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你們災防辦是一個長設機構嘛對不對是 我們災防辦是長住人員所以對於防災應該要更積極啦我今天看到行政院卓榮泰院長他去南部啊然後他說他很高興的宣布說我們現在的前進指揮所要變加速指揮所因為完成了第一個就是屋頂復原啊然後也受理了很多戶的申請要去媒合一些營造廠"},{"start":48.53,"end":60.114,"text":"加速指揮所我想問一下我們這個前進指揮所是什麼時候設立的前進指揮所設立的一個我們那個風災是什麼時候7月5我們從7月6號7月6號嘛那請問一下前進指揮所什麼時候設立"},{"start":70.24,"end":77.205,"text":"前進指揮所是在7月30號重建的那栽房的前進指揮所是什麼時候設立 有嗎 有這個前進指揮所嗎"},{"start":88.155,"end":92.677,"text":"如果是應變應變的指揮其實在各地方我說前進指揮所前進有沒有沒有設立 並沒有設立現在那個災害那麼嚴重你們連前進指揮所都沒有設立"},{"start":110.316,"end":137.763,"text":"這個在我聽起來是非常匪夷所思耶以前我們在地方政府服務的時候那時候烏來也遇到颱風那時候幾乎那個烏來山上有快被滅村那時候馬上就成立前進指揮所在前進指揮所裡面有指揮官指揮官可以立刻了解當地的需求調度相關的資源來協助救災就我們現在連前進指揮所都沒有設立然後等了二十幾天才設立復原的指揮所"},{"start":139.229,"end":144.943,"text":"那大家都在忙什麼啊你們那時候7月5號、7月6號都在忙什麼啊連前進指揮所都沒有設立"},{"start":146.215,"end":173.453,"text":"向委員報告你們都在忙什麼向委員報告因為這一次颱風如各位所知道的它是一個非常特殊的一個颱風它在房屋的損毀的一個部分事實上是各區都有所以當前進指揮所在設立比如說台南是在很多個區那我再請問一下所以你們災防辦有沒有第一時間就掌握災情狀況有沒有"},{"start":174.561,"end":203.465,"text":"我們對於災害在中央災害應變中心每天早上九點你們立刻都有了解到所有的災情然後跟當地的需求都有了解都有了解 都有掌握好 那我現在請那個NCC好不好請NCC沒有沒有主任請留步那個主委請問一下您是什麼時候知道說當地通訊全斷然後需要來做災害的協助的"},{"start":204.111,"end":232.33,"text":"其實第一時間就知道了那為什麼通訊可以到二三十天都一直沒有辦法恢復呢因為很多記憶台是它記憶台不好運作大概三個原因第一個記憶台本身被摧毀第二個記憶台本身沒電對 這個我們都聽很多啦我看了很多新聞都是NCC之前發的一些內宣的新聞都說NCC攜手什麼幾大電信公司哇 打造幾十部這個有越野功能的行動基地台哇 這種新聞我常常在看"},{"start":233.595,"end":249.35,"text":"那你們NCC這邊你們報告自己寫的喔3月28號就舉辦114年度的通訊傳播災害防救演練訓練這是你們講的嘛對不對對請問一下你這個演練在現在真正災害發生的時候有發揮作用嗎有啊其實這是有什麼樣的作用"},{"start":249.73,"end":269.435,"text":"就最簡單最簡單例子就是調派行動記憶台然後以後對可問題就是問題你說你做一大堆人家就是沒有通訊嘛然後你一直告訴大家說你打造了很多越野功能的行動記憶台但是當地就是沒有通訊嘛你有演練你有打造可是人家就是沒有通訊那問題出在哪裡"},{"start":270.595,"end":290.763,"text":"關鍵就是規模太大了因為規模太大所以不是你的問題不是所以你們都不曉得說現在極端氣候可能會遇到強降雨可能會那個風災雨災可能會比以前更大你們都沒有想到這一點所以你現在的演練是針對什麼時候幾十年前的氣候來演練嗎還是怎樣"},{"start":292.063,"end":318.687,"text":"我們是針對過往的經驗過往經驗嘛所以你們都沒有預測到極端氣候狀況你的演練是針對過往的那所以只要一旦遇到超出預期的風災雨災你就束手無策了不是束手無策是因為投入所有資源現在大家人民憤怒的地方就在這邊嘛第一個動作慢嘛第二就是我們都是針對過往啊我們不曉得這次這麼嚴重啊不能怪我們啊"},{"start":319.147,"end":344.657,"text":"沒有 月子其實第一時間就已經投入救災投入復原那就是不夠啊那就是不夠啊你有做五分跟你有做二十分跟有做六十分跟有做一百分就是不一樣如果說你現在還是用這種態度我相信之後我們還是會遇到一樣的問題你應該是先去了解問題嘛問題是出在哪裡然後你才能夠提出解決的方式嘛"},{"start":345.037,"end":352.731,"text":"有 我們會甚至檢討會加強業者的一些救災的一些能量怎麼增加是業者嗎 還是"},{"start":355.326,"end":380.503,"text":"業者跟政府機關其實都一樣因為你們之前發的新聞稿都是以你們為主體啊都是說NCC攜手電信公司推動啊在宣傳的時候你們就是主體然後現在遇到問題的時候我們會叫業者做感覺你又推到二線了NCC扛起責任好不好因為你看幾十天人家家裡面沒有通訊是多麼痛苦一件事情啊讓你一天沒有手機你受得了嗎人家幾十天都沒有手機欸沒有通訊欸"},{"start":381.663,"end":394.095,"text":"這個我們會持續來改善這部分那未來的這個負災的能量的一些增強增進我們這邊已經在持續跟相關部會來合作努力好 謝謝好 謝謝葉委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":971,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（13時17分）請災防辦主任，謝謝。"],["主席：請災防辦王主任。"],["葉委員元之：主任好，你們災防辦是一個常設機構，對不對？"],["王主任怡文：是，我們災防辦是……"],["葉委員元之：有常駐人員，所以對於防災應該要更積極啦！我今天看到行政院卓榮泰院長去南部，然後他很高興的宣布，我們現在的前進指揮所要變成加速指揮所，因為完成了第一個就是屋頂復原，然後也受理了很多戶的申請，要去媒合一些營造廠，我想請問一下這個前進指揮所是什麼時候設立的？"],["王主任怡文：前進指揮所設立的一個……"],["葉委員元之：我們的風災是什麼時候？"],["王主任怡文：我們從7月6號……"],["葉委員元之：7月6號，請問一下前進指揮所什麼時候設立的？"],["王主任怡文：前進指揮所是在7月……呃，我找一下時間。"],["葉委員元之：7月30號，是嗎？"],["王主任怡文：30號，對。"],["葉委員元之：7月30號嘛！"],["王主任怡文：對。"],["葉委員元之：7月6號……"],["王主任怡文：它是重建的……"],["葉委員元之：那好，那災防的前進指揮所是什麼時候設立的？有嗎？有這個前進指揮所嗎？"],["王主任怡文：如果是應變……"],["葉委員元之：什麼時候設立的？"],["王主任怡文：應變的指揮其實在各地方政府……"],["葉委員元之：沒有，我說前進指揮所。"],["王主任怡文：前進的……"],["葉委員元之：對，前進的，有沒有？沒有設立？"],["王主任怡文：呃，當時並沒有設立。"],["葉委員元之：欸！現在那個災害那麼嚴重，你們連前進指揮所都沒有設立，這個在我聽起來是非常匪夷所思欸！以前我們在地方政府服務的時候，那時候烏來也遇到颱風，那時候烏來山上幾乎快被滅村，那時候馬上就成立前進指揮所，在前進指揮所裡面有指揮官，指揮官可以立刻了解當地的需求，調度相關的資源來協助救災，結果我們現在連前進指揮所都沒有設立，然後等了二十幾天才設立復原的指揮所，那大家都在忙什麼？你們那時候7月5號、7月6號都在忙什麼，連前進指揮所都沒有設立？"],["王主任怡文：跟委員報告，因為這一次颱風如各位所知道的，它是非常特殊的一個颱風，在房屋損毀的部分事實上是各區都有。所以前進指揮所設立，比如臺南，是在很多個區進行……"],["葉委員元之：好，那我再請問一下……"],["王主任怡文：都有區級的……"],["葉委員元之：所以你們災防辦有沒有在第一時間就掌握災情狀況，有沒有？"],["王主任怡文：我們對於災害，在中央災害應變中心每天早上9點都有……"],["葉委員元之：你們立刻都有了解到所有的災情，跟當地的需求，都有了解？"],["王主任怡文：是。"],["葉委員元之：都有了解、都有掌握？那我現在請NCC，好不好？主任，請你留步。","主委，請問一下，您是什麼時候知道當地通訊全斷，需要災害協助？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：其實第一時間就知道。"],["葉委員元之：第一時間就知道了，為什麼通訊可以到二、三十天都一直沒有辦法恢復呢？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：因為很多基地台它……基地台沒有運作大概有三個原因，第一個，基地台本身被摧壞；第二個，基地台本身沒電。"],["葉委員元之：主委，這個我們都聽很多了，我看了很多新聞都是NCC之前發的一些內宣的新聞，都說NCC攜手什麼幾大電信公司，打造幾十部有越野功能的行動基地台，這種新聞我常常在看。NCC這邊，你們報告中自己寫的，3月28號就舉辦114年度通訊傳播災害防救演練訓練，這是你們講的，對不對？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，我們……"],["葉委員元之：請問一下你這個演練，在現在真正災害發生的時候有發揮作用嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：有啊！其實……"],["葉委員元之：有怎麼樣的作用？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：最簡單的例子就是調派行動基地台，然後……"],["葉委員元之：問題是你說你做了一大堆，人家就是沒有通訊嘛！然後你一直告訴大家說，你打造了很多有越野功能的行動基地台，但當地就是沒有通訊。你有演練、你有打造，可是人家就是沒有通訊，那問題出在哪裡？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：關鍵就是這次規模太大了，我們的業者……"],["葉委員元之：是因為規模太大，所以不是你的問題？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：不是，是受災幅員太大。"],["葉委員元之：所以你們都不曉得現在極端氣候可能會遇到強降雨，風災、雨災可能會比以前更大，你們都沒有想到這一點？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：有，但是……"],["葉委員元之：所以你現在的演練是針對什麼時候、幾十年前的氣候來演練嗎？還是怎樣？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們是針對過往的經驗，就是憑……"],["葉委員元之：就是過往的經驗嘛！你們都沒有預測到極端氣候狀況，演練是針對過往的，所以一旦遇到超出預期的風災、雨災，你就束手無策了？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：不是束手無策……"],["葉委員元之：對啊！現在……"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是業者投入所有的資源，結果還是這樣子。"],["葉委員元之：我跟你講，主委，現在人民憤怒的地方就在這邊，第一個，動作慢；第二就是說：我們都是針對過往、我們不曉得這次這麼嚴重，不能怪我們啊！"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：沒有，業者其實第一時間就已經投入救災、投入復原。"],["葉委員元之：那就是不夠啊！"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對啊！但是他們資源都投入了。"],["葉委員元之：那就是不夠啊！你有做5分跟你有做20分，跟有做60分、100分就是不一樣。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：不是，跟委員報告……"],["葉委員元之：如果你現在還是用這種態度，我相信之後我們還是會遇到一樣的問題。你應該先去了解問題，看問題是出在哪裡，然後你才能夠提出解決的方式。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：有，我們會深自檢討，也會加強業者救災的一些能量。"],["葉委員元之：怎麼增加？是業者嗎？還是……"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：業者跟政府機關其實都要。"],["葉委員元之：因為你們之前發的新聞稿，都是以你們為主體，都是說NCC攜手電信公司推動啊！在宣傳的時候你們就是主體，然後現在遇到問題的時候說：我們會叫業者做。感覺你又退到二線了。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：不是，所以……"],["葉委員元之：NCC扛起責任，好不好？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：會，我們會扛起責任。"],["葉委員元之：因為你看幾十天了，人家的家裡面沒有通訊是多麼痛苦的一件事情。讓你一天沒有手機，你受得了嗎？人家幾十天都沒有手機的通訊耶！"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們會持續改善這部分，未來復災能量的一些增強、增進，我們這邊已經在持續跟相關部會來合作努力。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員的質詢。","游顥委員、游顥委員、游顥委員不在。","現在請張啓楷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":358,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-19","speakers":["林國成","李昆澤","廖先翔","蔡其昌","許智傑","林俊憲","洪孟楷","陳素月","魯明哲","陳雪生","黃健豪","蔡易餘","邱若華","李坤城","謝龍介","翁曉玲","徐富癸","葉元之","張啓楷","陳冠廷","何欣純","游顥"],"page_start":287,"meetingDate":["2025-08-04"],"gazette_id":"1147001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147001_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、中華電信股份有限公司董事長、行政\n院災害防救辦公室、經濟部及台灣電力股份有限公司率所屬相關單位列席就「丹娜絲風災通訊中\n斷及復原過程與檢討及我國災後通訊搶救機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1147001_00011"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}