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有8台有衛星的8台有衛星的啦那就是一般的行動訊號車啦"},{"start":213.305,"end":236.526,"text":"但是台客大跟遠傳就沒有了啊?遠傳也有各10台衛星的有幾台?有幾台?各10台,3加30台拍到災區呢?最高峰時期他們遠傳全部拍進去,台客大也全部拍進去,後來遠傳燒掉一台那個是衛星的行動車嗎?"},{"start":238.394,"end":248.22,"text":"衛星的行動車這個是數碼簿有補助衛星的行動車數碼簿有補助給電競公司來購買補助衛星跟衛星的通訊費通訊車其實我們發現債券是源源不足如果像這麼大運氣同時"},{"start":260.683,"end":286.847,"text":"因為行動訊號之後 它的範圍比較小啦有效範圍比較小啦所以你頂多在部落跟部落中間 你大概就不通了啦然後後來啊 恢復通訊最快的大概是中國電信了我們才了解到 因為中國電信基礎設施做得比較早先天性也比較強啦所以它的線路都在那裡嘛都地下纜線啦 比較普遍"},{"start":288.288,"end":304.079,"text":"那其他兩家就不行啦 中華電信那個 那台客大跟遠傳啊 差不多都 日本人都掛在電話條啦電話條如果倒了齁 電話就不通了啦台客大跟遠傳就不通了啦我不曉得 當時他們拿到這個執照齁我了解是沒有強制性 但是他們的一個責任應該是要強化一些基礎建設法 是不是這樣子我繼續回答一下"},{"start":316.936,"end":345.064,"text":"對 有要求他們做 比方說偏鄉建設多少基站 那些都有要求那這次檢驗起來根本沒有他們當初的那個偏鄉的義務大概都有達成都沒有達成 全部都遭頂位調你不用幫他們講話啦是公法部分啦 公法部分沒有特別要求公法部分當然是要點啦 重點啦而且喔 我們那個也沒有要求到他抗災的係數啦所以我在那個記者會我都有提出來啦"},{"start":346.723,"end":374.494,"text":"因為這基礎建設差太多了其實三家電線應該都賺錢吧主委 都大賺錢啦大賺錢這幾個社會你應該做到要回饋的啊我不是在廣告啊 但是我的門號我已經轉到中華電線了我感覺差太多了 這緊急時候你要用啊所以最早全面恢復通訊的大概就是中華電線了那我們希望啊"},{"start":375.427,"end":390.221,"text":"其他兩家要趕快追上來因為這個有市場競爭的問題啊人家做得到啊 你做不到那你在市場怎麼競爭平常我們不會感受得到啦你碰一下電視你講過喔 三間都說他二位都二位對不對三間都說他台灣第一名啦"},{"start":393.387,"end":404.338,"text":"真正的災難來檢驗就發現這個基本設施差很多所以我現在在記者會上我也請恩欣欣 蘇華部這邊協助可以再繼續補助他們買衛星的行動基地台"},{"start":410.029,"end":437.937,"text":"後面有這樣的計畫嗎跟我們報告在今年下半年的第五期前瞻我們已經規劃三家會各增加三台再各增加三台對然後再來就是說它原來的沒有衛星的車子因為剛剛我有說過我們今年並沒有新的衛星但是我們會先把架子裝好那不管再來有新的one wave衛星或其他的衛星都能夠快速的裝到這些車子上面去一台衛星行動車大概多少錢"},{"start":440.778,"end":466.278,"text":"車子全部大概要1100萬到1500萬那衛星的部分大概要300萬左右那我們補助多少我們補助49%一半嘛 業者負擔一半嘛這個應該 你要以整個整理台灣來計算這個數量喔 我想你整個台灣才10幾台你怎麼算 你現在補助10台嘛你要不要再補助3台"},{"start":468.447,"end":493.298,"text":"對這個速度是遠遠不夠但是因為我手上預算就這麼多另外另外我也要求啦希望說他們現在要再後重修嘛應該提高他們基地台的抗災能力啦什麼抗災能力例如你要抵擋到15級風啦15級風啦不斷電系統可以至少撐72小時"},{"start":495.512,"end":523.271,"text":"你要有一個數字化的一個管控來 陳主委是的 當然在我們的那個神經辦法空氣型機器台抗風級數15級這個已經在法規已經在實施當中但是更早以前的部分是當時還沒有這個規範所以我現在要求要把它納入法規裡面要求我們業者要做到因為15級風你大概幾十年才會遇到一次"},{"start":524.778,"end":534.173,"text":"這個已經非常高的一個標準了再來就是它不斷電的系統還有就是跟一些光藍的 地下染性的這個地下化"},{"start":535.862,"end":564.107,"text":"還有一些重要的節點這個我也跟交通部工種談過啦因為當然不是所有的地方都可以地下化因為淹水的地方就不可以了不然你淹水就淹到路邊了但是比較不淹水的地方就是阻幹線應該要走過去所有的省道就是工種罐的道路上 台17 台19那個大概雲嘉嵐都有啦 整條山的要先走啦那未來我們就提到啦國家"},{"start":565.642,"end":590.371,"text":"這個數位安全韌性其實我們剛剛幾個委員也有關心到就所謂災難的漫遊啦這個我覺得我們相關業者大家要談一下啦我們現在國內還不能不同電信公司之間的漫遊是不是這樣對 商業漫遊 運動站是不行的是不行嘛 就是說今天三間都壞了 那又沒話講"},{"start":592.945,"end":619.315,"text":"如果還有一家還可以用那其他就可以過來漫遊有沒有這樣的一個考量有這個空間就是災防法可以借接文電信管理法第22條可以處理這個部分細節部分我想也請我們相關單位大家再來研商另外一個就是所謂的公共安全和應變的通訊系統這個在美國英國在國外最近都開始建制了"},{"start":621.294,"end":646.052,"text":"尤其我們在台灣 我們台灣目前的今天在台灣辦公室有來我們台灣目前的警政 消防 醫療 還有地方政府都演播同樣的通訊系統 你知道嗎是不是這樣對 他們都用專用電信 都自己的裝飾 對所以這個要整合啦這個要整合啦 因為你如果是在救災 你像這次災難"},{"start":648.376,"end":676.492,"text":"整體救難部隊進來他有各式各樣不同的系統有警政 有消防 有醫療還有電影廠會自己派來的結果他們的通信都完全不同的系統要找人調度 這個會有問題所以還有目前的這些系統雖然第一個他們系統都不同第二個 他們的系統都是依賴商用網路"},{"start":677.742,"end":698.117,"text":"金融署都是走電信公司的所以他如果集體來斷訊,我們這裡救生會都會不規範沒有自己獨立一個所謂的公共安全的一個通訊系統所以美國現在韓國,韓國也是一個有安全意識的國家"},{"start":699.246,"end":717.026,"text":"有危機意識的國家 香港沒有建立自己的PVDR的系統我們台灣沒有 就所謂的公共安全跟救難應變系統這個我也希望相關單位 大家應該盡速來處理啦大家 過去沒有做到啦 那我們現在竟然要做國家安全任性你現在不可以在那裡擱落還有啦"},{"start":720.746,"end":743.702,"text":"蘇華部的預算我知道你今天比較困難啦蘇華部有一塊那個 蔣補助會啦總預算被刪了35億8嘛被刪了快40%啦那這裡面很多就是數位任性蔣補助會被刪了8億多啦就是數位任性和資訊安全啦後面的工作都需要這些預算啦"},{"start":745.06,"end":770.698,"text":"我們也希望這個在野政黨大家可以以這次的災情來做一個檢驗考量這個是國家所需要的增強安全韌性的基礎建設這個不只是暫時天災來的時候就可以發現沒有這些東西我們其實基礎建設有很大一個落差有南北的落差也有城鄉的落差"},{"start":772.506,"end":779.837,"text":"我們希望我們相關單位大家來謝謝委員幫我們說明好我們就謝謝相關單位謝謝三位謝謝主席謝謝林靜憲委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":301,"blocks":[["林委員俊憲：（10時23分）感謝主席，本席邀請NCC陳主委，還有數發部闕次長。"],["主席：陳主委、數位部闕政次。"],["林委員俊憲：闕政次，還有中華電信簡董事長。"],["主席：中華電信簡董事長。","還沒有質詢以前，特別跟大會報告，陳素月委員質詢完畢後，我們休息10分鐘。"],["林委員俊憲：謝謝主席。3位好，臺南在7月6號晚上颱風衝上來，那是禮拜天晚上，到7月7號禮拜一早上，我想一夜之間同時造成的災難，恐怕是臺灣大概有史以來最嚴重的。我稍微統計一下數字，市話的固網斷了一萬二千多戶，行動基地臺壞了快要1,300座，基地臺都壞掉了，網路受影響的大概有11萬6,000戶，有線電視斷訊大概三萬八千多戶。","我在7月7日當天早上就到災區去了，進去以後沿線看到電線桿倒了一片，電線桿大概倒了一千六百多支，所以很多路都不通，我繞路繞半天。繞路的時候我需要什麼？我就需要用Google Maps，因為都是鄉間小路，結果發現完全沒有訊號。好不容易到達了災區，才發現停電、停水、沒有訊號、沒有有線電視，等於是資訊孤島，這種狀況最嚴重的地方持續了七、八天。","當然，水、電及電訊復原的時間不大一樣，災民怎麼辦？第一個，他們沒辦法生活，因為沒水、沒電，也不知道外面發生什麼事；他們的家人要關心他們，電話也打不通，鄉下都住著老人及幼童，出外工作的子女想打電話回家卻打不通，老人想打電話出去也打不通；要不然看一下電視看看外面的世界怎麼了，有線電視又斷了，又沒有電視可看了，那種恐慌，我想就算是戰爭都不一定會造成這種慘狀，所以這也可以檢驗我們國家基礎建設的韌性。","我們今天要來討論電信、通訊的問題。我在上上禮拜跟郭國文委員召開一場記者會，我們大概檢討一下、做了幾個結論。因為現在斷訊了，要趕快恢復訊號，所以三大電信公司──中華電信、台哥大及遠傳就開始派一些行動車去。當然，到災區數量最多的是中華電信，中華電信好像派了3臺衛星行動車？"],["簡董事長志誠：總共派了17臺，8臺有衛星的。"],["林委員俊憲：8臺有衛星的，剩下的就是一般的行動訊號車。但是台哥大及遠傳就沒有，他們都派了幾臺？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：遠傳也有各10臺衛星。"],["林委員俊憲：有衛星的有幾臺？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：各10臺，3家30臺……"],["闕次長河鳴：3家28臺。"],["林委員俊憲：派到災區耶？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：最高峰時期，遠傳全部派進去，台哥大也全部派進去，後來遠傳燒掉1臺。"],["林委員俊憲：那個是衛星的行動車嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是。"],["林委員俊憲：衛星的行動車，數發部有補助嘛，有沒有？"],["闕次長河鳴：對，行動車是數發部補助的。"],["林委員俊憲：衛星的行動車，數發部有補助給電信公司購買嘛？"],["闕次長河鳴：補助衛星、衛星的通訊費，還有車子。"],["林委員俊憲：通訊車嘛？"],["闕次長河鳴：嗯。"],["林委員俊憲：其實我們發現在災區是遠遠不足，如果像這麼大面積，因為行動訊號車的有效範圍比較小，所以頂多在部落跟部落中間大概就不通了。","後來恢復通訊最快的大概是中華電信，我們才瞭解到因為中華電信基礎設施做得比較早，先天性也比較強，所以線路都走地下的，地下纜線比較普遍。其他兩家就不行了，台哥大及遠傳在我們那邊差不多都是把線路掛在電線桿上，電線桿如果倒了，電話就不通了，台哥大和遠傳就不通了。我不曉得當時他們拿到這個執照……就我瞭解是沒有強制性的，但是他們的責任應該要強化基礎建設，是不是這樣子？NCC回答一下。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，有要求他們做比方偏鄉要建設多少基站，那些都有要求。"],["林委員俊憲：這次檢驗起來，根本沒有。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：他們當初的偏鄉義務大概都有達成。"],["林委員俊憲：都沒有達成，全部都走電線桿，你不用幫他們講話啦。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：這是工法的部分，工法的部分沒有特別要求。"],["林委員俊憲：工法的部分當然是要點、重點。而且也沒有要求它抗災的係數，我在那個記者會都有提出來，基礎建設差太多了。主委，其實3家電信公司都賺錢吧？都賺大錢吧？他們賺大錢，基於社會責任，就應該要回饋。我不是在廣告，但是我的手機門號已經轉到中華電信，我覺得差太多了，這是緊急的時候要用的。所以最早全面恢復通訊的大概就是中華電信，我們希望其他兩家趕快追上，這是市場競爭的問題，人家做得到，你做不到，你在市場怎麼競爭？平常我們不會感受到，電視廣告的時候，3家電信業者都說他們多厲害、多厲害，對不對？3家業者都說他們是臺灣第一名，但是真正遇到災難來檢驗，就發現基礎設施差很多。所以我在記者會上也請NCC、數發部協助，可以再繼續補助他們買衛星的行動基地臺，後面有這樣的計畫嘛？"],["闕次長河鳴：跟委員報告，在今年下半年第5期前瞻計畫中，我們已經規劃3家會各增加3臺。"],["林委員俊憲：各增加3臺嘛？"],["闕次長河鳴：對。再來，原來沒有衛星的車子，剛剛我有說過，我們今年並沒有新的衛星，但是我們會先把架子裝好，不管再來有新的OneWeb衛星或其他的衛星，都能夠快速地裝到這些車子上面。"],["林委員俊憲：1臺衛星行動車大概多少錢？"],["闕次長河鳴：車子全部大概要1,100萬到1,500萬，衛星的部分大概要300萬左右。"],["林委員俊憲：你們補助多少？"],["闕次長河鳴：我們補助49%。"],["林委員俊憲：一半嘛，業者負擔一半。"],["闕次長河鳴：對。"],["林委員俊憲：你應該以整體臺灣來計算，以這個數量來看，整個臺灣才十幾臺，這樣算起來，你們現在補助10臺，後面再補助3臺……"],["闕次長河鳴：對，這個速度是遠遠不夠，但是因為我們手上的預算就這麼多……"],["林委員俊憲：好。另外，我也要求，他們現在要災後重修，應該提高他們基地臺的抗災能力。所謂的抗災能力，例如要能夠抵擋15級風，不斷電系統至少可以撐72小時，你們要有一個數字化的管控。請陳主委回答。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是的，根據我們的審議辦法，控制型基地臺抗風級數15級已經是法規規定，在實施當中，但是更早以前的部分，當時還沒有這個規範。"],["林委員俊憲：所以我現在要求要納入法規裡面，並要求業者要做到，因為15級風大概幾十年才會遇到一次，這個已經是非常高的標準了。","再來就是不斷電系統，還有就是光纜、纜線的地下化，以及重要的節點。我也跟交通部公總談過，當然不是所有的地方都可以地下化，會淹水的地方就不可以，不然淹水以後反而更嚴重，但是比較不容易淹水的地方，主幹線應該要走過去所謂的省道，就是公總主管的道路，譬如臺17、臺19，那個大概雲嘉南都有了，是整條線，要先做。","提到國家數位安全韌性，剛剛幾位委員也有關心到所謂災難的漫遊，我覺得相關業者大家要談一下。現在國內還不能進行不同電信公司之間的漫遊，是不是這樣？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，商業漫遊原則上是不行的。"],["林委員俊憲：是不行嘛。也就是說，如果今天3家都壞了，那沒話講，如果有1家還可以用，其他的就可以過來漫遊，有沒有這樣的考量？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：有這個空間，就是災防法可以介接電信管理法第二十二條，可以處理。"],["林委員俊憲：細節部分也請相關單位大家再來研商。另外一個就是公共安全和應變的通訊系統，美國、英國等等國外最近都開始建置了，尤其我們在臺灣……今天災防辦公室有來，我們臺灣目前的警政、消防、醫療及地方政府都使用不同的通訊系統，你們知道嗎？是不是這樣？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，他們都用專用電信，都是自己專屬的。"],["林委員俊憲：所以這個要整合，因為如果要救災，像這次災難，整體救難部隊進來，他們有各式各樣不同的系統，有警政、消防、醫療，還有地方政府自己派來的人，結果他們的通訊都是完全不同的系統，要找人、調度會有問題。還有，像目前的這些系統，第一個是他們的系統都不同，第二個是他們的系統都依賴商用網路，他們那時候也是都走電信公司的，所以如果基地臺斷訊，我們這些救災系統就整個壞掉，沒有一個自己獨立的公共安全通訊系統。像韓國是一個有安全意識的國家、有危機意識的國家，韓國也有建立自己的PPDR系統，就是所謂的公共安全與救難應變系統，可是我們臺灣沒有，所以我希望相關單位要儘速來處理，大家過去沒有做到，那我們現在既然要做國家安全韌性，你對這個部分就要考慮進來。還有，我知道數發部的預算今年比較困難，數發部有一些獎補助費，總預算被刪了35億8，被刪了快40%，這裡面有很多就是數位韌性，獎補助費被刪了八億多，就是數位韌性跟資訊安全，你們後面的工作都需要這些預算，那我們也希望在野政黨大家可以以這次的災情來做一個檢驗、考量，這個是國家為了增強安全韌性所需要做的基礎建設，這個不只是暫時的，在天災來的時候，我們就可以發現沒有這些東西，其實我們的基礎建設有很大的落差，有南北的落差，也有城鄉的落差，所以我們希望相關單位大家……來，請次長。"],["闕次長河鳴：謝謝委員幫我們說明。"],["林委員俊憲：好，我們就謝謝相關單位，謝謝3位，謝謝主席。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林俊憲委員的質詢。","現在請洪孟楷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":358,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-19","speakers":["林國成","李昆澤","廖先翔","蔡其昌","許智傑","林俊憲","洪孟楷","陳素月","魯明哲","陳雪生","黃健豪","蔡易餘","邱若華","李坤城","謝龍介","翁曉玲","徐富癸","葉元之","張啓楷","陳冠廷","何欣純","游顥"],"page_start":287,"meetingDate":["2025-08-04"],"gazette_id":"1147001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147001_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、中華電信股份有限公司董事長、行政\n院災害防救辦公室、經濟部及台灣電力股份有限公司率所屬相關單位列席就「丹娜絲風災通訊中\n斷及復原過程與檢討及我國災後通訊搶救機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1147001_00011"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}