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外的話就是配合教育部辦理國立社交機構及文化機構的一個共同行銷活動另外規劃參加2025臺北國際書展旅展等大型展會活動開放多元擴大民眾參與召開策展執行會青年"},{"start":2238.943,"end":2265.096,"text":"二、兒童及青年事務推動執行會推動校園大使並辦理校際活動二、充實數位內容辦理open data專期以利於文物查詢二、持續更新故宮線上學校學習網站貼西學校私生啟用的機會三、以Google Arts & Culture合作每年推出線上展覽"},{"start":2266.417,"end":2288.64,"text":"三、在友善共融推動文化平權的部分,以營造友善空間,最主要是建構新僱傭計劃,現在北部延期的整建計劃持續在推動。那行政大樓的話在10月抱進,年底會啟用。那圖勝運線大樓現在預計年底也會完工,那明年也會啟用。"},{"start":2290.101,"end":2307.025,"text":"南部的新國保管各項計畫也持續在進行。友善平淺服務,持續辦理故宮遊藝室百萬鞋子遊故宮計畫。持續推動身心障礙教育,推動低度參與觀眾平淺教育活動,勇氣發展接軌國際的部分。"},{"start":2314.186,"end":2315.927,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":2331.953,"end":2357.242,"text":"在南院就會有江戶福氏會的國際介展另外辦理馬來西亞主題亞洲藝術節的活動在國外的展覽部分包括9月份的捷克國家博物館的故宮牌瓶及其故事展覽另外11月份的華國凱布朗利博物館的一個龍展"},{"start":2359.318,"end":2381.564,"text":"第二、持續辦理故宮國寶出遊區,加強與地方管理所的連結。第三、優化文物保存導入RFID,目前進行庫房改箱違規的前置作業。四、導入智慧化監控系統,強化文物安全。"},{"start":2384.966,"end":2389.889,"text":"稅入、稅出預算編列部分稅入的部分的話114年稅入編列5億5949萬較113年增列1億3000多萬主要是以後編進結婚觀眾人潮指定回流稅出部分編列321.2萬"},{"start":2403.32,"end":2415.634,"text":"相較114年正列6億8千多萬,主要是因為新故宮計劃主要的工項都在進行,跟宴慶100的一個又推廣,那有關預算執行的部分請參列。"},{"start":2417.631,"end":2424.574,"text":"總預算案有關國立故宮博物院總預算案有關國立故宮博物院總預算案有關國立故宮博物院總預算案有關國立故宮博物院"},{"start":2437.359,"end":2439.38,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":2461.584,"end":2488.767,"text":"本院的那個預算凍結部分的話有三項那第一項的話是綜合規劃以推廣行銷凍結300萬那故宮會妥善應用預算提升博物館的相關資源及並立性那第二項的話是文物安全管理修復凍結100萬那故宮會秉持守護文化自然責任精進文物典藏管理環境"},{"start":2489.548,"end":2492.189,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":2518.149,"end":2541.58,"text":"所以本院的各項所注意算盡依照施政目標及右膝要何時編列執行那未來故宮面對下一個一百年將持續強化國際交流合作後持我國的文化外交讓故宮成為國際上典藏華山文物的專業博物館那也成為一個全民的博物館謝謝大家的指正"},{"start":2547.93,"end":2559.254,"text":"好,謝謝蕭院長口頭報告。那我們現在開始進行綜合詢答。今天每位出席委員質詢6分鐘,必要時延長2分鐘。列席委員質詢時間為4分鐘,發言登記截止時間為上午10點30分。委員如有臨時提案,請於上午10點30分前提出,並於本會委員吳佩奕質詢結束後,進行解凍案及臨時提案處理。"},{"start":2575.74,"end":2586.103,"text":"處理臨時提案時,若提案委員及聯署委員均不在場,原例不予處理。現在我們先請發言登記第一位,洪孟楷委員質詢。主席謝謝,麻煩請蕭院長。蕭院長請。"},{"start":2602.716,"end":2607.764,"text":"委員長,故宮最近最熱鬧的時候是不是11月30號馬英九基金會邀請陸生團參訪故宮的時候?"},{"start":2614.172,"end":2618.115,"text":"不過不管怎麼樣,這還是一個文化交流嘛。院長支持這樣的文化交流嗎?"},{"start":2635.502,"end":2660.921,"text":"基本上來講的話故宮支持文化交流各項……所有樣的文化文化是全體人類的文化是不分任何政治意識形態的故宮張開雙手歡迎各界的人就是說不管政黨不管國籍只要他可以入境到台灣的話基本上來講都經過一個合法的程序所以我們都以客為尊對那所以院長會認為說這是一種統戰嗎"},{"start":2666.711,"end":2680.07,"text":"政治的解讀的話當然就是故宮的沒有辦法理解的啦那故宮基本上來講對任何的觀眾他們用一種非常合理的一個正常的參觀方式我們都歡迎"},{"start":2681.271,"end":2708.609,"text":"其實有接待這次參訪團的101董事長賈永傑他也講他們來玩我們來玩大家都開心不用那麼嚴肅那一樣的道理對岸的民眾或是對岸的朋友十三億人如果說都能夠來台灣都能夠來參訪故宮看一下故宮的文物以前是課本裡面看到的現在可以看到實體的一個部分清明上河圖翠玉白菜我想這都是非常好的一個事情"},{"start":2709.75,"end":2726.63,"text":"只要兩岸開放交流更多人來看其實某種程度上這反而是一種文化的提升所以院長我說實在話我們覺得說是不是應該要更鼓勵或說更有自信能夠讓更多世界的觀光客都來故宮來參訪"},{"start":2728.492,"end":2751.786,"text":"這是故宮努力的目標,怎麼樣提升所有的參觀不管是國人或是國際人士的話都是故宮努力的目標是,所以院長我當然你可能比較少時間有辦法說這個參與我們這個政府這些的一個決策啦但如果說有機會我還是要呼籲跟建議啊也要適時的跟上面來反映啦尤其是我們的賴政府就是說兩岸"},{"start":2752.366,"end":2755.328,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":2775.072,"end":2790.289,"text":"對於兩岸開放的話當然故宮也是樂觀其成那我們希望說在兩岸一個有共識有和平的一個基礎下有更多的大陸那邊的民眾可以來台灣參觀這個故宮非常的期待"},{"start":2790.589,"end":2818.717,"text":"好,那另外一點我們現在故宮的狀況明年是百年願慶那明年百年願慶的時候我有看到我們的一個預算的部分有增加說我們要去捷克法國辦理相關的特展那也有文物基金會派員新增出去考察包括日本以及義大利的一個考察那院長是不是也能夠跟國人來說明或是來解釋一下除了我們派員出去"},{"start":2820.057,"end":2825.566,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":2833.973,"end":2835.494,"text":"現在這些宣傳業務都到"},{"start":2851.673,"end":2877.483,"text":"觀光署到觀光署但觀光署的話他們宣傳的重點目前看來的話都是國家風景區或是國家公園就比較少提到故宮這個部分的話我打算在過年以後一月份以後再找相關的外交部觀光署這些單位請他們來協助看能不能就是用一種整合的方式然後做一個整體的一個是院長你講的就是本席接下來想問的"},{"start":2878.183,"end":2899.77,"text":"獎項獎項獎"},{"start":2901.084,"end":2917.492,"text":"除了一些警官除了101等等我們也希望是大家能夠知道說故宮文物在這邊然後更多人來參觀但你看喔其實從最近一次疫情前2019年外國籍的旅客一年佔300萬人"},{"start":2920.313,"end":2942.649,"text":"但是到2023年疫情過後外國籍的旅客一年只不到百萬只有72萬多人到今年的統計目前為止也將近是70萬人左右所以我們現在外國籍的旅客不到疫情前的三分之一那我們也希望是說那你能不能夠有更多的讓外國籍的旅客知道是說來台灣除了"},{"start":2943.47,"end":2944.611,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":2962.708,"end":2987.246,"text":"國立故宮在台灣,文物在台灣那你剛剛講是說要到明年1月,明年1月的時候總預算大家都審過啦明年的計畫大家都已經報完啦明年的計畫大家都已經確認了,這樣來得及嗎?根文報告,其實我們那個提升國際的能量的這個計畫這個國際戰略計畫其實我們在今年有做了那...多少費用?上個月"},{"start":2988.707,"end":3011.423,"text":"有時候我不能明確去編一個預算說我這個東西叫做多少費用不是院長你不能明確編一個預算那就代表說你有沒有執行真的想要做這個核心的業務這一個部分另外是說即便我剛開宗明義強調故宮的本預算其實放眼到我們中華民國政府總預算來講其實是杯水車薪啦相對少啊"},{"start":3011.883,"end":3014.725,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":3032.418,"end":3052.095,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關"},{"start":3059.682,"end":3062.063,"text":"三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":3083.339,"end":3102.776,"text":"那到目前為止我現在講的是說到2013年2023年2024年國外觀光客都只有七十幾萬不到疫情前的三分之一我們今年本來預估大概一百二十七萬大概少了五十萬因為原來疫情的話就是邊境入客會開放可是沒有開放所以的確是少了"},{"start":3104.377,"end":3122.159,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":3122.677,"end":3125.959,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":3141.041,"end":3168.273,"text":"你沒有辦法編列在故宮本預算裡面但你至少你要怎麼樣想方設法拉資源整合拉觀光署拉外交部拉其他部會來告訴說你們要宣傳你們要有任何的這個文化甚至我們故宮不一定有錢但是我們可以有什麼樣的圖資什麼樣的協助讓你能夠更推廣能不能在預算審查我們逐條進入到實質審查的時候你有這樣的一個明確的一個計畫"},{"start":3169.313,"end":3172.898,"text":"讓我們能夠了解那我們這樣預算審查的時候更能夠支持"},{"start":3174.985,"end":3200.452,"text":"跟委員報告這個沒有問題因為我們本來就在做而且我們那個計畫概念概構想的話那個基本上來講是有的我希望之後在主條之前可以提出可以提供本席跟我們教文委員會的委員這個計畫的參考好不好那另外最後一分鐘我有看到是說故宮現在有跟屈臣氏這個商店做什麼跨界合作推出系列的品牌商品"},{"start":3201.793,"end":3220.092,"text":"本席其實認為是說如果說能夠讓文物結合商品本席這個方向本席是認同不過我現在想請教明年百年願慶我們有沒有什麼比較特別的紀念商品是一定要讓國人或是外國人士來台灣一定非買不可有沒有能不能先拿出來大家比方一下"},{"start":3220.572,"end":3248.2,"text":"議員長議員長"},{"start":3250.884,"end":3270.363,"text":"這不好笑啦我知道不好笑啦我要的是本席真的是站在一個期待跟鼓勵的立場對於行政部會來講有專業我們是支持但是我們真的希望是說百年我們能夠人生有幾個100年我們這次100年之後下一個100年我們都不在了"},{"start":3271.109,"end":3298.772,"text":"所以這個百年其實我覺得是非常重要的時刻那我們能夠怎麼樣不管是借用民間的創意借用什麼樣的一個力量我們去想一個東西是明年百年每一個來故宮一定非買不可這個東西是很特別的我們如果說沒有買沒有來來台灣沒有來故宮白來了來故宮沒有買這樣的一個商品沒有買這樣的紀念品白來了要有這樣的一個雄心壯志所以說拜託"},{"start":3300.069,"end":3321.525,"text":"委員長除了剛剛恭喜在游跳我知道啦紀念酒紀念幣這個都是一般這個都老掉牙嘛那怎麼樣來講那有沒有有什麼我覺得這個東西才是重點這東西也才是真的能夠讓我們從文物故宮精神以及人民的日常生活裡面來結合不是說要你做一個"},{"start":3322.566,"end":3326.869,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案。"},{"start":3340.202,"end":3366.995,"text":"我們要來看到這樣的一個部分,好不好?這才是我們真的能夠支持我們編出來的預算,是不是能夠把錢花在刀口上的時辰。謝謝洪孟海委員,那個院長會後再跟洪孟海委員做詳細的報告。謝謝。那現在因為我們現場的委員已經達三人,請問一下上次會議的議事錄有無錯誤或者是遺漏之處?好,沒有,那麼議事錄確定。接下來我們有請柯智恩委員質詢。"},{"start":3371.111,"end":3373.232,"text":"院長請院長早我想延續我們剛剛的話題因為百年故宮這個真的是非常重要的一個指標那我們今天要問為什麼百歲的故宮不如90歲的一個風華那這個部分其實很多的數據可以呈現出來你看"},{"start":3393.399,"end":3396.664,"text":"在10年前我們的故宮說實在那時候的人數是540萬之多當然有很多的時代的一個背景但是呢我們還是不免要緬懷過去10年前你看2015還獲得世界博物館人氣排行榜的第6名"},{"start":3408.9,"end":3413.846,"text":"這是何等的一個光榮啊這是台灣之光啊可是你看看曾幾何時你看我們歷屆的參觀的人數從過去500多萬我們先不要講太久到113年11月的時候呢你看才達到155萬2000多"},{"start":3425.3,"end":3427.422,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":3451.641,"end":3471.157,"text":"不愛故宮了還是故宮在這一塊的宣傳沒有做得太好?你覺得真正的原因是什麼?如果委員看前面那張投影片的話當然可以知道從2019疫情之後整個下滑最低的所有到41萬人次那現在的話當然拉回來的話以目前來講的話南苑大概是90...將近90萬"},{"start":3473.459,"end":3476.18,"text":"總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":3500.691,"end":3501.751,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位"},{"start":3517.017,"end":3520.66,"text":"所以說你會發現整個從109到11年我這要指出來就是你們通路承銷商的整體的銷售額是下降的過去大家對於這個故宮的文物是非常非常的熱愛但是呢你雖然說疫情你可能說國外觀光客你可能說路客等等之類"},{"start":3534.392,"end":3560.553,"text":"但我們總認為你應該在這個時候更努力開發你的文創商品你要來增加你的亮點做好行銷你反而是因為遊客變少這一塊你要琢磨可是你看看你的權利金收入真的是不好然後重點是你委託合作的承銷商數是近五年來最低院長我一直說你們要很努力可是你們承銷商的數額竟然是最低而且你們的所謂的網路商城的銷售"},{"start":3561.374,"end":3580.93,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":3581.15,"end":3587.895,"text":"這是很可惜的你這麼多人才來幫你做可是你會發現你看這個新一代的設計產權你的競爭然後你的這個部分來說的話可是你竟然有49%的地方好不好你竟然有28件換的沒有辦法變成衍生商品這是怎麼一回事辦都辦了為什麼沒有把它變成更加的一個開發"},{"start":3604.362,"end":3625.561,"text":"學生在設計競賽的話基本上是鼓勵學生去從事設計可是設計出來的作品的話其實我們要媒合廠商能不能開發能不能有經濟效益還是一句話啦,好啦院長這個我們在預算審查社會好好來部分我還是一個強調故宮文物的藝術發展基金過去是一隻金雞母這個金雞母現在3比8了,已經瘦巴巴的了"},{"start":3629.465,"end":3631.126,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":3647.875,"end":3648.095,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":3670.299,"end":3679.966,"text":"改裝再製,它是可以創造的好不好給一些大家比較可以買得上手的而不是一個這麼樣層次太高的好了剩下時間我還是要問一下有關於新故宮計劃那這個部分來說的話你看新故宮計劃你原本107到112總積費是101"},{"start":3688.473,"end":3705.077,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":3705.077,"end":3729.599,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":3729.719,"end":3754.66,"text":"八委員那個審議的部分是歸審議的部分目前編列的經費的話就是我們北院的圖書文獻大樓、研究大樓不是啦我下次問你嘛我下次問你那一句嘛你等下解凍了這兩千萬當中你會不會認為北市的文資審議會會不會通過你有沒有跟他做溝通還是你們得到內部的消息你有把握他會不會通過基本上來講我們當然有溝通我們跟那個但是呢結果呢"},{"start":3755.865,"end":3758.248,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管主管"},{"start":3779.209,"end":3780.79,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":3805.689,"end":3815.954,"text":"會把故宮的整個場景有沒有辦法會全部遮蓋住我覺得這才是重點吧你不要每次給我空拍圖看不到所以然我要的是每個人在這個地方我們有動態模擬圖好 給我一個我要做這個模題因為我要看得出來會不會因為這樣子的部分然後來遮住我們故宮的全景因為已經有太多學者專家認為不要每次都拿羅浮宮那個跟台灣是不能比因為我們台灣不管緯度氣候等等還有包括節能減碳等等"},{"start":3833.283,"end":3835.446,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":3852.517,"end":3854.7,"text":"三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":3866.963,"end":3886.071,"text":"沒有四樓咖啡廳有啊你給會員啊明明就出現在你們這個地方你要給你們會員嘛很多但是我要強調一下你說給你故宮會員專屬的沒有沒有是有你們的誤會嗎還是怎麼樣也許過去有討論過但起碼我到過以後那你就這裡啊你就就就就寫在這裡啊"},{"start":3887.575,"end":3889.077,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院"},{"start":3904.377,"end":3904.998,"text":"委員我要澄清一下"},{"start":3918.669,"end":3942.494,"text":"面板上面講的話四樓會員空間跟右邊那個二樓咖啡廳這是兩塊所以說有沒有專屬的會員使用的空間好不好完全沒有是不是那就把這個部分把它釐清澄清一下因為我看到這個部分看得很細節還有包括你的剛剛說的旅行的費用好不好以小虧大我還是要問一下你看出國的經費因為我們現在審預算嘛"},{"start":3945.495,"end":3946.636,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":3968.712,"end":3970.453,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算二、審查113年度中央政府總預算二、審查113年度中央政府總預算二、審查113年度中央政府總預算二、審查113年度"},{"start":3990.299,"end":3996.02,"text":"所以你寫這個東西到底對這樣的一個東西到底有什麼我只是提出來這個部分你在編寫這些預算的時候你不覺得應該花一些時間它的最主要的目的是什麼你讓大家覺得這些都不是你們家的業務那它背後的原因是什麼你可不可以澄清清楚否則我在質詢預算的時候我會想下來跟你們做進一步的探討喔好不好寫這個部分理由是要運用人很多的時候去宣傳故宮嗎是這個理由嗎"},{"start":4018.49,"end":4018.57,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":4025.799,"end":4029,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":4056.409,"end":4056.569,"text":"蕭薇薇議員"},{"start":4077.579,"end":4077.72,"text":"趙慧照"},{"start":4094.099,"end":4096.761,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":4120.602,"end":4136.937,"text":"委員報告文創商品或紀念品其實故宮是有規劃那剛講的就是說傳統的比如說紀念品紀念酒啦、郵票啦或是什麼金幣啦、金條啦這個都有那這個都是因為跟外面包括玩具公仔都是跟外面合作的"},{"start":4138.718,"end":4138.818,"text":"獲得獲得獲得"},{"start":4153.815,"end":4180.589,"text":"我們今天大家還是一直很關心不管是這個故宮南北院參訪人數整個營收我想都不是太理想我覺得我們都值得來討論一下我們看到其實故宮在11月11號的時候你們發布了一個新聞說故宮北院已經突破去年總參觀人次這個155萬2190人但本席看到這個所謂的突破好像就是突破多了6個人是不是"},{"start":4182.452,"end":4192.821,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案二、審查114年度"},{"start":4211.596,"end":4229.138,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":4229.298,"end":4239.427,"text":"好,那我們再來看根據統計我們的這個人數逐步恢復的看起來只有北院南院反而是反其道而行原本我們看到111年參訪的人數達到1039,895人可是112年參訪的人數反而下降到954,296人那113年截至10月只剩下839,552人"},{"start":4255.462,"end":4257.925,"text":"南院不爭反將南部縣區本國及外國籍參訪比例本國籍104萬3714人次"},{"start":4273.5,"end":4276.884,"text":"外國籍只有5548人,可以說99%多都是本國籍,可是我們看到112年本國籍參訪人次驟降,112年降到941,065人,113年截至10月底只剩下78萬人左右。"},{"start":4293.622,"end":4296.764,"text":"外國籍參觀者略增長,從原本的5548、112、113年分別來到13000、15000。為什麼本國民眾不願意去南院,外國略增?能不能就這兩件事情,院長來回答一下?"},{"start":4315.659,"end":4332.715,"text":"在疫情期間的話其實南院的參觀人數的話反而是比北院多了一點111年的話超過百萬那因為疫情期間的話有那個補助專案那另外的話北部的話大家比較不喜歡來旅遊"},{"start":4337.039,"end":4358.744,"text":"疫情之後北院其實是回流,然後南院其實有點劣降。以今年來講的話,大概會比今年劣深,南院有劣深,北院當然是增加幅度比較大,但是都不如預期,這是真的,這是我們要努力的一個方向。"},{"start":4359.805,"end":4379.597,"text":"為什麼我們自己的民眾是不願意去南院?為什麼南院的這個參訪人次這麼不好還要一直下降?有去了解過原因嗎?因為一樣是已經疫情後了,我們都在努力中,那何以北院的人次會上升而南院還要下降?這是為什麼?"},{"start":4381.828,"end":4400.32,"text":"這個我們要再理解看看因為所以你都不知道原因所以院長如果你不知道原因怎麼去努力讓南院的人士往上呢所以我想你說你還要再去了解看看這個我覺得非常的錯愕啦那一樣北院一樣南院一樣疫情之後了所以我想這個希望你一個禮拜之內給我一個原因好不好"},{"start":4400.66,"end":4414.684,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮文藝術發展基金附屬"},{"start":4430.168,"end":4451.539,"text":"好 這個部分的話當然那時候是做一個南北院的區域分好 院長我知道你想要做一個南北院區域北院給北區的學校 南院給南區的學校但是院長這是很無聊的一件事你難不成還怕說你開放的時候還搶掉了這個北院的聲音嗎不會不會 對嘛所以我覺得啦"},{"start":4454.52,"end":4474.271,"text":"不過我覺得你看我們南院現在其實參訪人數是不好的那事實上南院其實有很多值得看的地方南院的同仁也很努力而南院占地70公頃比本院還大現在在蓋這個國保館其實是非常適合學生前往參觀的所以你這樣的開放其實覺得不好是不是院長可以做一個調整"},{"start":4475.291,"end":4500.868,"text":"我們明年就調整。怎麼調整?明年的話北部的話我們會納入。因為它是一個有合作單位有委辦單位的。很好。也就是明年一月以後我們全國的這個學生都也可以按照他們的意願申請北院或者南院都可以去參訪了對嗎?對。那這個辦法要趕快讓教育部下去給我們所有的學校知道好嗎?"},{"start":4502.248,"end":4513.951,"text":"最後我想一樣我們看到北院雖然參訪的人數逐漸在恢復可是並沒有反映在整個故宮的營收上根據故宮自己的統計112年故宮實體跟網路的商業這個營收加起來是3億1069萬可是我們看到113年截至10月的營收只有2億5878萬所以參訪人數變多為什麼營收下降"},{"start":4529.752,"end":4547.039,"text":"公文報告,因為全年度還沒有結算,您的意思是說後面這兩個月你可以再增加一億是這樣嗎?門票跟基金的話都會增加。所以我們在今年你有把握我們可以超過去年是這樣嗎?會超過去年。"},{"start":4548.66,"end":4551.201,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":4578.188,"end":4583.633,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":4600.762,"end":4604.205,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":4620.339,"end":4637.896,"text":"當然是有很大的影響,像110年、111年疫情期間,可是因為他的繳雇的概算是之前就編列的,所以我們還是照那個額度去繳雇,所以中間的話其實我們不能講虧空啦,就是我們那個基金虧空喔,這個詞用的不太對吧?"},{"start":4639.277,"end":4642.438,"text":"院長,我們可能要再嚴謹一點,要不然你說了這個話,我想同仁大家捏一把冷汗。我想最後一點點時間,我提醒院長,我想疫情沖撞之後,現在兩岸的關係這麼樣的不好,"},{"start":4660.383,"end":4682.22,"text":"北院、南院同仁都很努力,那怎麼樣讓我們不管在營收、在人事上面可以往上來提升我們要先找到原因,像剛剛院長講的,原因不詳這件事情不能夠再發生嗎?不是原因不詳,因為原因有非常多元,就是說沒有辦法就是說單純一個原因,當然就是說所謂的邊境開放這當然是一個主要的原因"},{"start":4682.66,"end":4684.842,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案"},{"start":4713.54,"end":4740.122,"text":"謝謝主席,有請故宮蕭中煌院長有請蕭院長各位院長,我們要關心同仁最近各部會紛紛爆出霸凌案件,野火燎原同屬教育委員會的教育部、文化部也都傳出有霸凌案件正在進行調查想先請教一下院長,您這邊有沒有接獲相關霸凌案件的投訴"},{"start":4743.294,"end":4764.745,"text":"故宮其實故宮其實也有故宮的話就是說依照那個人事室給我的資料的話109年有一件然後這個申訴研究人申訴對不起院長我問的是在這個事件爆發之後是不是有新的接獲的霸凌案件的投訴有或沒有"},{"start":4765.776,"end":4793.522,"text":"現在的話就今年以今年來講的話就8月份有一個投訴案那這個所以霸凌案傳出來以後你們都沒有接獲新的嗎因為我們的理解日前行政院一聲令下要求相關部會甚至回溯期有的到10年有關霸凌的案件都可以再提出那假設故宮院內有人反映霸凌的情形你理論上應該已經開始要接獲要積極處理了所以你們目前都沒有接獲新的案件"},{"start":4794.442,"end":4815.559,"text":"目前調查中的有一件有沒有新接獲的案件在勞動部霸凌事件之後你現在都不回答那你之後如果有案件完全沒有嗎所以故宮這個那您剛剛說還有一個調查的案件什麼時候會出爐現在在處理中九月份也是在這個事件之前"},{"start":4816.482,"end":4842.619,"text":"我想故宮的情況比較特殊啦過去有一些特殊文化那也有一些這個同仁的一些狀況我想院長應該要小心的針對這個情況來做內部的了解好不好沒有不代表真的沒有目前行政院傳出來每一個部會都在做內部的了解是故宮真的特別和平嗎?您有這樣的信心嗎?您有這樣的信心之後就是你們這邊都是零件嗎?"},{"start":4843.88,"end":4854.028,"text":"你可以這樣保證嗎?基本上來講申訴有就是那個霸凌他有他的定義然後申訴有他的管道以目前來講正式提出的管道是沒有"},{"start":4857.763,"end":4881.232,"text":"但是對同人的關懷這個事情的話我們都持續在講我想針對內部針對這個霸凌案件不管是過去調查中的還是未來你們現在是零件的這件事情希望你們有一些相關的資訊可以提供給本席了解好不好謝謝我想今天是114年度預算的答詢我想我們想要了解的是這個收購文物的部分"},{"start":4881.832,"end":4900.544,"text":"依據故宮文物藝術發展基金的第五條故宮收購文物的基金來源就是故宮益發基金請教院長您知道最近一次收購文物是在哪一年嗎故宮最近收購文物的話是在幾年前在疫情之前"},{"start":4903.036,"end":4913.071,"text":"110年今年還剩下不到一個月就結束了據院長瞭解故宮今年有沒有構藏任何一件文物故宮沒有沒有我們沒有編列預算"},{"start":4914.597,"end":4931.057,"text":"此外,故宮連續四年沒有收購任何文物,但過去有沒有收購?有!先前故宮後來每年從藝發基金拿出一筆錢,等著要買文物。"},{"start":4933.294,"end":4934.755,"text":"獲得國立故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案獲得國立故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":4958.567,"end":4959.168,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":4971.152,"end":4995.808,"text":"因為前面編列的疫情期間的話因為疫情期間編列的文物的話是因為要經過國際的一個委員來審閱那這個部分的話現在疫情已經結束了疫情結束之後就是以故宮目前來講就是我就任來講的話我認為去整理去盤點過去的故宮的文物要整理要修復的或是技長的入場"},{"start":4997.469,"end":5001.652,"text":"主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":5021.347,"end":5039.241,"text":"一次不是只可以做一件事你不只往前看往現在看也可以往未來看嘛我跟委員說一下就是說天天來兜售我怒的不是兜售不是你們要主動構場啊不是你預算都沒有編你現在跟我講有人來兜售主動構場的話我們看了綜藝的這個預算基本上買不起"},{"start":5048.959,"end":5069.367,"text":"那你如果看到買得起的你沒有預算可以買啊因為這個部分的話如果真的有好的物件我們可以用基金因為基金本來就有這樣的功能所以不用先編是不是到時候想花多少就直接挪多少嗎也不是這個樣子但是基金它就有一個彈性的調整功能抱歉院長這是一個態度"},{"start":5070.287,"end":5089.683,"text":"根據你們的作業要點其實你們本來就應該要預先編列這個預算而且確實你們需要經過很多的審查而且這個審查在故宮裡面特別特別不一樣你們是實務審查我當然理解這是小心為上但是其實這就全球的這個趨勢來講也非常特別"},{"start":5092.725,"end":5106.354,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二"},{"start":5120.883,"end":5144.165,"text":"我們才重啟預算編列,也是後年。好,沒關係,謝謝院長願意負責。為什麼?因為其實院內的人力雖然大家都很辛苦,但是我想大家就是要各自負責不同的工作,這才是一個團隊。你不能說我現在處理手上的事了,其他的事情我們過去有做了我現在就不做了。"},{"start":5144.725,"end":5150.791,"text":"其實有很多構藏的機制我也希望院長可以考慮除了編列預算這是重中之重還是要提前來討論之外其實還有更多彈性的構藏的方法主動出擊你說你都買不起那看你是從哪些管道去買現在巴塞爾藝術展的年報都已經講了"},{"start":5165.385,"end":5192.194,"text":"現在有非常多的博物館、美術館都開始用線上購藏的方式你可以事先去看預展你可以了解這個產品之後用線上購買的方式來作業所以我想因應數位時代的來臨請問院長能不能請故宮研議去讓展品購藏的相關辦法更加的主動、積極、更有彈性這是我們這一屆的行政院的標語嘛是不是"},{"start":5192.534,"end":5192.674,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":5209.827,"end":5210.067,"text":"目前故宮編列了18億"},{"start":5226.622,"end":5252.934,"text":"展品出現的機率其實很低,圖書文獻類到113年度的展示率是0.094%那你們有編列了將近20億,北區重建計畫編列9.1億請教院長,你們擴建完成以後預計可以增加多少的展示空間?或者我們就數據化的來了解,各類文物的展示率有沒有辦法提高到10%?"},{"start":5255.067,"end":5272.321,"text":"跟委員報告沒有辦法,為什麼沒有辦法?因為基本上來講北院擴建跟南院擴建的話都增加200平方米但是所謂的博物館的展示力並不是所有的同學都可以上運動場去跑百米"},{"start":5273.126,"end":5292.178,"text":"所以在文物裡面有一些是研究用的對不起院長我打斷您現在國際的趨勢不是要跑步就一定要上場跑百米也可以在室內運動場練習給您了解一下我想故宮您作為一個國際型的博物館"},{"start":5292.938,"end":5295.4,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":5308.919,"end":5311.522,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":5325.64,"end":5347.449,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":5347.489,"end":5372.929,"text":"我想我希望您可以放寬心胸瞭解世界上的趨勢往前看現在已經有非常多的地方做開放庫房庫房可以用玻璃圍牆可以用各種方式讓產品非常好的存放在那個地方但是又可以讓民眾看到這個我想當然您又提到open data又提到數位的方式我現在手上拿的這個vision pro"},{"start":5375.15,"end":5388.127,"text":"現在新的設備台灣好不容易可以預購了12月17號要出現了戴上它你可以看到虛擬的文物我想故宮在這裡院長接下來這是一個關鍵期"},{"start":5389.989,"end":5391.35,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":5407.144,"end":5416.291,"text":"五月請我們準備去荷蘭路特丹的曼斯博物館,它就是一個完整的開放庫房。另外館長今天下午會在庫房演講。接下來我們有請陳培韻委員。"},{"start":5439.515,"end":5440.277,"text":"謝謝主席 有請院長"},{"start":5447.872,"end":5447.892,"text":"陳委員長"},{"start":5477.312,"end":5479.473,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":5502.302,"end":5528.197,"text":"我們再把單月單月列出來我覺得對於南院我們還是很有期待院長你自己怎麼看我可不可以給你多一些時間來回答關於南院這一題目前規劃的想像而南院當然就是大家對南院很大的期待可是南院的確是在交通區域上它有比較不方便但是以我自己的認定的話突破100萬的話是南院的一個"},{"start":5529.138,"end":5552.09,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":5552.15,"end":5579.711,"text":"好院長你剛講到兩個關鍵第一個說你你認為可能是因為交通不方便再來第二個你說你們2025的100的plus你們會把北院的重要文物帶到南院去但是交通不方便這個議題我認為應該也不會只有故宮南院有這個困境那我認為後續不管是接駁車啊交通車或者是什麼樣方便的公共運輸我認為故宮應該有機會跟地方政府做相對的討論因為確實我們希望有更多人去南院如果"},{"start":5580.531,"end":5606.56,"text":"議長你真的認為交通不便是其中的因素我希望院長在這個部分應該可以更加積極好嗎好再來我們來看一下院長這是我手上故宮自己在賣的文創商品這個是翠玉白菜的筆作我們來看一下這個設計公司看起來應該是臺灣可是呢他的製造廠商這個標題是這樣他叫做國立故宮博物院合作開發商品那設計廠商是臺灣設計可是是中國製造下一頁"},{"start":5609.701,"end":5621.015,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":5621.994,"end":5622.274,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":5652.174,"end":5666.514,"text":"但是我不懂,如果有這麼大的,光是製造的部分,成本兩億多,為什麼不能在台灣製造?你們是找不到廠商,還是因為你們這個文創商品的標案流程,你們其實是沒有限制廠商可以去中國下單嗎?"},{"start":5667.732,"end":5694.131,"text":"公務員報告在商言商因為臺灣的代理商臺灣的設計臺灣的製作然後就是製作在大陸基本上來講賺錢的還是臺灣的臺灣的廠商臺灣的代理商但是如果在臺灣的話我知道在臺灣做的話基本上來講的話他的成本所以那我可以問一下這個這樣的合作開發商品他的正常流程應該是什麼"},{"start":5697.044,"end":5721.445,"text":"報告委員補充說明說商品是廠商提案申請完以後經過故宮審查才可以在故宮上架所以他不是用採購的提議好那以翠玉白菜來說我要去做這個比作然後我跟故宮申請然後你們同意了我的企劃書你們滿意然後呢我去哪裡下單製造你們也不管我你們其實就只有收售權費嘛然後跟在你們的文創商店賣的額外的營業額對不對我們會特別鼓勵廠商用在台灣的"},{"start":5722.526,"end":5725.168,"text":"獲得獎勵的方式在台灣製造我認為我當然知道如果廠商他在商言商我可以理解可是故宮難道沒有高的標準的角度來看這個事情嗎我真的不懂像這個筆記本"},{"start":5746.367,"end":5759.662,"text":"這個筆記本要價列百八欸院長可是他是made in china那我自己做出版的我看一下他紙質也沒有特別好對這個筆記本當然是個案個案可是如果是出版的話比如說以新台印刷的話台中的話他就自己有一個品牌"},{"start":5760.523,"end":5761.704,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":5784.239,"end":5784.96,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":5799.381,"end":5822.001,"text":"故宮在設計相關合作開發商品接受廠商做標案跟提企劃的時候如果有一個這個更高的標準我認為其實也是照顧台灣廠商因為這幾年中國的製造品質其實大家也慢慢發現很多的問題所以我想我還是要拜託故宮在這件事情上當有廠商來提案他當然必須要將本求利我可以理解可是如果有一些些的可能性我認為我們還是要繼續鼓勵我們會盡量鼓勵台灣的廠商"},{"start":5826.304,"end":5852.425,"text":"這個部分我們會再往下追蹤接下來我要問一下關於100plus的部分院長我不知道你記不記得去年的9月2024年的9月我就口頭跟您提過你說要回去研究到了10月我在委員會質詢給您建議你說已經開了三次會議到了去年11月我正式用預算提案這個是我從去年就開始一直在追的題目可是我們往下看看到今年的1月故宮給我們的報告就只有三段話包含"},{"start":5853.604,"end":5881.525,"text":"公共化、在地化、專業化、多元化、國際化這些元素你們都沒有說你們就簡單的三段文字就想要告訴我這是你們的一百plus我覺得這個非常的荒謬喔那我們再來看我們到預算書裡面去把一百plus的關鍵字幫院長你抓出來了我們看到這邊會用將近一億三千多萬包含有紫計畫包含還有行銷、媒宣還有策展但是我們看到你們實際上的內容喔其實你們還把今年已經開辦的大美不言算進去"},{"start":5882.285,"end":5906.821,"text":"把法國跟捷克辦的兩個龍展也算進去然後如同你們的報告上面說南北院特展還有必送故宮送版圖書千年神域北宋西元亞極傳奇還有江戶服飾甲子萬年把這些放在一起叫做百年大展我實在是看不出策展的企劃性跟能力到底在哪裡可是實質上卻編列這麼多預算我真的很好奇院長你自己在你任內可以迎接這個100plus我認為非常的特別"},{"start":5909.142,"end":5910.724,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術"},{"start":5921.997,"end":5926.458,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":5950.066,"end":5950.827,"text":"主席,這些展覽都是很重要的。"},{"start":5970.046,"end":5996.705,"text":"例如說爪子萬年必送這個都是一個非常經典的展覽國外的博物館界的話都會認為說這是故宮的一個……院長我從頭到尾都沒有說它不經典我是說可是你們現在列出來的大展我看不出它跟百年plus的詮釋關係你們的論述的話語能力到底在哪裡如果我們去看一個展我們想像的是這幾個展之間可以讓我連結到百年plus可是我現在在看到相關報告裡面也沒有更何況"},{"start":5997.165,"end":6020.584,"text":"你們之前回給我的報告也才三句話就想要把百年plus講完我們回到最後一頁謝謝主席不好意思我從10月質詢11月審查預算1月收到報告只有三行字12月現在要審查預算我看到你們經費變得非常非常多可是卻沒有具體的計畫跟說明我認為這件事情它不只很難吸引台灣的遊客剛剛萬美林委員也說他希望可以吸引中國遊客我更想說的是"},{"start":6021.184,"end":6045.322,"text":"不管中國遊客要不要來我覺得是另外一個議題可是台灣現在每年到台灣來觀光的日本人跟韓國人絕對也都會對故宮有興趣可是我看不到一個論述的話語的能力好嗎院長所以我追了我從去年一直追追到現在已經一年了我們還是看不到百年plus的特殊性或者是他讓大家如何想像到我跟故宮百年plus的關係我認為這個部分故宮拜託要再加強"},{"start":6046.543,"end":6046.924,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":6059.161,"end":6085.435,"text":"故宮到台灣來每一件物品跟故宮的時代的接軌的一個關係那這個東西的話當然他會有一個陳述可是因為那個策展整個文案還沒有出來所以文案沒有出來的話他只是只能用一種比較好那最後一個問題如果真的像院長您說的我們現在就尊重您的規劃跟您的想像您認為這可以給故宮帶來多少人次的上升"},{"start":6088.619,"end":6099.953,"text":"如果因為百年plus你們的用心規劃跟企劃因為我們在做一個企劃我們當然會設定他的目標我們要走到哪裡去嗎我們當然就是北院250萬然後南院100萬350萬的話是我們一起的現階段的一個目標"},{"start":6104.619,"end":6124.79,"text":"好,那我們就來看看有沒有機會達到這個目標。如果沒有,我覺得認為回過來檢討如何跟不同的國家的遊客,日本的韓國或是我們台灣自己的本地遊客加強對故宮的認識跟想像。我認為這是故宮非常重要的任務。以上,謝謝院長,謝謝主席。是。好,謝謝陳秉渝委員。接下來我們有請林倩琦委員質詢。"},{"start":6134.559,"end":6160.975,"text":"好,謝謝主席,我們的院團人還有我們故宮的同仁,大家早安,大家好。那我們就請蕭院長。好,有請蕭院長。好,院長早。好,院長早。據本席的了解,您的立場一直認為兩岸文化的交流對於兩岸民眾的相互理解是相對正面的。所以故宮在推動兩岸交流上,是不是應該更積極一點?"},{"start":6162.797,"end":6176.335,"text":"前年北京故宮王旭東院長提到良安故宮是親兄弟北京故宮跟故宮本院從來沒有任何障礙"},{"start":6177.577,"end":6194.277,"text":"所以從他們的回應來講他們應該是相當有意願在文化交流上重啟一些可能性所以您本身應該對這個部分也是蠻正面的所以目前有沒有研議這個一個時程那最快有沒有再拿一些可能性呢?"},{"start":6195.819,"end":6215.414,"text":"目前當然沒有一個既定的時程但是事實上透過民間的管道跟我接觸說希望跟故宮有一個合作關係的這個一直都沒有間斷那事實上我們在協助交流跟人員互訪上面的話我們是開放的"},{"start":6217.003,"end":6244.153,"text":"好的所以這個部分我相信您應該很正面只是本席這邊希望您再更積極一點那在話語權的部分也可以再更更被了解而且基本上來講的話因為故宮文物出國的話有一個司法免扣押的一個無形的那個那個那個智庫在那邊所以要跟兩岸交流的話大陸過來的話基本上來講我們是沒有問題但是大陸"},{"start":6245.453,"end":6269.273,"text":"故宮的東西,國立故宮博物院的東西要去大陸的話基本上來講的話目前還是要有一個嚴謹的方式來處理好的,那這是這個區塊嘛但是就本席了解您在學術上然後有一些文創商品上也有一些想法所以本席最主要也是提醒那這個部分不要忘記這個故宮的一個歷史"},{"start":6272.315,"end":6295.501,"text":"我想今天有很多人也很關心故宮100的這個計畫那剛才本席也聽了一下目前的這個進度那我這邊也很關心因為民國14年10月10號的成立在我們的文化藝術上是非常的重要所以故宮在迎接這個未來2025年的故宮100我想很多人會很關心所以從剛才的這個紅委員提到"},{"start":6296.361,"end":6318.476,"text":"在故宮的整個對外的連接上跟相關部會是不是可以以故宮作為一個主體然後在2025年這樣一個主題上然後可以連結各部會讓大家了解有這樣一個可能性所以這樣竟然在文案還沒有出來我想這個部分可以提供文案上的一些參考那雖然您這邊也有人數的一個預估那250在本院那150在南院的話"},{"start":6323.9,"end":6343.693,"text":"如果能夠協同其他部會來把這樣一個主題連接起來我想量能上搞不好自然而然的就變得很高所以這是本席的一個提醒那至於這個論述權本席這邊也提醒那114年你們的願慶那你有很多一個很精彩的表演跟願慶的活動"},{"start":6345.034,"end":6346.555,"text":"展覽主題與文物選件展覽的佈置教育推廣上透過主題與學校的連結"},{"start":6361.602,"end":6362.903,"text":"主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院"},{"start":6387.073,"end":6395.198,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博"},{"start":6414.77,"end":6435.162,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":6435.322,"end":6437.705,"text":"不過這邊本席要提醒的就是說這個100plus是很重要的一個時間節點可是如果能夠透過這個100plus故宮100年的這樣一個主題讓大家在所有的展示上你們的一些展演上能夠透過這個機會連結"},{"start":6451.298,"end":6472.863,"text":"讓大家知道他不僅有這樣一個歷史性而且他有一個時間的標記性這個是本席在這邊要特別提醒的那也呼應了剛才那個陳委員所講的你們的話語權跟這個主題大家如何對這個100產生意義這是本席這邊的提醒而且也會在你們的業務內容上未來持續的去追蹤"},{"start":6474.463,"end":6495.732,"text":"本席就先做這樣一個提醒我想很多委員都有這樣提醒那包括其實我不知道還有沒有時間講但是你們百萬學子的悠遊博物館的計畫也是有委員關心但是你也可以透過這個計畫來把故宮100做一個連結這是本席其實你們在許多計畫上可以朝這樣一個方向讓大家從100"},{"start":6496.812,"end":6514.959,"text":"的這一年展開一個新的里程碑最後本席先談一下你們許多筆預算這可能你們要跟本席要做一個報告新故宮計畫的解凍書面報告跟新故宮公共化帶動觀光產業發展的中層計畫大部分是做硬體"},{"start":6515.819,"end":6519.201,"text":"總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管預算案總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管預算案總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管預算案總預算案"},{"start":6545.082,"end":6560.571,"text":"經貴編列有一點雷同所以這部分本席希望你能夠給本席一個很書面的報告然後告訴本席為什麼編在這樣一些項目下我感覺有一點重複編列不知道您這邊的看法"},{"start":6561.772,"end":6576.032,"text":"新故宮計劃基本上來講是一個公共建設計劃,可是它的經資比裡面是可以允許編列經常門的預算。當然這樣的經常門預算跟故宮的本預算裡面有沒有什麼"},{"start":6577.954,"end":6606.175,"text":"重複的部分我想這個我們會理清應該是沒有重複所謂的重複問題而是說去互補去補其所不足或是一個新興的計畫這個部分的話我們會用你們再檢視確認一下好不好那最後一個提醒當然跟故宮那個100有關但是也最重要就是這個百萬悠遊學子就我所知目前的數據就是你們接待偏鄉的學校目前41所我這邊有點焦急"},{"start":6606.835,"end":6608.697,"text":"姑宮100是一個很重要的主題話語權然後藉這個機會的推動讓大家對故宮從100"},{"start":6632.615,"end":6636.156,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":6658.504,"end":6659.445,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":6680.024,"end":6696.569,"text":"您們還是可以繼續這樣推動,我覺得這個方向很好。但是本席還是提醒,剛才外委員這邊有提醒,相關的計畫可能及早出來,大家也可以在這個學期的時間內去做一些處理。所以這是本席的一個提醒。謝謝院長。好,謝謝委員提醒。好,謝謝林倩琦委員。接下來我們有請陳秀寶委員質詢。"},{"start":6712.205,"end":6715.076,"text":"謝謝主席請校院長好有請校院長"},{"start":6718.942,"end":6742.882,"text":"委員早 院長早安 院長在我進入我的質詢主題之前我先就我們昨天晚上的一個很震撼的消息就是關於南韓政府緊急宣布戒嚴當然不久之後國會就通過戒嚴這個狀況我想請教一下院長我們目前故宮南北院有沒有跟南韓的博物館正在進行連展或是有這樣子策展的規劃"},{"start":6745.25,"end":6759.108,"text":"韓國的展覽,去年的話,亞洲藝術業主題國是韓國,所以我們在去年整個展覽非常順暢,完全沒有問題。而且去年的話,因為...院長,我是請教您說目前有沒有正在進行的聯展,或是未來有沒有這樣的規劃?"},{"start":6760.089,"end":6772.013,"text":"目前沒有目前沒有那其實我知道說我們故宮的這個文物界展交流呢一定是會選擇就是政局比較穩定然後就在整個國際情勢上相對就是比較不會有問題的國家但是昨天這個狀況是很突然的齁因為國際政局其實也是瞬息萬變這邊我其實是要提醒院長就是說未來我們故宮過於類似的狀況這樣緊急的狀況完全是出乎意料之外的狀況應該要有一套因應的辦法"},{"start":6787.858,"end":6803.516,"text":"關於我們的交流的國家臨時有怎樣政治的變化的話我們如何確保我們文物的安全我們有什麼緊急因應的措施這個部分希望院長這邊一定要很嚴謹的來研議對於相對的有突發狀況的時候做什麼處理來保護我們文物的安全"},{"start":6804.036,"end":6809.22,"text":"院長我這邊要提醒的是說萬一我們的文物跟國外交流的時候我們文物在其他人的國家那它有什麼緊急的政治的變化的時候對 這個我們要來研議因為過去我們是沒有做這一塊的"},{"start":6828.636,"end":6848.852,"text":"這個部分希望說你們要趕快嚴謹的來討論那接下來本期這邊要就我們故宮數位物件利用權利金達成利便利這個問題來就教我們院長目前我們故宮聯名的這個商品是越來越多元最近最夯的大家很熱烈討論的就是故宮跟屈臣氏聯名的這個商品"},{"start":6849.532,"end":6868.02,"text":"讓我們典藏文物可以走入我們民眾生活日常那本席過去也一直很一直都在提醒故宮我們要除了自己要開發周邊的也應該積極的跨界的來合作但是根據預算中心的報告我們故宮的數位物件利用權利金達成力是很低的我們從表格上來看在108年還有62.22%比"},{"start":6873.783,"end":6880.472,"text":"但是來到113年結算到7月的時候我們的達成率只有29.97%那這幾年最低最低的也只有13.75%那這個為什麼這麼低院長你們有沒有去了解過是什麼原因"},{"start":6890.886,"end":6914.301,"text":"與委員報告,故宮推出了open data,open data可以讓外界自由應用故宮的圖檔,所以在open data的部份IP授權的他的錢已經達成率當然是偏低,逐年降低,這是讓利給民間,但是出版授權跟品牌授權的話,"},{"start":6915.342,"end":6915.863,"text":"主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":6932.723,"end":6956.552,"text":"讓國寶的圖檔衍生出來的周邊產品可以走入尋常百姓家其實這也是我覺得很疑惑的地方當然院長您說的因為我們開放了部分的圖檔給民眾自己來使用但是其實我們自己本身開發的這些商品以及故宮聯名的商品都是引起很大的討論民眾都非常非常的熱烈那為什麼我們權利金的達成率是很低的我也希望說我們院長這邊要好好地探究我們如何來提升我們這個權利金的達成率"},{"start":6962.37,"end":6962.83,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6990.09,"end":6991.09,"text":"一張賣圖片的東西放掉。關於禮品的價格"},{"start":7005.895,"end":7009.816,"text":"姑宮北院112年度的遊客觀眾滿意調查結果顯示,針對禮品價格滿意度只有57.4%是所有調查項目滿意度最低的其中不太滿意的有7.5%非常不滿意的有1.4%院長你覺得這是什麼原因?就是說我們的這個"},{"start":7030.561,"end":7039.783,"text":"對這個禮品的價格不滿意但是院長您說的就是你們的調查報告裡面是說一個是因為禮品的價格太貴一個是因為禮品的明信片價格太貴院長你覺得是這個原因嗎?"},{"start":7041.318,"end":7068.439,"text":"不完全是這個樣子啦因為故宮基本上來講的話如果要在故宮或是用故宮人民上架的話故宮會要求他的品質那如果要求他的品質的話相對的話他當然他的價錢會反映在商品上面本席覺得說故宮的禮品集周邊其實我們要打我們主打的對象不只是外國的觀客還有我們自己本地在地的遊客那如果連這個售價是連本地的遊客都沒辦法介紹的我給你看一樣東西"},{"start":7071.721,"end":7074.427,"text":"這一次啊大家很夯的在討論這個院長你知道這個一包賣多少嗎?40塊"},{"start":7078.154,"end":7102.095,"text":"那你知道外面的商店這個一般賣多少嗎?呃...所以我就說這是品牌嘛因為有品牌的話...其實是一樣的東西但是我為什麼要特別跟您講這個東西其實很多遊客去到故宮很多東西他們都很喜歡包括我的助理他也常常去故宮參訪但是他們看到那些磁鐵板是他明明很喜歡他買不下手到最後他再買一包這個回來為什麼?因為這是所有的商品裡面相對是價格比較低的但是它已經是外面售價的兩倍了"},{"start":7105.538,"end":7128.524,"text":"議長﹗"},{"start":7128.564,"end":7137.586,"text":"這個是一回事我現在要提醒您的就是說我們走經濟質感的這個精品路線還是說我們走親切的評價路線我們的商品我們的價格如何做區隔我們如何去定位說我們今天這樣的紀念品或是說遊客他願意帶回去的商品我們如何來做界定我們如何做定位我們的客群我們到底如何去來符合我們的遊客他們所需要的來設定這樣的商品故宮有做這樣子的考量嗎"},{"start":7158.03,"end":7163.054,"text":"其實我們台灣的觀光客都會知道說只要在觀光地區買的東西一定比較貴一定比較貴那貴要貴得有價值他覺得說我願意去買即便說你這一包如果說他賣200賣300他願意去買的原因是什麼而不是說我逛到這邊我沒有什麼好買我只好買了一個我覺得還是很貴的東西那其實這個東西他吃完了之後他袋子就丟了他其實是沒有什麼紀念價值的"},{"start":7185.489,"end":7186.129,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮"},{"start":7207.685,"end":7223.994,"text":"所以這邊我還是要提醒喔這個部分呢除了就是我們這個授權之外我們對商品的定位我們對商品的這個路線我們還是要一個很清楚的這個客群的區分院長你能懂得我的表白嗎?是 這個表這個表達有夠清楚就是我是希望說您能夠對我們的商品我們怎樣的客群有怎樣的需求我們來做這樣的介紹"},{"start":7233.319,"end":7236.121,"text":"關於故宮的參訪人數這個部分因為其實之前院長您在這個記者在你們的參會的時候上面有講說你希望說你們達到你們的參訪人數有350萬"},{"start":7256.112,"end":7262.716,"text":"但是先到現在你也知道說這個人數是有相當相當大的落差我相信說到年底你也沒辦法達成這樣子的參訪人數那麼我們如何在未來我們去規劃說我們這些參訪人數如何從外國遊客這邊吸引過來包括我們自己本國的遊客這邊我想給院長一個建議那其實很多除了說我們要加強國外姐妹館這個合作之外呢"},{"start":7280.208,"end":7280.568,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":7301.076,"end":7323.487,"text":"道韓國旅遊的遊客或是在他們自己在地的遊客來做推薦然後我們再跟相關的旅行社或是旅遊網站來合作來做成一日的這個行程推薦我相信這個可以吸引到很多的國際遊客請院長跟我們故宮同仁可以思考我們既然要作為國際的博物館不只是我們的館長專業要很傑出那我們要怎麼彈性的應用這個行銷來提升自己在國際的能見度院長您覺得呢"},{"start":7329.947,"end":7353.264,"text":"謝謝委員的指導因為我們最近這個禮拜的話也要跟議會網去談怎麼樣讓那個國際的旅客然後可以接高鐵然後可以接旅館可以接故宮包括到藍燕去像很多我剛有提到說很多國外的名人來到台灣他們都會想要去故宮那我們藉由他們的旅遊路線來做成旅遊建議來做成一日遊二日遊"},{"start":7357.568,"end":7358.189,"text":"陳秀寶委員"},{"start":7389.055,"end":7410.442,"text":"院長其實很多人都會有一個大哉問就是我們的那些國寶典藏品在故宮到底有沒有得到妥善的保存而且到底有幾件我先請教一下院長你們最近一次清查我們院內的所有的典藏品是什麼時候"},{"start":7413.211,"end":7419.397,"text":"清查的話是103年103年啊依照博物館法的話是20年進行一次總盤點所以是103年103年10年前曾經清查過97到101年7月"},{"start":7436.129,"end":7457.899,"text":"所以到底是哪一個?因為學長你回答問題的時候,你怎麼會給我一個錯誤的答案?我前面的那個印象是錯誤,同仁給我的比較精確。所以正確來講是什麼時候?97到101。到101。101?對。101的清查過,然後按照博物館法應該20年內要再清查一次,所以下一次清查是121年前完成,我這樣講有錯嗎?"},{"start":7460.601,"end":7478.677,"text":"呃,理論上是這樣,沒有錯。好,那請問一下上次清查總共幾件?故宮點餐品總共幾件?呃,69萬多件,精確的數據的話,69萬多件是不是?對。要不要後面的提醒一下?因為現在的件數的話,就是歷年有兼政然後是會滾動,現在是69萬8千887件。69萬8,那裡面有分幾種等級?"},{"start":7486.391,"end":7488.253,"text":"國保幾件?現在當院長要怎麼樣的人可以當?"},{"start":7510.526,"end":7524.276,"text":"國寶在你們故宮博物院的典藏應該是最重要的一件事情結果我問你國寶幾件這個對你來講應該是太陽從東邊西邊出來一樣的答案你都答不出來國寶幾件因為我要精切的數字國寶幾件4900049000幾件49000好那下一個等級重要股物的話是3585835858好加起來大概"},{"start":7537.369,"end":7543.672,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":7562.901,"end":7585.591,"text":"外部委員參與那個參與盤點就每一次都要有兩位的外部委員每一次都要兩個外部委員那兩外部委員會重複嗎?不會?就同樣從頭到尾就是兩個外部委員沒有沒有不可能委員不可能不可能嘛對不對好那我想問一下除了外部委員參與清查之外調查報告出來之後還有一個外部稽查機制嗎?"},{"start":7587.159,"end":7609.599,"text":"請問請問請問請問請問請問請問請問請問請問請問請問請問"},{"start":7609.895,"end":7624.605,"text":"所以是否可以增加一個外部稽查機制就是你把你們清查的調查報告下次一定會下次怎麼做要怎麼做那如果現在我們可能現在大家都有這樣的疑問那我們現在可以怎麼去清查"},{"start":7625.649,"end":7650.333,"text":"現在怎麼可以藉由外部的機制來籌查我先講就是正常的一個記查程序的話就正常一個大盤點的話就是點檢我們叫點檢點檢的話是不只是看數量而且看作品的狀況那基本上來講的話要有業單位要有廣方的人要有兩位的外部的委員然後還要有政風所以這是一個內部沒有我講的不是你們內部我講的是外部"},{"start":7650.453,"end":7667.562,"text":"外部的機制的話當然就是說這個部分我們會研議也許找一個所謂的公證單位然後在整個盤點的過程裡面就派人參與因為現在我們變成要等到121年嘛但我就講了嘛我說現在就很多每次只要有故宮的議題大家都在問啦這些"},{"start":7669.904,"end":7692.977,"text":"國寶這些所謂你講的重要文物到底有沒有得到妥善保存它會不會遺失了我們不知道到底有沒有掉了我們不知道到底有沒有破損了我們不知道到底有什麼外部的監理機制可以進入到這個系統裡面讓大家可以知道其實這些國寶我現在是善意的讓這些國寶被大家知道有妥善的保存有什麼樣的機制可以做到公開透明"},{"start":7694.718,"end":7695.178,"text":"國立故宮博物院主管預算案"},{"start":7711.548,"end":7733.482,"text":"讓大家知道說故宮的國寶現在被妥占保存而且沒有遺失,明年前可不可以?可以,我跟委員報告就大盤點所謂的20年的遺失的大盤點之外的話我們每一季包括我自己包括那個單位的主管都會每一季都會抽點抽點的話是用電腦隨機去寫一件對啦那個是院長嘛那還是屬於內部我現在講的外部嘛"},{"start":7735.563,"end":7736.163,"text":"三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":7757.49,"end":7777.09,"text":"這個會議結束前好不好?好不好?然後1月20幾號前提一個初步想法給我我們把外部的監理機制把它建立起來因為太多人懷疑這件事情接下來幾個細部的事情跟你討論一下第一個有關於解凍案你這邊提到說解凍案其中有一項是要處理土黨的外流事件"},{"start":7778.973,"end":7793.294,"text":"在你們的後續改善措施裡面這邊有提到112年3月17號曾經有跟淘寶網發出律師函提出希望他們可以把那些打包的圖檔下架的主張這是你們的報告裡面所寫的"},{"start":7794.255,"end":7821.348,"text":"那這邊有講說確實有部分的成效啦因為部分商品已經下架可是問題是那個是112年3月做的已經一年多以前了那我們來看我們最近找到的資料我這邊列出來的全部都是在淘寶上面有一些店家他就是在做打包圖檔銷售的工作那這個部分在故宮的認定裡面其實這個也是不OK的這也是侵權的"},{"start":7822.108,"end":7837.039,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":7838.021,"end":7857.506,"text":"寫買過的店為什麼會寫買過的店因為我助理在今年年初的應該是第一次我們質詢院長的時候那是應該3、4月的時候已經半年前了同樣的店半年還一直存在代表說這半年來故宮對於要求淘寶下架這一些所謂的清錢店家沒有進行進一步的動作我想問說為什麼從112年3月之後就沒有再進一步的動作"},{"start":7862.093,"end":7874.35,"text":"根據委員報告就113年9月10月11月我們都有都有都有跟那個113年9月對所以112年3月之後就跳到113年9月沒有"},{"start":7877.867,"end":7877.887,"text":"〔記者〕"},{"start":7898.797,"end":7914.07,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":7914.51,"end":7914.831,"text":"同一家"},{"start":7945.551,"end":7969.474,"text":"這是清朝的其中一項之品嗎?這你認出來嗎?呃,跟人講認不出來。認不出來?對。因為我不是這個專業。你看他在修復的時候,他必須要透過顯微鏡,有的要放大65倍,有的要放大50倍。所以做非常細微的修復。那這個部分,真的需要專門的人才啦。如果沒有專門人才,沒有辦法做到。可是,"},{"start":7970.094,"end":7994.108,"text":"目前來講的話,資品人只有一個人可以修復,上次你跟你提過,那後來我們的結論是講說你要跟行政院去爭取人力嘛,不曉得有去爭取了嗎?我有跟那個人種那邊跟那個溝通,那他們現在也在進行故宮的人力盤點,那如果說短期沒有辦法的話,因為我們會用基金的方式先行禁用。所以說是指資品還是所有的各類的?"},{"start":7996.329,"end":8024.602,"text":"當然是製品,那製品的話基本上來講的話我們希望說找到一個類似的不是只會專修製品啦因為基本上來講的話他有一些人才的話如果他的那個修復的幅度比較廣泛的話可以修復到其他的器物因為製品也不是製品他也有什麼碼頭啊有什麼東西上面所以這個部分的話我們會去找適當的人才增補OK好好謝謝"},{"start":8028.454,"end":8028.615,"text":"羅廷偉委員"},{"start":8050.134,"end":8064.534,"text":"院長好是上次有問到有關於參觀博物館的人次喔不知道院長還記不記得當時院長有說參觀人次是沒辦法讓人家滿意喔覺得可以再加強一下具體怎麼做院長有想出解決辦法了嗎"},{"start":8066.744,"end":8091.092,"text":"因為故宮其實同仁都很努力我們辦的好的展覽然後辦了一些教育活動可是人潮沒有回流真的是很我們自己也覺得很不滿意但明年的話我們100plus的話我們會有一些重要的文物到南苑的話基本上來講是不管是北苑南苑的話我期待它的參觀人數都會增加所以院長您覺得您的具體作為就是將"},{"start":8091.972,"end":8093.854,"text":"主管預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管"},{"start":8112.75,"end":8122.015,"text":"之前馬英九總統執政蔡英文總統執政我們這些過往的旅客當中是不是入客是屬於大宗的?"},{"start":8123.927,"end":8144.566,"text":"路客在整個階段性的時候基本上來講把那個故宮博物院衝到高點可是當初沒有開放路客的時候觀眾其實也不少了但是你不能否認路客是佔極大多數那個時候是把故宮的參觀人數拉高到現在一直都沒有辦法突破的一個"},{"start":8144.986,"end":8166.146,"text":"就如同你所說的文化應該要有交流的一個橋樑但我們看到現在兩岸政策的一個僵局影響故宮參訪的人數似乎讓文化也受到了政治的一個限制這是非常可惜的這幾天我們看到陸生團參觀故宮陸生團都很興奮看到翠玉白菜肉心石清明上河圖本尊我想請問"},{"start":8167.247,"end":8190.465,"text":"故宮作為兩岸文化最高殿堂如果我們可以用文化取代口水用文化改變緊張關係以故宮作為一個平台推動兩岸文化的一個軟性互動讓文化外交超越政治的緊張院長你覺得這個有沒有辦法讓故宮成為兩岸文化交流的春暖花開的一個契機關鍵的一個鑰匙請回答"},{"start":8192.386,"end":8218.502,"text":"顧宮當然在整個兩岸文化交流的話會有一個一定性的作用跟影響可是如果要故宮變成是一個指標或是影響的關鍵的話基本上來講的話這個可能還要大家還要有有一點點共識當然不敢奢求一定當指標但是我希望能夠開啟這樣的契機未來透過這樣子的一個軟性互動文化交流"},{"start":8219.002,"end":8220.584,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":8233.656,"end":8261.482,"text":"這就是我們最重要的一個今天來到的一個目標那我另外要跟你討論省基部去年的報告故宮在數位轉型的時候未依照數位安全規範將所謂的系統變更管理的一個作業環境措施等問題加上去年曾經故宮文物高階圖檔外洩並被放到淘寶賤賣的一個事情這無疑就是對整個故宮資訊安全的一個疑慮我想我們當然全力的來衝"},{"start":8262.762,"end":8286.84,"text":"所謂的入課、入生來參觀故宮但是對於我們自己的資訊安全的保障我們是認為刻不容緩而且是寸土不讓在審計部也有這樣子的一個報告我想問現在審計部的一個報告故宮今年五月回應提出五項的資安改善現在目前有符合哪一些是ISMS的規範改進內容有嗎?"},{"start":8294.894,"end":8313.61,"text":"請說委員好那個數字是主任謝君哥第一次報告ISMS的制度我們已經多年在這個月要重新取得ISO27002的這個認證的延續所以我們大致上是有經過ISMS這樣的一個標準的作業你們最近是不是有委外辦理"},{"start":8314.77,"end":8336.732,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":8337.403,"end":8362.077,"text":"我認為不應該再有這樣子的一個事件的發生跟委員報告的確就是在兩年前的話就是有所謂的同人作業的貪圖便利把圖檔放在開放空間中但這個事情的話跟所謂的淘寶的賤賣圖檔沒有關係因為我們去清查所有淘寶的圖檔裡面基本上來講都是以故宮open data的居多"},{"start":8362.737,"end":8387.71,"text":"但是open data本來就可以自由取用可是他們把它打包上去賣所以這樣的作為不符合法。我想我們都非常的重視不管是剛剛有委員提到所謂的文物的保存到現在數位資訊安全我想我要再一次的最後下通牒如果故宮讓我們這麼不擔心讓我們這麼擔心我們不排除還要到故宮做考察深入的了解我想不要走到這一步啊院長這很難堪啊"},{"start":8389.915,"end":8410.222,"text":"那我想故宮國寶的一個出遊到台中後續我也想跟你再追蹤上次我有跟你詢問喔在11月24本席有問到故宮國寶的一個出遊去本席有建議故宮館長移屍到台中當時院長有承諾我會再研議喔研議的情形我現在還沒有收到任何的答案院長"},{"start":8411.758,"end":8435.273,"text":"這個部分的話當然就是我會再找那個國內館的館長去討論1624到現在你還沒找他我有跟他溝通那那個那個比如說像那個高雄美術館他們也都來了都希望說跟故宮再加強合作甚至連台北美術館館長都來跟我們洽談我是很認真的在邀請我是希望院長能夠達到這次我們的一個需求我再提一個數據"},{"start":8440.516,"end":8463.9,"text":"這是一百一十二年預算中心評估報告故宮國寶出遊我們看到一百零七年國立台灣美術館一百零七年台中花博以及一百零八年的故宮南院相關的參觀人次都在這上面我想歷年的數據再加上國立故宮博物院博物院在這一百一十二年度的部會管制計畫平和結果裡面有提到"},{"start":8465.08,"end":8472.042,"text":" 112年故宮國寶由彰化2.0故宮文物及相關的新媒體藝術展總參觀的是43,389人次以及故宮出遊我們相關的國寶出遊在台南美術館的一個展覽合作都有129,424人次"},{"start":8483.706,"end":8503.661,"text":"就參觀人次來做我們來看這樣子的數據分析我們台中市居冠當然展期的期限長短也都有影響那如果就期限去和國立美術館相比也是遠超出許多所以院長台中市南北交通重要的一個樞紐擁有絕佳的地理位置"},{"start":8504.341,"end":8519.736,"text":"無論是高鐵台鐵還是開車民眾都非常方便喔再一次的麻煩院長慎重的幫我們協助我想這個工作我一定會努力來完成這是我第二次拜託第二次爭取喔也歡迎台中來策展大概可以多久給我答案"},{"start":8521.7,"end":8524.863,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算二、審查114年度中央政府總預算二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":8538.669,"end":8541.351,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管主管"},{"start":8567.842,"end":8570.384,"text":"謝主席有請蕭院長蕭院長請院長早院長早先說結論板橋林家私人文物寄存沒有問題有問題是他們不遵守我們國立故宮博物院藏品徵集作業要點"},{"start":8591.297,"end":8614.905,"text":"故宮長期對外宣稱板橋林家的文物這個案子之所以特殊是因為1969年林柏壽先生寄存蘭千山館文物的時候這是故宮最早的一個寄存案那可是上一次尋答院長的時候你也是這樣講可是我覺得這種說法基本上邏輯不同怎麼說"},{"start":8615.865,"end":8630.87,"text":"因為你一方面忽略1948年金陵大學寄存明崇禎刊本大學出函共32冊這個事實再來你也忽略板橋林家實際上還有兩批的寄存文物除了1969的藍籤三館以外還有2002年林漢東先生代表寄存的557件的書畫跟文物"},{"start":8641.154,"end":8648.477,"text":"那2022年底民眾在公共政策的網路平台上發起搶救藍千山館的文物那國保留台灣這個倡議那大家才開始來關心藍千山館這349文物究竟何去何從那最終故宮是讓藍千山館文物續存的沒錯可是同樣也讓板橋林家其他的557件文物"},{"start":8667.225,"end":8669.206,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":8691.506,"end":8708.343,"text":"當然就是因為社會大眾關心板橋林家的議題那最早林博社他記場的時候實際上他是有一個監政的概念但是因為當時的整個社會環境跟那個所謂的監政的比如說扣減稅"},{"start":8709.364,"end":8712.487,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":8729.082,"end":8729.662,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":8753.698,"end":8754.398,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":8772.731,"end":8789.166,"text":"因為剛剛談到民眾在這個公共政策的網路平台發起的倡議院長也應該知道那一次的倡議的其中有一項訴求就是說必須將黃泉本蘭亭還有小草千字文指定為國寶避免這種國寶文物流落到海外"},{"start":8790.487,"end":8813.719,"text":"據了解板橋林家確實有成員住在香港院長你想想我們如果讓板橋林家利用國家資源寄存他的文物在我們世界級的台灣故宮博物院那麼久結果到最後這幾件的國寶級文物如果竟然淪落到中國又或者到其他國家去這不是在砸故宮的招牌嗎"},{"start":8815.16,"end":8817.801,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":8836.969,"end":8851.215,"text":"故宮的新制、這個產品徵集作為要點或或者現行的文資保存法第66條都有規定故宮對於自己保存的管理的文物我們要暫行分級然後報中央主管機關來備查而且其中還會具備國寶或者重要古物的這個價值的我們還要列冊去審查"},{"start":8858.378,"end":8877.887,"text":"請院長說明針對板橋林家既存906件文物預計要什麼時候完成國寶跟重要古物的審查因為當初故宮跟板橋林家確實簽了不平等條約所以他們根本也不甩故宮的心智所以我覺得故宮"},{"start":8878.547,"end":8878.727,"text":"議員主席議員主席"},{"start":8901.461,"end":8901.641,"text":"議員主席議員"},{"start":8918.522,"end":8938.261,"text":"國法或重要股物審定的話因為雖然故宮是保管人但是還是要尊重當事人的一個立場因為如果審定國法重要股物的話當然是不能出境那我們也很了解這樣的一個相互的關係但是我們會"},{"start":8939.778,"end":8939.918,"text":"議員主席議員主席"},{"start":8959.011,"end":8979.749,"text":"有沒有方法把這個東西就留下來這樣子?對,獄長你這樣講其實是跟本席的想法是一次的,就是我們要把這個文物永留故宮那現在就是說方法怎麼處理,那怎麼符合法規,不要讓它那麼特殊那我想這個才是解決這個事情的這個最重要的方法"},{"start":8980.35,"end":8996.084,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":8996.364,"end":9002.027,"text":"故宮有跟本辦表示說你們總計召開了6次的會議並且在1972到1978年間有運用這筆經費去印製出版品或收購200多件的文物但是2018雙方續約之後依這個合約就來進行所謂的日後經費的運用同時故宮也宣稱說假設日後板橋林家不會再繼續"},{"start":9024.36,"end":9041.783,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":9041.983,"end":9058.491,"text":"再來這筆經費至今為止的運用看起來好像都需要經過板橋林家的同意而且如果相當的部分是必須用在替板橋林家來維護他的私人文物那故宮要怎麼說明這筆錢是你自己的?"},{"start":9061.316,"end":9082.674,"text":"跟委員報告就是說文物的技長的話當然就是他有一個邏輯可是這一筆一百萬的話他是監證監證的話是完成監證的話基本上來講就是故宮的財產那故宮在使用的用途賠償只是知會對方其實對方並沒有說一定要他們同意就讓他們知道說這個錢如果說這一百萬"},{"start":9085.356,"end":9086.278,"text":"是故宮的那當然故宮要怎麼使用無需經過他們的同意才對啊才是我們的嘛"},{"start":9092.921,"end":9117.558,"text":"所以這個部分的話就是有關資料的部分我們輸入資料會給委員可是我在這邊很肯定的就是說這一百萬的話是監證監證的話基本上來講的話就沒有所謂緩緩的問題那另外的經費的應用的話當然就是我尊重歷任的那個院長故宮他們怎麼樣去處理這個經費但是我的任內我也跟同仁討論過我也不會去用這一筆經費"},{"start":9118.519,"end":9120.261,"text":"：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":9135.721,"end":9135.861,"text":"議員主席議員"},{"start":9155.135,"end":9172.486,"text":"普新瑜、王士傑等的寄存案。還有金陵大學、江西省政府教育廳、陳芝麥夫人的寄存案。這個事情故宮一開始都沒有跟本辦說,都是我們一再追問之後,故宮才會有回應。"},{"start":9173.266,"end":9197.712,"text":"所以我想說故宮給的資料其實都沒有這些那依照新制或者是舊制還是像板橋這樣的這個置身於這個制度之外我們都不曉得到底是怎麼樣處理這些寄存文物所以是不是請這個院長能不能公開的這個透明的接受監督然後像做一個表格像本席秀出的這種PDD一樣然後清楚提供給本辦好不好"},{"start":9198.372,"end":9204.656,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":9227.63,"end":9245.253,"text":"謝謝院長謝謝主席謝謝林金委員接下來我們有請吳春成委員質詢有請院長院長請委員早院長好"},{"start":9258.066,"end":9282.324,"text":"恭喜這個故宮要百年喔百年喔但是我不曉得院長百歲宴慶不是百年不能用叫百年喔沒有啦現在百年都是好事啦那那個但是呢不曉得這個院長的心裡是酸甜苦辣是覺得很歡慶還是憂心忡忡"},{"start":9286.013,"end":9310.199,"text":"還有沒有百年?充滿了正面的正能量對期待很好我們沒有悲觀的權利本來就這樣子政務官都應該這樣子我在問有些部會就有些部會那個蠻悲觀的特別對高齡社會充滿悲觀的想像高齡基本上來講也是故宮現在主要的服務對象"},{"start":9311.98,"end":9332.255,"text":"對對對應該是這樣子所以等一下要請院長回答一下這麼大的市場你們怎麼看但是呢我要講今天我要講文化問題在2000年民進黨執政之後的時候我有寫了我有註述文化保台論"},{"start":9334.909,"end":9337.592,"text":"以文化為戰略保護台灣"},{"start":9348.413,"end":9371.352,"text":"那怎麼善用這一個所以在文化寶台當中故宮就是一個戰略的中心這個你認同吧在2000年之前台灣是華夏文化的燈塔故宮是整個全球對於中華文明的一個一個向心力的地方就在2000年"},{"start":9372.799,"end":9391.693,"text":"那時候很多路客來台灣看了很感動因為他們在搞文化大革命的時候都把很多的中國文化都把它砸毀了說幸好你們把它拿到台灣來保存在台灣但是現在換我們開始想要搗毀這些文化"},{"start":9393.258,"end":9394.759,"text":"國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":9411.069,"end":9431.73,"text":"政治蠢人多,造成世上苦難。你看那些歷代領導人,都是想要砸毀文化耶。為什麼會這麼蠢蛋的事情?我們現在也在幹這種事情。好,第一個我要問,還是跟你確認一下,故宮是不是中華文化?故宮是中華文化嘛,對不對?是,沒有問題嘛。"},{"start":9433.012,"end":9447.168,"text":"台灣重要資產故宮典藏全世界最龐大的中華文化虧寶也世界文明人類文明的重要遺產"},{"start":9448.857,"end":9463.071,"text":"那所以這個在世界國際的博物館當中就是名列前茅台灣的故宮在國際當中很有地位那要請問院長在當前的台灣政治情勢和氣氛下"},{"start":9464.417,"end":9480.669,"text":"目前以中華文物為主的故宮博物院是否會有感到矛盾?站在博物館的管理者的立場我絕對沒有任何的矛盾所以故宮只是一個博物館"},{"start":9482.283,"end":9506.15,"text":"故宮當然是一個博物館它是一個華夏文化的一個重要的收藏的一個地方不是一個國家文明的一個國家文明的因為故宮地位跟博物館一般不一樣欸為什麼會所以呢這個上次我有問過你們把自己定位是一個博物館"},{"start":9507.423,"end":9511.515,"text":"中性的博物館收集來自各地都一樣"},{"start":9514.531,"end":9540.287,"text":"這個影響到,這不是只有這樣子,這影響到你的經營策略。我知道,可是如果是說要協力來講的話,新博館協的概念裡面的話,都不會把博館當作一個意識形態的工具,那當然沒有錯啦,它的確是,可是因為新博館協的話,基本上來講,大家都講這個東西。沒有啦,我知道這是你的危難,這個不叫意識形態,國家文明,"},{"start":9541.488,"end":9541.688,"text":"議員主席主席"},{"start":9558.083,"end":9572.321,"text":"故宮過去是外賓參訪台灣的首選我們看本來預估今年應該有170萬的國際訪客來造訪故宮但是截至到我現在的資料是10月24只有70萬一半都不到"},{"start":9573.903,"end":9602.446,"text":"包括我們經典的故宮的精選網站瀏覽次數也從過去2021年的327萬次下降到今年54萬次感覺故宮在的吸引力大大下降那為什麼呢?院長沒有吸引力不是沒有吸引力當然沒有錯就是委員也講說不能一直講疫情疫情已經過去了但是疫情的確是有影響所以包括"},{"start":9603.752,"end":9624.198,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管二、審查"},{"start":9633.291,"end":9660.792,"text":"亮點就是因為你在你位在整個世界爭端的第一線嘛所以呢就是有亮點嘛還沾沾自喜齁那好這個跳過去齁這就是我們的問題啦腦袋有問題啦OK外交部齁最近你們今年八月有12件的文物齁要歸還給中華民國的中華文物也收到給故宮來典藏欸這個也感覺到很奇怪"},{"start":9662.386,"end":9668.58,"text":"中華民國的東西或者是中華文物的東西外國的要還為什麼不還給中國要還給台灣故宮"},{"start":9671.229,"end":9676.15,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":9699.468,"end":9716.887,"text":"最近賴總統說中華民國論述要持續下去這當然就是各自解讀啦各自解讀也不太清楚他講的這句話是什麼意思但總之好像"},{"start":9718.328,"end":9743.625,"text":"好像是要接受中華民國把這個就是中華民國過去好像跟台灣是一個對立的概念現在想要把它化解一下它的矛盾現在看起來但是話是這樣講實際好像也沒有做但是至少有一個方向那我請問在賴總統這樣的一個方向下故宮是否要調整你的定位"},{"start":9745.964,"end":9751.348,"text":"國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":9776.521,"end":9789.471,"text":"沒有這個問題喔因為你本來定位是南院要有亞洲文化博物館那北院是華夏文化館現在說要把它變成南北院定位一致那到底是誰定位了誰?誰統戰了誰?"},{"start":9791.092,"end":9793.674,"text":"國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":9806.801,"end":9818.453,"text":"故宮去中化了之以身在其。所以這一個,現在都在去中,我們課綱也要去中啊,什麼要去中,所以呢,我看你們的報告裡面都不太,寫下筆下字都有小心翼翼。"},{"start":9827.663,"end":9856.582,"text":"不然你們都會有文字獄的問題我告訴你來下一頁你看這個文字獄來了對不對你看南韓宣布戒嚴要剷除清北韓勢力因為有清北韓所以就要戒嚴那一天我們也是因為變成親中賣台的理由也要來搞這一套的時候你知道第一線要遭殃的就是故宮故宮是否為中共宣傳"},{"start":9857.743,"end":9880.61,"text":"有沒有這樣子你看連那個中生來台只是參訪一下中山女高的學生看到馬龍那個帥哥尖叫馬上覺得我們被統戰了你看網路就論戰成了一個玻璃心就碎成一片你知道故宮現在會不會有這種疑慮呢"},{"start":9886.314,"end":9892.575,"text":"主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院"},{"start":9913.328,"end":9914.069,"text":"國立故宮博物院主管國務委員"},{"start":9934.5,"end":9955.1,"text":"國務院長11月30日馬辦邀請陸生來台舉報故宮展間一度水洩不通很多人要來索取簽名等等當天我們比較擔心的是因為在展間當中有很多的國寶"},{"start":9956.237,"end":9966.323,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":9967.3,"end":9988.266,"text":"跟委員報告因為大美不遠的話本身它就是一個排隊的展覽那一天的確是因為有這個訪問團的話就讓場面有點稍微混亂一點可是因為故宮基本上來講本來就已經有因應所以只是人潮擁擠一點的話其他的志氣都還算正常"},{"start":9988.686,"end":9989.486,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":10015.034,"end":10026.064,"text":"一般熱潮到故宮南院,如果北部沒有看的話我在這邊呼籲現在不用急著去擠會場,到南部南院去看也蠻好的。"},{"start":10027.961,"end":10057.136,"text":"那我接下來想要問的就是我們的新故宮計畫這個北部的院區我們有一個擴建的一個進度那當然我們知道這個北院的整擴建的部分其實10月底執行率也高達了84.12%那目前我比較想要知道的就是在至善路的入口那個無障礙的通道的新建的一個工程那目前的這個這個工程進行的狀況如何然後它的期程大概是多久"},{"start":10059.409,"end":10067.392,"text":"這個基本上來講臺北市政府的杜花他們已經審議通過然後現在在進行細部設計然後就是那個計畫的公開閱覽"},{"start":10070.484,"end":10072.886,"text":"我們現在的話程序上的話是明年開工然後116年完工"},{"start":10088.82,"end":10091.541,"text":"第116年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":10112.188,"end":10127.993,"text":"今年到10月底我們的參觀總共合計的人次是到達的人次大概是56.89%那這個部分其實我們當然希望就是明年又剛好是這個故宮100plus"},{"start":10129.053,"end":10133.216,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":10154.518,"end":10174.683,"text":"我想故宮北院的話反部回升所以事實上今年的話大概可以達到180萬200萬達不到那故宮南院的話可以超越去年95萬這個我想是可以達到的雖然是不理想但是事實上是一點點的進展"},{"start":10176.903,"end":10201.278,"text":"南北縣我希望明年還是達到350萬為目標350萬的話北縣會比較有挑戰但是南縣的話明年超過100萬絕對沒有問題因為南縣的話明年我們會把一些重要的文物到南縣去展另外的話我們也會跟旅行業者跟旅館業者做一個套票讓他們去看南縣的這些大展"},{"start":10202.159,"end":10227.005,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":10227.005,"end":10244.206,"text":"獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲"},{"start":10244.266,"end":10244.606,"text":"議員主席議員"},{"start":10266.172,"end":10288.974,"text":"至於我們看到的這些數據從108年到113年在第1屆姊妹館的部分只有在111年的時候其實我們增加了一個一館那另外在簽訂MOU的部分在110年的時候只有增加了一個單位一個機構那這個部分我們是在跟國際來做跨國的一些合作的部分是有碰到什麼樣的瓶頸嗎?"},{"start":10291.299,"end":10305.784,"text":"這個部分就是在疫情期間的話當然就是實際上之前的簽約的話就是有點有點延續但是有延續但是停滯了對停滯了那我這兩年的話我們就開始把那個現在的回來"},{"start":10306.124,"end":10306.925,"text":".故宮到捷克展覽跟到華國展覽"},{"start":10326.565,"end":10347.448,"text":"故宮的文物出國展覽的話會引起一個國際的效益所以這個國際的效益的話基本上來講的話在國際宣傳上面就會增加那其他的地方的展覽我們也都在談那接下來因為時間的關係我們直接進到下一題就是故宮這個我們特別開放所謂的這個"},{"start":10348.889,"end":10352.472,"text":"資料深度運用計劃5年計劃110年至114年總預算包含線上學校平台功能設置運用數位科技進行AI教學運用"},{"start":10368.784,"end":10383.413,"text":"那當然也特別要響應這個教育部108的新課綱以素養為導向為主軸強化這個故宮的文物跟現場教學的一個環境的一個結合但是我想要問的是就是113年故宮開設的這個所謂的教育頻道其實跟前幾年開放平台學習的人數這個人數落差很大從這個24萬、34萬一直到113年剩下9萬7"},{"start":10397.602,"end":10420.486,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":10420.566,"end":10427.59,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案。"},{"start":10450.12,"end":10471.108,"text":"因為那個落差的話實際上是差太多了好,那另外最後一個問題我想請教的就是我們的故宮的教育頻道這個線上的一個學校就聽我說文物這個部分雖然我們有一個英文版增加了國際化可是到目前為止聽說是兩年沒有更新了這個有其他的規劃還是為什麼兩年沒更新這個部分可以"},{"start":10471.948,"end":10498.077,"text":"這個部分我再了解一下到底是那個是讓他休眠還是說有其他的中共發聲好就是內容沒有更新的部分同仁講了說之前是一個專案專案結束之後的話就是就不會再更新也沒有其他的新的規劃我再了解一下因為這一塊我再了解一下我看怎麼處理再麻煩跟我們辦公室提供一下資料謝謝謝謝主席謝謝"},{"start":10500.691,"end":10501.071,"text":"張雅琳委員"},{"start":10521.401,"end":10533.752,"text":"院長好,我想請問一下,我們在114年的院慶總共有25項展覽活動,那我想做一個展認對它的中心思想,所以可不可以請院長簡單的告訴我,你們這次的策展的中心思想是什麼?"},{"start":10535.944,"end":10553.539,"text":"展覽的話當然最主要就是說如果現場的展覽的話是呈現故宮博物院現場的精華那現場的精華的話基本上它其實有一些條件的限制很多人就說為什麼你不一次把故宮所有的精品通通出來因為有一些現場的文物有一些策展的概念"},{"start":10554.642,"end":10555.363,"text":"主管故宮博物院主管預算"},{"start":10574.793,"end":10591.061,"text":"聽起來是這樣子,我可以這樣說明嗎?對,當然就是說我們可以透過一個方式來展現故宮的典藏的一個特殊性存在。好,我懂了。那我想問一下,因為我在之前的新聞裡面也有看到就是說我們希望可以成為全民的故宮、世界的故宮。"},{"start":10592.822,"end":10615.988,"text":"我想了解因為這個要展示我們的武力展示的話那有一個非常重要的重點那就是我們到底要如何讓所有人回到你剛講的全民的故宮世界的故宮所以我今天的論述今天的質詢就會在這個論點上面來跟院長做一些討論那最主要就是說我們的全民故宮我今天要達到這個目的我們的方法跟策略是什麼裝瓶展示就能夠達到全民的故宮嗎"},{"start":10623.796,"end":10640.106,"text":"當然這是一步一步努力的目標,不可能憑任何一個單項的業務。對,所以我說您的策略是什麼?因為我們喊到這樣子的目標,那從這個院長的展示是一個,那我們重要的策略是什麼呢?"},{"start":10640.686,"end":10642.449,"text":"預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":10655.748,"end":10660.531,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":10685.864,"end":10690.225,"text":"三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算二、審查113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":10708.891,"end":10731.845,"text":"我想問一個問題喔,就是說因為我自己在英國我寫的論文就是寫觀光行銷,台灣的觀光行銷怎麼做那當然其實博物館行銷也是一個非常重要的重點那它其實是一種叫做Integrable Marketing這件事情呢它就是無形的東西我們要如何做行銷我想這個國外,我想台灣也有非常多的專業跟學者我覺得是不是應該要啟動一個調查研究啊"},{"start":10732.285,"end":10750.027,"text":"研究到底為什麼我們的人數一直無法回升?是廣告沒下隊呢?還是TA沒抓精準呢?還是你策展的東西不夠吸引人呢?我們是不是可以啟動一個相關的研究調查?幫我們怎麼去做到全民的故宮、世界的故宮呢?因為現在聽起來這樣瞎子摸象的感覺。"},{"start":10751.141,"end":10780.901,"text":"OK 好 那我們試著來啟動一個所謂的調查看看能不能幫故宮針灸就是為什麼觀眾不能回流的原因對 因為我想重點還是要找出問題嘛對症下藥他才有可能幫助我們達到我們當年的水準那再來就是在下一個點我也想要針對就是百年故宮展裡面其實呢只有一個展是針對於孩子的就是2025的夏日親子藝術月而已"},{"start":10781.521,"end":10804.708,"text":"那我想回到一個更重要的重點就是說我一直在質詢我們北院的親子的兒少人數進場次是少的那代表是說如果我們沒有在現在去recruit這個年紀的人去招募這個年紀的人進來故宮的話未來他到底會不會進故宮是一個大問號所以我們是不是應該要來著重這個部分來去努力可是呢我也發現喔"},{"start":10806.926,"end":10808.328,"text":"總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":10823.047,"end":10824.128,"text":"總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管主管"},{"start":10841.729,"end":10855.008,"text":"這個可能要更詳細的資料可以去了解可是因為這個東西跟路程的演進跟偏鄉如果要到故宮的話當然相對的成本就會比較多所以這個部分我們要進一步的了解一下"},{"start":10857.111,"end":10883.337,"text":"這就是為什麼說我們必須要更精準的去看我們現有的這些數字上去了解原因因為我看到你們直接在113年直接大幅砍了跟11年相比砍了51%對半砍了這個經費如果我們今天要招募讓世界的故宮全民的故宮的話我看這些所作所為好像都沒有達到我們想要達到的目的因為我們一直沒有針對親子兒少的族群來做相對的一些方案"},{"start":10885.217,"end":10904.011,"text":"根委員報告我比較關心的就是整體的服務人數有沒有減少因為如果經費的減少是因為我們本預算的減少但是因為我們從外面募集的經費資源比較多那基本上來講如果可以讓他的人數上升然後我們本預算減少其實不是壞事"},{"start":10904.611,"end":10931.673,"text":"如果你預算減少人數上升當然非常好表示你精準嘛你非常精準嘛可是你現在就是預算增加人效素減少嘛那是不是有問題這個是麻煩您做一些研究調查那是不是可以在一個月給我一個提供我一個調查報告好不好我們來了解啦對症下藥啦那再來就是說我也希望如果我們了解出來我們是不是可以針對我們的兒少的方案有更精進的規劃呢因為兒少人次就是一直在下降嘛"},{"start":10932.93,"end":10936.873,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":10957.526,"end":10964.41,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關"},{"start":10985.282,"end":11005.42,"text":"我們的願慶和新故宮目前是在114年的預算書中願慶多項的預算都編列在新故宮計畫之下那這個現在是有3325萬但是在111年公開的新故宮計畫裡面卻沒有任何關於願慶的說明那您的回覆是說"},{"start":11006.261,"end":11028.292,"text":"因為是根據行政院所屬各機關中長程個案計劃編審要點來編列的可是要點中其實也有說明要變更主要工作項目需要修正原計劃等於就是說你要在新故宮計劃裡面編列願慶經費的話你是需要做變更計劃的可是我在資料裡面只找得到111年的計劃書裡面沒有願慶計劃"},{"start":11031.813,"end":11058.506,"text":"跟我們報告新故宮計劃裡面並沒有宴慶的那個活動軟體展覽經會沒有嗎?對,那個是我們跟那個主計總部而是在你們114年的預算書你3325萬都編列在新故宮計劃那是這個是這個應該這樣講就是說原來的原來我這樣講就是說沒有百年宴慶的話故宮基本上來講它每一個展覽是每一個檔期都還是有展覽"},{"start":11059.747,"end":11062.21,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":11084.071,"end":11084.231,"text":"張雅琳委員"},{"start":11112.51,"end":11117.534,"text":"謝謝主席我請國立故宮博物院蕭宗煌院長好蕭院長請吳委員長院長好今天是我們故宮的預算報告案的詢答那委員會關心很多故宮的規劃以及未來的進展那其中呢有關於我們故宮的參觀人士很多人在關心那也很多委員提醒故宮要來"},{"start":11140.329,"end":11144.871,"text":"持續的增加我們的行銷等等相關的計畫那要行銷就要錢就要預算所以我更加關心的是因為現在立法院正在討論這個才化法的修法尤其是在野黨的版本依照我們現在的試算倘若在野黨的才化法通過修法通過的話"},{"start":11164.7,"end":11187.633,"text":"我們整個國家整體的文化預算中央的文化部會受影響的會減少133億那文化部以外像故宮這跨部會的文化支出會受到衝擊的會減少了近88億那其中呢我們故宮非常重要就是我們的新故宮計畫這一個預算假設在野黨版本的裁判法通過我們會減少"},{"start":11195.278,"end":11198.161,"text":"總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":11220.777,"end":11221.398,"text":"國立故宮博物院主管"},{"start":11238.16,"end":11242.123,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":11258.973,"end":11265.979,"text":"中國學生以中國台北稱呼台灣馬英九基金會執行長蕭旭成說這不過是中國一個習慣性的講法我要講的是我們台灣人從來沒有這個習慣"},{"start":11276.347,"end":11281.829,"text":"例如棒球有人習慣講台灣對有人習慣講中華對這都是我們台灣人的習慣但是中國台北從來不是台灣人的習慣這是中國的壞習慣一個陋習甚至這個陋習已經衍生到對台灣全面性的霸凌而中國台北這個稱呼霸凌對台灣霸凌的受害者之一也就是我們故宮過去是不是曾經發生有中國的"},{"start":11305.635,"end":11334.691,"text":"民間公司甚至到中國的官方海峽論壇的活動以中國台北故宮的名號來對我們國立故宮博物院從事侵權的新聞有沒有這樣的事情的確是有這個問題故宮博物院一直非常關切所以我們也透過兩岸的律師在大陸那邊提告這個案子基本上來講最近已經被接受了所以我們也有成功的案例"},{"start":11335.111,"end":11347.142,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":11348.123,"end":11373.337,"text":"接下來是我們故宮也跟上國際的潮流一直在進行開放博物館的計畫其中就包括了open data我是非常的支持因為這是一個文化禁用權希望讓更多人能夠來使用我們的這個素材但是必須是非營利的那也是協助我們故宮來進行推廣院長我們最近9月是不是跟台灣維基媒體協會有簽署一個合作備忘錄"},{"start":11377.279,"end":11398.854,"text":"對這個是預計要進行什麼樣的計畫呢這個我們會跟那個維基他們的系統裡面去把故宮的展覽上傳到那個系統裡面那基本上來講透過維基的話就可以了解故宮的展覽的內容所以除了圖片之外也包括了影音"},{"start":11400.499,"end":11419.194,"text":"錄音檔相關的這些素材也會進入到維基的開放?現在在談因為基本上來講的話合作的初期階段的話基本上我們用既有的展覽素材上去那未來的話當然會透過更進一步的一個合作的議題這個會逐年來討論"},{"start":11421.701,"end":11425.982,"text":"議員提到開放授權與授權有競合關係,目前對於開放授權與授權有競合關係,目前對於開放授權與授權的合作,"},{"start":11439.567,"end":11459.582,"text":"規範上面有沒有什麼要提醒民眾的?因為其實我們是可以授權惡創嗎?怎麼樣是可以惡創但是又不會侵權?有沒有什麼要提醒民眾大家注意的?基本上來講的話open data的話就是像委員的資料就是我們可以不用申請然後現用途不用互惠就可以直接下載"},{"start":11460.282,"end":11486.425,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":11486.664,"end":11487.165,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":11497.85,"end":11499.531,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術"},{"start":11519.4,"end":11522.142,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":11545.278,"end":11571.969,"text":"當然人力上面不夠可是對於博物館的文物保存的話基本上來講的話經常性的保存維護是比較重要的而不是說平常沒有照顧然後變成說讓這個文物生病了然後才去找醫生去修復所以基本上來講的話就是這個基本的維護工作故宮非常重視所以目前來講的話文物都可以處於一個非常穩定非常安全的狀態"},{"start":11573.089,"end":11588.729,"text":"人力它的根本其實是在人才我看到故宮是不是昨天才宣布我們跟台師大有一個合作的計畫能不能跟說明一下這個建交合作的內容故宮除了跟台師大之外的話其實我們"},{"start":11590.691,"end":11617.637,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":11617.637,"end":11645.93,"text":"獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲"},{"start":11646.27,"end":11654.278,"text":"故宮是我們國家非常重要的資產所以我們也很支持你們去進行跨單位跨領域的合作那我就來建議因為剛剛很多人提到說兒少的這個展覽或資源的推廣其實呢文化部從今年開始我們編列一個預算每年有6億"},{"start":11665.169,"end":11666.49,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":11690.282,"end":11693.883,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":11719.474,"end":11719.594,"text":"姜蕙琳議員"},{"start":11742.997,"end":11745.218,"text":"委員長,故宮的門票收入並不理想由這個數字告訴我們在108年你的預算數是10.99億但決算只有8.51億所以你的達成率是77.59"},{"start":11758.784,"end":11775.261,"text":"大幅下降到了110年度是5.4億,決算是3.6億,所以你的達成率還是都是下降當然到112年的時候收入整個預算2.3億,你的決算是3億多增加"},{"start":11775.922,"end":11797.749,"text":"此等於是這個達成率128.3%那雖然說你109年到111年有首度的回升但是跟疫情前你的差距還是很大所以本期要請教故宮是我們的國寶為什麼我們的門票收入竟然會越來越少那你要怎麼樣去精進它呢請做說明"},{"start":11799.4,"end":11799.7,"text":"怎麼進進呢?"},{"start":11823.483,"end":11824.243,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":11838.59,"end":11863.176,"text":"一個月好我也應許給你因為在2015年故宮參觀的人數是亞洲第一名但是我們看到現在在下降觀光署我沒有看故宮你是89萬7中正紀念堂195萬奪下了冠軍所以我希望你一個月內把這個經濟方案來給本席那接下來本席要跟你討論的一個議題也就是說我們故宮有69萬間的這個館廠"},{"start":11870.798,"end":11891.805,"text":"但是我們看到只有16位的修護人員那文物跟人一樣啊文物如果生病他還是要看醫生啊他剝落啊等等這些事項但是文物如果良好他還是要保養啊對不對他還是要維護所以在這樣的一個情況之下你面對修護人員的不足的這個問題你要怎麼去處理"},{"start":11893.626,"end":11915.026,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":11915.046,"end":11916.787,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":11944.645,"end":11962.978,"text":"希望人總那邊可以讓我們增加人力那你預計要增加多少人?你現在16人你預計要增加多少人?我們在目前來講的話故宮南院的話我們希望說增加兩個人因為因為也沒有要院長你太客氣了本期已經告訴你69萬的這個場館呢館場裡面的這些寶貝你現在目前16萬16人那你告訴我我只要增加兩人不夠啦"},{"start":11973.425,"end":11992.24,"text":"你去盤點好不好說明清楚我們之前的話是提出11位要增加11位啦但是現在的話就是大概總我們現在暫時總委員兩位院長你這樣滿意嗎你11個連兩層都不夠他只給你兩個你滿意嗎你實際上是這麼困難對不對這些場館如果不見了就不見了欸"},{"start":12003.626,"end":12023.439,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":12025.7,"end":12039.946,"text":"請問我們現在整個結合數位科技開放資料與數位化的轉換建構數位化的教育資源這是非常的重要應用整個進行資料的AI教學運用等等"},{"start":12040.766,"end":12055.255,"text":"所以本席要請教你要怎麼維護我們的故宮在開放資料跟藝術教育服務能夠去結合因為你到了114年底你這個計畫是到明年114年為止但是本席認為似乎還是沒有辦法去完整所以一個議題要怎麼樣去結合第二個114年明年到會不會繼續有其他的方式來推動嗎請做說明"},{"start":12069.764,"end":12077.609,"text":"拜託跟委員報告,AI STEAM的教學是當前的一個趨勢故宮會持續來推動所以不會到114年就截止,會持續嗎?對,當然會持續,因為這是未來的趨勢不然很多的藝術文化者都很緊張我們不只到114年會繼續,是不是?是好,謝謝"},{"start":12090.246,"end":12102.59,"text":"謝謝楊瓊怡委員的質詢,謝謝我們現在開始處理解凍案我們今天處理的解凍案有三案我們現在請醫生員宣讀並進行討論與協商"},{"start":12105.165,"end":12128.7,"text":"第一、國立故宮博物院行為113年度中央政府總預算決議檢証綜合規劃與推廣行銷預算凍結300萬元專案報告請查照案。二、國立故宮博物院行為113年度中央政府總預算決議檢証文物安全管理與修復預算凍結100萬元書面報告請查照案。三、國立故宮博物院行為113年度中央政府總預算決議檢証新故宮計劃預算凍結2000萬元書面報告請查照案。修理完畢。"},{"start":12133.968,"end":12155.083,"text":"好,那我們現在一案一案來處理喔那第一案,那個在場的委員有沒有意見沒有意見好,那如果沒有意見的話那這一案我們准於動之提報院會那我們接著處理第二案那第二案是關於在113年度我們總預算當中的第四目文物安全管理與修復當時凍結100萬那現在書面報告有過來了那在場委員有沒有意見"},{"start":12162.949,"end":12183.567,"text":"故宮瓷器庫房改箱違規規劃期程從今年起到2030年已經開始分年執行本席是同意解凍那也會持續來監督只說除了文物毀損的問題之外我要提醒說故宮要關注文物竊盜的問題因為2023年8月中旬大英博物館英國大英博物館"},{"start":12184.167,"end":12187.368,"text":"事發一格星期館長引咎辭職故宮是否有文物都有確實編入到典藏記錄是否有這個能力或時間"},{"start":12200.014,"end":12201.595,"text":"主管故宮博物院主管主管主管"},{"start":12229.179,"end":12233.581,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":12258.352,"end":12277.389,"text":"目前葉言之委員說還有啦可是因為我們同仁一直清查都認為說我們只要上架的話我們就去申訴基本上來講的話他都會下架好所以就是我們會主動看只要有看到我們就會請他們下架但是他們還是會上去沒錯我知道所以要請你們持續來關注是謝謝委員是"},{"start":12278.45,"end":12280.472,"text":"總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":12294.525,"end":12296.506,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":12314.918,"end":12339.09,"text":"我發現關於新故宮計畫其實我們今天還是有非常多的委員都針對新故宮計畫提出了很多很多還是不清楚的地方那希望能夠故宮能夠再做說明那甚至於還針對新故宮計畫不同的這個地方也有很多的建議那包括其實我想剛剛那個配議委員其實也很關心那也擔心說因為工程是延續的"},{"start":12339.99,"end":12340.931,"text":"獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得"},{"start":12356.249,"end":12371.594,"text":"額,基本上來講故宮博物院的預算是一個延期性的預算,那如果是因為政府的預算也是一個大餅嘛,這個大餅的話總預算如果說他分配的比例減少的話,自然而然的話會壓縮到那個"},{"start":12373.914,"end":12397.27,"text":"這當然是,這個是基礎好不好,預算的精神基礎。所以現在我的意思是說,我們要解凍嘛,要解凍足夠充分的理由,像剛剛上面兩岸我們大家都沒有意見。但是關於新故宮計畫這件事情,你看從今天我們諮詢的委員對於新故宮計畫有這麼多的意見跟不了解的地方,那我認為是不是應該要再說明才能夠把這個兩千萬來做解凍。"},{"start":12399.111,"end":12427.632,"text":"根文報告雖然我們新故宮計畫的執行率的話一般來講的話都會超過95成那今年的話其實有時候是一個預算應用的問題像今年的話南岩的廠商的話他就要我們依照原先的規劃預撥經費那我們預撥經費的話就不夠不夠的話那有時候就是會技術上就是把它拖到明年那如果是有這個經費的話那當然我們就在預撥經費上因為你剛剛說那個不夠的部分是不夠多少錢"},{"start":12428.962,"end":12432.971,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":12439.608,"end":12466.576,"text":"所以我是這樣想啦我自己是比較建議說因為呢終究我們是支持這個故宮的而且故宮整理預算不是很多但是呢我覺得錢還是要花在刀口上嘛如果我們今天要處理這個解凍案但是這麼多的委員對於新故宮計畫還是有這麼多意見是不是我用故宮是不是需要再更詳細說明我們要不要再擇期再來處理還是院長還是兩個委員"},{"start":12471.367,"end":12498.225,"text":"因為兩千萬的數目不多那基本上來講的話解凍之後這個經費還是會回到新故宮計畫裡面也不會說因為我們就把它應用到別的地方去因為它是公共工程的預算公共工程的預算的話如果是沒有解凍的話基本上來講的話就是比較對我們是不是可以再補充數目資料然後就先行解凍"},{"start":12504.205,"end":12504.305,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":12524.285,"end":12526.767,"text":"請故宮今天就我們今天這麼多的委員只要有提到新故宮計畫相關的疑問跟建議的"},{"start":12550.88,"end":12578.11,"text":"我覺得是不是三日內你們回覆各委員辦公室因為這個為什麼我只給三天那事實上你們今天來這裡答詢就應該要答得出來了但是今天可能還有一些沒有準備的很周全或是問的題目的資料你們還沒有辦法準備起來那所以能不能三天內那就今天所有委員有問到新公共情話我們都詳實的給予回答那今天這個兩千萬的解凍本席就沒有意見這樣好不好院長可以嗎"},{"start":12581.141,"end":12581.961,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":12598.817,"end":12623.824,"text":"好,那我們解答案處理完畢了,現在我們繼續這個質詢。接下來我們鄭振全委員、鄭振全委員、鄭振全委員不在。蔓玉珍、蔓玉珍、蔓玉珍不在。張家俊、張家俊、張家俊不在。何新淳、何新淳不在。王美惠、王美惠、王美惠不在。蘇清泉、蘇清泉不在。陳冠廷、陳冠廷不在。陳冠廷不在。林楚英、林楚英、林楚英不在。高金素梅、高金素梅、高金素梅委員不在。"},{"start":12626.175,"end":12644.722,"text":"今天質詢登記的委員均與發言完畢關於今天會議作成如下的決議報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆"},{"start":12645.462,"end":12649.687,"text":"公務預算解凍案。厲三、業宜審查完均準與動之提報院會114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案"},{"start":12662.242,"end":12675.08,"text":"故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案相關提案請於12月12日下午2點前停出,令定期繼續審查。報告委員會今天的議程處理完畢,現在散會,謝謝各位。"},{"start":12700.216,"end":12728.053,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案二、審查11"},{"start":12729.9,"end":12754.609,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央"},{"start":12762.104,"end":12762.928,"text":"委員會主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}