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台電喜富總經理能源署 中華電信 數碼庫NCC我們那個翁主任秘書還有那個我們鄭次 崔鄭次還有我們陳主委簡董事長"},{"start":30.162,"end":35.568,"text":"台電你先答一下,一般的風災,太陽燃火要這麼多,您說的意思是它還有部分在發電嗎?是,那我想要跟委員報告"},{"start":52.472,"end":77.395,"text":"太陽能毀損除非是全面性的否則毀損了20%那其他80%大概他就還有70%可以把電到潰線透過潰線到我們電網對不對如果看他沿途如果說有一個據點沒有問題 這樣就好 感謝你能源署也有來開會就是要解決問題"},{"start":79.264,"end":92.471,"text":"那能源署就是說這個太空零零罐剛才在潰線 台電開那一支那麼這個潰線裡面可以潰一條網路線嗎?應該可以這是原本潰線的功勞 再來蘇華部你說有算刪掉它啊刪得很可憐 你有沒有人要買衛生紙給人家簽名?"},{"start":109.793,"end":127.756,"text":"剛才委員在跟你們說 三個都沒有錢三十本也要有一本 如果金金也可以拆英啊有三個有三個都沒辦法做事情 你還在這裡叫我很可憐感謝委員的說 你覺得真的都沒有錢能夠做你敢這樣說嗎所以 要有良心 國安要有經過頭"},{"start":138.434,"end":156.258,"text":"可以做多少算多少 譬如說因應災變 因應戰爭 真正沒辦法需要調研大家共同來針對五省及其這都可以討論 這樣就變得很理性了跟不是我告訴你 你們這樣做的問題 聽了之後才有辦法基地台 我請教電話電信"},{"start":164.229,"end":183.793,"text":"你剛才還在說要用那個桌子 書啊 布啊 又說要用發電機我請教你在現在中華電信 不管其他業者你現在有沒有還在使用全向的基地台有啊 有嘛 專用的有 定用的也有嘛海濱這麼空闊"},{"start":188.584,"end":213.942,"text":"您在發生風態之後,你有沒有加大功率?你剛才說的,NCC台電的電信跟電信夾車,有給你申請加大功率嗎?我們有跟他講說只要符合規範,他們的調整這段時間有沒有嘛他們沒有回報,但是我們跟他說要改善一般是調整天線角度不是啦,董事長"},{"start":215.916,"end":229.239,"text":"中華電信 現在要漫遊 其實今天就可以做所有的Data都有你吃到一斤的芒果 吃多少 吃幾分鐘 聽小怎麼聽 其實你們三間電信公司完全沒問題"},{"start":230.905,"end":251.018,"text":"所以剛才NCC在說,這災防法比較有辦法解決,現在補分有自愛難行主席我是建議說,藥廠下去進步,我們要開一個聯席,心責,給他促成其實現在就要做一件事,要萬倍嘛,因為大家消業費嘛,沒有人要省錢喝現在要踢小,怎麼會不踢"},{"start":259.454,"end":280.904,"text":"只要一個災害 緊急 應變一個命令下來 其實屬澳中華電信 跟其他的電信公司聽起來 我要說我市場電信公司還不算我就在做電信啊所以我告訴你 你基地台 你說沒電 我請問你基地台裡面 幾噸沒檢查mattery啊"},{"start":287.075,"end":296.6,"text":"委員替你報告基地台的電力是一段時間都會檢測那不是基地台電力的問題一段時間可以檢測你避風電力多久你設定幾點鐘給NCC說你對著基地台設定避風電力要多少空運行的起碼要能夠蓄電4小時那高抗災要72小時"},{"start":311.526,"end":325.149,"text":"70里休息那這是屬於規格標好的為什麼停電後後期在台有的失靈有的還在運作有的失靈我就影響我電信你們剛才討論費率599到699到799我奇怪 幾個月有信號我比較沒有我2699吃到飽我是你們的VIP我2699吃幾頓 你知道嗎"},{"start":340.131,"end":351.84,"text":"為什麼我到長沙也沒電 你的行動通訊車有在那 郭國文不錯 他調兩台在那我也沒有 我也沒有信號 你是大小人看我要去勘測總要把我當起來我也沒有 我還吃現場年輕人他吃到你的基地台 吃到你行動機立台的信號 我還吃他的 我還連結他的"},{"start":367.25,"end":381.66,"text":"所以我在這裡要跟你們說 蔓藥也好 要做一件事 但是不要拖了啦主席 我覺得這個再拖就沒意思了這樣是需要雷震波移椒災防法 下令說現在這時就可以跨越別蔓藥 蔓藥之後 因為鐵燒燒燒你們都沒問題嘛"},{"start":390.436,"end":408.387,"text":"很簡單的 這些東西炸了都將空在你們手裡所以不需要去替這個無分嘛現在就是說 財庫 我剛才在跟你們說開花 要有一個應變西部 太陽影射這麼多 美麗的大地 也不像台灣讓你們囤大到這樣 不然你們也回饋一下就是說 太陽明顯起的時候 真的天災地變來你們也不怕 八月 九月 十月 還有可能的風太大"},{"start":420.51,"end":436.936,"text":"風太過來 會變成怎樣所以在基地台 每一個基地台的挑釁所他要把電送回去台電的電盤的時候在這個地方 我請問你 能建立一個臨時的鐵鐵22管7樓管的避兇電塔嗎其實那是完全沒有的 這只有一個結構問題當時剛才我說的意思是什麼 你聽到沒有"},{"start":451.209,"end":459.556,"text":"所有電網都回電的時候 電位條倒了沒電的時候 但是這條零售海濱這裡的太陽能發電是有電的它的電要送到你的電網也送不回來坦白講 開線可以送到 但是電位條你送不進來是不是這樣 台電是不是這樣它發電送出去 我這裡的發電送出去到你的電網 但是我在這裡沒電能吃"},{"start":478.936,"end":494.323,"text":"我請問你 這樣可以在當地一個特定所在那裡的電 不要說給社區這裡因為社區就是說 緊急救災所要用的電可以直接對這個特定所 噴出來在現場做一個緊急的韌性 強化你們每次都說韌性 這就可以強化韌性你們參加的 力猶猶的太陽林公司 怎麼不蓋這個火花"},{"start":506.465,"end":507.686,"text":"技術上是可行"},{"start":523.622,"end":546.016,"text":"不要說可行啦 但是啊 但是的能言俗慣啊NCC要求的啊 司法部給他要求的啊主席這是很簡單的事情 但是沒有人要去做也不知人 也沒有人要去煮飯你以為那裡有多少案中那裡有多少案中 一百案中就可以有一百的基地台"},{"start":547.165,"end":563.213,"text":"臨時的 所以我剛才跟你講 虧欠為什麼因為中華電信你做一條顧問日 那不開很多錢 因為功勞都好了嘛電算好 董事長你跟我說 功勞都好的情形台電的開算功勞都好的時候 拜託你中華電信配一條顧問 光線顧問日 要開很多錢嗎不用啦 齁 董事長我說這樣有利嗎 齁 真清楚 這樣是不是問題要解決啦"},{"start":575.318,"end":584.853,"text":"結果 大家覺得很不白天晴到六點 真可惜啦 國家用這麼多資源 不用這麼多公務人員大家都不敢講真話 都要配合他說 啊沒有錢喔 有勝算啦齁 你沒有錢能做啦齁"},{"start":589.918,"end":613.722,"text":"聽到心情痛 災民在那裡很辛苦 你聽得懂嗎你看災苦的人 不要說人家在表演了 解救就救了這是你們可以做 你要了解 災民在那裡的時候沒水沒電 最主要一定是沒消息 這是他最恐慌 內心的恐慌會從這裡來可是今天你的忙喔 幸好讓他在外面可以聯絡他就不會怕 他心就不會怕"},{"start":618.41,"end":632.093,"text":"明確在這裡啦 所以我建議說你們看保肥也好 NCC也好 塑化部也好 台電也好 臨環署我剛才在講這個問題 其實是味噢中油啦 沒喝多久人家說蝦丁就要這種貨來牛 你看他給我們賺錢賺錢 一個案中給我們賺幾百億叫他在那裡蓋一個基底起來 一個鐵塔起來"},{"start":641.172,"end":657.355,"text":"建立一基二十米的鐵塔一筆不惜技術這樣建立我們臨時村子整個都廢物了基地都廢物了我們可以臨時建置因為怎樣 當地有電源有古往潰線董事長我說這樣有理嗎沒有理有啦 如果有電 當然基地都會有電有電的問題我替你解決了嘛 好不好感謝您謝謝我們謝龍介"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":837,"blocks":[["謝委員龍介：（12時44分）主席，請台電、中華電信及數發部。"],["主席：請台電許副總經理、能源署翁主任秘書、數發部闕政次、NCC陳代理主委，還有中華電信簡董事長。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：委員好。"],["謝委員龍介：台電你們先回答一下。"],["許副總經理國隆：是。"],["謝委員龍介：這次風災造成太陽能毀損這麼多，你們的意思是還有部分在發電嘛？"],["許副總經理國隆：是。"],["謝委員龍介：是吧？"],["許副總經理國隆：是，我想要跟委員報告……"],["謝委員龍介：沒關係，有就好了。太陽能除非毀損是全面性的，否則毀損了20%，其他80%，大概還有70%可以把電透過饋線到我們電網，對不對？"],["許副總經理國隆：對，如果它沿途有一個據點……"],["謝委員龍介：沒問題，這樣就好。"],["許副總經理國隆：了解。"],["謝委員龍介：感謝你。能源署也有來嘛！開會就是要解決問題，能源署就是管這些太陽能的，台電在饋線花那麼多錢，這個饋線裡面可以配一條網路線嗎？應該可以吧？在原本饋線的管路裡。","數發部你們說預算被刪掉了，被刪到很可憐，你們真的沒錢可以買衛生紙給人家擦鼻涕，剛才林委員在問你們，你們說刪到都沒錢，刪了一半也還要另有一半啊！如果緊急的話也可以採用，刪些預算就沒辦法做事情？你就在這裡裝的很可憐！你們敢說真的都沒錢可以做，你們敢這樣說嗎？"],["闕次長河鳴：報告委員……"],["謝委員龍介：所以不要為了這個，希望要有良心啦！官員要有肩膀，可以做多少算多少，譬如因應災變、因應戰爭真的沒辦法，需要朝野大家針對預算共同來支持，這些都可以討論的，這樣就變成理性了，不是嗎？"],["闕次長河鳴：謝謝委員支持。"],["謝委員龍介：我跟你們說啦！你們這樣「癢的不抓，痛的抓到破皮！」針對基地臺，我請教中華電信，剛才數發部還在說要用發電機，我請教中華電信，不管其他業者，你們現在有沒有還在使用全向的基地臺？"],["簡董事長志誠：有啊！"],["謝委員龍介：有嘛！有全向的，也有單向的嘛！海邊這麼廣闊，你們在發生颱風之後，有沒有加大功率？你先不要講，請教NCC，台電、中華電信跟其他電信業者有跟你們申請加大功率嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們有跟他們講只要符合規範，他們的調整……"],["謝委員龍介：沒有啦！在這段期間有沒有？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：他們沒有回報，但是我們跟他們說要改善。"],["謝委員龍介：沒有就好。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：一般是調整天線角度。"],["謝委員龍介：不是啦！董事長，中華電信現在要做漫遊，其實今天就可以做，所有的data都有，你使用到哪一間的網路，使用多少、使用幾分鐘、拆帳怎麼拆，其實你們三間電信公司完全沒問題，所以剛才NCC在說這個災防法才有辦法解決，現在有些部分是窒礙難行。主席，我是建議邀請內政部，我們來開一個聯席會審查並促成啦！其實現在就可以做了，他們「蠻皮」，大家都在相互推責，沒人要承擔責任嘛！為何現在要拆帳不能拆？只要有一個災害緊急應變的命令下來，其實事後中華電信跟其他的電信公司拆帳……我跟你們說，四間電信公司還沒出來，我就在做電信了，所以我跟你們說基地臺，你們說沒電，我請問你，幾年沒檢查基地臺裡面的電池了？"],["簡董事長志誠：跟委員報告，基地臺的電池是每隔一段時間都會檢查，不是基地臺電池的問題，只是說……"],["謝委員龍介：一段時間可以檢查，你們備用電力可以用多久？你們設定幾小時？來，請NCC回答，你們對於基地臺設置的備用電力是要多少？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：功率型的起碼要能夠蓄電4小時，高抗災的要72小時。"],["謝委員龍介：72小時？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：這是屬於規格比較好的。"],["謝委員龍介：為什麼停電之後，基地臺有的就失靈，有的還有在運作？我就是使用中華電信的，你們剛才在討論費率599、699到799，我覺得奇怪，為何郭國文有信號，我怎麼會沒有？我的是2,699吃到飽，我是你們的VIP，我2,699使用幾年了，你知道嗎？為什麼我到山上會沒電？行動通訊車有在那裡，郭國文不錯，他調兩臺在那裡，我還是沒有信號啊！你們大小眼，看我要去勘災就把我擋起來，是這樣嗎？我還是沒有啊！我還使用現場年輕人的訊號，他接收到行動基地臺的訊號，我才能使用、連結到他的，所以在這裡我要跟你們說就算是漫遊也好，可以去做但不要再推拖了，主席，我覺得這部分再推諉就沒意思。如果是這樣的話，就需要內政部依照災防法下令即時進行跨越別漫遊，在漫遊之後的拆帳、收帳，你們都沒問題！很簡單的！這些東西早就都掌控在你們的手裡了，所以不需要去推卸這個部分嘛！關於災區事宜，我剛才跟你們說開會要做出一個應變機制。西部地區的太陽能設施做這麼多，美麗的大地和母親臺灣讓你們蹂躪成這樣，不然你們也回饋一下。當太陽能設備被掀走，這真的是天災地變的時候，不要忘記8月、9月、10月可能還會有颱風，颱風再來會變成怎樣？","在每一個基地臺的蓄電所，要把電送回去台電的電網時，請問在這個地方可以建立一個臨時的鐵架，有20米、7樓高的備用電塔嗎？其實那是完全沒危害的，這僅是一個結構物而已，董事長，我這樣講的意思是什麼？你聽得懂嗎？之後，所有的電網都斷電、電線桿倒了沒電的時候，但是這個蓄電所、海邊的這些太陽能發電廠是有電的，它的電要輸送去電網也送不回去，坦白說，饋線部分可以輸送回去，但是電線桿部分輸送不進來，台電是不是這樣？"],["許副總經理國隆：是。"],["謝委員龍介：它發電後可以輸送出去，這邊在發電提供給電網，但是這個地方卻沒有電可以使用，請問能把當地蓄電所的電，先不要說給社區使用啦！如果是緊急救災所要用的電，可以直接從蓄電所分出來，在現場做一個緊急的韌性強化嗎？你們時不時都在說韌性，這部分就是可以強化韌性。你們和那些綠友友的太陽能公司，怎麼不能回饋一下嗎？能源署，這樣執行上有問題嗎？"],["翁主任秘書素真：這部分我們會請台電公司針對整個技術上的問題……"],["謝委員龍介：不要再請台電來！技術上有問題嗎？請台電說明。"],["許副總經理國隆：技術上是可行，但是……"],["謝委員龍介：不要說可行啦！但是怎麼樣？但是就是能源署管的啊！NCC要求的啊！數發部跟它要求就好了啊！主席，這是很簡單的事情，但是沒人要去做，這既不會得罪人，也沒有使用它很多的電！你想一下那裡有多少案場，那麼多的案場，100個案場就可以有100個臨時基地臺。我剛才說饋線的部分，中華電信建立1條固網不會花很多錢，因為管路都建置好了，電線也弄好了。董事長，在台電的饋線及管路都建置好的情形下，中華電信配1條光纖固網進去，要花很多錢嗎？"],["簡董事長志誠：不用啦！"],["謝委員龍介：董事長，我這樣說有道理嗎？很清楚的，這樣問題是不是解決了？結果大家都「癢的不抓，痛的抓到破皮」，很可惜啊！國家用這麼多資源培養這麼多公務人員，大家都不敢講真話，都要配合說沒錢了！預算刪了沒錢可做了！聽到這個心很痛啦！災民在那裡很難過，你聽懂嗎？你看災區的人，不要說人家在表演，該救就救，這是你們可以做的。你要瞭解，災民在那裡是沒水、沒電的，最主要的是他沒有訊號、消息，這是最惶恐的，內心的惶恐會由此而來。如果今天的網路、訊號可以對外聯絡，他就不會害怕了，內心也不會怕了，關鍵在這裡啦！所以我建議跨部會也好、NCC也好、數發部也好、台電也好或者能源署，剛才說的這個問題其實是未雨綢繆、毋臨渴掘井，人家說「好天著積雨來糧」，你看他們賺千、賺萬，一個案場賺好幾百億！要求它在那邊蓋一個基地臺，一支鐵塔搭起來，建立一支20米的鐵塔以備不時之需，假使整個基地臺都毀壞了，還可以臨時建置，因為當地有電源、有固網、有饋線。董事長，我說的這些有沒有道理？"],["簡董事長志誠：有啦，如果有電，當然基地臺就能運作。"],["謝委員龍介：電的問題我替你解決了嘛！好不好？感謝你。"],["主席：謝謝謝龍介委員的質詢。他剛剛提出的一些解決之道其實是可以做的，你們不要發現問題都不解決，委員都已經提出來把它納入未雨綢繆及整體規劃，因為極端氣候真的需要大家認真地協助，好不好？","接下來請翁曉玲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":358,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-19","speakers":["林國成","李昆澤","廖先翔","蔡其昌","許智傑","林俊憲","洪孟楷","陳素月","魯明哲","陳雪生","黃健豪","蔡易餘","邱若華","李坤城","謝龍介","翁曉玲","徐富癸","葉元之","張啓楷","陳冠廷","何欣純","游顥"],"page_start":287,"meetingDate":["2025-08-04"],"gazette_id":"1147001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147001_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、中華電信股份有限公司董事長、行政\n院災害防救辦公室、經濟部及台灣電力股份有限公司率所屬相關單位列席就「丹娜絲風災通訊中\n斷及復原過程與檢討及我國災後通訊搶救機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1147001_00011"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}