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謝謝今天下午大家不共參加我們針對發展觀光條例在上次委員會通過的部分進行我們這個朝野黨團的協商那我們現在在進行協商之前先介紹一下今天在場出席的委員林佩翔委員黃建豪委員以及游浩委員"},{"start":1926.567,"end":1952.6,"text":"那也特別謝謝我們今天部長陳世凱部長也親自到現場放心啦這個不用到不用你待會要趕場我知道今天看這樣的協調的話速度應該還蠻快的好以及我們周永輝署長喔次長又來你不是等一下才輪班嗎先到了好以及我們政務次長陳彥博次長來再起立次"},{"start":1955.93,"end":1982.224,"text":"好 大家相關的我們部裡面署裡面的各位夥伴一起以及我們法務部廖章健參事 謝謝以及文化部沈長在因為沒有寫職務以及文化部的代表還有咧 還有國防部的代表張景泰是主任嗎"},{"start":1984.192,"end":1984.432,"text":"委員林國臣委員"},{"start":2011.837,"end":2036.985,"text":"我們今天進行黨團這個協商那今天協商的主要針對於上次有兩個條文進行協商第一個我們針對於第七十之二條那我們這個各位有補充意見嗎因為我們在上次通過的是按照陳雪生委員的版本通過那各位對於"},{"start":2039.017,"end":2055.397,"text":"內容這個部分有什麼要說明補充或者要透過協調來說明的說明一下你們是照陳雪生版本通過還是內容有什麼樣需要微調的部分"},{"start":2055.908,"end":2073.233,"text":"是跟朝野跟各位委員報告一下因為雪生委員後來也有提補充說明就是他原來的那個要訂定這個管理要點的部分他同意刪除但是站在交通部觀光署的立場我們希望發展觀光條例第七十之二條"},{"start":2074.173,"end":2083.997,"text":"仍然維持最多十年至一百一十四年的十二月年底其他部分按照原條文維持以上這兩點的補充報告麻煩昭委及各位委員支持"},{"start":2099.271,"end":2118.062,"text":"來所以剛剛署長是完全沒有新意啊就是還是之前立場的欸你不是說有些要調整啊沒有齁還沒弄好兩點嘛第一點就是第一個年限嘛齁就是延五年第二個的部分就是要你們一年一年之內包括什麼"},{"start":2119.687,"end":2147.304,"text":"不是就是不是延五年就是本來是114年的1月22號就是延到12月的31號就是同年的114年第二個就是不要另訂要點這是因為協商過那那個今天好像雪生委員也有特別提一個案就是是為此不調整不修正那個要點是就是這兩點補充報告"},{"start":2150.572,"end":2166.541,"text":"好那各位看到這個在桌上的這一本第43頁是討論第43頁那目前通過的版本第七十之二條它的內容是這樣與本條例中華民國104年1月22號修正施行前非以營利"},{"start":2177.353,"end":2200.675,"text":"為目的且供特定對象住宿場所而有營業事實者應予展延五年至一百一十九年一月二十一日這是第一段就是再延五年接下來就是自本修正條文公佈之日一年內由中央主管機關訂定本法"},{"start":2202.847,"end":2231.116,"text":"於一百零四年前原列之特定住宿對象這個管理辦法統一管理制你是對後段比較希望調整因為學中文也有來嘛對對是就是那個不用再另訂的就維持原條文就是由官方飯店跟一般旅館跟民宿他按照目前的管理辦法就可以了不用再另訂管理辦法好那就"},{"start":2232.726,"end":2257.337,"text":"這個觀光署的建議啦建議就是說它延五年喔那延五年我們是堅持我們的立場但是後面這個另訂啊回溯到一百零四年另訂一個特殊這個特定對象因為特定對象我們在前面定義的時候我們把它刪掉了所以特定對象因為沒定義是不是我們下次修法的時候再來處理這一部分好不好"},{"start":2258.274,"end":2270.363,"text":"那這樣的好不好?這邊有一個修正的一個版本我需要大家有嗎?有沒有?印出來?好,麻煩印給大家了但我先念一下啦與本條例中華民國104年1月22號修正施行前非以營利為目的且供特定對象住宿場所而有營利之事實者"},{"start":2288.052,"end":2298.421,"text":"因自本條例修正後修正施行之日起十年再展延五年至109年1月21日向地方主管機關申請旅館業登記"},{"start":2310.769,"end":2334.125,"text":"領取登記證及專用標章使得繼續營業那這個的部分後段就是原有條文的內容那但是日程的部分我們就再展延五年到119年1月21號那不用另訂這個部分啦如果有需要我們在下次修法的時候另案再來討論那我們就用這個新的"},{"start":2335.302,"end":2340.828,"text":"文修正草案 確定延誤年 後面另定辦法 未來以後再來詳細談我們要做成這樣一個協調 國通委員 政黨協調有沒有什麼意見這個是我們觀光組提出來的嗎"},{"start":2357.304,"end":2386.383,"text":"我們觀光署還是維持原來希望是維持原來10年那最多是考慮到一些那只有10年的部分就是到114年的年底我們的建議是這個版本那主席這個是雪生修的是吧對對對我們這邊提的修的把下面因為一年以內要立什麼辦法那個另外我以後另外處理我覺得部長也來啦那署長也來啊你們什麼都不要"},{"start":2388.125,"end":2409.879,"text":"你們到底什麼叫做發展觀光條例你們根本就是不是發展什麼觀光條例嘛所以一個就是你們要提出特別的管理辦法來輔導他讓他有就地合法我們講了老半天你們也不聽那我不曉得那你們要幹嘛你們到年底要幹嘛"},{"start":2411.192,"end":2434.027,"text":"那你們有辦法去輔導他嗎?事實上上面延了那些時間是有少部分的已經合法化了那你再給他延個五年我跟你講仁至義盡我給你五年你還是不能成立那我就公事公辦這個在做任何事情"},{"start":2435.273,"end":2464.369,"text":"人家情離華嘛你不要把華抬在前面嘛那如果是這個你們是同意那那個訂定一個辦法那以後再講無所謂但是你這個時間你們要去把握嘛因為我記得你們上次有一個報告已經輔導也有二十幾家嘛那你這五年當中我給你們這些人再給你們五年啊你們都做不到那你不能怪我政府啊"},{"start":2465.819,"end":2492.336,"text":"所以我是建議不定有時候這些東西當然當然就是要考慮到很多面的問題這是要促進觀光並非是要縱容而是歷史上我已經告訴你們了政府國產署只要72年以前所成立的東西他們也不強制啊"},{"start":2493.755,"end":2505.62,"text":"本院交通委員會報告併案審查委員及第七十三條之二條文修正草案：本院交通委員會報告併案審查委員及第七十三條之二條文修正草案：本院交通委員及第七十三條之二條文修正草案：本院交通委員及第七十三條之二條文修正草案：本院交通委員及第七十三條之二條文修正草案：本院交通委員及第七十三條之二條文修正草案：本院交通委員及第七十三條之二條文修正草案：本院交通委員及第七十三條之二條文修正草案："},{"start":2520.407,"end":2542.5,"text":"其他的問題 土地的變更問題 租賃的問題 你們要去解決啊我辦法給你們 不能解決 我坦白講 你們應該要去輔導他像那個國土署 他沒有辦法解決的 你們要用怎麼行政的東西讓他去變通 變成合法化"},{"start":2543.496,"end":2572.508,"text":"那我說實在那你們過去為什麼會去縱容他所以我一直在強調這是歷史上的違規歷史上的違規政府當然也要負責任啊政府是沿系啊不管你是國民黨也好誰執政也好本來就是為什麼會縱容他更何況喔有些 有些喔有些這些寄存的東西他們都有建造喔"},{"start":2573.735,"end":2597.616,"text":"只是我們這個條例是他建立以後是我們的條例才開始來管理它所以這個部分我真的要建議部長還有署長要有一個通融行政通融的做法不能你們這樣一年一年怎麼處理他要變更他要變更或者國土署要幫忙都沒有辦法幫忙"},{"start":2598.797,"end":2622.755,"text":"所以我還是建議現在這個是經過你們協調如果能延五年這個我跟你講政府已經仁至義盡踩得很硬五年後你沒有辦法去做到我的管理標準那對不起你不能怪我們所以我是建議這個延五年我是認為我們政府也不要那麼強硬"},{"start":2624.121,"end":2624.361,"text":"委員許宇甄等20人擬具"},{"start":2647.412,"end":2673.386,"text":"那下一次再來定但是這五年時間給他他們再做不好那不能怪我們政府我是比較主張延五年其他可以先不要定定但是在這個部分政府還是要有一個通融啦不是西班班啦啊這個我跟你講這牽涉太廣好不好好請陳雪生委員把那個調整的內容說明一下昨天那個署長到我辦公室來嘛齁我們延伸這個問題"},{"start":2675.982,"end":2683.514,"text":"這裏面有變化,請問這張誰寫的?是你的意思還是交通部的意思?應該是我們觀光署的一個建議意見"},{"start":2690.25,"end":2713.926,"text":"他們有說如果說這個在延五年不變但是後面確認一下文字可以調成這樣但是剛剛有說啦他們的立場還是到年底我沒有同意他後面這一段啦我是同意的是昨天我有簽字那個啊我簽字不是這一張啦我簽字那個後面沒有這些字眼啦"},{"start":2715.294,"end":2734.375,"text":"後面沒有人字眼我看一下好不好因為組長你是跟我講你是跟我講只是變動字這是我之前的嗎 不是吧"},{"start":2736.277,"end":2762.539,"text":"不是啊,我修正的是只是講說104年、10年再展延五年,只是講再展延五年就沒有啦,下面就沒有啦。就之前法例後面是這樣寫的啦,就等於說沒有變動就接上來。那後面不寫行嗎?照國城英雄的意見,好不好來。"},{"start":2764.895,"end":2791.722,"text":"好 有話委員 有沒有意見那這樣好不好因為今天這個政黨協商因為目前看起來民進黨沒有出席所以因為政黨協商這個可能沒有辦法有具體的結論那我們是不是如果沒有其他意見我們就把原來我們通過的版本加上今天學生委員協商協調的那個條文的部分一併送院長來做進一步的院會的協商"},{"start":2794.54,"end":2795.381,"text":"文修...文修...好"},{"start":2823.854,"end":2848.368,"text":"那這樣的我們今天的一個協商因為有政黨沒有出席但是還是可以討論討論結果就是我們學生委員自己有提出來一個優化的一個版本我們併著原案原案送我們院會由院長召集協商所以本案建請院長召集協商各位有沒有同不同意"},{"start":2849.431,"end":2870.271,"text":"好,沒有其他意見喔?好,那我們正式作成建請院長召集協商,針對於七十九條的部分。好,以上。好,接下來還有五十三條,也要討論的是保留送院會處理啊。這個,觀光署要不要講一下,當時保留的大家點在哪裡?"},{"start":2871.384,"end":2898.533,"text":"對 也特別報告一下就是我們是有關於這些旅行社有一些條文是五十三條譬如說他在國外丟包那確實是按照五十三條的基本精神來講確實對我們國家的這些榮譽、聲譽確實是有損所以這件事情我們還是希望能夠維持原條文好 原本我們委員的發言我還記得就是擔心"},{"start":2900.014,"end":2913.442,"text":"就是給你這些這個你的用途太廣就是你想到什麼就用了就開罰了大家擔心這個啦好不好那這個的部分各位委員有沒有53條有沒有其他意見"},{"start":2916.284,"end":2916.604,"text":"黃建華委員"},{"start":2934.997,"end":2949.406,"text":"那這個部分你看一下我過去這些年案我跟你們調資料你這些年開罰的比例的案例有幾個一個就是民國95年好說今天就丟包旅客所以變成經媒體批鬥之後影響國家形象電入國家榮譽所以開罰他15萬"},{"start":2951.187,"end":2965.81,"text":"第二條及第七十三條之二條文修正草案第二條及第七十三條之二條文修正草案第三條及第七十三條之二條文修正草案第三條及第七十三條之二條文修正草案第三條及第七十三條之二條文修正草案第三條及第七十三條之二條文修正草案第三條及第七十三條之二條文修正草案"},{"start":2981.329,"end":3001.643,"text":"這跟電入國家容易損害國家利益我覺得沒有這個必然關係那剛剛提到的案例比如說地下會對這部分應該有其他的法律可以處理那因為疫情發生事情的時候當時也有這個特別條例可以處理所以這些東西我就覺得說你把它放在觀光業裡面好像變成這個架在業者上面的一個刀子那"},{"start":3002.503,"end":3021.33,"text":"所以我們那時候我看那個許宇甄委員的意思是說如果要認定的話應該是經由法院認定那上次說要經由法院認定的時候這個司法院又說沒有相關的法律所以要去定義這件事情非常困難那我說我就說那如果連司法院都覺得這件事情很困難很難定義的話那你在行政裁量上要怎麼去定義說誰叫做什麼樣行為就墊入"},{"start":3022.31,"end":3048.348,"text":"國家榮譽什麼叫電入什麼叫損害國家利益所以我覺得這件事情的定義我覺得也很難明確這是我剛剛提出的一個疑問謝謝是 因為我們都會按照實際的案例來做這個裁罰嘛所以這件事情因為刑之有年然後也沒有治案難刑之處然後其他相關的法令也有類似的這種條文的明定那對我們在執行公務上來講確實也比較"},{"start":3050.951,"end":3054.485,"text":"就拜託這個司法院是有意見嗎"},{"start":3056.127,"end":3073.219,"text":"委員許宇甄等20人擬具:「發展觀光條例第三十三條及第七十條之二條文修正草案、委員許宇甄等20人擬具:「發展觀光條例第三十三條及第七十條之二條文修正草案、委員許宇甄等20人擬具:「發展觀光條例第三十三條及第七十條之二條文修正草案、委員許宇甄等20人擬具:「發展觀光條例第三十三條及第七十條之二條文修正草案、委員許宇甄等20人擬具:「發展觀光條例第三十三條及第七十條之二條文修正草案、委員許宇甄等20人擬具:「發展觀光條例第三十三條"},{"start":3084.426,"end":3108.671,"text":"正面表列一些主要的樣態、可能性你也比較好說明啦因為說不會其實大家也擔心我們希望把樣態更明確化在院長、院會協調的時候能夠比較好協商好不好那這個部分我們一樣一樣就交由我們院會由韓院長來召集協商好各位有沒有"},{"start":3113.68,"end":3122.049,"text":"同意嗎?同意,那我們以上兩條都交給院會由院長召集協商好,那我們今天的一個政黨協調會議協商會議就到這邊為止謝謝大家參加,謝謝"},{"start":3138.131,"end":3139.172,"text":"文修正草案審查委員"},{"start":3164.346,"end":3165.967,"text":"本院交通委員會報告併案審查"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}