就會表決了。這第一。第二,那個昭知委員齁,還有那個麥毓貞齁,"},{"start":12119.076,"end":12130.313,"text":"你們對於113年的主決議,如果他們來要來虛與委蛇,主決議他們經常是這樣子的,如果虛與委蛇在114年的預算的時候你們再來提,好不好,就這樣。"},{"start":12136.066,"end":12164.691,"text":"謝謝院長這個我剛有聽你們的報告這個都是給地方政府的衛生局都撥給他們了是不是?是講一下你們現在撥補的這個進度還有費用比例是多少?請衛福部表達一下是我們已經按照他們申請的經費完全撥補目前執行率99%阿對啊這個是給地方政府的衛生局阿去凍結他的預算是沒有意思阿好"},{"start":12166.213,"end":12177.891,"text":"稍微等一下那個剛才這個衛福部答第六十六項是補助衛生局九十九趴但是國民黨副分局委員總召表達保留那我們到時候我們有書面報告出來我們再來書面報告之後我們再來"},{"start":12182.393,"end":12182.573,"text":"﹚主席﹚"},{"start":12212.393,"end":12235.668,"text":"委員通過六十九案改組決有意見嗎?有意見通過七十案改組決有意見嗎?通過七十一案檢列五千萬元衛福部請表達意見邱部長遵照辦理好謝謝衛福部表達意見為配合好我們七十一案檢列五千萬通過七十二案改組決通過七十三案"},{"start":12237.119,"end":12266.365,"text":"文字修正,大家有意見嗎?沒意見,修正通過。七十四案,我們通過。七十五案,文字修正,我們修正通過。七十六案,有意見嗎?沒意見,通過。七十七案,有意見嗎?沒意見,通過。七十八案,有文字修正,大家有意見嗎?修正通過。七十九案,文字修正,有意見嗎?沒意見,修正通過。八十案,有意見嗎?通過。八十一案,文字修正,有意見嗎?"},{"start":12267.546,"end":12294.935,"text":"修正通過現在只有國民黨臨時民委員配額度最高還講沒有大家其他都不講話麻煩講個話讓我有點成就感好嗎我們第82案疫苗基金大家有意見嗎好多了83案有意見嗎好沒意見通過82有意見嗎好有意見的請有意見好沒意見通過85案文字修正大家有意見嗎"},{"start":12298.574,"end":12315.881,"text":"文字修正有意見嗎?沒有意見。文字修正修正通過87案。文字修正修正通過88案。文字修正修正通過89案。沒有意見。我們文字修正修正通過90案。沒有意見。通過91案。"},{"start":12319.946,"end":12346.146,"text":"我們通過好謝謝衛福部邱部長謝謝各位衛福部官員微笑請回接下來我們要審查環境部環保基金我們請環境部彭部長熱情歡迎您請坐好"},{"start":12347.39,"end":12373.732,"text":"各位黨團幹部我們進入第九十二案環境保護基金第九十二案改合併委員會決議辦理書面報告有意見嗎?沒見通過九十三案改凍結兩百萬請彭部長表達意見報告委員這個已經專案委員都書面簽名也蓋章了造案謝謝好環環境部表達配合辦理我們本案凍結兩百萬元"},{"start":12375.834,"end":12405.032,"text":"通過94案凍結200萬元,請環境部表達意見。報告委員長,這個已經書面報告以簽名蓋章了,謝謝。好,謝謝。環境部,請黃宏威委員發言。現在我們討論的是94案,是不是?94案,現在說本來是凍結數15%,所以要不要確定一下,是不是已經那個,你們召之?曾召之委員,提案委員,請表達意見。"},{"start":12406.462,"end":12432.956,"text":"你確定你簽字蓋章了嗎?我蓋了蓋章好謝謝謝謝王宏偉委員陳昭之委員我們本案凍結兩百萬元通過九十五案撤案九十六案撤案九十七案改合併委員會決議辦理書面報告通過九十八案改組決議通過林士兵委員你要配合一下好九十九案改合併委員會決議辦理"},{"start":12435.137,"end":12459.66,"text":"每一件通過。一百案改合併委員會決議動辦理書面報告。有一件嗎?每一件?同意。把那個動刪掉改決議辦理。對。就通過一百零一案改合併委員會決議辦理。"},{"start":12461.657,"end":12469.822,"text":"書面報告通過102改合併委員會決議辦理通過103改合併委員會決議辦理書面報告增加書面報告沒意見通過104改合併委員會決議辦理書面報告通過105改合併委員會決議辦理通過102文字修正組決議有意見嗎?修正通過107有意見嗎?"},{"start":12489.329,"end":12514.09,"text":"通過108案文字修正改修正好我們修正通過109案主決議有文字修正大家有沒有好修正通過110案主決議有文字修正修正通過111案文字修正主決議有意見嗎修正通過112案文字修正好我們修正通過113案測案"},{"start":12516.331,"end":12542.964,"text":"一百一十四案文字修正主決議有意見嗎?修正通過一百一十五案有意見嗎?沒意見主決議。通過一百一十六案主決議。通過一百一十七案主決議。通過一百一十八案主決議有文字修正。大家有寶貴意見嗎?修正通過一百一十九案主決議。通過一百一百二十案有文字修正。大家有寶貴意見嗎?修正通過一百二十一案。"},{"start":12544.383,"end":12556.939,"text":"主決議大家有修正,文字修正大家有寶貴意見嗎?修正通過一百二十二案,我們主決議有文字修正大家有寶貴意見嗎?沒有修正通過一百二十三案,主決議有意見嗎?"},{"start":12558.834,"end":12581.69,"text":"沒有意見,好,通過,謝謝彭部長,微笑返回,謝謝。跟各位黨團幹部報告,我們昨天營業項目保留8案,今天非營業項目我們保留23案。113年度附屬單位預算案營業及非營業共保留31案,我們休息5分鐘。"},{"start":12591.916,"end":12592.396,"text":"案相關事宜．．"},{"start":12609.891,"end":12610.351,"text":"二、國民黨團提議．．．．．"},{"start":12659.665,"end":12661.466,"text":"打過招呼啦打過招呼了啦"},{"start":12674.957,"end":12682.005,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":12740.043,"end":12740.425,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":12776.596,"end":12801.607,"text":"二、國民黨黨團提議）））一、國民黨黨團提議））一、國民黨黨團提議））一、國民黨黨團提議））一、國民黨黨團提議））一、國民黨黨團提議））一、國民黨黨團提議））一、國民黨黨團提議））一、國民黨黨團提議））一、國民黨黨團提議））一、國民黨黨團提議））一、國民黨黨團提議））一、國民黨黨團提議））一、國民黨黨團提議））一、國民黨黨團提議�"},{"start":12804.292,"end":12826.152,"text":"響鐘響鐘"},{"start":12863.178,"end":12884.414,"text":"好謝謝各位黨團幹部請就座特別跟各位黨團幹部報告一下我們這兩天所處理的營業跟非營業預算已經告一段落我們現在有一個協商草稿現在請議事人員已經發到各位黨團幹部手上那如果等一下我會宣讀看看大家的意見如果可以的話我們就來簽字"},{"start":12886.621,"end":12908.144,"text":"至於保留部分,我們進行第二輪部分,各黨團繼續保持溝通,先讓幕僚單位能夠製作宣讀本以及保留本。我這個協商結論有兩項,敬請大家共同來參考一下。一、各黨團同意本案之討論程序及決定事項,如附件一。"},{"start":12909.265,"end":12932.896,"text":"通案提案及各委員會通過之協商內容含保留部分如附件二由各委員會整理宣讀本及保留本交各黨團確認後送財政委員會附件一及附件二由財政委員會於十二月十日星期二中午十二點前送議事處以立院會處理"},{"start":12935.253,"end":12951.526,"text":"二、本案於12月13日星期五院會進行處理（非保留部分宣讀後均予以通過（保留部分均暫保留（保留部分進行處理之前（由台灣民眾黨推派一位"},{"start":12952.307,"end":12970.861,"text":"民主進步黨推派一位．國民黨團推派一位．因上述黨團順序發言．每人發言時間三分鐘．發言完畢之後．我們各保留提案均不再發言．及開始進行保留部分之表決．"},{"start":12972.162,"end":12996.889,"text":"三、本次協商各項提案我們均予以刊登公報記錄請問各黨團幹部對於各位手上剛才我所所宣讀的決定事項有沒有意見請吳世堯幹事長請發言謝謝院長想再確認一下議事人員確認一下因為這我初步看來也是依王立的處理方式所以就是雙軌並行"},{"start":12998.769,"end":13025.078,"text":"第二點就是很明確的告訴我們院會12月13號星期五來處理要保留的那些案子那其他部分可以財政委員會先去處理議案的先去處理但是這裡頭可能比較沒有要跟詢問一下院長那我們保留的案子沒有一個終極在討論的協商嗎對不對照理講因為保留是保留嘛"},{"start":13027.22,"end":13044.139,"text":"對,就是昨天起案其實照理講應當要有一個二輪因為呢,像剛剛大家就是都還印象猶新嘛記憶猶新就是剛剛副總召要求他們提供資料然後如果OK其實是可以直接來做"},{"start":13045.119,"end":13046.48,"text":"請議事處高處長解釋一下,報告一下"},{"start":13071.823,"end":13091.079,"text":"跟各位黨編報告我們這一個協商草案的草稿確實是依照過去的慣例寫的那這個保留本的部分剛才主席有宣告說先讓幕僚單位去整理宣讀本跟保留本那剛剛院長也有說明了目前保留的案子就是那幾案那"},{"start":13092.148,"end":13117.899,"text":"各委員會會拿保留本去跟各黨團確認那好比說剛剛在協商的時候呢有要求部會要送一些資料那他們可能就這占保留的概念他就不在了他會在保留本上面說這個案子他是要測案或是說他就改成什麼之類的那如果保留本回來之後各委員會會去跟財委會講說我們的保留本本來是有這些案可是事實上有一些是測案什麼"},{"start":13118.419,"end":13137.997,"text":"然後院長再看說要不要大家選擇一天再進行第二輪確認如果大家都有共識說要進行第二輪就確認阿如果說不要的話我們在星期五的時候院會進完宣讀本宣讀完之後進行保留本進行到這一案的時候如果大家黨邊都有簽名院長會說這一案保留本這一案因為黨團共識"},{"start":13139.719,"end":13151.153,"text":"因為已經講好了怎麼樣我們就那個過去有這種處理方式然後也可以進行第二輪也可以就是等於是先讓幕僚去製作保留本之後確認的過程當中就可以保持溝通以上"},{"start":13155.121,"end":13177.12,"text":"請發言報告院長我想剛剛的才是我認為一定是需要程序上本來也應當有二輪的協商為什麼呢因為剛剛的每一個案子的保留剛剛議事人員的意思是說去跟該提案的委員說明好OK的OK可是事實上今天在朝野協商的保留案是"},{"start":13177.66,"end":13202.432,"text":"三黨同意下的保留案．所以勢必要回到三黨都在的朝野協商的場域進行二輪我非常期待有二輪也看行政部門你們就要這段時間想方設法努力去說服提案的委員也許到最後再來二輪協商可能只剩下15案剩下10案所以這樣的二輪的協商是不能夠跳過的"},{"start":13203.533,"end":13222.138,"text":"好,我想各黨邊都願意來承擔這樣的協商的責任所以換言之第二點之前是不是要再加個前提在院會處理前我們會再進行二輪的協商那我同意把時間先壓著大家可以做準備沒有問題一定要有二輪協商一定要有"},{"start":13223.583,"end":13247.3,"text":"跟國民黨團、台灣民眾黨團報告一下,我是想要跟國民黨團的意思,如果說我們一定要進行二輪,我們時間點大概會在12月11號跟12號。那我會跟副院長來,我們會調我們的主持院會的時間。那我們再抽出時間來,還是三個黨團大家坐在一起,針對保留案件我們進行二輪。那這是他的意思,請問國民黨團跟民眾黨團有沒有寶貴意見?沒有的話我們就把它針列進去了。"},{"start":13247.5,"end":13262.517,"text":"蘇議長請說"},{"start":13262.797,"end":13283.877,"text":"所以說11號12號要進行二輪協商的話那個書面他們一定要趕著這個時間趕快給我們我們要時間消耗那行政單位我們這樣審查他不提書面他就麻木不忍怎麼可能勒他一定會提的嘛所以我們一定要提出來關鍵是我們的時間那時間上我們是可以配合我們訂出時間行政單位可以配合大家審查保留這個沒有問題的他們一定要做"},{"start":13284.838,"end":13308.169,"text":"好,那我們大概,我們現在增進去,時間點讓大家預告心裡大概有個底但我們會在12月11、12左右,我們則一天進行二輪,針對保留的項目我們來進行二輪討論,好嗎?好,我們現在增進去之後,我們就協商草稿的部分,再說這個由財委會12月10號中午送議事處,後面我加幾個字"},{"start":13309.089,"end":13314.131,"text":"並於十二月十一日開始進行保留本的第二次協商。"},{"start":13339.957,"end":13364.087,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":13376.504,"end":13386.893,"text":"．﹚國民黨黨團提議．﹚國民黨黨團提議．﹚國民黨黨團提議"},{"start":13405.747,"end":13411.873,"text":"﹚立法院黨團協商．一、繼續研商．一、繼續研商．一、繼續研商"},{"start":13424.634,"end":13424.834,"text":"主席"},{"start":13442.632,"end":13451.555,"text":"這個應該是合理的,這個怎麼樣都會是這樣看,對不對,這跟實況差不多,現況應該是這樣,這個就...這樣是不是程序就會比較清楚,我們也做得出來,所以這一定要有,不建議一起唸"},{"start":13471.901,"end":13472.061,"text":"主席"},{"start":13499.514,"end":13511.903,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":13513.043,"end":13513.724,"text":"案相關事宜））"},{"start":13536.186,"end":13536.566,"text":"委員會在開公聽會"},{"start":13565.564,"end":13568.247,"text":"全院委員會開的公聽會,呼籲召委不要"},{"start":13587.985,"end":13589.326,"text":"主席有呼籲,呼籲不是說強制"},{"start":13604.121,"end":13620.111,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":13622.172,"end":13622.352,"text":"主席﹚議員﹚"},{"start":13647.118,"end":13647.558,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":13670.626,"end":13680.989,"text":"因為會組還算成就委員會我們會跟他對,這個一定要跟他們對,因為我們沒有什麼厲害我是新同學,所以請出話這個性質差太多了"},{"start":13686.351,"end":13686.912,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":13708.384,"end":13717.346,"text":"當時是科建民生徵友團委員無意刪掉,因為那感覺沒有功能。因為現在沒有聯席會。財政委員會要主政,所以整個財政委員會,當時他們同意刪掉,因為造業會沒有意義。"},{"start":13729.631,"end":13742.758,"text":"所以你剛才問的權力委員會的規則就把那個拿掉。可是那其實公平會也是權力委員會召開的公平會,那些性質?權力委員會應該附屬在,比如說頭銜在那整個一塊在土地。"},{"start":13744.739,"end":13753.907,"text":"是這樣,但是因為現在沒有法院,所以沒有法院,有些委員會,有些委員會他的召集委員要他開禮或什麼的,也沒辦法開禮。就是沒有法規啦,尊重他們,對。請用不用。"},{"start":13775.041,"end":13783.658,"text":"請問一下,我們回去,承辦員還是會跟各位委員會對過,對不對?因為剛剛秘書長是說,我們就是到時候還是要對一下他們的,我們可以跟他們對一下。"},{"start":13786.349,"end":13786.849,"text":"案相關事宜"},{"start":13825.088,"end":13834.296,"text":"謝謝各位黨團幹部謝謝也謝謝各位列席的官員那我再把剛才增加的部分再一次跟各位報導一下我們決定了三樣"},{"start":13836.96,"end":13862.93,"text":"決定事項一、各黨團同意本案之討論程序及決定事項如附件一、通案提案及各委員會通過之協商內容含保留部分如附件二、由各委員會整理宣讀本及保留本交各黨團確認後送財政委員會附件一及附件二由財政委員會於十二月十日星期二中午十二點前送議事處"},{"start":13865.271,"end":13887.916,"text":"院會處理,並於12月11日星期三進行保留本第二輪協商。二、本案於12月13日星期五院會進行處理,非保留部分宣讀後均予以通過,保留部分暫保留,保留部分進行處理前由台灣民眾黨推派一位"},{"start":13889.178,"end":13918.122,"text":"民主進步黨推派一位．國民黨團推派一位．一、上述黨團順序發言．每人發言時間三分鐘．發言完畢之後．我們各保留提案均不再發言．及開始進行保留部分之表決．三、本次協商各項提案均與刊登公報記錄．請問各黨團幹部．對這三項．我們決定四項．有意見嗎．沒意見好我先簽字"},{"start":13927.882,"end":13931.943,"text":"中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業及非營業部分討論程序及決定事項一、討論程序"},{"start":13947.386,"end":13962.276,"text":"小一、順序為先行討論通案決議,再依審查總報告,所列各委員會營業部分及非營業部分之順序討論,以協商過之單位原則不再處理"},{"start":13964.175,"end":13982.722,"text":"大二,決定事項。小一,中華民國113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業及非營業部分審查總報告所列未送院會處理項目,除卻有自在難行者在協商。依協商結論。"},{"start":13984.349,"end":13998.329,"text":"通過外﹐其餘均照各委員會審查會議決議通過﹐自送院會處理項目﹐協商有結論者﹐依協商結論通過﹐協商未獲結論者交付表決。"},{"start":14000.396,"end":14012.69,"text":"並依表決結果通過。小二、各委員會審查結果、協商結論均應依通案決議辦理,不再逐一與各單位協商。結果來續明。請各位繼續簽。好。"},{"start":14024.073,"end":14053.068,"text":"另外重要跟宣告一下跟大家報告一下一、我們跟大家補充報告明天的院會跟上週五一樣只開會半天就散會所以拜託各位黨團幹部通知每位委員請準時簽到第二、這會期即將進入12月因為是預決算會期我們還有一個112年度決算案要處理邀請監察院審計長來進行報告過去有利用院會半天時間來處理"},{"start":14055.322,"end":14055.963,"text":"立法院黨團協商結論"},{"start":14071.56,"end":14082.773,"text":"決定事項各黨團同意12月17日下午邀請審計部審計長列席報告《112年度中央政府總決算審核報告審核經過並備諮詢》。"},{"start":14087.445,"end":14105.154,"text":"質詢人數由國民黨團推派四位,民主進步黨推派四位,台灣民眾黨黨團推派一位進行。質詢的順序依例授權議事處辦理。名單請各黨團於12月16日星期一中午12點前送至議事處會診。"},{"start":14107.188,"end":14113.791,"text":"議案詢答完畢後即交付審查。各黨團同意提出復議。當日會議我們不處理臨時提案。請問各黨團幹部對此協商結論預擬有沒有寶貴意見?"},{"start":14140.458,"end":14144.26,"text":"所以17號早上是考試委員投票,下午是審計部審計長來報告。"},{"start":14157.93,"end":14183.508,"text":"請問一下因為就那個議程表因為17號那一天是在行使考試院院長好早上那是有必要如果說那幾號啊20號不行嗎20號的院會來處理處理審計長的這個報告不行嗎看一下因為20號目前沒有排定什麼樣子的議程"},{"start":14185.203,"end":14195.511,"text":"因為整天約會那天也可以進行啊。只是商量一下,因為那天看起來目前沒有什麼太多"},{"start":14198.193,"end":14199.955,"text":"我想問一下二十號不可以的理由是什麼?"},{"start":14227.168,"end":14245.56,"text":"整天因為目前沒有你說的那些議案存在目前沒有啊所以為什麼不要20號呢"},{"start":14249.998,"end":14250.798,"text":"我想休息兩分鐘"},{"start":14274.951,"end":14285.773,"text":"請問等一下會處理法案嗎?那我是不是要告退了還是不行?我們可以告退了嗎?還是不行?我跟你說,我把東西拿下"},{"start":14304.286,"end":14305.387,"text":"﹚立法院黨團提議．﹚"},{"start":14318.148,"end":14342.637,"text":"響鐘響鐘"},{"start":14344.957,"end":14352.503,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝經過溝通 大家都同意 那麼我現在先簽字 接下來請各黨團幹部來簽字好我們接下來OK"},{"start":14381.628,"end":14382.328,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":14398.941,"end":14415.012,"text":"好,謝謝各位黨團幹部。對不起,原住民真主委跟各位原住民委員會的所有的列席官員,不好意思,因為我們案子比較多,讓大家等了一下。我們現在研商有關原住民民委員會組織法第三條、第四條及第七條條文修正草案。"},{"start":14416.564,"end":14431.945,"text":"本案於10月6日由國民黨團吳宗憲委員召集,並與協商鄭天才16位及高金素美等24位分別凝聚《原住民族委員會組織法第三條及第四條條文修正草案》。"},{"start":14433.527,"end":14447.483,"text":"以及院會進副二讀黃人委員等29位委員凝聚（原住民委員會組織法第三條及第四條條文修正草案及鄭天才委員等18人凝聚（"},{"start":14448.72,"end":14473.589,"text":"原住民族委員會組織法第三條、第四條及第七條條文修正草案案（各黨團、代表軍出席討論,但是沒有達成共識。我們現在先請提案的國民黨團說明,也請民進黨團說明,也請表達各位的寶貴意見,請。我們請提案的鄭天才委員,請發言。"},{"start":14474.963,"end":14498.331,"text":"好,院長,各黨團,還有我們的行政機關。有關原住民族委員會組織法第三條的部分,原來我提的第二項,我在委員會審查的時候也提了修正同意,就把第三條的第二項就已經不列了。"},{"start":14499.071,"end":14522.378,"text":"所以後來建附二讀的這個第三條也沒有這個第二項我們就第二項就不用討論之所以第三條的第一項會做這樣的一個修正就是主任委員要由三地原住民以平地原住民輪流擔任最主要就是因為原住民族的這個所在的地區"},{"start":14523.773,"end":14545.935,"text":"這個有三十個山地鄉還有二十五個平地原住民的地區然後加上因為這個工作的就業的關係在都會期也已經達到這個百分之四十幾了在都會期所以這涉及到整個前台灣都有我們原住民族"},{"start":14546.564,"end":14567.438,"text":"的一個基礎的和工作的所以在這樣一個情形之下這個山地原住民跟平地原住民因為這麼遼闊這個主任委員對這些地區不是那麼的全盤了解然後從過去的主任委員的一個擔任來看的話從延民會從85年12月"},{"start":14571.983,"end":14576.712,"text":"開始成立到現在差不多將近27年多了那這樣這麼長的時間了"},{"start":14579.396,"end":14605.016,"text":"我是平地原住民但是我雖然是目前平地原住民擔任主任委員的話將近20年了27年多裡面有將近20年比如說這個馬英九執政的這8年都是平地原住民當主任委員蔡英文總統8年也都是這個平地原住民所以這樣算起來就是已經有20"},{"start":14607.489,"end":14612.55,"text":"謝謝政策委員發言接下來還有兩位列席的原住民委員我想要先他們個別發言一下再請黨黨幹部好嗎因為這跟他們切身相關的法案我們接下來請"},{"start":14631.115,"end":14653.256,"text":"高靜委員發言 陳穎委員請準備第三條的部分我同意鄭天才委員的說法因為一位包括陳穎委員是平地原住民我是山地原住民在憲法裡面就分平地原住民跟山地原住民的部分那我就是針對第四條我來簡單的說明一下還是待會第三條那我同意鄭天才委員陳穎委員請發言我們只有針對第三條"},{"start":14659.543,"end":14659.563,"text":"吳麗華委員"},{"start":14675.716,"end":14694.974,"text":"臺亞族也好,或者還有甚至很多的族群,其實都有這個,不是像臺亞族就全部都是山園,也有部分的臺亞族在南庄他們是平原。那也有,還有一些,當然台灣族、盧凱族也是一樣的狀況。"},{"start":14696.696,"end":14713.71,"text":"幾乎每一族都有很多的族群都有這樣的狀況那只是比例多好問題那當然還有另外一個問題就是說如果這個父母都是原住民有的是山一個是山園一個是平原當然他們未來身份也是都可以改來改去"},{"start":14714.81,"end":14738.245,"text":"現在就是說回歸到這個主任委員本席還是認為能力上能不能擔任這個職位還是最重要的當然我們被分成三元平原過去有一些不得已的歷史背景那未來或許大家也會努力希望全部"},{"start":14739.505,"end":14742.948,"text":"陳英委員不同意第三條修正案,有保留意見。沒問題,我們鄭主委請發言之後請吳思堯委員準備。好,請。"},{"start":14768.204,"end":14782.044,"text":"主席還有各位委員我這邊的意見是這個山地原住民、平地原住民其實只有在選舉的時候不一樣我選山人,你選平野其實所有的權利都一樣"},{"start":14783.746,"end":14808.158,"text":"那麼你這個顏住民的身份,比如說我是3D顏住民那麼顏民會的各項的這個政策的服務還有業務的推動不會因為我是3D顏住民就不會照顧平地顏住民所以這個沒有一定,完全是應該是講,應該是以能不能私認這個工作"},{"start":14809.306,"end":14837.099,"text":"謝謝曾主委說明接下來請吳思瑤委員請發言謝謝非常尊重提案委員的意見因為我們也花了一些時間去了解一下這些歷史的背景事實上我們也了解原住民族的社會裡頭現在的趨勢是反而更想去打破山園跟平原這種的差異分別"},{"start":14837.859,"end":14857.909,"text":"他畢竟來自於殖民時期的一個歷史的遺留那現在的這個都會區大家混居的原住民的朋友也是多數了所以在分別上去分身份我覺得這個已經有點違反走回頭路的感覺那第二個事情呢我也非常同意剛剛幾位委員的發言用人為財"},{"start":14859.233,"end":14877.866,"text":"在這個舉借優良人才的部分這個行政權在人事權的任用上我相信任命者都會針對這個是才是所為作為主要的一個考量那我也去調出過去原住民族委員會從李登輝前總統到現在的歷任主委的"},{"start":14878.393,"end":14878.593,"text":"委員會組織法"},{"start":14896.661,"end":14918.043,"text":"那小英總統的時期是任命平原的原住民那賴清德總統是任命山原的原住民所以換言之在歷屆總統的內閣的組成對於山原平原都有非常平均的一個也不能講平均我覺得還是用人為財是核心但如果以這個分布來分析的話事實上都有兼顧並沒有說"},{"start":14919.184,"end":14919.664,"text":"８立法院黨團提議８"},{"start":14945.559,"end":14947.983,"text":"致謝吳斯堯幹事長發言。接下來請林思明書記長請發言。臺灣民眾黨請準備。"},{"start":14961.328,"end":14977.434,"text":"不管其實是三原也好、平原也好,都有非常優秀的人才。因為我們看歷年以來都是由這個平原來擔任嘛。難道三原就沒有優秀的人才嗎?所以我們不能一概而論說,這個由平原來擔任,好像平原又比較優秀。"},{"start":14978.394,"end":14996.26,"text":"其實我們看到就是說整個現在我們的整個公職人員不管是我們立委也好或者是我們的地方縣市議員都是相正常也是有3D的議員3D原住民議員以及平地原住民議員都有這樣的區別所以主委"},{"start":14996.86,"end":15018.781,"text":"他當然就是要由我們認為應該由這個3D原住民跟平地原住民來擔任才能夠對他們的整個族群的一個帶領才有一個平衡的這樣的一個對也是培養相關的這個3D原住民或平地原住民的相關的人才所以我們認為有輪流擔任的一個必要性"},{"start":15020.484,"end":15026.134,"text":"所以如果說一直大家的意見是不一致的那我們就保留送院會處理好謝謝"},{"start":15028.883,"end":15052.294,"text":"臺灣民眾黨請發言臺灣民眾黨不發言接下來請蔡依依跟蘇議長請發言就是事實上大家的目的都是一樣就是希望用人為財那原住民的族委這個原民會的族委可以好好的照顧原住民那我們為什麼一定要把原住民再把他用山園跟平原然後把他做這樣的一個區隔化"},{"start":15052.734,"end":15071.836,"text":"因為真正有意義的區隔是指他的族群像盧凱族阿美族這才是一個有意義的區隔那如果按照這樣的一個條文他叫做輪流擔任那輪流擔任這個輪流這兩個字表示說他不得連任或者是他"},{"start":15073.216,"end":15100.727,"text":"內閣有做替換的時候他就必須要被換就必須要被換的這樣一個概念輪流嘛因為他沒有任期制那你要想如果今天是一個表現很好的一個主委那他遇到這個內閣改組的時候因為輪流所以他不得不得連任了不得繼續當了那這樣的話對於原住民是最好的嗎就是說因為這個政策是一個非常中性的他主要是要用人就是"},{"start":15101.187,"end":15129.998,"text":"找最好的人來擔任這個原住民的族委那你用輪流的話也許一個表現很好的族委他就因為卡在輪流他就下一次就要得換成不同的族委因為這個輪流這兩個字他就等於是說他就把這個等於是把院長的人事權完全卡住了因為他不得連任嘛輪流對啊人才很多但是"},{"start":15133.451,"end":15160.622,"text":"我覺得如果今天是有任期制的那我們來講輪流就是說不得連任的意思那你現在這個輪流下去你就變得非常的狹隘甚至說因為每一個人都會有每一個首長部會首長會有政治責任也可能我今天因為某一些事我因為政治責任下台那下台後又回到這個輪流又要換不同的這樣真的是很怪啦我覺得大家可以再思考一下"},{"start":15161.282,"end":15189.579,"text":"謝謝蔡議員、蘇議長發言,接下來請高金委員請我補充一下,謝謝蔡議員、幹事長您剛剛說的,蘇機長,對不起抱歉您剛剛說的會剝奪行政院長的任用權,並沒有因為行政院長,人民會主委是跟著行政院長的任期更換的他如果這個行政院長離開的話那麼下一個行政院長就要聘用不同的主委所以他沒有,沒有人流這兩個字的卡到他本來就是必須要"},{"start":15190.519,"end":15207.451,"text":"要跟著行政院長的首長來輪替輪替輪替輪替那個叫輪替啦好不好好呃因為李坤正委員第一次出手我們讓李委員發言好不好好李委員請請請"},{"start":15210.528,"end":15235.721,"text":"謝謝院長其實大家就知道說這個用人為財那這個讓有這個才能的人不論是擔任這個民意代表或是擔任這個行政首長那所以我認為說這個原民會組委其實不應該去區分不論是平地原住民或是這個山地原住民我認為都會很優秀但但是就是看說總統或是院長怎麼去任用那其實我們人這個出身也沒有在管"},{"start":15236.241,"end":15254.693,"text":"現在這個民主社會時代沒有再分這個你的族群、省籍等等這些條件所以我是認為說如果是用這一種人流由山地原住民或是平地原住民而人流來擔任我認為會是走回頭路那就像我們也有客委會"},{"start":15255.333,"end":15255.773,"text":"臺灣民眾黨團如果要發言請隨時舉手好嗎?好"},{"start":15285.579,"end":15310.68,"text":"我想提醒就是說基本上那個主任委員他的任期其實並沒有固定沒有被保障的即便是隨院長同進退但同一個院長可能當中也是會聘任搞不好一位以上的這個原民會主委那我想大家比較care的會不會是一個整個原民會"},{"start":15311.841,"end":15335.064,"text":"主委還有各副主委的整個平衡如果是這樣的話我覺得我們可以去考慮就是說萬一今天這個主委是平原的時候那我倒覺得這個下面這個文字去整個副主委的這個三元平原的平衡各族群的平衡我覺得這個倒是可以考慮但是我覺得要"},{"start":15336.145,"end":15364.19,"text":"我還是認為就是說那個因為主委這樣子的輪流確實這個輪流怎麼輪很奇怪是兩次的三元還是兩次的平原我們可以有一個彈性的輪流嗎或者要很硬性規定說平原完了一定是三元三元完了一定是平原那這也會落入另外一個陷阱比如說那之前一將主委擔任了八年那現在換曾主委"},{"start":15365.45,"end":15383.319,"text":"那這個通過之後下一個一定又是平原那萬一不小心曾竺偉沒有坐很久那我後面會不會又變成平原不好意思我舉這個例子啦大家很熟的朋友曾竺偉臉色很難看了請繼續我等一下會安慰他啦那所以我只是舉這個例子我覺得大家太"},{"start":15384.36,"end":15384.9,"text":"大家都強調用人為財"},{"start":15414.548,"end":15443.11,"text":"三地原住民人才很多,平地原住民的人才也很多,所以這個不是問題,絕對會是,我相信行政院長所任用的,不論是三研,下次改為平研,我們人才都很多,所以這個部分不會影響到用人為材,以上。"},{"start":15444.275,"end":15446.518,"text":"這一個條文我從來不會想去區分不同的族群你是族群裡面的誰"},{"start":15460.197,"end":15477.388,"text":"所以說山原平原一直要刻意去凸顯我認為這幾年反而大家要去打破這個隔閡這個過去在殖民時代留下來的劃分的舊的方式這個思維應當是現在社會要去打破的"},{"start":15478.248,"end":15497.43,"text":"可是怎麼會我們在處理原住民族委員會的組織法我認為那非常重要主委的任命是不是彰顯了時代的新的意義我們不再分你是什麼都是疼惜原住民族都是捍衛原住民族權益的專業的人士"},{"start":15498.231,"end":15522.543,"text":"我覺得這才是現在要做﹖我甚至認為朝野應當更有共識的是﹖如果我們真的有能力﹖應當努力去修憲﹖把《徵求台灣》裡頭對於原住民族應分為山園、平原這個東西我覺得是要去打破的所以那是更高層次的東西所以剛剛提到說﹖它確實會去造成行政權用人的限縮啊"},{"start":15523.427,"end":15549.627,"text":"因為我這個,對啊,它一定會造成我選才的一個條件的限制嘛。對不對,像韓院長,您當院長,您也不會說,我本省外省,我哪本省,我的婦嬰就一定要一個外省。我覺得台灣都在打破這樣子的東西。那講到族群,譬如說回到我在那個內政委員會質詢這個題目的時候,我也就想到說,誒,那課委會呢?"},{"start":15550.427,"end":15571.484,"text":"我的辦公室有客家籍的幕僚有說我們是不是要四海大平安也要分這個四縣的當一輪海陸的再來當第二任大埔的第三任饒平的第四任然後這個燒鞍的第五任這個就是很我們要打破的東西所以我是真的覺得"},{"start":15573.336,"end":15576.318,"text":"我今天可能因為某個事情我也許很短命我上任幾個月我就卸任了"},{"start":15589.801,"end":15618.364,"text":"那下一個就被強迫要去找到另外一個那或者是這個主委非常的優秀哦他是山地的那我新的隔壁我還是要留任他啊對他對於整個政策的永續的推動是很有表現的可是就我被迫要去取捨這個大家都很歐落的主委我覺得不要再走回頭路去區分這個所以真的覺得大家都在看我們立法院的立法是不是能夠越來越彰顯時代的精神啊"},{"start":15618.824,"end":15641.923,"text":"所以真的還是希望能夠相著這個條文維持現行條文是比較好的方式好謝謝吳世耀委員的發言陳委員要求短短的發言請我想大家如果擔心這個公平的問題要輪流那這樣子照理來講我們的修法方向應該每一組來輪流啊每一組都應該來擔任組委啊這樣不是比較公平嗎"},{"start":15643.82,"end":15670.032,"text":"我只是舉一個反向的例子讓大家思考,謝謝。好,了解。好,謝謝。台灣民眾黨沒有保證。那各位委員經過黨團各位委員的踴躍發言,我想我們沒有辦法達到共識。我們第三條就保留送院會處理。我們現在進入第四條。市民委員,你的表情有感動嗎?"},{"start":15671.454,"end":15672.136,"text":"你內心有感動嗎?"},{"start":15683.117,"end":15708.994,"text":"因為我們不要再重蹈覆轍用立法的方式去僭越了其他憲法機關它的核心領域人事權的任命真的是行政權的核心領域的範疇我們要再一次用修法立法的方式去剝奪行政權的人事任命權嗎我們真的是要深思這個事我不想我把它放到最後再講因為我以為大家可以有一個共識"},{"start":15711.025,"end":15715.707,"text":"議長,我要再補充一下,就是說剛才講說會剝奪行政院長的任命權,其實我們要特別提醒"},{"start":15730.842,"end":15759.154,"text":"行政院長如果換人那新的行政院長我們就在條文裡面說那你要因為前面那一任是這個是選他是任命比如說是這個平原那你現在新的行政院上來那我們就希望你依照我們這個修法的條文聘任那個這個3D原住民新的行政院長當然他就依照這個規則去走嘛所以這沒有所謂限制他的這個任命權啊"},{"start":15759.574,"end":15775.408,"text":"那你不要怕說比如說現在認識山民現在認識原民那個平地原住民他人才濟濟啊你不要怕什麼會先說他的命權了不會的啦那這樣我們要發白修吧那這樣我們要規定說什麼任命這個女生做完男生做男生做完女生做嗎"},{"start":15788.325,"end":15790.986,"text":"因為輪流這兩個字在法律上沒有這樣的用語沒有這樣的定義啊"},{"start":15808.453,"end":15836.342,"text":"對阿,怎樣才叫做輪流?我們剛剛舉了幾個例子,比方說這個內閣改組的時候,內閣改組讓這個原民會的主委延任,那這樣會不會被輪流這兩個字綁住?因為他延任嘛,延任的話還是說一定是他下台了,然後下一個就一定要換,就會被輪流,這個定義很不清楚。"},{"start":15839.565,"end":15840.686,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":15856.277,"end":15876.91,"text":"第四條原民會委員改五級制請天安委員鄭天才委員請高金委員請發言好謝謝院長大家辛苦了我很快速的把這個第四條五級制的議題跟大家說明一下我認為原民會作為原住民中央行政機關他的組織制度應該要更為嚴謹"},{"start":15878.411,"end":15894.212,"text":"然後要注重專業性還有文化敏感度尤其他要反映各族新生的族群委員可是呢我們看到現行的族群委員制度施行了很多年仍然存在著非常多的問題而人民會一直沒有去處理例如第一個"},{"start":15894.953,"end":15917.356,"text":"的推薦及審查程序沒有法制化。我們可以看到他開放推薦的時間根本就不清楚,這導致我們有非常多基層的族人根本不知道我這個族推薦的是哪一個,或者是他的推薦的機制的存在,因此有非常多少數的人就進行酬庸的工具。"},{"start":15917.876,"end":15944.015,"text":"也因為徵詢各族意見的方式欠缺明確的溝通所以導致了這兩屆我們有非常多的族群委員讓我們部落的族人產生抗議第二件事情就是我們族群委員的薪資他的條件是很這非常的重要根據我們看的預算呢114年度族群委員的人事費高達了2247.6萬"},{"start":15947.597,"end":15961.955,"text":"也就是說一個族群委員他平均的願心是打11.7萬一個人喔我們有16個人喔那他任用的資格只有什麼呢只有具備原住民身份就可以了"},{"start":15962.936,"end":15991.522,"text":"所以我們會看到現在的族群委員他的專業度按照原民會的初步規則他要處理很多事情第一個他要重要議案的先期審查第二個原民會的法規他要先期審查第三個原住民的政策制度計劃他也要做先期的審查等等十項非常對於原住民重要的法案的事務的所以我們認為族群委員他的專業度是非常非常的重要"},{"start":15992.142,"end":16015.831,"text":"也因為常年沒有按照他的專業度來規定他的職權的作為,我們來看一下相對的。對在園民會在場有很多園民會公務人員特考上來的,我們的園民會裡面的專門委員,他們必須經過考試及格,而且還要有十年以上的資歷,他才可以被把著為所謂園民會裡面的專門委員。"},{"start":16018.132,"end":16018.312,"text":"．國民黨黨團提議"},{"start":16033.169,"end":16051.896,"text":"公務員、基層人、青年、努力的年輕人也有相對的剝奪感。然後我們再來看一下,原民會我舉兩個處。一個叫做社福處。他要處理什麼?他要處理原住民的就業、法服、文件站還有等等社會福利的工作。他只有16個人喔!"},{"start":16053.377,"end":16073.235,"text":"只有16個人在處理這麼多的事情。第二個,我們所謂的部落的公共建設,我們講的公建處,它要處理部落裡面的建設,還有住宅、輔導、移居部落、原鄉道路養護等等的部落基礎建設。大家都知道,原住民部落700多個部落,它的人只有多少?16個人。"},{"start":16074.938,"end":16102.697,"text":"所以相對我就拿這兩個處事的人力跟族群委員他們人數是一樣多的16個人然後我們來看一下我們的這些處事他要處理這麼多重要的事情幾乎就不堪負荷了族群委員做什麼事情部落裡面的人都知道根本不是原民會裡面說的這些重要的十項的處理規則現在在做的事情都是跑婚喪喜慶宴會"},{"start":16104.978,"end":16131.087,"text":"就是代表我們的這個組委他如果跑不了婚喪喜慶他就幫忙去跑我們覺得這樣子實在是身為一個原住民的立法委員要把族群委員列為無極值其實我們壓力很大但是呢我們也不能夠相對的剝奪了專業的人才以及剝奪了年輕人這麼努力的公務人員的這個努力的剝奪感所以我有"},{"start":16131.747,"end":16153.198,"text":"具體的建議有兩個。第一個,族群委員改為無給職按照總統府原住民族歷史正義跟轉型正義委員會還有客家委員會組織法委員制度才無給職聘任我們從上而下推舉具有民族代表性的專業系的人才讓他可以非常有熱忱"},{"start":16154.699,"end":16176.26,"text":"的鄰居族群的共識,然後聽取部落的心聲,然後把原住民的族人的先生帶到原民會,代表族群委員。第二個,我們將族群委員的這個兩千多萬的人事費回歸到專業的公務人員,然後將現行的族群委員高額的人事費用來補足正式的公務員。"},{"start":16177.401,"end":16198.135,"text":"然後聘任具有原住民身份和專業素養的人才來解決多年來人力不足的問題來提升原住民族專門事務的效能所以待會我跟曾英才委員也有提出一個附帶決議如果大家對第四條沒有意見的話他的附帶決議就是希望每一年從115年起的這些給族群委員的這些經費轉給原民會"},{"start":16204.839,"end":16232.723,"text":"增加他們真正的專業的人力因為現在人民會的人力實在不足以上謝謝謝謝提案委員、高金委員的說明陳委員您要發言嗎鄭天才委員請準備陳委員不發言沒有你們原住民三個委員發言完我也會請曾主委不發言鄭天才委員請問要不要發言不發言我們請曾我本來想說先讓三位原住民委員先講完我請曾主委你要調整次序沒關係鄭天才委員您要發言嗎"},{"start":16235.615,"end":16254.862,"text":"陳委員要等曾主委之後,您可以先發言,還可以等曾主委之後。好,請曾主委表達意見。好,這個跟主席跟各位委員報告。第一個,這個族群委員從有營民會以來,28年來就有,就不是無幾子嘛。第二個,這28年來的推薦,"},{"start":16258.863,"end":16273.87,"text":"也是一樣,也是以前就沒有說一定有什麼就是可以自建也可以這個這個民主議會來推薦最後整理起來來來就是來擔任這個主席委員那第三個這個主席委員"},{"start":16275.992,"end":16293.746,"text":"與公務員的工作不一樣,你說族群委員,他一定是他熟悉他自己族群的一些問題。比如說你剛剛說的,他是比較熟悉這個他們自己族群的問題。那他這個族群呢,他可以作為我們中央政府、地方政府的橋樑。"},{"start":16295.307,"end":16305.974,"text":"這很重要,這跟公務員不一樣。你甚至一個感恩感恩委員,你要找公務員,他願意來原民委,不會,搞不好你還找不到公務員來當這個組織委員,比如更小的組織委員。第二個,這些組織委員,"},{"start":16311.277,"end":16315.101,"text":"一路到牡丹鄉到臺東的達人、金峰是這麼樣的遼闊所以當然要有心水因為原住民的服務不能沒有"},{"start":16330.077,"end":16338.421,"text":"不能免費,因為他光是這樣往緩,對他個人來講當然是我們世界要領薪水,因為他服務的地方非常遼闊,所以當然我們可以檢討我們未來臨險的機制,是不是說我們是不是交給民主議會他們來推薦,或者是說我們是不是有其他的"},{"start":16357.704,"end":16385.105,"text":"臨時的這個機制我們來做檢討來做修正但是我認為要給原住民就是說當族群委員又要讓他沒有領薪水剛剛講的高居委員講說把這個錢用來再去聘公務員這個非常難啊這個公務員的這個整個的控管非常的嚴格而且你不一定找得到適合做部落跟政府的這個中間橋樑的人"},{"start":16386.886,"end":16415.681,"text":"因為公務員跟族群委員不一樣啊公務員的做法我相信主席也很清楚還有我們這些族群委員我們嫌的要嘛他就是當過鄉民代表要嘛他就是當過議員要嘛他就是當過區長至少他熟悉他自己部落的一些義務我們才臨險上來的所以這個部分我想還是要跟各位委員拜託一下謝謝謝謝曾主委接下來陳委員跟鄭田委員哪位先發言"},{"start":16418.279,"end":16446.654,"text":"陳議員、政見長委員請準備。我想先請教韓院長一件事情。您有兩位有幾職的顧問。對不對?是吧?那這是按照立法院組織法有兩位有幾職的顧問。那我想這兩位有幾職的顧問因為要協助韓院長做立院相關的事務。所以呢不管他是什麼政黨的"},{"start":16447.014,"end":16447.174,"text":"．國民黨黨團提議．"},{"start":16460.903,"end":16485.692,"text":"或是這兩位偶爾幫院長跑什麼行程立委覺得不合理那我們也不會就提案把他給刪了至少我沒有幹過這些事情所以我就是比較一下提一下因為韓院長用人你要用的顧問您去挑您去指定那或許您會接受很多人各界的推薦但是那個就是韓院長的人這是第一點那另外"},{"start":16487.955,"end":16510.947,"text":"另外我要提的是就是說其他像客委會的這些委員他們其實性質不太一樣這是一個諮詢他們是一個諮詢的委員那工作分量也沒有像原住民的委員這樣子那個就是對不起原住民的這個聘用委員一樣那再來就是說"},{"start":16514.889,"end":16539.177,"text":"這個我要特別講一下因為我不知道高金委員他是指說誰跑的婚喪喜慶但是我覺得以這一屆來講待會主委應該要說明一下這一屆的聘用委員他們到底做了什麼事賦予了什麼任務這一段上任之後這段時間他們到底做了什麼是不是每天都在跑婚喪喜慶我覺得你們這個主委要說明清楚不然這個對現在的這些委員們都是一個很大的侮辱"},{"start":16539.717,"end":16566.056,"text":"因為至少我知道裡面有些人他們有些我認識他們確實就是真的很優秀而且很專業那再來就是說好那到底是不是酬庸那在過去喔還有這個推薦人的部分其實推薦一樣嘛政委員你也有推薦啊那只是主委要用誰那只是主委自己要去決定的事情嘛"},{"start":16567.152,"end":16588.945,"text":"因為至少你說推薦人上次念了一堆也有你的名字在裡面真的啦你不要搖頭啦真的有啦要不要拿給你看等一下拿到你前面我幫你不談我可以談一下沒有關係啊那到底是不是酬庸在過去就是說過去"},{"start":16590.017,"end":16591.118,"text":"．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議"},{"start":16607.367,"end":16630.036,"text":"提這些這一屆的族群委員他們實質上已經短短的這個上任時間沒有多久但是真的做了很多事情這個你要替他們講清楚還有他們到底薪資的部分是怎麼領的你也要說明清楚也沒有像立委講的說怎麼到十幾萬這個要講清楚"},{"start":16633.783,"end":16661.197,"text":"陳議員謝謝你我們立法院組織法第二三條規定我們立法院設兩個顧問是完全正確但兩位都是公務員特別跟您報告一下接下來請鄭天宅委員請發言本席提這個案是在今年的四月就提了所以跟這個現在的族群委員沒有關係所以這個部分這個跟院長跟各黨團來做說明這個原住民族委員會"},{"start":16662.908,"end":16687.117,"text":"會有專任的也就是聘用的族群委員不是行政院版不是當年民國85年成立之前的這個組織法行政院版並沒有是原住民的立法委員的提案當初有他的一個非常好的一個政策的目的"},{"start":16688.052,"end":16697.492,"text":"但是這個前面之前的主任委員基本上都非常好我們就以這個陳建聯主任委員的時代"},{"start":16699.744,"end":16728.175,"text":"最起碼都是議員、代表甚至立法委員都具有各族群的代表性當初陳穎委員的父親當了人民會的主任委員的時候的族群委員都具有各族群的代表性都具有專業最主要是這方面可以代表這個族群那我們這個族群委員現在回歸到"},{"start":16729.71,"end":16754.502,"text":"如果改為無籍職的話就是跟客家委員會一樣我們就是說他一樣你說我們到底是不是諮詢的政策各方面就不足了?不會!人民會一樣可以有這個無籍職的族群委員可以徵詢他們的意見何況我們也有很多的"},{"start":16755.892,"end":16775.399,"text":"縣市議員、鄉鎮市長、原住民的鄉長、原住民的議員都可以提供意見所以不會影響到政策的方向的決定所以這個不論是實施這麼多年來因為當初提案的"},{"start":16776.952,"end":16806.013,"text":"所創這個族群委員要專職聘用委員的看到目前這幾年的狀況真的是搖頭了所以我提這個案是今年四月就提的跟現在的這些我從來不提個案所以這個部分是這樣這個陳委員所提的之前林江一主委時代的那一位委員他不是國民黨喔"},{"start":16806.849,"end":16833.841,"text":"是親民黨的喔你講那個紅金服是親民黨的喔不是我推薦的是親民黨推薦了之後親民黨推薦了之後當時的主任委員問我這個適不適合我說他可以代表都會期我從來沒有都會期的當時啦所以我說他可以代表都會期是林江壹主委問我的意見是當初是親民黨推薦的以上"},{"start":16835.705,"end":16860.365,"text":"我現在想聽一下黨團幹部的意見請吳思瑤幹事長請發言然後請國民黨團準備聽了剛剛幾位原民委員的發言都很有收穫那我想我們要討論的是如果委員認為對於現任的這些族群委員的工作狀態或是專業的適任與否有意見"},{"start":16861.578,"end":16862.319,"text":"而不是現在一竿子似乎幾位委員對於現在的"},{"start":16885.279,"end":16907.406,"text":"主席委員感覺不太滿意就要大道一揮砍掉人家應當有的payment而且真的不要再舉克委會的諮詢委員跟總統府的這個這個這個叫做什麼原住民轉型建議委員會的委員因為他們是諮詢的性質是久久來開一次會跟原民會的"},{"start":16908.947,"end":16929.285,"text":"這個臨聘的族群委員他是每天要上班的完全性質是大不相同所以不可同日而遇那講我們對於所有的公務體系裡面的同仁他都有他的任期的保障跟他的待遇"},{"start":16930.226,"end":16930.266,"text":"．國民黨團提議"},{"start":16945.424,"end":16963.261,"text":"主委還在任．主委任命的他突然昨天還有薪水明天事情之日由立法院定之就沒有薪水了我們對於信賴保護的原則這是法律的基本的原則所以立法委員沒有這麼大的權力"},{"start":16964.591,"end":16993.625,"text":"我認為誰好我就給他高一點的薪水我認為誰不好我今天就砍光他的薪水這個任期的信賴保障的原則這個我們都要兼顧而且打開天窗說亮話啦大家都是在政治圈工作這麼久的人今天不管誰執政國民黨執政國民黨任命的原民會主委就可以去聆聘他要的族群委員"},{"start":16994.696,"end":16995.4,"text":"今天民進黨執政民進黨所"},{"start":16999.181,"end":17025.537,"text":"邀請入閣的原民會主委．他就有他的人事任命權去邀請當然還有一定的舉薦跟聆聽的過程可是我們也不會在民進黨是在野的時候就來質疑國民黨的原民會的主委他的族群委員就一定不是任有問題然後要砍光他的薪水我覺得不可以這樣子那回到剛剛我們在講的第三條"},{"start":17027.028,"end":17047.044,"text":"我們都還在爭論說對於人民會的主委的身份要不要去區分山園跟平原我們要的是認為不要區分而且要增進各個16個族之間彼此的理解誰能夠為這個族群做最大的努力他的專業性最好我們就認為他是一個好的主委"},{"start":17047.845,"end":17068.851,"text":"那為什麼有這16個族也許16個族群委員就是要幫助原民會去落實跟每一個族的溝通他需要的工作政策的調整就是要去增進這些的融合的工作所以怎麼會氏族有他不覺得第三條跟第四條有一點邏輯錯誌嗎所以"},{"start":17072.419,"end":17100.88,"text":"講回法律的原則對於公務同仁體系的信賴保護原則立法委員是不應當用修法我今天有幾時明天便無幾職這個我想我們這個未來的行政訴訟吃不完兜著走保障公務同仁的這個權利那退換不嚴很多人民也認為很多立委不適任那我們是不是提案立委就一樣無幾職好了"},{"start":17102.324,"end":17120.386,"text":"是不是這些族群委員也有一定的領聘制度如果委員們覺得對於現在的有不夠不夠適任的地方我剛說了要做的是去精進領聘的制度或是讓他更透明公開或是強化他的資格任用的背景條件應當是這樣做"},{"start":17122.128,"end":17146.239,"text":"而不是現在去把別人從有幾值變無幾值信賴保障原則在哪裡那主委你回答一下你任命的那今天修了這個法這些人突然沒了薪水那他他可以他可以提告這要誰來負這個責任他他提告可以提提告提案的委員嗎"},{"start":17148.086,"end":17148.586,"text":"曾主委,請補充發言,林士明書記長請準備。"},{"start":17164.4,"end":17184.7,"text":"剛剛那個委員講一個委員他就是說他可能是辭掉其他的工作現在來上班也才兩個月那麼簽約的時候就是他的任期我做八個月他就做八個月我做一年他就跟著我做一年這是有政治任命的"},{"start":17186.281,"end":17214.655,"text":"我再一次重複講他們很辛苦他們還要做工程的會堪還要做一些這個活動的活動有時候去主持甚至於很多的這個會議也要協助主持還有處理一些人民的陳情案然後你看看他們那個範圍是那麼樣的遼闊這個真的需要這些族群委員這不是公務人員能做的事情因為他們平常跟教會也好跟部落也好的互動"},{"start":17215.735,"end":17233.524,"text":"是很好的,我們要藉助他們在地方上的實力來增加我們的這個為民服務的量能。而且這個從28年來一直做,為什麼獨獨到現在就一下子把人家變成無極者,這個也沒有道理啊。"},{"start":17234.204,"end":17234.344,"text":"國民黨團書記長林思明委員"},{"start":17262.456,"end":17289.063,"text":"委員長我想這個原住民族就是族群委員會你有幾職我們看到就是說產生了弊端就是淪為這個政黨酬庸的一個工具聘任的人是不是真的有他的專業度我想這個高軍委員在委員會也做出很多的質詢甚至在他的這個臉書也說明了非常多我就不再贅述了其實我想講的就是說"},{"start":17290.163,"end":17319.763,"text":"如果說把這些就呼應剛才高進委員講的你把這些這個2000多萬的這些啊這個薪水你不如去增加更多的工作人員啊更多的員額更專業的人進到我們原民會來服務可能會比去外聘這些所謂的諮詢委員諮詢委員更有效益更能保障原民的權益那我因為我是客家人我再講一下客家了"},{"start":17320.169,"end":17320.19,"text":"案。（"},{"start":17320.799,"end":17349.64,"text":"那客家的委員我也遇到非常多啊他們沒有領錢但是他很有榮譽感欸他到地方那個我是客家的委員會的委員主動會跟大家來了解很有熱忱啊他不在乎薪水他在乎的是這個榮譽感我能夠為我們客家族群來服務所以當初這個設計成為我們天才講的這真的是有問題實行到現在既然有弊端那我們就要改啊"},{"start":17350.521,"end":17368.669,"text":"改成跟其他族群委會一樣啊改成無脊植啊然後把這些錢用到我們真正的這個能夠為原民來服務的人身上了還有那個年年我剛才釋揚那個法制面我也想提一下如果說法修過了"},{"start":17369.449,"end":17394.012,"text":"這些人該怎麽樣子去讓他領相關的不管是補償或者支遣費我們就按照相關的規定去走嘛你不用擔心說這個他們怎麽會失業啊這個白拼任就是這樣子啊那你看說信賴保護員年改你有去兼顧我們這些公務人員他的一個權益嗎你還溯及既往啊"},{"start":17395.311,"end":17416.235,"text":"這個就已經完全違反信賴保護原則了。我們尊重發言委員好不好。所以我想說這個不要去講這個啦。制度既然有問題我們就應該予以修改。謝謝。接下來請蔡議員跟書記長發言的之後我要進行處理。請蔡書記長。我剛剛這樣聽,事實上我感覺有點難過。為什麼跑婚喪喜慶講得這麼不堪?"},{"start":17424.039,"end":17446.105,"text":"我們每一個立委我們都是跑婚喪喜慶啊但是我們跑婚喪神慶我們才能接觸到更多人聽到更多不同的聲音啊為什麼要把跑婚喪喜慶就等於是不好的把它醜化所以我想本身呃人民會他不是獨立機關他是"},{"start":17448.161,"end":17471.234,"text":"行政院長任命,然後這個主委再去找對於他在實施政策他覺得對他有幫助的人那為什麼我們需要原民會的這些委員,大概有幾指,第一個是原住民的轄區很大第二個是原住民不同族群之間的語言不一樣"},{"start":17472.421,"end":17486.033,"text":"包括組委也有他的他自己的族群所以他台灣主他跟其他的語言不一致的時候他需要不同的這樣的一個委員然後給他一些地方聽到的意見"},{"start":17487.635,"end":17502.885,"text":"所以這些委員他很認真去跑婚喪喜慶因為他依據聘用條例他領了這個錢他很認真去跑你以為你身為原民會的委員你去跑婚喪喜慶不會有人跟他陳情嗎?"},{"start":17503.846,"end":17526.688,"text":"一定會有啊,一定會聽到很多我們希望主委再拿一些政策,要再精進,要再替原住民的福利再大力爭取,那些都是在那些跑婚喪喜慶才會有這樣的一些基層的聲音嘛。我們每一個委員,我們都是為基層出心的,我們都是為跑婚喪喜慶,然後我們才跟人民拼命。"},{"start":17527.429,"end":17555.261,"text":"然後聽到這些聲音那為什麼現在要把跑婚喪喜慶替我們主委來分擔他的工作替他去做他的分身在地方廣聽原住民的心聲這件事講得這麼不堪然後要把他們的薪水把他砍成無幾值然後讓他們去跑在地方跑的時候然後就變得說那麼大然後他的成本很大然後他沒辦法跑"},{"start":17556.101,"end":17571.589,"text":"我覺得這樣的一個修法不好啦因為剛主委說這已經二十幾年了嘛我也敢預判啦齁這個如果哪一天國民黨回到執政黨了他會把他修回來啦他一定把他修回來的啦你再講你會被黨紀處分"},{"start":17574.105,"end":17597.778,"text":"所以我是覺得不要每次政黨輪替就去修這種東西這個都帶有羞辱人的一個意味好不好那接下來兩位原住民委員要要求再發言我們再請陳議員跟高靜委員再發言一下以後我們做處理好嗎好請陳議員你舉手請不用客氣請謝謝主席你坐請坐嘛不是因為我想站著起坐比較好"},{"start":17599.26,"end":17604.512,"text":"因為我覺得這件事是這樣啦我們努力在這邊協商啦齁那因為"},{"start":17605.905,"end":17631.26,"text":"如果大家沒有結論最後還是表決處理可能我們表決也還是會輸但我覺得該講該澄清的事情我們還是要把它講清楚我覺得今天從一開始提案到整個協商的過程其實對於這一屆的族群委員這些聘用委員其實有很多的很多的這個侮辱的這個臆測跟形容那我不管過去"},{"start":17632.7,"end":17659.736,"text":"發生什麼事情或者各位委員對他們有什麼意見我覺得都不應該就認定現在這一屆的族群委員就一定是什麼樣子我真的覺得要給他們時間讓大家去檢視而且確實在這很短的時間他們真的很努力做了很多的事情也不是都一直在跑婚喪喜慶再來就是我要特別提的就是說"},{"start":17661.038,"end":17674.999,"text":"講到剛剛韓院長不好意思我講的那兩個顧問沒關係沒關係好那就是那兩個顧問其實是剛好您上任之後剛好遇到這兩位是公務人員以前都不是公務人員"},{"start":17678.268,"end":17686.037,"text":"反正重點就是那是要幫韓院長的人,韓院長自己決定要用誰嗎?我即便再看怎麼不順眼,我也是可以修法的啊,對不對?"},{"start":17697.711,"end":17724.319,"text":"但是我們沒有這樣因為我們理解嘛好所以這個部分那最後我就把握最後發言機會我提醒一下因為鄭委員不好意思我剛剛你可能誤會我講我不是講那個特定什麼人我上次講我上次講那一位你說議員什麼但是因為他穿著您的背心是您的助理所以我就特別講了一下因為你們提的我就提了一下那再來再來再來就是說"},{"start":17725.399,"end":17739.977,"text":"因為這一屆您確實也有推薦雖然是3D原住民我跟你講這個是原民會的紀錄上次那個高金委員那一份我借來參考了一下我也有看到鄭天才委員推薦人也是有"},{"start":17741.876,"end":17760.461,"text":"但是我就講那一份可能不精確啊因為我們那麼多都被點名了我也講說那個有錯誤如果有錯誤你自己去跟原民會講這個是原民會的資料推薦人是您然後再來過去酬庸的話不好意思那大家要這樣講我也是把握最後機會講一下這邊"},{"start":17762.722,"end":17782.054,"text":"以前的族群委員泰雅族,這位啦,他原來的名字你們發音我不是很清楚,但是高精英委員,您的以前主任的老婆嘛,那這樣是不是酬庸啊?這個我們也可以質疑,但是他擔任的時候我們大家也都沒有講什麼啊。"},{"start":17783.154,"end":17811.292,"text":"我們也是都尊重嘛那我覺得還是要這個未來你說這一屆大家簽約就是跟跟主委同進退那我們如果開了這樣子的先例那在這一屆大家因為前面有什麼不滿意就把他們的這個薪水的給付就這樣咖掉了我覺得第一個侮辱人第二個政府沒有誠信原則啊"},{"start":17812.133,"end":17827.352,"text":"當然就是訴訟就會一直不斷的訴訟那到底要怎麼處理我就特別在這邊提出這樣子的一些問題大家好好考慮一下好 謝謝謝謝陳議員接下來我們請高靜雯發言人你要不要站起來"},{"start":17831.414,"end":17842.169,"text":"有禮坐著就可以了我先跟大家報告一下對於第四條的這個修正案我們在委員會已經討論了很久然後在這邊"},{"start":17844.262,"end":17862.786,"text":"韓院長的草野協商之下,我覺得應該講得更高層次的一些例子。那我就不再回應陳穎委員對於這一屆有什麼樣的所謂的仇擁,那是民眾黨的黃國昌委員在委員會裡面提供的資訊,大家有空可以去看委員會裡面的這個諮詢。"},{"start":17865.367,"end":17881.502,"text":"我就高一點我來說103年在修正原民會的組織法的時候我就極度的要求原民會必須要來修正族群委員的聆聘辦法但是一直到現在並沒有"},{"start":17882.162,"end":17910.084,"text":"我也非常遺憾103年的時候我們在草野協商的時候我的建議沒有被接納因為大家都知道草野協商很快速嘛當時我們只讓屏東的文化中心把它列為三級機關那個時候大家的工房都在那一塊事實上我也要求園民會在所謂的族群聆聘不管哪一個政黨都必須要回歸到他的正常的聆聘的規範這是我先講的"},{"start":17910.865,"end":17929.84,"text":"第二點我非常的遺憾也難過我們的族委居然在這裡會講說我們立法委員希望把族群委員每個月11.7萬的這樣子跑婚喪喜慶的這個錢是不是把它來補足於公務人員的不足"},{"start":17931.181,"end":17959.239,"text":"因為在103年的時候我就說原民我們有附帶決議要求喔要求原民會還有要請行政院的主計總處等機關要配合把原民會的員額從195個人要核實增加到280個人就是因為原民會掌管的事務就像一個小內閣一樣他要跑的是全國的我現在在幫原民會的公務人員講話"},{"start":17960.76,"end":17970.002,"text":"第二、三件事情我剛剛提到的不管是社福處、不管是公建處你知道他們的人事費都沒有族群委員的高"},{"start":17971.53,"end":17996.166,"text":"而且他們都是要實質等以上才領不到八萬塊的薪水這不是相對的剝奪感嗎他們的專業度他們是如何幫原民會在做事情大家要來看一下原民會的出物歸程裡面哪裡有我們族群委員要跑婚喪喜慶哪裡有哪裡有寫說他們要幫公建處去會刊"},{"start":17997.387,"end":18001.191,"text":"蔡書記長你說的我們跑婚喪喜慶不要侮辱是沒錯我沒有要侮辱婚喪喜慶我們都跑但是如果在婚喪喜慶碰到陳情案沒有鄉長沒有代表沒有議員沒有立委嗎"},{"start":18012.663,"end":18030.774,"text":"他難道不會跟我們來澄清嗎來澄清嗎所以沒有語言的問題我告訴你語言的族群委員就算是花蓮的阿美族的族群代表臺東跟花蓮都不一樣他不見得彼此認識"},{"start":18032.415,"end":18056.348,"text":"你了解嗎?就算是我泰雅族和平區選出來的族群代表依然的大同鄉的泰雅族不見得認識所以我才會講如果大家都講說我們的族群委員要幫人民會做事我們倒不如讓他們真的熱情的來做事嘛然後就按照他們想要做的事情來做而不是現在的規範的處於規範你知道現在的處於規程要做什麼嗎?"},{"start":18059.89,"end":18073.746,"text":"很多重要議案要掀起審查你知道嗎我們的聘任委員還有分一個叫做專家學者這些是無幾值的他們要給人民會多少的意見然後他們"},{"start":18075.091,"end":18103.75,"text":"聘任的條件要什麼你知道嗎?他們聘任的條件要對原住民教育、學術、語言、文字、音樂、文化、藝術、體育、技藝等方面的研究有相當照義或者是有專門著作或者是有關創作或在文物保存上享有相當的評價這個是無幾值的專家學者、原住民在幫原民會在做的事情而現在的族群委員也是同樣要做這樣的事情可是呢"},{"start":18104.13,"end":18126.863,"text":"我沒有污蔑所謂的喜慶婚喪他也許要幫我們的諸位跑一些東西但是也請他們回歸到他們應該要有的制度上面好不好我再講我沒有因為民進黨執政或國民黨執政我就講這件事情我一直以來身為無黨籍的委員我就希望原民會能夠來在他們的所謂的這個聆聽要點好好的來做現在已經幾年了他們有公開透明嗎"},{"start":18132.526,"end":18148.766,"text":"如果今天有公開透明的話就不會有民眾黨今天在委員會裡面把16個族群委員有14個族群委員都是民進黨你們的人所以才會引起那麼大的風暴嘛才會引起那麼多部落的族人的抗議嘛不是如此嗎?謝謝"},{"start":18150.677,"end":18152.258,"text":"本案已經超過一個月的冷凍期,我們今天協商。"},{"start":18167.324,"end":18191.123,"text":"沒有共識。那麼針對第三條、第四條、第七條,它都是配套的。我們就送院會處理。我們今天協商到此為止。請問一下院長,那送院會處理,那有後續什麼發言啊,什麼東西要講一下?我們照一系規則嘛。不是照一系規則什麼?就通常會有推派代表什麼的,要不要現在來講一下?"},{"start":18196.965,"end":18204.229,"text":"今天我們協商到此為止,非常感謝各黨團幹部也謝謝原住民曾主委跟各位原住民列席的官員,謝謝大家,我們散會。"},{"start":18226.067,"end":18232.295,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":18242.919,"end":18243.78,"text":"每個人隨便登記發言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}